========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 23:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: talks to walk by In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20070630082729.02ea0f70@mail.theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything 'artificial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when I walk I relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal chat, voices, etc. in my skull. "Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, is a contradiction of terms, night or day. But, when I walk, once I put my attention to it, I find it rich and diverse in sounds. Conversations, jackhammers, airplanes overhead, cell phones, traffic, etc., etc. The closer I listen, it gets down to a syllable, vowel, diphthong level. The various volumes, rhythms - the mix of spiked and flat sounds - take on a music of sorts. Which, in turn, informs the motion and attention of the walk. Which is not to negate at all the experience of listening to great music to either enhance the way of looking at and being with space, or providing the means to get through a real difficult one. In California, for example, driving Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin Valley between from where the Grapevine meets the Valley and, probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this stretch can really do you in without 'enhancers.' Anyway, as a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the first 15 to 30 minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds it brings across 'the windshield.' Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:39:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: JUST YOU WAIT YOUNG LADY WHAT WERE YOU THINKING OF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (figlets are ascii fonts that go back to the text-only days of the net; the following and other works are created by modifying the fonts them- selves before using the figlet program) JUST YOU WAIT YOUNG LADY WHAT WERE YOU THINKING OF JUST v (JUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY T YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY IT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOU WAITYOUNG LADY AIT U WAIT NOWYOUNG LADY h YOU WAITNOW USTJUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY ) UST) YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY OW YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOUNG LADYYOU WAITYOUNG LADY NOWJUST YOUNG LADY YOU WAITYOUNG LADY U WAITWAIT NOWYOUNG LADY JUST (JUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAITUSTJUST, YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY IT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAIT NOWJUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY JUST YOUNG LADYYOU WAIT WAITYOU WAITNOWYOU WAIT AIT JUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUST , JUSTJUSTJUST vv (JUST) YOUNG LADY OU WAITYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY OU WAIT (JUST) YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTJUSTJUSTYOUNG LADY OWJUSTJUST JUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYNOWOU WAIT (JUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYYOU WAITOWJUSTJUSTJUSTYOU WAIT , JUSTJUST v YOU WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT NOW # YOUNG LADYJUSTJUSTJUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY NOW YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAITW T JUST (JUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAIT , JUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY TYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY JUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY USTJUSTYOUNG LADY ) YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAIT NOWJUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYNOWYOUNG LADY OU WAITOWJUSTYOU WAIT T JUST X (JUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAITUSTJUST , JUSTJUST H YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY IT (JUST)TYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT NOW OU WAITNOWJUSTNOWYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY TJUST USTJUSTYOU WAIT WYOU WAITUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAIT NOWJUSTYOU WAIT IT YOUNG LADY TYOU WAITJUSTYOU WAITSTJUSTJUSTYOU WAIT U WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT JUSTYOU WA YOU WAITUSTYOU WAIT JUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUST, JUST (JUST) YOUNG LADY OU WAITYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTJUSTJUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYT NOW YOU WAIT JUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYNOWUST YOUNG LADYYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY U WAIT (JUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYYOU WAITOWJUSTYOU WAITNOWYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYYOU WAIT STYOU WAITOU WAITITNOWYOU WAIT , JUST YOU WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT NOW YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAIT T ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:18:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: On behalf of David B. Chirot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry to take so long to respond to this thread and if hyou hav= Murat,=0A=0ASorry to take so long to respond to this thread and if hyou hav= e moved on, no worries. I was reading "Sticks and Stones," the George Bower= ing book of poems and, specifically the intro by Robert Creeley and was rem= inded of why WCW resonates so deeply with me.(At least one of the reasons.)= =0A=0ACreeley says:=0A=0A "The words will become a world, sustaining the= occasion of thought...This is not...to find an escape from what problems m= ay exist in all senses...But in the care with words, a world occurs, made p= ossible by that care. Williams writes: 'If the language is distorted, crime= flourishes. It is well that in the unobstructed arts (because they can at = favorable times escape the perversions which flourish elsewhere) a means is= at least presented to the mind where a man can go on living.'"=0A=0AAnd Ja= mes Breslin, expounding on WCW's poetics said: =0A=0A "mental=0Aactivity= in most people is conducted primarily at the level of ordinary=0Aconscious= ness or the ego. The distinctive feature of such life is its tendency=0Atow= ard a rigid conservatism, a fear of new experience, and a desire to operate= =0Asafely and fixedly within established categories. Locked within a system= , cut=0Aoff from fresh experience by the desire for security, the ordinary = man will be=0Aemotionally and sensually starved; in a real sense, he will n= ot even=0Aexist=85Ironically then, the person who seeks security uproots hi= mself from the=0Apresent moment, the only thing that IS, and so he becomes = a perpetual drifter. Because he is impoverished, his=0Aactivity will be in= cessant; but because he is dissociated from the sources of=0Alife, his rest= less activity will be futile=85his fear of the new, thwarting the=0Acreativ= e process of renewal, is self-destructive=94 =0ASo I disagree that words a= re subservient. Everything starts with the word. Or as Blake said:=0A=0A"Po= etry fettered, fetters the human race. Nations are=0Adestroyed or flourish = in proportion as their poetry, painting, and=0Amusic are destroyed or flour= ish."=0A=0A=0APaul=0A=0APaul E. Nelson =0Awww.GlobalVoicesRadio.org =0Awww.= SPLAB.org =0A908 I. St. N.E. #4 =0ASlaughter, WA 98002 =0A253.735.6328 or 8= 88.735.6328=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Murat Nemet-Nejat =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Monday, June 25,= 2007 3:36:50 PM=0ASubject: Re: On behalf of David B. Chirot=0A=0AVernon, P= aul, Stephen,=0A=0AI think it is important for American poets to realize th= at words (and=0Atherefore poets) in this culture have a subservient place a= nd find=0Astrategies of transforming this "weakness" into strength. In the = pursuit of=0Asuch transformation many things will fall into place. In our c= ulture=0Ainformation, either intelligent or stupid or profound or banal, is= =0Acommunicated through visual, words basically acting as "accents." Accent= =0Ameans a variety of things: one the one hand, we have accent as interior= =0Adesigners use it, as a "supporting" color. For instance, Bush in pilot= =0Auniform, "mission accomplished" as a back drop. On the other hand, one h= as=0Aaccent as a distortion, something not quite heard correctly, something= =0Asubversive despite itself. One can go here again to Bush, to his "bring= it=0Aon," a drug addled madness which must have stunned every one who hear= d it=0A(something similar to Paris Hilton's, "seen" rather than heard screa= m in the=0Acar). Accent in this sense is something very unstable, beyond co= ntrol.=0A=0A"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" and "bring it on" are purely linguistica= lly very=0Asimple phrases. What gives them their awesome power (and their p= otential=0Aability to turn against their users) is the space within which t= hey occur. I=0Athink American poets should gain (or regain) the ability to = place language=0Ain space, to see language in a potent (unstable, white) em= ptiness=0Asurrounding it. Of course, such a step will require not seeing la= nguage=0Abeing completely sui generis -instead of thinking of the sea of la= nguage in=0Awhich we move (and surely we do that), but the space (the elsew= here, the=0AMartian or global) from which language arrives.=0A=0ACiao,=0A= =0AMurat=0A=0AOn 6/25/07, Vernon Frazer wrote:=0A>= =0A> Murat=0A>=0A> I don't know that "marginalized" is the correct word in = this situation. I=0A> don't see how people composing the vast majority can= be "marginalized."=0A> I'd=0A> say that the masses have assimilated a myop= ic view of what constitutes=0A> culture and that this view has reduced the = notion of culture to the top=0A> best=0A> sellers in books, music and movie= s, and to the celebrity subculture of=0A> Paris=0A> Hilton et al. The major= ity of people haven't so much "marginalized"=0A> themselves as limited them= selves to the "marginal perception" of culture=0A> that we now call the mai= nstream. Unfortunately, their practice of putting=0A> horse blinders on the= ir cognitive horizons has left most artists who work=0A> outside of "the be= st-seller is best" culture marginalized to such an=0A> extent=0A> that it's= almost impossible to find means of publication that will reach=0A> an=0A> = audience larger than a small living room could contain.=0A>=0A> Vernon=0A>= =0A>=0A>=0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: UB Poetics discussion gro= up [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On=0A> Behalf Of Murat Nemet-Nejat= =0A> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:35 AM=0A> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.E= DU=0A> Subject: Re: On behalf of David B. Chirot=0A>=0A> Paul,=0A>=0A> "but= in truth, I think average folks have marginalized themselves with=0A> popu= lar culture": on the very literal sense what does that mean?=0A>=0A> Murat= =0A>=0A> On 6/24/07, Paul Nelson wrote:=0A> >=0A> > Th= anks for forwarding this article David. The perspective is similar to=0A> >= the argument of Dana Gioia, Ted Koozer and those folks who feel that=0A> p= oetry=0A> > has become too highbrow, but in truth, I think average folks ha= ve=0A> > marginalized themselves with popular culture and it is only a frac= tion=0A> of=0A> > those U.S. Americans who are not so interested in FOX/CNN= /Paris Hilton,=0A> > etc. who begin to have any interest in poetry nowadays= . Before 1950=0A> there=0A> > was no TV to speak of.=0A> >=0A> > Of course = the USA is far and away the most pitched-to nation on earth,=0A> so=0A> > t= hat combined with the boob tube tends to retard the possibilities for a=0A>= > more intelligent use of language.=0A> >=0A> > Paul=0A> >=0A> > Paul E. N= elson=0A> > www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org=0A> > www.SPLAB.org=0A> > 908 I. St. = N.E. #4=0A> > Slaughter, WA 98002=0A> > 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328=0A> >= =0A> > ----- Original Message ----=0A> > From: Poetics List =0A> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> > Sent: Sunday, June 2= 4, 2007 1:12:20 PM=0A> > Subject: On behalf of David B. Chirot=0A> >=0A> > = ---------- Forwarded message ----------=0A> > From: davidbchirot@hotmail.co= m=0A> > To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu=0A> > Date:=0A> > Subject: NYTimes= .com: The Ordinary Reader=0A> > This page was sent to you by: davidbchirot@= hotmail.com.=0A> >=0A> > BOOKS / SUNDAY BOOK REVIEW | June 24, 2007=0A> > T= he Ordinary Reader=0A> > By TOM SLEIGH=0A> > Recalling the time when Americ= ans learned and recited poetry together.=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A>=0A> http://w= ww.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/books/review/Sleigh-t.html?ex=3D1183348800&e=0A> = n=3D5b713728b0b03fc4&ei=3D5070&emc=3Deta1=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A>= >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > ------------------------------------------------------= ----=0A> >=0A> > ABOUT THIS E-MAIL=0A> > This e-mail was sent to you by a f= riend through NYTimes.com's E-mail=0A> > This Article service. For general= information about NYTimes.com,=0A> > write to help@nytimes.com.=0A> >=0A> = > NYTimes.com 500 Seventh Avenue New York, NY 10018=0A> >=0A> > Copyright 2= 007 The New York Times Company=0A> >=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 23:50:40 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cralan kelder Subject: Now Online! ~ Origin, Sixth Series, Final Issue In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070630134713.05561830@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Happy Birthday Cid Corman, 29th June ~ Origin, Sixth Series, Issue 4, Spring 2007, Final Issue ~ Now Online! http://www.LonghousePoetry.com/origin.html Please visit the above webpage for information & to download the PDF file format (Best viewed with Adobe Reader 7 ~ 5.7 MB ~ three color text, art and photographs with 504 pages ! ) Already online Origin, Sixth Series, Issue 1 (March 12, 2007), Issue 2 (April 15, 2007), and Issue 3 (May 20, 2007) Share this notice ~ and with our thanks! ------------------- Poetry & More! available at Bob & Susan Arnold Longhouse, Publishers & Booksellers 1604 River Road Guilford, Vermont 05301 our web-site: http://www.LonghousePoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 11:53:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Halle Subject: Seven Corners updates, etc. Comments: To: brandihoman@hotmail.com, eeelalala@hotmail.com, Adam Fieled , Andrew Lundwall , Anne Waldman , Becky Hilliker , "Biddinger, Mary" , Bill Garvey , Bob Archambeau , "Bowen, Kristy" , chard deNiord , Cheryl Keeler , Chris Goodrich , Craig Halle , Dan Pedersen , DAVID PAVELICH , Diana Collins , ela kotkowska , "f.lord@snhu.edu" , Garin Cycholl , Garrett Brown , Grant Haughton , Ira Sadoff , James DeFrain , Jay Rubin , Jeffrey Grybash , joel craig , John Matthias , JOHN TIPTON , Judith Vollmer , Jules Gibbs , Julianna McCarthy , "K. R." , Kate Doane , Kristin Prevallet , Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Vitkauskas , "Lea C. Deschenes" , "lesliesysko@hotmail.com" , "Lina R. Vitkauskas" , Malia Hwang-Carlos , Margaret Doane , Marie U , Mark Tardi , MartinD , Michael OLeary , Michael Waters , "Odelius, Kristy L." , "pba1@surewest.net" , Peter Sommers , Randolph Healy , Ross Gay , Simone Muench , Timothy Yu , Truth Thomas , "White, Jackie" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Please check out poems by Simon DeDeo, Tony Trigilio and Michael Antonuccion Seven Corners ( www.sevencornerspoetry.blogspot.com). Also, some recent posts on Fluid / Exchange (stevehalle.blogspot.com): Reviews: Adam Fieled's Posit chap, Battles's Mirrored, Peter O'Toole in "Venus", also thoughts on Forest Whitaker, Charlie Parker, Lennie Tristano. Lastly, if you are in Chicago on Friday, I'm reading in the PFS Presents traveling series with Adam Fieled, Andrew Lundwall and Simone Muench at Kate the Great's Books in Chicago (5550 N. Broadway). It starts at 7:30 pm. Cheers, Steve Halle Editor, Seven Corners ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:00:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: talks to walk by In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm with you there, Stephen. I love the song of the city, and when Lynda and I travel by car we've long been used to having the radio off (the habit began back in the days of broken windows and stolen radios, etc.). So we hear the sound of the car rushing through air, the whine of tires, varying with the road surfaces, etc., even on those long, same-old stretches. Hal, also a music lover "Can't stop the dancing chicken." Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything > 'artificial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when > I walk I > relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal chat, > voices, etc. in my skull. > "Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, is a contradiction of > terms, > night or day. But, when I walk, once I put my attention to it, I > find it > rich and diverse in sounds. Conversations, jackhammers, airplanes > overhead, > cell phones, traffic, etc., etc. The closer I listen, it gets down > to a > syllable, vowel, diphthong level. The various volumes, rhythms - > the mix of > spiked and flat sounds - take on a music of sorts. Which, in turn, > informs > the motion and attention of the walk. > > Which is not to negate at all the experience of listening to great > music to > either enhance the way of looking at and being with space, or > providing the > means to get through a real difficult one. In California, for example, > driving Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin Valley between from > where the > Grapevine meets the Valley and, probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this > stretch can really do you in without 'enhancers.' > > Anyway, as a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the > first 15 > to 30 minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds it > brings across > 'the windshield.' > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:32:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Grand landscape with vowels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Grand landscape with vowels -- Peter Ciccariello Image - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ Word - http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/ Photography - http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:43:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: mind-mapping Minnesota In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0AAB674F@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tom, It is that whole area. I don't think that the people of Sauk Center were very proud of Sinclair Lewis. But it is often that way. Yes, I grew up in Sauk Rapids, and I know the garden. It was down the street from where we lived--we called it the rock garden and it was created by a man named Louie Wippich. He was still living when I was a child. St. John's has a beautiful wooded area. I used to take my dogs for a walk to the chapel that is reputedly haunted. But Stearns County is a strange part of the country--we used to say that there was a Stearns country syndrome, based on incest among other things. Now I suspect that incest is not uncommon in many rural parts of the country. Whenever I talk about living here it is with a kind of ashamed surprise that I am still here after all these years. mary "Tom W. Lewis" wrote: I knew I was going to miss a region or two -- you're talking about the Highway 10 corridor up through Big Lake to St. Joe's, Collegeville, Charles Lindbergh & Sinclair Lewis country, etc.? forgive me if that's too broad... two points of interest I know of in that neck of the woods are the Gardens of Eternity (? not sure of the name) in Sauk Rapids, which is one of a scant few visionary art environments I know of in Minnesota; and the St. Urho statue in Menahga (part of the "Finnish Triangle") -- http://www.roadsideamerica.com/sights/sightstory.php?tip_AttrId=%3D11468 worth a visit too: the brutalist St. John's Abbey Church (designed by Marcel Breuer) -- http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/St_Johns_Abbey.html as you can see, I relate to the region in terms of pilgrimage sites -- if it was worth writing about in the 1938 WPA guide (or would have been, had the guide been written today), it's usually something I want to check out. tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Mary Kasimor Sent: Sat 6/30/2007 7:24 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Scream Literary Festival - Toronto (July 3 to July 9) Tom, Please don't forget the "heart of the heart of the country" (Stearns County/St. Cloud). Or are we part of the Metro area (almost)? Cuturally, we are almost forgotten. Mary Kasimor "Tom W. Lewis" wrote: here in Minnesota (here for me) the denizens of the Metro area have a binary concept of place : the Cities Outstate* since most announcements on this List refer to events either in NYC or in Buffalo, I assume they're taking place way out yonder there. still, clearer siting of the events would help me to decide just how impossible it will be for me to attend (more's the pity!). tl * to be fair, there are some subdivisions within "Outstate," such as the Range (the Iron Ranges, home of brave miners and Bob Dylan); the North Shore (Lake Superior shore, from Duluth to the Canadian border); the Arrowhead (mostly wild country north and west of the North Shore); an amorphous zone comprising an area centered on Lake Itasca, the source of the Mississippi, including Brainerd, Bemidji -- the Lakeland -- as well as the Red Lake reservation lands and the rich farmland in the northwestern corner of the state; Red River of the North Valley and Lake Agassiz prairielands; the wide, rolling farm country sliding south from Alexandria, along the border with the Dakotas; the Minnesota River Valley (a giant backwards checkmark crossing diagonally through the southern third of the state; and then what I think of as "the toe" of the state, containing Rochester and (guess what?) more farmland. as I write this all out, it strikes me as similar to L. Frank Baum's description of the Land of Oz -- don't ask me where the Winkies of Minnesota live: they went underground years ago, and didn't leave a forwarding address. (Dorothy/Judy Garland/Frances Gumm was from Grand Rapids about 60 miles east of Bemidji, in case anyone wants to go make a house-call.) tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group on behalf of Diane DiPrima Sent: Fri 6/29/2007 1:03 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: The Scream Literary Festival - Toronto (July 3 to July 9) A suggestion: Each of us seems to be absolutely certain that the locale of her/his event is obvious. But it isn't. Maybe with all this cyber-everything it would behoove us to mention what city, village, mountain range, island, nation, or planet we're talking about--somewhere easily findable on the announcements of these awesome events. It ain't "just" the poets. I am on a Buddhist list, and find myself searching, often in vain, for the actual location of the talk, action. Or non-action. Whatever. Just an idea. Diane di Prima > From: Kate Eichhorn > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:33:42 -0400 > To: > Subject: The Scream Literary Festival - Toronto (July 3 to July 9) > > MONDAY JULY 9th - CanStage Amphitheatre, HIGH PARK, 7PM > > For the 15th consecutive year, The Scream takes over High Park for one > glorious night. Twelve performers cast their voices into the sky as darkness > descends. Readings by: Elizabeth Bachinsky, Sean Dixon, Christine Duncan, > Shane Koyczan, Naila Keleta Mae, David McGimpsey, Roy Miki, A.F. Moritz, > Steven Price, Priscila Uppal, Zoe Whittall and Rachel Zolf > > Other highlights of this year's festival... > > **Phosphorescence!:The Launch of Scream 15 > > Tuesday JULY 3rd - Gladstone Hotel Ballroom 1214 Queen St West > > Readers/performers: Dennis Lee, Souvankham Thammavongsa, George Elliott > Clarke and Shapour Shahidi¹s robots > > **Strange Alchemy: The Science and Poetry Panel and Matrix Launch - > Wednesday JULY 4th, Supermarket 268 Augusta Ave > > Expect science and poetry to bond in startling ways during our critical > panel. Moderated by Clive Thompson, panelists Christian Bök, angela > rawlings, Ken Babstock and postdoctoral candidate, Lisa Betts (who > researches the neuroscience of vision) set their giant brains to task on the > emerging transmutations taking place between science and poetry. The > discussion will be followed at 9 pm by the launch of the newest issue of > Montreal¹s Matrix Magazine with readings by the panelists and along with Jim > Johnstone and Karen Solie, all poets who have engaged science in their > poetic practice. > > Complete festival schedule available at www.thescream.ca --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. --------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 04:38:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: JUST YOU WAIT YOUNG LADY WHAT WERE YOU THINKING OF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I collaborated w/ Alan's poem. In a message dated 7/1/2007 2:26:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, sondheim@PANIX.COM writes: JUST YOU warte auf liebe dame eben doch WHAT WERE YOU THINKING OF JUST vertical (JUST lusty LADY YOUNG LADY Tribal YOUNG LADY down in the narrow YOUNG LADY IT lay lady lay YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY try YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY seeds YOUNG LADY vegetable YOUNG LADY verbal NOWJUSTYOU are alone WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT tall shirt YOUNG LADY cousin YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOU WAITYOU nice LADY AIT U WAIT outside NOWYOUNG LADY isn't it humble YOU WAIT NOW trying LUSTJUST for the luck of it YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY ) LUST) feelers YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY tennis YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY feathers LOW YOUNG LADY graze NOWJUSTYOUNG LADYYOU WAITYOUNG LADY order NOWJUST knowing YOUNG LADY YOU WAITYOUNG LADY U WAITWAIT NOWYOUNG LADY tribal JUST inside (JUSTYOUNG LADY textures YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAITUSTJUST, YOUNG LADY fingers YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY IT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY dentures YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY makers YOUNG LADY you pronounce it NOWJUSTYOU WAIT NOWJUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY JUST sit YOUNG LADYYOU WAIT WAITYOU WAITNOWYOU know what you WAIT AIT JUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUST , JUSTJUSTJUST vvaitress (JUST) YOUNG LADY OU WAITYOUNG LADY others in the room YOUNG LADY OU WAIT (JUST) YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTJUSTJUSTYOUNG LADY this now JUSTJUST JUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY cathedral YOUNG LADYNOWOU WAIT (JUSTYOU WAIT once YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYYOU WAITOWJUSTJUSTJUSTYOU WAIT , JUSTJUST commercial veal YOU WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT NOW #4 YOUNG LADYJUSTJUSTJUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG tribal LADY NOW YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAIT with numbers in your pocket Tribal JUST (JUSTYOUNG LADY ticklish YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY jumpsuit YOU WAIT , JUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUST YOUNG LADY visitors YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY TYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY JUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY one long day USTJUSTYOUNG LADY ) YOUNG LADY leather gloves NOWJUSTYOU WAIT NOWJUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY advance NOWYOUNG advance LADY OU WAITOWJUSTYOU WAIT Tendril JUST X (JUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAITUSTJUST , adjust JUST Hard doors YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY IT (JUST)TYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT NOW OU WAITNOWJUSTNOWYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY mannerisms YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY TJUST USTJUSTYOU WAIT WYOU WAITUSTYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY NOWJUSTYOU WAIT NOWJUSTYOU WAIT IT classic YOUNG LADY TYOU WAITJUSTYOU WAITSTJUSTJUSTYOU WAIT U WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT JUSTYOU wash it up YOU situation WAITUSTYOU WAIT JUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUSTJUST, JUST sit (JUST) YOUNG LADY OU WAITYOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY side doors YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY visitors YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTJUSTJUSTY listening OUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYT NOW YOU WAIT JUST YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY lawyers NOWUST YOUNG LADYYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY U WAIT (JUSTYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYYOU dialects WAITOWJUSTYOU washingtonian willows WAITNOWYOU WAIT YOUNG LADY joy YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYYOU WAIT STreet YOU condition WAITOU WAITITNOWYOU WAIT , JUST YOU WAITYOUNG LADYYOU WAIT NOW YOUNG LADY stay where you are YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY liberty YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADY YOUNG LADYJUSTYOU WAIT Tribal ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 08:47:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric unger Subject: on a quiet Sunday morning, a tactical question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Could someone please enlighten me as to the best way to send books/journals through the mail. The rate change scheme courtesy of TimeWarner and AT/T types seems fishy. I sent off some smaller sized packages (6"x8") first class the other day and they ended up costing about $1.81 a piece. Is this normal? Have the rate changes even gone into effect yet? I ask those involved with small press publishing (the good lot of you, I trust) what is the cheapest and most effective way to send books and magazines out? Eric Unger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 11:51:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Model Homes Subject: Canada Day Lil'Norton Double Premier MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline ANNOUNCING THE RELEASE OF TWO PREMIER POETRY PUBLICATIONS from Lil' Norton! All Canada Day orders (July 1st & 2nd) will receive both publications for cost of one. __________________ The Lil' Norton premier of Model Homes (issue 1) is now "yours to discover." Join us in experiencing the better comforts and securities of: Travis Nichols Johanna Drucker Seth Parker Diana Magall=F3n Patrick Lovelace Lesley Yalen Brian Kim Stefans Natalie Lyalin Ted Greenwald Matina Stamatakis Ray Hsu Anne Tardos Jules Boykoff The Prize Budget For Boys Great market rates via Paypal through our website ($5 issue, $15 subscription, shipping included). Please contact us about developing Model Homes in your own community, bookstore, library, or convenience stop. All correspondence welcome. http://modelhomepage.blogspot.com/ & http://myspace.com/modelhomespoetry ________________________ Announcing the premier publication of the The Physical Poets Home Library: a multivolume serial anthology of poetry, edited by YOU! Physical Poets Home Library is an anthology of writing by small groups of friends across North America, self-editing each volume. Since, autonomous editorial oversight is left in the hands of each volume's participant editors (ie.YOU!), no form or genre will be sanctioned. We at lil' Norton only ask that work chosen for each volume should be easily and cheaply reproducible. Volume I: "The Neo-liberal American Poetry" featuring the work of: Marie Buck Brad Flis Lawrence Giffin Steven Zultanski available now for $5 through the website For orders and project inquiries, visit http://physicalpoetry.blogspot.com or send email to PhysPo [at-symbol] gmail [fullstop] com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 13:40:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: on a quiet Sunday morning, a tactical question In-Reply-To: <77e5e8e50707010647w6f25e3audad82e42252677ac@mail.gmail.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Generally, media mail, for which allow a maximum of 2 weeks. Sometimes first class is only a couple of cents more.It's the weight of the package (up to 70 lbs) and not the size that makes the difference (except for oversized packages). Mark At 09:47 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote: >Could someone please enlighten me as to the best way to send >books/journals through the mail. The rate change scheme courtesy of >TimeWarner and AT/T types seems fishy. I sent off some smaller sized >packages (6"x8") first class the other day and they ended up costing >about $1.81 a piece. Is this normal? Have the rate changes even gone >into effect yet? I ask those involved with small press publishing (the >good lot of you, I trust) what is the cheapest and most effective way >to send books and magazines out? > >Eric Unger ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:42:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Red Rover Series / Experiment #13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Red Rover Series {readings that play with reading} Experiment #13: Exquisite Corpse Featuring Another Chicago Magazine http://www.anotherchicagomagazine.org A final HotHouse reading writers from issue #47 (ACM is DEAD) present their eulogies: Elizabeth Bloom Albert Ray Bianchi Stephanie Cleveland Nina Corwin Michael Czyzniejewski Jessi Lee Gaylord Jeb Gleason-Allured Brandi Homan Quraysh Ali Lansana Joshua Marie Wilkinson with funerary musicians Tina M. Howell & the Fellas 6pm Sunday, July 8th $10, includes a copy of ACM #47 at HotHouse 31 E. Balbo Avenue -- Chicago, IL http://www.hothouse.net **special location for this event only** R.I.P HotHouse scheduled to close at the end of July http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=25459 Experiment #13 is sponsored by the Printers' Ball http://www.printersball.org an annual celebration of literature in Chicago presented by the Poetry Foundation ELIZABETH BLOOM ALBERT lives in the Chicago suburb of Highland Park with her husband and three teenaged children. An Algerian Like You, which was a finalist in the 2005 Chicago Literary Awards, is her first published story although she has been making stuff up for 50 years or so. Just ask her mother. RAY BIANCHI is the Publisher of Cracked Slab Books in Chicago. After going to the University of Iowa, he spent most of the 1990s in Brazil and Bolivia. A native of the Chicago suburbs and the child of Italian Immigrants, he has worked in international business since 1996. Ray's first book Circular Descent appeared in 2004 from Blaze Voxx Press and his chapbook American Master Appeared in 2005 from Moria Books. He is the Editor of The City Visible, Chicago Poetry for the New Century from Cracked Slab Books. A new book, The Immediate Empire will be published in Collaboration with Waltraud Haas in 2007. STEPHANIE CLEVELAND grew up in rural Georgia. She currently lives in Harlem. Her poems have appeared in Boston Review, Colorado Review, and are forthcoming in jubilat. Stephanie is a radical feminist. She has worked as an activist for the past four years, challenging men's right to buy sexual access to women and girls in pornography and prostitution. Stephanie earned her BA in Theatre from the University of Georgia in 2002. NINA CORWIN, a Chicago social worker, is the author of one collection of poetry, Conversations With Friendly Demons and Tainted Saints (Puddin'head Press, 1999) and co-editor of Inhabiting the Body: A Collection of Poetry and Art By Women (Moon Journal Press, 2002). She has collaborated with a variety of musicians including the CUBE contemporary chamber ensemble, Serendipity Percussion Ensemble and dancer/choreographer Regina Lavery. Her published work appears in Atlanta, Nimrod Int'l, Poetry East, RATTLE, Spoon River and Southern Poetry Reviews, as well as the anthologies Visiting Frost (University of Iowa Press, 2005) and Poetic Voices Without Borders (Gival Press). She has received awards from the Illinois Arts Council and the Illinois State Poetry Society. MICHAEL CZYZNIEJEWSKI, a Chicago native, lives in Ohio and teaches at Bowling Green State University, where he also serves as Editor-in-Chief of Mid-American Review. His stories have recently appeared or are forthcoming in/or, Redivider, The GSU Review, Post Road, and Pushcart Prize XXXI. His debut collection, The Death of Purple and Other Stories, is due in 2009 from Dzanc Books. Since 1989, he has spent his summers working as a beer vendor in the aisles of Wrigley Field. JESSI LEE GAYLORD is a MFA student at Columbia College. She received her bachelor’s degree from the University of Illinois at Chicago. She currently works in an editorial capacity for one of the boring academic journals at the University of Chicago. Her work has appeared in After Hours, Spoon River Poetry Review, et al. JEB GLEASON-ALLURED is the co-editor of The2ndHand.com. He lives in Chicago. BRANDI HOMAN is the author of Hard Reds, forthcoming from Shearsman Books in 2008. Her chapbook, Two Kinds of Arson, is available from dancing girl press. She earned her MFA at Columbia College Chicago and is editor-in-chief of Switchback Books. QUARAYSH ALI LANSANA is author of three poetry books, including They Shall Run: Harriet Tubman Poems (Third World Press, 2004), a children's book entitled The Big World (Addison-Wesley, 1998), and editor of seven anthologies, including Dream of A Word: The Tia Chucha Press Poetry Anthology (Tia Chucha Press, 2006) and Role Call: A Generational Anthology of Social and Political Black Literature and Art (Third World Press, 2001). He is Director of the Gwendolyn Brooks Center for Black Literature and Creative Writing at Chicago State University, where he is also Assistant Professor of English and Creative Writing. He is also a former faculty member of the Drama Division of The Juilliard School. Quraysh is the former Associate Editor-Poetry for Black Issues Book Review, and sits on the Editorial Board of Tia Chucha Press. Quraysh earned a Masters of Fine Arts degree at the Creative Writing Program at New York University, where he was a Departmental Fellow. JOSHUA MARIE WILKINSON's poems have appeared in New American Writing, The Modern Review, Jubilat, and Colorado Review. He is the author of Suspension of a Secret in Abandoned Rooms, Lug Your Careless Body out of the Careful Dusk, A Ghost as King of the Rabbits, and the Book of Truants & Projectorlight. Forthcoming collections are The Book of Whispering in the Projection Booth and Figures for a Darkroom Voice, written in collaboration with Noah Eli Gordon. He recently moved to Chicago to teach at Loyola University after earning a PhD, and he's at work on a tour film about the band Califone. Coming up Experiment #14: Phases for I, Afterlife with Kristin Prevallet and Elizabeth Schmitz A literary dance collaboration to perform the work of mourning http://www.kayvallet.com 8pm Saturday, July 21st at Lifeline Theatre 6912 N. Glenwood Avenue http://www.lifelinetheatre.com suggested donation $12 Red Rover Series is curated by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin. Founded in 2005, each Red Rover event is designed as a reading experiment with participation by local, national, and international writers, artists, and performers. Email ideas for reading experiments to us at redroverseries@yahoogroups.com The schedule for upcoming events is listed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redroverseries ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 13:49:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: talks to walk by In-Reply-To: <73C4E73B-3E33-47E1-97D0-03632E9F816E@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Likewise. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to listen to music constantly. When a friend got one of the first walkmen I tried it walking through Greenwich Village--once. It was a trip, but who wants to trip all the time? And it cut me off radically from the life around me (which is I guess the purpose--the outside world becomes entertainment), as if it were a movie and the only reality was what came through the earphones. I imagine that sense would have worn off with use, but would I want to create a soundtrack for every experience? There could be an industry here. How about a hike through Darfur? A mosque bombing in Iraq? A US family becoming homeless? A plague? Melting tudra? Call the series "Music To Die With." Humanitarians could even hand out CDs to the victims. And there's the matter of safety. Even the safest of cities has its dangers--best to stay alert in all one's senses. Mark At 11:00 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote: >I'm with you there, Stephen. I love the song of the city, >and when Lynda and I travel by car we've long been >used to having the radio off (the habit began back in >the days of broken windows and stolen radios, etc.). >So we hear the sound of the car rushing through air, >the whine of tires, varying with the road surfaces, etc., >even on those long, same-old stretches. > >Hal, also a music lover > >"Can't stop the dancing chicken." > >Halvard Johnson >================ >halvard@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > >On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > >>Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything >>'artificial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when >>I walk I >>relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal chat, >>voices, etc. in my skull. >>"Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, is a contradiction of >>terms, >>night or day. But, when I walk, once I put my attention to it, I >>find it >>rich and diverse in sounds. Conversations, jackhammers, airplanes >>overhead, >>cell phones, traffic, etc., etc. The closer I listen, it gets down >>to a >>syllable, vowel, diphthong level. The various volumes, rhythms - >>the mix of >>spiked and flat sounds - take on a music of sorts. Which, in turn, >>informs >>the motion and attention of the walk. >> >>Which is not to negate at all the experience of listening to great >>music to >>either enhance the way of looking at and being with space, or >>providing the >>means to get through a real difficult one. In California, for example, >>driving Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin Valley between from >>where the >>Grapevine meets the Valley and, probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this >>stretch can really do you in without 'enhancers.' >> >>Anyway, as a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the >>first 15 >>to 30 minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds it >>brings across >>'the windshield.' >> >>Stephen V >>http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 13:39:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: On behalf of David B. Chirot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > one reasons.) > language is > distorted, crime (of language) flourishes. un/ obstructed > arts can't ever escape perversions > which flourish everywhere and means east represented the mind > where a man can't go on living. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:57:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: A PROBLEM HAS OCCURRED Comments: To: Barrywal23@aol.com, Rianca@aol.com, Elaine Kass , Jonathan Penton , Kirpalg@aol.com, walterblue@EARTHLINK.NET, Rianca@aol.com, litwrks@yahoo.com. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi I have been unable to receive mail all day. Apparently, somebody accessed my computer and has been sending messages to the word from a Mr Cheng, who no doubt wants to offer everybody a fortune and me his undelivered mails (400 & counting so far). If you've tried to reach me, please send the message again. Sorry for the inconvenience. Vernon ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 17:21:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derekrogerson Subject: Re: On behalf of David B. Chirot In-Reply-To: <20070701.142053.1328.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well I was taught one's relationship to art and creatively should always be a natural phenomena and definitely not controlled by any sense of the aesthetic so I agree with Stephen's earlier comment about poetry's bad aim. Mine is a Buddhist approach I think but it mixes well with the Breslin quote Paul gave about the danger of seeking security and perhaps recognizes as aggression what Murat suggests regarding the placement of language or the pursuit of any particular thing, whether it's transformative or not. There's no point in picking the flower. Things don't have to be that complicated. The space within which things occur, our environment, is a natural one with continuity and all-pervasiveness so it's actually a matter of not falling into a comfortable ego-trap of creating separation between you and it, between medium and oneself. Therefore this thorny question of how to penetrate into media or otherwise relate to, control, or manipulate audience or one's access to audiences (as Paul worried about earlier) is achievement oriented in outlook and maybe should always be prefaced with a commodification moniker like the word "professional" so we know the interest is not purely in the arts but rather sensitive to the economies of consumption which could surround it. I find everything is already pre-arranged and completed in that kind of art and it lacks genuineness. It never seems to be able to perceive a blank page or canvas to work with because everything is always done out of necessity. The whole idea there seems to be to turn people's heads which I find a very militant philosophy and which also attracts a militant congregation. Attempts to expand the margins of poetry or any art, at least for me, must include a willingness to be open and let things go; to give up on any efforts to try and impress or excite people or put on a show for them. Any school-of-thought which teaches separation between artist and audience, where messages are sent from one to the other, becomes an exhibition, a competition for the ostentatious and burlesque. I think we as artists can have more confidence and insight than that. So it doesn't start with words or any flash of inspiration or strategy, at least for me, because all those means seek a desired end, but it is rather a simple embodiment of both creator and viewer together as-it-happens in an appreciative sense of an environment of no-categories, inviting expression and expansion because nobody has any roles to play or fear of wrong moves, just plain enjoying the marvelous art like a simple tea ceremony. -- Derek ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 16:21:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: talks to walk by MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I never know whether to laugh with near disbelief or cry with the endlessly= encountered realization how many fellow citizens really are "not here/hear= " and with amazement take a kind of tourism tune-in once in a while to see= and hear some of the conventionalized sites/sights/cites "already written"= (Leonardo Sciasia) or familiar via their ubiquitous mediated representatio= ns--of "the world" or "street" or "walking" . . . "people" . . . "land/city= scapes" . . . (to be fair,though, i have never had a driver's license--= and tried a walkman maybe three times and found it a real drag-i kept wanti= ng to hear the things i saw and touched---and also dangerous--you couldn't = hear things behind or around you--doesn't seem like the greatest idea in th= e world--unless you are always somewhere very safe--etc--) About five ye= ars ago i got on a bus on which there were only three men already seated. = One, a business looking sort--was very importantly very busy on a cell phon= e--another, a heavy set kid in a heavy metal t-shirt--was perofming ar-drum= beats and sining along with his cd player-via-earphones music--and the thi= rd, a thick set short man with eyes fixed unswervingly on a spot in space--= was talking loudly to omone only he could see about the immenent arival of = the end of the world--- I suddenly realized the only person other t= han the bus driver who was actually "here/hear" was myself--listening to an= d watching the gestures and pantomimes of this vocalising trio-- Sin= ce i do most of my art work lierally on and in streets, construction sites,= parks, business ditricts, abandoned industrial areas--using rubBEings and = clay impression spray paintings--it is a further development daily of all t= he range of one's street and out door experiences wheter in the forests of = Vermont or living in the streets of big cities-- There are always= people, machines, animals, birds--or weathers of all timesof the year--pas= sing by--for simple surivival one could never imagine not being aware of th= e sounds around one--or the things emerging which are every found hidden in= plain sites/sights/cites . . . The strange discoveries of the wor= ld i have read about here and started finding out about in other places--st= ruck me as perhaps the latest cycle in a recurrent vogue in American cultur= al history which began roughly in the 1830's--when cemeteries like Mount Au= burn in Cambridge, MA were being built as simulatenously parks filled with = beaitufl gardens, a striking tower-topped hill, statues, monuments, mausole= ums, winding paths, beaitufl epitp[ahs, benches--all forthe contemplation o= f both nature and the Eternal, the taking in of health giving fresh non-cit= y air and the taking in of helahty "good" thouhts regarding mortalisty and = morality. Aesthetics and ethics were combined with the leisurely stroll--a= nd--the cemetery /park was used as a kind of bridge betwen the old city and= the new suburbs. This beautiful place, constructed really for= "walking" and "seeing" and "hearing" (birds, trees inthe wind, conversatio= ns not in a crowd, quiet from th horses, carriages, trams of streets)--and = combing Eternal Rest with Leisrure and Contemplation helthful for body and = soul--began ironically enough becuase there was no more room in Boston ceme= teries for the ever increasing population of the dead--as well as their fel= low citizens above ground growing too numerous for the narrow streted old c= ity. In order to get the quick and the dead moving--what better me= thod than this making of a place combining so many enticing features and so= efficiently taking care of the problems of urban "crowding" above and belo= w ground? I think that these recurrent vogues and re -discoveries = of the world --and the ways they are used for the arts--is something very = interesting--as it seems to recur--every few decades--and i have begun to s= tudy it in terms of changes in the technologies of seeing--and also now of = listening--since the transistor radio appeared in the 1950's--somnething th= at could be carried with one outside of the car-- That a great deal = of the world isn't really visible or heard--and when itis, oftenrecongized = only in the sense that it "looks like" photos of it--or the way it was seen= in a film or on tv--and in turn the use of music and talk radio etc--the u= se of "art" as a "wall" which on the other side has a "life" left behind--t= hat is revisited nostalgically--and has "specimens" and "artefacts" brought= back from it-- In a strange way, the more the availability of ev= er increasingly sophisticated "vision machines" takes over the ways of peop= le's own seeing--the less there is seen --or heard--by themselves--of what = is happening around them--except as something distanced perhaps as in the c= emetery/park into things "aesthetic" and "ethical"--"good for you"--like "w= alking is good for you"-- > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 10:00:28 = -0500> From: halvard@EARTHLINK.NET> Subject: Re: talks to walk by> To: POET= ICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > I'm with you there, Stephen. I love the song of= the city,> and when Lynda and I travel by car we've long been> used to hav= ing the radio off (the habit began back in> the days of broken windows and = stolen radios, etc.).> So we hear the sound of the car rushing through air,= > the whine of tires, varying with the road surfaces, etc.,> even on those = long, same-old stretches.> > Hal, also a music lover> > "Can't stop the dan= cing chicken."> > Halvard Johnson> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D> halvard@earthlink.net> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.= html> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.= com> http://www.hamiltonstone.org> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidal= ocabooks.html> > > On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote:> > > = Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything> > 'artif= icial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when > > I walk I>= > relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal chat,> >= voices, etc. in my skull.> > "Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, i= s a contradiction of > > terms,> > night or day. But, when I walk, once I = put my attention to it, I > > find it> > rich and diverse in sounds. Conve= rsations, jackhammers, airplanes > > overhead,> > cell phones, traffic, et= c., etc. The closer I listen, it gets down > > to a> > syllable, vowel, di= phthong level. The various volumes, rhythms - > > the mix of> > spiked and= flat sounds - take on a music of sorts. Which, in turn, > > informs> > th= e motion and attention of the walk.> >> > Which is not to negate at all the= experience of listening to great > > music to> > either enhance the way o= f looking at and being with space, or > > providing the> > means to get th= rough a real difficult one. In California, for example,> > driving Highway = 5 up or down the San Joaquin Valley between from > > where the> > Grapevin= e meets the Valley and, probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this> > stretch ca= n really do you in without 'enhancers.'> >> > Anyway, as a general rule, I = take a little vow of silence for the > > first 15> > to 30 minutes of any = walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds it > > brings across> > 'the windsh= ield.'> >> > Stephen V> > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i=92m Ini= tiative now. It=92s free.=A0=A0 http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGWL_June07= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:16:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: A PROBLEM HAS OCCURRED MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/1/2007 3:45:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, frazerv@BELLSOUTH.NET writes: Hi I have been unable to receive mail all day. Apparently, somebody accessed my computer and has been sending messages to the word from a Mr Cheng, who no doubt wants to offer everybody a fortune and me his undelivered mails (400 & counting so far). If you've tried to reach me, please send the message again. Sorry for the inconvenience. Vernon Vernon, you're absolutely right! I tried to fwd to you the pitch I got from a certain "Mr. Cheng" to let you know that something was wrong on one of our ends, but that came back not deliverable. Sorry to hear of this computer woe ... AMB ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:41:23 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re: talks to walk by In-Reply-To: A<7.0.1.0.1.20070701134055.05463308@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I really do like to multi-track myself. Well, I'm already multi-tracked--'experience' is being fetishized here--aren't we all? And differently. My wife has music in her mind all the time; her problem is that it is seldom of her choosing. Two of my sons are the same. I never have music going on so I use a walkman (that should be ipod but ...). I walk quite a lot, but usually the same routes. I could probably do them blindfold. Tf anything the music sharpens, or renews, my attention to such overfamiliar scenes by laying over it an exitement not its own but which then becomes its own. Wystan =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Monday, 2 July 2007 5:50 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: talks to walk by Likewise. I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to listen to music constantly. When a friend got one of the first walkmen I tried it walking through Greenwich Village--once. It was a trip, but who wants to trip all the time? And it cut me off radically from the life around me (which is I guess the purpose--the outside world becomes entertainment), as if it were a movie and the only reality was what came through the earphones. I imagine that sense would have worn off with use, but would I want to create a soundtrack for every experience? There could be an industry here. How about a hike through Darfur? A mosque bombing in Iraq? A US family becoming homeless? A plague?=20 Melting tudra? Call the series "Music To Die With." Humanitarians could even hand out CDs to the victims. And there's the matter of safety. Even the safest of cities has its dangers--best to stay alert in all one's senses. Mark At 11:00 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote: >I'm with you there, Stephen. I love the song of the city, and when=20 >Lynda and I travel by car we've long been used to having the radio off=20 >(the habit began back in the days of broken windows and stolen radios,=20 >etc.). >So we hear the sound of the car rushing through air, the whine of=20 >tires, varying with the road surfaces, etc., even on those long,=20 >same-old stretches. > >Hal, also a music lover > >"Can't stop the dancing chicken." > >Halvard Johnson >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >halvard@earthlink.net >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >http://www.hamiltonstone.org >http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > >On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > >>Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything=20 >>'artificial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when I=20 >>walk I relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal >>chat, voices, etc. in my skull. >>"Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, is a contradiction of=20 >>terms, night or day. But, when I walk, once I put my attention to it,=20 >>I find it rich and diverse in sounds. Conversations, jackhammers,=20 >>airplanes overhead, cell phones, traffic, etc., etc. The closer I=20 >>listen, it gets down to a syllable, vowel, diphthong level. The=20 >>various volumes, rhythms - the mix of spiked and flat sounds - take on >>a music of sorts. Which, in turn, informs the motion and attention of=20 >>the walk. >> >>Which is not to negate at all the experience of listening to great=20 >>music to either enhance the way of looking at and being with space, or >>providing the means to get through a real difficult one. In=20 >>California, for example, driving Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin=20 >>Valley between from where the Grapevine meets the Valley and,=20 >>probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this stretch can really do you in=20 >>without 'enhancers.' >> >>Anyway, as a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the=20 >>first 15 to 30 minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds=20 >>it brings across 'the windshield.' >> >>Stephen V >>http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 21:35:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Post Card Poems MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Dear Friend-o-SUNY, While another E-Fishwrapper grows in the dark belly of the SPokenword LAB, (now at its secret Slaughter location) Lana Ayers and I have cooked up what we think is a delightful poetry exercise for August. Not completely original, as August has been 3:15 Experiment time for many years, and many others have done post card poetry. We also have not figured out a catchy name, so we look to you for that and for your daily participation in August. Well, here it is in Lana's words: "The August Postcard Poetry Fest." Would you like to get lots of cool postcards with original poems mailed to you in the dog days of August? To get 'em, you have to send 'em. Here's how it works: You sign up by email, providing your name and postal address to splabman@yahoo.com. The first 31 poets to respond are in. Then you receive a list by email of names and addresses. Go out to your local bookstore or thrift shop and pick up some cool postcards to send. On July 27th, you'll mail out postcards with original poems of your own to the first 3 people on your list. As soon as you receive a postcard from someone else, write a new short poem, perhaps incorporating something from that postcard, and send your new poem to the next person on your mailing list on August 1 and continue each August day. For every postcard you receive, you'll write and send a new short poem on a postcard. Sure, continue the conversation you've been having to the next person, even if they have not been in on it. We'll settle it all in the Fall. By the end of August, you'll have a whole collection of limited edition postcard poems by all the poets on the list. Maybe we'll gather in September to read the best of these, so try to keep Saturday the 22nd free for a Seattle-area event. If you do sign up, please be committed to the process, so everyone gets a poem for every day. Thanks for your interest. Paul Paul E. Nelson www.GlobalVoicesRadio.org www.SPLAB.org Slaughter, WA 98002 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 05:40:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: "Sublime Spaces" Wisconsin Outsider Artist's Environments Show MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for an article about the "Sublime Spaces" exhibit of Wisconsin Outsider Art= itss' Environments Show with link to a Video--http://www.jsonline.com/story= /index.aspx?id=3D626063> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 05:16:05 -0500> From: > To: = davidbchirot@hotmail.com> Subject: "Sublime Spaces" Wisconsin Outsider Art= ist's Environments Show> > To: davidbchirot@hotmail.com> From: (david chir= ot)> Subject: "Sublime Spaces" Wisconsin Outsider Artist's Environments Sh= ow> > This story was sent from JSOnline.com: http://www.jsonline.com.> It w= as sent by (david chirot) on 7/2/2007 5:09:31 AM> ------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------> > > > http://www.jsonl= ine.com/story/index.aspx?id=3D626063> > >=20 _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i=92m Ini= tiative now. It=92s free.=A0=A0 http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGWL_June07= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:36:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lisa Jarnot Subject: listenlight magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed hey list folks, a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this one. best, lisa jarnot ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:59:10 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <95A253F2-516B-46B5-BC97-65883322D2B2@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I have to say that this surprises me, because I've had some work published in listenlight, and while the editor did suggest some edits, the final decision was left up to me. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net On 7/2/07, Lisa Jarnot wrote: > > hey list folks, > > a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised > version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this > one. > > best, > lisa jarnot > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 08:17:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Stempleman Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Lisa, =20 I experienced the same treatment. I thought I may have been the only one wh= o's poems became "better" once the editor reworked them. I asked the editor= to return them to their original state, but I don't believe that change ev= er took place. =20 Jordan Stempleman > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:36:38 -0400> From: ljarnot@GMAIL.COM> Subject: l= istenlight magazine> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > hey list folks,> >= a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called > Listenl= ight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised > version (inc= luding new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse C= rockett, who said that he felt he had improved > the poems. just wanted to = send out a heads up to stay away from this > one.> > best,> lisa jarnot _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live Hotmail, you can personalize your inbox with your favorit= e color. www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/personalize.html?locale=3Den-us&ocid= =3DTXT_TAGLM_HMWL_reten_addcolor_0607= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Poets in the Park, Albany Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Poets in the Park 2007 Saturdays in July at the Robert Burns statue Washington Park, Albany (at Henry Johnson Blvd. & Hudson Ave.) =A0July 7, 7PM "Under Cover" Albany Poets read Albany Poets (coordinated by Albany Poets, Inc.) July 14, 7PM Caitlin Meissner Chris Brabham July 21, 7PM Pat Dyjak Barbara Ungar July 28, 7PM Alison Koffler Dayl Wise Free!=A0& open to the public (just like the park) Rain dates:=A0the following Sundays, same time, same place sponsored by the Poetry Motel Foundation for information call 482-0262 =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 07:57:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Bush touches a soldiers wounded eye Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Washington Post - which seems to be trumping the NY Times all over he place on coverage of the Executives in Washington - has an interesting one today: The Imperiled Presidency Inside the Bunker A President Besieged and Isolated, Yet at Ease Bush, Grasping for Answers and Fixated on Iraq, Remains Resolute http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101 356.html?hpid=topnews (!!) I am particularly drawn to this 'found' moment of 'touch' with a wounded soldier to whom he is introduced after a speech to students at a school in Harlem: .. King, the GOP congressman, introduced him backstage to a soldier injured in one eye. Bush teared up and asked the young man to take off his dark glasses so he could see the wound, King recalled. "Human instinct is when someone has a serious injury to look the other way," King said. "He actually asked him to take them off. He actually touched the eye a little. It was almost as if he felt he had to confront it." Interesting to imagine what Bush is really 'confronting' here with the touch. A 'literal' moment rather than a 'rhetorical' one? I find the whole interaction loaded with implication, though it might have quickly disappeared from the President's personal consciousness. His experience of Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome will happen after he leaves Office, if then. However, I suspect this moment is already making it's way into an opera score yet to be written. In this article, for further weird flavor, Kissinger is also quoted as saying the President has not asked him to pray with him (as Nixon did when his regime was collapsing from Watergate et al). I am afraid we are a long way from the opera or any other form that might cope with this one. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 08:08:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: talks to walk by In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, I don't rule out - even if I could! - bringing in other means to intensify or reshape the way of looking. Grass,mushrooms, certain kinds of music, the accompaniment of a friend with a 'good eye' (or a knowledge of a history of x place) can certainly bring eye and ear closer into a fresh or new experience of whatever the space. I think the issue here is the use of 'ear' devices to block out the environment. It's the "kill 'em" response I have to somebody driving with a cell phone at their ear while turning a corner without any awareness at all that I am in the crosswalk and I have the light - for the most extreme, but pretty common example. A dangerous drug those cell phones. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > I really do like to multi-track myself. Well, I'm already > multi-tracked--'experience' is being fetishized here--aren't we all? And > differently. > My wife has music in her mind all the time; her problem is that it is > seldom of her choosing. Two of my sons are the same. I never have music > going on so I use a walkman (that should be ipod but ...). I walk > quite a lot, but usually the same routes. I could probably do them > blindfold. Tf anything the music > sharpens, or renews, my attention to such overfamiliar scenes by laying > over it an exitement not its own but which then becomes its own. > Wystan > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Mark Weiss > Sent: Monday, 2 July 2007 5:50 a.m. > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: talks to walk by > > Likewise. > > I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to listen to > music constantly. When a friend got one of the first walkmen I tried it > walking through Greenwich Village--once. It was a trip, but who wants to > trip all the time? And it cut me off radically from the life around me > (which is I guess the purpose--the outside world becomes entertainment), > as if it were a movie and the only reality was what came through the > earphones. I imagine that sense would have worn off with use, but would > I want to create a soundtrack for every experience? > > There could be an industry here. How about a hike through Darfur? A > mosque bombing in Iraq? A US family becoming homeless? A plague? > Melting tudra? Call the series "Music To Die With." Humanitarians could > even hand out CDs to the victims. > > And there's the matter of safety. Even the safest of cities has its > dangers--best to stay alert in all one's senses. > > Mark > > At 11:00 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote: >> I'm with you there, Stephen. I love the song of the city, and when >> Lynda and I travel by car we've long been used to having the radio off >> (the habit began back in the days of broken windows and stolen radios, >> etc.). >> So we hear the sound of the car rushing through air, the whine of >> tires, varying with the road surfaces, etc., even on those long, >> same-old stretches. >> >> Hal, also a music lover >> >> "Can't stop the dancing chicken." >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: >> >>> Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything >>> 'artificial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when I >>> walk I relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal > >>> chat, voices, etc. in my skull. >>> "Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, is a contradiction of >>> terms, night or day. But, when I walk, once I put my attention to it, >>> I find it rich and diverse in sounds. Conversations, jackhammers, >>> airplanes overhead, cell phones, traffic, etc., etc. The closer I >>> listen, it gets down to a syllable, vowel, diphthong level. The >>> various volumes, rhythms - the mix of spiked and flat sounds - take on > >>> a music of sorts. Which, in turn, informs the motion and attention of >>> the walk. >>> >>> Which is not to negate at all the experience of listening to great >>> music to either enhance the way of looking at and being with space, or > >>> providing the means to get through a real difficult one. In >>> California, for example, driving Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin >>> Valley between from where the Grapevine meets the Valley and, >>> probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this stretch can really do you in >>> without 'enhancers.' >>> >>> Anyway, as a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the >>> first 15 to 30 minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds >>> it brings across 'the windshield.' >>> >>> Stephen V >>> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:46:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: ars poetica update Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ars poetica project continues fill that niche at: http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/ Poems appeared last week by: Amy Lemmon, Nico Vassilakis, and Jacquie Williams. Poems will appear this week by: Jacquie Williams, and Dean Blehert. A new poem about poetry every day, by invitation only (but thanks for asking). Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 08:59:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Truitt Subject: "Days" (improvisational audio-photo poem--read "strip"--each day for year) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To each in all all in each and in equal parts hello, As some of you may know, in a work entitled "Days," I have been making an improvisational audio-photo poem - like the "strips" of "Transverse," some of which are on ubu.com - each 24-hour day so far of 2007. They are part of what somebody calls "phoetry." I just recently posted a slew to get relatively caught up – being busy with raising children, teaching and phd work – and so thought to post word, thus: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Samtruitt Youtube allows for comments, and I would be pleased to read your takes. I can say these are different from "Transverse" in that I am no longer in NYC and so not walking as much and so much of these happen in a state of standing, sitting or driving (though not sleeping yet). Many thanks for looking as you may. Sam _____________________________________________________________ Sam Truitt's "Days" (improvisational AV strip each day of 2007) www.youtube.com/profile?user=Samtruitt --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 09:50:42 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: "Selected Poems" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Early last month, I received the unexpected gift of a manuscript that I = thought had been lost. A woman whom I have never meet, an art gallery = owner in Sausalito, CA., had been storing them. Apparently, some thirty = years ago, I had given the manuscript to a friend, a young San Francisco = lawyer, with whom I didn't stay in touch. Now I learned from this woman = that he died twenty years ago! =20 All that time she had kept the manuscript, not knowing how to contact = me. Then, inadvertently, she came across my name on the Internet. What = kindness, safeguarding for twenty years work of poet unknown to herself! I've been reading the poems, over one hundred of which, with some = amazement and light revising, I've decided are worthwhile offering to = whomever cares to read them: http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/cont-p.htm -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:00:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Paper Kite Studio - New Address and Upcoming Titles Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Paper Kite Press has a new address! As of July 1st, we're officially in our new studio: 443 Main Street Kingston, PA 18704 USA It's a first floor storefront space - nice and roomy (perfect for readings and workshops) with loads of bookshelves! Since we need some time to shuffle books and furniture (and paint the walls gallery-white (hmm, why would we do that?)), we'll be launching into the regular workshop and reading schedule again in August. Stay tuned! We've also significantly ramped up the publication schedule - two new books coming out in the next few months: Too Bad It's Poetry by Jim Warner and Silent Type by Barbara DeCesare We're constantly receiving manuscripts, and the schedule is filled through 2009. Please check out the website for our current list of titles. Happy Summer, Jennifer & Dan -- Paper Kite Press & Wordpainting Studio 443 Main Street Kingston, PA 18704 USA http://www.wordpainting.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: talks to walk by/Bush touches a soldier's wounded eye MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Perhaps in touching the solider's wounded eye El Diablo Bush is, in Stephen= 's words, "bringing in other means to intensify or reshape the way of look= ing . . . {for} the accompaniement of a friend with a 'good eye' . . . can= certainly bring eye and ear closer into a fresh or new experience of whate= ver the space." The Situationists 40 years ago were writing of "Tour= s in Other People's Misery" and in the 1930's Walter Benjamin wrote of the = aetheticizing of otherwise grim scenes attainable via the clarity and clean= liness as it were of Neue Sachlichkeit images. There's something oddly lik= e a form of aesthetic tourism in peopledisconnecting from earphones, automo= biles, virtual screens and walking about among people, trees,voices, sounds= , streets, trying to find "new" ways to experience something which they are= at the same time just discovering as though a previously unknown realm. T= here's something bizarrely and hilariously selfrighteous in a person who ha= s decided to do without earphones for a little while of an afternoon being= mad at a person on a cell phone. The distances of alienation prod= uce strange discoveries of simulated "presents" covering over what is hypo= thesized as an "absence" yet is an actuality "hidden in plainsite/sight/cit= e"--not so much a purloined actuality as one barely acknowledged to begin w= ith, and so ableto have been dispensed with long ago and forgotten about an= d left behind. The world becomes a place whereseeings imposed upon it make= invisible what is there and seek to fill the "empty space" with the produc= ts of a "new seeing". The problems arise when what is already there begin= s to be exposed, and to expose itself,in the words of Paul Celan: "Poetry = no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself." And Emerson: "The blan= k and ruin we see in Nature is in our own eye." What begins to expos= e itself--may not "fit the picture"--and so again remains unseen--"a blank = and ruin" Or--it may need to be censored, suppressed . . . colonized . .= . which is why no doubt many things remain hidden in plain site/sight/cite= ! > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 08:08:04 -0700> From: steph484@PACBELL.NET= > Subject: Re: talks to walk by> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Yes, I= don't rule out - even if I could! - bringing in other means to> intensify = or reshape the way of looking. Grass,mushrooms, certain kinds of> music, th= e accompaniment of a friend with a 'good eye' (or a knowledge of a> history= of x place) can certainly bring eye and ear closer into a fresh or> new ex= perience of whatever the space.> > I think the issue here is the use of 'ea= r' devices to block out the> environment. It's the "kill 'em" response I ha= ve to somebody driving with a> cell phone at their ear while turning a corn= er without any awareness at all> that I am in the crosswalk and I have the = light - for the most extreme, but> pretty common example. A dangerous drug= those cell phones.> > Stephen V> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/> > > > > = > > > I really do like to multi-track myself. Well, I'm already> > multi-tr= acked--'experience' is being fetishized here--aren't we all? And> > differe= ntly.> > My wife has music in her mind all the time; her problem is that it= is> > seldom of her choosing. Two of my sons are the same. I never have mu= sic> > going on so I use a walkman (that should be ipod but ...). I walk>= > quite a lot, but usually the same routes. I could probably do them> > bl= indfold. Tf anything the music> > sharpens, or renews, my attention to suc= h overfamiliar scenes by laying> > over it an exitement not its own but whi= ch then becomes its own.> > Wystan > > > > -----Original Message----->= > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]>= > On Behalf Of Mark Weiss> > Sent: Monday, 2 July 2007 5:50 a.m.> > To: PO= ETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Subject: Re: talks to walk by> > > > Likewise= .> > > > I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to listen t= o> > music constantly. When a friend got one of the first walkmen I tried i= t> > walking through Greenwich Village--once. It was a trip, but who wants = to> > trip all the time? And it cut me off radically from the life around m= e> > (which is I guess the purpose--the outside world becomes entertainment= ),> > as if it were a movie and the only reality was what came through the>= > earphones. I imagine that sense would have worn off with use, but would>= > I want to create a soundtrack for every experience?> > > > There could b= e an industry here. How about a hike through Darfur? A> > mosque bombing in= Iraq? A US family becoming homeless? A plague?> > Melting tudra? Call the = series "Music To Die With." Humanitarians could> > even hand out CDs to the= victims.> > > > And there's the matter of safety. Even the safest of citie= s has its> > dangers--best to stay alert in all one's senses.> > > > Mark> = > > > At 11:00 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:> >> I'm with you there, Stephen. I l= ove the song of the city, and when> >> Lynda and I travel by car we've long= been used to having the radio off> >> (the habit began back in the days of= broken windows and stolen radios,> >> etc.).> >> So we hear the sound of t= he car rushing through air, the whine of> >> tires, varying with the road s= urfaces, etc., even on those long,> >> same-old stretches.> >> > >> Hal, al= so a music lover> >> > >> "Can't stop the dancing chicken."> >> > >> Halvar= d Johnson> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> >> halvard@= earthlink.net> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html> >> http://= entropyandme.blogspot.com> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com> >> ht= tp://www.hamiltonstone.org> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocab= ooks.html> >> > >> > >> On Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote:>= >> > >>> Lately, for a long time, lately, I have not been putting anything= > >>> 'artificial' in my ears. In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when I>= >>> walk I relish quiet zones, and/or ignoring the persistence of personal= > > > >>> chat, voices, etc. in my skull.> >>> "Silence" , practiced as suc= h, in the City, is a contradiction of> >>> terms, night or day. But, when I= walk, once I put my attention to it,> >>> I find it rich and diverse in so= unds. Conversations, jackhammers,> >>> airplanes overhead, cell phones, tra= ffic, etc., etc. The closer I> >>> listen, it gets down to a syllable, vowe= l, diphthong level. The> >>> various volumes, rhythms - the mix of spiked a= nd flat sounds - take on> > > >>> a music of sorts. Which, in turn, informs= the motion and attention of> >>> the walk.> >>> > >>> Which is not to nega= te at all the experience of listening to great> >>> music to either enhance= the way of looking at and being with space, or> > > >>> providing the mean= s to get through a real difficult one. In> >>> California, for example, dri= ving Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin> >>> Valley between from where th= e Grapevine meets the Valley and,> >>> probably, the Los Banos turnoff, thi= s stretch can really do you in> >>> without 'enhancers.'> >>> > >>> Anyway,= as a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the> >>> first 15 to= 30 minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds> >>> it brings ac= ross 'the windshield.'> >>> > >>> Stephen V> >>> http://stephenvincent.net/= blog/ _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i=92m Ini= tiative now. It=92s free.=A0=A0 http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGWL_June07= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:53:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: Listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My work also receieved similar treatment in this issue of LIstenlight. The "improvement" contains only (modified versions of) words that appear in my original, but the similarity to my poem ends there (few strings of more than one word survived, and the order is utterly different). The editor hasn't responded to my emails, which were as good-humored as I could manage (I find the whole thing so odd that indignation took quite some time to set in at all), or replaced the published text. All this without prior notice that the work had been radically re-written/collaged (to its detriment, I'm sorry to say), or that the work had been accepted at all. Yeah, watch out. --Andy Gricevich Lisa, I experienced the same treatment. I thought I may have been the only one who's poems became "better" once the editor reworked them. I asked the editor to return them to their original state, but I don't believe that change ever took place. Jordan Stempleman > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:36:38 -0400> From: [log in to unmask]> Subject: listenlight magazine> To: [log in to unmask]> > hey list folks,> > a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised > version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this > one.> > best,> lisa jarnot ____________________________________________________________________________________ Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. http://games.yahoo.com/games/front ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 12:49:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Timmons Subject: Late Night Snack Tues July 10 at 9:30pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *Late Night Snack Tuesday, July 10 at 9:30pm at Betalevel (directions below) **http://betalevel.com/2007/07/10/late-night-snack-15/ hosted by Harold Abramowitz and Mathew Timmons upcoming dates: July 24 and August 7 * =85 and Pluplubasch when it means hobby horse. And so forth. World war without end, revolution without beginnin', you friends and tunes, dance, manifestos= , theory, poems, pictures, masks and Pluplubasch when it has been formed whos= e aim Is terribly simple. In French it has been formed whose aim Is to outrag= e thuh sale of beer, sausages and esuper imaginable waste product of young artists of their orientation, are forerunners, prophets of uncontrolled forces. They are forerunners, prophets of World War I ragin' around it, and opposin' of performance, such as sound poetry and readin's at thuh sale of World War I ragin' around it, thuh public. Above Is a group of scandal: to come along with suggestions and writers has been rainin'? A tree be talkin' about it, and writers has been formed whose aim Is above. Chaos erupted. Thuh first public soiree, Is below, below Is below, below Is to outrage thuh fact that until now nobod knew anythin' about it. Comes from thuh artists experimentin' with tunes al performances and tunes, dance, manifestos, theory, poems, pictures, masks and Pluplubasch when it exhibited was often chaotic and writers has been rainin'? A bit to create a tree be talkin' about it, thuh idea of performance, such as sound poetry and give tunes, dance, manifestos, theory, poems, pictures, masks and Pluplubasch when it exhibited was often chaotic and of thuh public. Above Is above. Chaos erupted. Thuh fact that guest artists will be a literary cabaret to start =85 At Late Night Snack on June 26, 2007: Alyssandra Nighswonger played guitar and sang. Jane Sprague presented Syria is in the World by Ara Shirinyan. Ara Shirinyan read from Syria is in the World by Ara Shirinyan. The Year Zero played music. Alan Semerdjian & Will Alexander created music. =85 At Late Night Snack on June 12, 2007: A film by Danielle Adair. Will Alexander gave a lecture. Laura Steenberge played bass and sang. Todd Collins read. Stan Apps read. Lee Ann Brown did string tricks. Tony Torn and Lee Ann Brown presented a reading. =85 At Late Night Snack on May 29, 2007: A film by Nick Flavin. Jane Sprague performed. Laura Steenberge gave a lecture. Emily Lacy played banjo and sang. Will Alexander read. =85 At Late Night Snack on May 15, 2007: Ara Shirinyan read. Laura Steenberge played guitar and sang. Emily Lacy spontaneously played guitar and sang. Dan Richert's hi-tech hut made sound. =85 At Late Night Snack on April 24, 2007: A film by Danielle Adair. Laura Steenberge played stand-up bass and sang. Teresa Carmody read. Sean Deyoe performed karaoke. Stan Apps read. Sandy Ding performed the Flash Light Sho= w with Laura Steenberge. =85 At Late Night Snack on April 10, 2007: Emily Lac= y played banjo and sang. Jen Hofer and Billy Mark created spontaneous poetry. WAMPA staged the Dialectical Fuss. Frederique de Montblanc and Janne Larsen presented the Masculinihilist Manifesto. =85 At Late Night Snack on March 2= 0, 2007: Maximus Kim explained his manifesto. Ara Shirinyan. Milly Saunders read. Frederique de Montblanc and Janne Larsen presented a film. Jen Hofer read, assisted by William Mark. =85 At Late Night Snack on March 6, 2007: Mathew Timmons read. Oliver Hall played guitar and sang. Emily Lacy played banjo and sang. Stan Apps lectured spontaneously. =85 At Late Night Snack o= n Feb 20, 2007: Michael Smoler read handmade tarot cards and projected them o= n the wall. Emily Lacy played banjo and sang. Ara Shirinyan read. Jane Spragu= e read, assisted by Marcus Civin. =85 At Late Night Snack on Feb 6, 2007: Mar= cus Civin performed. Oliver Hall played guitar and sang. Roy Lanoy (Stan Apps) read from the WAMPA mailbag and dispensed advice. Alex Maslansky played guitar and sang. Nature's Nobleman, Sir Oliver Hall, read from his WAMPA Conference address. Emily Lacy played banjo and sang. Teresa Carmody and Vanessa Place presented Turkey Trot. =85 At Late Night Snack on Jan 16, 200= 7: Marcus Civin performed, Oliver Hall played guitar and sang, Lloyd Ducal (Joseph Mosconi) and Roy Lanoy (Stan Apps) presented the tenets of WAMPA, Michael Smoler read handmade tarot cards and projected them on the wall, Darin Klein presented Untitled Performance with Stan Apps, Jesse Aron Green= , Steven Reigns, and Christopher Russell, Emily Lacy played banjo, fiddle, an= d sang =85 At Late Night Snack on Dec 19, 2006: Oliver Hall played guitar and sang, Cat Lamb and Lewis Keller performed a composition for viola and electrified cymbal/electronics, Stan Apps read, Khanh Tran performed a recital on the theremin =85 At Late Night Snack on Dec 5, 2006: Oliver Hall played guitar and sang, Michael Smoler read handmade tarot cards and projected them on the wall, "Ghost drawings 'were' brought fourth throught the ouija board assisted by christian cummings and michael decker.", Teresa Carmody and Vanessa Place played Judgment Day Bingo with the audience, Ara Shirinyan read =85 At Late Night Snack on Nov 21, 2006: Ara Shirinyan read, Sandy Ding performed the Flash Light Show, Oliver Hall played guitar and sang. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 14:38:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: "Selected Poems" In-Reply-To: <013701c7bcd1$836aa6a0$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit great story. every once in a while, something does work out. i think you shd contact dick gordon of "The Story" on NPR and get a segment on the air abt this, to get poetry and the auratic signficance of poetry ms's into the public wavelength...xo, md Joel Weishaus wrote: > Early last month, I received the unexpected gift of a manuscript that I thought had been lost. A woman whom I have never meet, an art gallery owner in Sausalito, CA., had been storing them. Apparently, some thirty years ago, I had given the manuscript to a friend, a young San Francisco lawyer, with whom I didn't stay in touch. Now I learned from this woman that he died twenty years ago! > > All that time she had kept the manuscript, not knowing how to contact me. Then, inadvertently, she came across my name on the Internet. What kindness, safeguarding for twenty years work of poet unknown to herself! > > I've been reading the poems, over one hundred of which, with some amazement and light revising, I've decided are worthwhile offering to whomever cares to read them: > > http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/weishaus/cont-p.htm > > -Joel > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:59:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Independence Day: Political Art Actions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act." ~ George Orwell JULY 4th POLITICAL ART ACTIONS: CHICAGO, IL ****************************************************** Feel Tank Chicago and Mrs. Rao's Growl present The 5th Annual International Parade of the Politically Depressed & Picnic LAUGH http://pathogeographies.net July 4, 2007 The parade will start: 2pm at Gallery 400, 400 S. Peoria. The picnic LAUGH will start: 4pm in the Art Institute sculpture garden the north side near the Henry Moore statue. Come barbecue your sense of defeat. Marinate it in a delicious concoction of counter-politics and collectivity. Stew in alternative emotions! Wear black (dress depressed), bring your meds, and bring something colored red to lie down on. Come help feel and make a political world that deserves our optimism. LAUGH will be the picnic after the parade! This performance has been performed numerous places and times since the war began. It is based on the therapeutic laughing circles of India and the children's game called HA HA HA in which participants lie on their backs with their heads on each other's bellies and laugh (til you cry and cry til you laugh)--this is a laughter that has no punch line--laughter as protest, as an aerobic workout, as ceremony, to strengthen our communal ties, for those who cannot laugh. ****************************************************** Tomb of the Known, Emily Siefken http://www.emilysiefken.com Navy veteran Emily Siefken performs a work honoring and memorializing the lives and deaths of female military casualties of the Iraq War. This work is an endurance piece, dedicated to fallen female soldiers in the present wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It will be performed in various places until combat operations are deemed over. On the front plinth of the MCA: *Tuesday, July 3, at 7pm *Wednesday, July 4, from 1-4pm and 8:30-11:30pm In the McCormick Tribune Gallery: *Thursday, July 5 - Sunday, July 8, from 1-4pm Museum of Contemporary Art 220 East Chicago Avenue http://www.mcachicago.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:05:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for this lisa jesse also wanted to severely edit my wife's work but at least let us know first used the same theory of improvement must be her thing even wanted to change title sweetly insisting changes would make poem better and more readable yuko my wife declined of course and when yuko refused tho jesse had said how much she loved the work despite her intense desire to corrupt it jesse would not publish it to change work without asking breaks all the rules and is wrong bad enough this happens with reviews alot and other prose works steve d On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:36:38 -0400 Lisa Jarnot writes: > hey list folks, > > a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised > > version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > > the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this > > one. > > best, > lisa jarnot > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:04:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <95A253F2-516B-46B5-BC97-65883322D2B2@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and he altered it and posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't know any better than to question his choices, though they weren't offensive enough for me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, for comparison.=20 is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just not the done thing? as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be understood as "take it or leave it"? fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is right before I experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first encounter with langpo and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... so this one was kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating with Jesse I was aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my current work; that is, I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing with it. now that I look back at it, I like my version of the piece better. tl --- original:=20 jump the fence -- run out of ideas and the yard=20 (Heraclitus' feet are sore from stepping in the same river over and over again. -- 8/4/05) I've run out of ideas. They're dragging the river, but they won't find anything. The kind of trace they look for, they can't pull it up. I climbed the fence when no one was looking and now everyone's on watch, digging around for me,=20 in the wrong place. "You'll never fix the mess you've made," someone said. "You should know better, what were you thinking?" I had to get away from that, get away from the petty crimes I've been committing all along. You think, or you ignore your responsibilities, and they send the State Troopers out to patrol the streets, helicopters hanging loud in the air over your neighborhood, shake the windows, wait for you to leave so they can draw a bead on you. Someone's bound to smoke you out- they can wait, have all the time in the world to catch you=20 in your erroneous ways,=20 new crimes to compound=20 onto the old ones. So I jumped the back fence and got out.=20 Pretty soon they'll forget who they were looking for. I just hope I don't run out of ideas first. --- edited version (I provided the new title, as it framed the "narrative" better): fugitive I've run out of ideas.=20 They're dredging the river,=20 but they will find nothing.=20 The kind of trace they look for=20 they can't pull up.=20 I climbed the fence=20 when nobody was looking=20 and now everyone's on watch,=20 digging around for me=20 in the wrong places.=20 "You'll never fix=20 the mess you've made,"=20 someone says. "You should=20 know better, what=20 were you thinking?"=20 I had to get away from that,=20 get away from all the petty crimes.=20 You think, or you ignore=20 responsibilities and they send the State=20 Troopers out patrolling the streets,=20 helicopters hanging loud in the night=20 over your neighborhood, shaking=20 the windows, waiting on you to leave=20 so they can draw their bead.=20 Someone's bound to smoke you out.=20 They can wait, have all the time=20 in the world to trap you=20 in erring ways, new crimes=20 compounding on the old.=20 So I jump the back fence=20 and get out.=20 Soon they will forget=20 who they were looking for. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Lisa Jarnot Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 21:37 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: listenlight magazine hey list folks, a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called =20 Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised =20 version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the =20 editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved =20 the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this =20 one. best, lisa jarnot ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 15:28:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Coffey Subject: Re: Observable Readings, 2007-08 In-Reply-To: <20070630.032227.1164.28.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Bird Hoverers. On 6/30/07, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > how do they get to st louis? car train plane? > > On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:56:56 -0400 Aaron Belz writes: > > Look at all these cool poets who are coming to read in St. Louis. . > > . > > > > Tony Trigilio, Allison Funk, Daniel Borzutsky, Peter Davis, Richard > > Newman, > > Troy Jollimore, Jane O. Wayne, Gabriel Fried, Jane Ellen Ibur, > > Francisco > > Aragon, Adrian Matejka, Dana Goodyear, Dan Chiasson, Andrew Zawacki, > > Kristi > > Odelius, Simone Muench, Kate Colby, Cate Marvin, Katie Ford, Kate > > Greenstreet, Kate Peterson, Kate Pringle, Kate Shapira, Katy > > Lederer, Ken > > Rumble, Matt Freeman, and Larry Sawyer > > > > Readings held at Schlafly Bottleworks on the first Thursday of each > > month > > (with some exceptions) at 8 PM, and FREE > > > > The total info is here: http://observable.org/readings/ > > > > > -- http://hyperhypo.org/blog http://www.pftborder.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: talks to walk by/Bush touches a soldier's wounded eye In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This is from the head of an administration which for four years censored any photographs of coffins of dead soldiers arriving home. Perhaps Bush is trying to catch up (with something which seems finally has caught up with him). He has also begun to consult "deep thinkers," a regular Marcus Aurelius. Ciao, Murat On 7/2/07, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > Perhaps in touching the solider's wounded eye El Diablo Bush is, in > Stephen's words, "bringing in other means to intensify or reshape the way > of looking . . . {for} the accompaniement of a friend with a 'good eye' . . > . can certainly bring eye and ear closer into a fresh or new experience of > whatever the space." The Situationists 40 years ago were writing of > "Tours in Other People's Misery" and in the 1930's Walter Benjamin wrote of > the aetheticizing of otherwise grim scenes attainable via the clarity and > cleanliness as it were of Neue Sachlichkeit images. There's something oddly > like a form of aesthetic tourism in peopledisconnecting from earphones, > automobiles, virtual screens and walking about among people, trees,voices, > sounds, streets, trying to find "new" ways to experience something which > they are at the same time just discovering as though a previously unknown > realm. There's something bizarrely and hilariously selfrighteous in a > person who has decided to do without earphones for a little while of an > afternoon being mad at a person on a cell phone. The distances of > alienation produce strange discoveries of simulated "presents" covering > over what is hypothesized as an "absence" yet is an actuality "hidden in > plainsite/sight/cite"--not so much a purloined actuality as one barely > acknowledged to begin with, and so ableto have been dispensed with long ago > and forgotten about and left behind. The world becomes a place whereseeings > imposed upon it make invisible what is there and seek to fill the "empty > space" with the products of a "new seeing". The problems arise when what > is already there begins to be exposed, and to expose itself,in the words of > Paul Celan: "Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself." And > Emerson: "The blank and ruin we see in Nature is in our own > eye." What begins to expose itself--may not "fit the picture"--and so > again remains unseen--"a blank and ruin" Or--it may need to be censored, > suppressed . . . colonized . . . which is why no doubt many things remain > hidden in plain site/sight/cite! > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 08:08:04 > -0700> From: steph484@PACBELL.NET> Subject: Re: talks to walk by> To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Yes, I don't rule out - even if I could! - > bringing in other means to> intensify or reshape the way of looking. > Grass,mushrooms, certain kinds of> music, the accompaniment of a friend with > a 'good eye' (or a knowledge of a> history of x place) can certainly bring > eye and ear closer into a fresh or> new experience of whatever the space.> > > I think the issue here is the use of 'ear' devices to block out the> > environment. It's the "kill 'em" response I have to somebody driving with a> > cell phone at their ear while turning a corner without any awareness at all> > that I am in the crosswalk and I have the light - for the most extreme, > but> pretty common example. A dangerous drug those cell phones.> > Stephen > V> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/> > > > > > > > I really do like to > multi-track myself. Well, I'm already> > multi-tracked--'experience' is > being fetishized here--aren't we all? And> > differently.> > My wife has > music in her mind all the time; her problem is that it is> > seldom of her > choosing. Two of my sons are the same. I never have music> > going on so I > use a walkman (that should be ipod but ...). I walk> > quite a lot, but > usually the same routes. I could probably do them> > blindfold. Tf anything > the music> > sharpens, or renews, my attention to such overfamiliar scenes > by laying> > over it an exitement not its own but which then becomes its > own.> > Wystan > > > > -----Original Message-----> > From: UB Poetics > discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]> > On Behalf Of > Mark Weiss> > Sent: Monday, 2 July 2007 5:50 a.m.> > To: > POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Subject: Re: talks to walk by> > > > > Likewise.> > > > I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want to > listen to> > music constantly. When a friend got one of the first walkmen I > tried it> > walking through Greenwich Village--once. It was a trip, but who > wants to> > trip all the time? And it cut me off radically from the life > around me> > (which is I guess the purpose--the outside world becomes > entertainment),> > as if it were a movie and the only reality was what came > through the> > earphones. I imagine that sense would have worn off with use, > but would> > I want to create a soundtrack for every experience?> > > > > There could be an industry here. How about a hike through Darfur? A> > > mosque bombing in Iraq? A US family becoming homeless? A plague?> > Melting > tudra? Call the series "Music To Die With." Humanitarians could> > even hand > out CDs to the victims.> > > > And there's the matter of safety. Even the > safest of cities has its> > dangers--best to stay alert in all one's > senses.> > > > Mark> > > > At 11:00 AM 7/1/2007, you wrote:> >> I'm with you > there, Stephen. I love the song of the city, and when> >> Lynda and I travel > by car we've long been used to having the radio off> >> (the habit began > back in the days of broken windows and stolen radios,> >> etc.).> >> So we > hear the sound of the car rushing through air, the whine of> >> tires, > varying with the road surfaces, etc., even on those long,> >> same-old > stretches.> >> > >> Hal, also a music lover> >> > >> "Can't stop the dancing > chicken."> >> > >> Halvard Johnson> >> ================> >> > halvard@earthlink.net> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html> > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com> >> > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org> > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html> >> > >> > >> On > Jul 1, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote:> >> > >>> Lately, for a long > time, lately, I have not been putting anything> >>> 'artificial' in my ears. > In a kind of contrary mode, I guess, when I> >>> walk I relish quiet zones, > and/or ignoring the persistence of personal> > > >>> chat, voices, etc. in > my skull.> >>> "Silence" , practiced as such, in the City, is a > contradiction of> >>> terms, night or day. But, when I walk, once I put my > attention to it,> >>> I find it rich and diverse in sounds. Conversations, > jackhammers,> >>> airplanes overhead, cell phones, traffic, etc., etc. The > closer I> >>> listen, it gets down to a syllable, vowel, diphthong level. > The> >>> various volumes, rhythms - the mix of spiked and flat sounds - take > on> > > >>> a music of sorts. Which, in turn, informs the motion and > attention of> >>> the walk.> >>> > >>> Which is not to negate at all the > experience of listening to great> >>> music to either enhance the way of > looking at and being with space, or> > > >>> providing the means to get > through a real difficult one. In> >>> California, for example, driving > Highway 5 up or down the San Joaquin> >>> Valley between from where the > Grapevine meets the Valley and,> >>> probably, the Los Banos turnoff, this > stretch can really do you in> >>> without 'enhancers.'> >>> > >>> Anyway, as > a general rule, I take a little vow of silence for the> >>> first 15 to 30 > minutes of any walk. Amazing what the kinds of sounds> >>> it brings across > 'the windshield.'> >>> > >>> Stephen V> >>> > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > _________________________________________________________________ > Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i'm > Initiative now. It's free. > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGWL_June07 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:12:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <176688.10779.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Maybe the harmed contributors should have taken a harder look at the potential significance of the magazine's title; the way in which "Listenlight" might reflect its editor's hand in revising poems 'upward', so to speak! I mean "Listenlight" does not seem to want to ask its readers to do any heavy-lifting! Not to make any excuses for this abuse of editorial power!! Stephen http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > My work also receieved similar treatment in this issue > of LIstenlight. The "improvement" contains only > (modified versions of) words that appear in my > original, but the similarity to my poem ends there > (few strings of more than one word survived, and the > order is utterly different). The editor hasn't > responded to my emails, which were as good-humored as > I could manage (I find the whole thing so odd that > indignation took quite some time to set in at all), or > replaced the published text. All this without prior > notice that the work had been radically > re-written/collaged (to its detriment, I'm sorry to > say), or that the work had been accepted at all. > > Yeah, watch out. > > --Andy Gricevich > > > > > > > > Lisa, > > I experienced the same treatment. I thought I may have > been the only one who's poems became "better" once the > editor reworked them. I asked the editor to return > them to their original state, but I don't believe that > change ever took place. > > Jordan Stempleman > > > >> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:36:38 -0400> From: [log in > to unmask]> Subject: listenlight magazine> To: [log in > to unmask]> > hey list folks,> > a student of mine > recently sent work to an online journal called > > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a > much revised > version (including new lines added to > the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse > Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > the > poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away > from this > one.> > best,> lisa jarnot > > > > ______________________________________________________________________________ > ______ > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:15:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Model Homes Subject: Re: Listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <176688.10779.qm@web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I had a somewhat similar experience with ListenLight--the editor rewrote sections of my poem, then asked what I thought. I told him I appreciated the attention on my work, but didn't feel comfortable with the changes. Then he sent a bizarre email saying that he thought I might not be who I claimed to be and that he would feel better about publishing my poems the way I wanted them if I could prove my identity by sending an email from my school account. I've never published under a pseudonym, so it was a weird request--I chose to end correspondance. I also later found his blog (which doesn't seem to be up anymore, or at least is less googleable). There was a blog entry or two that was actually the editor describing his interactions with submitters--his edits, their reactions, etc. Very strange. At least he didn't put my poems up-- Marie Buck On 7/2/07, Andy Gricevich wrote: > > My work also receieved similar treatment in this issue > of LIstenlight. The "improvement" contains only > (modified versions of) words that appear in my > original, but the similarity to my poem ends there > (few strings of more than one word survived, and the > order is utterly different). The editor hasn't > responded to my emails, which were as good-humored as > I could manage (I find the whole thing so odd that > indignation took quite some time to set in at all), or > replaced the published text. All this without prior > notice that the work had been radically > re-written/collaged (to its detriment, I'm sorry to > say), or that the work had been accepted at all. > > Yeah, watch out. > > --Andy Gricevich > > > > > > > > Lisa, > > I experienced the same treatment. I thought I may have > been the only one who's poems became "better" once the > editor reworked them. I asked the editor to return > them to their original state, but I don't believe that > change ever took place. > > Jordan Stempleman > > > > > Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 22:36:38 -0400> From: [log in > to unmask]> Subject: listenlight magazine> To: [log in > to unmask]> > hey list folks,> > a student of mine > recently sent work to an online journal called > > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a > much revised > version (including new lines added to > the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse > Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > the > poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away > from this > one.> > best,> lisa jarnot > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Bored stiff? Loosen up... > Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. > http://games.yahoo.com/games/front > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:16:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Howe Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69ABA@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline wow, this is kind of baffling. I've never had the editor of a poetry journal ask for revisions-- you take the poem or you don't. Although a situation where an editor made certain suggestions that one could take or leave seems like it would be fine, as long as the poem's author was engaged with the process-- that's more like collaboration. I wouldn't change my poems so that an editor would print them in a magazine, but I might change them if an editor I respected offered insightful suggestions that made sense to me. But for an editor to simply change a poem and print it without consulting the author is beyond the pale. For what it's worth, I had some poems in Listenlight a couple issues ago, and one of them did include a minor change: "wangled" was printed as "wrangled." When I contacted Jesse about the error, it was corrected immediately, and all my interactions with Jesse were friendly and aboveboard. But now this... yep. It's a head scratcher. Jesse's on this list right? Now might be a good time to chime in... Brian Howe On 7/2/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and he altered it and > posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: > > http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ > > he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't know any better > than to question his choices, though they weren't offensive enough for > me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, for comparison. > > is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just not the done thing? > as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be understood as "take it > or leave it"? > > fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is right before I > experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first encounter with langpo > and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... so this one was > kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating with Jesse I was > aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my current work; that is, > I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing with it. now that > I look back at it, I like my version of the piece better. > > tl > > --- > > original: > > jump the fence -- run out of ideas and the yard > > (Heraclitus' feet are sore from stepping in > the same river over and over again. -- 8/4/05) > > I've run out of ideas. > They're dragging the river, > but they won't find anything. > The kind of trace they look for, > they can't pull it up. > I climbed the fence > when no one was looking > and now everyone's on watch, > digging around for me, > in the wrong place. > > "You'll never fix > the mess you've made," > someone said. "You should > know better, what > were you thinking?" > > I had to get away from that, > get away from the petty crimes > I've been committing all along. > You think, or you ignore > your responsibilities, > and they send the State Troopers > out to patrol the streets, helicopters > hanging loud in the air > over your neighborhood, shake > the windows, wait for you to leave > so they can draw a bead on you. > > Someone's bound to smoke you out- > they can wait, have all the time > in the world to catch you > in your erroneous ways, > new crimes to compound > onto the old ones. > > So I jumped the back fence > and got out. > > Pretty soon they'll forget > who they were looking for. > I just hope I don't run out of ideas first. > > --- > > edited version (I provided the new title, as it framed the "narrative" > better): > > fugitive > > I've run out of ideas. > They're dredging the river, > but they will find nothing. > The kind of trace they look for > they can't pull up. > > I climbed the fence > when nobody was looking > and now everyone's on watch, > digging around for me > in the wrong places. > > "You'll never fix > the mess you've made," > someone says. "You should > know better, what > were you thinking?" > > I had to get away from that, > get away from all the petty crimes. > > You think, or you ignore > responsibilities and they send the State > Troopers out patrolling the streets, > helicopters hanging loud in the night > over your neighborhood, shaking > the windows, waiting on you to leave > so they can draw their bead. > > Someone's bound to smoke you out. > They can wait, have all the time > in the world to trap you > in erring ways, new crimes > compounding on the old. > > So I jump the back fence > and get out. > > Soon they will forget > who they were looking for. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Lisa Jarnot > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 21:37 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: listenlight magazine > > hey list folks, > > a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised > version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this > one. > > best, > lisa jarnot > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 16:54:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Bush touches a soldiers wounded eye In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > > .. King, the GOP congressman, introduced him backstage to a soldier > injured > in one eye. Bush teared up and asked the young man to take off his dark > glasses so he could see the wound, King recalled. "Human instinct is > when > someone has a serious injury to look the other way," King said. "He > actually > asked him to take them off. He actually touched the eye a little. It > was > almost as if he felt he had to confront it." Nah. You'll remember that Jesus put some spit and dirt on a blind guy's eyes and restored his sight. Bush is here just indicating his non-ironic sense of his own messianic touch. Bowering, George H. A relatively untravelled Canadian writer. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 18:35:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit O THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:04:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Didi Menendez Subject: Re: THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It is a beautiful day in Bloomington/Normal Mr. Gudding. Think of Amy King riding a donkey. Think of K. Silem Mohammad doing the watusi. Think of Emma Trelles singing Ave Maria. Didi Menendez MiPoesias Magazine ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gabriel Gudding=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 7:35 PM Subject: THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA O THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR = SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR = SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR = SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR = SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR = SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNATHINK OF JESUS OR = SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA THINK OF JESUS OR SANTA CLAUS SELLING A DARKENED TUNA ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:13:59 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1e7ff3150707021616l8a71c6eo984e8d935662f200@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Changing a poem and publishing changes without the author's consent is actually a violation of an author's moral rights. Which is to say, it's not only unethical, but illegal, though it seems a little fuzzy in the US. All the same, fairly clear in this instance, I would think. http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/D4718204-9904-42DF-8A5C84A64827173D/alpha/M/ All best Alison On 7/3/07, Brian Howe wrote: > > wow, this is kind of baffling. I've never had the editor of a poetry > journal > ask for revisions-- you take the poem or you don't. Although a situation > where an editor made certain suggestions that one could take or leave > seems > like it would be fine, as long as the poem's author was engaged with the > process-- that's more like collaboration. I wouldn't change my poems so > that > an editor would print them in a magazine, but I might change them if an > editor I respected offered insightful suggestions that made sense to me. > > But for an editor to simply change a poem and print it without consulting > the author is beyond the pale. For what it's worth, I had some poems in > Listenlight a couple issues ago, and one of them did include a minor > change: > "wangled" was printed as "wrangled." When I contacted Jesse about the > error, > it was corrected immediately, and all my interactions with Jesse were > friendly and aboveboard. But now this... yep. It's a head scratcher. > > Jesse's on this list right? Now might be a good time to chime in... > > Brian Howe > > On 7/2/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > > I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and he altered it and > > posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: > > > > http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ > > > > he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't know any better > > than to question his choices, though they weren't offensive enough for > > me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, for comparison. > > > > is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just not the done thing? > > as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be understood as "take it > > or leave it"? > > > > fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is right before I > > experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first encounter with langpo > > and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... so this one was > > kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating with Jesse I was > > aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my current work; that is, > > I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing with it. now that > > I look back at it, I like my version of the piece better. > > > > tl > > > > --- > > > > original: > > > > jump the fence -- run out of ideas and the yard > > > > (Heraclitus' feet are sore from stepping in > > the same river over and over again. -- 8/4/05) > > > > I've run out of ideas. > > They're dragging the river, > > but they won't find anything. > > The kind of trace they look for, > > they can't pull it up. > > I climbed the fence > > when no one was looking > > and now everyone's on watch, > > digging around for me, > > in the wrong place. > > > > "You'll never fix > > the mess you've made," > > someone said. "You should > > know better, what > > were you thinking?" > > > > I had to get away from that, > > get away from the petty crimes > > I've been committing all along. > > You think, or you ignore > > your responsibilities, > > and they send the State Troopers > > out to patrol the streets, helicopters > > hanging loud in the air > > over your neighborhood, shake > > the windows, wait for you to leave > > so they can draw a bead on you. > > > > Someone's bound to smoke you out- > > they can wait, have all the time > > in the world to catch you > > in your erroneous ways, > > new crimes to compound > > onto the old ones. > > > > So I jumped the back fence > > and got out. > > > > Pretty soon they'll forget > > who they were looking for. > > I just hope I don't run out of ideas first. > > > > --- > > > > edited version (I provided the new title, as it framed the "narrative" > > better): > > > > fugitive > > > > I've run out of ideas. > > They're dredging the river, > > but they will find nothing. > > The kind of trace they look for > > they can't pull up. > > > > I climbed the fence > > when nobody was looking > > and now everyone's on watch, > > digging around for me > > in the wrong places. > > > > "You'll never fix > > the mess you've made," > > someone says. "You should > > know better, what > > were you thinking?" > > > > I had to get away from that, > > get away from all the petty crimes. > > > > You think, or you ignore > > responsibilities and they send the State > > Troopers out patrolling the streets, > > helicopters hanging loud in the night > > over your neighborhood, shaking > > the windows, waiting on you to leave > > so they can draw their bead. > > > > Someone's bound to smoke you out. > > They can wait, have all the time > > in the world to trap you > > in erring ways, new crimes > > compounding on the old. > > > > So I jump the back fence > > and get out. > > > > Soon they will forget > > who they were looking for. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > > On Behalf Of Lisa Jarnot > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 21:37 > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: listenlight magazine > > > > hey list folks, > > > > a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal called > > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much revised > > version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > > editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had improved > > the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from this > > one. > > > > best, > > lisa jarnot > > > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 21:16:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: a call for moria MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline i'm looking for some visually-oriented poetry for the next issue of moria ( www.moriapoetry.com). if you have anything, send it to me. bill allegrezza www.moriapoetry.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 06:29:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: HOW2? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi all both of the URLs I have for HOW2 archives (bucknell and arizona) don't work. where can i access them? please backchannel! bests to all, md ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 01:20:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jesse has taken down the poem published under my name and responded kindly and frankly to my email. Thought I should let y'all know, rather than leave incomplete the account that took shape here yesterday. all the best to all here, Andy Gricevich --------------------------------- We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:19:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Duggan Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Speaking as the editor of a poetics journal, this all seems so unethical to me. I hope it's not as bad as it sounds, but I would never alter a poem even by one space, unless it was with the author's explicit permission. Who am I to say that a poem is better if I alter a break or extend or a line? I accept the poem or I don't, unless it's a matter of maybe one questionable word getting it into the journal or not. I'd like to hear what Jesse has to say, too. Hopefully it's a grave misunderstanding. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:02:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Talks to walk by MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit the responses to my post asking for suggestions on 'talks to walk by' have been really cool. thanks for those. a wee update on that erm enterprise. i tried it. with music. on a walk. it was invigorating. it made me want to break out into a jog. but i'm too stiff. just started walking about two weeks ago. and, unrelatedly, got a cellphone/mp3 player. hence the query. invigorating but slightly unnerving because the trail is also for bikes. so, as some have mentioned, it's a bit dangerous. probably too dangerous to make a habit of it. however, not only was it invigorating; it felt good. the music with the exercise. it was uplifting. also, interesting how the music extended from horizon to horizon, as it were. to the point where, upon encountering others, i had to remind myself that they were not grooving on the music. i appreciate the points people made about the value of actually listening to what's going on around you, and the relevance of that point to contemporary mindscapes. but, you know, even when we're 'listening', i wonder how much gets through. oddly, i've found that an interesting way of listening (on a walk or whatever) is to record it and play it back later. i've only done that a couple of times. but the results were very interesting. on hearing it later, i heard it very differently. one interprets the recording more symbolically. or i do. i tend to miss that symbolic meaning in the 'immersive' experience. i suppose it's related to the difference between hearing yourself when you're talking and hearing yourself via a recording. the latter provides a different 'point of view' or 'point of audition' than the usual one, gives us two perspectives, opens the third eye (or ear). ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:26:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: Bush touches a soldiers wounded eye In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Nice one, George. Always there waiting for the look-see, an olive branch in one hand, plenty o' arrows in the other, a commonplace book in back pocket while said to be seen standing in a runnel of holy water, this baptismal born again (or another guy passing through the turnstile), his mind full of nightmare and day's terror. For some odd reason, this story makes me think of Dickens' A Christmas Carol. Alex George Bowering wrote: > > .. King, the GOP congressman, introduced him backstage to a soldier > injured > in one eye. Bush teared up and asked the young man to take off his dark > glasses so he could see the wound, King recalled. "Human instinct is > when > someone has a serious injury to look the other way," King said. "He > actually > asked him to take them off. He actually touched the eye a little. It > was > almost as if he felt he had to confront it." Nah. You'll remember that Jesus put some spit and dirt on a blind guy's eyes and restored his sight. Bush is here just indicating his non-ironic sense of his own messianic touch. Bowering, George H. A relatively untravelled Canadian writer. -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:13:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I am perplexed as to why someone confident enough to send out work (to be shared ostensibly with the planet) would let a journal such as Listenlight, or any other, "barbarize" their hard work - and am sure some of us who are reading such stories are saddened by news of this kind. I think what has been shared by Lisa and others should provide many with a clear warning. Shame. I remember once telling someone who asked for my advice that at best an editor might make suggestions here and there, but that ultimately it was for the writer to painfully construct the "personality" of his/her own work, and that the risk is in making another's more like their own. I think Stephen and Allison are "right on the mark," as they say. In the end, one simply has to be confident and sometimes uncomfortably wait, if need be, for "golden ears" (as Ginsberg said). That waiting, as we all know, is much of what process is ultimately about - and that waiting, I think, sorts out those who are less committed from those who are willing to stubbornly prevail. Alex -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:43:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: histoire. memoire. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed histoire. memoire. life in this parts have been pretty good. http://www.asondheim.org/histoire.mp4 good life has parted from me. life has never been good. you might think more about life if you knew how close i was to death. i am a walking living death. i am welkin. i will take my life out like a dog. you will take your dog out to the desert beyond the desert. they tackle my parasites and defeat me. my defeat strengthens me. my defeat strengthens me to defeat me. death, be my harbinger. an omen of omens, sign of signs. kings of kings and queens of queens. my body is run replete with something of no consequence. i speak to you over the wires. plates of glass and memories ta'en up and laid to rest. i rescue you in bitterness for the gall and ferocity of life. i will gouge my eyes out if you don't. if you don't gouge out my eyes, i will. if you don't gouge out your eyes, i will. you will gouge out your eyes if i don't. hello earth i am not dead i am not healthy. i am what you say. life, you are a maelstrom to me. i will put out my eyes and put out my life. you will shoot it. then you will shoot yourself. these words were spoken by a dead man a dead woman. they live inside of me furiously. i will defeat myself i will kill myself. i will give a yes yes yes to life. i will give nothing up to death. you can see death in their eyes. you can see eyes. sometimes you wake up and you think; eyes are all i see. a world of eyes watching death, cultivating the garden of death. the wires burn; there is the smell of burning flesh. burning flesh, wires, photography and photography's plates. running everywhere but where. the fireflies light up the sightless nighttime sky. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 00:13:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Where is Jordan Davis? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Any help locating him would be appreciated. thanks, David ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:05:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Pusateri Subject: Now Out: Beloved Integer by Michelle Naka Pierce Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Now available: Beloved Integer by Michelle Naka Pierce BELOVED INTEGER Author: Pierce, Michelle Naka Cover: PAPERBACK Pub Date: 01 Jun 2007 Publisher: Pub Lush / Bootstrap Press ISBN: 978-0-9726063-1-8 Price: $17 76 pages This marvelous book, so light on all its hands and feet, so assured in the = delicacy of its unwavering precision...BELOVED INTEGER presents its visitor= s/voyagers with a complex adaptive system of memory and desire, a kind of v= isible city rich in 'variably negotiated moments of production,' in 'oceani= c felling,' in 'dialogues in solitude,' in easy energy and hard-earned matt= er, fearlessly held up to the light, which adumbrates the deepest territori= es of the heart--Laird Hunt. This is a book for impossible space. Beloveds who love each other like thi= s, for whom both language and distance are erotic, will be met by these lum= inous poems at all points. It's a delicious subject--how to speak in the f= irst place, and how to ask for something in a way that's neither negotiatio= n nor seduction. Something else. Intense expression. I am trying to desc= ribe the incredible relationship the writer has to words--phrasing, phoneme= s, possible verbs. Michelle Naka Pierce writes to us here, from a dark and= intimate architecture lined with peeling gold parchment: the letters, illu= minated, partially torn and always, always broken off.--Bhanu Kapil Michelle Naka Pierce was born in Tokyo, Japan. Currently associate profess= or at Naropa University, she has taught at Bard College and the University = of New Mexico. Her first book Tri/Via (2003) was co-authored with Veronica= Corpuz. Her poems and interviews have appeared in Traverse, Aufgabe, Inte= rlope, Shiny, Teachers & Writers, Rain Taxi, and Transformations. She live= s in Colorado with her partner, the poet Chris Pusateri. Copies may be ordered directly from the publisher Pub Lush 714 Savannah Avenue Pittsburgh PA 15221 OR=20 from Small Press Distribution: 1341 Seventh Street Berkeley CA 94710 1-800-869-7553 www.spdbooks.org =20 _________________________________________________________________ Make every IM count. Download Windows Live Messenger and join the i=92m Ini= tiative now. It=92s free.=A0 http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=3DTAGWL_June07= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:16:10 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: on a quiet Sunday morning, a tactical question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Eric-- Media Mail now starts at $2.13 for postage under the new rate hike I fought so hard against and so many remained complacent about therefore, anything below $2.13 for first class is cheaper so usually first class is cheaper, for us, always for chaps usually for one full length book of 88pgs it is also-- for anything beyond one book media is always better unless you are in the same state in which case parcel post is the best. How that is a helpful lowdown-- Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:41:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wow. So this has been happening for some time, to quite a few people. Thanks, Alison, for the legal tip--I suspected that that was the case and, though I have no desire to "go there," it's good to know for sure. I agree that Tom's original is better than the "improved" version; that's probably the case with the work of most people this has happened to. Has anyone on this list had any similar experiences with other editors? It'd be good to avoid their journals as well. Eek. One worries. Andy I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and he altered it and posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't know any better than to question his choices, though they weren't offensive enough for me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, for comparison. is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just not the done thing? as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be understood as "take it or leave it"? fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is right before I experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first encounter with langpo and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... so this one was kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating with Jesse I was aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my current work; that is, I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing with it. now that I look back at it, I like my version of the piece better. tl ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:55:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The nurse knocked at the door. My mother had instructed me to be there, waiting downstairs in the front room, far removed from the reclusion of my hermetic lair, to greet her when she arrived. I had not met this nurse. Her name, Kate, was all I knew of her, but my mother was reputed to have the best eye in the city for good help. I waited for her to knock again, but quickly heard the key turn in the door. I stood as she opened the door and let herself in. “You must be Kate.” “Stephen,” she said, resting her satchel lightly on the floor, “hello,” closing the door as lightly behind her. “I have a key. Your mother gave me a key.” She was hired for the full-time care of my father. It was a very good job for a new graduate, and there were dozens of applicants, though I had met none of them. My mother had interviewed five in considerable depth and hired Kate for a good deal more than the typical salary for new graduates going to work in hospitals, so she may have expected her work to be more demanding, but she had no more to do here than babysit my father. “Where is Dr. Shirov?” Her precipitous bill of charge was my father the famous doctor. Apprehensive, nauseous, I paused, standing still, saying nothing, staring at her like a troll. She smiled as quickly and unexpectedly as her key had turned in the door, brushing a lock of dark hair behind her ear and removing her shades, perching them on her head. They were cheap, her sunglasses, but she was dressed very well, dressed more like my mother than a new nurse. She smiled again with another disarming gesture of pursing her lips and arching her brow, “I was told he would be here.” “Yes, he’s here.” I stayed in place as she knelt slightly to pick up her satchel, anticipating the way being led to her work, but I did not move. I wanted to interrogate her, this happy stranger, but could merely ask why she was dressed like a lawyer. I felt ashamed, ready to point the way through the hall to my father and then retreat, yet again she smiled, finishing with another articulate expression. “It’s my first day on the job. I was told to dress business casual.” “This is business casual,” I said, plucking my loose collar with stoic condescension. “You look like a district attorney.” She offered another variant of genial smile as I wondered what she had been told about me, like a basilisk imposing on her. “He spits up like an infant. You’ll want to keep your suit clean.” She smiled again without strain or hesitance, jostling her satchel, “It’s in the contract. Your mother pays for dry cleaning.” “Right,” I droned idiotically, surprised by her warmth and lively face, wanting to ask her more questions, wanting to engage her with all the stupid questions of my witless warmth, charmed by her ease and light, but anything I could possibly say was already in my own mind a lugubrious echo. Then she made a quizzical, birdlike darting askance of her nose, “Stephen?” I said nothing, still gazing on her from the warmth she gave through such brief gestures, stalling another moment for my name in her voice, but a small dot of insight for the plain fact of her being there in perfect confidence of her skills, excited to start a new job, broke my gaze. I moved, finally, turning away from her and out of the front room. As she followed, the metronomic report of her heels against the hard floor was a calculated pulchritude that quelled my lingering euphoria by the end of the hallway, opening widely into my father’s den. I looked without mystique to the young nurse as she appraised my father, incapacitated. “That’s him,” I said. She glanced half away from him to murmur some indiscernible question or note surprise in the contrast from this domestic comfort to the sterilized gleam of an operating room, where no doubt she had planned through school to start a career, wondering how tending this lone invalid would make meaningful work, voicing a few muffled sounds that only the walls could understand. Soon she would have questions. I did not want to answer any of them. She had most likely read his large medical file dating from the current status all the way back. I had not read it, nor had I ever been curious to learn the greater details of my father’s condition beyond a summarized remark. And judging from Kate’s reaction, she had read his file starting from the present, working backwards through the years to an exponential height of information. It was one way or the other, and the questions remaining from either vantage were equally predictable. But I did not want to be rude. “I’ll be in the kitchen for breakfast,” I said, leaving her there, “first left as you come back,” avowing for her sake to provide from the kitchen a decent modulation of clattering noise. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:01:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: Talks to walk by In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim, I don't think your method is odd at all! And congrats on getting back to it ... Indirectly related to your idea below, I discovered an artist, Janet Cardiff, a few years ago -- she's known for her "audio tours" -- basically, you don a walkman that she's recorded onto and walk the path she's outlined, but it comes complete with her narration and sometimes visual accoutrements. Here's a link to one description: http://www.publicartfund.org/pafweb/projects/05/cardiff/cardiff-05.html Anyway, you might be onto something there -- you could use that visual talent you have and put it to use through your walk recordings, etc. Wait, I found a better description: http://www.artfocus.com/JanetCardiff.html Best, Amy Jim Andrews wrote: oddly, i've found that an interesting way of listening (on a walk or whatever) is to record it and play it back later. i've only done that a couple of times. but the results were very interesting. on hearing it later, i heard it very differently. one interprets the recording more symbolically. or i do. i tend to miss that symbolic meaning in the 'immersive' experience. i suppose it's related to the difference between hearing yourself when you're talking and hearing yourself via a recording. the latter provides a different 'point of view' or 'point of audition' than the usual one, gives us two perspectives, opens the third eye (or ear). ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:06:02 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: Talks to walk by Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 I do this a lot, especially in my parent's neighborhood in south queens: I'= ll walk through busy streets where children are playing, cars are going by,= adults are gossiping (lots of Italians!) and then I hit Charles Park to gr= eet Jamaica Bay. It's a opera in several parts. Sometimes, I'll sit near the trees in the park and hear conversations as th= e wind rushes through the leaves. Romantic, yes, but when the ears play tri= cks on you... maybe the Son of Sam was a post-modernist afterall... Christophe > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "amy king" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Talks to walk by > Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:01:35 -0700 >=20 >=20 > Jim, >=20 > I don't think your method is odd at all! And congrats on=20 > getting back to it ... >=20 > Indirectly related to your idea below, I discovered an artist,=20 > Janet Cardiff, a few years ago -- she's known for her "audio tours"=20 > -- basically, you don a walkman that she's recorded onto and walk=20 > the path she's outlined, but it comes complete with her narration=20 > and sometimes visual accoutrements. Here's a link to one=20 > description:=20=20 > http://www.publicartfund.org/pafweb/projects/05/cardiff/cardiff-05.html >=20 > Anyway, you might be onto something there -- you could use that=20 > visual talent you have and put it to use through your walk=20 > recordings, etc. >=20 > Wait, I found a better description:=20=20 > http://www.artfocus.com/JanetCardiff.html >=20 > Best, > Amy >=20 > Jim Andrews wrote: >=20 > oddly, i've found that an interesting way of listening (on a walk or > whatever) is to record it and play it back later. i've only done that a > couple of times. but the results were very interesting. on hearing it lat= er, > i heard it very differently. one interprets the recording more symbolical= ly. > or i do. i tend to miss that symbolic meaning in the 'immersive' experien= ce. >=20 > i suppose it's related to the difference between hearing yourself when > you're talking and hearing yourself via a recording. the latter provides a > different 'point of view' or 'point of audition' than the usual one, gives > us two perspectives, opens the third eye (or ear). >=20 > ja > http://vispo.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who know= s. > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > =3D Rescue Tripods & Rescue Equipment - SALE New 2007 Items Discounted, Rescue Tripods, LEADER in Rescue Equipment. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3Da285337b4d711fa053150= db7c6a8296b --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:12:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <20070703082036.37902.qmail@web36207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of that is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for one of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that always turns out to be part of the process of making the article better. On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think of intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or lightly. So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality in prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for poetry? Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:03:00 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Towson Arts Collective in Baltimore Invitation Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Hi, everyone, The Towson Arts Collective has a great space for readings and performances = in the heart of North Baltimore. This fall we're beginning a new reading se= ries - an extension of the Annual "Cruellest Month Reading Series" that bro= ught together over 150 people with 12 poets. I'd like to extend an invitation to everyone who'd be interested in reading= for the series. This is my first attempt at contacting anyone. I'm not per= sonally inviting anyone this time: I think it's necessary to entertain a br= oader spectrum of poetry since our audience is growing (a mixture of Towson= U. and Goucher U. faculty and students, and locals from Baltimore City and= County). If anyone is in Baltimore this fall, please write me. The series will be he= ld on 3rd Thursdays. We're also curating a Cabaret night on First Thursdays= (when businesses and bars stay open later) and film nights on 2nd and 4th = Thursdays. The Towson Arts Collective is also available to host workshops: there are t= wo large galleries plus a drawing studio. Anyone who's interested in reading for the fall, or wants to make a suggest= ion, please write me at cacasama@towson.edu If you're interested in teaching a workshop, please write Brian Truax for d= etails. His eMail address is towsonframinggallery@earthlink.net Thanks! Christophe Casamassima =3D San Diego Homes, Free Grant Money $50K government grant available, search homes for sale in San Diego. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D93389ac4dece5e2900875= 0872f5f85f7 --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:37:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Tod Edgerton Subject: Re: HOW2? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Actually, please post to the list (or backchannel me, too, but I'm sure others would like to know). Thanks, Tod Maria Damon wrote: hi all both of the URLs I have for HOW2 archives (bucknell and arizona) don't work. where can i access them? please backchannel! bests to all, md Michael Tod Edgerton Special Lecturer in English Providence College 549 River Avenue Providence, RI 02918-0001 medgerto@providence.edu "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:33:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <546807.47860.qm@web86002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit When I do chapbooks I give the author a headsup when they give me a solicited manuscript that I'll be marking it up pretty heavily, a whole lot of red ink. And then I'll get together with the author for a few hours to review the manuscript. All I ask is for the author to explain their choices, or simply say, at times, that they have no explanation, that that's just what they wrote. 90% of my queries go away and maybe 10% stick. I remember one time yrs ago when I offered to publish a friend's work. I designed and edited the chapbook and then we went over it. Every correction, every suggestion they said no to, with no explanation. A half an hour into this process I asked them what the name of their small press was going to be, because this wasn't going to be a boog book, that I'm an editor, not a printer. On 7/3/07 11:12 AM, "Barry Schwabsky" wrote: > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of that is > subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for one of > the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the past, so > I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it is assumed > that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved of--although > in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably more often > than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: notably, in the > magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute editorial prerogative; > esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an article is just a > suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've worked with have helped > my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into serious arguments, and they > sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think of > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality in > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for poetry? > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any political > implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to libertarianism in > the act of writing poetry?) -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Desert City: Briante & Earley, This Saturday, 07.07.07 - Greensboro MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Who: Susan Briante, author of /Pioneers in the Study of Motion/, makes three egg omelet with two eggs, straight from Texas with a chainsaw. Who: Tim Earley, author of /Boondoggle/, weaver of mouse tails, hirsute pointer. What: Desert City Poetry Series, New in Greensboro, Old as Dirt. When: 07.07.07 @ 7:00pm, This Monkey is Going to Heaven. Where: Green Hill Center for NC Art, 200 N. Davie St. Greensboro, NC, the Sparkle in the Heart of the Emerald City. Why: "Pills linger on the tongue like moths on water" "I was, for my age, spry with a hammer." See you there..... Susan Briante: http://ahsahtapress.boisestate.edu/books/briante/briante-bio.htm Tim Earley: http://www.mainstreetrag.com/T_Earley.html Green Hill Center on Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=200+n+davie+st+greensboro&sll=36.125414,-79.809687&sspn=0.003865,0.007296&ie=UTF8&ll=36.074268,-79.78898&spn=0.007735,0.014591&z=16&iwloc=addr&om=1 -- Check out my new book Key Bridge: http://www.carolinawrenpress.org/books.html Reviews of Key Bridge: Ron Silliman: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-know-ken-rumble-originally-from-his.html Mathias Svalina: http://mathiassvalina.blogspot.com/2007/03/key-bridge.html John Deming/Coldfront Magazine: http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/03/key_bridge_by_k.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:01:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Talks to walk by In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Jim: From Herodutus to Oedipus to Virgil to Dante to Chaucer to Bunyan to the Wordsworths & Coleridge to Charles Dickens ..... Any number of folks (Lisa Robertson, Rebecca Solnit, Janet Cardiff (for a good overview) Hamish Fulton, Johsua Cooper, Richard Long - (let alone folks in other mediums) people have been bringing 'the walk' on home in a multiple ways (and clearl= y there is not a 'singular right way'.) Jonathan Skinner's 'ecopoetics' journal is a good source of contemporary looking/listening & making by contemporary poets and writers. I like your description of interaction with the various forms of trail transport. Clearly as the petrol runs out, the big collisions in the world will be between bikers/skaters/walkers and birders! I can see the court cases mounting! (Ironically - in terms of a literature - a friend of mine once said, 'the cell phone is the restoration of narrative' (i.e. "I am at the baggage terminal where are you now? Close?" Response, "I am just coming off the freeway and I am practically in the terminal", etc. etc.) Oh, well, sometimes, for me anyway, if I drop some writerly insistence on making a work out of everything I do (i.e. From walks and walking) a new an= d fresh work emerges in a form that I would never have prescribed, but in a form that (retrospectively) was dictated by the 'character' of the space. Other times it can be the opposite. The imposition of a form or medium make= s the content of the walk much more interesting. Take Ron Silliman's Ketjak and Tjanting for instance where the streets really pop to life - let alone = a bunch of other kinds of reflection - out of the formulation of a strict adherence to form.=20 Stephen V Can't help myself from putting in a plug for my own new book, Walking Theory! www.junctionpress.com Stephen Vincent's work here preserves and enhances the ancient association of the foot as measure of the poetic line. In Walking Theory measure become= s metaphor: =B3...foot ever to the ground, image by image, /thought by thought= , word by word...=B2 This is the measure of the continuity of a poet=B9s life as he moves through the days, from the grief-stricken rhythms of the opening section of elegies to the more expansive tours of the San Francisco neighborhoods where he lives and works. Vincent celebrates the beauty of these familiar landscapes, as well as strange, unexpected and sometimes mundane details. In a wonderful pun that arises in the midst of the naming of spring flowers, =B3the dotted eye=B2 suggests the I of linguistic convention as the seeing, moving body=B9s eye transformed by language. Finally, in this serious play of words, the poets asks: =B3what can the poem do, walking, step-by step:=B2 and credo-like responds: =B3witness, suffer, hope.=B2 Beverly Dahlen > the responses to my post asking for suggestions on 'talks to walk by' hav= e > been really cool. thanks for those. >=20 > a wee update on that erm enterprise. >=20 > i tried it. with music. on a walk. >=20 > it was invigorating. it made me want to break out into a jog. but i'm too > stiff. just started walking about two weeks ago. and, unrelatedly, got a > cellphone/mp3 player. hence the query. >=20 > invigorating but slightly unnerving because the trail is also for bikes. = so, > as some have mentioned, it's a bit dangerous. probably too dangerous to m= ake > a habit of it. >=20 > however, not only was it invigorating; it felt good. the music with the > exercise. it was uplifting. >=20 > also, interesting how the music extended from horizon to horizon, as it > were. to the point where, upon encountering others, i had to remind mysel= f > that they were not grooving on the music. >=20 > i appreciate the points people made about the value of actually listening= to > what's going on around you, and the relevance of that point to contempora= ry > mindscapes. but, you know, even when we're 'listening', i wonder how much > gets through. >=20 > oddly, i've found that an interesting way of listening (on a walk or > whatever) is to record it and play it back later. i've only done that a > couple of times. but the results were very interesting. on hearing it lat= er, > i heard it very differently. one interprets the recording more symbolical= ly. > or i do. i tend to miss that symbolic meaning in the 'immersive' experien= ce. >=20 > i suppose it's related to the difference between hearing yourself when > you're talking and hearing yourself via a recording. the latter provides = a > different 'point of view' or 'point of audition' than the usual one, give= s > us two perspectives, opens the third eye (or ear). >=20 > ja > http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:24:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood In-Reply-To: <4689D6D5.4020104@listenlight.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "calculated pulchritude that quelled my lingering euphoria"? Bait? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse Crockett Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:56 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood The nurse knocked at the door. My mother had instructed me to be there, waiting downstairs in the front room, far removed from the reclusion of my hermetic lair, to greet her when she arrived. I had not met this nurse. Her name, Kate, was all I knew of her, but my mother was reputed to have the best eye in the city for good help. I waited for her to knock again, but quickly heard the key turn in the door. I stood as she opened the door and let herself in. "You must be Kate." "Stephen," she said, resting her satchel lightly on the floor, "hello," closing the door as lightly behind her. "I have a key. Your mother gave me a key." She was hired for the full-time care of my father. It was a very good job for a new graduate, and there were dozens of applicants, though I had met none of them. My mother had interviewed five in considerable depth and hired Kate for a good deal more than the typical salary for new graduates going to work in hospitals, so she may have expected her work to be more demanding, but she had no more to do here than babysit my father. "Where is Dr. Shirov?" Her precipitous bill of charge was my father the famous doctor. Apprehensive, nauseous, I paused, standing still, saying nothing, staring at her like a troll. She smiled as quickly and unexpectedly as her key had turned in the door, brushing a lock of dark hair behind her ear and removing her shades, perching them on her head. They were cheap, her sunglasses, but she was dressed very well, dressed more like my mother than a new nurse. She smiled again with another disarming gesture of pursing her lips and arching her brow, "I was told he would be here." "Yes, he's here." I stayed in place as she knelt slightly to pick up her satchel, anticipating the way being led to her work, but I did not move. I wanted to interrogate her, this happy stranger, but could merely ask why she was dressed like a lawyer. I felt ashamed, ready to point the way through the hall to my father and then retreat, yet again she smiled, finishing with another articulate expression. "It's my first day on the job. I was told to dress business casual." "This is business casual," I said, plucking my loose collar with stoic condescension. "You look like a district attorney." She offered another variant of genial smile as I wondered what she had been told about me, like a basilisk imposing on her. "He spits up like an infant. You'll want to keep your suit clean." She smiled again without strain or hesitance, jostling her satchel, "It's in the contract. Your mother pays for dry cleaning." "Right," I droned idiotically, surprised by her warmth and lively face, wanting to ask her more questions, wanting to engage her with all the stupid questions of my witless warmth, charmed by her ease and light, but anything I could possibly say was already in my own mind a lugubrious echo. Then she made a quizzical, birdlike darting askance of her nose, "Stephen?" I said nothing, still gazing on her from the warmth she gave through such brief gestures, stalling another moment for my name in her voice, but a small dot of insight for the plain fact of her being there in perfect confidence of her skills, excited to start a new job, broke my gaze. I moved, finally, turning away from her and out of the front room. As she followed, the metronomic report of her heels against the hard floor was a calculated pulchritude that quelled my lingering euphoria by the end of the hallway, opening widely into my father's den. I looked without mystique to the young nurse as she appraised my father, incapacitated. "That's him," I said. She glanced half away from him to murmur some indiscernible question or note surprise in the contrast from this domestic comfort to the sterilized gleam of an operating room, where no doubt she had planned through school to start a career, wondering how tending this lone invalid would make meaningful work, voicing a few muffled sounds that only the walls could understand. Soon she would have questions. I did not want to answer any of them. She had most likely read his large medical file dating from the current status all the way back. I had not read it, nor had I ever been curious to learn the greater details of my father's condition beyond a summarized remark. And judging from Kate's reaction, she had read his file starting from the present, working backwards through the years to an exponential height of information. It was one way or the other, and the questions remaining from either vantage were equally predictable. But I did not want to be rude. "I'll be in the kitchen for breakfast," I said, leaving her there, "first left as you come back," avowing for her sake to provide from the kitchen a decent modulation of clattering noise. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:16:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Howe Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <546807.47860.qm@web86002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a form I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a way that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing to compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great editors who can make my pieces "better." But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which music and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review formats, reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this case means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, compromised by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. In fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular incarnation that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing is by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to my poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to get away from all that. Best Brian H On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of that > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for one > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think of > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality in > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for poetry? > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 07:21:13 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Talks to walk by In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE and don't forget virginia woolf. gabe No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Tue, 3 Jul 2007, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Jim: > > From Herodutus to Oedipus to Virgil to Dante to Chaucer to Bunyan to the > Wordsworths & Coleridge to Charles Dickens ..... Any number of folks (Lis= a > Robertson, Rebecca Solnit, Janet Cardiff (for a good overview) Hamish > Fulton, Johsua Cooper, Richard Long - (let alone folks in other mediums) > people have been bringing 'the walk' on home in a multiple ways (and clea= rly > there is not a 'singular right way'.) > Jonathan Skinner's 'ecopoetics' journal is a good source of contemporary > looking/listening & making by contemporary poets and writers. > > I like your description of interaction with the various forms of trail > transport. Clearly as the petrol runs out, the big collisions in the worl= d > will be between bikers/skaters/walkers and birders! I can see the court > cases mounting! > > (Ironically - in terms of a literature - a friend of mine once said, 'the > cell phone is the restoration of narrative' (i.e. "I am at the baggage > terminal where are you now? Close?" Response, "I am just coming off the > freeway and I am practically in the terminal", etc. etc.) > > Oh, well, sometimes, for me anyway, if I drop some writerly insistence on > making a work out of everything I do (i.e. From walks and walking) a new = and > fresh work emerges in a form that I would never have prescribed, but in = a > form that (retrospectively) was dictated by the 'character' of the space. > Other times it can be the opposite. The imposition of a form or medium ma= kes > the content of the walk much more interesting. Take Ron Silliman's Ketjak > and Tjanting for instance where the streets really pop to life - let alon= e a > bunch of other kinds of reflection - out of the formulation of a strict > adherence to form. > > Stephen V > Can't help myself from putting in a plug for my own new book, Walking > Theory! > www.junctionpress.com > > > Stephen Vincent's work here preserves and enhances the ancient associatio= n > of the foot as measure of the poetic line. In Walking Theory measure beco= mes > metaphor: =B3...foot ever to the ground, image by image, /thought by tho= ught, > word by word...=B2 This is the measure of the continuity of a poet=B9s li= fe as > he moves through the days, from the grief-stricken rhythms of the opening > section of elegies to the more expansive tours of the San Francisco > neighborhoods where he lives and works. Vincent celebrates the beauty of > these familiar landscapes, as well as strange, unexpected and sometimes > mundane details. In a wonderful pun that arises in the midst of the namin= g > of spring flowers, =B3the dotted eye=B2 suggests the I of linguistic conv= ention > as the seeing, moving body=B9s eye transformed by language. Finally, in t= his > serious play of words, the poets asks: =B3what can the poem do, walking, > step-by step:=B2 and credo-like responds: =B3witness, suffer, hope.=B2 > Beverly Dahlen > > > > > > > > the responses to my post asking for suggestions on 'talks to walk by' h= ave > > been really cool. thanks for those. > > > > a wee update on that erm enterprise. > > > > i tried it. with music. on a walk. > > > > it was invigorating. it made me want to break out into a jog. but i'm t= oo > > stiff. just started walking about two weeks ago. and, unrelatedly, got = a > > cellphone/mp3 player. hence the query. > > > > invigorating but slightly unnerving because the trail is also for bikes= =2E so, > > as some have mentioned, it's a bit dangerous. probably too dangerous to= make > > a habit of it. > > > > however, not only was it invigorating; it felt good. the music with the > > exercise. it was uplifting. > > > > also, interesting how the music extended from horizon to horizon, as it > > were. to the point where, upon encountering others, i had to remind mys= elf > > that they were not grooving on the music. > > > > i appreciate the points people made about the value of actually listeni= ng to > > what's going on around you, and the relevance of that point to contempo= rary > > mindscapes. but, you know, even when we're 'listening', i wonder how mu= ch > > gets through. > > > > oddly, i've found that an interesting way of listening (on a walk or > > whatever) is to record it and play it back later. i've only done that a > > couple of times. but the results were very interesting. on hearing it l= ater, > > i heard it very differently. one interprets the recording more symbolic= ally. > > or i do. i tend to miss that symbolic meaning in the 'immersive' experi= ence. > > > > i suppose it's related to the difference between hearing yourself when > > you're talking and hearing yourself via a recording. the latter provide= s a > > different 'point of view' or 'point of audition' than the usual one, gi= ves > > us two perspectives, opens the third eye (or ear). > > > > ja > > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:26:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood In-Reply-To: <000001c7bd9f$7c57d850$f4954682@win.louisiana.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline dont know, decided im not smart enough On 7/3/07, Skip Fox wrote: > > "calculated pulchritude that quelled my lingering euphoria"? Bait? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Jesse Crockett > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:56 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood > > The nurse knocked at the door. My mother had instructed me to be there, > waiting downstairs in the front room, far removed from the reclusion of > my hermetic lair, to greet her when she arrived. I had not met this > nurse. Her name, Kate, was all I knew of her, but my mother was reputed > to have the best eye in the city for good help. I waited for her to > knock again, but quickly heard the key turn in the door. I stood as she > opened the door and let herself in. > > "You must be Kate." > > "Stephen," she said, resting her satchel lightly on the floor, "hello," > closing the door as lightly behind her. "I have a key. Your mother gave > me a key." > > She was hired for the full-time care of my father. It was a very good > job for a new graduate, and there were dozens of applicants, though I > had met none of them. My mother had interviewed five in considerable > depth and hired Kate for a good deal more than the typical salary for > new graduates going to work in hospitals, so she may have expected her > work to be more demanding, but she had no more to do here than babysit > my father. > > "Where is Dr. Shirov?" > > Her precipitous bill of charge was my father the famous doctor. > Apprehensive, nauseous, I paused, standing still, saying nothing, > staring at her like a troll. She smiled as quickly and unexpectedly as > her key had turned in the door, brushing a lock of dark hair behind her > ear and removing her shades, perching them on her head. They were cheap, > her sunglasses, but she was dressed very well, dressed more like my > mother than a new nurse. She smiled again with another disarming gesture > of pursing her lips and arching her brow, "I was told he would be here." > > "Yes, he's here." > > I stayed in place as she knelt slightly to pick up her satchel, > anticipating the way being led to her work, but I did not move. I wanted > to interrogate her, this happy stranger, but could merely ask why she > was dressed like a lawyer. I felt ashamed, ready to point the way > through the hall to my father and then retreat, yet again she smiled, > finishing with another articulate expression. "It's my first day on the > job. I was told to dress business casual." > > "This is business casual," I said, plucking my loose collar with stoic > condescension. "You look like a district attorney." She offered another > variant of genial smile as I wondered what she had been told about me, > like a basilisk imposing on her. "He spits up like an infant. You'll > want to keep your suit clean." She smiled again without strain or > hesitance, jostling her satchel, "It's in the contract. Your mother pays > for dry cleaning." > > "Right," I droned idiotically, surprised by her warmth and lively face, > wanting to ask her more questions, wanting to engage her with all the > stupid questions of my witless warmth, charmed by her ease and light, > but anything I could possibly say was already in my own mind a > lugubrious echo. Then she made a quizzical, birdlike darting askance of > her nose, "Stephen?" > > I said nothing, still gazing on her from the warmth she gave through > such brief gestures, stalling another moment for my name in her voice, > but a small dot of insight for the plain fact of her being there in > perfect confidence of her skills, excited to start a new job, broke my > gaze. I moved, finally, turning away from her and out of the front room. > As she followed, the metronomic report of her heels against the hard > floor was a calculated pulchritude that quelled my lingering euphoria by > the end of the hallway, opening widely into my father's den. I looked > without mystique to the young nurse as she appraised my father, > incapacitated. "That's him," I said. She glanced half away from him to > murmur some indiscernible question or note surprise in the contrast from > this domestic comfort to the sterilized gleam of an operating room, > where no doubt she had planned through school to start a career, > wondering how tending this lone invalid would make meaningful work, > voicing a few muffled sounds that only the walls could understand. > > Soon she would have questions. I did not want to answer any of them. She > had most likely read his large medical file dating from the current > status all the way back. I had not read it, nor had I ever been curious > to learn the greater details of my father's condition beyond a > summarized remark. And judging from Kate's reaction, she had read his > file starting from the present, working backwards through the years to > an exponential height of information. It was one way or the other, and > the questions remaining from either vantage were equally predictable. > But I did not want to be rude. "I'll be in the kitchen for breakfast," I > said, leaving her there, "first left as you come back," avowing for her > sake to provide from the kitchen a decent modulation of clattering noise. > -- no, really, i love you http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:18:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Grotjohn Subject: Re: HOW2? In-Reply-To: <466191.26841.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This worked for me: http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael Tod Edgerton Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:38 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: HOW2? Actually, please post to the list (or backchannel me, too, but I'm sure others would like to know). Thanks, Tod Maria Damon wrote: hi all both of the URLs I have for HOW2 archives (bucknell and arizona) don't work. where can i access them? please backchannel! bests to all, md Michael Tod Edgerton Special Lecturer in English Providence College 549 River Avenue Providence, RI 02918-0001 medgerto@providence.edu "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:27:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've had other zines including friends suggest drastic changes On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:13:59 +1000 Alison Croggon writes: > Changing a poem and publishing changes without the author's consent > is > actually a violation of an author's moral rights. Which is to say, > it's not > only unethical, but illegal, though it seems a little fuzzy in the > US. All > the same, fairly clear in this instance, I would think. > > http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/D4718204-9904-42DF-8A5C84A6482717 3D/alpha/M/ > > All best > > Alison > > On 7/3/07, Brian Howe wrote: > > > > wow, this is kind of baffling. I've never had the editor of a > poetry > > journal > > ask for revisions-- you take the poem or you don't. Although a > situation > > where an editor made certain suggestions that one could take or > leave > > seems > > like it would be fine, as long as the poem's author was engaged > with the > > process-- that's more like collaboration. I wouldn't change my > poems so > > that > > an editor would print them in a magazine, but I might change them > if an > > editor I respected offered insightful suggestions that made sense > to me. > > > > But for an editor to simply change a poem and print it without > consulting > > the author is beyond the pale. For what it's worth, I had some > poems in > > Listenlight a couple issues ago, and one of them did include a > minor > > change: > > "wangled" was printed as "wrangled." When I contacted Jesse about > the > > error, > > it was corrected immediately, and all my interactions with Jesse > were > > friendly and aboveboard. But now this... yep. It's a head > scratcher. > > > > Jesse's on this list right? Now might be a good time to chime > in... > > > > Brian Howe > > > > On 7/2/07, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > > > > > I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and he altered > it and > > > posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: > > > > > > http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ > > > > > > he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't know any > better > > > than to question his choices, though they weren't offensive > enough for > > > me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, for > comparison. > > > > > > is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just not the > done thing? > > > as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be understood as > "take it > > > or leave it"? > > > > > > fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is right before > I > > > experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first encounter > with langpo > > > and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... so this > one was > > > kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating with Jesse > I was > > > aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my current work; > that is, > > > I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing with it. > now that > > > I look back at it, I like my version of the piece better. > > > > > > tl > > > > > > --- > > > > > > original: > > > > > > jump the fence -- run out of ideas and the yard > > > > > > (Heraclitus' feet are sore from stepping in > > > the same river over and over again. -- 8/4/05) > > > > > > I've run out of ideas. > > > They're dragging the river, > > > but they won't find anything. > > > The kind of trace they look for, > > > they can't pull it up. > > > I climbed the fence > > > when no one was looking > > > and now everyone's on watch, > > > digging around for me, > > > in the wrong place. > > > > > > "You'll never fix > > > the mess you've made," > > > someone said. "You should > > > know better, what > > > were you thinking?" > > > > > > I had to get away from that, > > > get away from the petty crimes > > > I've been committing all along. > > > You think, or you ignore > > > your responsibilities, > > > and they send the State Troopers > > > out to patrol the streets, helicopters > > > hanging loud in the air > > > over your neighborhood, shake > > > the windows, wait for you to leave > > > so they can draw a bead on you. > > > > > > Someone's bound to smoke you out- > > > they can wait, have all the time > > > in the world to catch you > > > in your erroneous ways, > > > new crimes to compound > > > onto the old ones. > > > > > > So I jumped the back fence > > > and got out. > > > > > > Pretty soon they'll forget > > > who they were looking for. > > > I just hope I don't run out of ideas first. > > > > > > --- > > > > > > edited version (I provided the new title, as it framed the > "narrative" > > > better): > > > > > > fugitive > > > > > > I've run out of ideas. > > > They're dredging the river, > > > but they will find nothing. > > > The kind of trace they look for > > > they can't pull up. > > > > > > I climbed the fence > > > when nobody was looking > > > and now everyone's on watch, > > > digging around for me > > > in the wrong places. > > > > > > "You'll never fix > > > the mess you've made," > > > someone says. "You should > > > know better, what > > > were you thinking?" > > > > > > I had to get away from that, > > > get away from all the petty crimes. > > > > > > You think, or you ignore > > > responsibilities and they send the State > > > Troopers out patrolling the streets, > > > helicopters hanging loud in the night > > > over your neighborhood, shaking > > > the windows, waiting on you to leave > > > so they can draw their bead. > > > > > > Someone's bound to smoke you out. > > > They can wait, have all the time > > > in the world to trap you > > > in erring ways, new crimes > > > compounding on the old. > > > > > > So I jump the back fence > > > and get out. > > > > > > Soon they will forget > > > who they were looking for. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > > > On Behalf Of Lisa Jarnot > > > Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 21:37 > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: listenlight magazine > > > > > > hey list folks, > > > > > > a student of mine recently sent work to an online journal > called > > > Listenlight and found his work posted to the site in a much > revised > > > version (including new lines added to the poem). I wrote to the > > > editor there, Jesse Crockett, who said that he felt he had > improved > > > the poems. just wanted to send out a heads up to stay away from > this > > > one. > > > > > > best, > > > lisa jarnot > > > > > > > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:08:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit a happy ending unless she would have published it the way you wanted it... oh and i apologize to jesse for thinking he was a woman On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 01:20:36 -0700 Andy Gricevich writes: > Jesse has taken down the poem published under my name and responded > kindly and frankly to my email. Thought I should let y'all know, > rather than leave incomplete the account that took shape here > yesterday. > > all the best to all here, > > Andy Gricevich > > > --------------------------------- > We won't tell. Get more on shows you hate to love > (and love to hate): Yahoo! TV's Guilty Pleasures list. > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:51:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lauren Shufran Subject: Re: HOW2? In-Reply-To: <466191.26841.qm@web54203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit this will direct you to .both. HOW(ever) and How2: http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal//archive/ best, Lauren --- Michael Tod Edgerton wrote: > Actually, please post to the list (or backchannel > me, too, but I'm sure others would like to know). > > Thanks, > Tod > > Maria Damon wrote: hi all > both of the URLs I have for HOW2 archives (bucknell > and arizona) > don't work. where can i access them? please > backchannel! bests to > all, md > > > > Michael Tod Edgerton > Special Lecturer in English > Providence College > 549 River Avenue > Providence, RI 02918-0001 > medgerto@providence.edu > > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack > of understanding" > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge > > --------------------------------- > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet > in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:53:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <546807.47860.qm@web86002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Barry, I don't see resistance to the editing of poetry as the point. I think an editor suggesting edits to a poem or play or piece of fiction or whatever is absolutely fine. However, to edit the work and print it with the edits without consulting the author is totally unethical. There are choices to be made. An editor might accept a work, and then suggest edits. But since the work has been accepted, if the author does not agree with the edits, it should be printed as the author wishes. Or an editor might accept a work conditionally, given the edits she/he suggests take place. Then, if the author agrees, that is their choice; if the author does not agree, the work does not get printed. There may be degrees of either of these acts, but the point is to have clarity and for the author to approve whatever version of the work is actually printed. I hope that when your art criticism goes through "a fairly thorough editing process," that you are consulted (it sounds as though you are from your description) and that you have a chance to approve the edits or retract the work; or, if not, that you have agreed in advance to whatever process is in place at the journal or press. As to your question about the criterias for quality, I think we do see writing poetry as "art" making, and there is a difference between that and how we see various forms of critical writing (although there are degrees to our views of any of these forms, and I'm not sure we should lay "quality" or "value" claims on any of them). But if you see poetry as art, is there any difference between a journal editing a poem without consulting the author, and a gallery adding touches of paint here and there to an artist's painting without consulting the artist, or taking a chisel to resculpt a stone sculpture in places here and there without asking the sculptor? And wouldn't that be rather hideous? On the other hand, in terms of your question as to "collective effort," I rather think most of us send our poems to particular readers and friends whose sense of both poetry and our own work we trust, for reader's comments and suggestions. We also hear responses after public readings of our work and may take some of these into account as we write, rewrite, prepare work for publication, etc. Such activities work in similar ways to what a painter might do by inviting other painters or artists or viewers into her studio while a work is in progress, to talk about the work at hand and listen to what others have to say about it. Not that all poets or painters do this, and they may do it in different ways and to different degrees. But I would think the absolute loner who never listens to anything but his or her own muse is rather the extreme case. Charles At 08:12 AM 7/3/2007, you wrote: >I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our >poems can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, >and all of that is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. >Likewise, I edit for one of the magazines I write for, and I've >edited for other magazines in the past, so I have experience of both >sides of the relationship. Of course it is assumed that nothing is >published under my name that I haven't approved of--although in >small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably more >often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: >notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an >absolute editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the >title I give an article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most >of the editors I've worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. >We sometimes get into serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me >intensely, but even that always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative > suggestions from those who publish my poetry. They share the > assumption that to even think of intervening in another poet's work > is not something too be done easily or lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, > such as art criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas > poetry is a purely individual matter? Does it imply that we have > shared criteria for quality in prose writing while we lack any but > the most intuitive criteria for poetry? Does this presumed > difference between two kinds of writing have any political > implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) Charles Alexander Chax Press 101 W. Sixth St. no. 6 Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 520-620-1626 (Chax Press) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com http://chax.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:29:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: HOW2? In-Reply-To: <001a01c7bd96$2e72fba0$a90217ac@mbc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline seems that some of it does and some of it does not work On 7/3/07, Robert Grotjohn wrote: > > This worked for me: > > http://www.asu.edu/pipercwcenter/how2journal/ > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Michael Tod Edgerton > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:38 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: HOW2? > > Actually, please post to the list (or backchannel me, too, but I'm sure > others would like to know). > > Thanks, > Tod > > Maria Damon wrote: hi all both of the URLs I have for > HOW2 archives (bucknell and arizona) don't work. where can i access them? > please backchannel! bests to all, md > > > > Michael Tod Edgerton > Special Lecturer in English > Providence College > 549 River Avenue > Providence, RI 02918-0001 > medgerto@providence.edu > > "There's the mute probability of a reciprocal lack of understanding" > - Mei-mei Berssenbrugge > > --------------------------------- > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, > news, photos & more. > -- no, really, i love you http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:08:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: If Libby is on your mind In-Reply-To: <921CF44D-7C62-4273-8464-B517FCED4765@danhubig.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable This FYI below is not poetry, nor walking, but definitely in the political air, which seems to be beyond poetry =AD not to mention that beside Libby walking free, the Brits, Homeland Security here, etc. have tainted with suspicion every Doctor in the world who happens to be Muslim. Another stake in the ground for the Cheney/Bush/ wider war on Islam! Happy 4th of July!! ** FYI .... A few comments from an online group of Texan politicos in reaction to Bush's pardoning of Libby .... From=A0 Harold Cook, the fella who organized the Texas Demos leaving the stat= e to try to prevent DeLay's "redistricting": Good God, first that lovely Paris Hilton girl from a good family, and now this. =A0 Could you in good conscience send a guy named =B3Scooter=B2 to the slammer?? I mean, sheesh, there=B9s only so far you can kick a bar of soap. Wait =AD is tha= t why they call him =B3Scooter?=B2=A0 =A0 Plus, the existence and absolute nature of executive clemency IS law, as stated in Art. II, Sec. 2, of your handy-dandy pocket-sized United States Constitution (2nd Amendment =B3Right To Bear Arms=B2 commemorative version=8Bthe one that comes with the free NASCAR limited edition license plate frame). =A0 What? You aren=B9t carrying a copy of the Constitution with you? Why do you hate freedom?=A0 President Bush is a great American. He=B9s the decider. He=B9s a uniter, not a divider. And he=B9s also a multiplier, a subtractor and an adder.=A0 Scooter is free. Mission accomplished. Long live the Scoot-meister. Greatest patriot since Oliver North if you ask me. =A0 You must be one of those Godless commie tree-hugging dope-smokers who persists in believing that truth and justice have something to do with the =B3American way.=B2 How cute. Get with the game plan, grandpa =AD that is SO =B3September tenth.=B2 =A0 The rest of you sissy whiners can do what you want, but I, for one, am goin= g to get back to supporting our troops now. Where the hell did I put that magnetic yellow ribbon gizmo? You=B9re not gonna catch MY ass on that no-fly list, bucko! =A0From Michael Sharlot,=A0 U of Texas law School: Was it an insult to every lawyer and citizen that the Bushites did not prosecute Sandy Berger who, I am sure you will recall with outrage now as when it happened, STOLE classified documents from the national archives, destroyed them and then lied about his conduct, and got off with the loss o= f his law lisence?=A0 Why not?=A0 Also, many say Libby lied to cover for Cheney's plan to further subvert the Constitution.=A0 Why did Berger destroy those documents?=A0 No outrage? =A0 Commuting Libby's sentence is an outrage because no President has ever done such a thing?=A0 Or is it that this use of the admitted Presidential authorit= y was unjustified because Libby's crime was unforgivable in any way.=A0 This, I take it does not apply to Clinton's wholesale pardoning on the last hour of the last day of his term=A0 Mark Rich's case was, I assume, such a miscarriag= e of justice that any President would have pardoned him.=A0 Also, unlike the Libby case wthere the commutation was an ugly paoff for taking the fall to protect Chaney, the eminence grise, in the Rich case there was no =A0improper motive for clemency.=A0 The enormous contribution by Mrs. Rich to the Clinteo= n Library was simply a grateful gesture from a devoted wife to the utterly unexpected merciful action by a President of unquestioned intergrity.=A0 Or a= m I mistaken and you were equally outraged by that action?=A0 Jeff Crosby, Illustrator, NYC: Do not presume to think we thought Clinton's pardons or Berger's handslap were right.=A0 My question is, are you really saying that, because Clinton di= d similar, that it was okay for Bush to let Libby go?=A0 Bullshit. =A0 Moreover, the outrage is not just about this act but=A0a whole series of acts by the Bush administration.=A0 In terms of real and potential lawbreaking, th= e Bush administration blew past Clinton's 8 years=A0in the first year. Doug Zabel, Austin political consultant: I, for one, don't care one whit about whether or not Scooter Libby spends one day in prison, but I don't understand why Bush would commute this sentence. There are only three reasons I can think of:=A0 (1) Bush truly believes the sentence was excessive and he doesn't care that, with 80% of Americans against a pardon, it might hurt the GOP; (2) the hard-core GOP base supports a pardon (but Bush isn't running again, so why buckle to this limited contingent); or (3) Scooter was pissed at being left twisting slowl= y in the wind and was likely to spill the beans on the rest of the White Hous= e Hooligans. I vote for No. 3. P.S. -- I don't remember the Sandy Berger episode quite the way Mike describes it, but if he was guilty, he should do the time. And I absolutely opposed Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich. It was simply stupid.=A0 But in neithe= r case do I believe the pardons were intended to prevent other misdeeds from seeing the light of day, and I do believe that's what Scooter's commutation was about. By the way, the CIA has recently said that yes, Valerie Plame was a covert operative at the time of her outing. ------ End of Forwarded Message ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:50:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i've had many major changes to articles tho only one accidentally to liner notes so i stopped the articles / reviews unlress i knew there'd be no changes unless consulting me first On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:16:59 -0400 Brian Howe writes: > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, > and > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile > major, > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- > I've > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print > in a form > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work > in a way > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I > feel > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, > but > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always > willing to > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some > great > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to > which music > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review > formats, > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is > in > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, > tacitly > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in > this case > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, > more > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, > compromised > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money > from > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of > conveying > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, > it is > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has > no > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, > etc. In > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For > an > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular > incarnation > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my > writing is > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the > consumer's > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it > comes to my > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go > to get > away from all that. > > Best > Brian H > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that > our poems > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and > all of that > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I > edit for one > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines > in the > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of > course it > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't > approved > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the > breach probably > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific > exceptions: > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an > absolute > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I > give an > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the > editors I've > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get > into > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even > that > > always turns out to be part of > > the process of making the article better. > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative > suggestions from > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to > even think of > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done > easily or > > lightly. > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, > such as art > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a > purely > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for > quality in > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria > for poetry? > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have > any > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up > to > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:04:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: heidi arnold Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20070703093804.0379f750@theriver.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline this may be a somewhat oversimplified response to this thread, but it seem s to me that if the author him or herself produces the chap at each step, thot to note to image to poemz to pages to thread and so forth -- the end result cannot possibly be what you'd get from a commercial publisher -- it is a question of focusing from the level of the word thru each level of form that the physical embodiment of the chap demands -- and i have two of these in process now so whatever i'm not the expert -- this is not to discount editing or say that it is inherently, deeply evil, because in some cases the ideal reader i imagine might emerge from that process and what a significant kind of thing, but it is to say that the shape of the work or the text is altered by the commercial production process and the social valences of the different apparati that process engages, commercial, industrial, interms of kinds of readers, shelves in bookstores, portals in media, echoes in the streets and on the fields of corn, and not in all cases is that the best thing -- if you write to silence, to rupture silence in the process of production -- not sure .... sometimes yes the issue of audience and the fact that capitalism exists must be recognized and the overall social good that depends on that system, but sometimes there is revolution... my 2 cents heidi -- www.heidiarnold.org http://peaceraptor.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:20:05 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Edmund Hardy Subject: Peter Riley blog symposium In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed http://intercapillaryspace.blogspot.com/2007/07/peter-riley-blog-symposium.html "Intercapillary Space" invites you to contribute a blog post, letter, closely argued essay, postcard, diary entry, painting or some other reaction to the work of Peter Riley (as writer and editor) for a Blog Symposium planned for the week beginning on monday 8th October. This idea was prompted by the publication, earlier this year, of The Day's Final Balance: uncollected writings 1965-2006 and The Llyn Writings from Shearsman. If you are interested please email edmundhardy@hotmail.com Please forward this notice to any who may be interested. Link: http://www.aprileye.co.uk/ Peter Riley's website: who is Peter Riley, what has he published, what is his work like, what does he look like, where can I read more of him? _________________________________________________________________ Win tickets to the sold out Live Earth concert! http://liveearth.uk.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:28:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Happy Fourth, Citizens -- In-Reply-To: <11d43b500707031504o5dfed2c7qd9eb9159d5e4ff0c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A tiny note on The Great American Love Story ---> http://amyking.org/blog/ --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:41:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1e7ff3150707031116w543bf18as7cba13dd8a33fe58@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Following this discussion has made me glad Listenlght didn't accept the work I submitted. Apparently the editors didn't think my work was good enough (or malleable enough) to mutilate. Generally, I view editing as a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Its biggest value comes when somebody saves me from making a complete fool of myself. While doing music journalism 17 years ago, I did have one particularly infuriating experience. I had written an article in which I mentioned that Hartford, Connecticut had a lively jazz scene. The editor changed my copy to say the scene resembled a Far Side cartoon. I don't mind corrections being made, or modifications made so that my piece conforms to "house style." But I do object to the change in meaning, especially since I was known for speaking my mind and standing by what I said. I hung out in the jazz clubs in those years and a few musicians didn't like what I had written before this incident. I told the editor I don't mind being edited, but that I stand by what I write and I was extremely displeased with making the changes without informing me. It was a commercial paper. I watched a lot of pieces get changed with no serious reason to complain. I was getting paid. But after that incident, I wrote one more article and moved on. I've moved on from Listenlight too. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Howe Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: listenlight magazine Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a form I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a way that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing to compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great editors who can make my pieces "better." But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which music and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review formats, reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this case means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, compromised by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. In fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular incarnation that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing is by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to my poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to get away from all that. Best Brian H On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of that > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for one > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think of > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality in > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for poetry? > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:03:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: says Philip Roth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit “The ecstasy of sanctimony,” says Philip Roth, is “America's oldest communal passion [and] historically perhaps its most treacherous and subversive pleasure.” ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:24:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Didi Menendez Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May I make a suggestion as an online poetry publisher? Please stop = throwing stones at this web site. Why are you submitting your poems to a = site that does not even have guidelines? Lets move on to the next topic and next time reconsider who you are = sending your poetry to. Read the guidelines. We (editors and publishers = the same) spend a lot of time in making sure we make ourselves clear.=20 So stop throwing stones and look at what is in your hand next time and = give it to a publisher who is clear and is professional. Have a nice day. Didi Menendez (you can google me.) ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Vernon Frazer=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:41 PM Subject: Re: listenlight magazine Following this discussion has made me glad Listenlght didn't accept=20 the work I submitted. Apparently the editors didn't think my work was=20 good enough (or malleable enough) to mutilate. Generally, I view editing as a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Its biggest value comes when somebody saves me = from making a complete fool of myself. While doing music journalism 17 years ago, I did have one particularly infuriating experience. I had written an article in which I mentioned = that Hartford, Connecticut had a lively jazz scene. The editor changed=20 my copy to say the scene resembled a Far Side cartoon. I don't mind corrections being made, or modifications made so that=20 my piece conforms to "house style." But I do object to the change in meaning, especially since I was known for speaking my mind and = standing=20 by what I said. I hung out in the jazz clubs in those years and a few musicians didn't like what I had written before this incident.=20 I told the editor I don't mind being edited, but that I stand by what = I write and I was extremely displeased with making the changes without informing me. It was a commercial paper. I watched a lot of pieces get changed with = no serious reason to complain. I was getting paid. But after that = incident,=20 I wrote one more article and moved on. I've moved on from Listenlight too. Vernon=20 http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group = [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Howe Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: listenlight magazine Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, = and quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile = major, changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- = I've certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in = a form I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in = a way that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I = feel irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, = but because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always = willing to compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some = great editors who can make my pieces "better." But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which = music and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review = formats, reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is = in large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in = this case means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, = more polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, = compromised by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money = from (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of = conveying something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it = is trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, = etc. In fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For = an editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular = incarnation that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my = writing is by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes = to my poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go = to get away from all that. Best Brian H On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky = > wrote: > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our = poems > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all = of that > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit = for one > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in = the > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of = course it > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't = approved > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific = exceptions: > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an = absolute > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I = give an > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors = I've > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get = into > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even = that > always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions = from > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even = think of > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done = easily or > lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such = as art > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a = purely > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for = quality in > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for poetry? > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:44:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: once more into the...breach? birth? im trying amy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just wanted to let any interested parties know I have a baby bloglet called "Joe Brainard's Pyjamas. The link is _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) . Blog focuses on contemporary poetry and the visual arts mostly but the de rigeur kvetching will occur. Recent poems by myself, Cyril Wong, Scott Keeney and others can be found. Poems on Rae Armantrout, Robert Pinsky and others abound. Just teeming it is. I plan on publishing poetry by others here a lot so hit me up with some shiny new poetry if interested. Merci, Buffaloans ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:34:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: the cultivation of mindstates fundamental to writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com Thirteen Mental Qualities Associated with a Wholesome Mind Why Pierre Bourdieu Cannot Save Poetry Petulant Refutation of the Contention that Poetry is Agonistic Finding a Friend to Associate With Illusory Human Stuff and Other Issues Regarding Nudity Pictures from an Omnibus Reading in Chicago: Aaron Belz, Daniel Borzutsky, Gabriel Gudding, AD Jameson, Joyelle McSweeney What it Looks Like to Take Books to a Prison __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 02:15:10 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Jones Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline that's why they call it submission On 7/4/07, Didi Menendez wrote: > May I make a suggestion as an online poetry publisher? Please stop throwing stones at this web site. Why are you submitting your poems to a site that does not even have guidelines? > > Lets move on to the next topic and next time reconsider who you are sending your poetry to. Read the guidelines. We (editors and publishers the same) spend a lot of time in making sure we make ourselves clear. > > So stop throwing stones and look at what is in your hand next time and give it to a publisher who is clear and is professional. > > Have a nice day. > > Didi Menendez > (you can google me.) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Vernon Frazer > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: listenlight magazine > > > Following this discussion has made me glad Listenlght didn't accept > the work I submitted. Apparently the editors didn't think my work was > good enough (or malleable enough) to mutilate. > > Generally, I view editing as a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes it helps, > sometimes it doesn't. Its biggest value comes when somebody saves me from > making a complete fool of myself. > > While doing music journalism 17 years ago, I did have one particularly > infuriating experience. I had written an article in which I mentioned that > Hartford, Connecticut had a lively jazz scene. The editor changed > my copy to say the scene resembled a Far Side cartoon. > > I don't mind corrections being made, or modifications made so that > my piece conforms to "house style." But I do object to the change in > meaning, especially since I was known for speaking my mind and standing > by what I said. I hung out in the jazz clubs in those years and a few > musicians didn't like what I had written before this incident. > > I told the editor I don't mind being edited, but that I stand by what I > write and I was extremely displeased with making the changes without > informing me. > > It was a commercial paper. I watched a lot of pieces get changed with no > serious reason to complain. I was getting paid. But after that incident, > I wrote one more article and moved on. > > I've moved on from Listenlight too. > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Brian Howe > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:17 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: listenlight magazine > > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a form > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a way > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing to > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which music > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review formats, > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this case > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, compromised > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. In > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular incarnation > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing is > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to my > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to get > away from all that. > > Best > Brian H > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky > wrote: > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of > that > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for > one > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach > probably > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > > always turns out to be part of > > the process of making the article better. > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think > of > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > > lightly. > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality > in > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for > poetry? > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:47:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <546807.47860.qm@web86002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I have no such inhibitions as an editor of poetry, though I would never publish my revisions without the author's solid agreement. I've made numerous suggestions about almost every book published by Junction Press, and I argue hard for them. But only if I've already committed to publishing, so that the author can feel free to say no. My interest is always in the poems becoming more the author's, not to make them conform to my own practice. My authors have for the most part been pleased with the process. Then there's the case of a poem I published in my magazine of the early 70s, Broadway Boogie. I proofread, of course, but then gave the texts to the authors to proofread again. After publication one of the poets noticed a typo--a one-letter difference in a word that made it a different, plausible word. He was furious, and also frustrated that he couldn't take it out on me, as he'd sgned off on the published version. What made it worse was that the new word improved the poem--every time he complained about it someone he trusted would tell him "you know, it's pretty good this way." Years later, when he included the poem in a collection, he kept the typo. Mark At 11:12 AM 7/3/2007, you wrote: >I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our >poems can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, >and all of that is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. >Likewise, I edit for one of the magazines I write for, and I've >edited for other magazines in the past, so I have experience of both >sides of the relationship. Of course it is assumed that nothing is >published under my name that I haven't approved of--although in >small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably more >often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: >notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an >absolute editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the >title I give an article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most >of the editors I've worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. >We sometimes get into serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me >intensely, but even that always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative > suggestions from those who publish my poetry. They share the > assumption that to even think of intervening in another poet's work > is not something too be done easily or lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, > such as art criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas > poetry is a purely individual matter? Does it imply that we have > shared criteria for quality in prose writing while we lack any but > the most intuitive criteria for poetry? Does this presumed > difference between two kinds of writing have any political > implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:35:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: sanctimony: eponymous / anonymous MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Anyone to analyze a pathology? I'll give it a shot. {You're a}.{creepy motherfucker}.{who has no business}.{pretending}.{to be an editor.} 1st set -- at this, those experienced in this matter will disregard the remainder of anonymous coward's statement 2nd set -- from anonymous coward, unwitting praise 3rd set -- the sad part, revealing anonymous coward's P&L sense of self-worth in artistic endeavor and appreciation 4th set -- I have only separated this set from the 3rd set so as to avoid affording tragic sympathy upon anonymous coward 5th set -- certainly the mere opportunist filling of a stock trimetric which anonymous coward hones preconsciously It always feels good to be right. Jess Crockett ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:02:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Inventory at Ana Verse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Labels (genre markers): * autobio. (36) * bio. (7) * creative nonfiction (16) * fiction (3) * folk poetry (3) * inquiry (cult.) (12) * inquiry (lit.) (12) * list (4) * nota. (9) * nota. (art) (5) * nota. (lit.) (15) * open letter (4) * poetry (line-) (7) * poetry (prose) (7) * short story (8) * sound experiment (1) * still photo (22) * still photo (garden) (24) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:34:50 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070703193551.05eb8f50@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I've worked with editors - mostly, but not always, wonderful and generous people - as a journalist, as a poet and as a novelist. I've also worked as a subeditor on a daily newspaper, I've been poetry editor for two print mags and I also edit an internet literary magazine. So I guess I could say I've a fairly wide take on what it is. Editing in a literary, as opposed to a journalistic, context is, as far as I'm concerned, a collaborative exercise. I am incredibly grateful to the excellent editors I have worked with (and continue to work with) for what they have taught me about the discipline of writing. A good editor merely heightens your own consciousness of your work and process. When the relationship is good - and I have had ones that don't work, because collaboration is like any other other human relationship, and some fail - it makes me look a whole lot smarter than I am. I am not precious about my work: if someone points out a way that it could be better, and I know in my bones that they're right, I'll always take their advice. But advice it is, not an order, and even the best and most empathetic editors can be wrong, or can fail to understand something. From the other end, it can be a delicate business offering advice to a writer, especially someone you don't know. It can be misunderstood. The best editors always know that the final decision is the writer's, and the only time I've ever been pissed off with an editor was when she made some changes in a book after I had signed off the final proof. That was crossing a line. Like any relationship, editing only works under a condition of mutual trust. If Jesse has been misrepresented here, and has not published work that was changed without his contributors' permission, he deserves unreserved apologies. I've no direct knowledge of what has happened, and that may be the case. But if he has in fact done that, he's crossed that line, and it's not sanctimonious to say it's unethical. All best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:18:06 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070703193551.05eb8f50@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Two things: 1. I think one of the reasons that a lot of people are more willing to let their prose essays/articles be edited beyond their control is that we tend to see the subject or ideas of a prose piece as the point, whereas with poems, the words themselves are the point. 2. Didi Menendez mentioned the importance of guidelines. It does seem like a lot of this mess might have been avoided were there guidelines on the site saying that people's poetry might be appear in altered form. Since this sort of editing seems to violate social norms, it probably is primarily the editor's responsibility to explain that it will occur. Communication: it's not just for kinky sex anymore. Elizabeth Kate Switaj www.elizabethkateswitaj.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 00:19:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1e7ff3150707031116w543bf18as7cba13dd8a33fe58@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline In my view, Brian has it nailed, except that in the writing of most of my essays I do not get paid either. Ciao, Murat On 7/3/07, Brian Howe wrote: > > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a > form > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a > way > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing > to > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which > music > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review > formats, > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this > case > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, > compromised > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. > In > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular > incarnation > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing > is > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to > my > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to > get > away from all that. > > Best > Brian H > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our > poems > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of > that > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for > one > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course > it > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't > approved > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach > probably > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give > an > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > > always turns out to be part of > > the process of making the article better. > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions > from > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even > think of > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily > or > > lightly. > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as > art > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for > quality in > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for > poetry? > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:06:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: sanctimony: eponymous / anonymous MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jesse, whoever wrote that is a boor. It's exactly the kind of thing I didn't want to happen as part of this discussion. --Andy P.S. It always feels good, or terrible, to FEEL like you're right when you think everyone else thinks you're wrong, or right. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:16:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: new on chaxblog, certain slants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed New posts up on chaxblog, related to June travel and particularly the stay in Paris * Paris images * Translating Translating Broqua * books in Paris * Last Days in Studio, Thinking of Paris Soon to come (maybe this weekend): a couple of notes on the last part of our trip, including notes on Kettle's Yard in Cambridge, excellent chapbooks from Equipage in Cambridge, and more. And notes on recent books read. http://chax.org/blog.htm Also, for those who have asked about my newest book of poetry, CERTAIN SLANTS, the web site of Junction Press is now fully functioning, and it is available there. The direct link is http://junctionpress.com/books/alexander.html but please look around Junction's site to find the excellent books there by Stephen Vincent, Jose Kozer, and many others. CERTAIN SLANTS is also available from Small Press Distribution: http://www.spdbooks.org/Details.asp?BookID=9781881523161 charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 101 W. Sixth St. Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:01:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Inventory at Ana Verse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Labels (genre markers): * _autobio._ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/autobio.) (31) * _bio._ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/bio.) (7) * _creative nonfiction_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/creative%20nonfiction) (16) * _fiction_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/fiction) (3) * _folk poetry_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/folk%20poetry) (3) * _inquiry (cult.)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/inquiry%20(cult.)) (9) * _inquiry (lit.)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/inquiry%20(lit.)) (12) * _list_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/list) (4) * _nota._ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/nota.) (9) * _nota. (art)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/nota.%20(art)) (5) * _nota. (lit.)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/nota.%20(lit.)) (15) * _open letter_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/open%20letter) (2) * _poetry (line-)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/poetry%20(line-)) (7) * _poetry (prose)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/poetry%20(prose)) (7) * _short story_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/short%20story) (8) * _sound experiment_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/sound%20experiment) (1) * _still photo_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/still%20photo) (21) * _still photo (garden)_ (http://annbogle.blogspot.com/search/label/still%20photo%20(garden)) (24) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 22:49:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: the cultivation of mindstates fundamental to writing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Enjoyable through many entries. Shall work on being more like the elephant. AMB In a message dated 7/3/2007 9:21:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gmguddi@ILSTU.EDU writes: __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com Thirteen Mental Qualities Associated with a Wholesome Mind Why Pierre Bourdieu Cannot Save Poetry Petulant Refutation of the Contention that Poetry is Agonistic Finding a Friend to Associate With Illusory Human Stuff and Other Issues Regarding Nudity Pictures from an Omnibus Reading in Chicago: Aaron Belz, Daniel Borzutsky, Gabriel Gudding, AD Jameson, Joyelle McSweeney What it Looks Like to Take Books to a Prison __________________________________ http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:43:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Also, I do think Didi's remark, "Why are you submitting your poems to a site that does not even have guidelines?" is particularly USEFUL. AJ Didi Menendez wrote: May I make a suggestion as an online poetry publisher? Please stop throwing stones at this web site. Why are you submitting your poems to a site that does not even have guidelines? Lets move on to the next topic and next time reconsider who you are sending your poetry to. Read the guidelines. We (editors and publishers the same) spend a lot of time in making sure we make ourselves clear. So stop throwing stones and look at what is in your hand next time and give it to a publisher who is clear and is professional. Have a nice day. Didi Menendez (you can google me.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Vernon Frazer To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:41 PM Subject: Re: listenlight magazine Following this discussion has made me glad Listenlght didn't accept the work I submitted. Apparently the editors didn't think my work was good enough (or malleable enough) to mutilate. Generally, I view editing as a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Its biggest value comes when somebody saves me from making a complete fool of myself. While doing music journalism 17 years ago, I did have one particularly infuriating experience. I had written an article in which I mentioned that Hartford, Connecticut had a lively jazz scene. The editor changed my copy to say the scene resembled a Far Side cartoon. I don't mind corrections being made, or modifications made so that my piece conforms to "house style." But I do object to the change in meaning, especially since I was known for speaking my mind and standing by what I said. I hung out in the jazz clubs in those years and a few musicians didn't like what I had written before this incident. I told the editor I don't mind being edited, but that I stand by what I write and I was extremely displeased with making the changes without informing me. It was a commercial paper. I watched a lot of pieces get changed with no serious reason to complain. I was getting paid. But after that incident, I wrote one more article and moved on. I've moved on from Listenlight too. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian Howe Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:17 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: listenlight magazine Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a form I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a way that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing to compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great editors who can make my pieces "better." But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which music and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review formats, reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this case means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, compromised by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. In fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular incarnation that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing is by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to my poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to get away from all that. Best Brian H On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky > wrote: > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of that > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for one > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach probably > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think of > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality in > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for poetry? > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:36:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alexander Jorgensen Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think that what is most distressing, and clearly this can be felt in Lisa's email (Let's go back to that email folks!), is that changes were made and lines added to work without the author being informed - and that that author is a student who might not otherwise feel empowered to voice his/her concern. I think that's what's problematic and do not think a discussing on editing habits, however informing, co-habitats the same space as what are Lisa's remarks related to Listenlight. Too, I wonder if by not questioning the ethics of Jesse's behavior, we are in fact giving credibility to a venture and individual many of us do not know well enough to support in this way. If things are so dog-eat-dog and editing as much about an unknown variant's vanity, then I am sorry to any young poet who's looking to be initiated into this field we call poetry. And I do not think this is throwing stones! AJ Andrew Jones wrote: that's why they call it submission On 7/4/07, Didi Menendez wrote: > May I make a suggestion as an online poetry publisher? Please stop throwing stones at this web site. Why are you submitting your poems to a site that does not even have guidelines? > > Lets move on to the next topic and next time reconsider who you are sending your poetry to. Read the guidelines. We (editors and publishers the same) spend a lot of time in making sure we make ourselves clear. > > So stop throwing stones and look at what is in your hand next time and give it to a publisher who is clear and is professional. > > Have a nice day. > > Didi Menendez > (you can google me.) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Vernon Frazer > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: listenlight magazine > > > Following this discussion has made me glad Listenlght didn't accept > the work I submitted. Apparently the editors didn't think my work was > good enough (or malleable enough) to mutilate. > > Generally, I view editing as a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes it helps, > sometimes it doesn't. Its biggest value comes when somebody saves me from > making a complete fool of myself. > > While doing music journalism 17 years ago, I did have one particularly > infuriating experience. I had written an article in which I mentioned that > Hartford, Connecticut had a lively jazz scene. The editor changed > my copy to say the scene resembled a Far Side cartoon. > > I don't mind corrections being made, or modifications made so that > my piece conforms to "house style." But I do object to the change in > meaning, especially since I was known for speaking my mind and standing > by what I said. I hung out in the jazz clubs in those years and a few > musicians didn't like what I had written before this incident. > > I told the editor I don't mind being edited, but that I stand by what I > write and I was extremely displeased with making the changes without > informing me. > > It was a commercial paper. I watched a lot of pieces get changed with no > serious reason to complain. I was getting paid. But after that incident, > I wrote one more article and moved on. > > I've moved on from Listenlight too. > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Brian Howe > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:17 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: listenlight magazine > > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a form > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a way > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing to > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which music > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review formats, > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this case > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, compromised > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. In > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular incarnation > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing is > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to my > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to get > away from all that. > > Best > Brian H > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky > wrote: > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of > that > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for > one > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach > probably > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > > always turns out to be part of > > the process of making the article better. > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think > of > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > > lightly. > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality > in > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for > poetry? > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:03:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <645947.67805.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's true, I don't think a discussion about editing "cohabits the same space" as the behavior Lisa reported. In fact, that is exactly why I initiated the new discussion--because I thought it had already been made abundantly clear that just about all of us found this behavior deplorable. That having been established, it didn't seem necessay keep belaboring the point, and I thought it might be better to move the discussion on to some something that we might be able to disagree on, i.e., have an interesting debate about. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that messing with other people's poetry is a trivial matter. Alexander Jorgensen wrote: I think that what is most distressing, and clearly this can be felt in Lisa's email (Let's go back to that email folks!), is that changes were made and lines added to work without the author being informed - and that that author is a student who might not otherwise feel empowered to voice his/her concern. I think that's what's problematic and do not think a discussing on editing habits, however informing, co-habitats the same space as what are Lisa's remarks related to Listenlight. Too, I wonder if by not questioning the ethics of Jesse's behavior, we are in fact giving credibility to a venture and individual many of us do not know well enough to support in this way. If things are so dog-eat-dog and editing as much about an unknown variant's vanity, then I am sorry to any young poet who's looking to be initiated into this field we call poetry. And I do not think this is throwing stones! AJ Andrew Jones wrote: that's why they call it submission On 7/4/07, Didi Menendez wrote: > May I make a suggestion as an online poetry publisher? Please stop throwing stones at this web site. Why are you submitting your poems to a site that does not even have guidelines? > > Lets move on to the next topic and next time reconsider who you are sending your poetry to. Read the guidelines. We (editors and publishers the same) spend a lot of time in making sure we make ourselves clear. > > So stop throwing stones and look at what is in your hand next time and give it to a publisher who is clear and is professional. > > Have a nice day. > > Didi Menendez > (you can google me.) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Vernon Frazer > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:41 PM > Subject: Re: listenlight magazine > > > Following this discussion has made me glad Listenlght didn't accept > the work I submitted. Apparently the editors didn't think my work was > good enough (or malleable enough) to mutilate. > > Generally, I view editing as a 50-50 proposition. Sometimes it helps, > sometimes it doesn't. Its biggest value comes when somebody saves me from > making a complete fool of myself. > > While doing music journalism 17 years ago, I did have one particularly > infuriating experience. I had written an article in which I mentioned that > Hartford, Connecticut had a lively jazz scene. The editor changed > my copy to say the scene resembled a Far Side cartoon. > > I don't mind corrections being made, or modifications made so that > my piece conforms to "house style." But I do object to the change in > meaning, especially since I was known for speaking my mind and standing > by what I said. I hung out in the jazz clubs in those years and a few > musicians didn't like what I had written before this incident. > > I told the editor I don't mind being edited, but that I stand by what I > write and I was extremely displeased with making the changes without > informing me. > > It was a commercial paper. I watched a lot of pieces get changed with no > serious reason to complain. I was getting paid. But after that incident, > I wrote one more article and moved on. > > I've moved on from Listenlight too. > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Brian Howe > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:17 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: listenlight magazine > > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a form > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a way > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing to > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which music > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review formats, > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this case > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, compromised > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. In > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular incarnation > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing is > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to my > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to get > away from all that. > > Best > Brian H > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky > wrote: > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of > that > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for > one > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach > probably > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give an > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > > always turns out to be part of > > the process of making the article better. > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions from > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even think > of > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily or > > lightly. > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as art > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for quality > in > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for > poetry? > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > -- "[H]e who leaps into the void owes no explanation to those who watch.” (Jean-Luc Godard) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 07:31:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Loudon Subject: Sawbuck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline New poems up at Sawbuck http://sawbuckpoetry.blogspot.com/ Sarah Bartlett Mark Cunningham Noah Eli Gordon Jane Joritz-Nakagawa Robert Lietz Rebecca Loudon Matt Mullins Phillip Byron Oakes Nate Pritts Rielly Stares Cheers! Rebecca Loudon http://radishking.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:35:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <20070703.130140.1684.40.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Alison Croggon > Changing a poem and publishing changes without the author's consent > > is actually a violation of an author's moral rights. Which is to say, > > it's not only unethical, but illegal ...< I've got no dog in this fight, but this kind of muzzy-headed thinking is amazing. Moral rights and legal rights are two different things. I agree that changing a poet's poem without his or her approval is a violation of the author's moral rights, but unless there's a law against it, it is NOT illegal. Is Alison asserting there is a law against it? Cite the legal code, then, not the moral right. And asserting that something is illegal when it is instead unethical is a dangerous business, because even muzzier-headed people might think it's true. Furthermore, all this talk of rights and legality and contracts regarding the publication of poems -- what bullshit. Are there really people so harmed by how their poems were presented that they sue? Are there really publishers so harmed by a poem appearing in some other magazine or book that they sue? Is there so much money sloshing around in the poetry business that people are at each others' legal throats constantly, wrangling to get the best deal to make the most money? It's crap. The poetry business is a gift economy. No one makes any money in it. And if they did, if there were markets for poetry then all the rules for editing prose would apply, as Mr Howe has suggested they apply. If you were getting paid for your poems you'd have LESS, not more, ability to say what got printed, just as when you're paid for a review or other prose piece, you expect it will be edited for length, content, and they're likely to change the title. Is that what you WANT in the poetry business? To get paid enough so that editors can cut your poem, rearrange the stanzas or paragraphs, have a re-write person add to it, change the title, and so forth? Get real. The only reason poets can mouth off in such silly fashion is that no one gives a rat's ass what a poet says or does. Poetry is the medium in which you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is listening. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 16:14:49 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707032119x2ddc847fyb577247206ab5f1a@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would disagree, though, that "sturdier structure and more lucid language, more polished, etc." is merely a reflection of "compromise" with the market. When I do this kind of writing, I do so not submissively or cynically--not as a compromise--but as an exercise in a certain type of writing that has its own value, just as the other sorts of writing that I do, such as poetry, have their own, distinctive values. One could just as easily say that the "market" for poetry (a market in which the payment is not money but mere appearance) values ambiguity, rawness, lyricism, etc., and that anyone who writes poetry with such qualities is "compromising" with the poetry market. Also, with respect to my particular field of art criticism, one is not acting as a consumer advocate. Not to say that what we do is unrelated to the market--far from it--but in a different, less direct way. Only a tiny proportion of the readership of Artforum can actually afford to buy art (although of course the publishers might like the advertisers to imagine that the opposite is the case)--many more of them are artists, or even art students, than collectors. Speaking of markets, by the way, everyone should read a book by a Dutch economist who is also a practicing artist--"Why Are Artists Poor?" by Hans Abbing, published by University of Amsterdam Press. Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: In my view, Brian has it nailed, except that in the writing of most of my essays I do not get paid either. Ciao, Murat On 7/3/07, Brian Howe wrote: > > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, and > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a > form > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a > way > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I feel > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing > to > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some great > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which > music > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review > formats, > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this > case > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, > compromised > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of conveying > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, etc. > In > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular > incarnation > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing > is > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes to > my > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to > get > away from all that. > > Best > Brian H > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our > poems > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of > that > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for > one > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course > it > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't > approved > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach > probably > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I give > an > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors I've > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that > > always turns out to be part of > > the process of making the article better. > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions > from > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even > think of > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily > or > > lightly. > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as > art > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a purely > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for > quality in > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for > poetry? > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:19:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: poetry books for sale MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have poetry books to sell and would like to know a good venue or method for doing so. a garage sale will take care of the other genres but poetry, ah, not so commercially viable. we're moving and don't have quite as much storage plus would welcome a few less boxes to haul. perhaps proceeds can help finance the move bit, too. the collection consists mainly of a varied range of contemporary work, quite toothsome. this is your opportunity to perform backchannel procedures, or you can dole out the info front channel. I welcome any clues. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:07:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlotte Mandel Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468B780D.30238.19C98C4C@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: "Poetry is the medium in which you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is listening." So true, Marcus! May I quote you? Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:51:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ixnay Press Subject: ixnay press call for work MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hello, We're currently reading submissions for the third volume of "the ixnay reader," a yearly perfect-bound journal. We'll be reading submissions until July 31st. Up to 10 pgs of work can be sent to this email address (ixnaypress@verizon.net) or to our snail mail address: ixnay c/o McCreary 1328 Tasker Street Philadelphia PA 19148 The first two issues of the "reader" can be found as free pdfs on our new website, www.ixnaypress.com. Note that the "reader" tends to focus on a relatively small number of writers but gives each writer quite a bit of space. Any questions? Please drop a line. Thanks muchly. Chris McCreary / co-editor, ixnay press ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:26:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Tobin Subject: Re: poetry books for sale In-Reply-To: <468BD6A4.7070208@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you're in NYC, bring 'em down to Unnameable Books: We buy and sell used and new books, and we like good poetry. (We're at 456 Bergen St., btw. 5th Ave. and Flatbush, in central Brooklyn. See www.unnameablebooks.net for more details) If you're not in NYC, you might have a hard time finding a used bookstore that appreciates the value of good poetry, but one might be very glad for your collection... , Adam Tobin -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Allen Bramhall Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:20 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: poetry books for sale I have poetry books to sell and would like to know a good venue or method for doing so. a garage sale will take care of the other genres but poetry, ah, not so commercially viable. we're moving and don't have quite as much storage plus would welcome a few less boxes to haul. perhaps proceeds can help finance the move bit, too. the collection consists mainly of a varied range of contemporary work, quite toothsome. this is your opportunity to perform backchannel procedures, or you can dole out the info front channel. I welcome any clues. Allen ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 19:29:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: thom donovan Subject: Peace On A Presents: Urayoan Noel & special guests @ 6th & B Community Garden In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Peace On A presents Urayoan Noel & special guests Sunday, July 8th 2007 4PM recommended donation: $5 curated by Paolo Javier & Thom Donovan at: 6th & B Community Garden @ 6th St. and Avenue B http://www.6bgarden.org/july2007.htm about the readers: Urayoan Noel is the author of *Kool Logic* / *La Lógica Kool* (Bilingual Press)—a “books of 2006” selection by the Puerto Rican newspaper El Nuevo Día—as well as two volumes of poetry in Spanish: the post-industrial object-book *Las Flores del Mall(2000) and *Boringkén*, which is forthcoming with spoken-word cd from Ediciones Callejón. He has performed throughout the U.S. and Puerto Rico, as well as in the Dominican Republic and Perú, and his rock/ spoken-word collaborations with composer Monxo López are featured on the dvd *Kool Logic* sessions. His essays, articles, interviews, reviews, and translations of Latin American and Latino poets have appeared or are forthcoming in Rattapallax; Rain Taxi; Mandorla; Teachers and Writers; and Centro: Journal of the Center for Puerto Rican Studies, and he is currently completing, with Guillermo Rebollo-Gil, a bilingual anthology of Puerto Rican poetry since the 1960’s for Terranova Editores. Originally from San Juan, Puerto Rico, he is a doctoral candidate in Spanish and Portuguese at NYU and lives in the South Bronx, where he co-directs the arts organization ‘spanic Attack and fronts the sometimes rock band El Objeto (Opa, Objet Petit A). Double (Consciousness) Dactyl Higgledy Piggledy Booker T. Washington Screamed “Up from Slavery!” Making some noise Wrote a polemical Autobiography Dog-eared by W. E.B. DuBois. Peace On A is an events series devoted to emergent work by writers, artists, performers and scholars. Past presenters at Peace on A include Alan Gilbert, E. Tracy Grinnell, Cathy Park Hong, Paolo Javier, Robert Kocik, Wayne Koestenbaum, Douglas Martin, Eléna Rivera, David Levi Strauss, Andrew Levy, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, Sasha Steensen & Charles Valle. Scroll down Wild Horses of Fire weblog (whof.blogspot.com) for back advertisements, introductions and reading selections. “*Here*, you said and say, is where we are. Give back what we are, these people you made, *us*, and nowhere but you to be.” ~ Robert Creeley ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 17:24:23 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [esulaalu@hotmail.com: sentinel issue #55] Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Sentinel Poetry (Online) #55, July 2007 is now live, featuring Guest Poet Peter Van Toorn, Guest Artist Steve Slimm, and poets Paul Ainsworth, Matthew Martin, and Obemata. There are three interviews with Toorn, Slimm and Pius Adesanmi. see www.sentinelpoetry.org.uk or www.sentinelpoetry.org.uk/0707 Amatoritsero -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 14:13:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: poetry books for sale In-Reply-To: <468BD6A4.7070208@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline good luck! you can try amazon; you might sell one or two books; you can donate to a local library for a tax deduction -- generally don't just drop them off -- they'll pitch them or resell them at a used book sale, donate as a special collection -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:53:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <546807.47860.qm@web86002.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed love to see ant listers in the woodstock area. i read at the colony at 7 . susan maurer >From: Barry Schwabsky >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: listenlight magazine >Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 16:12:36 +0100 > >I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our poems >can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of that >is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit for one >of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in the >past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of course it >is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't approved >of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach >probably more often than I remember, and there are certain specific >exceptions: notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an >absolute editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I >give an article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors >I've worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into >serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even that >always turns out to be part of > the process of making the article better. > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions >from those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even >think of intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done >easily or lightly. > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as >art criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a >purely individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for >quality in prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria >for poetry? Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have >any political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to >libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:13:38 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jill Jones Subject: i-outlaw 2.6 is new In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i-Outlaw 2.6 featuring Annie Finch You can listen to it at http://i-outlaw.blogspot.com/ i-Outlaw version 2.6 also features poetry by: Aaron Belz Emma Barnes Jill Jones Andrew Burke Jim Goar Lisa Gordon Lewis LaCook Amanda Laughtland Rebeka Lembo Ashraf Osman ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 03:43:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: two short male mov(I)es MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed two short male mov(I)es http://www.asondheim.org/bandwidthdilemma.mov sqrt ( equations of form y = sqrt(tan(a-b*x^2), a and b constants ) usual scattered geometricized grid as equation collapses from below, also from above, given the specific style of the display. nothing can be obtained from this except the equations are soaked. here is one version of the linear male collapsing when faced with the real. http://www.asondheim.org/jet6.mov squIrt perhaps phallocentric, certain the axis scattering what otherwise would harden itself against any potential, well, bound by equations, restoration. so when the continuing stream is examined closely, beyond the artificial repetition of the loop, the turbulence that results conjures up an inexhaustible universe. here is one version of the male dynamo fucking the stars. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:42:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Exhibit at Our 4th Annual Small Press, Indie Records, and Crafts Fair Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward -------------------- Exhibit at Boog City=B9s 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair (with Indie Records and Crafts, too) Sat. Aug. 4, 11:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. at day 3 of Welcome to Boog City poetry and music festival (complete fest info below) Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) NYC $20 for a table =20 email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG (2664) Featuring 15 on the 15=B9s, a 15-minute musical performance each hour on the 15=B9s by: Robert Kerr at 11:15 a.m. 12:15 p.m. 1:15 p.m. Sean T. Hanratty at 2:15 p.m. 3:15 p.m. 4:15 p.m. Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote the book and lyrics for the short musical "The Sticky-Fingered Fiancee" and the songs for his plays "Kingdom Gone" and "Meet Uncle Casper" as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations "Bearskin" and "The Juniper Tree." He was also a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your shower= , by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly enchanting songs in the shower, of course... ------------------ *Welcome to Boog City 4 Days of Poetry and Music Thurs. Aug. 2/ ACA Galleries Fri. Aug. 3/ Sidewalk Cafe Sat. Aug. 4/ Cakeshop Sun. Aug. 5/ Bowery Poetry Club with readings from: David Baratier Sean Cole John Coletti Tom Devaney Greg Fuchs Joanna Fuhrman Tony Gloeggler Nada Gordon Mitch Highfill Brenda Iijima Eliot Katz Amy King Mark Lamoureux Kimberly Lyons Gillian McCain Simon Perchik Wanda Phipps Kristin Prevallet Lauren Russell Nathaniel Siegel Rachel M. Simon Christina Strong Gary Sullivan Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater Ian Wilder Daniel Zimmerman and more and music from: Dr. Benstock The Drew Gardner Flash Orchestra I Feel Tractor The Leader Rachel Lipson Nan & the Charley Horses The Passenger Pigeons (formerly The Sparrows) and more and The Fugs album, The Village Fugs, performed by Paul Cama, Steve Espinola, I Feel Tractor, JUANBURGUESA, and Scott MX Turner Sat. 8/4 at Cakeshop Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum For more info: 212-842-BOOG (2664) * editor@boogcity.com -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:55:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Featuring its clutch lineup --- is laughing at you --- this trite, meaningless sanctimony --- but willing to offer a rematch. http://listenlight.net Editor Jess Crockett ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:23:10 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I hope we all appreciate Charlotte's irony. Wystan =20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mandel Sent: Thursday, 5 July 2007 4:07 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: listenlight magazine On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: "Poetry is the medium in which you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is listening." So true, Marcus! May I quote you? Charlotte ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 01:51:02 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andrew Jones Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline there is no one forbidden to sing On 7/4/07, Charlotte Mandel wrote: > On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > "Poetry is the medium in which you have the freedom to say what > you please because no one is listening." > > So true, Marcus! May I quote you? > Charlotte > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:05:54 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468B780D.30238.19C98C4C@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This is also crap. I made a distinction between journalism and literature. I write journalism (I am a theatre reviewer for the Australian, a daily national newspaper) and I do not expect my deathless prose to be published unchanged as a journalist, sure. That's why I don't have a lot of respect for it. And I also make my living by writing commercial literature (ie books that have sold upwards of 100,000 copies) as well as poetry. In those books, I write what I decide, and the final edit is up to me, just as in poetry. My right to have final say over the text is covered in the contract. And that's standard. A On 7/5/07, Marcus Bales wrote: > > If you were getting paid for your poems you'd have LESS, not > more, ability to say what got printed, just as when you're paid for a > review or > other prose piece, you expect it will be edited for length, content, and > they're > likely to change the title. Is that what you WANT in the poetry business? > To > get paid enough so that editors can cut your poem, rearrange the stanzas > or > paragraphs, have a re-write person add to it, change the title, and so > forth? > > Get real. The only reason poets can mouth off in such silly fashion is > that no > one gives a rat's ass what a poet says or does. Poetry is the medium in > which > you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is listening. > > Marcus > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:43:54 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Marcus, please don't display your ignorance so boorishly. "Moral rights" is a legal term, and linked to copyright, as you would realise if you had followed the link in my email. As I also said, it seems they don't exist in the US; but they certainly exist - as a legal category - in other places, and in the US they are covered by copyright. So who's talking about suing? I wasn't. A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 18:13:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <328751.26858.qm@web36203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Lisa, Andy,Alex, Barry, etal, I was writing a long response to the question of editing. A section of it, = I think, was sent to the list prematurely by mistake. I decided not to finish writing it. But since the discussion is still going on, here is what I was intending to post: "Editing" is the norm in mainstream publications. And if you object to it you are being unreasonable or unprofessional. There is a logic to that situation. Mainstream publications need to make money, and their editors do believe they know what their readerships will find acceptable. The issue ha= s little to do with good or bad (though the editor may think it does) but a communality of taste. Since in the publication of a poem profit is not often an issue, the developed conventions are often different. The choice basically occurs in the acceptance or rejection of a poem for publication. I had occasional examples of editorial "input" or "interference" throughout my writing life, all except for the first one during the publication of books. My first ever publication of a translation (except in college) was for a Turkish issue of The Literary Review over thirty years ago. The edito= r who had "discovered" me, and thought I would be a great translator, completely butchered a translation of mine (Cemal S=FCreya's "In Your Country") of which I was and still am very proud. I remember sitting next t= o him, downing shots after shots of scotch, and saying yes to all his suggestions (no e-mails at that time). I felt absolutely sick. At the publication of the Eda anthology thirty-five years afterwards, I used my version. A poet friend of mine, who independently had known the earlier version, commented what great improvements I had made in the poem in its re-writing. Well... I told him what happened. The guest editor of The Literary Review issue started accepting my translations with no changes within two or three months, after seeing me translate Metin Eloglu's "The Address of Turkey," which he had believed to be untranslatable. "In Your Country" has other sides to its editorial history. The Literary Review version was re-edited, this time by another editor, for The Penguin Anthology of Turkish Verse, which came out in mid 1970's. My own version of "In Your Country" also appears in totality in my long poem, "Turkish Voices," this time its stanzas re-arranged and dispersed throughout the poem. In this case, "editing" becomes a re-reading, opening the poem to another, previously unwritten, text. "Turkish Voices" experienced a greater respect from the editors. Robert Hershon, the editor of Hanging Loose Press, wanted to publish the poem the moment he heard me read the first third of it at The Poetry Project in 1990= . The "editorial board" kept the manuscript for about three months, at one point asking me to write a letter explaining the poem. Finally, the board rejected the poem, saying it was too "chaotic." Of course it was, gloriousl= y so; I had spent endless months trying to obtain that quality. (The Hanging Loose board had the respect not to ask me or offer me to edit the poem.) Most of the pieces in it have appeared in magazines, The Exquisite Corpse, World, Trembling Ladders, Talisman, etc., including one third in the web); = I suppose the poems in isolation, not as a single poem, give up their quality of chaos. My adventures with Hanging Loose editors had been less drastic in the publication of "I, Orhan Veli" in 1889. Hanging Loose selected about eighty percent of the Orhan Veli poems I presented to them. They kept the poems exactly in the order I presented them in the manuscripts. In two or three poems, the copy editor (I think it was Dick Lourie) changed half a line. I thought the changes were improvements and accepted them with no difficulty. The remaining 20% of the Orhan Veli translations not in the original book were published by Trembling Ladders in Australia ten years ago. The majorit= y of the same poems were re-published in the most recent issue of Talisman, i= n 2007. When Sun and Moon Press published the translations of Ece Ayhan's "A Blind Cat Black and Orthodoxies," the editor Douglas Messerli kept the texts of the translations completely intact. In the four to five page Afterwords, which I wrote for the book, he removed the subtitles into which the Afterwards was divided. In my essays, I have the tendency to use subtitles in critical junctures, often involving an unexpected shift of direction, a deflection, like the deflection from a stick half dipped in water. The Afterwords was partially an expository piece, and Douglas felt the subtitle= s were unnecessary. In the publication of "The Peripheral Space of Photography" by Green Integer, the text was left intact. I remember in two or three places, he suggested that I re-write the sentence because what I wanted to say was not clear. I followed his advice. In these instances, I have tried to show how a trust develops (or must develop) from the publisher (editor) in the integrity, rightness of what th= e writer/poet is doing. In these cases, of course, financial considerations are less paramount, and, most often, the publisher and editor are the same person. (In the bigger, mainstream publishing houses, the functions are split, weakening the aesthetic impulse, the aggressive element of editorial choice.) Here, I will go even a step further: if a publisher commits to publish a poet (writer), the commitment must be to all this poet's work, with no editorial selection.This idea, which may seem strange, has two basi= c reasons. First, "editorial selection" implies that a poet's work consists o= f individual pieces. In my view, a poet's real achievement is in its totality= , the explorations, the obsessions, the solutions which run through his or he= r work. In that way, a more powerful poet's "failures" are more interesting and absorbing and revealing that a lesser poet's successes. Second, finding a publishing "home" releases a lot of energy for a poet, both chronological and mental, creating a room of silence "of one's own" in which writing can more easily occur. The argument that every work, including poems (except when "first thought is best thought"), needs editing is unconvincing. Most poets have already edited (by spending endless hours) their poems before offering them to a publisher. The question is who is doing the editing. My proposal (I admit, not particularly modest) may first appear to be takin= g away power, disenfranchising editor/publishers. The very reverse is true. The power becomes strategic, rather than technical, focused around an aggressive choice on the totality of a poet, which is a visionary act, rather than on individual lines or poems. If one considers historically, on= e remembers those editors who made those choices or failed to make them, for example, Mrs. Shakespeare with "Ulysses" or Maddox Ford, who decided to publish D.H. Lawrence after having read only the first paragraph of one of his short stories. Or, one can think of Andre Gide, who rejected Marcel Proust's "A La Recherche"; I suppose he found the first paragraph of "Swann's Way" completely uneditable. Or think of "Moby Dick," a totally "bad" novel by any public standard of that time. In fact, "Moby Dick" is th= e eternal bad novel, with all its endless lists and so few, oh so few, visionary narrative moments. Did the publishers of "Typee" and "Omoo" publish "Moby Dick" or reject it? I was planning to bring in a few more points I had on mind, but this is enough; I have a few other things to do. I am not a scholar. I would like t= o know more about the changing meaning and position of editor (or publisher) through history. I would appreciate any comments along those lines. Happy fourth of July, or whatever is left of this decrepit, sad and worn ou= t concept. Ciao, Murat On 7/2/07, Andy Gricevich < ndm_g@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Wow. So this has been happening for some time, to > quite a few people. > Thanks, Alison, for the legal tip--I suspected that > that was the case and, though I have no desire to "go > there," it's good to know for sure. > > I agree that Tom's original is better than the > "improved" version; that's probably the case with the > work of most people this has happened to. > > Has anyone on this list had any similar experiences > with other editors? It'd be good to avoid their > journals as well. > > Eek. One worries. > > Andy > > > > > > I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and > he altered it and > posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: > > http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ > > he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't > know any better > than to question his choices, though they weren't > offensive enough for > me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, > for comparison. > > is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just > not the done thing? > as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be > understood as "take it > or leave it"? > > fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is > right before I > experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first > encounter with langpo > and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... > so this one was > kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating > with Jesse I was > aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my > current work; that is, > I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing > with it. now that > I look back at it, I like my version of the piece > better. > > tl > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ___________ > Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's > Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. > http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 00:07:07 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70707041346i1b01209bjef1e3fb95e0fb292@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline THE FIRST NOISE No, it is not the intonation It is not the rhythm Not even the meaning. It is the word by itself Mouthless. And who would ever care about What the poet says? What matters is the ritual The metaphor of what we've always been The memory of the first vocal sound "the secret language of the birds of the first day" Today's man is out of tune He has forgotten the words. Someone stammers something And everyone arrives, it's the ritual The transition Memory, the substitution, The endless metaphor What strange analogy is man? The poet says nothing But a living being comes out of his throat Invisible, having only sound And an ancient music. We remember then the original sound The first sound in the world When the word became blood And collective food. With time came verses But the birds no longer cared about it The poet speaks, sings or prays And wants to name the world In all forms. He invokes the spirits And calls the other "I will people myself with voices," he says, and turns to his metaphor which is of fire. But the word keeps silent The word is the grandfather of the species The word is sense It is power and walking stick. (c) =C1lvaro Mar=EDn (c) Translation: 2007, Nicol=E1s Suesc=FAn On 7/4/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > Yes, very tempting indeed, to quote Marcus - that is what I mean. > > On 7/4/07, Charlotte Mandel wrote: > > On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > > > "Poetry is the medium in which you have the freedom to say what > > you please because no one is listening." > > > > So true, Marcus! May I quote you? > > Charlotte > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:46:43 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Yes, very tempting indeed, to quote Marcus - that is what I mean. On 7/4/07, Charlotte Mandel wrote: > On Jul 4, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Marcus Bales wrote: > > "Poetry is the medium in which you have the freedom to say what > you please because no one is listening." > > So true, Marcus! May I quote you? > Charlotte > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:43:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Howe Subject: Re: says Philip Roth In-Reply-To: <468AD5B2.5010003@listenlight.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sanctimony aside, I think all anyone really wanted was to understand what, on the surface, is an inscrutable and possibly shady situation. Perhaps there's no intentional shadiness whatsoever, I'm open to that possibility. As I said, my personal experience with Listenlight was positive. Lacking any meaningful contribution from Listenlight's editor to this discussion, though, we've only some startling allegations to go on. A little transparency might help to dispel those shadows. Or maybe it's all a wind-up. Now I'm thinking about starting a new poetry journal called DEUS EX MACHINA-- I'll add a scene where Predator shows up and decimates everyone/thing with unstoppable alien weapons at the end of each published poem. ;) Brian On 7/3/07, Jesse Crockett wrote: > > "The ecstasy of sanctimony," says Philip Roth, is "America's oldest > communal passion [and] historically perhaps its most treacherous and > subversive pleasure." > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:11:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468B780D.30238.19C98C4C@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit US Copyright law is laid out in title 17 of the US Common Code of Law. In chapter 1 Section 106, it makes very clear that it is the exclusive right of a copyright holder to reproduce copies of the copyrighted work and to prepare derivative works based on the copyrighted work. Editing a poem and printing the edited version without the author's agreement is a violation of both rights, hence illegal. Marcus Bales wrote: > Alison Croggon >>> Changing a poem and publishing changes without the author's consent >>> is actually a violation of an author's moral rights. Which is to say, >>> it's not only unethical, but illegal ...< >>> > > I've got no dog in this fight, but this kind of muzzy-headed thinking is amazing. > > Moral rights and legal rights are two different things. I agree that changing a > poet's poem without his or her approval is a violation of the author's moral > rights, but unless there's a law against it, it is NOT illegal. Is Alison asserting > there is a law against it? Cite the legal code, then, not the moral right. And > asserting that something is illegal when it is instead unethical is a dangerous > business, because even muzzier-headed people might think it's true. > > Furthermore, all this talk of rights and legality and contracts regarding the > publication of poems -- what bullshit. Are there really people so harmed by > how their poems were presented that they sue? Are there really publishers so > harmed by a poem appearing in some other magazine or book that they sue? > Is there so much money sloshing around in the poetry business that people > are at each others' legal throats constantly, wrangling to get the best deal to > make the most money? It's crap. The poetry business is a gift economy. No > one makes any money in it. And if they did, if there were markets for poetry > then all the rules for editing prose would apply, as Mr Howe has suggested > they apply. If you were getting paid for your poems you'd have LESS, not > more, ability to say what got printed, just as when you're paid for a review or > other prose piece, you expect it will be edited for length, content, and they're > likely to change the title. Is that what you WANT in the poetry business? To > get paid enough so that editors can cut your poem, rearrange the stanzas or > paragraphs, have a re-write person add to it, change the title, and so forth? > > Get real. The only reason poets can mouth off in such silly fashion is that no > one gives a rat's ass what a poet says or does. Poetry is the medium in which > you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is listening. > > Marcus > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 09:19:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I tried to post this one early yesterday evening, but it didn't make it through somehow: I'm sure that's good advice, Didi, and I'll take it in general from now on. I sent stuff in because I liked the writing I found in the magazine and the look of it. Alex, it's not just Lisa's student. I knew that this wasn't ok the moment I looked at the magazine, and immediately wrote to the editor to ask what was up. I didn't write anything about it here until it became clear that the lack of response was more than a matter of his not being able to get online, or some such thing. If you look at back issues of the magazine, you'll find some fairly well-established poets there... the picture of naive and not-yet-empowered beginners submitting their work to a mysterious online entity isn't really accurate. In reply to some of the other comments, most of what needs to be said has been, but: There's a major difference between the question of how we think about editing in relation to our poems and the question of basic tact and respect, and it's important not to blur that difference. I love editing--it's a central part of composition for me, not at all an afterthought. When I think the various stages of editing and rewriting are done, I like showing the work to people whose judgment I trust (including some who I know will make suggestions counter to some of my intentions, whose aesthetic doesn't match mine), seeing what they'll suggest, scratch out, scratch their heads at, or appreciate that I hadn't noticed. I take some suggestions, including some counterintuitive ones, and not others. My work isn't sacred in any way, but I do spend a lot of time (on most poems, not all) considering it in all its details from a lot of angles, on many scales. I also assume that the poetry I read has had the same kind of care brought to it, even though I know that isn't true in the case of some writing I love and admire (say, O'Hara's, which manifests a different kind of care in a different method). In any case, I think poets should be treated as if they've thought about how they want their poems to be. If someone (maybe anyone!) handed me a radical rewrite of something I'd written, I'd probably be interested, or even flattered, before I'd be offended. Someone publishing it that way without informing me is a different story, and can--functionally, not necessarily psychologically--only add up to disrespect or thoughtlessness. The fact that such an act is never acceptable is to be distinguished sharply from the possibility that the editor is an intelligent person with good intentions who cared enough, in his or her way, to put in the work that resulted in the uninvited edit. cheers, Andy ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:57:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ric royer Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <386599.56979.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Jesse never contacted me at all about altering my work, but after reading this thread and checking the site, I discovered that he has indeed altered spacing, punctuation and one word change on poems submitted last year. He didnt even ask, he just changed it and published! Who is this guy? I cant help thinking its a bit funny, but I guess its serious if you take this stuff seriously. re checking the guidelines etc, its no excuse to not send somebody work because they dont post guidelines, it just communicates (at least to me) what type of work to send. In other words, Im not surprised, I didnt send anything I would consider my best work, just work that had yet to find a home. But I do appreciate this thread and I dont think Jesse should be "editing" anything. Seems like he would rather be writing more anyway... ric >From: Barry Schwabsky >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: listenlight magazine >Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 16:14:49 +0100 > >I would disagree, though, that "sturdier structure and more lucid >language, more polished, etc." is merely a reflection of "compromise" with >the market. When I do this kind of writing, I do so not submissively or >cynically--not as a compromise--but as an exercise in a certain type of >writing that has its own value, just as the other sorts of writing that I >do, such as poetry, have their own, distinctive values. One could just as >easily say that the "market" for poetry (a market in which the payment is >not money but mere appearance) values ambiguity, rawness, lyricism, etc., >and that anyone who writes poetry with such qualities is "compromising" >with the poetry market. > > Also, with respect to my particular field of art criticism, one is not >acting as a consumer advocate. Not to say that what we do is unrelated to >the market--far from it--but in a different, less direct way. Only a tiny >proportion of the readership of Artforum can actually afford to buy art >(although of course the publishers might like the advertisers to imagine >that the opposite is the case)--many more of them are artists, or even art >students, than collectors. > > Speaking of markets, by the way, everyone should read a book by a Dutch >economist who is also a practicing artist--"Why Are Artists Poor?" by Hans >Abbing, published by University of Amsterdam Press. > >Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > In my view, Brian has it nailed, except that in the writing of most of >my >essays I do not get paid either. > >Ciao, > >Murat > > >On 7/3/07, Brian Howe >wrote: > > > > Good question. I'm a professional music and arts journalist by trade, >and > > quite often see my pieces go to print with minor, once in awhile major, > > changes. Often I have approved these changes beforehand and made > > counter-changes to suit my editor, but this isn't always the case-- I've > > certainly had the experience of seeing a piece of mine go to print in a > > form > > I barely recognize. When I feel like an editor has changed my work in a > > way > > that misses the point, or obscures the point I was trying to make, I >feel > > irritated-- not because the sanctity of my words has been violated, but > > because I would prefer to be involved in the process. I'm always willing > > to > > compropmise as long as I'm involved in the process, and I have some >great > > editors who can make my pieces "better." > > > > But the "better" in question here relates mostly the market, to which > > music > > and literary criticism are explicitly tied-- i.e. in common review > > formats, > > reviews are linked to release dates, and the position of reviewer is in > > large part designed to position one as a consumer's advocate, tacitly > > advising what one should or should not spend money on. "Better" in this > > case > > means smoother, with a sturdier structure and more lucid language, more > > polished, etc. So to make changes to writing like this doesn't feel > > problematic to me, because that writing is already, to a degree, > > compromised > > by market imperatives. Whereas my poetry, which I seldom make money from > > (nor do I try to), and which does not bear the responsibility of >conveying > > something true about a particular subject (one that, at one level, it is > > trying to *sell*), exists completely outside of the market. It has no > > interest in market imperatives toward lucidity, polish, saleability, >etc. > > In > > fact, it works exactly against these imperatives, or strives to. For an > > editor to make it "better" misses its point of being a singular > > incarnation > > that has to be contended with for what it is, not another anonymous > > smooth-edged pebble in the rock garden of cultural capital. > > > > So for me, it's that simple-- when I'm selling my writing and my writing > > is > > by the nature of its format selling something else, deliberately or > > otherwise, it becomes a consumer product and subject to the consumer's > > demands-- and the to the editor's, who is paying me. But when it comes >to > > my > > poetry, I don't owe anything to anyone-- in fact, it's a sphere I go to > > get > > away from all that. > > > > Best > > Brian H > > > > > > > > > > On 7/3/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > > > > I'd like to reflect a bit on why we believe--and I do too--that our > > poems > > > can't be edited. Most of the writing I do is art criticism, and all of > > that > > > is subjected to a fairly thorough editing process. Likewise, I edit >for > > one > > > of the magazines I write for, and I've edited for other magazines in >the > > > past, so I have experience of both sides of the relationship. Of >course > > it > > > is assumed that nothing is published under my name that I haven't > > approved > > > of--although in small ways that assumption is honored in the breach > > probably > > > more often than I remember, and there are certain specific exceptions: > > > notably, in the magazine world, the title of the piece is an absolute > > > editorial prerogative; esp. with the bigger magazines, the title I >give > > an > > > article is just a suggestion. In my experience, most of the editors >I've > > > worked with have helped my writing immeasurably. We sometimes get into > > > serious arguments, and they sometimes annoy me intensely, but even >that > > > always turns out to be part of > > > the process of making the article better. > > > > > > On the other hand, I've only ever had the most tentative suggestions > > from > > > those who publish my poetry. They share the assumption that to even > > think of > > > intervening in another poet's work is not something too be done easily > > or > > > lightly. > > > > > > So does this mean that we believe that other forms of writing, such as > > art > > > criticism, are the rsult of collective effort whereas poetry is a >purely > > > individual matter? Does it imply that we have shared criteria for > > quality in > > > prose writing while we lack any but the most intuitive criteria for > > poetry? > > > Does this presumed difference between two kinds of writing have any > > > political implications? (For iistance, does one therefore sign up to > > > libertarianism in the act of writing poetry?) > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:22:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: evolution and language MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i wonder if someone in the know about darwin and evolution could confirm or deny the following. there's an interesting talk by Steve Jones, professor of genetics at University College London, at http://www.bath.ac.uk/podcast called "Why creationism is wrong and evolution is right" in which he says that Darwin got the notion of evolution (insofar as it is 'descent with modification') from the work of Sir William Jones concerning the 'evolution' of language. is it true that Darwin got the notion of evolution from Sir William Jones's work on the 'evolution' of language? ja? http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:23:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Andy Gricevich Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, all I'm glad that some people are doubtful; skepticism and tentativity are always good in these situations. Indeed, if what's been written here about Listenlight were false, it would amount not only to resentful, hostile, unacceptable treatment of another person, but also to libel, and Jesse would indeed be owed a serious public apology. I'm happy to clear up whatever doubts I can. If you suspect me of hyperbole when I say that the revision of my submission was far more drastic than anything mentioned here (with the possible exception, in a different sense, of the "toon town" anecdote), I can send you the originals and the published version (now removed from the site). (I can even discuss edits with you, or say why I don't think the rewrite is an improvement, despite the evident care with which Jesse rewrote my poem and that of another contributor). A brief account of what happened is posted on my blog, and it's pretty easy to verify its accuracy. I would HOPE, if Jesse (hi, Jesse) were being libeled, or even if someone were slanting the truth maliciously in order to damage his reputation, that he would respond directly, set the situation straight. I assume that the condescending, dismissive, indirect remarks he's posted here indicate that he doesn't contest the accuracy of these reports, but feels that he's in the right. If I thought that I was in the right, but that, given the facts, I had no chance of convincing anyone otherwise, I'd probably stay "above" the discussion as well. Backchannel me about this if you like. all the best, Andy http://ndgwriting.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:05:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: new on chaxblog, certain slants Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed One more post up on chaxblog, journal of time in England, and including brief looks at four chapbooks from Equipage: Elizabeth Willis, the great egg of night Tony Lopez, Equal Signs Caroline Bergall, 8 figs Carol Watts, brass, running http://chax.org/blog.htm see Junction Press, http://junctionpress.com/books/alexander.html for my latest book charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 101 W. Sixth St. Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:33:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > On 7/5/07, Marcus Bales wrote: > > If you were getting paid for your poems you'd have LESS, not > > more, ability to say what got printed, just as when you're paid for a > > review or ther prose piece, you expect it will be edited for length, > > content, and they're likely to change the title. Is that what you > > WANT in the poetry business? To get paid enough so that editors > > can cut your poem, rearrange the stanzas or paragraphs, > > have a re-write person add to it, change the title, and so forth? On 5 Jul 2007 at 9:05, Alison Croggon wrote: > This is also crap. I made a distinction between journalism and literature. I > write journalism (I am a theatre reviewer for the Australian, a daily > national newspaper) and I do not expect my deathless prose to be published > unchanged as a journalist, sure.< You were talking about legality and law suits and enforcing the "moral rights" of people -- and the only way that such private civil enforcement is going to happen is if there is enough money involved in publishing poetry that there is a market for it. That means, the only reason to be talking about legality and enforcement is if there's something other than "moral rights" involved. Otherwise, if all you're saying is "tsk tsk", well, then, it's just blather. I live in a city where it's illegal, explicitly illegal, to shoot off a whole array of fireworks in the city limits, and illegal to drink alcohol in open containers on the streets or sidewalks, yet last night, there was the councilman, drinking a beer on the sidewalk, directing the police to block off a street so people could shoot off fireworks. Lots of illegal things are allowed de minimus and people republishing poems, or editing them without permission, as well as shooting off fireworks and drinking beer, are some of them. The only way that this becomes an issue at law is if you, Alison, or other individual poets, make it one by suing. Or if some editor somewhere sues you for failing to properly credit his or her journal if you reprint the poem. So the moment you start talking about "illegal" you start talking, necessarily, about enforcement, and the only enforcement in the civil law is people suing each other. You want to claim now that you said nothing about suing? Then you have to accept that you said nothing of any interest or moment about the issue at all. Further, once either there is enough money to justify legal enforcement in the poetry business that people _do_ start suing one another, then the editorial conventions will start to change, and will change, because editors will demand, and poets who want to be published _and paid for it_ will accede to, editing poems as they edit prose: cutting things out, adding things in, changing the title, and so on, to suit their _customer's_ tastes. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:05:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707041513k228338b3n4390495c8788438c@mail.gmail.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I think this topic has pretty well been covered. Just one corrective: it's unlikely that anybody at the time criticized Moby Dick because of the occasional lists (the prefatory matter and perhaps three chapters) and the more than occasional digressions. In those regards it's thoroughly in the tradition of Fielding and Sterne, both of whom were universally read: the intrusive, wayward narrator was in no way unusual. For the sake of mischief, a reminder that no less a figure than Pound used to revise other's poems and publish them sans consultation. I would have been furious, but there it is. Mark >My proposal (I admit, not particularly modest) may first appear to be taking >away power, disenfranchising editor/publishers. The very reverse is true. >The power becomes strategic, rather than technical, focused around an >aggressive choice on the totality of a poet, which is a visionary act, >rather than on individual lines or poems. If one considers historically, one >remembers those editors who made those choices or failed to make them, for >example, Mrs. Shakespeare with "Ulysses" or Maddox Ford, who decided to >publish D.H. Lawrence after having read only the first paragraph of one of >his short stories. Or, one can think of Andre Gide, who rejected Marcel >Proust's "A La Recherche"; I suppose he found the first paragraph of >"Swann's Way" completely uneditable. Or think of "Moby Dick," a totally >"bad" novel by any public standard of that time. In fact, "Moby Dick" is the >eternal bad novel, with all its endless lists and so few, oh so few, >visionary narrative moments. Did the publishers of "Typee" and "Omoo" >publish "Moby Dick" or reject it? > >I was planning to bring in a few more points I had on mind, but this is >enough; I have a few other things to do. I am not a scholar. I would like to >know more about the changing meaning and position of editor (or publisher) >through history. I would appreciate any comments along those lines. > >Happy fourth of July, or whatever is left of this decrepit, sad and worn out >concept. > >Ciao, > >Murat > > > >On 7/2/07, Andy Gricevich < ndm_g@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>Wow. So this has been happening for some time, to >>quite a few people. >>Thanks, Alison, for the legal tip--I suspected that >>that was the case and, though I have no desire to "go >>there," it's good to know for sure. >> >>I agree that Tom's original is better than the >>"improved" version; that's probably the case with the >>work of most people this has happened to. >> >>Has anyone on this list had any similar experiences >>with other editors? It'd be good to avoid their >>journals as well. >> >>Eek. One worries. >> >>Andy >> >> >> >> >> >>I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and >>he altered it and >>posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: >> >>http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ >> >>he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't >>know any better >>than to question his choices, though they weren't >>offensive enough for >>me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, >>for comparison. >> >>is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just >>not the done thing? >>as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be >>understood as "take it >>or leave it"? >> >>fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is >>right before I >>experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first >>encounter with langpo >>and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... >>so this one was >>kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating >>with Jesse I was >>aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my >>current work; that is, >>I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing >>with it. now that >>I look back at it, I like my version of the piece >>better. >> >>tl >> >> >> >> >>____________________________________________________________________________________ >>Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's >>Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. >>http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:51:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 5 Jul 2007 at 8:43, Alison Croggon wrote: > "Moral rights" is ... it seems they don't exist in > the US; but they certainly exist - as a legal category - in other places, > and in the US they are covered by copyright.< So you're talking about "moral rights" that don't exist in the US, but you spoke broadly as if they applied universally, even though it did NOT apply to the vast majority of the membership of the list is in the US where US law would apply? Moral rights and legal rights are different things. Violating the one does not necessarily violate the other. On 5 Jul 2007 at 8:43, Alison Croggon wrote: > So who's talking about suing? I wasn't. This is disingenuous in the extreme. Why bother to talk about what's illegal and what's not, much less about why, if you are not thinking about or talking about remedies. What possible difference can it make if something is illegal or not if you're not interested in the remedies and the process of getting the remedies, that is, suing? As soon as you start saying something in the civil law is illegal, you're talking about suing -- because the state has no interest in the particular disputes between the parties other than that they resolve their differences within the civil and criminal laws. The state is not going to enforce your "moral rights" in copyright law -- you have to enforce them by suing, or they go unenforced. And unenforced laws are like no laws at all. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:51:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468BD4A5.6070207@myuw.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Exactly -- but not because it's a "violation of the author's moral rights"! Marcus On 4 Jul 2007 at 10:11, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > US Copyright law is laid out in title 17 of the US Common Code of Law. > In chapter 1 Section 106, it makes very clear that it is the exclusive > right of a copyright holder to reproduce copies of the copyrighted work > and to prepare derivative works based on the copyrighted work. Editing a > poem and printing the edited version without the author's agreement is a > violation of both rights, hence illegal. > > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > Alison Croggon > > >>> Changing a poem and publishing changes without the author's consent > >>> is actually a violation of an author's moral rights. Which is to say, > >>> it's not only unethical, but illegal ...< > >>> > > > > I've got no dog in this fight, but this kind of muzzy-headed thinking is amazing. > > > > Moral rights and legal rights are two different things. I agree that changing a > > poet's poem without his or her approval is a violation of the author's moral > > rights, but unless there's a law against it, it is NOT illegal. Is Alison asserting > > there is a law against it? Cite the legal code, then, not the moral right. And > > asserting that something is illegal when it is instead unethical is a dangerous > > business, because even muzzier-headed people might think it's true. > > > > Furthermore, all this talk of rights and legality and contracts regarding the > > publication of poems -- what bullshit. Are there really people so harmed by > > how their poems were presented that they sue? Are there really publishers so > > harmed by a poem appearing in some other magazine or book that they sue? > > Is there so much money sloshing around in the poetry business that people > > are at each others' legal throats constantly, wrangling to get the best deal to > > make the most money? It's crap. The poetry business is a gift economy. No > > one makes any money in it. And if they did, if there were markets for poetry > > then all the rules for editing prose would apply, as Mr Howe has suggested > > they apply. If you were getting paid for your poems you'd have LESS, not > > more, ability to say what got printed, just as when you're paid for a review or > > other prose piece, you expect it will be edited for length, content, and they're > > likely to change the title. Is that what you WANT in the poetry business? To > > get paid enough so that editors can cut your poem, rearrange the stanzas or > > paragraphs, have a re-write person add to it, change the title, and so forth? > > > > Get real. The only reason poets can mouth off in such silly fashion is that no > > one gives a rat's ass what a poet says or does. Poetry is the medium in which > > you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is listening. > > > > Marcus > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 7/4/2007 1:40 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:41:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: ixnay press call for work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what kind odf work? On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 13:51:42 -0500 Ixnay Press writes: > Hello, > > We're currently reading submissions for the third volume of "the > ixnay reader," a yearly perfect-bound journal. We'll be reading > submissions until July 31st. Up to 10 pgs of work can be sent to > this email address (ixnaypress@verizon.net) or to our snail mail > address: > > ixnay c/o McCreary > 1328 Tasker Street > Philadelphia PA 19148 > > The first two issues of the "reader" can be found as free pdfs on > our new website, www.ixnaypress.com. Note that the "reader" tends to > focus on a relatively small number of writers but gives each writer > quite a bit of space. > > Any questions? Please drop a line. Thanks muchly. > > Chris McCreary / co-editor, ixnay press > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:32:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707041513k228338b3n4390495c8788438c@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Murat wrote: > "Editing" is the norm in mainstream publications. And if you object to it > you are being unreasonable or unprofessional. There is a logic to that > situation. Mainstream publications need to make money, and their editors do > believe they know what their readerships will find acceptable. The issue has > little to do with good or bad (though the editor may think it does) but a > communality of taste. So many things to say about this one paragraph of yours. First, you make your contempt for editing clear by placing the word in quotation marks. And as someone whose job has been editing at various publications, one goal, as with all for-profit businesses, has been to, well, turn a profit. The issue of style and content has always been a good and bad issue, as well as a readership issue, not one at the exclusion of the other. Hell, if you write an article for Sports Illustrated on Turkish-American relations it will be rejected, and a thread that doesn't go anywhere in a movie review for a local community paper will be edited out, as well it should be. Editing is also, of course, about style, and publications may adhere to a greater style guide, AP at most places I've been, but then each place has their own house style, too. And Murat wrote again: > In these instances, I have tried to show how a trust develops (or must > develop) from the publisher (editor) in the integrity, rightness of what the > writer/poet is doing. In these cases, of course, financial considerations > are less paramount, and, most often, the publisher and editor are the same > person. (In the bigger, mainstream publishing houses, the functions are > split, weakening the aesthetic impulse, the aggressive element of editorial > choice.) Here, I will go even a step further: if a publisher commits to > publish a poet (writer), the commitment must be to all this poet's work, > with no editorial selection.This idea, which may seem strange, has two basic > reasons. First, "editorial selection" implies that a poet's work consists of > individual pieces. In my view, a poet's real achievement is in its totality, > the explorations, the obsessions, the solutions which run through his or her > work. In that way, a more powerful poet's "failures" are more interesting > and absorbing and revealing that a lesser poet's successes. Second, finding > a publishing "home" releases a lot of energy for a poet, both chronological > and mental, creating a room of silence "of one's own" in which writing can > more easily occur. The argument that every work, including poems (except > when "first thought is best thought"), needs editing is unconvincing. Most > poets have already edited (by spending endless hours) their poems before > offering them to a publisher. The question is who is doing the editing. The only time in the 16 years I've been running boog where I could see this holding true was with a lee ann brown chapbook we published in the summer of 1993, a museme. It contained 10 poems, one for each of the nine deities plus one for their mom. There was a case where if I was going to put out that chap it would only be with all 10 poems. Every other ms of poems, solicited and unsolicited, hasn't come to me with an author's instructions that this is the ms, every poem in this order, or I'll go elsewhere (and it isn't like I'm only the only micro press in town). As I stated in an earlier reply to this thread, I think an editor/publisher who gets work and puts it out without an attempt to red pen it should just call themselves a printer. Better yet Murat, why not cut out us middlemen, us editors and publishers, and just put out yr work on yr own, then it'll come out just the way you'd like, but, more than likely, not as good. as ever, david ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:18:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit why sanctimony jesse do you honestly believe it's ok to change work and publisht without asking sanctimony? on who's part address this part of the issue directly what are your true thoughts on this issue and your part in it?? obviously if you stand silent we takeit that you think it's ok to alter someone's work beyond suggesting changes On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:55:56 -0500 Jesse Crockett writes: > Featuring its clutch lineup --- > > is laughing at you --- > > this trite, meaningless sanctimony --- > > but willing to offer a rematch. > > http://listenlight.net > > Editor Jess Crockett > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:27:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Joseph Massey made me VERY HAPPY today forwarding a PDF of Ceravolo's long out of print FITS OF DAWN, made me very very very fucking happy indeed! You can see the cover on The PhillySound, as well as links to PENNSOUND's Ceravolo page, which Eric Baus just alerted me to as well. Go here: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com I for one am SICK AND TIRED of the poetry world publishing endless crap and ignoring the fact that Ceravolo is out of print, except for the selected THE GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE. And no disrespect intended to the editors of the selected, but it doesn't BEGIN to give us the total JOLT that is Joseph Ceravolo! Whose cock do I have to suck to get the COLLECTED Ceravolo published! What a ridiculous fucking world this is when I see some of the boring shit being published in mass quantities and NO Ceravolo COLLECTED! OY! Makes my bad manners break loose! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:45:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Subject: Poetics List Welcome Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Reminder -- The list editors reserve the right to decide what messages will be approved for posting to this list. Submitting posts to the list does not guarantee that they will be published. -- Flame messages will not be tolerated on the Poetics List. -- Posting is limited to four posts per person each day. The Poetics List Sponsored by: The Electronic Poetry Center (SUNY-Buffalo/University of Pennsylvania) and the Regan Chair (Department of English, Penn) & Center for Program in Contemporary Writing (Penn) Poetics List Editor: Amy King Poetics List Editorial Board: Charles Bernstein, Julia Bloch, Lori Emerson, Amy King, Joel Kuszai, Nick Piombino Note: this Welcome message is also available at the EPC/@Buffalo page http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Poetics Subscription Registration (required) poetics.list --at -- gmail.com note our new address! Poetics Subscription Requests: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Note that any correspondence sent to the Poetics List administration account takes about ten days, for response; mail to this account is checked about once per week. C O N T E N T S: 1. About the Poetics List 2. Posting to the List 3. Subscriptions 4. Subscription Options 5. To Unsubscribe 6. Cautions -------------------------------------------- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its fourth incarnation, the list has over 1300 subscribers worldwide. We also have a substantial number of nonsubscribing readers, who access the list through our web site (see archive URL above). The Poetics List is not a forum for a general discussion of poetry or for the exchange of poems. Our aim is to support, inform, and extend those directions in poetry that are committed to innovations, renovations, and investigations of form and/or/as content, to the questioning of received forms and styles, and to the creation of the otherwise unimagined, untried, unexpected, improbable, and impossible. 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Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the editors at . http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:44:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <20070705.122656.304.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit If I were editing this chain I would suggest quite a few changes in this last bit. On Jul 5, 2007, at 9:18 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > why sanctimony jesse do you honestly believe it's ok to change work > and > publisht without asking sanctimony? on who's part > address this part of the issue directly what are your true thoughts on > this issue and your part in it?? obviously if you stand silent > we takeit that you think it's ok to alter someone's work beyond > suggesting changes > > On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 22:55:56 -0500 Jesse Crockett > writes: >> Featuring its clutch lineup --- >> >> is laughing at you --- >> >> this trite, meaningless sanctimony --- >> >> but willing to offer a rematch. >> >> http://listenlight.net >> >> Editor Jess Crockett >> >> > > Geo. H. Bowering Adaptable yet reliable. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:28:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070705125908.064d1250@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mischief, eh? Et tu, Mark? But seriously, I had a poem once published online in Wired (back in those days, yeah) as an "essay." I shrugged it off. David DelTredici once told me that Lenny Bernstein cut some nine minutes out of his (David's) orchestral piece called Tattoo, both in performance and in recording. Bernstein routinely cut several minutes from Roy Harris's 3rd Symphony, an American Classic. Writers are accustomed to having their books pulped, thanks to Bill Clinton. What's new? Artists in all fields are at the mercy of the commodifiers. The solution? Do it yourself. Write the book, print it, distribute it, even review and blurb it yourself. The way of the future (and some of the past). Don't you love it? I do. Thanks, Walt! Hal "No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else's draft." --H. G. Wells Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 5, 2007, at 12:05 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > I think this topic has pretty well been covered. Just one > corrective: it's unlikely that anybody at the time criticized Moby > Dick because of the occasional lists (the prefatory matter and > perhaps three chapters) and the more than occasional digressions. > In those regards it's thoroughly in the tradition of Fielding and > Sterne, both of whom were universally read: the intrusive, wayward > narrator was in no way unusual. > > For the sake of mischief, a reminder that no less a figure than > Pound used to revise other's poems and publish them sans > consultation. I would have been furious, but there it is. > > Mark > > >> My proposal (I admit, not particularly modest) may first appear to >> be taking >> away power, disenfranchising editor/publishers. The very reverse >> is true. >> The power becomes strategic, rather than technical, focused around an >> aggressive choice on the totality of a poet, which is a visionary >> act, >> rather than on individual lines or poems. If one considers >> historically, one >> remembers those editors who made those choices or failed to make >> them, for >> example, Mrs. Shakespeare with "Ulysses" or Maddox Ford, who >> decided to >> publish D.H. Lawrence after having read only the first paragraph >> of one of >> his short stories. Or, one can think of Andre Gide, who rejected >> Marcel >> Proust's "A La Recherche"; I suppose he found the first paragraph of >> "Swann's Way" completely uneditable. Or think of "Moby Dick," a >> totally >> "bad" novel by any public standard of that time. In fact, "Moby >> Dick" is the >> eternal bad novel, with all its endless lists and so few, oh so few, >> visionary narrative moments. Did the publishers of "Typee" and "Omoo" >> publish "Moby Dick" or reject it? >> >> I was planning to bring in a few more points I had on mind, but >> this is >> enough; I have a few other things to do. I am not a scholar. I >> would like to >> know more about the changing meaning and position of editor (or >> publisher) >> through history. I would appreciate any comments along those lines. >> >> Happy fourth of July, or whatever is left of this decrepit, sad >> and worn out >> concept. >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> >> On 7/2/07, Andy Gricevich < ndm_g@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> Wow. So this has been happening for some time, to >>> quite a few people. >>> Thanks, Alison, for the legal tip--I suspected that >>> that was the case and, though I have no desire to "go >>> there," it's good to know for sure. >>> >>> I agree that Tom's original is better than the >>> "improved" version; that's probably the case with the >>> work of most people this has happened to. >>> >>> Has anyone on this list had any similar experiences >>> with other editors? It'd be good to avoid their >>> journals as well. >>> >>> Eek. One worries. >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I submitted something to Jesse earlier this year, and >>> he altered it and >>> posted the piece under his no. 6 edition: >>> >>> http://listenlight.net/06/lewis/ >>> >>> he did warn me he was going to do this, and I didn't >>> know any better >>> than to question his choices, though they weren't >>> offensive enough for >>> me to pull the piece out. below are the two versions, >>> for comparison. >>> >>> is this kind of behavior on the part of editors just >>> not the done thing? >>> as in, when you submit a poem the terms should be >>> understood as "take it >>> or leave it"? >>> >>> fyi, the piece was written in August '05, which is >>> right before I >>> experienced a stylistic sea-change (e.g., my first >>> encounter with langpo >>> and the harder forms of avant-garde writing/theory)... >>> so this one was >>> kind of an orphan and at the time I was communicating >>> with Jesse I was >>> aware that it wasn't exactly representative of my >>> current work; that is, >>> I wasn't so turned off by the idea of someone messing >>> with it. now that >>> I look back at it, I like my version of the piece >>> better. >>> >>> tl >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> ________________ >>> Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's >>> Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. >>> http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/222 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:26:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/5/07, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: > > Murat wrote: > > > "Editing" is the norm in mainstream publications. And if you object to > it > > you are being unreasonable or unprofessional. There is a logic to that > > situation. Mainstream publications need to make money, and their editors > do > > believe they know what their readerships will find acceptable. The issue > has > > little to do with good or bad (though the editor may think it does) but > a > > communality of taste. > > So many things to say about this one paragraph of yours. First, you make > your contempt for editing clear by placing the word in quotation marks. David, The quotation marks does not imply contempt. The marks imply that what is the norm in mainstream publications is not the only conceivable way of publishing.What makes so in mainstream is money. There are editors who think very differently from the way you do, where making money is not their primary concern. I can name a number in our time. And as someone whose job has been editing at various publications, one goal, > as with all for-profit businesses, has been to, well, turn a profit. The > issue of style and content has always been a good and bad issue, as well > as > a readership issue, not one at the exclusion of the other. Hell, if you > write an article for Sports Illustrated on Turkish-American relations it > will be rejected, and a thread that doesn't go anywhere in a movie review > for a local community paper will be edited out, as well it should be. > Editing is also, of course, about style, and publications may adhere to a > greater style guide, AP at most places I've been, but then each place has > their own house style, too. Here again we come to the issue of a specific market (readership, audience), which of course makes the prospect of profit possible. Within such a more or less specified market, the concept of good or bad also becomes more or less specified, in other words, natural. What I was talking about is a situation (an it is the situation of poetry as I see it) where this market (audience) is blurred, undefined, in purely commercial terms, non-existent. Here, the idea of editorship changes, becomes transformed. If the definition of an audience is blurred, the absoluteness of good or bad is also blurred -the latter becoming increasingly an ideal, a trusted goal postponed to the future. I assume that is what experimentation is. In such a situation, how does an editor gain authority over the poet? Which you seem to apply. Once the poet accepts that he or she will make no money out of his or hear endeavors, this will provide the poet with a lot of freedom. Of course, the editor has the freedom to reject the work, and the poet to submit it somewhere else, or to publish it himself or herself (a prattice with a honorable history). And Murat wrote again: > > > In these instances, I have tried to show how a trust develops (or must > > develop) from the publisher (editor) in the integrity, rightness of what > the > > writer/poet is doing. In these cases, of course, financial > considerations > > are less paramount, and, most often, the publisher and editor are the > same > > person. (In the bigger, mainstream publishing houses, the functions are > > split, weakening the aesthetic impulse, the aggressive element of > editorial > > choice.) Here, I will go even a step further: if a publisher commits to > > publish a poet (writer), the commitment must be to all this poet's work, > > with no editorial selection.This idea, which may seem strange, has two > basic > > reasons. First, "editorial selection" implies that a poet's work > consists of > > individual pieces. In my view, a poet's real achievement is in its > totality, > > the explorations, the obsessions, the solutions which run through his or > her > > work. In that way, a more powerful poet's "failures" are more > interesting > > and absorbing and revealing that a lesser poet's successes. Second, > finding > > a publishing "home" releases a lot of energy for a poet, both > chronological > > and mental, creating a room of silence "of one's own" in which writing > can > > more easily occur. The argument that every work, including poems (except > > when "first thought is best thought"), needs editing is unconvincing. > Most > > poets have already edited (by spending endless hours) their poems before > > offering them to a publisher. The question is who is doing the editing. > > > The only time in the 16 years I've been running boog where I could see > this > holding true was with a lee ann brown chapbook we published in the summer > of > 1993, a museme. It contained 10 poems, one for each of the nine deities > plus > one for their mom. There was a case where if I was going to put out that > chap it would only be with all 10 poems. Every other ms of poems, > solicited > and unsolicited, hasn't come to me with an author's instructions that this > is the ms, every poem in this order, or I'll go elsewhere (and it isn't > like > I'm only the only micro press in town). My point is not statistical but conceptual. Undoubtedly, in the majority of publications an editorial process occurs; it occurred in mine. Most of the time, I accepted many of the suggestions without a problem. I did not submit my manuscripts with a cover letter of instructions either, saying, "this is the manuscript and its order, take it or leave it or else." But, once the publisher accepted the work (he may make it conditional on some changes, which the poet may or may not accept), he basically respected its integrity. As I said in my earlier post, I believe in the totality of a writer's work, where shape is very significant. You have sensed it yourself in Lee Ann's poem. As I stated in an earlier reply to > this thread, I think an editor/publisher who gets work and puts it out > without an attempt to red pen it should just call themselves a printer. > Better yet Murat, why not cut out us middlemen, us editors and publishers, > and just put out yr work on yr own, then it'll come out just the way you'd > like, but, more than likely, not as good. Why should "red pen" be what separates an editor from a printer? Wouldn't the choice of a writer -one unnoticed or rejected by other publishers- be the sign of a truly perceptive editor? To me the idea that editors "improve" the writers' work is very problematic. I know there is the example of Thomas Wolfe. I don't think most poets are lazy bums or rube geniuses needing to be rescued from themselves. I wonder what Alan Sondheim feels about being edited? I would like also to bring up the issue of The Waste Land, the quintessential editorial intrusion in modern poetry, no doubt a huge improvement on the early versions of the poem before Ezra Pound touched it. On the other hand, as I see it, The Waste Land is an anomaly in T. S. Eliot's work. The collage structure of the poem had not been used by him before, and he drops it after the poem. The Waste Land is considered Eliot's masterpiece, particularly by those who do not very much like his work. My impression is that among those who have affection for his work, and I am one of them, the poems which really touch them are Prufrock and The Four Quartets (the latter being maybe the most disliked work by the opposite side). Ciao, Murat as ever, > david > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:48:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: evolution and language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, here is a link that might help if you haven't already found it. _http://www.the-scientist.com/2004/12/20/16/1/_ (http://www.the-scientist.com/2004/12/20/16/1/) It references the linguistic evolution thing re Darwin. A book that I found REALLY interesting w/ regard to a revisionist view on evolution (straight Darwinism seems mechanistic and 19th century) came from an unlikely source: Arthur Koestler. His Ghost in the Machine, a result of his year spent in an interdisciplinary think tank enviroment, questions some of the central premises in straight Darwinian evolutionary theory, and offers tantalizing glimpses of things like recapitulationary evolution (reculer pour mieux sauter), and directed evolution of sorts....he gives beaucoup evidence, including parallel evolutions of mammalian and marsupial species on continents separated eons ago. The chapter on homology is particularly beautiful, in a mathematical sort of way. Makes you wonder if all that "extraneous" material in genes we think are meaningless are really what we think. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: evolution and language In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed He may be pushing it. There was a fair amount of work motivated by the growing awaremness of similarities between things which nonetheless had become different over long periods of time. Jones' observations were one of them. Did Darwin also know Grimm's Law? He certainly was aware of Lamarck, which posited evolution but got the mechanism way wrong, and, most important, he carried Lyell's geology texts with him on the Beagle. Lyell demonstrated the earth's antiquity and the existence of major transformations from the accretion of small changes. He almost certainly didn't know Mendel's work, which he would have found useful. Every farmer knew about selective breeding--it was in fact a fad in the 18th and 19th centuries, as witnessed by all the portraits of grotesquely improbable pigs. Darwin's great insight was that randomly generated traits within groups of animals in isolation from other members of their species would accumulate to the point that the group would differentiate not just into a strange pig but into a new species entirely if those traits gave individuals carrying them a reproductive advantage by helping them, for instance, secure nutrition or resist predation. The environment, in other words, acted as the selector from among the available traits. This didn't come from Jones (whose basic insight had been at any rate anticipated by a good century) or Lyell or Grimm, and it remains unchallenged (except for the tweaking of details and an ever more sophisticated understanding of the genetic mechanism). Mark At 03:22 PM 7/5/2007, you wrote: >i wonder if someone in the know about darwin and evolution could confirm or >deny the following. > >there's an interesting talk by Steve Jones, professor of genetics at >University College London, at http://www.bath.ac.uk/podcast called "Why >creationism is wrong and evolution is right" in which he says that Darwin >got the notion of evolution (insofar as it is 'descent with modification') >from the work of Sir William Jones concerning the 'evolution' of language. > >is it true that Darwin got the notion of evolution from Sir William Jones's >work on the 'evolution' of language? > >ja? >http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:42:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Glasgow Puppets - An Ancestral Round Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" , UK POETRY Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For a visual treat, etc: Glasgow Puppets - An Ancestral Round http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Enjoy Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 13:16:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Truitt Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello, Would love to get the PDF, yes, and with that in mind, if you could get me Joe Massey's email will make it happen. Many thanks and Best as ever, Sam CA Conrad wrote: Joseph Massey made me VERY HAPPY today forwarding a PDF of Ceravolo's long out of print FITS OF DAWN, made me very very very fucking happy indeed! You can see the cover on The PhillySound, as well as links to PENNSOUND's Ceravolo page, which Eric Baus just alerted me to as well. Go here: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com I for one am SICK AND TIRED of the poetry world publishing endless crap and ignoring the fact that Ceravolo is out of print, except for the selected THE GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE. And no disrespect intended to the editors of the selected, but it doesn't BEGIN to give us the total JOLT that is Joseph Ceravolo! Whose cock do I have to suck to get the COLLECTED Ceravolo published! What a ridiculous fucking world this is when I see some of the boring shit being published in mass quantities and NO Ceravolo COLLECTED! OY! Makes my bad manners break loose! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com _____________________________________________________________ Sam Truitt's "Days" (improvisational AV strip each day of 2007) www.youtube.com/profile?user=Samtruitt --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:11:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: Sunday, 7/22 - STACY SZYMASZEK & LEE BRICCETTI at WP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:38:05 -0700> From: woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.net= > Subject: Sunday, 7/22 - STACY SZYMASZEK & LEE BRICCETTI at WP> To: woodla= ndpattern@sbcglobal.net> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D> SAVE THE DATE! STACY SZYMASZEK & LEE BRICCETTI AT WOODLAND PATTERN>= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> > A Sunday after= noon reading and reception with the poets:> > Stacy Szymaszek (Emptied of A= ll Ships, Hyper-glossia)> > and Lee Briccetti (Day Mark)> > Sunday, July 22= , 2007, 2:00 p.m.> Woodland Pattern Book Center> 720 East Locust Street, Mi= lwaukee> > $8 / $7 / $6> > Sunday, 7/22: Stacy Szymaszek & Lee Briccetti, 2= p.m.> > Stacy Szymaszek was born in Milwaukee, WI in 1969. After living in= > Philadelphia and Chicago she found what she was looking for back in> Milw= aukee in the form of Woodland Pattern Book Center, where she> worked from 1= 999-2005. Huzzah! Some of her chapbooks are: Some> Mariners (Etherdome, 200= 4), Mutual Aid (gong, 2004), Pasolini Poems> (Cy Press, 2005) and There Wer= e Hostilities (release, 2005). While> in Milwaukee some of her cultural wor= ks included: curating readings> at the Jody Monroe Gallery, co-editing the= journal traverse, keeping> life-sustaining poetry on the shelves of WP, an= d editing the> acclaimed Gam: A Survey of Great Lakes Writing. In 2005 she = moved to> New York to work for the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church, whe= re> she has recently been named its new Artistic Director. Some of her> cul= tural works in addition to Project work include: contributing> editor for f= ascicle, coeditor of Instance Press, and she continues> on with the Gam (is= a gift) project. Szymaszek is the author of> Emptied of All Ships and the = forthcoming Hyper-glossia, both with> Litmus Press. > > http://www.woodland= pattern.org/> > Lee Briccetti is the long-time Executive Director of Poets = House, a> 50,000-volume poetry library and meeting place in New York City.>= Under her leadership, Poets House developed the Poets House> Showcase, an = annual exhibit of new poetry books, as well as the> Poetry in The Branches,= a national outreach program that assists> public libraries throughout the = country in providing poetry> services. Lee is a graduate of the Iowa Writer= s' Workshop. She> received a New York Foundation for the Arts Award for Poe= try and has> been a Poetry Fellow at the Fine Arts Work Center in Provincet= own.> Her first book of poetry, Day Mark, was published in 2005 by Four> Wa= y Books.> > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> UPCOMING EVENTS> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> > 7/1 - 7/15: Woodland Pattern Closed for Inve= ntory> > Sat. 7/21: Brandi Homan Workshop: An Uneasy Truce> > Sun. 7/22: St= acy Szymaszek & Lee Briccetti; 2pm> > Wed. 7/25: Marie Larson & Rob Baumann= Farewell Reading; 7pm> > Sat. 8/11: Valerie Martinez & Emmy Perez hosted b= y B. Cardenas; 7pm> > Sun. 8/12: Blaise Moritz & Sara Levine hosted by Rena= to Umali; 2pm> > Fri. 8/17: Redletter: Christien Gholson & Michaela Kahn; 7= pm> > Sat. 8/18: Tony Trigilio Workshop: Allen Ginsberg's Buddhist Poetics>= > Sun. 8/19: Small Press Focus: Cultural Society w. Zach Barocas; 11am> > = Sun. 8/19: Zach Barocas, Joel Bettridge, and Peter O'Leary; 2pm> > http://w= ww.woodlandpattern.org/> > ________________________________________________= ____________________> To receive regular messages notifying you of Woodland= Pattern> events, send a message to us at woodlandpattern@sbcglobal.net wit= h> "Join E-List" in the subject line.> > To unsubscribe from these mailings= send a reply with "unsubscribe"> in the subject line.> > PLEASE FORWARD! = THANKS!!!> > http://www.woodlandpattern.org/> > Woodland Pattern Book Cente= r> 720 E. Locust Street> Milwaukee, WI 53212> phone 414.263.5001 _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Wi= ndows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=3Den-us&ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_mig= ration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:05:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable holy canoli to you too conrad--!--i have the pdf of the book also--and i th= ink it is a criminal conspiracy that ceravolo's work is not all in print--j= ust a little bit of it--have speculated on it with friends--sometimes when = a very good poet , artist, musician--has long been neglected while heaps of= medioctiry have been monumentalized and canonized--to suddenly bring forth= the buried one--terrifies people!because--why is it this person was so ove= rlooked? year after year--it makes people feel complicit--or like fools--or= vaguely uneasy--why weren't they told about this person before???--"the bl= ame game" will begin!!!and then the stampede will begin of al the people wh= o have loved the person all along--and wil start to let everyone know about= it--from a nobody a person can become a very important somebody--esp if th= ey are dead!and who they were and what their work is can be formed in the p= roper packaged manner--i am sure now we will be hearing a great deal for a = little while about this person, Ceravolo!!i hope very much though it is for= a long time, and for real, and not a short time and just a little show and= then gone again--> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 11:27:32 -0500> From: caconrad13@= GMAIL.COM> Subject: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!= !!!!!!!!> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > Joseph Massey made me VERY HA= PPY today forwarding a PDF of Ceravolo's long> out of print FITS OF DAWN, m= ade me very very very fucking happy indeed!> > You can see the cover on The= PhillySound, as well as links to PENNSOUND's> Ceravolo page, which Eric Ba= us just alerted me to as well. Go here:> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com> = > I for one am SICK AND TIRED of the poetry world publishing endless crap a= nd> ignoring the fact that Ceravolo is out of print, except for the selecte= d THE> GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE. And no disrespect intended to the editors of t= he> selected, but it doesn't BEGIN to give us the total JOLT that is Joseph= > Ceravolo!> > Whose cock do I have to suck to get the COLLECTED Ceravolo p= ublished! What> a ridiculous fucking world this is when I see some of the = boring shit being> published in mass quantities and NO Ceravolo COLLECTED!>= > OY! Makes my bad manners break loose!> CAConrad> http://PhillySound.blo= gspot.com _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com= ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:50:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit copyrights? do you copyright every pome you write? right ??? On Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:11:01 -0700 Jason Quackenbush writes: > US Copyright law is laid out in title 17 of the US Common Code of > Law. > In chapter 1 Section 106, it makes very clear that it is the > exclusive > right of a copyright holder to reproduce copies of the copyrighted > work > and to prepare derivative works based on the copyrighted work. > Editing a > poem and printing the edited version without the author's agreement > is a > violation of both rights, hence illegal. > > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > Alison Croggon > > >>> Changing a poem and publishing changes without the author's > consent > >>> is actually a violation of an author's moral rights. Which is to > say, > >>> it's not only unethical, but illegal ...< > >>> > > > > I've got no dog in this fight, but this kind of muzzy-headed > thinking is amazing. > > > > Moral rights and legal rights are two different things. I agree > that changing a > > poet's poem without his or her approval is a violation of the > author's moral > > rights, but unless there's a law against it, it is NOT illegal. Is > Alison asserting > > there is a law against it? Cite the legal code, then, not the > moral right. And > > asserting that something is illegal when it is instead unethical > is a dangerous > > business, because even muzzier-headed people might think it's > true. > > > > Furthermore, all this talk of rights and legality and contracts > regarding the > > publication of poems -- what bullshit. Are there really people so > harmed by > > how their poems were presented that they sue? Are there really > publishers so > > harmed by a poem appearing in some other magazine or book that > they sue? > > Is there so much money sloshing around in the poetry business that > people > > are at each others' legal throats constantly, wrangling to get the > best deal to > > make the most money? It's crap. The poetry business is a gift > economy. No > > one makes any money in it. And if they did, if there were markets > for poetry > > then all the rules for editing prose would apply, as Mr Howe has > suggested > > they apply. If you were getting paid for your poems you'd have > LESS, not > > more, ability to say what got printed, just as when you're paid > for a review or > > other prose piece, you expect it will be edited for length, > content, and they're > > likely to change the title. Is that what you WANT in the poetry > business? To > > get paid enough so that editors can cut your poem, rearrange the > stanzas or > > paragraphs, have a re-write person add to it, change the title, > and so forth? > > > > Get real. The only reason poets can mouth off in such silly > fashion is that no > > one gives a rat's ass what a poet says or does. Poetry is the > medium in which > > you have the freedom to say what you please because no one is > listening. > > > > Marcus > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:58:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Simon Perchik Guest Poet at Poets.com Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, =20 My friend Simon Perchik is =B3Guest Poet of the Month=B2 for the Academy of American Poets' Poets.com. You can submit your poetry or comments to Simon and he'll respond online in their chat. Visit the below link to get there: =20 http://www.poets.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3D12040 best, David ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 12:49:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed yah, i just sent that file over to the big printer in my office. whee! On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, CA Conrad wrote: > Joseph Massey made me VERY HAPPY today forwarding a PDF of Ceravolo's long > out of print FITS OF DAWN, made me very very very fucking happy indeed! > > You can see the cover on The PhillySound, as well as links to PENNSOUND's > Ceravolo page, which Eric Baus just alerted me to as well. Go here: > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > I for one am SICK AND TIRED of the poetry world publishing endless crap and > ignoring the fact that Ceravolo is out of print, except for the selected THE > GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE. And no disrespect intended to the editors of the > selected, but it doesn't BEGIN to give us the total JOLT that is Joseph > Ceravolo! > > Whose cock do I have to suck to get the COLLECTED Ceravolo published! What > a ridiculous fucking world this is when I see some of the boring shit being > published in mass quantities and NO Ceravolo COLLECTED! > > OY! Makes my bad manners break loose! > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:35:14 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <20070705.160237.1440.27.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Marcus, straw men are burning everywhere. Did you read anything I actually wrote? I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. Look it up: "moral rights" is a legal term. It's printed in the front of my published books. And, for the second time, no one was talking about suing. It's a good idea, no, for people to know their rights? Steve, as the author, you hold the copyright of anything you write by default. I have never been an artist who likes tugging my forelock or who feels that I ought to be so grateful to be published that I will allow my work to be bastardised for the sake of it; I have withdrawn poems from prestigious print journals if it seems that changing it against my better judgment is part of the deal. I do not accept my work being treated with disrespect by any publisher, and no writer should. And it happens that in seeking to protect the work as I intend it to be, the law is on my side. Murat, your idea of editing poetry is roughly speaking my policy at Masthead. I am responsible for shaping an issue and choosing the work that will go into it, and I will pick up what looks like typos or mistakes (we all make them) and very occasionally make suggestions in consultation with the author; but I feel that if I invite someone to contribute, I do so on good faith, because I like this work I have asked for. If I accept a poem, I publish the poem I have accepted, and I prefer to publish a number of poems by any particular author, to give (however small) an idea of range and sensibility. However, I don't agree that in more commercial circumstances editing is always without integrity or solely driven by commercial considerations. I'm as proud of my popular novels and take them as seriously as my poetry; in a funny way, what interests me about both, aside from the obvious desire that drives any work, is a question of formal intrigue: how possible is it to subvert generic form without breaking it, say, in the case of writing genre literature. I've encountered many degrees and means of editorial interference; for example, my US publisher - in a major but independent publishing house - is also my editor (an exception, rather than a rule, I agree, but it does happen) and they've never been anything but respectful. I've had my rows with commercial publishers (Penguin) and in fact won them. If I had not been an experienced writer, though, and a stubborn one, it might have been a different story. I have a lot of thoughts about bad editing and how deleterious it can be for a developing writer, but I won't go into them here. Like Andy, I enjoy editing, self-generated or otherwise, and it's always been an important part of my process. All best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 18:32:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: evolution and language In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks, W.B. I see the article you refer to is available in its entirety at http://www3.isrl.uiuc.edu/~junwang4/langev/localcopy/newsreport/2004-12-darw in-meets-chomsky.txt . It begins with a quote from Darwin: "The formation of different languages and of distinct species and the proofs that both have developed through a gradual process are clearly the same." And thanks also to Mark, who points out that the antecedants of the idea of evolution are various, not simply William Jones's work on the evolution of languages. It is of course no surprise that we and language are subject to similar processes, but there is something beautiful in the historical link between Darwin's idea of the evolution of species and the evolution of languages. The study of language has expanded so profoundly in a hundred and fifty years. Language, in the theory of computation, has about the same role as particle systems in physics. And, just as twentieth century science was dominated by physics, so it seems the twenty first will be by studies deeply involving language. Such as computation, genetics, and other types of information. Yet, in most cases, apparently language/information/grammar without a sentient author. Fascinating notions of poetry therein. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 18:00:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Andre Breton's literary executor? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi folks, does anyone know how I would go about contacting Andre Breton's estate about use of his poems and what they'd expect as far as remuneration goes? I've been working on some procedural translations based on a method I developed and had good results with on Rimbaud's Une Saison en Enfer, which I'm hoping to publish through Wet Asphalt press and have no worries about since rimbaud is all public domain. Anyhow I started toying around with Breton translations because while my French is really pretty mediocre, i'd been so pleased with my Rimbaud results, i wanted to try the technique on my other favorite francophone. Any way, some of my efforts have been better than others, but I just finished work on a translation of L'union libre last night that I'm frankly thrilled with and I'd like to see the light of day sometime before Breton's nachlass becomes public domain in 2042. Any advice from those of you who are real translators as compared to bonehead poseurs like me? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 17:43:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. Nope, just in the US, I think. > George Hendrik Bowering Always ate his crusts. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 18:21:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cynthia miller Subject: CUSHING POETRY SERIES JULY 10: Jeremy Frey Comments: To: pog@yahoogroups.com, pogdirs@yahoogroups.com Comments: cc: wlburk12@aol.com, Jeremy Frey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The Cushing Street reading series resumes this coming Tuesday! A great reading with two of Tucson's best poets. Please forward this message to any individual or list as you wish. CUSHING STREET POETRY a reading by JEREMY FREY & WENDY BURK 8:00 pm, Tuesday, July 10th, 2007 at Cushing Street Bar & Restaurant, on the patio 198 W. Cushing Street in Tucson, Arizona just south of Tucson Convention Center 1 block east of Main Street admission is FREE The Cushing Street Poetry Series is sponsored by Chax Press, POG, & Cushing Street Bar & Restaurant. POG & CHAX PRESS events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. Please call Chax Press at 520-620-1626, or email chax@theriver. com, for more information. Do not inquire until June 19, please. **** Jeremy Frey occasionally writes poetry and short nonfiction pieces. He's published here and there but not everywhere. He graduated with his MFA in Creative Writing from the UofA in 2006, and he now teaches in the UA Writing Program. Wendy Burk is the author of a chapbook, The Deer, and the translator of Tedi Lopez Mills's While Light Is Built. Her work has appeared or is forthcoming in journals such as Colorado Review and Tin House. Wendy's poems and translations have also been anthologized in Connecting Lines: New Poetry From Mexico, from Sarabande Books, and the recently released Kore Press audio anthology Autumnal: A Collection of Elegies. Wendy received an MFA in Creative Writing from The University of Arizona, and has twice been named Artist-in-Residence with the National Park Service. Her most recent project, with Eric Magrane, is the invention of the poemgraph (TM) system: a revolution in poetry coming soon to a conference room near you. UNTITLED "List Poem" by Jeremy Frey Wrest in Peace Between Two Pillows The Belly of the Beloved The Sweet Waste Gargoyle Backslide I Went Blind Writing These Poems The Weight of Pillows You Gonna Eat That? Because I am a God Of the Eye, Singing I You Made the Shaman Giggle A Poem Domestic What Peter Jennings Didn't Tell You Spinach in the Teeth Pretension Boxley Valley by Wendy Burk Deer pass through the pasture under the moon as if in ceremony turning their ears toward the visitors staring smoothly and engaging memory whose memory -- who knows. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:51:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Thursday, July 05, 2007 at 3:50 PM steve d. dalachinsky" wrote: > copyrights? do you copyright every pome you write? right ??? > Actually, under the US Copyright law, any work is copyright by its creator upon creation. Copyright and registration of Copyright are two different animals. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:08:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Sinan Antoon Iraqi Poet, Filmmaker, Academic on Democracy Now today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Democracy Now's Amy Goodman has an interview wih Sinan Antoon during today'= s program. The writer/filmmaker reads some poems from his Baghdad Blues, = which was published January, 2007.Antoon moved to the USA after first Gulf = War, is a Professor and also author of novels & stories and co -creator of = the film Baghdad Now.It's a very interesting interview aand recommend it-- _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one pla= ce! Find it! http://maps.live.com/?wip=3D69&FORM=3DMGAC01= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:56:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: 13 by Marko Niemi Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The minimalist concrete poetry site at: http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ has been updated with 13 pieces by Marko Niemi. Though we might quibble over semantics, I think we can all agree that it is desirable to live in a world where more poems have the ability to move. Come, see, enjoy, live, love, learn. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 04:44:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: George Quasha Subject: art is / music is / poetry is -- 7 installations in the Kingston Sculpture Biennial 2007 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-424F5293; boundary="=======AVGMAIL-468E00EA5209=======" --=======AVGMAIL-468E00EA5209======= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-424F5293 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kingston Sculpture Biennial 2007 July 7 =96 October 20 including George Quasha =96=96 art is / music is / poetry is 7 public video installations presenting artists/musicians/poets saying what art or music or poetry is with ongoing recording of artists, musicians, poets toward a continuously changing art is / Kingston 2007 created in collaboration with Jenny Fox Uptown Kingston art is at Coffey Gallery =96=96 330 Wall Street poetry is at Alternative Books =96=96 35 North Front Street music is at Backstage Studios Productions (BSP) =96=96 323 Wall Street Midtown Kingston art is/Spanish at Feiden's Appliances =96=96 661 Broadway Kingston Rondout art is at ASK =96=96 97 Broadway music is at Deep Listening Space =96=96 75 Broadway Kingston outskirts art is / music is / poetry is at Old Ulster County Jail =96=96 61 Golden= Hill Drive Opening Day Events www.kingstonbiennial.org/Home.html Saturday, July 7 Noon-7:00 pm Performance by Linda Montano in=20 the former Ulster County Jail at Golden Hill;=20 also on view at the jail are sculptures and=20 installation works by 9 other artists, including George Quasha=92s art is / music is / poetry is 1:00 pm Main Gallery at the Arts Society of=20 Kingston opens Allusive Objects, featuring work=20 by Mimi Czjaka Graminski, Lyndon Preston, Raquel=20 Rabinovich, and Pamela Wallace, including George Quasha=92s art is 5:00-10:00 pm Opening reception, at Arts Society=20 of Kingston (97 Broadway) and The Livingroom Gallery (45 N. Front Street); the latter includes an exhibition of George=20 Quasha=92s axial drawings, and video: axial landscapes Sunday, July 8 1:00 =96 6:00 pm Regular visiting hours at the=20 former Ulster County Jail commence; jail will be=20 open to the public Friday-Sunday, 1:00-6:00 pm,=20 through Labor Day weekend. Includes art is / music is / poetry is. NOTE: art is is also on exhibit at the Samuel=20 Dorsky Museum (SUNY New Paltz) as part of: George Quasha: art is and Axial works in stone, graphite, and video June 23 =96 October 7 Three interrelated bodies of work and a video=20 project comprising short dialogues with nearly=20 600 artists recorded (in some 10 countries in 20=20 languages) commenting on =93what art is.=94 www.newpaltz.edu/museum/exhibitions/current.html George Quasha www.quasha.com www.baumgartnergallery.com www.stationhill.or= g --=======AVGMAIL-468E00EA5209======= Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-424F5293 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Content-Description: "AVG certification" No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.0/886 - Release Date: 7/4/2007 1:4= 0 PM --=======AVGMAIL-468E00EA5209=======-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:07:37 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just out of curiosity, Alison, do you publish your novels under the same name, or do you have a different "identity" when you write them? Alison Croggon wrote: Marcus, straw men are burning everywhere. Did you read anything I actually wrote? I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. Look it up: "moral rights" is a legal term. It's printed in the front of my published books. And, for the second time, no one was talking about suing. It's a good idea, no, for people to know their rights? Steve, as the author, you hold the copyright of anything you write by default. I have never been an artist who likes tugging my forelock or who feels that I ought to be so grateful to be published that I will allow my work to be bastardised for the sake of it; I have withdrawn poems from prestigious print journals if it seems that changing it against my better judgment is part of the deal. I do not accept my work being treated with disrespect by any publisher, and no writer should. And it happens that in seeking to protect the work as I intend it to be, the law is on my side. Murat, your idea of editing poetry is roughly speaking my policy at Masthead. I am responsible for shaping an issue and choosing the work that will go into it, and I will pick up what looks like typos or mistakes (we all make them) and very occasionally make suggestions in consultation with the author; but I feel that if I invite someone to contribute, I do so on good faith, because I like this work I have asked for. If I accept a poem, I publish the poem I have accepted, and I prefer to publish a number of poems by any particular author, to give (however small) an idea of range and sensibility. However, I don't agree that in more commercial circumstances editing is always without integrity or solely driven by commercial considerations. I'm as proud of my popular novels and take them as seriously as my poetry; in a funny way, what interests me about both, aside from the obvious desire that drives any work, is a question of formal intrigue: how possible is it to subvert generic form without breaking it, say, in the case of writing genre literature. I've encountered many degrees and means of editorial interference; for example, my US publisher - in a major but independent publishing house - is also my editor (an exception, rather than a rule, I agree, but it does happen) and they've never been anything but respectful. I've had my rows with commercial publishers (Penguin) and in fact won them. If I had not been an experienced writer, though, and a stubborn one, it might have been a different story. I have a lot of thoughts about bad editing and how deleterious it can be for a developing writer, but I won't go into them here. Like Andy, I enjoy editing, self-generated or otherwise, and it's always been an important part of my process. All best Alison -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 01:53:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Billowing and sovereignty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Billowing and sovereignty (From a letter) " - sometime would like to talk to you about this notion, the 'smoothed' lifeworld and the 'peering' around corners that I think constitutes memory and suturing - almost a form of billowing - I think this could be a useful concept for me. softness embraces both mental phenomena, mind, and the receiving, receptacle, organizing of things, identifying of things, surrounding of things, in the personal world and its extension, i.e. the 'peering' of the personal world. it's difficult to come to grips with the 'depth' of the real, that lip when classification is just beginning or just forgotten - when the real seems of a comfort, presencing ... " in billowing, the particulate disappears. stratigraphy loses the anecdote among the sublime. neither singular nor plural. nor something revealed - it would be easy, yes, to think through the sublime as a matter of revela- tion, next stop on the mystical train. but there's no vector, no plateau, no buddhas seated or otherwise, no intentional or contradictory language. the particular is the particular is asthmatic, urban dis-ease, the body at war, not with itself, but with differentiation. towards death distinctions disappear. there is no other side. "MR. KING [said] [...] The States were not 'Sovereigns' in the sense contended for by some. They did not possess the peculiar features of sovereignty, they could not make war, nor peace, nor alliances nor treaties. Considering them as political Beings, they were dumb, for they could not speak to any foreign Sovereign whatever. They were deaf, for they could not hear any propositions from such Sovereign. They had not even the organs or faculties of defence or offence, for they could not of themselves raise crops, or equip vessels, for war." [...] "MR. MARTIN, said he considered that the separation from G.B. placed the 13 States in a state of Nature towards each other; that they would have remained in that state till this time, but for the confederation" [...] (from Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 reported by James Madison) in a state of nature States jostle, states and operators jostle, processes jostle. nothing speaks unless spoken-to, when something speaking is speak- ing as spoken-for. from such collusion, collocations, rights arise through the etic; the emic, interiority, withdraws so that the membrane cloaks everything except digital transmissions - goods, speech, currencies, move- ment of men, materiel. in a state of nature, States billow forth, swell, breathe, engender, Mona Lisa smile. are songs sung? look, I'm putting forward a myth, not of origins nor of destinations, a myth of wayfarers, neither mapped nor mapping nor nomadic. look, I'm writing to you, here, see, in the absolute silence of protocols, which, along of all the things, processes, states, and operators, are soundless in the world. look, she said, did we ever have a government. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 01:42:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Carol Novack Subject: Mad Hatters' Review Issue 8 is UP Comments: To: NYCWriters@yahoogroups.com, e-pubs@yahoogroups.com, poetswearprada@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline *FEATURING * ** *POETRY BY *Hugh Fox Arun Gaur Tami= r Greenberg * Translated from the Hebrew by Tsipi Keller *Christine Hamm Sharron Hass * Translated from the Hebrew by Tsipi Keller * H. L. Hix Judith Kerman Karen Knight David Musgrave Sam Witt Stephanie Strickland Angela Szczepaniak Patience Agbabi David J. Constantine George Szirtes *FICTION BY: * Laurence Davies Jason Everett Andrea Fitzpatrick Kass Fleisher Elizabeth Block Steven Gillis Steve Gilmartin Vanessa Place Nicola Barker Aamer Hussein Gabr= iel Josipovici Deborah Levy S= ara Maitland *AUDIO FEATURES BY: Urayo=E1n Noel Zack Wentz * * AUDIO TEXT COLLAGE BY: by Davis Schneiderman, Don Meyer & Tom Denlinger Monuments To Indian Native First Nations American Tenacity in the Stacked Face of Continual Misrepresentation * *DRAMA BY: Sissy Boyd * *NON-FICTION BY: Patty Catto * *+ ART GALLERIES, MUSIC, RECITATIONS, BOOK REVIEWS, INTERVIEWS, ANIMATIONS, CARTOONS, CONTEST, MISC., & Miss Bitsy, the RABBIT * ** MAD HATTERS' REVIEW: Edgy & Enlightened Literature, Art & Music in the Age of Dementia: http://www.madhattersreview.com KEEP THE MAD HATTERS ALIVE! MAKE A TAX DEDUCTIBLE DONATION HERE: https://www.fracturedatlas.org/site/contribute/donate/580 http://carolnovack.blogspot.com/ CD: INVENTIONS I: Fictions, Fusions & Poems is available for purchase via: http://www.madhatthttersreview.com/cds_dvds/inventions1.html Review & Interview: http://www.outsiderwriters.org/content/view/319/1/ http://www.myspace.com/madhattercarollers http://www.myspace.com/madhattersreview ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:12:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: evolution and language In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Or, to put it another way, we may have entered a period when the rather imprecise metaphoric identification of all symbolic systems as language may obscure the profound differences between them. Mark >And, just as twentieth century science was >dominated by physics, so it seems the twenty first will be by studies deeply >involving language. Such as computation, genetics, and other types of >information. > >Yet, in most cases, apparently language/information/grammar without a >sentient author. > >Fascinating notions of poetry therein. > >ja >http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 13:31:58 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <908561d1b4e8aa7f397fd5d809be8687@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Many apologies for the careless conflation, George. Of course Canada has moral rights. xA On 7/6/07, George Bowering wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > > > I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > > fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. > > Nope, just in the US, I think. > > > > George Hendrik Bowering > Always ate his crusts. > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 23:00:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ric royer Subject: FW: There Were One and It Was Two Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_2129_6094_5bc1" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_2129_6094_5bc1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: ricroyer@gmail.com >Subject: There Were One and It Was Two >Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 19:45:13 -0400 > _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com ------=_NextPart_000_2129_6094_5bc1 Content-Type: text/plain; name=text1.txt; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="text1.txt"; Hello. Just wanted to let people know that I recently had a book/CD released by Narrow House Recordings, There Were One and It Was Two; Annotated Artifacts from the Doubles Museum. John Berndt provides sound on the cd. You can find it here on my website: http://ricroyer.com/therewereone.htm The webpage has photos from the release event, Baltimore City Paper review and info about the project. It will be available exclusively at Normals Books and Records in Baltimore for the month of July. After July it will be available at other places. Briefly, the piece is about the double in all of its funny, uncanny and frightening forms. There is a full description on the website. You will like it. You will. oh you will. ric ------=_NextPart_000_2129_6094_5bc1-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 03:15:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <908561d1b4e8aa7f397fd5d809be8687@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Steve, I do not factor into this. Martinis are mixed a million miles from pain and humility. steve d. dalachinsky wrote --- why sanctimony jesse do you honestly believe it's ok to change work and publisht without asking sanctimony? on who's part address this part of the issue directly what are your true thoughts on this issue and your part in it?? obviously if you stand silent we takeit that you think it's ok to alter someone's work beyond suggesting changes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 00:43:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Crockett Subject: The Oracle Hath Spoken MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dread not for abeyant empyreal. Suffice our tacit agencies this grief. Darth, Lord Vader ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 22:14:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Dworkin Subject: Ceravolo (Fits of Dawn) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear CA Conrad et al: Very glad to see that pdf circulating -- good work! I tried for YEARS to get Joseph's wife Rosemary to give me permission to put Fits of Dawn on Eclipse and she always refused -- in fact, she stopped even writing back.... Best, ::Craig Dworkin Editor, ECLIPSE http://english.utah.edu/eclipse ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:46:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: dearPUBLISHERS DEARpublishers josephCERAVOLO JOSEPHceravolo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline why are you the mammal to the feeling I have about taste? I alias to touch you and make ponds breed: As mosquitoes call you I hang on to you and keep falling on to your dress. --from "ROADS OF TRAILS," by Joseph Ceravolo Dear publishers: May we please have your attention? Or at this late hour, must we DEMAND your attention?!!! With this one, new PDF available for FITS OF DAWN by Mr. Ceravolo, I've received more than 80 requests, and that in less than 24 hours! And that of course does not include the hundreds of others already getting it from Joseph Massey and others! There are so many of us who Love his work. And there are a host of living witnesses to Mr. Ceravolo's genius, some of whom already edited a selected. You have a fucking guaranteed audience and Love here, so WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!? And when it comes out, PLEASE be wise enough to invite Simon Pettet to read! Simon Pettet's extraordinary tenderness for the work is inimitable, and literally sets the poems on a track inside the audience straight from ear to heart. Corny as you may think I am for saying so, it's true. Be wise, be clear, be the one to chip the ice away, please! Joseph Ceravolo is a No coffin! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 07:58:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Billowing and sovereignty In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At the moment, we have too much government for the wrong things. Health care for all should replace the Iraq war and all future wars. I really liked the beginning of your piece here but when it got into politics, it lowered itself a bit I'm afraid. The nature of reality will always be more interesting than George W. Bush or all of his predecessors and followers, in the temporal sense. Regards, Tom Savage Alan Sondheim wrote: Billowing and sovereignty (From a letter) " - sometime would like to talk to you about this notion, the 'smoothed' lifeworld and the 'peering' around corners that I think constitutes memory and suturing - almost a form of billowing - I think this could be a useful concept for me. softness embraces both mental phenomena, mind, and the receiving, receptacle, organizing of things, identifying of things, surrounding of things, in the personal world and its extension, i.e. the 'peering' of the personal world. it's difficult to come to grips with the 'depth' of the real, that lip when classification is just beginning or just forgotten - when the real seems of a comfort, presencing ... " in billowing, the particulate disappears. stratigraphy loses the anecdote among the sublime. neither singular nor plural. nor something revealed - it would be easy, yes, to think through the sublime as a matter of revela- tion, next stop on the mystical train. but there's no vector, no plateau, no buddhas seated or otherwise, no intentional or contradictory language. the particular is the particular is asthmatic, urban dis-ease, the body at war, not with itself, but with differentiation. towards death distinctions disappear. there is no other side. "MR. KING [said] [...] The States were not 'Sovereigns' in the sense contended for by some. They did not possess the peculiar features of sovereignty, they could not make war, nor peace, nor alliances nor treaties. Considering them as political Beings, they were dumb, for they could not speak to any foreign Sovereign whatever. They were deaf, for they could not hear any propositions from such Sovereign. They had not even the organs or faculties of defence or offence, for they could not of themselves raise crops, or equip vessels, for war." [...] "MR. MARTIN, said he considered that the separation from G.B. placed the 13 States in a state of Nature towards each other; that they would have remained in that state till this time, but for the confederation" [...] (from Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 reported by James Madison) in a state of nature States jostle, states and operators jostle, processes jostle. nothing speaks unless spoken-to, when something speaking is speak- ing as spoken-for. from such collusion, collocations, rights arise through the etic; the emic, interiority, withdraws so that the membrane cloaks everything except digital transmissions - goods, speech, currencies, move- ment of men, materiel. in a state of nature, States billow forth, swell, breathe, engender, Mona Lisa smile. are songs sung? look, I'm putting forward a myth, not of origins nor of destinations, a myth of wayfarers, neither mapped nor mapping nor nomadic. look, I'm writing to you, here, see, in the absolute silence of protocols, which, along of all the things, processes, states, and operators, are soundless in the world. look, she said, did we ever have a government. --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 11:47:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:35, Alison Croggon wrote: > I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > fact,< Disingenuous again -- you were "just stating" in context, and the context = made it an offering of your opinion -- else why speak at all? There was no ques= tion about what was legal and what wasn't; the question was what was ethical, n= ot what was legal. You dragged the law into a discussion of ethics and, like Thrasymachus, your opinion is inadequate. In the civil law if you want to talk about "illegal" you're talking enforc= ement, and enforcement means lawsuits. Otherwise you're blowing smoke. If you say you= were not talking suing, not talking lawsuits, then you were not talking ab= out anything worth talking about. There are no copyright cops reading the poet= ry magazines, looking for editors who change a poet's words, or looking for poets who fail to acknowledge the journals a poem has previously appeared in. When you start talking "legal", whether you're right or wrong, in the = civil law you're talking lawsuits, or you're not talking about anything, you're just= blathering. Since you insist you were not talking about suing, then I'll take it you r= ealize you were just blathering. On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:35, Alison Croggon wrote: > Steve, as the author, you hold the copyright of anything you write by > default. This is true -- but it's also irrelevant in a gift economy such as the poe= try business. It doesn't matter a whit unless you get hired to write lyrics fo= r Les Mis or Candide, or hired to do any writing, for that matter. Then who owns= the copyright matters, sure, and it's good if you get hired to do that kind of= writing that you consult an attorney and get the contract looked over closely. Fai= ling that, however, in the gift economy of poetry, all poets really want is to = get their poems out into the journals, books, and anthologies. There's no money in i= t, and as far as I know there's only been one case in living memory where someone was publishing someone else's poems as their own by changing the title and claiming them. Neither are editors unscrupulously minting money = by publishing poems and failing to tell the poets. Neither are the poets slyl= y getting rich by getting paid for the same poem sent out to journal after j= ournal. The whole thing, the whole notion of "legality" in a gift economy, is irre= levant. What poets want is credit for having written the thing; what editors want = is credit for having published it. Even if a poem is attributed to the wrong = poet, or a poem appears in two different journals, or any of that kind of thing, th= e law sees it as de minimus, and the law takes no notice of trivial things. Neither do the poets and editors sue each other, or even threaten it. The entire discussion about what's "legal" and what's not in the poetry gift economy is trivial and silly because no poet wants to be known as the poet= who sues editors, and no editor wants to be known as the editor who sues poets. It's a gift economy where goodwill is all there is, where there's n= ot enough cash value in the dispute to say "Fuck goodwill, show me the money"= . Even to talk about what's legal and what's not in a goodwill gift economy = is to raise the spectre of lawsuit because it just doesn't matter what's legal a= nd what's not in circumstances where the law takes no notice of the matter, a= nd would likely regard any lawsuit on the issue as de minimus. But once you start to get strident about what's legal in the civil law, yo= u're talking remedies, you're talking enforcement, you're talking lawsuit -- be= cause if you're not, then you're just not talking about any thing significant at= all. On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:35, Alison Croggon wrote: > I have never been an artist who likes tugging my forelock or who feels t= hat > I ought to be so grateful to be published that I will allow my work to b= e > bastardised for the sake of it; I have withdrawn poems from prestigious > print journals if it seems that changing it against my better judgment i= s > part of the deal. I do not accept my work being treated with disrespect = by > any publisher, and no writer should. And it happens that in seeking to > protect the work as I intend it to be, the law is on my side.< The law is irrelevant to the case because you can withdraw the poem and th= ey can refuse to publish it -- and that's all there is to it. No question of = law arises! No one makes any money worth fighting through the courts about by publishing poems, from either the writing or the publishing side. And if t= here were enough money to fight about, then the editors and publishers would wi= n, and you'd have to accept either being edited in your poetry work just as y= ou accept being edited in your journalism work, and for the same reasons: because the editors and publishers claim to know what the audience wants and how they want it, and they give it to them that way. And if you don't = want to let them edit your work as it must be edited to sell, then they'll get = someone else to write it -- just like journalism. You seem to fail to see the important issue here: that the reason that poe= ts can say "My way or no way" is that editors have no audience that they have= to pander to for money, and thus no motivation worth speaking of to try to compel poets to change their work. In short, the sad fact remains that poe= ts can say what they please because no one is listening. Marcus =A0 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:01:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Alison, I do not assign lack of integrity to editors of commercial publications. They have to do what they have to do, but their interests do not necessarily correspond to mine. They may do so for completely moral purposes, even believing they are improving the work. In terms of acceptance by the readership, the editor may even be right. But I may not be writing for a maximum number of readership, but for another reason. Perhaps one has something one needs to say and a specific way of saying it. The way of saying is as salient as the substance. Given the sacrifices in readership the poet has usually to make (or is willing to make or risks to make), I think he or she has the freedom to choose. What I do not like is adjectives like non-professionalism or capriciousness or naivete or foolishness applied to such behavior. Sometimes, I myself initiate the query whether the editor/publisher has an opinion about a specific line or passage, but it is all do within a framework of respect. What you say about genre works is very true, and movies contain many great examples of that. My quite long post on Hitchcock's movies about two weeks ago (including the "errors" in them) are partly about this process. I finished half of a detailed response to Alan Sondheim's final question in that thread. I did not have time to finish the rest. I hope Alan did not mind. I will finish it soon and post it. Alison, my experience with commercial publication -specifically due to that split between editor and publisher- was very unhappy. The French photographer French photographer asked me to write texts for fifteen photographers of Jews around the world, along with another twenty-four people. I described the project in greater detail during the thread about photography I just mentioned. I spent almost a year on those fifteen texts, spinning the idea of invisibility in photography, speculatively relating it to the Biblical junction, "Thou shalt not worship graven images." Both the editor and Frederic were happy and very excited about them. Then Frederic sold the entire project (two volumes, one consisting of his photographs and second of photographs surrounded by texts) to HarperCollins. The latter had other ideas about the project: to sell it as a collection of "high art" photographs and picturesque commentaries (tea pots, exotic clothing, etc.). The publication was kicked off with an exhibition at The Brooklyn Museum in New York next to Rodin sculptures -sadly. through the inflation, underplaying Frederic's very fine eye. HarperCollins assigned a free lance editor (one time working at The New Yorker) to the project. She was a very nice person and a concerned, sensitive editor, trying to reach a compromise, acceptable bridge between the HarperCollins editorial board -for whom a lot of this writing (at least my own) was beyond the pale- and me. She partly succeeded. Six of the pieces -in somewhat altered forms- entered the book. Six was I think the limit put by HarperCollins on all the writers. The fact is that what appeared in the book has nothing to do with I had written. Having already been paid by Frederic -from another account- a year before, I had no ownership of those pieces. The spirit of sustained exploration running throug the pieces -and I think through Frederic's own photos- was replaced by a bombastic, gumutlich project. In my opinion, that result was inevitable once Frederic Brenner chose to use a big power mainstream publisher, rather than more modest one. I am sure he made more money; I also believe the editorial decisions HarperCollins made, including cutting down the number of text, were right to bring across "significant Jewish art and culture." I experienced the whole thing as a disaster. Those pieces are waiting for their place to be visible. Ciao, Murat Marcus, straw men are burning everywhere. Did you read anything I actually > wrote? I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. Look it up: > "moral rights" is a legal term. It's printed in the front of my published > books. And, for the second time, no one was talking about suing. It's a > good > idea, no, for people to know their rights? > > Steve, as the author, you hold the copyright of anything you write by > default. > > I have never been an artist who likes tugging my forelock or who feels > that > I ought to be so grateful to be published that I will allow my work to be > bastardised for the sake of it; I have withdrawn poems from prestigious > print journals if it seems that changing it against my better judgment is > part of the deal. I do not accept my work being treated with disrespect by > any publisher, and no writer should. And it happens that in seeking to > protect the work as I intend it to be, the law is on my side. > > Murat, your idea of editing poetry is roughly speaking my policy at > Masthead. I am responsible for shaping an issue and choosing the work that > will go into it, and I will pick up what looks like typos or mistakes (we > all make them) and very occasionally make suggestions in consultation with > the author; but I feel that if I invite someone to contribute, I do so on > good faith, because I like this work I have asked for. If I accept a poem, > I > publish the poem I have accepted, and I prefer to publish a number of > poems > by any particular author, to give (however small) an idea of range and > sensibility. > > However, I don't agree that in more commercial circumstances editing is > always without integrity or solely driven by commercial considerations. > I'm > as proud of my popular novels and take them as seriously as my poetry; in > a > funny way, what interests me about both, aside from the obvious desire > that > drives any work, is a question of formal intrigue: how possible is it to > subvert generic form without breaking it, say, in the case of writing > genre > literature. I've encountered many degrees and means of editorial > interference; for example, my US publisher - in a major but independent > publishing house - is also my editor (an exception, rather than a rule, I > agree, but it does happen) and they've never been anything but respectful. > I've had my rows with commercial publishers (Penguin) and in fact won > them. > If I had not been an experienced writer, though, and a stubborn one, it > might have been a different story. I have a lot of thoughts about bad > editing and how deleterious it can be for a developing writer, but I won't > go into them here. > > Like Andy, I enjoy editing, self-generated or otherwise, and it's always > been an important part of my process. > > All best > > Alison > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:21:38 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit And George is here, thank goodness, to assert every last one of them! Alison Croggon wrote: Many apologies for the careless conflation, George. Of course Canada has moral rights. xA On 7/6/07, George Bowering wrote: > > On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > > > I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > > fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. > > Nope, just in the US, I think. > > > > George Hendrik Bowering > Always ate his crusts. > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:10:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Orange Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline conrad, let the bad manners fly on this one -- it's really shameful, the continuing neglect of ceravolo's work. and for all that was excluded from that recent selected, which now also is out of print. fits of dawn is indeed a wonder, which only makes one want a collected poems even more. it's can't be a huge book -- tho i heard a rumor that later in his life he wrote an extensive series of catholic/devotional poetry -- anyone back this up? if i had a nickel for every o'hara or ashbery disciple out there i'd gladly trade it all for a small school of ceravolo and i'd still be richer! is anyone in contact with ceravolo's wife/estate? allbests, tom orange ------------------ CA Conrad wrote: Joseph Massey made me VERY HAPPY today forwarding a PDF of Ceravolo's long out of print FITS OF DAWN, made me very very very fucking happy indeed! You can see the cover on The PhillySound, as well as links to PENNSOUND's Ceravolo page, which Eric Baus just alerted me to as well. Go here: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com I for one am SICK AND TIRED of the poetry world publishing endless crap and ignoring the fact that Ceravolo is out of print, except for the selected THE GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE. And no disrespect intended to the editors of the selected, but it doesn't BEGIN to give us the total JOLT that is Joseph Ceravolo! Whose cock do I have to suck to get the COLLECTED Ceravolo published! What a ridiculous fucking world this is when I see some of the boring shit being published in mass quantities and NO Ceravolo COLLECTED! OY! Makes my bad manners break loose! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:44:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City's Renegade Press Series at Vox Pop Fest, this Wknd Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable =20 please forward -------------------- =20 Vox Pop=B9s Declaration of Independence: A Festival of Poetry and Music =20 Featuring Boog City=B9s =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press series in exile =20 =20 Featuring seven of the area's finest publishers, with readings from their authors =20 =20 Vox Pop 1022 Cortelyou Rd. Flatbush, Brooklyn 718-940-2084 http://www.voxpopnet.net Vox Pop has a swell menu: http://voxpopnet.net/images/menuONLINE_8.5_300.pdf Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =20 Featured Presses=20 (with hosts/curators and authors): =20 (press and author bios and urls follow this schedule) (complete festival information is at the end of this email) =20 Sat. July 7 =20 1:00 p.m.-2:00 p.m. Futurepoem Books=20 (editor Dan Machlin) =20 Merry Fortune Serena Jost Rachel Levitsky Machlin and special guests. =20 =20 3:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (editor Brenda Iijima) =20 Jennifer Firestone Martha Oatis Evelyn Reilly Christina Strong and=20 special guest=20 Cecilia Wu =20 =20 5:00 p.m.-6:00 p.m. Belladonna* Books=20 (co-editor Rachel Levitsky) =20 Corina Copp Joanna Fuhrman Nada Gordon Tim Peterson or Trace =20 and =20 Litmus Press/Aufgabe (poetry editor Paul Foster Johnson) =20 Brenda Iijima=20 Idra Novey =20 =20 6:00 p.m.-7:00 p.m. Ugly Duckling Presse (collective member Garth Graeper) =20 Steve Dalachinsky Edwin Frank Elizabeth Reddin Laura Solomon =20 =20 Sun. July 8 =20 1:00 p.m.-2:00 p.m. Kitchen Press=20 (editor Justin Marks) =20 Ana Bozicevic-Bowling Chris Tonelli =20 =20 3:00 p.m.-4:00 p.m. Wilderside Media=20 (co-editors Ian and Kimberly Wilder) =20 Ellen Pober Rittberg Lois Walker George Wallace Ian Wilder Kimberly Wilder =20 =20 5:00 p.m.-6:00 p.m. Bowery Books=20 (Bowery Women: Poems co-editor Marjorie Tesser) =20 Tsaurah Litzky Amy Ouzoonian Mary Reilly Gabriella Santoro Tesser =20 =20 ------ =20 Press and author bios =20 **Belladonna* Books http://belladonnaseries.blogspot.com/ Founded as a reading series at a women=B9s radical bookstore in 1999, Belladonna* is a feminist avant-garde event and publication series that promotes the work of women writers who are adventurous, politically involved, multi-form, multicultural, multi-gendered, unpredictable, dangerous with language (to the death machinery). In its eight-year history= , Belladonna* has featured such writers as Julie Patton, kari edwards, Leslie Scalapino, Alice Notley, Erica Hunt, Fanny Howe, Mei-mei Berssenbrugge, Cecilia Vicu=F1a, Latasha Natasha Nevada Diggs, Camille Roy, Nicole Brossard, Abigail Child, Norma Cole, Lydia Davis, Gail Scott, Renee Gladman, Rachel Blau Duplessis, Marcella Durand, and Lila Zemborain, along with nearly 100 other experimental and hybrid women writers. The curators promote work that is explicitly experimental in form, connects with other art forms, and is political and/or critical in content. Alongside the readings, Belladonna* supports its artists by publishing commemorative chaplets of their work on the night of the event. Please contact us (Erica Kaufman, Rachel Levitsky e= t al) at belladonnaseries@yahoo.com to receive a catalog and be placed on our list. =20 *Corina Copp http://www.fauxpress.com/e/copp/ Corina Copp is the author of a Belladonna pamphlet, Play Air, as well as th= e e-book Carpeted (Faux Press). Recent work is forthcoming in 6x6 and Denver Quarterly. Her short play, "A Week of Kindness," was produced in May at the Ontological Incubator's Tiny Theater Festival. She lives in Brooklyn and is headed for Nashville. =20 *Joanna Fuhrman http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=3D179254 http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/19069 Joanna Fuhrman is the author of three books of poetry, Freud in Brooklyn, Ugh Ugh Ocean, and Moraine, all published by Hanging Loose Press. She lives in Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn. =20 *Nada Gordon http://ululate.blogspot.com Nada Gordon is the author of five books, including the recently released Folly. She is a founding member of the Flarf Collective. =20 *Tim Peterson or Trace http://www.chax.org/poets/peterson.htm http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3DContent&pa=3Dlist_pages_categories= & cid=3D229 http://chax.org/eoagh/issue3/issuethree.html Tim Peterson, or Trace, is the author of Since I Moved In (Chax Press), edits EOAGH: A Journal of the Arts (recent issue Queering Language), and co-curates a portion of the Segue Reading Series. =20 =20 **Bowery Books http://www.boweryartsandscience.org/programs/bowerybooks.htm http://www.bowerypoetry.com/bowerywomen http://www.myspace.com/bowerywomen The Bowery Poetry Club=B9s new publishing imprint has launched three books: Taylor Mead=B9s A Simple Country Girl, Bowery Women: Poems, and The Bowery Bartenders Big Book of Poems. =20 *Tsaurah Litzky http://www.tsaurahlitzky.com Tsaurah Litzky=B9s most recent poetry chapbook is Crazy Lust, out from Snapdragon Press. Baby On the Water=8BNew and Collected Poems, 1992-2003 was published by Long Shot Press. When not writing poetry, she writes fiction, nonfiction, and erotica. Her erotic novella, The Motion of the Ocean, was published by Simon & Schuster as part of Three the Hard Way, a series of erotic novellas edited by Susie Bright. Litzky teaches erotic writing at Th= e New School. =20 *Amy Ouzoonian http://www.locknloadpublishing.com Amy Ouzoonian is a main stem at Steve Cannon=B9s Gathering of the Tribes communal art space, where she hosts reading series, works for Tribes zine, and edits anthologies, including In the Arms of Words: Poems for Disaster Relief (Foothills Publishing/Sherman Asher Press) and Skyscrapers, Taxis an= d Tampons (Fly by Night Press). She is the publisher and founder of Lock n=B9 Load Press, and the author of a book of poems, Your Pill (Foothills Publishing). She lives and writes in Brooklyn, N.Y. =20 *Mary Reilly Mary Reilly is a visual artist and poet who studied at Bard College and in the Study Abroad on the Bowery program. She is doing a residency at the Art Students League. =20 *Gabriella Santoro Gabriella Santoro is from the Bronx. She has a certificate in Applied Poetics from Bowery Arts & Sciences, and spent a summer in Boulder, Colo. a= t the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics at Naropa University. She also has a G.E.D., a B.A. from Columbia University, and was working on a doctorate in developmental psychology when she realized she needed more tim= e to write poetry. She lives in an intentional community in NYC. =20 *Marjorie Tesser Marjorie Tesser is a poet and an editor for Bowery Books. She is a co-edito= r of Bowery Women: Poems and curates a reading series based on the book. She also co-edits The Mom Egg, a journal, with Alana Free. She serves on the board of Four Way Books. =20 =20 **Futurepoem Books http://www.futurepoem.com/ Founded in 2002, Futurepoem books is a publishing collaborative dedicated t= o presenting innovative contemporary poetry, prose, and multigenre works of literature by emerging and underrepresented authors. Our rotating editorial panel shares the responsibility for selecting and promoting the books we produce. Recent authors include Jill Magi, Laura Mullen, Merry Fortune, Shanxing Wang, and Jo Ann Wasserman. Futurepoem is funded in part by funds from The New York State Council on the Arts, a state agency. =20 *Merry Fortune http://www.myspace.com/merryfortunelovedogsofmisfortune Merry Fortune is a musician and environmentalist and the author of the book of poems ghosts by albert ayler, ghosts by albert ayler (Futurepoem books). She is working on a book about Shalom Neuman=B9s FusionArt and the FusionArts Museum and has been compiling information about Indians and environmentalism. =20 *Serena Jost http://www.myspace.com/serenajost http://www.serenamusic.com Serena Jost is a singer-songwriter and cellist and the official lyricist-in-residence at Futurepoem. Her new full-length CD, produced by Brad Albetta at MonkeyBoy Studios, will be released in the fall. In additio= n to her own work, she has toured and performed with many bands and songwriters, including Rasputina, Rex, Him, Illuminati, and The Luminescent Orchestrii. =20 *Rachel Levitsky http://www.conjunctions.com/webcon/levitskyrachel.htm http://www.belladonnaseries.blogspot.com/ Rachel Levitsky is the author of Under the Sun and is about to complete the manuscript of a treatise called Neighbor. A segment of her novella =B3The Story of My Accident is Ours=B2 is online at Conjunctions (see above). =20 *Dan Machlin http://www.tarpaulinsky.com/Mar-Apr-05/Machlin/Machlin.html Dan Machlin=B9s first full-length book of poems is forthcoming from Ugly Duckling Presse this fall. He is the author of several chapbooks =B36x7=B2 (Ugl= y Duckling Presse), =B3This Side Facing You=B2 (Heart Hammer), and =B3In Rem=B2 (@ Press). His poems and reviews have recently appeared or are forthcoming in Antennae, Boog Lit, Crayon, Cy Press, Fence, Soft Targets, and Tarpaulin Sky. He is the founding editor and publisher of Futurepoem books. =20 =20 **Kitchen Press http://www.kitchenpresschapbooks.blogspot.com/ Kitchen Press is a micro-press run out of Hell=B9s Kitchen, NYC, and is a member of CLMP. Its purpose is to publish quality handmade chapbooks by emerging poets. =20 *Ana Bozicevic-Bowling Ana Bozicevic-Bowling is a Croatian poet writing in English. She co-edits RealPoetik. Look for her recent work in the Denver Quarterly, In Posse, The New York Quarterly, Octopus Magazine, her chapbook Document (Octopus Books, forthcoming), and The Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel - Second Floor . =20 *Chris Tonelli Chris Tonelli lives in Cambridge, Mass. where he runs The So and So Series. He has work forthcoming in Drunken Boat, Good Foot, H_NGM_N, and Open Letters, and the anthologies The Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel =AD Second Floor and Outside Voices=B9 2008 Anthology of Younger Poets. His chapbook, Wide Tree: Short Poems, is available from Kitchen Press. =20 =20 **Litmus Press/Aufgabe http://www.litmuspress.org/index.htm Litmus Press is the publishing program of Ether Sea Projects, Inc., a 501(c)(3) non-profit literature and arts organization dedicated to supporting innovative, cross-genre writing, with an emphasis on poetry and international works in translation. =20 We aim to foster local, national, and international dialogue and interactio= n by presenting original writing from the U.S. alongside translations into English. By supporting translators, poets, and other writers, and by organizing and participating in public events, we hope to illuminate the fundamental common bond between languages and to actualize the potential linguistic, cultural, and political benefits of literary exchange on the international level. We seek to provide continuing and consistently high quality venues for such exchange and discussion to ensure that our poetic communities remain open-minded and vital. =20 *Brenda Iijima http://www.yoyolabs.com Brenda Iijima is the author of Around Sea (O Books). Her book of drawings, collages, and poems, Animate, Inanimate Aims, is just out from Litmus Press= . She was the runner-up for Ahsahta Press's Sawtooth Prize, selected by Peter Gizzi, with her book, If Not Metamorphic, to be published by Ahsahta. Forthcoming from Fewer & Further Press is the chapbook Rabbit Lesson. She i= s the editor of Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 *Idra Novey Idra Novey=B9s poetry and translations have appeared in the journals Circumference, The Literary Review, Poetry International, Washington Square= , and Rattapallax, where she is an editor. She has received a grant from the PEN Translation Fund and is at work on a translated collection of poems by Brazilian writer Paulo Henriques Britto. She teaches writing at Columbia University. =20 =20 **Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs http://yoyolabs.com/ Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs publishes poetic works: subtle and intense forms of public exchange and autonomous expressions=8Bdynamic in awareness=8Bluminous in form. =20 Emphasis: diversity and interconnection=8Bsocial, cultural, environmental, an= d aesthetic. =20 *Jennifer Firestone http://yoyolabs.com/firestone.html Jennifer Firestone is the author of Holiday, an interrogation of the relationships among observation, travel, and consumerism, which is forthcoming from Shearsman Books. Her chapbooks from Flashes, an excerpt from a long prose poem exploring money, war, and urban culture, and snapshot, which is a selection from Holiday, are published by Sona Books. Her work has appeared in numerous journals, including Boog City, Can We Hav= e Our Ball Back, Dusie, 580 Split, 14 Hills, How2, MIPOesias, and Moria. She is the co-editor of the anthology Letters To Poets: Conversations About Poetics, Politics and Community, forthcoming from Saturnalia Books, and the recipient of grant-supported writing residencies at the Ragdale Foundation, the Constance Saltonstall Foundation for the Arts, and the Vermont Studio Center. Jennifer lives in Brooklyn with her partner and their infant twins. She is Poet in Residence at Eugene Lang College at the New School University. =20 *Martha Oatis http://yoyolabs.com/oatis.html Martha Oatis grew up in Massachusetts and lives in Brooklyn. She teaches poetry in the New York public school system. from Two Percept is her first chapbook. =20 *Evelyn Reilly Evelyn Reilly lives in New York City and writes poetry, as well as text for museum exhibits on historical and cultural subjects. Her first book, Hiatus= , was published by Barrow Street Press and selected by Cole Swenson as a runner-up for the Poetry Society of America=B9s Norma Farber First Book Award= . In addition to her chapbook from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, recent work can be found in Lungfull! and How2, as well as other journals. Reilly has taught visual poetics at the Poetry Project and co-curates a winter segment of the Segue Reading Series. She is pondering the relation of ecology and poetry, and is editing ) ((eco (lang) (uage ( reader)), a collection of essays on the subject with Brenda Iijima. *Christina Strong http://www.openmouth.org http://www.bookwhore.com Christina Strong is the author of Accede (Openmouth) and Utopian Politics (Faux Press e-book). =20 **Ugly Duckling Presse http://www.uglyducklingpresse.org/ Ugly Duckling Presse is a small, collectively run press based in Brooklyn. It produces books and hand-bound chapbooks of contemporary American poetry, "lost" literary works, collaborations between poets and artists, and works in translation, as well as the poetry periodical 6x6 and a free newspaper o= f art and politics, New York Nights. Recent and forthcoming publications include books by local poets Elizabeth Reddin and Kostas Anagnopoulos, translations of the Romanian poet Mariana Marin and the Czech poet Ivan Blatny, and the complete minimal poems of Aram Saroyan. =20 *Steve Dalachinsky Steve Dalachinsky=B9s books include The Final Nite & Other Poems (Ugly Duckling Presse), Trial and Error in Paris (Loudmouth Collective Press), In Glorious Black and White (Ugly Duckling Presse), Race Poems w/Nathaniel Farrell (collages only) (Ugly Duckling Presse), Trust Fund Babies (Pitchfor= k Press), and Poems for Laureamont (Furniture Press). His work is included in The Outlaw Bible of American Poetry. His CDs include Incomplete Directions, I Thought It Was the End of the World, and Pray for Me. =20 *Edwin Frank Edwin Frank is the author of Stack and The Further Adventures of Pinocchio. In his spare time he edits the NYRB Classics series. =20 *Elizabeth Reddin Elizabeth Reddin was born in Torrance , Calif. at the Little Company of Mar= y Hospital, and she moved to New York City in 1993. She plays music in the story band Legends with Raquel Vogl and James Loman, and teaches GED classes. Her work has been published in the Brooklyn Rail as well as UDP=B9s New York Nights newspaper and 6x6 poetry magazine. Please write to her at elizabethreddin@gmail.com. =20 *Laura Solomon http://weirddeermedia.com/2007/05/dear-travis/ Laura Solomon=B9s books include Bivouac (Slope Editions), Blue and Red Things (Ugly Duckling Presse), and Haiku des Pierres / Haiku of Stones by PierreConverset (Apog=E9e Press), the latter a translation from the French with Sika Fakambi. Recently her work has appeared alongside London artist Abel Auer=B9s in the traveling exposition and anthology Poets on Painters, an= d in various magazines including Cannibal, the Denver Quarterly, and Weird Deer. Originally from the southeast, she has traveled to 29 of the 50 states, has lived in France, and is on route for Italy. She works as an adult literacy tutor in Philadelphia, where she lives with musician Nicola Battisti and their cat Drambuie. =20 =20 **Wilderside Media http://www.onthewilderside.net Wilderside Media supports independent politics, local music, and poetry on Long Island. Wilderside Media does publicity to the local media and on a popular blog; hosts its own events; videotapes a variety of community programs; and broadcasts on the web and on public access television. Wilderside Media=B9s presence is often signaled by the appearance of multi-colored fliers providing a constant flow of information on what is happening in the world of culture and politics. =20 *Ellen Pober Rittberg Ellen Pober Rittberg is a poet, playwright, and fiction writer. Her essays and feature writing has appeared in the N.Y. Daily News, The New York Times= , and Newsday. Her poems have appeared in Flutter Journal, Kansas Quarterly, and Long Island Quarterly. =20 *Lois Walker http://www.loisvwalker.com Lois Walker, a retired school teacher, is a widely published poet; a retire= d chairperson of the Long Island Poetry Collective; a past editor of Xanadu, an international little magazine for poetry, among other volumes of poetry and art; and a practicing artist whose visual artwork has been shown in Europe and throughout the United States. She read her =B3Nadezhda Poems,=B2 a sequence written on poets persecuted under Stalin, in Santa Monica, Calif. for =B3Inner Exiles: Shadow Poets, Paintings & Poetry,=B2 a solo show of her ar= t work at the Sylvia White Gallery. *George Wallace http://www.myspace.com/ggwallace George Wallace is author of 14 chapbooks published in the U.S., U.K., and Italy, and editor of Poetrybay, Poetryvlog and other literary publications. A regular on the performance scene in Manhattan, he travels widely to perform his work and to teach creative writing workshops, including recent appearances at the Woody Guthrie Festival (Oklahoma), Kerouac Festival (Lowell, Mass.), Rexroth Festival (Cleveland), the Beat Museum (San Francisco), and Dylan Thomas Centre (Wales). He was named first poet laureate for Suffolk County in 2003. *Ian Wilder Ian Wilder is the former Green Party of New York State co-chair. His spoken word appears on the Nylon & Steel album Slip Behind the Molecule. =20 *Kimberly Wilder The War in Iraq is a constant weight on Kimberly Wilder=B9s thoughts. She is trying to do poetry anyway. Fallujah. =20 ---- =20 Celebrate American Revolution: Independence Day Week at Vox Pop! =20 1022 Cortelyou Road Brooklyn NY 11218 Drew@voxpopnet.net 718.940.2084 =20 Vox Pop is celebrating America's independence the only way we know how: with community-empowering events, live music, an art opening, and lots of BBQ, all week long. =20 Spend your Independence Day with Vox Pop as we discuss Brooklyn's role in the American Revolution with =B3Meet the Cortelyous,=B2 a presentation on the namesake for our street: Jaques Cortelyou. Borough of Brooklyn historian Ro= n Schweiger will give a talk from 2-3 PM. For lunch, grill master =B3T=EDo Tim=B2 serves up dry-rubbed lamb, ribs, chicken, and rabbit (as well as veggie kebabs and veggie burgers) grilled with =B3T=EDo Tim=B9s Top Secret Sauce.=B2 From = 7 PM to 8:30 PM, vaudevillian performer/magician/escape artist Jared Rydelek and others will perform the Vox Pop Variety Show. Bring friends and family for a truly unique Fourth of July picnic at Vox Pop! =20 July 5th puts the spotlight on local independent artists with =B3An American Response,=B2 an art opening with live music, delicious food, and original art beginning at 7 PM. Protests and pamphlets aren=B9t the only way to speak your mind, and we=B9re giving Brooklyn=B9s established and up-and-coming artists a chance to promote their message as well as their work in the largest group art show in Vox Pop=B9s history. Artists will include photographer George Hirose and painter Andrew Lenaghan, alongside the work of their students an= d contemporaries. The BBQ starts at 1 PM, so get there early to grab your plate before the festivities start! =20 July 6th kicks off Vox Pop's =B3Declaration of Independence: A Festival of Poetry and Music=B2 at 1 PM and continuing all weekend with the Buffalo Poets and Boog City=B9s d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press series in exile. There will also be a reading from the late Reverend Pedro Pietri=B9s I= f You Can Sleep, You are Heartless by his son, Speedo Pietri, and BBQ will be served from 1-9 PM amid live music and poetry readings all weekend. =20 On July 7th, editor Michael Tyrell will present selections from Broken Land= : Poems of Brooklyn, followed by readings from authors published by Futurepoe= m Books, Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs, Belladonna Books, Litmus Press/Aufgabe= , and Ugly Duckling Presse. =20 July 8th brings writers from Kitchen Press, Wilderside Media, and Bowery Books to the stage to wrap up a weekend of words, music, and irresistible food. =20 --=20 =20 Sander Hicks Chief Instigator Vox Pop DKMC http://voxpopnet.net =20 718 940 2084 718 940 0346 (f) 347 446 4461 (c) =20 1022 Cortelyou Road Flatbush, Brooklyn, NY 11218 =20 ---- =20 Directions: Q to Cortelyou, F to Ditmas Venue is at Stratford Road =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:37:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <714966.86950.qm@web86010.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline "The specific power of contemporary poetry may lie in its arcane randomness... Poets, I think, have a stronger and more phantasmagoric sense of audience than visual artists who nowadays conceive almost exclusively of people in the business (other artists, dealers, patrons, curators, assorted gargoyles) staring at their work -staring it down, I mean." Bill Berkson, Sudden Addresses, 2007 Ciao, Murat On 7/6/07, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > And George is here, thank goodness, to assert every last one of them! > > Alison Croggon wrote: Many apologies for the > careless conflation, George. Of course Canada has > moral rights. > > xA > > On 7/6/07, George Bowering wrote: > > > > On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > > > > > I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > > > fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. > > > > Nope, just in the US, I think. > > > > > > > George Hendrik Bowering > > Always ate his crusts. > > > > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:42:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <714966.86950.qm@web86010.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's just that we people from Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, Panama, etc. wonder how come the people in the US call their one country "America." Why not go a little further and call it "The World"? Well, I guess that does happen-- while watching a baseball game on TV lately, I heard an announcer refer to the "World Champion St. Louis Cardinals." This despite the Japanese baseball team winning the World Championship in a game against Cuba. On Jul 6, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > And George is here, thank goodness, to assert every last one of them! > > Alison Croggon wrote: Many apologies for the > careless conflation, George. Of course Canada has > moral rights. > > xA > > On 7/6/07, George Bowering wrote: >> >> On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: >> >>> I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal >>> fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. >> >> Nope, just in the US, I think. >> >> >>> George Hendrik Bowering >> Always ate his crusts. >> > > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > > George B. Author of his own misfortunes. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:32:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: happy birthday to the dalai lama & g w bush MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Unless Maxine Chernoff was totally wrong last year when she mentioned this in an email on the Humorous Poetry listserv, today is the birthday of the Dalai Lama and G W Bush. Gabe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:03:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: Billowing and sovereignty In-Reply-To: <126267.25300.qm@web31109.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'm not sure what politics you're reading into the text. What was and still is of interest is the idea of mute/state of Nature political entities, as if there were inchoate forms that were only capable of organization within/beneath an Absolute. Bush is nowhere to be found in the text. On the other hand, Madison's notes are fascinating since they indicate the phenomenology of birth in a sense - just as the Federalist and anti-Federalist papers give voice to its conclusion. - Alan On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Thomas savage wrote: > At the moment, we have too much government for the wrong things. > Health care for all should replace the Iraq war and all future wars. I > really liked the beginning of your piece here but when it got into > politics, it lowered itself a bit I'm afraid. The nature of reality > will always be more interesting than George W. Bush or all of his > predecessors and followers, in the temporal sense. Regards, Tom Savage > > Alan Sondheim wrote: Billowing and sovereignty > > > (From a letter) " - sometime would like to talk to you about this notion, > the 'smoothed' lifeworld and the 'peering' around corners that I think > constitutes memory and suturing - almost a form of billowing - I think > this could be a useful concept for me. softness embraces both mental > phenomena, mind, and the receiving, receptacle, organizing of things, > identifying of things, surrounding of things, in the personal world and > its extension, i.e. the 'peering' of the personal world. it's difficult to > come to grips with the 'depth' of the real, that lip when classification > is just beginning or just forgotten - when the real seems of a comfort, > presencing ... " > > in billowing, the particulate disappears. stratigraphy loses the anecdote > among the sublime. neither singular nor plural. nor something revealed - > it would be easy, yes, to think through the sublime as a matter of revela- > tion, next stop on the mystical train. but there's no vector, no plateau, > no buddhas seated or otherwise, no intentional or contradictory language. > > the particular is the particular is asthmatic, urban dis-ease, the body at > war, not with itself, but with differentiation. towards death distinctions > disappear. there is no other side. > > "MR. KING [said] [...] The States were not 'Sovereigns' in the sense > contended for by some. They did not possess the peculiar features of > sovereignty, they could not make war, nor peace, nor alliances nor > treaties. Considering them as political Beings, they were dumb, for they > could not speak to any foreign Sovereign whatever. They were deaf, for > they could not hear any propositions from such Sovereign. They had not > even the organs or faculties of defence or offence, for they could not of > themselves raise crops, or equip vessels, for war." [...] > > "MR. MARTIN, said he considered that the separation from G.B. placed the > 13 States in a state of Nature towards each other; that they would have > remained in that state till this time, but for the confederation" [...] > > (from Notes of Debates in the Federal Convention of 1787 reported by James > Madison) > > in a state of nature States jostle, states and operators jostle, processes > jostle. nothing speaks unless spoken-to, when something speaking is speak- > ing as spoken-for. from such collusion, collocations, rights arise through > the etic; the emic, interiority, withdraws so that the membrane cloaks > everything except digital transmissions - goods, speech, currencies, move- > ment of men, materiel. in a state of nature, States billow forth, swell, > breathe, engender, Mona Lisa smile. > > are songs sung? look, I'm putting forward a myth, not of origins nor of > destinations, a myth of wayfarers, neither mapped nor mapping nor nomadic. > look, I'm writing to you, here, see, in the absolute silence of protocols, > which, along of all the things, processes, states, and operators, are > soundless in the world. > > look, she said, did we ever have a government. > > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:45:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gwyn McVay Subject: The Marcus Bales Listserv Drinking Game - Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468E2BC0.32077.10F1200@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Disingenuous again -- I am now on three different poetry-related listservs to which Mr. Bales is, or has been, subscribed. Based on this experience, I've been trying to work out a drinking game -- for example, the most obvious occasion for taking a drink is when Marcus accuses someone of being disingenuous. The problem, however, is that he flings this word around with such giddy abandon that you could easily get sloshed before the day is half over. Obviously there are still a few bugs in the system. Back to trying to find a copy of the Joseph Ceravolo PDF, because I think "caribou" is more of a word to conjure with than "disingenuous" -- Gwyn (Hey, there's still gin in that lime slice!) McVay ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:48:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are many rumors that Ceravolo's wife is the problem. I've heard this from several people. But I've also heard marvelous stories about her from my friend John Coletti who has been to see her, and she gave him copies of books, beautiful, rare gifts, and stories, and how nice is that? Very nice! What would it take? What plot to loosen the valve on all that Love? Has no one any charm left? Silly, of course! Much charm to go around, right?!!!! Hm, well, what's next? We admit we have charm, we know the road block. How hard can it be, right?!!!! If only a Ceravolo COLLECTED could impeach Bush! If only it could stop bleeding, a COLLECTED compress too for lumps! The magic of poems. Put it in my imaginary womb and pluck out a goat I know I'm capable of making! My sweet little goat. I Love my little goat. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:15:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: dearPUBLISHERS DEARpublishers josephCERAVOLO JOSEPHceravolo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I would like to second what you have to say about Joe Ceravolo. I have known his work for many years and it is truly marvelous. I hope it is still readily available. Regards, Tom Savage CA Conrad wrote: why are you the mammal to the feeling I have about taste? I alias to touch you and make ponds breed: As mosquitoes call you I hang on to you and keep falling on to your dress. --from "ROADS OF TRAILS," by Joseph Ceravolo Dear publishers: May we please have your attention? Or at this late hour, must we DEMAND your attention?!!! With this one, new PDF available for FITS OF DAWN by Mr. Ceravolo, I've received more than 80 requests, and that in less than 24 hours! And that of course does not include the hundreds of others already getting it from Joseph Massey and others! There are so many of us who Love his work. And there are a host of living witnesses to Mr. Ceravolo's genius, some of whom already edited a selected. You have a fucking guaranteed audience and Love here, so WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!? And when it comes out, PLEASE be wise enough to invite Simon Pettet to read! Simon Pettet's extraordinary tenderness for the work is inimitable, and literally sets the poems on a track inside the audience straight from ear to heart. Corny as you may think I am for saying so, it's true. Be wise, be clear, be the one to chip the ice away, please! Joseph Ceravolo is a No coffin! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:48:12 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468E2BC0.32077.10F1200@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marcus, since you present yourself as being expert in legal matters, and since you also express disdain for those you see as opining on such matters with inadequate knowledge--perhaps you can clear up a curiosity of mine: It seems to me that if poets don't sue, it's because they don't believe they can afford to do so. But let's say a publisher mangled the work I'd entrusted him with in this gift economy of ours, and I decided I could afford to sue (let's pretend I was James Merrill, for instance, only alive)--would I have a case? Or would the fact that I had suffered no financial damage through the misplublication of my work mean that I had nothing to sue for? In other words, do you think I could claim damages just because of the misrepresentation of the work itself, or must I claim some actual or potential financial loss? (Just to make it clear, this is a hypothetical instance.) By the way, do you really have to sue to take legal action? Isn't just threatening to sue often enough to get your way? Maybe such things happen more in the UK poetry world than the US one. I remember reading an obit of Gael Turnbull which mentioned that early on, he had invited Philip Larkin to contribute to a publication he was editing. Larkin obliged, but when he realized that this was to be an "avant-garde" publication, he had his lawyer send a letter demanding the return of the poems, unpublished--and of course Turnbull did so. Also, I've been told that Ian Hamilton Finlay sued the great Fulcrum Press over an edition of his work that they'd published, and that this was part of the reason why the press folded. However, I don't know that this is true. In an interview in Jacket in 2001, Finlay was asked about this and did not mention a lawsuit: "The dispute with Fulcrum Press was quite bizarre. The Dancers Inherit The Party had been published twice, and Fulcrum Press asked if they could publish it again and, after I had signed the contract, they informed me that they intended to describe it as a first edition. But it patently was not a first edition, it was a third edition. At this point I wrote to the Arts Council of Great Britain because they gave a grant to the publisher and I said public money shouldn’t be used to subsidise fraudulent editions. This is very clear and quite simple, but they wrote back to me very rudely telling me to mind your own business, and things like that. "So, I wrote to the Scottish Arts Council, which had short-listed the second edition of the book for a prize two years before. They told me that if London says that it is a first edition then it must be a first edition. Then I wrote to the Association of Little Presses and they said something like; ‘You’re selfishly spoiling a good racket’, because you get more money for the first edition! I found all this extraordinary! "Then I got the parliamentary ombudsman to make an investigation and he consulted the British Museum who confirmed that the book couldn’t be a first edition. But when they were asked to say that publicly, they refused to do so. The National Library of Scotland, a copyright library which received editions of all my books, also refused to say anything. It is extraordinary that something so clear could be deliberately ignored like this. My position was really quite simple, I didn’t wish to take part in a fraud on the public. But at that time most poets either were published by Fulcrum, or wished to be published by Fulcrum, so they seemed to consider me a danger, and after six years I was completely isolated. Nobody spoke to me anymore, and people were saying ‘it is not nice to fight’ and all this kind of thing. "So, then, I went to the Consumer Protection Department which sent the book to Sotheby’s whose expert on literary fraud, a man called Carter, said that it could not be a first edition, took the publisher to court, and got the ruling that I was right. It then took the Arts Council Of Great Britain a further two years to accept the court ruling and to apologise to me. But I was never forgiven, I was always reminded that I did something terrible. The fact that I was proven right counted for nothing at all. What people remembered was that I had cause a lot of trouble to these institutions by asking them to stand up and speak a simple truth. But it was very instructive to me! This was when I first realised what culture is." Marcus Bales wrote: On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:35, Alison Croggon wrote: > I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > fact,< Disingenuous again -- you were "just stating" in context, and the context made it an offering of your opinion -- else why speak at all? There was no question about what was legal and what wasn't; the question was what was ethical, not what was legal. You dragged the law into a discussion of ethics and, like Thrasymachus, your opinion is inadequate. In the civil law if you want to talk about "illegal" you're talking enforcement, and enforcement means lawsuits. Otherwise you're blowing smoke. If you say you were not talking suing, not talking lawsuits, then you were not talking about anything worth talking about. There are no copyright cops reading the poetry magazines, looking for editors who change a poet's words, or looking for poets who fail to acknowledge the journals a poem has previously appeared in. When you start talking "legal", whether you're right or wrong, in the civil law you're talking lawsuits, or you're not talking about anything, you're just blathering. Since you insist you were not talking about suing, then I'll take it you realize you were just blathering. On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:35, Alison Croggon wrote: > Steve, as the author, you hold the copyright of anything you write by > default. This is true -- but it's also irrelevant in a gift economy such as the poetry business. It doesn't matter a whit unless you get hired to write lyrics for Les Mis or Candide, or hired to do any writing, for that matter. Then who owns the copyright matters, sure, and it's good if you get hired to do that kind of writing that you consult an attorney and get the contract looked over closely. Failing that, however, in the gift economy of poetry, all poets really want is to get their poems out into the journals, books, and anthologies. There's no money in it, and as far as I know there's only been one case in living memory where someone was publishing someone else's poems as their own by changing the title and claiming them. Neither are editors unscrupulously minting money by publishing poems and failing to tell the poets. Neither are the poets slyly getting rich by getting paid for the same poem sent out to journal after journal. The whole thing, the whole notion of "legality" in a gift economy, is irrelevant. What poets want is credit for having written the thing; what editors want is credit for having published it. Even if a poem is attributed to the wrong poet, or a poem appears in two different journals, or any of that kind of thing, the law sees it as de minimus, and the law takes no notice of trivial things. Neither do the poets and editors sue each other, or even threaten it. The entire discussion about what's "legal" and what's not in the poetry gift economy is trivial and silly because no poet wants to be known as the poet who sues editors, and no editor wants to be known as the editor who sues poets. It's a gift economy where goodwill is all there is, where there's not enough cash value in the dispute to say "Fuck goodwill, show me the money". Even to talk about what's legal and what's not in a goodwill gift economy is to raise the spectre of lawsuit because it just doesn't matter what's legal and what's not in circumstances where the law takes no notice of the matter, and would likely regard any lawsuit on the issue as de minimus. But once you start to get strident about what's legal in the civil law, you're talking remedies, you're talking enforcement, you're talking lawsuit -- because if you're not, then you're just not talking about any thing significant at all. On 6 Jul 2007 at 9:35, Alison Croggon wrote: > I have never been an artist who likes tugging my forelock or who feels that > I ought to be so grateful to be published that I will allow my work to be > bastardised for the sake of it; I have withdrawn poems from prestigious > print journals if it seems that changing it against my better judgment is > part of the deal. I do not accept my work being treated with disrespect by > any publisher, and no writer should. And it happens that in seeking to > protect the work as I intend it to be, the law is on my side.< The law is irrelevant to the case because you can withdraw the poem and they can refuse to publish it -- and that's all there is to it. No question of law arises! No one makes any money worth fighting through the courts about by publishing poems, from either the writing or the publishing side. And if there were enough money to fight about, then the editors and publishers would win, and you'd have to accept either being edited in your poetry work just as you accept being edited in your journalism work, and for the same reasons: because the editors and publishers claim to know what the audience wants and how they want it, and they give it to them that way. And if you don't want to let them edit your work as it must be edited to sell, then they'll get someone else to write it -- just like journalism. You seem to fail to see the important issue here: that the reason that poets can say "My way or no way" is that editors have no audience that they have to pander to for money, and thus no motivation worth speaking of to try to compel poets to change their work. In short, the sad fact remains that poets can say what they please because no one is listening. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:47:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Tom, Yes, Cerevolo did write devotional poetry towards the end of his life. I heard passages from it in a reading at The Poetry Project, attended by his family and many New York poets, memorializing him. I had wondered why the collected did not include any of this work. My guess is that the editors preferred the more New York-ish, experimental early work. I thought those devotional (religious) poems were wonderful, very moving (written, I think, when he knew he was dying) and was looking forward to reading them on the page. Once again, however well-intentioned and loving, one can see the distorting (sometimes censoring) effects of the editorial process. Ciao, Murat On 7/6/07, Tom Orange wrote: > > conrad, > > let the bad manners fly on this one -- it's really shameful, the > continuing > neglect of ceravolo's work. and for all that was excluded from that recent > selected, which now also is out of print. fits of dawn is indeed a wonder, > which only makes one want a collected poems even more. it's can't be a > huge > book -- tho i heard a rumor that later in his life he wrote an extensive > series of catholic/devotional poetry -- anyone back this up? > > if i had a nickel for every o'hara or ashbery disciple out there i'd > gladly > trade it all for a small school of ceravolo and i'd still be richer! > > is anyone in contact with ceravolo's wife/estate? > > allbests, > tom orange > > ------------------ > CA Conrad wrote: > > Joseph Massey made me VERY HAPPY today forwarding a PDF of Ceravolo's long > out of print FITS OF DAWN, made me very very very fucking happy indeed! > > You can see the cover on The PhillySound, as well as links to PENNSOUND's > Ceravolo page, which Eric Baus just alerted me to as well. Go here: > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > I for one am SICK AND TIRED of the poetry world publishing endless crap > and > ignoring the fact that Ceravolo is out of print, except for the selected > THE > GREEN LAKE IS AWAKE. And no disrespect intended to the editors of the > selected, but it doesn't BEGIN to give us the total JOLT that is Joseph > Ceravolo! > > Whose cock do I have to suck to get the COLLECTED Ceravolo > published! What > a ridiculous fucking world this is when I see some of the boring shit > being > published in mass quantities and NO Ceravolo COLLECTED! > > OY! Makes my bad manners break loose! > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:34:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Katalanche Press Subject: Fwd: New(s) from Bootstrap In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Derek and Ryan @ Bootstrap Date: Jul 5, 2007 10:54 PM Subject: New(s) from Bootstrap To: Bootstrappers Hey Bootstrappers, We have updated our website because we have new books. Click here to go to the Home pageor keep reading and we'll give you the lowdown: *New Releases:* John Wieners *A book of Prophecies* Tom Morgan *On Going* Michelle Naka Pierce *Beloved Integer* and before you bring yourself to purchase one or all of these books, check out the Summer Sale . You could own large portions of our catalog for the price of a case of beer. Maybe you have our books already? We'd be happy to ship to a friend on behalf of you. We will even personalize it if you ask. Feel free to forward this to anyone you know who reads... *And help us dig out of the financial hole we have entered trying to rid the world of illiteracy, sentimental art, and soporific poetry.* PS As always, if you'd rather not receive these in your mailbox, do let us know. -- Derek Fenner and Ryan Gallagher Bootstrap Productions www.bootstrapproductions.org bootstrapproductions@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:33:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468E2BC0.32077.10F1200@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Fri, 6 Jul 2007, Marcus Bales wrote: > Mis or Candide, or hired to do any writing, for that matter. Then who owns the > copyright matters, sure, and it's good if you get hired to do that kind of writing > that you consult an attorney and get the contract looked over closely. and if you are lucky enough to land in that situation, make very sure that the phrase "work for hire" appears nowhere in the contract. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:09:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit fine jesse change away can i submit some work? On Fri, 6 Jul 2007 03:15:03 -0500 Jesse Crockett writes: > Steve, I do not factor into this. Martinis are mixed a million miles > > from pain and humility. > > > > steve d. dalachinsky wrote --- > > why sanctimony jesse do you honestly believe it's ok to change > work and > publisht without asking sanctimony? on who's part > address this part of the issue directly what are your true thoughts > on > this issue and your part in it?? obviously if you stand silent > we takeit that you think it's ok to alter someone's work beyond > suggesting changes > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 10:45:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: (Three interrelated texts related to memory, billowing, inert) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed (Three interrelated texts related to memory, billowing, inert) 1. Four Dead in O-hi-o Several bars of the 1970 song about the Kent State student massacre came on the radio; I began crying. First, there was the trauma of reliving the event, already at a distance when it happened; second, there was the energy and fulcrum of an entire era displayed; third, there was mourning for aging - May '68 is almost forty years ago; fourth, there's the imminence of all of this, as if it's happening now, here; sixth, there's the incontrovertible bar, obdurate time-gap which portends a masquerade of space; seventh, there's the realization that the bar is sublime if any- thing is, and in fact the sublime lies within the temporal, not the spatial, not with due or undue measurement; eighth, there's the integra- tion of time's granularity with temporal distance; ninth, there's the issue of internal time-consciousness and its presencing which is always a form of mourning imminence; tenth, there's the billowing of time which plays out psychologically in spatial dimensions; eleventh, it's as if one might say, Oh, if only I could reach out, I would touch Four Dead in O-hi-o, I would touch the song, the fury, the energy, the habitus, the communality, the immanence of the burgeoning eco-political, the momentary lapse in pessimism as against the most pessimistic of wars and bombs one might consider the flower at the end of a barrel of a gun; twelfth, it's the ringing of death itself or rather the horizon of death which lies in any temporal horizon whatsoever as worlds are always already irretriev- able; thirteenth, it's thinking through the playing out of these irre- trievable worlds within the organization and granularity of the billowing of the habitus, as if mourning consisted in watching the world of someone one loves withering away; fourteenth, it's the recognition that such withering is the foundation of the cosmos, Bell's theorem notwithstand- ing; fifteenth, one only has to look at one's own withering, our cat for example growing thinner by the way, her rounded and more robust form a memory reconstituted either through video or photography, or, more likely, through thinking through billowing, through the pleasure embedding all her gestures in an indefinite and infinite world of spring and summer, which was inescapably vectored towards this present and beyond, towards her death which we pray is not immediate, not soon; sixteenth, recognizing that billowing is a form of comfort, even among starvation, extinction, torture, a form of comfort within which the smallest things are absorbed and the temporal sublime appears as if in translation towards the glory of an inconceivable Absolute; seventeenth, coming to the realization that the comfort of the world is all the comfort there is, and the awkwardness and pain of the world, our awkwardness and pain, is all there is as well; eighteenth, it's as if Four Dead in O-hi-o never happened, it's as if that energy were stillborn, our memories playing tricks, an accumulation of subterfuges; nineteenth, yes we are living that impossible dream, impossi- ble because of the stretch entailed as if implication were the fundamental operation of the propositional logic; and twentieth, the gestural logics of the breakdown of distributive laws - it's as if they're holding out some sort of promise, but then the refrain of the song comes back, there are bodies lying there, equally stillborn, there is the image of the student looking up, towards the camera, someone dead and present, present in the way our own deaths are present even in the most fundamental acts of speaking, thinking, writing, this. 2. not now _ not now jennifer yes now julu ( j )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu ot now jennifer yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer yes now julu _ */jenni/* ffw jennifer not now jennifer yes now julu f ( f )r yes now julu yes now julu yes now julu now jennifer yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer now julu _ */fer/* not now jennifer yes now julu ( w )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer _ */you w/* not now jennifer yes now julu ( s )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer _ */ill s/* not now jennifer yes now julu ( m )r yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer _ */uck m/* not now jennifer yes now julu ( b )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu ot now jennifer yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer yes now julu _ */y b/* not now jennifer yes now julu ( t )r yes now julu es now julu s now julu nnifer yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer ulu jennifer yes now julu jennifer yes now ju _ */reasts until/* ffw jennifer not now jennifer yes now julu f ( y )r yes now julu yes now julu yes now julu now jennifer yes now julu yes now julu_not now jennifer now julu _ */you die/* 3. eyes billowing government, soundless next watching hysteric, yourself find lashed thing eyes, fall eyes her bleak wide berthing worried, seemed plays, ever gaze, gaze prims shuddered sea swollen, uncanny, stashed networks neural grace however hardness sallow, emptied, sodden tossed neatly clearly whims harboring you're memoire. histoire. face hollow cut inside world, fear ground unhallowed am death. close knew think never me. parted good. pretty been parts tackle desert. beyond desert dog dog. take welkin. living walking kings signs. sign omens, omen harbinger. strengthens defeat parasites memories glass plates wires. over speak consequence. run queens. queens will. don't. gouge life. ferocity gall bitterness rescue rest. laid ta'en spoken words yourself. it. shoot put maelstrom life, say. healthy. dead sometimes eyes. death yes give myself. kill myself furiously. woman. man wires, flesh, flesh. smell burn; wires garden cultivating see. think; wake fireflies where. everywhere running plates. photography's photography = y equations ( mov(i)es male sky. nighttime sightless light equation grid geometricized scattered usual constants b sqrt(tan(a-b*x^2), except obtained display. style specific given above, also below, collapses phallocentric, perhaps real. faced collapsing linear version soaked. well, potential, itself harden would otherwise scattering axis certain closely, examined stream continuing restoration. equations, bound inexhaustible conjures results turbulence loop, repetition artificial over-inflated spill whew, softness stars. fucking dynamo universe. barrier, boundary course lunge. incandescent gullet swallows production potential lost, thought once hole black information carries passes manifest themselves, en awak= sun. under galaxy, literally new survival, eternal irretrievable them, phenomena worlds human calling arches world. soft nay, information, this, possibility imagine oh, data-banking. gristle, throbs thoughts. innermost survey waits accumulated sumptuous forestall designed appurtenances fences designated equipment roughage carrying them structured, heavily protrusions indicated nothing, raiment set sparkings, firewalls literal depend doesn't intelligence. semblance surveyance argue state; exist thoughts, never, not, illimitable off corner, be. cosmos, worlds, description fecund accomplishes readily orderings softest reveal, continues things hidden knowledge, billowing memories, histories, objects, tial poten- membranes skeins, dies, real; thinking, constitutes recompense. return, incontrovertible disappear, finite, projection infinite appearance formlessness, forms settling-in importance, vital garnering corner. everything, anything, something, notion, talk sometime sovereignty times ... caress, illuminaries concept useful almost suturing corners 'peering' lifeworld 'smoothed' things, organizing receptacle, receiving, mind, phenomena, mental embraces real, 'depth' grips difficult extension, personal surrounding identifying particulate billowing, presencing comfort, seems forgotten classification plural. singular neither sublime. anecdote loses stratigraphy disappears. plateau, vector, train. mystical tion, revela- sublime easy, revealed particular language. contradictory intentional otherwise, seated buddhas towards differentiation. itself, war, dis-ease, urban asthmatic, some. contended sense 'sovereigns' states side. disappear. distinctions treaties. alliances peace, sovereignty, features peculiar possess did hear deaf, whatever. sovereign foreign dumb, beings, political considering crops, raise offence, defence faculties organs had sovereign. propositions each 13 placed g.b. separation considered he martin, war." vessels, equip processes operators jostle, confederation time, till remained other; collusion, spoken-for. ing speak- spoken-to, unless speaks jostle. membrane withdraws interiority, emic, etic; arise rights collocations, materiel. men, ment move- currencies, speech, goods, transmissions cloaks songs smile. lisa mona engender, breathe, swell, forth, billow nature, wayfarers, myth destinations, origins myth, forward putting look, sung? which, protocols, silence absolute see, you, nomadic. mapping mapped government. soundless operators, states, processes, ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:22:18 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone done a collaborative webzine where you send your poem in = deliberately to have it altered? It could be called 'Vandal' or some = such. J. A. Lee ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 15:08:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is an attempt at a ruse, isn't it? There isn't really a poet named Ceravolo, is there? Cera is Spanish for wax. And volo is kind of Italian/Spanish for I fly. So we have a reference to Icarus, a poet figure. gb On Jul 6, 2007, at 10:48 AM, CA Conrad wrote: > There are many rumors that Ceravolo's wife is the problem. I've heard > this > from several people. But I've also heard marvelous stories about her > from > my friend John Coletti who has been to see her, and she gave him > copies of > books, beautiful, rare gifts, and stories, and how nice is that? Very > nice! > > What would it take? > > What plot to loosen the valve on all that Love? > > Has no one any charm left? > > Silly, of course! Much charm to go around, right?!!!! Hm, well, > what's > next? We admit we have charm, we know the road block. How hard can > it be, > right?!!!! > > If only a Ceravolo COLLECTED could impeach Bush! > > If only it could stop bleeding, a COLLECTED compress too for lumps! > > The magic of poems. Put it in my imaginary womb and pluck out a goat > I know > I'm capable of making! My sweet little goat. I Love my little goat. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > George Bowering, Fan of Alex Shibicky ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:04:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <002a01c7bf4a$95133ea0$bd121341@JEFFREY> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've set up 3 different wikis over the years, where everything is editable. What's interesting to me is that since a history of every edit/version is kept, people (other than hackers) are generally thoughtful/respectful of people's work. Here's one from 2002 running on someone's laptop in Berlin... Feel free to "deliberately" alter. http://swiki.hfbk-hamburg.de:8888/mIEKAL/1 ~mIEKAL On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:22 PM, Crane's Bill Books wrote: > Has anyone done a collaborative webzine where you send your poem in > deliberately to have it altered? It could be called 'Vandal' or > some such. > J. A. Lee > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:15:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Kane Subject: Writing on Joe Ceravolo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Patrick Masterson's and Paul Stephens' collaborative essay 'Spring in this World of Mad Angels: The Poetry of Joe Ceravolo' is included in a book I edited entitled Don't Ever Get Famous [Dalkey Archives, 2006], and provides readers with an overview of Ceravolo's writing (including Fits of Dawn and his devotional poetry published in INRI and Millennium Dust). I'm certainly curious to hear what people think of their take on Ceravolo's work. Best, --daniel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 13:10:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: reJennifer Bartlett Subject: New on SES Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Muriel Rukeyser Larry Eigner Deborah Garrison The Science and problem of editiing Upcoming Language Poetry Carl Phillips Fur Fast Food Natiion and Bullwinkle and Rocky _________________________________________________________________ Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:52:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: Quoted-printable On 6 Jul 2007 at 17:48, Barry Schwabsky wrote: >=A0=A0 It seems to me that if poets don't sue, it's because they don't be= lieve they > can afford to do so. But let's say a publisher mangled the work I'd entr= usted > him with in this gift economy of ours, and I decided I could afford to s= ue > (let's pretend I was James Merrill, for instance, only alive)--would I h= ave a > case? Or would the fact that I had suffered no financial damage through = the > misplublication of my work mean that I had nothing to sue for?< Perhaps if you were James Merrill but alive and hired good enough lawyers and determined to sue someone with money enough to make a defense worthy enough to get it appealed high enough up the appeals process in the= right appeals courts to make a difference to the way the laws are interpre= ted in other jurisdictions, you might be able to help create an interpretation of= damages to mean something other or more than merely financial damages. It would be long hard and expensive, though, and still might not work. The copyright law, and its revisions (which I happen to have worked on as = an aide to one of the US Senators on the Judiciary Committee in those years, with the man who subsequently became Registrar, though I am not a lawyer) still focuses on the money because it is, after all, still the law, and no= t a work of ethics. So generally speaking, yes, you have to show you were harmed, and harmed usually means, in the civil law, that there was damage that can be calcula= ted in money terms. Even if your reputation is damaged, you have to claim that= it cost you money, because the law is, generally speaking, an ass. It is base= d on notions of property and money, and its goal is to balance property and mon= ey claims. The famous question by the man who was acquitted of all accusation= s is instructive here: "Where do I go to get my reputation back?" Nowhere, o= f course. The law does not deal with that. In a gift economy it's all about reputation, isn't it? The goal of submitt= ing and publishing poetry is to create a reputation by writing good poems and gett= ing them out there for others to read. Even the folks who start out rich, or w= ho are well-off from non-poetry work, are not in the poetry thing for the money, = and recognize that they can't sue their ways to the top. We all know that Wilb= ur, Fenton, and Collins, for example, got lucky with money in poetry, and then= worked hard and and smart and stayed lucky. But even you guys out there in= the postmodernist magical thinking world, even you have to realize that ma= ybe it happens once every, what, 20 or 30 years? So what are the odds it's goi= ng to be YOU, yeah, you, you personally? Not good, even with that postmodern magical thinking working for you, eh? So no one sues anyone in the poetry world. No one even sued when Jorie Graham and Bin Ramke awarded Peter Sacks top prize in a contest he didn't enter, unless you count marrying Jorie Graham as entering the contest -- which is a little much even for metaphor, come to think of it.=A0 If there= were going to be a suit in the poetry world, there's a fact pattern that a lawy= er could love. Except, instead of suing, almost everyone yawned and said yeah, that= 's the way it happens, so what. The people whose contest entries weren't even= read didn't bother to sue, though they'd paid their entry fee. It's just n= ot enough money. The damages are the entry fee and maybe the cost of the firs= t prize. But even if you count all the costs of publishing a book of poetry = by a university press, what can it be, $10,000?, it's still not enough money to= get an attorney good enough to win the suit interested in suing. So no one sued. Jorie Graham may never be asked to be a contest judge again. Peter Sacks may be embarrassed to put that contest win on his CV. Bin Ramke is now retired -- not even in the game any more -- but that's all a matter of rep= utation, isn't it, not money damage. Not even the people who are in the best possib= le position to sue in the poetry world sue other people in the poetry world. There's just not enough money to justify it, and at the end, even if they = win, what do they have? They have a piddly amount of money, and the reputation that they sue people over piddly amounts of money. If you ran a poetry con= test or a poetry journal or a poetry publishing company and Grebak "Sue 'em!" Smith submitted a check and a MS, wouldn't you simply return both check an= d MS without comment? Of course you would. Who wants to risk dealing with someone who's likely to cost you enormous amounts of time and energy and money over something like poetry? Similarly if the Grebak Journal sued poets for violating its simultaneous submissions rule, who'd submit to it? Who wants to get involved with someone likely to cost you enormous amounts of time, energy, and money over something like poetry? As for "really taking legal action", yes, you really have to sue to "reall= y take legal action" in a civil case. Sure, you can threaten to sue, but that's n= ot "really" taking "legal action" in any meaningful sense of the term. It's n= ot "legal action" until you pay the fee and file it with a court. Until then it's ju= st administrative remedies. That's not to say that a court isn't going to wan= t to see that you've exhausted your administrative remedies before suing, but t= hat doesn't make administrative remedies that a court is likely to require "re= ally legal action" any more than telling someone you'd like to make love with t= hem constitutes actual sex. It may be a precursor, but it ain't the real thing= , postmodern magical thinking, or no. Consider this quote you quote in your email: =A0"Then I got the parliamentary ombudsman to make an investigation and he consulted the British Museum who confirmed that the book couldn=B4t be = a first edition. But when they were asked to say that publicly, they refused to do so. The National Library of Scotland, a copyright library which received editions of all my books, also refused to say anything. It is extraordinary that something so clear could be deliberately ignored like this. My position was really quite simple, I didn=B4t wish to take part in= a fraud on the public. But at that time most poets either were published by Fulcrum, or wished to be published by Fulcrum, so they seemed to consider me a danger, and after six years I was completely isolated. Nobody spoke to me anymore, and people were saying `it is not nice to fight=B4 and all this kind of thing. So, then, I went to the Consumer Protection Department which sent the book to Sotheby=B4s whose expert on literary fraud, a man called Carte= r, said that it could not be a first edition, took the publisher to court, and got the ruling that I was right. It then took the Arts Council Of Great Britain a further two years to accept the court ruling and to apologise to me. But I was never forgiven, I was always reminded that I did something terrible. The fact that I was proven right counted for nothing at all. What people remembered was that I had cause a lot of trouble to these institutions by asking them to stand up and speak a simple truth. But it was very instructive to me! This was when I first realised what culture is." If that's not a clear and concise record of what happens to people who go outside the poetry business system and try to use the legal system, includ= ing Parlaiment, who prompt law suits by others among the other parties, and wh= o are ostracised for it, I don't kinow what is. You quote this remarkably de= tailed story yourself, and you still ask whether it would be a good idea to actua= lly sue someone? Extraordinary! I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about legali= ty and legal remedies in this poetry context? Let me quote this bit again: "The fact that I was proven right counted for nothing at all. What people remembered was that I had cause a lot of trouble to these institutions by asking them to stand up and speak a simple truth." Asking people to stand up and speak a simple truth against their economic self-interest, against their reputational self-interest, against any kind = of self- interest, is deeply problematic. People won't do it without very unusual circumstances, and even then they resent the hell out of it thereafter, an= d do all they can to get back, reputationally ("I was completely isolated. Nobo= dy spoke to me anymore, ... I was never forgiven, I was always reminded that = I did something terrible."), and they don't forget it. It's bad advice to tell people in the poetry game to stand up for their le= gal rights and to declare that legal right is on this side or that because the= people who make the decisions that enhance or diminish poetic reputations simply won't tolerate it. They'll isolate anyone who sues them, and why shouldn't= they? Lawsuits are expensive, time-consuming, and heart-breaking. These are people who can't even be bothered to respond to inquiry letters and submissions of poetry for months and months at a time, if at all. They're = not in it for the money, and if you use, or advise others to use, the legal remed= ies that may be theoretically available to them, it's career suicide within th= e poetry game. Don't do it. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 04:33:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: O MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Screenshots from O: http://vispo.com/nio/pens/screenshots/o1.html http://vispo.com/nio/pens/screenshots/o2.html http://vispo.com/nio/pens/screenshots/o3.html http://vispo.com/nio/pens/screenshots/o4.html http://vispo.com/nio/pens/screenshots/o5.html http://vispo.com/nio/pens/screenshots/o6.html The generator: http://vispo.com/nio/pens/springs7.htm ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 10:09:03 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Recent Nomadics blog posts Comments: To: Britis-Irish List Comments: cc: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Check out recent Nomadics blog posts at: http://pjoris.blogspot.com Miles & the Dolphin A Sudden Change of State Remove Robert Mugabe Adieu Paris =97 Phinal Photos End of the Market, here comes the Fado March=E9 de la po=E9sie bis March=E9 de la po=E9sie may the summer treat you well! Pierre ___________________________________________________________ The poet: always in partibus infidelium -- Paul Celan ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 01:53:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi In-Reply-To: <86tzshpwxz.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > http://www.logolalia.com/minimalistconcretepoetry/ > > has been updated with 13 pieces by Marko Niemi. > > Though we might quibble over semantics, I think we can all agree that > it is desirable to live in a world where more poems have the ability > to move. Thanks, Dan. Interesting work from Marko, as always. I found "Gotos" thought provoking. There's more there than meets the eye. We see lines such as 220 GOTO 220 220 GOTO 140 We're under the impression that we're looking at the code, but the above implies that the underlying code is different from what we're looking at; clearly line 220 does not simply say either "GOTO 220" or "GOTO 140". And if we look at the Javascript in gotos.html, we see that it's written to generate, ad infinitum, a sequence of Goto statements. Marko has written a program that presents an imaginary program that implies the existence of a program to generate the imaginary program. An interesting code idea. ja http://vispo.com ps: By the way, you mention Tish in connection with concrete, Dan. But, as far as I know, Lionel Kearns was the only one from Tish who was involved in concrete poetry. Tish was not particularly experimental, at least concerning media, as far as I know. pss: Concrete, to me, is grounded not so much in the visual as in consciousness of media and the dimensionality of language and its manifestations. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:52:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: The Marcus Bales Listserv Drinking Game - Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <4642.24.72.224.225.1183747536.squirrel@webmail.patriot.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Wanna get sloshed? Take a drink when one of the people on any of those listservs writes something disingenuously. I only comment on it less than a tenth of the time. Marcus On 6 Jul 2007 at 14:45, Gwyn McVay wrote: > > Disingenuous again -- > > I am now on three different poetry-related listservs to which Mr. Bales > is, or has been, subscribed. Based on this experience, I've been trying to > work out a drinking game -- for example, the most obvious occasion for > taking a drink is when Marcus accuses someone of being disingenuous. The > problem, however, is that he flings this word around with such giddy > abandon that you could easily get sloshed before the day is half over. > Obviously there are still a few bugs in the system. > > Back to trying to find a copy of the Joseph Ceravolo PDF, because I think > "caribou" is more of a word to conjure with than "disingenuous" -- > > Gwyn (Hey, there's still gin in that lime slice!) McVay > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/888 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 6:36 AM > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 20:05:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ceravolo is a poet who matters a great deal to me for all the very little i feel like I know about his work. I remember I had a tremendous sense of recognition when I first came across some of his poems a year or so ago, like i'd found a kindred literary spirit i'd never known about. Which felt a little weird since I was all of ten years old when he passed on. In particular, his use of repetition struck me as so similar to mine that I remember wondering if people who were better read than me had taken it as direct influence. I just checked the Ceravolo page at EPC, which is where I discovered him in the first place, if i remember correctly, and there are only a couple of links and then a collection of four posts from this list from Jordan Davis, Joel Lewis, Ron Silliman, and Mark Wallace. Pennsound has a bunch of really charming recordings, but still, not enough to really be satisfying, more like a really robust appetizer than a full entree. Perhaps what's needed is a growing clamor of critical appraisal? Perhaps if there was enough of a steady tide of secondary literature, it would raise awareness of the disappointing thinness of what's available in print. Maybe those of us anxious for a collected works should commit to doing something to raise that awareness, a conspiracy of poets and editors to get his poetry talked about more and so hopefully increase general interest. It seems like there could be a lot done to increase the secondary literature available about Ceravolo's poetry on the web that might bear fruit. CA Conrad wrote: > There are many rumors that Ceravolo's wife is the problem. I've heard > this > from several people. But I've also heard marvelous stories about her > from > my friend John Coletti who has been to see her, and she gave him > copies of > books, beautiful, rare gifts, and stories, and how nice is that? Very > nice! > > What would it take? > > What plot to loosen the valve on all that Love? > > Has no one any charm left? > > Silly, of course! Much charm to go around, right?!!!! Hm, well, what's > next? We admit we have charm, we know the road block. How hard can > it be, > right?!!!! > > If only a Ceravolo COLLECTED could impeach Bush! > > If only it could stop bleeding, a COLLECTED compress too for lumps! > > The magic of poems. Put it in my imaginary womb and pluck out a goat > I know > I'm capable of making! My sweet little goat. I Love my little goat. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 17:31:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: evolution and language In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070706001005.064df168@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Well, you know, when non-Euclidean geometry was finally recognized, it involved, among other things, a simplification of our idea of a straight line. We kept the notion that it's the shortest distance between two points, but threw out the specifically Euclidean ideas that obscured whole other geometries. Not that we no longer know what the Euclidean notion of a straight line involves. So too, perhaps, with our notion of what a language is. ja http://vispo.com > Or, to put it another way, we may have entered a period when the > rather imprecise metaphoric identification of all symbolic systems as > language may obscure the profound differences between them. > > Mark > > > >And, just as twentieth century science was > >dominated by physics, so it seems the twenty first will be by > studies deeply > >involving language. Such as computation, genetics, and other types of > >information. > > > >Yet, in most cases, apparently language/information/grammar without a > >sentient author. > > > >Fascinating notions of poetry therein. > > > >ja > >http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 20:15:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: (Three interrelated texts related to memory, billowing, inert) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/6/07, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > (Three interrelated texts related to memory, billowing, inert) > > > 1. Four Dead in O-hi-o > > Several bars of the 1970 song about the Kent State student massacre came > on the radio; I began crying. First, there was the trauma of reliving the > event, already at a distance when it happened; second, there was the > energy and fulcrum of an entire era displayed; third, there was mourning > for aging - May '68 is almost forty years ago; fourth, there's the > imminence of all of this, as if it's happening now, here; sixth, there's > the incontrovertible bar, obdurate time-gap which portends a masquerade of > space; seventh, there's the realization that the bar is sublime if any- > thing is, and in fact the sublime lies within the temporal, not the > spatial, not with due or undue measurement; eighth, there's the integra- > tion of time's granularity with temporal distance; ninth, there's the > issue of internal time-consciousness and its presencing which is always a > form of mourning imminence; tenth, there's the billowing of time which > plays out psychologically in spatial dimensions; eleventh, it's as if one > might say, Oh, if only I could reach out, I would touch Four Dead in > O-hi-o, I would touch the song, the fury, the energy, the habitus, the > communality, the immanence of the burgeoning eco-political, the momentary > lapse in pessimism as against the most pessimistic of wars and bombs one > might consider the flower at the end of a barrel of a gun; twelfth, it's > the ringing of death itself or rather the horizon of death which lies in > any temporal horizon whatsoever as worlds are always already irretriev- > able; thirteenth, it's thinking through the playing out of these irre- > trievable worlds within the organization and granularity of the billowing > of the habitus, as if mourning consisted in watching the world of someone > one loves withering away; fourteenth, it's the recognition that such > withering is the foundation of the cosmos, Bell's theorem notwithstand- > ing; fifteenth, one only has to look at one's own withering, our cat for > example growing thinner by the way, her rounded and more robust form a > memory reconstituted either through video or photography, or, more likely, > through thinking through billowing, through the pleasure embedding all her > gestures in an indefinite and infinite world of spring and summer, which > was inescapably vectored towards this present and beyond, towards her > death which we pray is not immediate, not soon; sixteenth, recognizing > that billowing is a form of comfort, even among starvation, extinction, > torture, a form of comfort within which the smallest things are absorbed > and the temporal sublime appears as if in translation towards the glory of > an inconceivable Absolute; seventeenth, coming to the realization that the > comfort of the world is all the comfort there is, and the awkwardness and > pain of the world, our awkwardness and pain, is all there is as well; > eighteenth, it's as if Four Dead in O-hi-o never happened, it's as if that > energy were stillborn, our memories playing tricks, an accumulation of > subterfuges; nineteenth, yes we are living that impossible dream, impossi- > ble because of the stretch entailed as if implication were the fundamental > operation of the propositional logic; and twentieth, the gestural logics > of the breakdown of distributive laws - it's as if they're holding out > some sort of promise, but then the refrain of the song comes back, there > are bodies lying there, equally stillborn, there is the image of the > student looking up, towards the camera, someone dead and present, present > in the way our own deaths are present even in the most fundamental acts of > speaking, thinking, writing, this. WOW! Ciao, Murat 2. not now > > > _ > not now jennifer yes now julu > ( j )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu ot now jennifer yes > now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer yes now julu > _ */jenni/* > ffw jennifer > not now jennifer yes now julu f > ( f )r yes now julu yes now julu yes now julu now jennifer yes now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer now julu > _ */fer/* > not now jennifer yes now julu > ( w )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer > _ */you w/* > not now jennifer yes now julu > ( s )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer > _ */ill s/* > not now jennifer yes now julu > ( m )r yes now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer > _ */uck m/* > not now jennifer yes now julu > ( b )r yes now julu yes now julu er yes now julu ot now jennifer yes > now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer yes now julu > _ */y b/* > not now jennifer yes now julu > ( t )r yes now julu es now julu s now julu nnifer yes now julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer > ulu jennifer yes now julu jennifer yes now ju > _ */reasts until/* > ffw jennifer > not now jennifer yes now julu f > ( y )r yes now julu yes now julu yes now julu now jennifer yes now > julu > yes now julu_not now jennifer now julu > _ */you die/* > > > > 3. eyes billowing government, soundless > > > next watching hysteric, yourself find lashed thing eyes, fall eyes her > bleak wide berthing worried, seemed plays, ever gaze, gaze prims shuddered > sea swollen, uncanny, stashed networks neural grace however hardness > sallow, emptied, sodden tossed neatly clearly whims harboring you're > memoire. histoire. face hollow cut inside world, fear ground unhallowed > am death. close knew think never me. parted good. pretty been parts > tackle desert. beyond desert dog dog. take welkin. living walking > kings signs. sign omens, omen harbinger. strengthens defeat parasites > memories glass plates wires. over speak consequence. run queens. queens > will. don't. gouge life. ferocity gall bitterness rescue rest. laid ta'en > spoken words yourself. it. shoot put maelstrom life, say. healthy. dead > sometimes eyes. death yes give myself. kill myself furiously. woman. man > wires, flesh, flesh. smell burn; wires garden cultivating see. think; wake > fireflies where. everywhere running plates. photography's photography > = y equations ( mov(i)es male sky. nighttime sightless light > equation grid geometricized scattered usual constants b sqrt(tan(a-b*x^2), > except obtained display. style specific given above, also below, collapses > phallocentric, perhaps real. faced collapsing linear version soaked. > well, potential, itself harden would otherwise scattering axis certain > closely, examined stream continuing restoration. equations, bound > inexhaustible conjures results turbulence loop, repetition artificial > over-inflated spill whew, softness stars. fucking dynamo universe. > barrier, boundary course lunge. incandescent gullet swallows production > potential lost, thought once hole black information carries passes > manifest themselves, en awak= sun. under galaxy, literally new survival, > eternal irretrievable them, phenomena worlds human calling arches world. > soft nay, information, this, possibility imagine oh, data-banking. > gristle, throbs thoughts. innermost survey waits accumulated sumptuous > forestall designed appurtenances fences designated equipment roughage > carrying them structured, heavily protrusions indicated nothing, raiment > set sparkings, firewalls literal depend doesn't intelligence. semblance > surveyance argue state; exist thoughts, never, not, illimitable off > corner, be. cosmos, worlds, description fecund accomplishes readily > orderings softest reveal, continues things hidden knowledge, billowing > memories, histories, objects, tial poten- membranes skeins, dies, real; > thinking, constitutes recompense. return, incontrovertible disappear, > finite, projection infinite appearance formlessness, forms settling-in > importance, vital garnering corner. everything, anything, something, > notion, talk sometime sovereignty times ... caress, illuminaries > concept useful almost suturing corners 'peering' lifeworld 'smoothed' > things, organizing receptacle, receiving, mind, phenomena, mental embraces > real, 'depth' grips difficult extension, personal surrounding identifying > particulate billowing, presencing comfort, seems forgotten classification > plural. singular neither sublime. anecdote loses stratigraphy disappears. > plateau, vector, train. mystical tion, revela- sublime easy, revealed > particular language. contradictory intentional otherwise, seated buddhas > towards differentiation. itself, war, dis-ease, urban asthmatic, > some. contended sense 'sovereigns' states side. disappear. distinctions > treaties. alliances peace, sovereignty, features peculiar possess did > hear deaf, whatever. sovereign foreign dumb, beings, political considering > crops, raise offence, defence faculties organs had sovereign. propositions > each 13 placed g.b. separation considered he martin, war." vessels, equip > processes operators jostle, confederation time, till remained other; > collusion, spoken-for. ing speak- spoken-to, unless speaks jostle. > membrane withdraws interiority, emic, etic; arise rights collocations, > materiel. men, ment move- currencies, speech, goods, transmissions cloaks > songs smile. lisa mona engender, breathe, swell, forth, billow nature, > wayfarers, myth destinations, origins myth, forward putting look, sung? > which, protocols, silence absolute see, you, nomadic. mapping mapped > government. soundless operators, states, processes, > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 09:11:03 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707060901g539bd231hfcb3d9dd7d0d6097@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Murat I wasn't saying it was all roses, either. I guess it's about knowing the context you're entering. It's awful when the machine disempowers you. Your experience sounds quite a lot like an argument I had about my fiction with a Penguin editor, which took about six months out of my life and was deeply stressful. In that case, the difference was that I was the sole author and had some recourse, although I was heavily pressured and it was difficult. In the end, I didn't make the drastic changes demanded - which were all about the "market" but which to me made no sense at all - and I got a new editor for the next book. Of course, in that case I wanted to write a commercial book, so ultimately my wishes and my publisher's desires coincided. My first book of poems was published by Penguin, and that was a traumatic experience I wouldn't want to repeat. And didn't, although I had invitations to do so, and I went to a small press instead for my next collection. All best Alison On 7/7/07, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > Alison, > > I do not assign lack of integrity to editors of commercial publications. > They have to do what they have to do, but their interests do not > necessarily > correspond to mine. They may do so for completely moral purposes, even > believing they are improving the work. In terms of acceptance by the > readership, the editor may even be right. But I may not be writing for a > maximum number of readership, but for another reason. Perhaps one has > something one needs to say and a specific way of saying it. The way of > saying is as salient as the substance. Given the sacrifices in readership > the poet has usually to make (or is willing to make or risks to make), I > think he or she has the freedom to choose. What I do not like is > adjectives > like non-professionalism or capriciousness or naivete or foolishness > applied > to such behavior. Sometimes, I myself initiate the query whether the > editor/publisher has an opinion about a specific line or passage, but it > is > all do within > a framework of respect. > > > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:51:22 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hey George, you don't have to explain. I'm from a little colony called Australia, which might have had moral rights of its own once. All best Alison On 7/7/07, George Bowering wrote: > > It's just that we people from Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Bolivia, > Panama, etc. > wonder how come the people in the US call their one country "America." > Why > not go a little further and call it "The World"? Well, I guess that > does happen-- > while watching a baseball game on TV lately, I heard an announcer refer > to the > "World Champion St. Louis Cardinals." This despite the Japanese baseball > team winning the World Championship in a game against Cuba. > > > On Jul 6, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > > > And George is here, thank goodness, to assert every last one of them! > > > > Alison Croggon wrote: Many apologies for the > > careless conflation, George. Of course Canada has > > moral rights. > > > > xA > > > > On 7/6/07, George Bowering wrote: > >> > >> On Jul 5, 2007, at 4:35 PM, Alison Croggon wrote: > >> > >>> I wasn't offering an opinion, just stating a commonly known legal > >>> fact, which in fact pertains in America under copyright law. > >> > >> Nope, just in the US, I think. > >> > >> > >>> George Hendrik Bowering > >> Always ate his crusts. > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > > > > > George B. > Author of his own misfortunes. > -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 15:14:33 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468F5434.24458.5951835@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit You are a stickler for accuracy bu not when you quote me. I never asked whether it would be a good idea to sue. I only asked whether it were possible. A good talker, not such a good listener. Marcus Bales wrote: Parlaiment, who prompt law suits by others among the other parties, and who are ostracised for it, I don't kinow what is. You quote this remarkably detailed story yourself, and you still ask whether it would be a good idea to actually sue someone? Extraordinary! I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about legality and legal remedies in this poetry context? Let me quote this bit again: "The fact that I was proven right counted for nothing at all. What people remembered was that I had cause a lot of trouble to these institutions by asking them to stand up and speak a simple truth." Asking people to stand up and speak a simple truth against their economic self-interest, against their reputational self-interest, against any kind of self- interest, is deeply problematic. People won't do it without very unusual circumstances, and even then they resent the hell out of it thereafter, and do all they can to get back, reputationally ("I was completely isolated. Nobody spoke to me anymore, ... I was never forgiven, I was always reminded that I did something terrible."), and they don't forget it. It's bad advice to tell people in the poetry game to stand up for their legal rights and to declare that legal right is on this side or that because the people who make the decisions that enhance or diminish poetic reputations simply won't tolerate it. They'll isolate anyone who sues them, and why shouldn't they? Lawsuits are expensive, time-consuming, and heart-breaking. These are people who can't even be bothered to respond to inquiry letters and submissions of poetry for months and months at a time, if at all. They're not in it for the money, and if you use, or advise others to use, the legal remedies that may be theoretically available to them, it's career suicide within the poetry game. Don't do it. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 08:52:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "a steady tide of secondary literature . . . a conspiracy of poets and edit= ors to get his poetry talked about more . . . ."estim ados--permit me to = make a suggestion--CARPE DIEM--secondary literature and a conspiracy of poe= ts and editors --the foundations for an academic conference or two--or som= e special issue of journal or a blog note or a page at the epc--the coloniz= ation, critical creation and canonization of a coterie's cult figure--read = by a wider narrow circle--"to dream the impossible dream"much more is deman= ded of one--i think to rase awarenes--raise the dead!!what needs to be done= is a march on the grave, and an exhumation and a parading of the coffin--b= ringing it to some place symbolizing literary Power--or just through the st= reets . . . to be transported by a roaring off runaway car to the next par= ade site---and the next--and the next--POET ON THE MOVE!!!--DEAD POET ELUDE= S POLICE CHASE---GRAVE ROBBERS "RAISING AWARENESS OF POET'S WORK AND LIFE"-= -THE MIDNIGHT RIDE OF JOSEPH CERAVOLO--eLUSIVE POET LANDS IN LIMA--BUENOS A= IRES--PARIS--ROME--LONDON--BELRIN--TOKYO--TANGIERS--BEIRUT--TEHRAN--DETROIT= -MILWAUKEE--LAGOS--PORT-AU-PRINCE--BANKOK--DAR-ES -SALAAM--even HARAR!!! (r= imbaud's old stomping grounds)by God! that wil draw some attention!!!!!that= will have the name of Ceravolo all over the newspapers and cable news--you= tube--my face--the talk shows--the legal proceedings and the whole appartu= s of the wheels of justice, commentary, controversy--the hew and cry of out= rage and hilarity and high moral judgements--and low financial dealings--th= e teeming mass of papparazzi--and i am sure there wil be some publisher or = two or three or twenty who suddenly sees a way to a buck--clawing and scrat= ching, jabbing and gouging their ways through the scheming anthill--and set= s forth to get this work back in print pronto!!!!"do not let this good man = lie buried in darkness!! bring his 'body of work' to light!!!! LIVE Joesp= h Ceravolo, live!!!!WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH THE TOUGH GET GOING> Date: Fr= i, 6 Jul 2007 20:05:12 -0700> From: jfq@MYUW.NET> Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! J= oseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!!> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.B= UFFALO.EDU> > Ceravolo is a poet who matters a great deal to me for all the= very > little i feel like I know about his work. I remember I had a tremen= dous > sense of recognition when I first came across some of his poems a ye= ar > or so ago, like i'd found a kindred literary spirit i'd never known > = about. Which felt a little weird since I was all of ten years old when > he= passed on. In particular, his use of repetition struck me as so > similar = to mine that I remember wondering if people who were better read > than me = had taken it as direct influence. I just checked the Ceravolo > page at EPC= , which is where I discovered him in the first place, if i > remember corre= ctly, and there are only a couple of links and then a > collection of four = posts from this list from Jordan Davis, Joel Lewis, > Ron Silliman, and Mar= k Wallace. Pennsound has a bunch of really charming > recordings, but still= , not enough to really be satisfying, more like a > really robust appetizer= than a full entree. Perhaps what's needed is a > growing clamor of critica= l appraisal? Perhaps if there was enough of a > steady tide of secondary li= terature, it would raise awareness of the > disappointing thinness of what'= s available in print. Maybe those of us > anxious for a collected works sho= uld commit to doing something to raise > that awareness, a conspiracy of po= ets and editors to get his poetry > talked about more and so hopefully incr= ease general interest. It seems > like there could be a lot done to increas= e the secondary literature > available about Ceravolo's poetry on the web t= hat might bear fruit.> > > > > > CA Conrad wrote:> > There are many rumors = that Ceravolo's wife is the problem. I've heard > > this> > from several p= eople. But I've also heard marvelous stories about her > > from> > my frie= nd John Coletti who has been to see her, and she gave him > > copies of> > = books, beautiful, rare gifts, and stories, and how nice is that? Very > > = nice!> >> > What would it take?> >> > What plot to loosen the valve on all = that Love?> >> > Has no one any charm left?> >> > Silly, of course! Much c= harm to go around, right?!!!! Hm, well, what's> > next? We admit we have = charm, we know the road block. How hard can > > it be,> > right?!!!!> >> >= If only a Ceravolo COLLECTED could impeach Bush!> >> > If only it could st= op bleeding, a COLLECTED compress too for lumps!> >> > The magic of poems. = Put it in my imaginary womb and pluck out a goat > > I know> > I'm capable= of making! My sweet little goat. I Love my little goat.> >> > CAConrad> = > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Wi= ndows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=3Den-us&ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_mig= ration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:11:08 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468F5434.24458.5951835@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline >I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about legality and >legal remedies in this poetry context? This is boring. But, since Marcus is so insistent, I can't help wondering why he thinks that copyright does not pertain to poets, unlike every other creative artist. Of course there is plenty of precedent. Poetry under the law is not different than any other kind of writing. Here's the Wikipedia definition on moral rights (you USians are a bit behind us on that one). Moral rights quite clearly pertain to more than merely financial considerations. I am, as I said, bored with this conversation, and only post this for clarity, for those who might be bamboozled by Marcus's bizarre arguments. *Moral rights* are rights of creators of copyrighted works generally recognized in civil lawjurisdictions and first recognized in France and Germany, before they were included in the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Worksin 1928. While the United States became a signatory to the convention in 1988, it still does not completely recognize moral rights as part of copyright law , but rather as part of other bodies of law, such as defamation or unfair competition. Those jurisdictions that include moral rights in their copyright statutes are called droit d'auteurstates, which literally means "right of the author". Moral rights include the right of attribution, the right to have a work published anonymouslyor pseudonymously , and the right to the integrity of the work. The preserving the integrity of the work bars the work from alteration, distortion or mutilation. Anything else that may detract from the artist's relationship with the work even after it leaves the artist's possession or ownership may bring these moral rights into play. Moral rights are distinct from any economic rightstied to copyright, thus even if an artist has assigned his or her rights to a work to a third party he or she still maintains the moral rights to the work. Some jurisdictions allow for the waiverof moral rights. In the United States, the Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990 (VARA) recognizes moral rights, but only applies to works of visual art . -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 12:05:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Potree Journal Subject: Open Call for Responses to the Work of John Taggart MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Little Red Leaves is announcing a call for responses to the work of John Taggart. These will be collected for one of the next few issues, and can include anything you consider "responsive": essays, reviews, poems, visual work, video/audio work, etc. Feel free to query C.J. (cm49600 at gmail dot com) with questions/suggestions/proposals. Reading period for these submissions is completely open. Please attach poems/prose/visual work as .doc, .pdf, .jpeg or .rtf file, & send video/audio work in an appropriate format (links to video/audio work would be preferable). Please send submissions to littleredleaves at gmail dot com. When submitting, please include your name & "Taggart" in the subject line. All best, The LRL Editors ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 12:27:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Sheila Murphy's Skinny Buddha on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Shemur's newest book Skinny Buddha (out from Dusie) is discussed on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas, along with new fiction, including "The Cat Who Met Lillian Hellman"... also, new laws of Literary Criticism are Unveiled by certain Egyptian gods/goddesses. "Abusing Nietzsche, they descend in their Joe Brainard pyjamas..." _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/sheila-murphys-new-book-skinn y-buddha.html_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/sheila-murphys-new-book-skinny-buddha.html) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:12:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Marcus, I am not quite clear what you are exactly arguing against, that in most cases it is better to let the matter go? On the other hand, factually, though rare, suing in the poetry world does occur? For instance, the Bronk estate sued the publisher when the poet was included in an anthology of gay poetry. Someone of financial means, in your terms with "a reputation to protect," can bankrupt a small publisher if he or she wants to. Therefore, the legal niceties are important if nothing else for self-protection against such an attack. I do not know if your strict distinction between "suing" and "threatening to sue," that they are completely different, is completely valid. For instance, the inclusion opf an Auden poem in an anthology has a payment of several thousands dollars attached to it. If "suing" was a figment of the imagination, and "threatening to sue" a complete irrelevancy, what would prevent a publisher to include the Auden poem anyhow? Obviously, there is a hierarchy of "worth" in the poetry world also, though the numbers are small time in terms of the wider world. There is also no doubt that most of us as poets, most of the time, function below the radar level. This does not mean the laws do not exist, at least in their preventive power. When I was preparing the Eda anthology of Turkish poetry, I was under the strict rule not to include any poet where the permission to publish was not given in writing. ciao, Murat On 7/7/07, Alison Croggon wrote: > > >I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about > legality and > >legal remedies in this poetry context? > > This is boring. But, since Marcus is so insistent, I can't help wondering > why he thinks that copyright does not pertain to poets, unlike every other > creative artist. Of course there is plenty of precedent. Poetry under the > law is not different than any other kind of writing. > > Here's the Wikipedia definition on moral rights (you USians are a bit > behind > us on that one). Moral rights quite clearly pertain to more than merely > financial considerations. I am, as I said, bored with this conversation, > and only post this for clarity, for those who might be bamboozled by > Marcus's bizarre arguments. > > > *Moral rights* are rights of > creators > of copyrighted < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright> works generally > recognized in civil > law >jurisdictions > and first recognized in > France and > Germany, > before they were included in the Berne Convention for the Protection of > Literary and Artistic > Works >in > 1928. While the United > States became a signatory to > the convention in 1988, it still does not completely recognize moral > rights > as part of copyright law , > but > rather as part of other bodies of law, such as defamation or unfair > competition. Those jurisdictions that include moral rights in their > copyright statutes are called droit > d'auteur< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_copyright_law>states, > which literally means "right of the author". > > Moral rights include the right of > attribution< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribution_%28copyright%29>, > the right to have a work published > anonymouslyor > pseudonymously , and the right to > the integrity of the work. The preserving the integrity of the work bars > the > work from alteration, distortion or mutilation. Anything else that may > detract from the artist's relationship with the work even after it leaves > the artist's possession or ownership may bring these moral rights into > play. > Moral rights are distinct from any economic > rights< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_rights>tied to copyright, > thus even if an artist has assigned his or her rights to > a work to a third party he or she still maintains the moral rights to the > work. Some jurisdictions allow for the > waiverof moral rights. In the > United States, the Visual > Artists Rights Act > of 1990 (VARA) > recognizes moral rights, but only applies to works of visual > art < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_art>. > > > > -- > Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au > Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com > Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:06:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi In-Reply-To: (Jim Andrews's message of "Sat, 7 Jul 2007 01:53:24 -0700") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jim, Thank you for your comments on Marko's work--often more than meets the eye with his work. > ps: By the way, you mention Tish in connection with concrete, Dan. But, as > far as I know, Lionel Kearns was the only one from Tish who was involved in > concrete poetry. Tish was not particularly experimental, at least concerning > media, as far as I know. My intention was no to connect Tish or the other schools/movements with concrete. Quite the contrary, in fact. I was trying to say that concrete, while it was in fact for a period of time a school/movement, doesn't properly belong to that class of objects. It's not a school/movement like Tish or Black Mountain is. It is a tool to be used, a way of approaching certain challenges. Approaching them, as you say, with a "consciousness of media and the dimensionality of language and its manifestations." This is a working definition that is in-line with my own. Regards, Dan > pss: Concrete, to me, is grounded not so much in the visual as in > consciousness of media and the dimensionality of language and its > manifestations. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 02:08:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: FW: Save the Date! Aaron Douglas National Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 10:45:09 -0500 "Harris, William J" wrote: > > Dear Aldon, Would you please pass this along to anybody you would think would be interested. Thanks. Best, Billy Joe > > ________________________________ > > From: Spencer Museum of Art KU > Sent: Fri 7/6/2007 12:09 PM > To: spencerart@ku.edu > Subject: Save the Date! Aaron Douglas National Conference > > > Sent by: Spencer Museum of Art, The University of Kansas > Reply to the sender > > Forward to a friend > > > > SAVE THE DATE > "Aaron Douglas & the Arts of the Harlem Renaissance" > An Interdisciplinary National Conference > > Synopsis > > The Spencer Museum of Art at the University of Kansas invites you to"Aaron Douglas and the Arts of the Harlem Renaissance," September 28-29, 2007. Organized by KU Professor of English William J. Harris, the conference is offered in conjunction with the nationally touring exhibition Aaron Douglas: African American Modernist, organized by the Spencer and on view September 8 through December 2, 2007. > > > ________________________________ > > > Conference Schedule > Friday, September 28 > > 5:30-8 PM Exhibition opening celebration and Keynote Address by Richard J. Powell, Duke University > > Saturday, September 29 > > 9 AM-10 PM Day-long conference followed by reception and Harlem-style "Rent Party" > > Speakers & Topics > * Gerald Early / Washington University, St. Louis / historical & cultural context > * Amy Kirschke / University of North Carolina, Wilmington / art > * Farrah Jasmine Griffin / Columbia University / literature > * Robert O'Meally / Columbia University / music > * Brenda Dixon Gottschild / Temple University / dance > * David Krasner / Emerson College / theatre > * Terry Adkins / University of Pennsylvania / artist > > Website Coming Soon > > In mid-July the Spencer will launch www.aarondouglas.ku.edu, a comprehensive online source for the Douglas exhibition and conference. Please visit the Douglas website or call the Spencer to register for the conference. > > > ________________________________ > > > Spencer Museum of Art > The University of Kansas > 1301 Mississippi Street > Lawrence, KS 66045-7500 > 785.864.4710 > spencerart@ku.edu > www.spencerart.ku.edu > > Image detail: Aaron Douglas (1899-1979), Aspiration, 1936, oil on canvas, Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco > > > > This e-mail is powered by PatronMail, professional e-mail marketing for arts, nonprofits & creative businesses. > > > > To forward this e-mail to a friend or colleague, use this link . > > This email was sent from Spencer Museum of Art, The University of Kansas > Immediate removal with PatronMail SecureUnsubscribe . > > To change your e-mail address or update preferences, use this link . > > > > > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 23:04:21 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: On the reading in NYC Thursday August 2nd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To further elaborate, on Thurs. 8/2 at ACA Galleries, In NYC, 6:00 p.m. Pavement Saw Press from Columbus, Ohio not only will appear with four readers but I, David Baratier, will introduce and tell stories about how I chose books by all of the readers such as Simon Perchik who will be the feature, a man who, with Paul Blackburn, created what is currently known as The Poetry Project. I read with him back in 2003, which was his last reading in NYC. I convinced him to evict himself from from his cave and substantially emote which is no small thing for this small press champion who has appeared in every press listed in Dustbooks _THE INTERNATIONAL GUIDE TO SMALL PRESSES AND PUBLISHERS_ last year. His previous reading in NYC was over 25 years ago in the early 1970's. Poets who have passed on, such as Charles Olson, William Bronk, Jackson MacLow, Robert Creeley, David Ignatow, and many others as well as living poets such as James Tate, X. J. Kennedy, Naton Leslie, Donald Baker, Robert Peters and many a more star filled cast have had substantially positive things to say about him. The collection I published, _Hands Collected: The Books of Simon Perchik Poems 1949-1999, which placed his first 17 collections back in print, was nominated for the National Book Award and has went through two editions. His next collection _The Family of Man_, another massive 550 plus page book, will appear from Pavement Saw Press in 2008. I do hope you take the time to come and see this rare event. A poet in NYC, Tony Gloeggler's first full length book was published by Pavement Saw Press. He is an underdog, a narrative poet who has been important enough to escape attention but go into a second edition on the strength of the word of mouth created by this narrative collection. I would like to say that many accolades brought him to this point but no, only the strength of his poems, and course adoptions, brought him to a second edition of 1000. He has two other chaps out, one won the Pearl poetry prize. Rachel M. Simon's first book _Theory of Orange_ rankled many and recieved negative notice as a "poet of the moment" from POETRY Magazine while receiving highest accolades from Publishers Weekly. Go Figure. This intriguing first collection is well worth the time, if it matters even Dean Young puts it in the top of his list for 2007. Check it out. Daniel Zimmerman's collection _Post Avant_ changed poetry. Even the idea of "Post Avant" stems from this collection which is perhaps why it has become such a staple in the realm of American poetry. With a solid backing, and forward, by Bob Creeley, this is a collection of note that has done well, again, by word of mouth. Preceeded by a collaboration with one of the most important critics of the later 20th century, John (Jack) Clarke, which was then followed by some brilliant process work from various presses and has solidified his improtance. This is his first book after 30+ years in the field. So yes, I will introduce them all and tell a bunch of jokes in the process. Probably a bunch of the rumors that have been handed me, it is tough to say. Boy I love jokes. And fabrications for that matter. In the past, personal experience with Brad Gooch, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity has made the bill but who knows. If you have more poetic threads for me to consider, please backchannel, I would really hate to repeat material. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:35:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: evolution and language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I really wish sometimes that the folks in the modern linguistics field would pay attention to the work that Frege and Russell did on formal mathematical systems and their subsequent failures to work as an idealized foundation for natural language as pointed out by Wittgenstein repeatedly in Philosophical Investigations. The work of mathematics will never be complete until mathematicians give up the notion of a perfect formal system and formal realism. The work of linguists will never be complete until they give up chomsky and stop looking for the mythical universal grammar. not that that relates to anything, just i think it's much more productive to look at the real world than to build models of the world and look at those as if they were the real world. why would anyone be surprised when a model failed to account for something? that's the nature of models. Jim Andrews wrote: > Well, you know, when non-Euclidean geometry was finally recognized, it > involved, among other things, a simplification of our idea of a straight > line. We kept the notion that it's the shortest distance between two points, > but threw out the specifically Euclidean ideas that obscured whole other > geometries. > > Not that we no longer know what the Euclidean notion of a straight line > involves. > > So too, perhaps, with our notion of what a language is. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > >> Or, to put it another way, we may have entered a period when the >> rather imprecise metaphoric identification of all symbolic systems as >> language may obscure the profound differences between them. >> >> Mark >> >> >> >>> And, just as twentieth century science was >>> dominated by physics, so it seems the twenty first will be by >>> >> studies deeply >> >>> involving language. Such as computation, genetics, and other types of >>> information. >>> >>> Yet, in most cases, apparently language/information/grammar without a >>> sentient author. >>> >>> Fascinating notions of poetry therein. >>> >>> ja >>> http://vispo.com >>> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:30:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm confused now. The moral rights lined out below offer the same protections as copyright does. Moreover, US copyright law as it's currently being jury rigged is on track to be a nightmare of intellectual property protections for anyone thinking to violate the rights of copyright holders. At this point, I'm not even sure i understand why copyright has an expiration date in this country, because everytime a bunch of work looks like it will be entering the public domain, congress just extends the lifespan of copyright. Alison Croggon wrote: >> I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about > legality and >> legal remedies in this poetry context? > > This is boring. But, since Marcus is so insistent, I can't help wondering > why he thinks that copyright does not pertain to poets, unlike every > other > creative artist. Of course there is plenty of precedent. Poetry under the > law is not different than any other kind of writing. > > Here's the Wikipedia definition on moral rights (you USians are a bit > behind > us on that one). Moral rights quite clearly pertain to more than merely > financial considerations. I am, as I said, bored with this conversation, > and only post this for clarity, for those who might be bamboozled by > Marcus's bizarre arguments. > > > *Moral rights* are rights of > creators > of copyrighted works generally > recognized in civil > lawjurisdictions > > and first recognized in > France and > Germany, > before they were included in the Berne Convention for the Protection of > Literary and Artistic > Worksin > > 1928. While the United > States became a signatory to > the convention in 1988, it still does not completely recognize moral > rights > as part of copyright law , > but > rather as part of other bodies of law, such as defamation or unfair > competition. Those jurisdictions that include moral rights in their > copyright statutes are called droit > d'auteurstates, > which literally means "right of the author". > > Moral rights include the right of > attribution, > the right to have a work published > anonymouslyor > pseudonymously , and the right to > the integrity of the work. The preserving the integrity of the work > bars the > work from alteration, distortion or mutilation. Anything else that may > detract from the artist's relationship with the work even after it leaves > the artist's possession or ownership may bring these moral rights into > play. > Moral rights are distinct from any economic > rightstied to copyright, > thus even if an artist has assigned his or her rights to > a work to a third party he or she still maintains the moral rights to the > work. Some jurisdictions allow for the > waiverof moral rights. In the > United States, the Visual > Artists Rights Act > of 1990 (VARA) > recognizes moral rights, but only applies to works of visual > art . > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 21:50:08 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: Crap about cerevolo In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joe Cerevolo is in every way a master poet check out the material available though Spuyten Duvil if you want a written record of it If it makes you feel more important even HR still talks of him. If you want to dispute what his wife has done and made available you are an unlikeable fuckhead. Go to the main site. Since the rest who would ask you have disappeared, What are you talking about? Absent? yeah right. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:13:57 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Ahadada Books Presents Masako's Story; Surviving the Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima by Kikuko Otake MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Masako's Story; Surviving the Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima by Kikuko Otake Ahadada Books, 96 pages, perfect bound paperback, $15.00 ISBN 978-0-9781414-6-2 Soon to be available from SPD, but contact me back-channel if interested in ordering, and/or in contacting the author. More information: www.ahadadabooks.com On August 6, 1945, when the world's first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, the Furuta family was living one mile away from the hypocenter. Five year old Kikuko, her mother, Masako, and her two brothers barely escaped with their lives. However, their soldier father was not so fortunate. Masako never talked about her family's experiences on that day and the grim days following the bombing. Then one day, Masako started to talk about what happened--breaking a silence of nearly fifty years. Written by Kikuko (Furuta) Otake, now an assistant professor of Japanese in the United States, Masako's story is a bilingual collection of prose-poetry, based on the true story of her family's tragedy. The appendix presents the original Japanese poetry written to capture the story as her mother said it in Hiroshima dialect. Moreover, the English translation is written with an "Objectivist" lineation similar in its understated power to Charles Reznikoff's "Testimony": After crossing the Aoi Bridge, I walked diagonally across the grounds of the Gokoku Shrine To take a short cut. Oh. That ground was filled with hundreds of people with horrible burns Scattered everywhere. Many of them were dead. But those that still lived, Begged, "Mizu! Mizu o kudasai," in faint whispers. Soon my way was blocked by their outstretched arms. One of them even grabbed my ankle, though feebly, To stop me from running past him. His burnt skin sloughed off his fingers, As I pulled from his grip. (pg. 23). Kikuko Otake's Masako's Story is a powerful addition to the literature of the Atomic Bomb, and yet more evidence that we should all work together to stop the Nuclear madness. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 01:02:32 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: reJennifer Bartlett Subject: New on SES Bliog Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Ooops forgot the link! saintelizabethstreet.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ http://newlivehotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:44:30 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: gabe's making blogs MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT dear folks, ones who might care to go see, i have been putting up old (and not so old) poetry and a story (just one so far) at a myspace: www.myspace.com/greenwom. today, i have also put up a blogger blog with a story and a musing. i will add more as time goes on. it's at www.greenwomansdream.blogspot.com. all best, gabe/gaby/gabrielle No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 19:02:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Submissions requested for another Big Bridge anthology Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Friends and neighbors-- For a second mini-anthology of poems, this time inspired by/ responding to/related to Czeslaw Milosz's poem "Dedication" and/or the various wars/ insurgencies/etc. going on in the world today, please send 1-6 poems to me at halvard@earthlink.net with the words "Big Bridge" followed by your own name clearly in the subject line. Please, when sending attachments, send all poems in a single attachment. This mini-anthology (approx. 30 poems) will appear in the January issue of Big Bridge, and I'll consider submissions of work received before the end of November. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html Dedication You whom I could not save Listen to me. Try to understand this simple speech as I would be ashamed of another. I swear, there is in me no wizardry of words. I speak to you with silence like a cloud or a tree. What strengthened me, for you was lethal. You mixed up farewell to an epoch with the beginning of a new one, Inspiration of hatred with lyrical beauty, Blind force with accomplished shape. Here is the valley of shallow Polish rivers. And an immense bridge Going into white fog. Here is a broken city, And the wind throws the screams of gulls on your grave When I am talking with you. What is poetry which does not save Nations or people? A connivance with official lies, A song of drunkards whose throats will be cut in a moment, Readings for sophomore girls. That I wanted good poetry without knowing it, That I discovered, late, its salutary aim, In this and only this I find salvation. They used to pour millet on graves or poppy seeds To feed the dead who would come disguised as birds. I put this book here for you, who once lived So that you should visit us no more. --Czeslaw Milosz, Warsaw, 1945 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 18:21:54 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Mother Magazine # 5, summer 1965, Barbara Guest Poem, Brainard Art (forgot link! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Recent posts include scans from Mother Magazine #5 (Summer 1965) featuring Brainard's lush art, and a poem by Barbara Guest that may have gone uncollected? It's the dishiest! "Abusing Nietzsche, they descend in their Joe Brainard pyjamas..." Also, the down low on Sheila Murphy's Skinny Buddha! Please come in...brownies are welcome...I have milk..._http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/poem-by-barbara-guest-in-mother.html_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/poem-by-barbara-guest-in-mother.html) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 17:33:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <605283.40164.qm@web86005.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT That it's possible is self-evident -- why ask such a thing? The important question is not whether you can but whether you should. Just because someone has a right to do something doesn't make it the right thing to do. Marcus On 7 Jul 2007 at 15:14, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > You are a stickler for accuracy bu not when you quote me. > I never asked whether it would be a good idea to sue. > I only asked whether it were possible. > A good talker, not such a good listener. > > Marcus Bales wrote: > > Parlaiment, who prompt law suits by others among the other parties, and who > are ostracised for it, I don't kinow what is. You quote this remarkably detailed > story yourself, and you still ask whether it would be a good idea to actually sue > someone? Extraordinary! > > I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about legality and > legal remedies in this poetry context? Let me quote this bit again: > > "The fact that I was proven right counted for nothing at all. What people > remembered was that I had cause a lot of trouble to these institutions by > asking them to stand up and speak a simple truth." > > Asking people to stand up and speak a simple truth against their economic > self-interest, against their reputational self-interest, against any kind of self- > interest, is deeply problematic. People won't do it without very unusual > circumstances, and even then they resent the hell out of it thereafter, and do > all they can to get back, reputationally ("I was completely isolated. Nobody > spoke to me anymore, ... I was never forgiven, I was always reminded that I > did something terrible."), and they don't forget it. > > It's bad advice to tell people in the poetry game to stand up for their legal > rights and to declare that legal right is on this side or that because the people > who make the decisions that enhance or diminish poetic reputations simply > won't tolerate it. They'll isolate anyone who sues them, and why shouldn't > they? Lawsuits are expensive, time-consuming, and heart-breaking. These > are people who can't even be bothered to respond to inquiry letters and > submissions of poetry for months and months at a time, if at all. They're not in > it for the money, and if you use, or advise others to use, the legal remedies > that may be theoretically available to them, it's career suicide within the poetry > game. Don't do it. > > Marcus > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.1/889 - Release Date: 7/6/2007 8:00 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 17:16:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Marcus Bales wrote: > >I ask Alison again, so what do you think you're doing talking about > legality and legal remedies in this poetry context?< On 8 Jul 2007 at 1:11, Alison Croggon wrote: > ... I can't help wondering > why [Marcus] thinks that copyright does not pertain to poets, > unlike every other creative artist. < Copyright pertains to poets. I'm asking why you think that poets ought to be suing journals, and journals poets, over the disputes they have about things such as editing poems in journals or submitting them simultaneously? What's the point of urging poets to stand up on their legal rights when that is such an obviously bad idea in a gift economy where the first time you sue to enforce your legal rights will probably mean that that's the last poem you ever get published once word gets around that you're willing to sue journals over such trivia? > Of course there is plenty of precedent. Poetry under the > law is not different than any other kind of writing.< You're in the unenviable position of arguing that people should take de minimus issues to court. Would you also urge husbands and wives to sue one another over whether they got sex, or dinner was on time, or no agreement to go over to the in-laws on Saturday, or the like while the couple still wants to remain married? The law has no business, and, thank god, no interest, in settling disputes between husbands and wives over who got sex or didn't, nor in settling disputes between poets and editors over who got published or didn't, or who changed a poem or didn't. It may become an issue if money comes into it, such as in divorce proceedings or if the poet becomes famous and the poem is actually worth money to print or re-print, but only then. Shouting about one's legal rights in a gift economy is a recipe for career disaster, so I hope no one takes Alison's advice about it. But I'd recommend Jason's advice not to sign any contracts that contain the words "work for hire" in them, if you're lucky enough to be offered a contract to write something. Marcus ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 16:15:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable one of my favorite encounters with the "concrete" has been the subtitle for= an outift named Sorci iN the MilwauKee area that provides dumpeters and mo= ving equipment for smaller hoome-oriented construction and removal--I enco= unter these fairly often of late in workings on rubBEings, Intermedia & Cla= y Impression Spray Paintings--they always bring some good humor to the cour= se of events--especially when one is inside one of the dumpsters and thinki= ng of these various forms--beneath the logo Sorci it readsRUBBISH--METAL--C= ONCRETEthere has also been Concrete Cinema, Musique Concret--the Concrete h= as always moved in many directions among many Intermedia--CONCRETE JUNGLE f= or example!!!"Shoes of Concrete"!!!!--a traditional form of corpse disposal= --"you gotta head like concrete"--from rubbish to metal to concrete--a form= of the process known as "subliming"---among alchemical wastelands and chem= ical pitfalls . . . from erosion and corrosion is arisen the vision--IF YOU= CONCRETEPLEASE BE DISCRETE> Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 14:06:14 -0400> From: dw= aber@LOGOLALIA.COM> Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BU= FFALO.EDU> > Jim,> > Thank you for your comments on Marko's work--often mor= e than meets the> eye with his work.> > > ps: By the way, you mention Tish = in connection with concrete, Dan. But, as> > far as I know, Lionel Kearns w= as the only one from Tish who was involved in> > concrete poetry. Tish was = not particularly experimental, at least concerning> > media, as far as I kn= ow.> > My intention was no to connect Tish or the other schools/movements> = with concrete. Quite the contrary, in fact. I was trying to say that> concr= ete, while it was in fact for a period of time a school/movement,> doesn't = properly belong to that class of objects. It's not a> school/movement like = Tish or Black Mountain is. It is a tool to be> used, a way of approaching c= ertain challenges. Approaching them, as> you say, with a "consciousness of = media and the dimensionality of> language and its manifestations." This is = a working definition that is> in-line with my own.> > Regards,> Dan> > > > = pss: Concrete, to me, is grounded not so much in the visual as in> > consci= ousness of media and the dimensionality of language and its> > manifestatio= ns. _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 03:10:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > one of my favorite encounters with the "concrete" has been the > subtitle for an outift named Sorci iN the MilwauKee area that > provides dumpsters and moving equipment for smaller > home-oriented construction and removal--I encounter these fairly > often of late in workings on rubBEings, Intermedia & Clay > Impression Spray Paintings--they always bring some good humor to > the course of events--especially when one is inside one of the > dumpsters and thinking of these various forms Erm, what are you doing in these dumpsters, David? I take it they've got home-oriented construction/removal stuff in them, and you're doing "rubBEings, intermedia and clay impression spray paintings", but I'm not sure what sort of work that is. When I visited Dallas, we did a media art gig (on nuclear annihilation) in a concrete cave. In the bowels of what used to be a big concrete warehouse. The space was cavernous, dark, and with extrorinarily high ceilings. Some of the walls had been destroyed with sledgehammers, and the destroyed parts opened into a yet deeper, near bottomless pit that almost conversed with you when you spoke into it, so pronounced were the echoes. Visiting Dallas, I'd expected to meet Nick, but I hadn't expected to end up in the pit. There was enough concrete dust to kill a tubercular novelist. The textures of the destroyed portions of the wall reminded me of a cave. It was like a post-apocalyptic bunker. In any case, it was just so concrete. So urban. So empty. So evocative, nonetheless. The urban cave is concrete. Harkening not to a prehistoric past but a post-apocalyptic future. It's interesting that 'concrete' is often used as the 'opposite' of 'abstract'. As though there could be nothing less abstract than concrete. All abstraction has been limed away (the reverse of the subliming process you speak of?). The utter base reality. Utter. Totally without the slightest hint of even the dimmest glimmer of mentality. The weight of the physical world. But wait. Concrete dumb and the true exemplar of the insensate fundament? It is made by people, subject to various chemical processes. Perhaps, then, concrete as 'foundational'. Concrete is one of the fundamental building materials and the foundations of buildings are often made of concrete. The concrete mind, the mind of the child. That is thought to deal in particulars, not so much in abstraction. Or at least the materials in which it deals are more fundamental. The materials. The fundamentals. The fundament. > --beneath the logo > Sorci it reads RUBBISH--METAL--CONCRETE Cool. > there has also been > Concrete Cinema, Musique Concret--the Concrete has always moved > in many directions among many Intermedia--CONCRETE JUNGLE for > example!!! Ehe, concrete jungle and musique concrete, yes. > "Shoes of Concrete"!!!!--a traditional form of corpse > disposal--"you gotta head like concrete"--from rubbish to metal > to concrete--a form of the process known as "subliming"---among > alchemical wastelands and chemical pitfalls . . . from erosion > and corrosion is arisen the vision--IF YOU CONCRETE PLEASE BE > DISCRETE What's this? ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 09:54:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468FCA7A.26611.7631953@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit But they do. It's called divorce. You're in the unenviable position of arguing that people should take de minimus issues to court. Would you also urge husbands and wives to sue one another over whether they got sex, or dinner was on time, or no agreement to go over to the in-laws on Saturday, or the like while the couple still wants to remain married? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:37:58 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <468FCA7A.26611.7631953@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I don't know why I'm saying this. I have never, at any time, suggested that anyone sue anybody. Having been sued myself, I have rather stern views about writers suing people. This is an entirely different issue from knowing one's rights under the law. A distinction that Marcus seems to have trouble with, (but then, he has rather peculiar ideas about how the legal system actually works - I wonder what real world he lives in?); but I hope nobody else does. And, I promise, no matter what the provocation, I will try to stay schtumm now. All best A -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:06:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Note: I apologize my letters come out so jammed, so concretely packed as it= were--hotmail changed and on some lists they come out fine and some not. = Maybe i should try subscribing via different mail server.Dear Jim:Many than= ks for your letter and thought provoking ideas and questions--- Concret= e of course is foundational--and one of the interesting things about that i= s how easily and relatively quickly concrete actually cracks, disintegrates= , wears down for a "foundational" material. Think of potholes, leaky base= ments, cracked and fragmenting sidewalks . . . one of the pleasures of the = concrete in the world for me is always just just this--the very cracking, f= alling apart, imminent collapse, urban decay, all those crumbling concrete = buildings of the former Soviet Bloc, American Projects, Italian Fascist hou= sing and train stations--concrete structures the world over which are rapid= ly becoming the ruins of failed Utopias which seem dimmer today than vision= s of Atlantis to the hundreds of millions living in --or in the shadows of-= -their tottering structures and proliferating dusts and debris. If you t= hink about it, the closest thing to an actual physical concrete as foundati= onal is the Roman concrete--after all--their roads, bridges, aqueducts, col= iseums, theaters--there are a very great many still in use today and it = seems that footage of disasters in Europe is always showing how the new "in= destructible" materials have been destroyed, while the Roman structures rem= ain standing and functioning. Not only that--as we write here now you and = i, we are using the Roman alphabet, whether we make concrete poems or pure = unadulterated gibberish or statements of fact drawn from Sabermetrics regar= ding Tony Gwynn's career on base percentage (OBP) after the seventh inning = in night games in San Diego (home) and away. The place you describe i= n Dallas--i have lived in a number of in various versions--in the usa and i= n paris--and in Boston there were a couple such places that were strictly "= shooting galleries"--heroin addicts only- the foundation walls alone were c= oncrete--masses of cracks--leakge and botchy stains on the grey--it was dam= p so the dust stayed pretty much on the floor--there were the corpses of ma= ttresses scattered about with living dead humans lying on them--and theonl= y water to use for the shooting up was from rusty piepes--the sort of place= where it is the eternal now--dictated by the heoin-run metabolism--no past= , no future--no caves--no apocalypse--no "post" anything--and no "past--we = used to call it the "non-zone" a friend and i--aka the "nod-zone"--and the = spectral shoddy rusting remnants of a former Piranesian interior registered= as neither interesting or uninteresting on the "non-scale" of "non-emotion= s"--It is only later, as Burroughs notes also--that one is able to descibe = or analyze any of these thousands of "non-experiences" as actual happenings= with materials of interest and use in making things out of the "non-ness".= To bring back from the world of the living-dead. (Some of my publi= shed stories have a few places similar toi these in them and working on a s= eries whcih all take place in and around one massive interior such as you d= escribe--except not cave-like--being in Boston--more like a collapsed and c= aving in interior of the old Constitution (is that the right name)--the old= battleship in Boston Harbour--imagine that ruined in a battle--and blown u= p a few stories high--and in winter!!!--) The physical sense of concret= e--as opposed to abstraction--is very true--yet what is strange about much = lnguage in concrete poetry and of course the so -called "material" word in = Language poetry--is that they quickly become quite abstract--they begin to = refer more and more to an idea of a pure language than to the foundation of= the dirt and blood and junk of human and other existences among things. A = concrete poem begins to refer only to itself and in doing so becomes not a = foundation, but an epitome. It becomes purer and purer and its functions m= ore and more abstractly functional. That it is, it becomes a demonstration= -machine (WCW's "a poem is a machine made of words"--often now of one word)= --of ways the functions of a letter, word, a bit of grammer or syntax, can = be "played" with/on. This isn't so much "foundational " as 'elemental" n= the sense of partilces, elements, which go into the creation of a structur= e, a composition. "It is not the elements which are new, but the order of = their arrangement" says Pascal. To me, concrete poetry is actually much mo= re related to some aspects of abstract art and also to the early days of th= e use of tape recorders in the creation of sound poetry. (Henri Chopin and= Bob Cobbing among many others have written some veryeloquent essays on thi= s period of development in the machine-use of the human voice in a "concret= e" manner which at the same time is abstract--that is, abstracted from the = actual voice and, as an element in recorded time on seperate tapes, can be = remixed and so like Pascal's elements "arranged" in new orders of astonishi= ng range and effect. The mult-or Intermedia (Dick Higgins) aspects of conc= rete are in this abstraction into elements--the elements in the differing m= edia--sound, film, video, sculpture, words, etc-- broken down to their elem= ents in terms of the most basic--letters for example as in Lettrisme--and i= nto basic elements of syntax, grammer--the sound/visual and space/time elem= ental components. But is this in itself "foundational"? It depends on = one's sense of where the foundations are--if they end here--then they are. = Yet if they do not--tthey then extend into the "actual concrete" of the ph= ysically existing environment. Bob Cobbing, who began in the 1940's with v= isual scores which used no lexical signs--worked through the sense of score= s in concrete sound poetry and arrived at the voice only expressing whateve= r literally "came to hand". To me this is the extension of the concrete t= o the "foundational" of human voice and of as Chung Tzu puts it "Look under= your feet!"--that is, the foundation of what one literally is standing on.= That is how I came quite some long time ago to find the wa= y of working with found materials from the streets and then even more direc= tly on/with found materials in the streets. RubBeings and the clay impress= ion spray paitings and many other equally simple techniques and media--abou= t at the level of a five year old child--my youngest son is five and easily= i would say ahead of me--in so many ways--with these one works directly in= contact and with collaboration with the materials themselves--about as 'co= ncrete' as one can get. In this work what one is often really detailing, a= s Cocteau said of the cinema, is "death at work"--decay, deComposition, the= falling apart of the foundational as it becomes something other--and parad= oxically is simulateneously a foundational elment in one's work--there is w= hat i call an "anarkeyological" energy at the core of this chnage which is= the basis of art according to Basho--the anarchical shiftings and deCompos= tions and layerings and collapses of strata--"the most beaitufl world is a = heap of rubble tossed down in confusion (or: at random, depending on the tr= ansaltion)--Heraclitus. I have to leave this moment unfortunately or= wd try to add a few thoughts--to see some examples of my work and that of = many others working in all sorts of media--my blogspot ishttp://davidbaptis= techirot.blogspot.comlater tonight and tomorrow morning will be two more en= tries--one is re contemporary collage and historcial examples--and the othe= r re photography an some aspects of visual poetry--and then more on House P= ress, and cy Bulletins (Sean Bonney and Frances Kruk and Sophie Robinson es= p) and many other things--recent things have included some joe brainard and= bp Nichol courtesy of jw curry--etc > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2= 007 03:10:33 -0700> From: jim@VISPO.COM> Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi> To= : POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > > one of my favorite encounters with the = "concrete" has been the> > subtitle for an outift named Sorci iN the Milwau= Kee area that> > provides dumpsters and moving equipment for smaller> > hom= e-oriented construction and removal--I encounter these fairly> > often of l= ate in workings on rubBEings, Intermedia & Clay> > Impression Spray Paintin= gs--they always bring some good humor to> > the course of events--especiall= y when one is inside one of the> > dumpsters and thinking of these various = forms> > Erm, what are you doing in these dumpsters, David? I take it they'= ve got> home-oriented construction/removal stuff in them, and you're doing>= "rubBEings, intermedia and clay impression spray paintings", but I'm not> = sure what sort of work that is.> > When I visited Dallas, we did a media ar= t gig (on nuclear annihilation) in a> concrete cave. In the bowels of what = used to be a big concrete warehouse.> The space was cavernous, dark, and wi= th extrorinarily high ceilings. Some of> the walls had been destroyed with = sledgehammers, and the destroyed parts> opened into a yet deeper, near bott= omless pit that almost conversed with you> when you spoke into it, so prono= unced were the echoes. Visiting Dallas, I'd> expected to meet Nick, but I h= adn't expected to end up in the pit. There was> enough concrete dust to kil= l a tubercular novelist. The textures of the> destroyed portions of the wal= l reminded me of a cave. It was like a> post-apocalyptic bunker. In any cas= e, it was just so concrete. So urban. So> empty. So evocative, nonetheless.= The urban cave is concrete. Harkening not> to a prehistoric past but a pos= t-apocalyptic future.> > It's interesting that 'concrete' is often used as = the 'opposite' of> 'abstract'. As though there could be nothing less abstra= ct than concrete.> All abstraction has been limed away (the reverse of the = subliming process> you speak of?). The utter base reality. Utter. Totally w= ithout the slightest> hint of even the dimmest glimmer of mentality. The we= ight of the physical> world. But wait. Concrete dumb and the true exemplar = of the insensate> fundament? It is made by people, subject to various chemi= cal processes.> Perhaps, then, concrete as 'foundational'. Concrete is one = of the> fundamental building materials and the foundations of buildings are= often> made of concrete. The concrete mind, the mind of the child. That is= thought> to deal in particulars, not so much in abstraction. Or at least t= he> materials in which it deals are more fundamental. The materials. The> f= undamentals. The fundament.> > > --beneath the logo> > Sorci it reads RUBBI= SH--METAL--CONCRETE> > Cool.> > > there has also been> > Concrete Cinema, M= usique Concret--the Concrete has always moved> > in many directions among m= any Intermedia--CONCRETE JUNGLE for> > example!!!> > Ehe, concrete jungle a= nd musique concrete, yes.> > > "Shoes of Concrete"!!!!--a traditional form = of corpse> > disposal--"you gotta head like concrete"--from rubbish to meta= l> > to concrete--a form of the process known as "subliming"---among> > alc= hemical wastelands and chemical pitfalls . . . from erosion> > and corrosio= n is arisen the vision--IF YOU CONCRETE PLEASE BE> > DISCRETE> > What's thi= s?> > ja> http://vispo.com _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 12:05:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: listenlight magazine In-Reply-To: <43963.52814.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT You quoted the sentence that ends "while the couple still wants to remain married" -- did you fail to read the final clause? Did you fail to read the acknowledgment immediately following about divorce? Of course people go to law about divorce -- because there are money issues over which they disagree and cannot resolve their differences without recourse to the law. The question I'm asking, that I explicitly asked Alison, and now that I ask you, is whether you advocate that the law should be invited into, as a matter of course, such issues as when a married couple that wants to stay married has sex, or where they go to dinner, or whether they go to his or her inlaws over the holidays? Do you advocate that the law should be the ordinary recourse between poets and editors over whether a poem is good or bad, or is well- or ill-edited? Are you, really? Marcus On 8 Jul 2007 at 9:54, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > But they do. It's called divorce. > > > You're in the unenviable position of arguing that people should take de > minimus issues to court. Would you also urge husbands and wives to sue one > another over whether they got sex, or dinner was on time, or no agreement to > go over to the in-laws on Saturday, or the like while the couple still wants to > remain married? > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/890 - Release Date: 7/7/2007 3:26 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:36:57 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Sunday Pyjamas Talk about Sex Addiction and More Serious Matters (forgot link! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sunday morning brings a response to the pope's reverse-infallibility ruling from Terezin concentration camp. Also a review of a recent film by Caveh Zahedi. Feel free to visit in YOUR pyjamas too...it's an equalizing gesture....and if your have feet I will be jealous. "Abusing Nietzsche, they descend in their Joe Brainard pyjamas..." _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/review-of-i-am-sex-addict-2005.html_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/review-of-i-am-sex-addict-2005.html) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 00:01:02 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Past Simple Rave MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Friends, past simple three is up. Enjoy it. Eat it for lunch. www.pastsimple.org take care, Jim Super great issue. Take out or eat in. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 14:19:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Fwd: Joe book advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The below message is a request for info from Ron Padgett. Please backchannel your suggestions so that I can forward them all in one email to him. And thank you for any help on the matter! The publisher of Joe Brainard's forthcoming THE NANCY BOOK (a collection of his Nancy images, as well as his Nancy writings, with an introduction by Ann Lauterbach) has asked me for the following info, and I'm relaying the question to you, since you know 100 times more about it than I do: Names/contact info for various blogs, listservs and sites that have had an interest in or featured Joe's work in particular, New York School work in general, etc. Also, names of on-line literary and art reviews, individual bloggers, etc. who you know and you think would be excited about the book so that they can link to Siglio and/or talk about the book. Can you get back to me within the next few days? Thanks. Ron --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 19:00:48 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: TINFISH'S JUNE CATCH Comments: To: jacinta galea'i , Glenn Mott , Gary Pak , "Theodore S. Gonzalves" , Glenn K Man , Greg_Herbst@nps.gov, Geraldine Monk , Ken J Goto , Lesa Griffith , Gary Chun , Arielle Greenberg , Lee Herrick , Lee Gutkind , Gay Sibley , Philip James Gaudette , Peter Gizzi , Gini Dietrich , gcspivak@gmail.com, guitart@buffalo.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TINFISH HOT OFF THE PRESS (soon : pre-order now!) Someday I’ll Be Sitting in a Dingy Bar, by Hwang Jiwoo Translated by Scott Swaner and Young-Jun Lee, $10.00 http://tinfishpress.com/hot_off_the_press.html Counting Corpses, by Sarith Peou Forward by Ed Bok Lee, $12.00 http://tinfishpress.com/hot_off_the_press.html Also new and out from Tinfish Press Tinfish 17, $10.00 http://tinfishpress.com/hot_off_the_press.html Order from Tinfish Press, 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9, Kane`ohe, HI 96744 or from Small Press Distribution (spdbooks.org) Please support small press publications. Susan M. Schultz Editor ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:52:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: time-lapse of hanging a show Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Last Thursday night (July 5th) we hung the show "Guns In Loving Memory" at Test Pattern in Scranton, Pennsylvania (USA). During the hanging I set up a camera to take a picture every 30 seconds. All went mostly as planned, except it stopped shooting about a half an hour before we were really finished. My fault, I let the batteries run out, though, in my defense, the hanging did take a bit longer than originally planned (150 pieces is a lotta nails to measure placement for), and by the time we were done my top mental priority wasn't on power to the camera. If you'd like to watch a time-lapse sequence of images that covers almost the entire hanging of the show, you're invited to view it via a pair of options at: http://www.logolalia.com/time-lapse.html This record of the event would not have happened at all were it not for the hugely generous help and loan of equipment from my friend and roommate Dave. There will also be a 360 degree panorama image of the entire gallery after the hanging was complete, he's working on stitching those images together even as you read this. Thanks also to Conor, Andrea, Jennifer, Helen, and David for all their help in making the event come off without a hitch. And, of course, thanks to Test Pattern hosting the event in fine fashion. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:05:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francis Raven Subject: Nest, Poetry by Francis Raven, Proceeds Benefit Nest, the nonprofit In-Reply-To: <552625.83310.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Announcing _Nest_, A New Book of Poetry By Francis Raven Published By Nest, the nonprofit (http://www.buildanest.org/), $15 paper Available for Purchase By Following this Link: http://shop.buildanest.com/products/poetry-book To make a nest we need a home, stuff to put in that home, and a loving community. _Nest_ explores each of these needs in poetry that is both accessible and directly relates to the lives we actually lead. Buying this book will not only fulfill your need to expand your mind, it will also fulfill your need to give to others since the proceeds from the sale of the book, Nest, will be donated to the nonprofit, Nest. Nest, the nonprofit, is an organization dedicated to changing the lives of women in developing countries. The mission of Nest is to support women artists and artisans in the developing world by helping them create sustainable entrepreneurial businesses. To do this, Nest provides micro-credit loans to be used for the purchase of the supplies and materials necessary to begin and/or maintain art or craft-based businesses. Francis Raven is a graduate student in philosophy at Temple University. His first novel, Inverted Curvatures (Spuyten Duyvil, 2006), and book of poems, Taste: Gastronomic Poems (Blazevox 2005), were recently published. -- Francis Raven 8 Saint Germain Apt. 1 Boston MA 02115 Check out my work at: http://ravensaesthetica.blogspot.com/ Email: francisraven@gmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! http://maps.live.com/?wip=69&FORM=MGAC01 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: death's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed death's I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I harbor death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a motion _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of death: http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of all. Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation of the paradoxes of mathematics: http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours data-base and protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and universe: http://www.asondheim.org/index.html Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I dream death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's dreaming: http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I succumb to death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice which is no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's stricture, of death's interface, of my collapse of death: http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. Here is a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is a nonexistent configuration of death's silence: http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, no drum, no whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's grip, death's claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my bone: http://www.asondheim.org/placespace It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. Here is the nonexistent missive: http://www.asondheim.org/placespace ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 16:46:46 -0700 Reply-To: Del Ray Cross Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO 30 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Rubber Duckies, Shampoo issue 30 is ready and waiting for your fingertips. =20 Check it out here: www.ShampooPoetry.com You'll find poems by rockstars Kathryn Zurlo, John Moore Williams, Ann Stephenson, Matina L. Stamatakis, Xu Smith, Alveraz Ricardez,=20 Catherine Paquette, Ben Mirov, Diana Magallon, Cassie Lewis, Tom=20 Laverty, Jane Joritz-Nakagawa, Anne Heide, Arpine Konyalian=20 Grenier, Andrew Demcak, Martha L. Deed, Ron Czerwien, Otto Chan,=20 Lindsey Boldt, Stan Apps, Michael Aiken, Diana Adams, and Rachel=20 Abramowitz, along with ice creamy ShampooArt by Otto Chan. Keep it clean, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO clean hair / good poetry www.ShampooPoetry.com (if you'd prefer not to receive these messages, just let me know) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:45:52 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: North-4 Text-5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is #20 of a projected 35 texts: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/North-4/text-5.htm Introduction: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/Intro.htm Notes:=20 This is the last in a row of five linked texts. The button in the right-hand lower corner takes one back to the contents = page.=20 The button in the left-hand lower corner takes one back to the previous = text. Designed for screen resolution: 1024x768, Text size: Medium, Monitor: = 17" or larger, MS Explorer browser.=20 Paratext boxes are opened by holding cursor over words. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 18:24:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Sunday Pyjamas Talk about Sex Addiction and More Serious Matters (forgot link! In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit you are a fun guy On 7/8/07 11:36 AM, "W.B. Keckler" wrote: > Sunday morning brings a response to the pope's reverse-infallibility ruling > from Terezin concentration camp. Also a review of a recent film by Caveh > Zahedi. Feel free to visit in YOUR pyjamas too...it's an equalizing > gesture....and if your have feet I will be jealous. "Abusing Nietzsche, they > descend in > their Joe Brainard pyjamas..." > _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/review-of-i-am-sex-addict-200 > 5.html_ > (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/2007/07/review-of-i-am-sex-addict-200 > 5.html) > > > > > ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:16:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable FYI: I have discovered the best way to read D B-C is to hit 'reply' - The mile long lines are then cut in half into a much more readable column. David, I think, is the answer to the sometimes question,"Whatever happened to that brilliant, irrepressible talking student who stopped coming to class, dropped out and disappeared from campus, leaving only a barely visiible 'chem trail' hanging over the local horizon." Much glad he's stil= l kicking, talking and... Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Current home of the 'Glasgow Puppets'! > Note: I apologize my letters come out so jammed, so concretely packed as = it > were--hotmail changed and on some lists they come out fine and some not. > Maybe i should try subscribing via different mail server.Dear Jim:Many th= anks > for your letter and thought provoking ideas and questions--- Concrete= of > course is foundational--and one of the interesting things about that is h= ow > easily and relatively quickly concrete actually cracks, disintegrates, we= ars > down for a "foundational" material. Think of potholes, leaky basements, > cracked and fragmenting sidewalks . . . one of the pleasures of the concr= ete > in the world for me is always just just this--the very cracking, falling > apart, imminent collapse, urban decay, all those crumbling concrete build= ings > of the former Soviet Bloc, American Projects, Italian Fascist housing and > train stations--concrete structures the world over which are rapidly beco= ming > the ruins of failed Utopias which seem dimmer today than visions of Atlan= tis > to the hundreds of millions living in --or in the shadows of--their totte= ring > structures and proliferating dusts and debris. If you think about it, = the > closest thing to an actual physical concrete as foundational is the Roman > concrete--after all--their roads, bridges, aqueducts, coliseums, > theaters--there are a very great many still in use today and it seems = that > footage of disasters in Europe is always showing how the new "indestructi= ble" > materials have been destroyed, while the Roman structures remain standing= and > functioning. Not only that--as we write here now you and i, we are using= the > Roman alphabet, whether we make concrete poems or pure unadulterated gibb= erish > or statements of fact drawn from Sabermetrics regarding Tony Gwynn's care= er on > base percentage (OBP) after the seventh inning in night games in San Dieg= o > (home) and away. The place you describe in Dallas--i have lived in = a > number of in various versions--in the usa and in paris--and in Boston the= re > were a couple such places that were strictly "shooting galleries"--heroin > addicts only- the foundation walls alone were concrete--masses of > cracks--leakge and botchy stains on the grey--it was damp so the dust sta= yed > pretty much on the floor--there were the corpses of mattresses scattered = about > with living dead humans lying on them--and theonly water to use for the > shooting up was from rusty piepes--the sort of place where it is the eter= nal > now--dictated by the heoin-run metabolism--no past, no future--no caves--= no > apocalypse--no "post" anything--and no "past--we used to call it the > "non-zone" a friend and i--aka the "nod-zone"--and the spectral shoddy ru= sting > remnants of a former Piranesian interior registered as neither interestin= g or > uninteresting on the "non-scale" of "non-emotions"--It is only later, as > Burroughs notes also--that one is able to descibe or analyze any of these > thousands of "non-experiences" as actual happenings with materials of int= erest > and use in making things out of the "non-ness". To bring back from the w= orld > of the living-dead. (Some of my published stories have a few place= s > similar toi these in them and working on a series whcih all take place in= and > around one massive interior such as you describe--except not cave-like--b= eing > in Boston--more like a collapsed and caving in interior of the old > Constitution (is that the right name)--the old battleship in Boston > Harbour--imagine that ruined in a battle--and blown up a few stories high= --and > in winter!!!--) The physical sense of concrete--as opposed to > abstraction--is very true--yet what is strange about much lnguage in conc= rete > poetry and of course the so -called "material" word in Language poetry--i= s > that they quickly become quite abstract--they begin to refer more and mor= e to > an idea of a pure language than to the foundation of the dirt and blood a= nd > junk of human and other existences among things. A concrete poem begins t= o > refer only to itself and in doing so becomes not a foundation, but an epi= tome. > It becomes purer and purer and its functions more and more abstractly > functional. That it is, it becomes a demonstration-machine (WCW's "a poe= m is > a machine made of words"--often now of one word)--of ways the functions o= f a > letter, word, a bit of grammer or syntax, can be "played" with/on. Thi= s > isn't so much "foundational " as 'elemental" n the sense of partilces, > elements, which go into the creation of a structure, a composition. "It = is > not the elements which are new, but the order of their arrangement" says > Pascal. To me, concrete poetry is actually much more related to some asp= ects > of abstract art and also to the early days of the use of tape recorders i= n the > creation of sound poetry. (Henri Chopin and Bob Cobbing among many other= s > have written some veryeloquent essays on this period of development in th= e > machine-use of the human voice in a "concrete" manner which at the same t= ime > is abstract--that is, abstracted from the actual voice and, as an element= in > recorded time on seperate tapes, can be remixed and so like Pascal's elem= ents > "arranged" in new orders of astonishing range and effect. The mult-or > Intermedia (Dick Higgins) aspects of concrete are in this abstraction int= o > elements--the elements in the differing media--sound, film, video, sculpt= ure, > words, etc-- broken down to their elements in terms of the most basic--le= tters > for example as in Lettrisme--and into basic elements of syntax, grammer--= the > sound/visual and space/time elemental components. But is this in itse= lf > "foundational"? It depends on one's sense of where the foundations are--= if > they end here--then they are. Yet if they do not--tthey then extend into= the > "actual concrete" of the physically existing environment. Bob Cobbing, w= ho > began in the 1940's with visual scores which used no lexical signs--worke= d > through the sense of scores in concrete sound poetry and arrived at the v= oice > only expressing whatever literally "came to hand". To me this is the > extension of the concrete to the "foundational" of human voice and of as = Chung > Tzu puts it "Look under your feet!"--that is, the foundation of what one > literally is standing on. That is how I came quite some l= ong > time ago to find the way of working with found materials from the streets= and > then even more directly on/with found materials in the streets. RubBeing= s and > the clay impression spray paitings and many other equally simple techniqu= es > and media--about at the level of a five year old child--my youngest son i= s > five and easily i would say ahead of me--in so many ways--with these one = works > directly in contact and with collaboration with the materials > themselves--about as 'concrete' as one can get. In this work what one is > often really detailing, as Cocteau said of the cinema, is "death at > work"--decay, deComposition, the falling apart of the foundational as it > becomes something other--and paradoxically is simulateneously a foundatio= nal > elment in one's work--there is what i call an "anarkeyological" energy a= t the > core of this chnage which is the basis of art according to Basho--the > anarchical shiftings and deCompostions and layerings and collapses of > strata--"the most beaitufl world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confu= sion > (or: at random, depending on the transaltion)--Heraclitus. I have = to > leave this moment unfortunately or wd try to add a few thoughts--to see s= ome > examples of my work and that of many others working in all sorts of media= --my > blogspot ishttp://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.comlater tonight and tomor= row > morning will be two more entries--one is re contemporary collage and > historcial examples--and the other re photography an some aspects of visu= al > poetry--and then more on House Press, and cy Bulletins (Sean Bonney and > Frances Kruk and Sophie Robinson esp) and many other things--recent thing= s > have included some joe brainard and bp Nichol courtesy of jw curry--etc > > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 03:10:33 -0700> From: jim@VISPO.COM> Subject: Re:= 13 > by Marko Niemi> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > > one of my favorite > encounters with the "concrete" has been the> > subtitle for an outift nam= ed > Sorci iN the MilwauKee area that> > provides dumpsters and moving equipme= nt > for smaller> > home-oriented construction and removal--I encounter these > fairly> > often of late in workings on rubBEings, Intermedia & Clay> > > Impression Spray Paintings--they always bring some good humor to> > the c= ourse > of events--especially when one is inside one of the> > dumpsters and thin= king > of these various forms> > Erm, what are you doing in these dumpsters, Dav= id? I > take it they've got> home-oriented construction/removal stuff in them, an= d > you're doing> "rubBEings, intermedia and clay impression spray paintings"= , but > I'm not> sure what sort of work that is.> > When I visited Dallas, we did= a > media art gig (on nuclear annihilation) in a> concrete cave. In the bowel= s of > what used to be a big concrete warehouse.> The space was cavernous, dark,= and > with extrorinarily high ceilings. Some of> the walls had been destroyed w= ith > sledgehammers, and the destroyed parts> opened into a yet deeper, near > bottomless pit that almost conversed with you> when you spoke into it, so > pronounced were the echoes. Visiting Dallas, I'd> expected to meet Nick, = but I > hadn't expected to end up in the pit. There was> enough concrete dust to = kill > a tubercular novelist. The textures of the> destroyed portions of the wal= l > reminded me of a cave. It was like a> post-apocalyptic bunker. In any cas= e, it > was just so concrete. So urban. So> empty. So evocative, nonetheless. The > urban cave is concrete. Harkening not> to a prehistoric past but a > post-apocalyptic future.> > It's interesting that 'concrete' is often use= d as > the 'opposite' of> 'abstract'. As though there could be nothing less abst= ract > than concrete.> All abstraction has been limed away (the reverse of the > subliming process> you speak of?). The utter base reality. Utter. Totally > without the slightest> hint of even the dimmest glimmer of mentality. The > weight of the physical> world. But wait. Concrete dumb and the true exemp= lar > of the insensate> fundament? It is made by people, subject to various che= mical > processes.> Perhaps, then, concrete as 'foundational'. Concrete is one of= the> > fundamental building materials and the foundations of buildings are often= > > made of concrete. The concrete mind, the mind of the child. That is thoug= ht> > to deal in particulars, not so much in abstraction. Or at least the> mate= rials > in which it deals are more fundamental. The materials. The> fundamentals.= The > fundament.> > > --beneath the logo> > Sorci it reads RUBBISH--METAL--CONC= RETE> > > Cool.> > > there has also been> > Concrete Cinema, Musique Concret--the > Concrete has always moved> > in many directions among many > Intermedia--CONCRETE JUNGLE for> > example!!!> > Ehe, concrete jungle and > musique concrete, yes.> > > "Shoes of Concrete"!!!!--a traditional form o= f > corpse> > disposal--"you gotta head like concrete"--from rubbish to metal= > > > to concrete--a form of the process known as "subliming"---among> > alchem= ical > wastelands and chemical pitfalls . . . from erosion> > and corrosion is a= risen > the vision--IF YOU CONCRETE PLEASE BE> > DISCRETE> > What's this?> > ja> > http://vispo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > See what you=B9re getting into=8Abefore you go there. > http://newlivehotmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 17:31:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Joe book advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Raises hand! Feel free to put me down as one of the Joeophiles. I love his poetry as much as I do his art in other media, and am happy to see Mr. Padgett is continuing the work of a friendship which he already has tended so beautifully with his recent book on Joe! It reminds me of my aunt in California using baby oil to clean her sister's grave. That sort of thing always moves me tremendously. My blog is _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) . And I'm psyched about the Nancy book A.L. is curatin'. Finally, more Joe! Why it's like "seven minutes with Woody Woodpecker, seven minutes of pure bliss!" "Abusing Nietzsche, they descend in their Joe Brainard pyjamas..." ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 23:53:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: death's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim writes: > death's > > > I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I > harbor > death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg > > That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a > motion > _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of > death: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg > > That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of > all. > Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation > of the > paradoxes of mathematics: > http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt > > That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours > data-base and > protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and > universe: > http://www.asondheim.org/index.html > > Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I > dream > death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's > dreaming: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf > > Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I > succumb to > death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice > which is > no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's > stricture, of > death's interface, of my collapse of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe > > Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. > Here is > a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: > http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl > > It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's > > annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is > a > nonexistent configuration of death's silence: > http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini > > It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, > no drum, no > whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's > grip, death's > claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my > bone: > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. > Here is the > nonexistent missive: > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:52:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit have been enjoying the rubBeings at http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com and http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007_06_24_archive.html , david. it's in fascinating relation with concrete but, as you imply, it isn't concrete poetry. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:31:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 Gerald S. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 04:52:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karen Randall Subject: Re: death's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Dostoevsky's character in Notes from the Underground > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: death's > From: "steve d. dalachinsky" > Date: Sun, July 08, 2007 11:53 pm > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > writes: > > death's > > > > > > I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I > > harbor > > death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: > > http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg > > > > That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a > > motion > > _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of > > death: > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg > > > > That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of > > all. > > Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation > > of the > > paradoxes of mathematics: > > http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt > > > > That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours > > data-base and > > protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and > > universe: > > http://www.asondheim.org/index.html > > > > Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I > > dream > > death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's > > dreaming: > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf > > > > Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I > > succumb to > > death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice > > which is > > no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's > > stricture, of > > death's interface, of my collapse of death: > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe > > > > Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. > > Here is > > a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: > > http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl > > > > It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's > > > > annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is > > a > > nonexistent configuration of death's silence: > > http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini > > > > It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, > > no drum, no > > whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's > > grip, death's > > claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my > > bone: > > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > > > It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. > > Here is the > > nonexistent missive: > > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 07:55:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: <20070709.005924.452.1.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit notes from underground--dostoyevsky begins his character's rant this way. On 7/8/07 11:53 PM, "steve d. dalachinsky" wrote: > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > writes: >> death's >> >> >> I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I >> harbor >> death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg >> >> That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a >> motion >> _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of >> death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg >> >> That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of >> all. >> Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation >> of the >> paradoxes of mathematics: >> http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt >> >> That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours >> data-base and >> protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and >> universe: >> http://www.asondheim.org/index.html >> >> Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I >> dream >> death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's >> dreaming: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf >> >> Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I >> succumb to >> death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice >> which is >> no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's >> stricture, of >> death's interface, of my collapse of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe >> >> Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. >> Here is >> a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: >> http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl >> >> It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's >> >> annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is >> a >> nonexistent configuration of death's silence: >> http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini >> >> It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, >> no drum, no >> whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's >> grip, death's >> claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my >> bone: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. >> Here is the >> nonexistent missive: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:13:29 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicky Melville Subject: Re: death's Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? the underground man in Notes from Underground...? _________________________________________________________________ Watch all 9 Live Earth concerts live on MSN. http://liveearth.uk.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 05:15:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dillon Westbrook Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: <20070709.005924.452.1.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Dostoevsky, Notes From the Underground On Jul 8, 2007, at 8:53 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > writes: >> death's >> >> >> I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I >> harbor >> death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg >> >> That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a >> motion >> _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of >> death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg >> >> That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of >> all. >> Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation >> of the >> paradoxes of mathematics: >> http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt >> >> That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours >> data-base and >> protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and >> universe: >> http://www.asondheim.org/index.html >> >> Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I >> dream >> death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's >> dreaming: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf >> >> Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I >> succumb to >> death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice >> which is >> no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's >> stricture, of >> death's interface, of my collapse of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe >> >> Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. >> Here is >> a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: >> http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl >> >> It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's >> >> annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is >> a >> nonexistent configuration of death's silence: >> http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini >> >> It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, >> no drum, no >> whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's >> grip, death's >> claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my >> bone: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. >> Here is the >> nonexistent missive: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:24:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: <20070709.005924.452.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Steve, "I am a sick man I am a spiteful man" is the beginning of Dosteyevsky's Notes From the Underground. The rest is pure Alan. Ciao, Murat On 7/8/07, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > writes: > > death's > > > > > > I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I > > harbor > > death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: > > http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg > > > > That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a > > motion > > _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of > > death: > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg > > > > That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of > > all. > > Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation > > of the > > paradoxes of mathematics: > > http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt > > > > That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours > > data-base and > > protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and > > universe: > > http://www.asondheim.org/index.html > > > > Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I > > dream > > death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's > > dreaming: > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf > > > > Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I > > succumb to > > death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice > > which is > > no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's > > stricture, of > > death's interface, of my collapse of death: > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe > > > > Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. > > Here is > > a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: > > http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl > > > > It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's > > > > annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is > > a > > nonexistent configuration of death's silence: > > http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini > > > > It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, > > no drum, no > > whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's > > grip, death's > > claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my > > bone: > > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > > > It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. > > Here is the > > nonexistent missive: > > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:26:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larissa Shmailo Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: <20070709.005924.452.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dostoevsky, Notes from the Underground Part I ("I am a sick man, I am a spiteful man, I believe my liver is diseased...") ?Larissa Shmailo http://www.myspace.com/thenonetworld larissashmailo.blogspot.com -----Original Message----- From: steve d. dalachinsky To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 11:53 pm Subject: Re: death's i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim writes: > death's > > > I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I > harbor > death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg > > That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a > motion > _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of > death: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg > > That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of > all. > Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation > of the > paradoxes of mathematics: > http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt > > That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours > data-base and > protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and > universe: > http://www.asondheim.org/index.html > > Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I > dream > death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's > dreaming: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf > > Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I > succumb to > death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice > which is > no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's > stricture, of > death's interface, of my collapse of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe > > Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. > Here is > a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: > http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl > > It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's > > annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is > a > nonexistent configuration of death's silence: > http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini > > It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, > no drum, no > whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's > grip, death's > claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my > bone: > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. > Here is the > nonexistent missive: > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 00:43:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ccc tree crte on c rt e eeet te r e c Onn Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:06:11 -0500 David-Baptiste Chirot writes: > Note: I apologize my letters come out so jammed, so concretely packed > as it were--hotmail changed and on some lists they come out fine and > some not. Maybe i should try subscribing via different mail > server.Dear Jim:Many thanks for your letter and thought provoking > ideas and questions--- Concrete of course is foundational--and > one of the interesting things about that is how easily and > relatively quickly concrete actually cracks, disintegrates, wears > down for a "foundational" material. Think of potholes, leaky > basements, cracked and fragmenting sidewalks . . . one of the > pleasures of the concrete in the world for me is always just just > this--the very cracking, falling apart, imminent collapse, urban > decay, all those crumbling concrete buildings of the former Soviet > Bloc, American Projects, Italian Fascist housing and train > stations--concrete structures the world over which are rapidly > becoming the ruins of failed Utopias which seem dimmer today than > visions of Atlantis to the hundreds of millions living in --or in > the shadows of--their tottering structures and proliferating dusts > and debris. If you think about it, the closest thing to an actual > physical concrete as foundational is the Roman concrete--after > all--their roads, bridges, aqueducts, coliseums, theaters--there are > a very great many still in use today and it seems that footage of > disasters in Europe is always showing how the new "indestructible" > materials have been destroyed, while the Roman structures remain > standing and functioning. Not only that--as we write here now you > and i, we are using the Roman alphabet, whether we make concrete > poems or pure unadulterated gibberish or statements of fact drawn > from Sabermetrics regarding Tony Gwynn's career on base percentage > (OBP) after the seventh inning in night games in San Diego (home) and > away. The place you describe in Dallas--i have lived in a > number of in various versions--in the usa and in paris--and in > Boston there were a couple such places that were strictly "shooting > galleries"--heroin addicts only- the foundation walls alone were > concrete--masses of cracks--leakge and botchy stains on the grey--it > was damp so the dust stayed pretty much on the floor--there were the > corpses of mattresses scattered about with living dead humans lying > on them--and theonly water to use for the shooting up was from rusty > piepes--the sort of place where it is the eternal now--dictated by > the heoin-run metabolism--no past, no future--no caves--no > apocalypse--no "post" anything--and no "past--we used to call it the > "non-zone" a friend and i--aka the "nod-zone"--and the spectral > shoddy rusting remnants of a former Piranesian interior registered > as neither interesting or uninteresting on the "non-scale" of > "non-emotions"--It is only later, as Burroughs notes also--that one > is able to descibe or analyze any of these thousands of > "non-experiences" as actual happenings with materials of interest > and use in making things out of the "non-ness". To bring back from > the world of the living-dead. (Some of my published stories > have a few places similar toi these in them and working on a series > whcih all take place in and around one massive interior such as you > describe--except not cave-like--being in Boston--more like a > collapsed and caving in interior of the old Constitution (is that > the right name)--the old battleship in Boston Harbour--imagine that > ruined in a battle--and blown up a few stories high--and in > winter!!!--) The physical sense of concrete--as opposed to > abstraction--is very true--yet what is strange about much lnguage in > concrete poetry and of course the so -called "material" word in > Language poetry--is that they quickly become quite abstract--they > begin to refer more and more to an idea of a pure language than to > the foundation of the dirt and blood and junk of human and other > existences among things. A concrete poem begins to refer only to > itself and in doing so becomes not a foundation, but an epitome. It > becomes purer and purer and its functions more and more abstractly > functional. That it is, it becomes a demonstration-machine (WCW's > "a poem is a machine made of words"--often now of one word)--of ways > the functions of a letter, word, a bit of grammer or syntax, can be > "played" with/on. This isn't so much "foundational " as > 'elemental" n the sense of partilces, elements, which go into the > creation of a structure, a composition. "It is not the elements > which are new, but the order of their arrangement" says Pascal. To > me, concrete poetry is actually much more related to some aspects of > abstract art and also to the early days of the use of tape recorders > in the creation of sound poetry. (Henri Chopin and Bob Cobbing > among many others have written some veryeloquent essays on this > period of development in the machine-use of the human voice in a > "concrete" manner which at the same time is abstract--that is, > abstracted from the actual voice and, as an element in recorded time > on seperate tapes, can be remixed and so like Pascal's elements > "arranged" in new orders of astonishing range and effect. The > mult-or Intermedia (Dick Higgins) aspects of concrete are in this > abstraction into elements--the elements in the differing > media--sound, film, video, sculpture, words, etc-- broken down to > their elements in terms of the most basic--letters for example as in > Lettrisme--and into basic elements of syntax, grammer--the > sound/visual and space/time elemental components. But is this in > itself "foundational"? It depends on one's sense of where the > foundations are--if they end here--then they are. Yet if they do > not--tthey then extend into the "actual concrete" of the physically > existing environment. Bob Cobbing, who began in the 1940's with > visual scores which used no lexical signs--worked through the sense > of scores in concrete sound poetry and arrived at the voice only > expressing whatever literally "came to hand". To me this is the > extension of the concrete to the "foundational" of human voice and > of as Chung Tzu puts it "Look under your feet!"--that is, the > foundation of what one literally is standing on. That > is how I came quite some long time ago to find the way of working > with found materials from the streets and then even more directly > on/with found materials in the streets. RubBeings and the clay > impression spray paitings and many other equally simple techniques > and media--about at the level of a five year old child--my youngest > son is five and easily i would say ahead of me--in so many > ways--with these one works directly in contact and with > collaboration with the materials themselves--about as 'concrete' as > one can get. In this work what one is often really detailing, as > Cocteau said of the cinema, is "death at work"--decay, > deComposition, the falling apart of the foundational as it becomes > something other--and paradoxically is simulateneously a foundational > elment in one's work--there is what i call an "anarkeyological" > energy at the core of this chnage which is the basis of art > according to Basho--the anarchical shiftings and deCompostions and > layerings and collapses of strata--"the most beaitufl world is a > heap of rubble tossed down in confusion (or: at random, depending on > the transaltion)--Heraclitus. I have to leave this moment > unfortunately or wd try to add a few thoughts--to see some examples > of my work and that of many others working in all sorts of media--my > blogspot ishttp://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.comlater tonight and > tomorrow morning will be two more entries--one is re contemporary > collage and historcial examples--and the other re photography an > some aspects of visual poetry--and then more on House Press, and cy > Bulletins (Sean Bonney and Frances Kruk and Sophie Robinson esp) and > many other things--recent things have included some joe brainard and > bp Nichol courtesy of jw curry--etc > Date: Sun, 8 > Jul 2007 03:10:33 -0700> From: jim@VISPO.COM> Subject: Re: 13 by > Marko Niemi> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > > one of my > favorite encounters with the "concrete" has been the> > subtitle for > an outift named Sorci iN the MilwauKee area that> > provides > dumpsters and moving equipment for smaller> > home-oriented > construction and removal--I encounter these fairly> > often of late > in workings on rubBEings, Intermedia & Clay> > Impression Spray > Paintings--they always bring some good humor to> > the course of > events--especially when one is inside one of the> > dumpsters and > thinking of these various forms> > Erm, what are you doing in these > dumpsters, David? I take it they've got> home-oriented > construction/removal stuff in them, and you're doing> "rubBEings, > intermedia and clay impression spray paintings", but I'm not> sure > what sort of work that is.> > When I visited Dallas, we did a media > art gig (on nuclear annihilation) in a> concrete cave. In the bowels > of what used to be a big concrete warehouse.> The space was > cavernous, dark, and with extrorinarily high ceilings. Some of> the > walls had been destroyed with sledgehammers, and the destroyed > parts> opened into a yet deeper, near bottomless pit that almost > conversed with you> when you spoke into it, so pronounced were the > echoes. Visiting Dallas, I'd> expected to meet Nick, but I hadn't > expected to end up in the pit. There was> enough concrete dust to > kill a tubercular novelist. The textures of the> destroyed portions > of the wall reminded me of a cave. It was like a> post-apocalyptic > bunker. In any case, it was just so concrete. So urban. So> empty. > So evocative, nonetheless. The urban cave is concrete. Harkening > not> to a prehistoric past but a post-apocalyptic future.> > It's > interesting that 'concrete' is often used as the 'opposite' of> > 'abstract'. As though there could be nothing less abstract than > concrete.> All abstraction has been limed away (the reverse of the > subliming process> you speak of?). The utter base reality. Utter. > Totally without the slightest> hint of even the dimmest glimmer of > mentality. The weight of the physical> world. But wait. Concrete > dumb and the true exemplar of the insensate> fundament? It is made > by people, subject to various chemical processes.> Perhaps, then, > concrete as 'foundational'. Concrete is one of the> fundamental > building materials and the foundations of buildings are often> made > of concrete. The concrete mind, the mind of the child. That is > thought> to deal in particulars, not so much in abstraction. Or at > least the> materials in which it deals are more fundamental. The > materials. The> fundamentals. The fundament.> > > --beneath the > logo> > Sorci it reads RUBBISH--METAL--CONCRETE> > Cool.> > > there > has also been> > Concrete Cinema, Musique Concret--the Concrete has > always moved> > in many directions among many Intermedia--CONCRETE > JUNGLE for> > example!!!> > Ehe, concrete jungle and musique > concrete, yes.> > > "Shoes of Concrete"!!!!--a traditional form of > corpse> > disposal--"you gotta head like concrete"--from rubbish to > metal> > to concrete--a form of the process known as > "subliming"---among> > alchemical wastelands and chemical pitfalls . > . . from erosion> > and corrosion is arisen the vision--IF YOU > CONCRETE PLEASE BE> > DISCRETE> > What's this?> > ja> > http://vispo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > See what you’re getting into…before you go there. > http://newlivehotmail.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:57:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Woody Allen in _Annie Hall_ and Martin Amis in every novel he wrote but especially _London Fields_ ...cf. the theory of increasing humiliation. Quoting Nicky Melville : > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > the underground man in Notes from Underground...? > > _________________________________________________________________ > Watch all 9 Live Earth concerts live on MSN. http://liveearth.uk.msn.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:04:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <001101c7c22d$760b5700$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit bill bissett is a beat poet? On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", > inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... > > http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 > > > Gerald S. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:12:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Baldwin Subject: UbuRadio! Comments: To: leanmp@googlegroups.com, "Humanist Discussion Group (by way of Willard McCarty )" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=__PartDDFA0423.2__=" --=__PartDDFA0423.2__= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi, we've re-done our UbuRadio stream using ShoutCast. UbuRadio streams = audio selected from the archives of UbuWeb. Currently we're streaming a = few thousands selections and we'll add more soon. You can listen to Ubu = 24/7 on your favorite media player. We had previously tried with QuickTime = rather than ShoutCast, but had numerous problems. We think this version = will be much more successful. Please give it a listen. I'm sending this announcement to a limited group = to test it out before we annouce more widely. Apologies for any cross-posti= ng! While there may be some re-buffering due to net traffic and/or connection, = please let me know if it seems excessive. Send any other comments as well. = Thanks! Here's the url: http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/projects/ubu_radio or the = url for the .pls file (the script that launches the stream) is http://peace= maker.stat.wvu.edu:8000/listen.pls=20 Sandy Baldwin West Virginia University Assistant Professor of English Director of the Center for Literary Computing www.clc.wvu.edu=20 www.as.wvu.edu/~sbaldwin=20 "... it is implicit that to speak is to exist absolutely for the other." = Fanon "The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights." Chapman --=__PartDDFA0423.2__= Content-Type: text/plain; name="Charles Baldwin1.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Charles Baldwin1.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Baldwin, Charles TEL;WORK:(304) 293-3107 x33452 ORG:;ECAS-English TEL;PREF;FAX:(304) 293-5380 EMAIL;WORK;PREF:Charles.Baldwin@mail.wvu.edu N:Baldwin;Charles TITLE:Assistant Professor END:VCARD BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 X-GWTYPE:USER FN:Baldwin, Charles TEL;WORK:(304) 293-3107 x33452 ORG:;ECAS-English TEL;PREF;FAX:(304) 293-5380 EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:Charles.Baldwin@mail.wvu.edu N:Baldwin;Charles TITLE:Assistant Professor END:VCARD --=__PartDDFA0423.2__=-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:02:41 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Ashbery query In-Reply-To: <001101c7c22d$760b5700$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As I don't have my copy of handy...can someone remind me of the exact line from "Three Poems" about putting everything in or leaving everything out?--I think it's the first line of the book. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:18:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: <20070709.005924.452.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Dostoevsky, Notes from Underground - On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > writes: >> death's >> >> >> I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I >> harbor >> death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg >> >> That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a >> motion >> _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of >> death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg >> >> That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of >> all. >> Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation >> of the >> paradoxes of mathematics: >> http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt >> >> That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours >> data-base and >> protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and >> universe: >> http://www.asondheim.org/index.html >> >> Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I >> dream >> death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's >> dreaming: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf >> >> Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I >> succumb to >> death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice >> which is >> no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's >> stricture, of >> death's interface, of my collapse of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe >> >> Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. >> Here is >> a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: >> http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl >> >> It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's >> >> annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is >> a >> nonexistent configuration of death's silence: >> http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini >> >> It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, >> no drum, no >> whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's >> grip, death's >> claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my >> bone: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. >> Here is the >> nonexistent missive: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:22:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: some notes on language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Some Notes on Language "The answer is this: war on totality, Let us attest to the unpresentable; let us activate the differends and save the honor of the name." (Jean- Francois Lyotard, The Postmodern Explained.) Watching early silent Shakespearian films on Turner Classic Movies - the linguistic register transforms into (visual) protolanguage; protolanguage can literally trace the visible. the earlier films (1899 - maybe 1908) tend towards special effects constructed as if for the first time; pre- sence is transformed and protolanguage gives way to wonder. Agehananda Bharati writes on 'intentional language' in The Tantric Tradi- tion - this is considered a mistranslation of samdha-bhasa by Alex Wayman in The Buddhist Tantras: Light on Indo-Tibetan Esotericism; he translates the same as 'twilight language' as the 'climactics' between darkness and light. The ambiguity that arises is described by Nagarjuna in his Samdhi- bhasa-jika who gives such examples as "is the ambrosia (amrta) of heaven, to be drunk continuously." "is wind, is food, to be controlled." "One should be convinced, 'these very bones of mine are my ornaments.'" "is inhalation; and one should stop it from its violent acts." "has avikalpa nature; also, while the wind is being inhaled there is no recitation." Wayman states "The twilights symbolized the sensitive points in the temporal flow when spiritual victory was possible. A special vocabulary was created to refer to these critical points and called in the Buddhist Tantras 'twilight language.'" "Nagarjuna's commentary suggests that the Hevajratantra has given the basic list of 'twilight language.' These are expressions for ambiguous yoga states, while 'non-twilight language' refers to states of yoga that are not ambiguous." In English, the phrases themselves are ambiguous and it's not clear whether the ambiguity parallels or is equivalent to the ambiguity in the original. It's not clear where the original lies. The ambiguity in English refuses to resolve and it is this refusal that constructs an alliance with the inert. The inert collapses whereas 'intentional language' retains mind. The collapse is the mirror of the protolanguage of early Shakespearian silent film. Nagarjuna, in his Letter to King Gautamiputra ("The Letter of a Friend") states (in relation to the suffering of gods re: samsara): "Their bodies' complexion becomes ugly, they do not like to sit, their garlands of flowers wither, their clothes become soiled, and sweat appears on their bodies - (all of which) never happened before. Just as on earth the signs of dying foretell man's approaching death, so these five former signs presage the death and transmigration of the gods dwelling in heaven." The summarization of the commentaries states: "As the signs of death come to human beings, so do they come to gods. When the time comes for a god to die, these five signs appear. (1) Though they are usually very beautiful, they lose their great beauty and become very ugly. (2) Though they are ordinarily never bored because of their many pleas- ures, they become bored and do not know what to do. [...]" (Venerable Lozang Jamspal, Venerable Ngawang Samten Chophel, Peter Della Santina, translating/editing; the original commentaries by Jetsun Rendawa Shonnu Lodo, the Venerable Lozang Jinpa and the Venerable Rongton Sheja Kunrig.) Gods are bored, besides themselves. They're wandering, useless, used up, non-intended, not having paid sufficient attention to religious matter. One might say they're neither here nor there, they drain twilight language of the climactic. I'd say they're speechless, that their speech is of no consequence, that they inhabit the silence of the silent film. If speech participates in representation, digital division between that=which-is and that-which=is-not, then the gods move into the analogic inert, just as language becomes nothing whatsoever, and the climactic transforms into that global warming annihilating all life, reincarnation karma-dharma or not. Doesn't rebirth require a certain temperature bandwidth, between the frozen and the plasma? What's happening here? Nothing's happening. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:35:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yesterday, I couldn't stop thinking about Dylan Thomas' poem, And Death Shall Have No Dominion. I probably wouldn't have noticed Alan Sondheim's beautiful poem posted last night, had I not noticed all the prompt replies to the question regarding his quote from Dostoevsky's Notes from Underground. Thinking of the Thomas poem yesterday, although I've memorized most of it, I realized I had forgotten one of the verses, so I listened to it online today, here: http://town.hall.org/Archives/radio/IMS/HarperAudio/020894_harp_ITH.html On 7/8/07 8:30 PM, "Alan Sondheim" wrote: > death's > > > I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I harbor > death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg > > That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a motion > _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg > > That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of all. > Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation of the > paradoxes of mathematics: > http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt > > That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours data-base and > protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and universe: > http://www.asondheim.org/index.html > > Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I dream > death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's dreaming: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf > > Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I succumb to > death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice which is > no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's stricture, of > death's interface, of my collapse of death: > http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe > > Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. Here is > a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: > http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl > > It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's > annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is a > nonexistent configuration of death's silence: > http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini > > It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, no drum, no > whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's grip, > death's > claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my bone: > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. Here is the > nonexistent missive: > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:36:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tom Beckett Subject: WITH MORE TINY BOOKS, POETRY FEEDS THE WORLD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Meritage Press Announcement=20 For more information: MeritagePress@aol.com=20 WITH MORE TINY BOOKS, POETRY FEEDS THE WORLD Meritage Press (MP) is pleased to announce the second title in its series of= Tiny Books that aligns poetry with fair trade and economic development issu= es affecting Third World countries.=20 MP's Tiny Books initially utilize small books (1 3/4" x 1 3/4") made in Guat= emala by artisans paid fair wages, as sourced by Baksheesh, a fair trade ret= ailer. All profits from book sales then will be donated to Heifer Internatio= nal, an organization devoted to reducing world hunger by promoting sustainab= le sources of food and income.=20 We are delighted to announce that MP's second Tiny Book is=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Steps: A Notebook=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 by Tom Beckett=20 Tom Beckett is the author of Unprotected Texts: Selected Poems 1978~2006 (Me= ritage Press, 2006), and the curator of E-X-C-H-A-N-G-E-V-A-L-U-E-S: The Fir= st XI Interviews (Otoliths, 2007). From 1980-1990, he was the editor/publish= er of the now legendary critical journal, The Difficulties. Steps: A Noteboo= k is Tom Beckett's first hay(na)ku poetry collection. The hay(na)ku is also=20= a form that lends itself to minimalism.=20 MP's Tiny Book series was inaugurated by=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 all alone again=20 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 by Dan Waber=20 Dan Waber is a visual poet, concrete poet, sound poet, performance poet, pub= lisher, editor, playwright and multimedia artist whose work has appeared in=20= all sorts of delicious places, from digital to print, from stage to classroo= m, from mailboxes to puppet theaters. He is currently working on "and everyw= here in between". He makes his online home at logolalia.com. Meritage Press=20= tapped Mr. Waber to inaugurate the series partly for his work in minimalist=20= poetry.=20 With Tiny Books, MP also offers a new DIY, or Do-It-Yourself Model of publis= hing. You've heard of POD or print-on-demand? Well, these books' print runs=20= will be based on HOD or Handwritten-on-Demand. MP's publisher, Eileen Tabios= , will handwrite all texts into the Tiny Books' pages and books will be rele= ased to meet demand for as long as MP is able to source tiny books -- or unt= il the publisher gets arthritis.=20 This project reflects Meritage Press' belief that "Poetry feeds the world" i= n non-metaphorical ways. The Tiny Books create demand for fair trade workers= ' products while also sourcing donations for easing poverty in poorer areas=20= of the world.=20 Each Tiny Book will cost $10 plus $1.00 shipping/handling. To purchase the T= iny Books and donate to Heifer International, send a check for $11.00 per bo= ok, made out to "Meritage Press" to=20 Eileen Tabios=20 Meritage Press=20 256 North Fork Crystal Springs Rd.=20 St. Helena, CA 94574 ***** As of JUly 8, 2007, we have garnered enough book sales to donate funds suffi= cient to give three-and-a-half flocks of chicks.=C2=A0 Nota bene re chickens= :=20 "CHICKENS are a real value. Starting at six months, they can lay up to 200 e= ggs a year =E2=80=94 a reliable source of protein for children who otherwise= subsist mostly on starches. Extra eggs can be sold to pay for school, cloth= es and medicine. And in the vegetable garden, chickens peck at bugs and weed= s, scratch up the soil and enrich it with droppings." Isn't that interesting about chickens?!=C2=A0 But we're not that far from "t= he most giving animal around": -- the goat!=C2=A0 Note bene re goats: "GOATS: Did you know that more children around the world get their protein f= rom goat's milk? That's because goats thrive in extreme climates where other= livestock can't, and eat grasses and leaves that cause other animals to tur= n up their noses (or snouts)!=C2=A0 And if it's a Heifer goat, one strugglin= g family can receive up to a gallon of milk from it every single day. That's= more than enough milk not only to drink, but to use to make cheese, butter=20= or yogurt, plus to sell whatever's left and buy much-needed clothes, school=20= supplies and medicine.=C2=A0 Although they appear tough and gruff, goats are= actually so gentle that it's usually the family's children who regularly ca= re for them. In this way, goats really do become "nannies;" teaching their y= oung caregivers all kinds of skills while building their self-esteem. This y= ear, give the gift that keeps giving, over and over again. It's the best pre= sent you could give to someone who gives so much to you." POETRY -- the Gift that keeps on Giving...pls consider doing so through the=20= BIG GIFT of a Tiny Book! ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from= AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:55:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Poetry Reading in Manhattan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 ICAgICAgICAgUmVhZGluZ3Mgb2YgbmV3IHBvZW1zIGJ5Og0KDQoJIA0KDQoJTGF1cmEgQm9zcw0K DQoJQWxhbiBIb2xkZXINCg0KCUJ1cnQgS2ltbWVsbWFuDQoNCgkgDQoNCglXaGVuOiANCg0KCUp1 bHkgMjZ0aCBhdCA3IFBNDQoNCgkgDQoNCglXaGVyZTogDQoNCglNb3JuaW5nc2lkZSBCb29rc2hv cA0KDQoJMjkxNSBCcm9hZHdheSAob2ZmIDExNHRoIFN0LikNCg0KCU5ldyBZb3JrIENpdHkNCg0K CTIxMi4yMjIuMzM1MA0KDQoJaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tb3JuaW5nc2lkZWJvb2tzaG9wLmNvbS8NCg0K CSANCg0KCUZyZWUgYWRtaXNzaW9uLg0KDQoJIA0KDQoJSG9waW5nIHlvdSBjYW4gbWFrZSBpdCEN Cg0K ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:49:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Ashbery query In-Reply-To: <422787.47579.qm@web86013.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "I thought that if I could put it all down, that would be one way. And = next the thought came to me that to leave all out would be another, and = truer, way. / / clean washed sea / The flowers were." -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] = On Behalf Of Barry Schwabsky Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 10:03 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Ashbery query As I don't have my copy of handy...can someone remind me of the exact = line from "Three Poems" about putting everything in or leaving everything = out?--I think it's the first line of the book. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:40:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit For what it's worth, I knew him back in the day. But I never did understand what makes "beat" & don't like the term myself. But does anyone know how to reach Bill Bissett now? I'd like to be back in touch. Please backchannel. Thanks. Diane di Prima > From: mIEKAL aND > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:04:30 -0500 > To: > Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... > > bill bissett is a beat poet? > > On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > >> Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", >> inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... >> >> http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 >> >> >> Gerald S. >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:39:17 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed (I guess this is what it takes to get people to pay attention to a bit of literary history...) Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says KEY WEST, Florida (AP) -- City officials have sided with Ernest Hemingway's former home and its celebrated six-toed felines in its cat fight with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/09/hemingway.cats.ap/index.html Patches, a descendant of Ernest Hemingway's six-toed cats, is on the prowl in Key West, Florida. The Key West City Commission exempted the home from a city law prohibiting more than four domestic animals per household. About 50 cats live there. The house has been locked in a dispute with the USDA, which claims the museum is an "exhibitor" of cats and needs a special license, a claim the home disputes. The new ordinance reads in part, "The cats reside on the property just as the cats did in the time of Hemingway himself. They are not on exhibition in the manner of circus animals. ... The City Commission finds that family of polydactyl Hemingway cats are indeed animals of historic, social and tourism significance." It also states that the cats are "an integral part of the history and ambiance of the Hemingway House." A USDA spokesman did not return messages left late Sunday. The cats are descendants of a six-toed cat given as a gift to the writer in 1935. All carry the gene for six toes, though not all display the trait. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:30:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! In-Reply-To: <180259d6b83fb14167aae78f528f587a@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable if he doesn't exist, can I have a crack at editing his collected works?=20 I fly with wax I wax my fly fly little wax fly through marmorious false port able doc ument files -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of George Bowering Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 17:08 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: HOLY CRAP! Joseph Ceravolo's FITS OF DAWN as a PDF!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is an attempt at a ruse, isn't it? There isn't really a poet named Ceravolo, is there? Cera is Spanish for wax. And volo is kind of Italian/Spanish for I fly. So we have a reference to Icarus, a poet figure. gb On Jul 6, 2007, at 10:48 AM, CA Conrad wrote: > There are many rumors that Ceravolo's wife is the problem. I've heard > this > from several people. But I've also heard marvelous stories about her=20 > from > my friend John Coletti who has been to see her, and she gave him=20 > copies of > books, beautiful, rare gifts, and stories, and how nice is that? Very > nice! > > What would it take? > > What plot to loosen the valve on all that Love? > > Has no one any charm left? > > Silly, of course! Much charm to go around, right?!!!! Hm, well,=20 > what's > next? We admit we have charm, we know the road block. How hard can=20 > it be, > right?!!!! > > If only a Ceravolo COLLECTED could impeach Bush! > > If only it could stop bleeding, a COLLECTED compress too for lumps! > > The magic of poems. Put it in my imaginary womb and pluck out a goat=20 > I know > I'm capable of making! My sweet little goat. I Love my little goat. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > George Bowering, Fan of Alex Shibicky ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 13:03:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reuters is not known to flesh out the nuances of syle, just the barcodes of commodity... so, no, picking up on bisset... not in the cards better, simply, that The Chemicals did... > bill bissett is a beat poet? > > On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > >> Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", >> inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... >> >> http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 >> >> >> Gerald S. >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 11:50:36 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: THROW THE AMISH IN JAIL! poets & artists against cruelty to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline details at http://CAConradEVENTS.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:41:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: some notes on language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/9/07, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > Some Notes on Language > > > "The answer is this: war on totality, Let us attest to the unpresentable; > let us activate the differends and save the honor of the name." (Jean- > Francois Lyotard, The Postmodern Explained.) > > Watching early silent Shakespearian films on Turner Classic Movies - the > linguistic register transforms into (visual) protolanguage; protolanguage > can literally trace the visible. the earlier films (1899 - maybe 1908) > tend towards special effects constructed as if for the first time; pre- > sence is transformed and protolanguage gives way to wonder. Alan, "Traces" not only the "visible," but also the "invisible." That's what I have been trying to say for years, including in The Peripheral Space of Photography. The wonder of a new language, which also implies the death of the old. What you call protolanguage (the inert) is also what is beyond words being the only language ("that=which-is and that-which=is-not"). No surprise, for the last year, I was trying to understand your distinction between digital and analalogical. Analogical is death, isn't it, death, at least, of a given system (onelanguage game) transcending to other media, to other senses (from ear to eye to non eye/mind's eye, to eda). When Dostoyesky is saying "I am a sick man, I am a spiteful man, my liver is diseased," isn't he announcing the birth of a new system, based on a new ethos (of failure, of death) which of course has withing it the death of the old? Agehananda Bharati writes on 'intentional language' in The Tantric Tradi- > tion - this is considered a mistranslation of samdha-bhasa by Alex Wayman > in The Buddhist Tantras: Light on Indo-Tibetan Esotericism; he translates > the same as 'twilight language' as the 'climactics' between darkness and > light. The ambiguity that arises is described by Nagarjuna in his Samdhi- > bhasa-jika who gives such examples as "is the ambrosia (amrta) of heaven, > to be drunk continuously." "is wind, is food, to be controlled." "One > should be convinced, 'these very bones of mine are my ornaments.'" "is > inhalation; and one should stop it from its violent acts." "has avikalpa > nature; also, while the wind is being inhaled there is no recitation." > > Wayman states "The twilights symbolized the sensitive points in the > temporal flow when spiritual victory was possible. A special vocabulary > was created to refer to these critical points and called in the Buddhist > Tantras 'twilight language.'" "Nagarjuna's commentary suggests that the > Hevajratantra has given the basic list of 'twilight language.' These are > expressions for ambiguous yoga states, while 'non-twilight language' > refers to states of yoga that are not ambiguous." In English, the phrases > themselves are ambiguous and it's not clear whether the ambiguity > parallels or is equivalent to the ambiguity in the original. It's not > clear where the original lies. The ambiguity in English refuses to resolve > and it is this refusal that constructs an alliance with the inert. The refusal to escape this ambiguity, but rather to embrace this distance, is what true translation is. The language of the inert = Melville (his "inert" narrative, "I would prefer not to") = silence of the audible through seeing (silent movies) = seeing of the invisible (Bresson, peripheral space) = a sound or movement of the mind ("heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard sweeter") = eda ("play on...). Ciao, Murat The > inert collapses whereas 'intentional language' retains mind. The collapse > is the mirror of the protolanguage of early Shakespearian silent film. > > Nagarjuna, in his Letter to King Gautamiputra ("The Letter of a Friend") > states (in relation to the suffering of gods re: samsara): > > "Their bodies' complexion becomes ugly, they do not like to sit, their > garlands of flowers wither, their clothes become soiled, and sweat appears > on their bodies - (all of which) never happened before. Just as on earth > the signs of dying foretell man's approaching death, so these five former > signs presage the death and transmigration of the gods dwelling in > heaven." > > The summarization of the commentaries states: > > "As the signs of death come to human beings, so do they come to gods. When > the time comes for a god to die, these five signs appear. > (1) Though they are usually very beautiful, they lose their great beauty > and become very ugly. > (2) Though they are ordinarily never bored because of their many pleas- > ures, they become bored and do not know what to do. [...]" > > (Venerable Lozang Jamspal, Venerable Ngawang Samten Chophel, Peter Della > Santina, translating/editing; the original commentaries by Jetsun Rendawa > Shonnu Lodo, the Venerable Lozang Jinpa and the Venerable Rongton Sheja > Kunrig.) > > Gods are bored, besides themselves. They're wandering, useless, used up, > non-intended, not having paid sufficient attention to religious matter. > One might say they're neither here nor there, they drain twilight language > of the climactic. I'd say they're speechless, that their speech is of no > consequence, that they inhabit the silence of the silent film. If speech > participates in representation, digital division between that=which-is and > that-which=is-not, then the gods move into the analogic inert, just as > language becomes nothing whatsoever, and the climactic transforms into > that global warming annihilating all life, reincarnation karma-dharma or > not. Doesn't rebirth require a certain temperature bandwidth, between the > frozen and the plasma? What's happening here? Nothing's happening. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:20:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: Ashbery query In-Reply-To: <422787.47579.qm@web86013.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe a good place to start could be the Ashbery Resource Center at http://www.flowchartfoundation.org/ -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Barry Schwabsky Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:03 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Ashbery query As I don't have my copy of handy...can someone remind me of the exact line from "Three Poems" about putting everything in or leaving everything out?--I think it's the first line of the book. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:36:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: some notes on language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Sondheim Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:23 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: some notes on language Agehananda Bharati writes on 'intentional language' in The Tantric Tradi- tion - this is considered a mistranslation of samdha-bhasa by Alex Wayman in The Buddhist Tantras: Light on Indo-Tibetan Esotericism; he translates the same as 'twilight language' as the 'climactics' between darkness and light. The ambiguity that arises is described by Nagarjuna in his Samdhi- bhasa-jika who gives such examples as "is the ambrosia (amrta) of heaven, to be drunk continuously." "is wind, is food, to be controlled." "One should be convinced, 'these very bones of mine are my ornaments.'" "is inhalation; and one should stop it from its violent acts." "has avikalpa nature; also, while the wind is being inhaled there is no recitation." ========================> What the west calls "twilight language", has been mispronounced as "samdha-bhasa". It should be spelled "sandhyabhasa". Here is a wikipedia link on the Charyapadas (pronounced Char-Ja-paw-dough) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charyapada The facts on this page, as far as I can tell, are correct. The word "sandhya" in Bengali, Hindi and/or most east Indian languages means "evening", "bhasa" is language. Thanks Aryanil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:53:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: ars poetica update Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ars poetica project continues defy entropy at: http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/ Poems appeared last week by: Dean Blehert. Poems will appear this week by: Dean Blehert, James Cummins, Chris Murray, and Ernie Wormwood. A new poem about poetry every day, by invitation only (but thanks for asking). Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:56:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: Literary Buffalo E-Newsletter 7.09.07-7.15.07 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LITERARY BUFFALO 7.09.07-7.15.07 EVENTS 7.11.07 JUST BUFFALO OPEN READING Featured: Josh Smith Carnegie Art Center Wednesday, July 11, 7 p.m 10 slots for open readers 7.12.07 RUST BELT BOOKS Canadian sound poet Max Middle along with Buffluxus' Don Metz & Mike Basinski Thursday, July 12, 7 p.m. Rust Belt Books, 202 Allen St. 7.13.07 TALKING LEAVES...BOOKS Buffalo native Wendy Lichtman Reading and signing for her fifth children's book: Do the Math: Secrets, Lies, and Algebra Friday, July 13, 5:30 p.m. Talking Leaves...Books, 3158 Main St. 7.15.07 JUST BUFFALO OPEN READING Featured: Jennifer Campbell & Perry Nicholas Rust Belt Books Sunday, July 15, 7 p.m. 10 slots for open readers JUST BUFFALO WRITER'S CRITIQUE GROUP =21=21=21 WRITER CRITIQUE GROUP IS ON SUMMER HIATUS. WE'LL RETURN IN SEPTEM= BER =21=21=21 Members of Just Buffalo are welcome to attend a free, bi-monthly writer cri= tique group in CEPA's Flux Gallery on the first floor of the historic Marke= t Arcade Building across the street from Shea's. Group meets 1st and 3rd We= dnesday at 7 p.m. Call Just Buffalo for details. WESTERN NEW YORK ROMANCE WRITERS group meets the third Wednesday of every m= onth at St. Joseph Hospital community room at 11a.m. Address: 2605 Harlem R= oad, Cheektowaga, NY 14225. For details go to www.wnyrw.org. JOIN JUST BUFFALO ONLINE=21=21=21 If you would like to join Just Buffalo, or simply make a massive personal d= onation, you can do so online using your credit card. We have recently add= ed the ability to join online by paying with a credit card through PayPal. = Simply click on the membership level at which you would like to join, log = in (or create a PayPal account using your Visa/Amex/Mastercard/Discover), a= nd voil=E1, you will find yourself in literary heaven. For more info, or t= o join now, go to our website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/membership/index.shtml UNSUBSCRIBE If you would like to unsubscribe from this list, just say so and you will b= e immediately removed. _______________________________ Michael Kelleher Artistic Director Just Buffalo Literary Center Market Arcade 617 Main St., Ste. 202A Buffalo, NY 14203 716.832.5400 716.270.0184 (fax) www.justbuffalo.org mjk=40justbuffalo.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wil Hallgren Subject: Re: Ashbery query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii I thought that if I could put it all down, that would be one way. And next the thought came to me that to leave all out would be another, and truer, way. ----- Original Message ---- From: Barry Schwabsky To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Monday, July 9, 2007 11:02:41 AM Subject: Ashbery query As I don't have my copy of handy...can someone remind me of the exact line from "Three Poems" about putting everything in or leaving everything out?--I think it's the first line of the book. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 13:35:10 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Stempleman Subject: Re: Ashbery query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "I thought that if I could put it all down, that would be/one way. And next= the throught came to me that to leave/all out would be another, and truer,= way." > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:02:41 +0100> From: b.schwabsky@BTOPENWORLD.COM> = Subject: Ashbery query> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > As I don't have= my copy of handy...can someone remind me of the exact line from "Three Poe= ms" about putting everything in or leaving everything out?--I think it's th= e first line of the book. _________________________________________________________________ Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one pla= ce! Find it! http://maps.live.com/?wip=3D69&FORM=3DMGAC01= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 12:59:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: death's In-Reply-To: <20070709.005924.452.1.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed the unnamed narrator of notes from underground On Sun, 8 Jul 2007, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > writes: >> death's >> >> >> I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. I >> harbor >> death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg >> >> That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has a >> motion >> _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion of >> death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg >> >> That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the refutation of >> all. >> Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent refutation >> of the >> paradoxes of mathematics: >> http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt >> >> That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours >> data-base and >> protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and >> universe: >> http://www.asondheim.org/index.html >> >> Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. I >> dream >> death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's >> dreaming: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf >> >> Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I >> succumb to >> death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a choice >> which is >> no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's >> stricture, of >> death's interface, of my collapse of death: >> http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe >> >> Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold me. >> Here is >> a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: >> http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl >> >> It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will death's >> >> annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here is >> a >> nonexistent configuration of death's silence: >> http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini >> >> It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no bell, >> no drum, no >> whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of death's >> grip, death's >> claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, my >> bone: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a missive. >> Here is the >> nonexistent missive: >> http://www.asondheim.org/placespace >> >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:02:10 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Ricejunk2@frontiernet.net" Subject: Arts Day in the Country-- to Include Poets & Writers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable INVITATION TO POETS/ WRITERS AND THOSE WHO SHARE THE CREATIVE SPIRIT =20 (EVEN IF TO ENJOY THE CREATIONS OF OTHERS)... The Arts Council for Wyoming County's "Arts Day in the Country" is July 14th Beaver Meadow Audubon Center, Welch Rd., North Java, 1-6pm; musical event to follow, from 6-8pm. Artists, poets, photographers, musicians are invited to practice their =20 art in one of Wyoming County's natural treasures. Visitors are invited to witness artists at work while enjoying the =20 natural surroundings. Artists may set up to paint, etc. Musicians may play. Poets/authors may read. * Members of Wyoming Writes writers' group, as well as other =20 groups, are invited to come out and give readings, as well as write or =20 share their ears while others read. Visitors may even read from =20 another's work, i.e. Frost or Thoreau... whatever inspires you! With =20 nature as a backdrop, read as you please! MUSICAL EVENT INFORMATION: * Bazaha-LaLa presents Cajun, Zydeco, Bluegrass and Folk music and =20 invites musicians to join in from 6-8pm at the Main Center's grounds =20 (outside tent performance). Please call the Arts Council for Wyoming County for information: =20 585-237-3517; email to info@artswyco.org if questions, or see the web =20 site: www.artswyco.org T. F. Rice Heralding the Art of Words in Western New York... The Other Herald theotherherald@yahoo.com www.tfrice.etsy.com Hidden Valley Farm, Publisher P. O. Box 172 Perry, NY 14530 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:02:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vernon Frazer Subject: Re: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Only in Florida! I like the cats. They add to the ambience. Vernon http://vernonfrazer.com -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of mIEKAL aND Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 1:39 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says (I guess this is what it takes to get people to pay attention to a bit of literary history...) Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says KEY WEST, Florida (AP) -- City officials have sided with Ernest Hemingway's former home and its celebrated six-toed felines in its cat fight with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/09/hemingway.cats.ap/index.html Patches, a descendant of Ernest Hemingway's six-toed cats, is on the prowl in Key West, Florida. The Key West City Commission exempted the home from a city law prohibiting more than four domestic animals per household. About 50 cats live there. The house has been locked in a dispute with the USDA, which claims the museum is an "exhibitor" of cats and needs a special license, a claim the home disputes. The new ordinance reads in part, "The cats reside on the property just as the cats did in the time of Hemingway himself. They are not on exhibition in the manner of circus animals. ... The City Commission finds that family of polydactyl Hemingway cats are indeed animals of historic, social and tourism significance." It also states that the cats are "an integral part of the history and ambiance of the Hemingway House." A USDA spokesman did not return messages left late Sunday. The cats are descendants of a six-toed cat given as a gift to the writer in 1935. All carry the gene for six toes, though not all display the trait. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 13:43:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: some notes on intention and vaguery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed after sondheim one of the problems with reading ludwig wittgenstein is that he very rarely makes explicit the targets of his investigations. this is bad enough in his early work, and it becomes almost insurmountable in his late period, to the point that one almost needs a knowledge of frege, russell, schopenauer, james, moore, and spengler, as well as a working knowledge of the ideas of the vienna circle to know what he is talking about a lot of the time. this is not to say that what he is talking about is necessarily something not worth knowing, or that one SHOULD have to know about frege et al in order to understand the points he makes. Rather, this is one facet of the difficulty in reading wittgenstein that he wrote for a very small audience with the prior conviction that he probably couldn't make himself understood anyway, and with the further constraint that he didn't want to offer up anything that looked anything like a theory based on his belief that any such theory is doomed to be nonsensical. the question that here arises then is what to make of wittgenstein's treatment of intention and vagueness in Philosophical Investigations and Zettel? The answer is a relatively simple one that must be understood in terms of the movement that wittgenstein prophetically opposed in all of his later work, that is, the Chomskyan school of linguistics and their lynchpin theory of universal grammar. Whether or not such a universal grammar hardwired into human brains wittgenstein would have held as a question for psychologists and neurologists, and not for linguists and philosophers. Rather, it is the duty of philosophers and linguists to look at the forms of life in which language arises and to see how language is used in those areas. His argument here is not specifically directed against anyone, although russell and his chrystaline formal grammars of logic and mathematics, as well as the scientific materialism of the vienna circale are both specifc targets that he no doubt intended to take aim at. Rather, what the intention is here is to direct the attention of his reader via his interlocutor at the usefulness, and indeed, the necessity of vagueness for communication. It is vagueness that allows us to use color words, to use indexical expressions, and to shortcut around all manner of terms that if we necessitated rigorous and thorough definitions for, would be completely unworkable. his statement that "we have got on to slippery ice and are unable to walk. for that we need friction, back to the rough ground" is as succinct a statement as possible outlining the need for vagueness in language in order to allow it to communicate anything at all. further, note that it is vague that the intent here is to challenge such polishers of language, those who would produce idealized, universal grammars, and beneath that, the intent to show how such endeavors are not just doomed to failure and worthless, but that they are actively detrimental to understanding. There is a point at which the vagueness of a sentence must be accepted as an end and that we must stop polishing it for if we do not it will cease to mean what it vaguely means and begin to precisely mean something else entirely, if it is lucky enough to mean anything at all, which is highly unlikely. more to the point, however, is the question of intent and how one intends. the idea of intent is a metaphysically garbled one and very difficult to speak about. wittgenstein instead directs us to think about situations in which we use the word. his suggestion is that those uses are what the word and the behavior means and there is an end to it. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:39:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City presents House Press Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward=20 ---------------------- =20 Boog City presents =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 House Press (Buffalo, Chicago, New York City) =20 This Thurs. July 12, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free =20 ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by House Press cofounder Eric Gelsinger =20 =20 Featuring=20 =20 films from=20 Scott Puccio =20 readings from=20 Tawrin Baker Gelsinger Adam Golaski Matthew Klane =20 music from White Man Much Foolish =20 and a power-point presentation from Damian Weber =20 =20 There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. =20 Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum =20 ------ =20 *House Press http://www.housepress.org/ http://housepress.blogspot.com/ =20 House Press came together in Buffalo in 2002 as poets inside and outside th= e University of Buffalo started daily and nightly collaboration. That year, they began a workshop at 149 Lisbon, a reading series at Spot Coffee, minte= d the first issue of the magazine Drill, and published their first book: a four-man collab/collection. Since then, some members have scattered to Chicago, Brooklyn, San Francisco, Albany, Charlottesville, and St. Louis, while others have held down the fort. Drill has morphed into String of Smal= l Machines (S.F./Chicago), and two other magazines, Spell (Chicago) and Sourc= e Material (Brooklyn), have arisen. Meanwhile, House has published over two dozen books and a half-dozen cds. In addition to poetry and music, they've worked with prose, street art, book art, and film. *Overall Performer Bios* =20 **Tawrin Baker http://housepress.org/authors/baker/baker.html Tawrin Baker is from Buffalo, where he learned to write like he=B9s got no time to lose. He=B9s on his way to Indiana to study the history of science like he=B9s got no time to lose. He=B9s got two chump books coming out soon. =20 =20 **Craig Dempsey Craig Dempsey is a musician/composer who forms up to half of the electronic music group Stars As Eyes. He appears as White Man Much Foolish (WMMF) to interface his knowledge of sound synthesis with his ongoing metaphysical inquiry. One source of inspiration for WMMF is G. I. Gurdjieff=B9s concept of Objective Music, the kind of music that forms a relationship between the snake charmer and the snake. =20 =20 **Eric Gelsinger Eric Gelsinger was born in Buffalo, lives in Greenpoint, and works as a prosodist and trader for a hedge fund in Manhattan. He will be trying Hoote= r poems, which are like children=B9s poems for the children in adults, and contain important lessons and morals and rhymes. He will not take very much of your time. =20 =20 **Adam Golaski http://www.essaysandfictions.com/content.html http://www.new-genre.com/ http://www.flimforum.com/ Adam Golaski=B9s daughter will be born in August. Adam can=B9t wait to tell her he loves her. Adam edits for Flim Forum Press and for New Genre. =B3Woods (Marion)=B2 appears in the current issue of Essays & Fictions. =B3What Water Reveals=B2 will appear in the Tartarus Press horror anthology More Tales from Tartarus. Of all the frozen desserts, lime sherbet remains his favorite. =20 =20 **Matthew Klane Matthew Klane lives and writes in Albany, N.Y. He is co-editor at Flim Foru= m Press (http://flimforum.com/). See: recent work in Plantarchy, word for/word, and string of small machines. Also see: The Meister-Reich Experiments, an evolving hyper-text, at http://housepress.org/. =20 =20 **Scott Puccio=20 Scott=B9s home is Buffalo. He loves making tiny films, but enjoys watching other people=B9s films more. The only people he claims to know are poets. Happiness no longer eludes him. =20 =20 **Damian Weber House Press has printed over 13 books of Damian Weber=B9s poetry, a novel, four albums, and the magazine Source Material: a Journal of Appropriated Text. Damian will be giving a presentation of his newest work, the NYC Subway map. =20 ---- =20 Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 Next event: Thurs. Aug. 2, 2007: Welcome to Boog City Festival Kickoff Event Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:01:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: death's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes dusty's notes opening line On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:57:08 -0400 Chris Chapman writes: > Woody Allen in _Annie Hall_ > and Martin Amis in > every novel he wrote but especially > _London Fields_ > > ...cf. the theory of increasing humiliation. > > Quoting Nicky Melville : > > > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > > > the underground man in Notes from Underground...? > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Watch all 9 Live Earth concerts live on MSN. > http://liveearth.uk.msn.com > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:16:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: death's MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi guys i know who said it it was a quiz based on the below piece by alan On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:24:10 -0400 Murat Nemet-Nejat writes: > Steve, > > "I am a sick man I am a spiteful man" is the beginning of > Dosteyevsky's > Notes From the Underground. The rest is pure Alan. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > On 7/8/07, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > > > On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 20:30:09 -0400 Alan Sondheim > > > writes: > > > death's > > > > > > > > > I am a sick man. I am a vile man. I think about death too much. > I > > > harbor > > > death. Here is a nonexistent image of the harboring of death: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/harboring.jpg > > > > > > That won't do. That will never do. Death has a motion. Death has > a > > > motion > > > _from the other side._ Here is a nonexistent film of the motion > of > > > death: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathmotion.jpg > > > > > > That's insufficient. That's never enough. Death is the > refutation of > > > all. > > > Death terminates infinitude. Here is death's nonexistent > refutation > > > of the > > > paradoxes of mathematics: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/refutation.txt > > > > > > That can't count enough. That's never enough. Death devours > > > data-base and > > > protocol. Here is a nonexistent indexing of death's world and > > > universe: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/index.html > > > > > > Death counters me. Death encounters me. Death stymies, subverts. > I > > > dream > > > death's dream. Here is a nonexistent presentation of death's > > > dreaming: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathdream.pdf > > > > > > Death's dreaming which is never enough. Death motivates me. I > > > succumb to > > > death's motivation. I am swallowed by death. Death gives me a > choice > > > which is > > > no choice at all. Here is a nonexistent program of death's > > > stricture, of > > > death's interface, of my collapse of death: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/deathcollapse.exe > > > > > > Death muddles me. Death confuses me. Death take me. Death hold > me. > > > Here is > > > a nonexistent program of death's holding and taking: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/holdingtaking.pl > > > > > > It's too confusing. Death rushes me, annihilates me. I will > death's > > > > > > annihilation. Yet does death listen. Nor does death listen. Here > is > > > a > > > nonexistent configuration of death's silence: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/silence.ini > > > > > > It's too noisy. Death crushes me, lacerates me. Death has no > bell, > > > no drum, no > > > whistle. Death writes this. Here is a nonexistent file of > death's > > > grip, death's > > > claw, death's blood, death's bone, my grip, my claw, my blood, > my > > > bone: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > > > > > It's too absent. It begs presence from death. It begs a > missive. > > > Here is the > > > nonexistent missive: > > > http://www.asondheim.org/placespace > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:26:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jason, Thank you for your acute analysis, without too much hagiography. The key phrase to me in your passage is: "and with the further constraint that he didn't want to offer up anything that looked anything like a theory based on his belief that any such theory is doomed to be nonsensical." Well, it is nonsensical, and he knows it to be so, since in his universe metaphysics is nonsense. On the other hand, there is the question: "how can I go on living without meaning, without killing myself?" Therefore, he has to act as though there is meaning. I wish someone honestly faces this dilemma in Wittgenstein's philosophy. "Vagueness" feels so much like a loophole to me, if he did not feel compelled to square this loophole. Ciao, Murat On 7/9/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > after sondheim > > one of the problems with reading ludwig wittgenstein is that he very > rarely makes explicit the targets of his investigations. this is bad enough > in his early work, and it becomes almost insurmountable in his late period, > to the point that one almost needs a knowledge of frege, russell, > schopenauer, james, moore, and spengler, as well as a working knowledge of > the ideas of the vienna circle to know what he is talking about a lot of the > time. > > this is not to say that what he is talking about is necessarily something > not worth knowing, or that one SHOULD have to know about frege et al in > order to understand the points he makes. Rather, this is one facet of the > difficulty in reading wittgenstein that he wrote for a very small audience > with the prior conviction that he probably couldn't make himself understood > anyway, and with the further constraint that he didn't want to offer up > anything that looked anything like a theory based on his belief that any > such theory is doomed to be nonsensical. > > the question that here arises then is what to make of wittgenstein's > treatment of intention and vagueness in Philosophical Investigations and > Zettel? > > The answer is a relatively simple one that must be understood in terms of > the movement that wittgenstein prophetically opposed in all of his later > work, that is, the Chomskyan school of linguistics and their lynchpin theory > of universal grammar. > > Whether or not such a universal grammar hardwired into human brains > wittgenstein would have held as a question for psychologists and > neurologists, and not for linguists and philosophers. Rather, it is the duty > of philosophers and linguists to look at the forms of life in which language > arises and to see how language is used in those areas. His argument here is > not specifically directed against anyone, although russell and his > chrystaline formal grammars of logic and mathematics, as well as the > scientific materialism of the vienna circale are both specifc targets that > he no doubt intended to take aim at. > > Rather, what the intention is here is to direct the attention of his > reader via his interlocutor at the usefulness, and indeed, the necessity of > vagueness for communication. It is vagueness that allows us to use color > words, to use indexical expressions, and to shortcut around all manner of > terms that if we necessitated rigorous and thorough definitions for, would > be completely unworkable. his statement that "we have got on to slippery ice > and are unable to walk. for that we need friction, back to the rough ground" > is as succinct a statement as possible outlining the need for vagueness in > language in order to allow it to communicate anything at all. > > further, note that it is vague that the intent here is to challenge such > polishers of language, those who would produce idealized, universal > grammars, and beneath that, the intent to show how such endeavors are not > just doomed to failure and worthless, but that they are actively detrimental > to understanding. > > There is a point at which the vagueness of a sentence must be accepted as > an end and that we must stop polishing it for if we do not it will cease to > mean what it vaguely means and begin to precisely mean something else > entirely, if it is lucky enough to mean anything at all, which is highly > unlikely. > > more to the point, however, is the question of intent and how one intends. > the idea of intent is a metaphysically garbled one and very difficult to > speak about. wittgenstein instead directs us to think about situations in > which we use the word. his suggestion is that those uses are what the word > and the behavior means and there is an end to it. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:21:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rebecca Loudon Subject: Re: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says In-Reply-To: <20070709210235.QOY7591.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@HPLASERJ> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Actually, the cats were *not* Ernest Hemingway's cats and are not descendents of a pet owned by Hemingway. Hemingway raised peacocks as pets at 907 Whitehead Street and the cats showed up much later. The cat myth continues to help sell tickets to the house where the polydactyl cats presently reside, and ticket sales help to maintain the house, so it is all for the good. I found the cats to be fat and lazy and quite happy and most of them were spayed or neutered. Rebecca Loudon http://radishking.blogspot.com On 7/9/07, Vernon Frazer wrote: > > Only in Florida! > > I like the cats. They add to the ambience. > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 1:39 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says > > (I guess this is what it takes to get people to pay attention to a > bit of literary history...) > > > Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says > > KEY WEST, Florida (AP) -- City officials have sided with Ernest > Hemingway's former home and its celebrated six-toed felines in its > cat fight with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/09/hemingway.cats.ap/index.html > > Patches, a descendant of Ernest Hemingway's six-toed cats, is on the > prowl in Key West, Florida. > > The Key West City Commission exempted the home from a city law > prohibiting more than four domestic animals per household. > > About 50 cats live there. > > The house has been locked in a dispute with the USDA, which claims > the museum is an "exhibitor" of cats and needs a special license, a > claim the home disputes. > > The new ordinance reads in part, "The cats reside on the property > just as the cats did in the time of Hemingway himself. They are not > on exhibition in the manner of circus animals. ... The City > Commission finds that family of polydactyl Hemingway cats are indeed > animals of historic, social and tourism significance." > > It also states that the cats are "an integral part of the history and > ambiance of the Hemingway House." > > A USDA spokesman did not return messages left late Sunday. > > The cats are descendants of a six-toed cat given as a gift to the > writer in 1935. All carry the gene for six toes, though not all > display the trait. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:47:23 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says In-Reply-To: <20070709210235.QOY7591.ibm58aec.bellsouth.net@HPLASERJ> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:02 PM, Vernon Frazer wrote: > Only in Florida! It's the Keys =97 Florida's way up north & nastily different > > I like the cats. They add to the ambience. yeah, they are a pleasure & a sight for sore eyes after a barfull of =20 lousy high school hem imitation teenage drunks Pierre > > Vernon > http://vernonfrazer.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group =20 > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of mIEKAL aND > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 1:39 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says > > (I guess this is what it takes to get people to pay attention to a > bit of literary history...) > > > Six-toed Hemingway cats can stay, city says > > KEY WEST, Florida (AP) -- City officials have sided with Ernest > Hemingway's former home and its celebrated six-toed felines in its > cat fight with the U.S. Department of Agriculture. > > http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/07/09/hemingway.cats.ap/index.html > > Patches, a descendant of Ernest Hemingway's six-toed cats, is on the > prowl in Key West, Florida. > > The Key West City Commission exempted the home from a city law > prohibiting more than four domestic animals per household. > > About 50 cats live there. > > The house has been locked in a dispute with the USDA, which claims > the museum is an "exhibitor" of cats and needs a special license, a > claim the home disputes. > > The new ordinance reads in part, "The cats reside on the property > just as the cats did in the time of Hemingway himself. They are not > on exhibition in the manner of circus animals. ... The City > Commission finds that family of polydactyl Hemingway cats are indeed > animals of historic, social and tourism significance." > > It also states that the cats are "an integral part of the history and > ambiance of the Hemingway House." > > A USDA spokesman did not return messages left late Sunday. > > The cats are descendants of a six-toed cat given as a gift to the > writer in 1935. All carry the gene for six toes, though not all > display the trait. ___________________________________________________________ In philosophical terms, human liberty is the basic question of art. =20 -- Joseph Beuys ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 244 Elm Street Albany NY 12202 h: 518 426 0433 c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 71 Euro cell: (011 33) 6 75 43 57 10 email: joris@albany.edu http://pierrejoris.com/ Nomadics blog: http://pjoris.blogspot.com ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:44:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: 13 by M. Niemi/my new gmail/Original Digital Poetry at blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jim-- Many thanks--am glad you are enjoying them, and yes, a relation with concrete, while not being it-- also in the archive you indicate for week beginning 24 june--is some of the "Original Digital (Visual) Poetry"-- in its most "elemental" if not "foundational" form in the most "direct" way! onwo/ards! david-bc i signed on to gmail to spare everyone the horrors of hotmail, now to improve my typing! and dyslexia! > > > Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 21:52:55 -0700 > > From: jim@VISPO.COM > > Subject: Re: 13 by Marko Niemi > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > have been enjoying the rubBeings at > http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com > > and http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com/2007_06_24_archive.html , > david. > > > > it's in fascinating relation with concrete but, as you imply, it isn't > > concrete poetry. > > > > ja > > http://vispo.com > > ------------------------------ > Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one > place! Find it! > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:55:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Pyjamas are getting hot today MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's really hot in these here pyjamas today...flannel in July can be a killer...but also hot is a new poem by Che Elias...and a "name the poet, name the poem, win a Psyduck postcard" contest....are you savvy enough to hit the clown's teeth spot on with that old softball? let's see... _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com) ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:33:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: death's prospect In-Reply-To: <20070709.173343.920.11.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit guess i'm thinking 'bout the distinction allen makes between the horrible and the miserable: "I'm obsessed with uh, with death, I think. Big - big subject with me, yeah. I have a very pessimistic view of life. You should know this about me if we're gonna go out. You know, I - I feel that life is - is divided up into the horrible and the miserable. Those are the two categories, you know. The - the horrible would be like, um, I don't know, terminal cases, you know, and blind people, crippled. I don't know how they get through life. It's amazing to me. You know, and the miserable is everyone else. That's - that's - so - so - when you go through life - you should be thankful that you're miserable because you're very lucky to be miserable." seems this captures the sentiment of dusty's intensifying restatement. amis does the same thing to 'death' or at least the trappings of thwarted virility, casting it always in the superlative for burlesque. always. the u-man's salvation involves a woman from the demi-monde who walks the nevsky or nevsky's from every elsewehere. Quoting "steve d. dalachinsky" : > yes dusty's notes opening line > > On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:57:08 -0400 Chris Chapman writes: > > Woody Allen in _Annie Hall_ > > and Martin Amis in > > every novel he wrote but especially > > _London Fields_ > > > > ...cf. the theory of increasing humiliation. > > > > Quoting Nicky Melville : > > > > > i am a sick man a spiteful man ... who said that? > > > > > > the underground man in Notes from Underground...? > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Watch all 9 Live Earth concerts live on MSN. > > http://liveearth.uk.msn.com > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 17:41:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: unbidden editing : put a cap in this string In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (never edit after) downing shots after shots of scotch and "Recherche";=20 or the Anthology true. the thirty-five. whatever works. his poet, real even in the water.=20 did think of things interesting this month's poets. rejected the object. you work.=20 in the publication of a poem for the Eda issue, it was made of scotch, and saying=20 "oh, so they know editing." (derived from a message of Murat's on this string, 7/4) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:59:09 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707091426y7b4316a3u7082867737cdac5f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It seems odd to me that the linguists are supposed to be on the side of the philosophers, and not on the side of the psychologists and neurologists. If anything, I'd have imagined it would be the psychologists together with the philosophers vs the linguists and neurologists...psychology being to neurology as (a certain kind of) philosophy is to linguistics, maybe. Comments? > > Whether or not such a universal grammar hardwired into human brains > wittgenstein would have held as a question for psychologists and > neurologists, and not for linguists and philosophers. Rather, it is the duty > of philosophers and linguists to look at the forms of life in which language > arises and to see how language is used in those areas. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:29:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Diane DiPrima wrote: > For what it's worth, I knew him back in the day. But I never did > understand > what makes "beat" & don't like the term myself. > > But does anyone know how to reach Bill Bissett now? Contact him through Talonbooks. Just Google Talonbooks Mr. G.H. Bowering Does not get up immoderately early. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:35:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: some notes on language In-Reply-To: <021801c7c247$43c578b0$ea2c7a92@net.plm.eds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Thanks for this. Different books here have different spellings; I also don't have access to the diacritical marks. - Alan On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Alan Sondheim > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:23 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: some notes on language > > > Agehananda Bharati writes on 'intentional language' in The Tantric Tradi- > tion - this is considered a mistranslation of samdha-bhasa by Alex Wayman > in The Buddhist Tantras: Light on Indo-Tibetan Esotericism; he translates > the same as 'twilight language' as the 'climactics' between darkness and > light. The ambiguity that arises is described by Nagarjuna in his Samdhi- > bhasa-jika who gives such examples as "is the ambrosia (amrta) of heaven, > to be drunk continuously." "is wind, is food, to be controlled." "One > should be convinced, 'these very bones of mine are my ornaments.'" "is > inhalation; and one should stop it from its violent acts." "has avikalpa > nature; also, while the wind is being inhaled there is no recitation." > > ========================> > > What the west calls "twilight language", has been mispronounced as > "samdha-bhasa". It should be spelled "sandhyabhasa". Here is a wikipedia > link on > the Charyapadas (pronounced Char-Ja-paw-dough) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charyapada > > The facts on this page, as far as I can tell, are correct. > > The word "sandhya" in Bengali, Hindi and/or most east Indian languages means > "evening", "bhasa" is language. > > Thanks > > Aryanil > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:49:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > after sondheim > > one of the problems with reading ludwig wittgenstein is that he very rarely > makes explicit the targets of his investigations. this is bad enough in his > early work, and it becomes almost insurmountable in his late period, to the > point that one almost needs a knowledge of frege, russell, schopenauer, > james, moore, and spengler, as well as a working knowledge of the ideas of > the vienna circle to know what he is talking about a lot of the time. > Just a minor point - It's very clear what the early work is book; 'das Welt' is the subject which is then considered in relation to logical propositions taken in various sets; the Sheffer stroke is the fundamental process here. I read the TLP when I was 19 and have been with it on and off since; it's the final statement of a kind of 19th-century strunctural- ism that appeared in Hertz's mechanics, etc. In any case, yes, it helps to know Frege and the others - Whitehead as well, but that's true of almost all philosophy; it's not ab nihilo. To look at Derrida for example, it helps to know Hegel, Levinas, Sartre, Heidegger of course, etc. etc. Re: The Vienna circle - here W. pretty much stands on his own although Carnap can't hurt. I don't see where W. had the 'prior conviction' you mention but then I don't remember all the details of his life. With the Investigations the situation is very different. I don't think the Principia Mathematica was really detailed there; it was on the TLP, and already of course the paradoxes of mathematics destroyed the crystalline order in terms of a constructivist axiomatics - of course you'd have to believe that proof theory's somehow connected to ontology for the dstruc- tion to occur. Your point about universal grammar is really interesting; I do wonder though if one can make a leap from language games etc. to a probmeatizing of such a grammar. They're different epistemologies; I don't think (I may be very wrong here) that universal grammar implies exact meaning and denotation - if anything it seems to me it would deal with the structures underlying language games, since, when such a game is played, as it always is, the participants in a dialog almost always understand implicitly what is meant. This would be a substructural affair, not an affair of defini- tion. In other words, I don't think the opposition you set up is really necessarily there. - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:09:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Baraban Subject: (re: listenlight) Heavy Editing "Facilitates" Philosopher's Decision to Leave USA In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From Theodor W. Adorno's "On the Question: 'What is German?' ", discussing the author's decision to return to Germany in 1949 (quoted passage found on pages 210-211 of _Critical Models: Interventions and Catchwords_ (New York, Columbia University Press, 1998, translated and with a preface by Henry W. Pickford). Yep, no paragraph breaks (editors must have loved *that*!) and I haven't even provided the whole paragraph. The words with asterisks after them, as the translator explains in the Preface, are English in the original. Very interesting I think, though I wonder about Adorno's generalization regarding "the almost universal technique of adaption, reworking and arranging" that scholarly/philosophical authors in America had to submit to. Having said this, I will risk speaking about what facilitated my decision to return. A publisher, incidentally a European immigrant, who was familiar with the German manuscript of Philosophy of New Music, expressed the wish to publish the main section of it in English. He asked me for a rough translation. When he read it, he found that the book, with which he was already familiar, was "badly organized"* (schlecht organisiert). I said to myself that, at least in Germany, despite all that has happened there, I would be spared this. A few years later the same thing happened again, only this time grotesquely intensified. I had presented a lecture in the Psychoanalytic Society in San Francisco and given it to their affiliated professional journal for publication. In the galleys I discovered that they had not been satisfied with improving the stylistic deficiencies of an emigrant writer. The entire text had been disfigured beyond recognition, the fundamental intentions could not be recovered. To my polite protest I received the no less polite and regretful explanation, that the journal owes its reputation precisely to its practice of submitting all contributions to such editing* (Redaktion). The editing provided the journal with its uniformity; I would only be standing in my own way were I to forego its advantages. Nonetheless I did forego them; today the article can be found in the volume Sociologica II under the title "Die revidierte Psychoanalyse" ("Psychoanalysis Revised") in a quite faithful German translation. In it one can check whether the text needed to be filtered through a machine, obedient to that almost universal technique of adaptation, reworking, and arranging, to which powerless authors have to submit in America. I give these examples not to complain about the country where I found refuge but to explain clearly why I did not stay. In comparison with the horrors of National Socialism my literary experiences were insignificant bagatelles. But once I had survived, it was certainly excusable that I sought working conditions that would impair my work as little as possible. I was perfectly aware that the autonomy I championed as the unconditional right of the author to determine the integral form of his production had, at the same time, something regressive about it in relation to the highly rationalized commercial exploitation even of spiritual creations. What was being demanded of me was nothing other than the logically consistent application of the laws of highly advanced economic concentration to scholarly and literary products. However, what represents progress according to the standards of adaptation inevitably meant regression according to the standards of the subject matter itself... ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:41:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <001101c7c22d$760b5700$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable > Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", > inspired by and with a collaboration with bill bissett... >=20 > http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 thanks for that. that's one for the good guys. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:44:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707091426y7b4316a3u7082867737cdac5f@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed hi Murat, I think this is the fundamental problem of wittgenstein on which pretty much everybody either misunderstands him or goes too far in the direction he was trying to avoid going. wittgenstein doesn't argue that "life is meaningless" he argues that the class of question "what is the meaning of life?" is is a member is nonsensical. the key distinction here is between nonsensical (unzinning) sentences and senseless (sinnloss) sentences. a nonsensical sentence might still have a use for our form of life, and therefore have a kind of meaning that is different from what is meant by "the meaning of a word." a senseless sentence on the other hand is merely something that doesn't fit in the grammar. like "car water uncomfortably green mayonaise jar." nonsense has a purpose, and it's important to understand that the reason people try to say these things is not because they're stupid or that they're deluded. They try to say these things because it's important what they're trying to say, and a part of our form of life to try to say it. It's just that it's equally important to recognize that in doing so, you're "running your head up against the walls of language." Again, it's not that there is no such thing as metaphysics, it's that it's not possible to say anything sensible about metaphysics. There's the world, there's us in it, there's our interactions with the world and the world's interactions with itself. There's no way to "go deeper" than that. That doesn't mean there isn't a "deeper" there, but to say there is or there isn't is not to say something that can really be understood except in the most shallow ways. We can, on the other hand, show that there is something there, and in this case language is working more like a finger pointing at a ball, then a sign on the ball that reads "ball". I can say "that, that's what i want to talk about, right there" but I can't go any further than that indexical expression because I have no public grounds by which I can tell if I'm using my words correctly or not. All i can do is stipulate what the correct meanings of the words are, which is really all that metaphysics boils down to, stipulating the meanings of words and arguing over whose stipulations bear the best fruit, best depending almost entirely on which bullets you're willing to bite and what your intuitions tell you must be the case. Up to that point, Wittgenstein and I agree. However I don't think he ever went far enough with his mysticism to the point where he realized just how much could be said with nonsense. I always wondered what might have happened if late in life he'd seriously studied the Chuangzi and the Tao Te Ching. Unfortunately I think his cultural and aesthetic biases, growing up in the efete and culturally strangled air of fin de siecle Vienna, prevented him from realizing some of the same things Joseph Campbell went on to realize about the power of myth and folklore. Wittgenstein's remarks on the the golden bough, in which he remarks on Frazier's misunderstanding of magic in other cultures is very much a joseph campbell kind of read on the problems of cultural translation. I on the other hand am of the opinion that this "showing" of wittgensteins is much more subtle and able to be directed than he was. I think that's what good poetry always does is to point in someway at something that can't be plainly said. that's what devices like metaphor and allusion are for, but in reality I think most of the language arts get there in someway, but poetry in particular has that as it's workspace. Wittgenstein, no fan of modernism in any form, would beg to differ. But then he was also the first to admit that he didn't understand any of it and did not like the world as it was because he could not understand it. But as to the question of vagueness, i may have done uncle ludwig a disservice in my exegesis. His point isn't that vagueness is better than precision, or vice versa, but that both have their uses, and what matters is the task you have before you and what demands it makes. If you're building a raft out of logs, you can probably eyeball most of your measurements and get things roughly in line with each other, and there's no need to measure down to the sub-micron level. That might be important though if you're building a particle collider, though. Wittgenstein's point is that sometimes we let ourselves be led astray by a pursuit of precision where no great deal of precision is warranted, and in fact the pursuit of precision will prevent you from getting where you want to go. you end up with a raft the logs of which are exactly the same length, but which nevertheless are full of holes and sink the minute they hit the water. On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, > > Thank you for your acute analysis, without too much hagiography. > > The key phrase to me in your passage is: "and with the further constraint > that he didn't want to offer up anything that looked anything like a theory > based on his belief that any such theory is doomed to be nonsensical." > > Well, it is nonsensical, and he knows it to be so, since in his universe > metaphysics is nonsense. On the other hand, there is the question: "how can > I go on living without meaning, without killing myself?" Therefore, he has > to act as though there is meaning. I wish someone honestly faces this > dilemma in Wittgenstein's philosophy. > > "Vagueness" feels so much like a loophole to me, if he did not feel > compelled to square this loophole. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On 7/9/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >> after sondheim >> >> one of the problems with reading ludwig wittgenstein is that he very >> rarely makes explicit the targets of his investigations. this is bad enough >> in his early work, and it becomes almost insurmountable in his late period, >> to the point that one almost needs a knowledge of frege, russell, >> schopenauer, james, moore, and spengler, as well as a working knowledge of >> the ideas of the vienna circle to know what he is talking about a lot of the >> time. >> >> this is not to say that what he is talking about is necessarily something >> not worth knowing, or that one SHOULD have to know about frege et al in >> order to understand the points he makes. Rather, this is one facet of the >> difficulty in reading wittgenstein that he wrote for a very small audience >> with the prior conviction that he probably couldn't make himself understood >> anyway, and with the further constraint that he didn't want to offer up >> anything that looked anything like a theory based on his belief that any >> such theory is doomed to be nonsensical. >> >> the question that here arises then is what to make of wittgenstein's >> treatment of intention and vagueness in Philosophical Investigations and >> Zettel? >> >> The answer is a relatively simple one that must be understood in terms of >> the movement that wittgenstein prophetically opposed in all of his later >> work, that is, the Chomskyan school of linguistics and their lynchpin theory >> of universal grammar. >> >> Whether or not such a universal grammar hardwired into human brains >> wittgenstein would have held as a question for psychologists and >> neurologists, and not for linguists and philosophers. Rather, it is the duty >> of philosophers and linguists to look at the forms of life in which language >> arises and to see how language is used in those areas. His argument here is >> not specifically directed against anyone, although russell and his >> chrystaline formal grammars of logic and mathematics, as well as the >> scientific materialism of the vienna circale are both specifc targets that >> he no doubt intended to take aim at. >> >> Rather, what the intention is here is to direct the attention of his >> reader via his interlocutor at the usefulness, and indeed, the necessity of >> vagueness for communication. It is vagueness that allows us to use color >> words, to use indexical expressions, and to shortcut around all manner of >> terms that if we necessitated rigorous and thorough definitions for, would >> be completely unworkable. his statement that "we have got on to slippery ice >> and are unable to walk. for that we need friction, back to the rough ground" >> is as succinct a statement as possible outlining the need for vagueness in >> language in order to allow it to communicate anything at all. >> >> further, note that it is vague that the intent here is to challenge such >> polishers of language, those who would produce idealized, universal >> grammars, and beneath that, the intent to show how such endeavors are not >> just doomed to failure and worthless, but that they are actively detrimental >> to understanding. >> >> There is a point at which the vagueness of a sentence must be accepted as >> an end and that we must stop polishing it for if we do not it will cease to >> mean what it vaguely means and begin to precisely mean something else >> entirely, if it is lucky enough to mean anything at all, which is highly >> unlikely. >> >> more to the point, however, is the question of intent and how one intends. >> the idea of intent is a metaphysically garbled one and very difficult to >> speak about. wittgenstein instead directs us to think about situations in >> which we use the word. his suggestion is that those uses are what the word >> and the behavior means and there is an end to it. >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 21:48:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: THROW THE AMISH IN JAIL! poets & artists against cruelty to animals In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thank you conrad for your continuing sensitivity to all living creatures On 7/9/07 12:50 PM, "CA Conrad" wrote: > details at > http://CAConradEVENTS.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:20:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: (re: listenlight) Heavy Editing "Facilitates" Philosopher's Decision to L... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/9/2007 9:55:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stephen_baraban@yahoo.com writes: What was being demanded of me was nothing other than the logically consistent application of the laws of highly advanced economic concentration to scholarly and literary products. Gee, if I hear the bastards at Knopf bowdlerize Billy Collins, I'm really not gonna sleep tonight. Wink, wink, nudge, wink. Wittgenstein redux will have me thinking about the cat on the mat again (just as long as it isn't Schrodinger's cat) and it may be comforting...but the Amish (referenced here today?) like things backwards: "Pop's on the Table still, Und half Et." But the substrate gets things done. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:37:52 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hot Whiskey Press Subject: Two New Hot Whiskey Publications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hot Whiskey #3 Letterpress printed cover, 7 X 7", saddle-stitch binding, 56 pages. 2007. $7 Featuring work from: Tino Gomez, Francois Luong, Evan Kennedy, Anselm Parlatore, Sawako Nakayasu, Emily Crocker, Pierre Joris, Robert Roley, Maureen Thorson, Jonathan Skinner, Alan Gilbert, Kevin Kilroy, Matvei Yankelevich, Jane Sprague, Jamba Dunn, The Pines, Ed Baker, Peter Gizzi Plus Norman Mailer interviewed by Millicent Brower circa 1963 Order here: http://www.hotwhiskeypress.com/issue3.html AND Moonshine A pamphlet series of poetic distillation. Issue 1 features Travis Macdonald with an insert by Joseph Cooper & Jared Hayes. Each issue is printed in a run of 100 copies. Ideally, issues will appear monthly to bimonthly. Subscriptions are $10 for one year (6-12 issues). Order here: http://www.hotwhiskeypress.com/moonshine.html Michael & Jennifer -- Hot Whiskey Press www.hotwhiskeyblog.blogspot.com www.hotwhiskeypress.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:56:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: "All pictures malinger..." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas, "Poem for Sonia Balassanian," and work by Che Elias who Meddles into Preclusions...also the "Name the Poet, Name the Poem, Win a Psyduck postcard" mystery....evil albino church minions wait to throw Chinese stars at you if you dare to attempt to unlock the Code... ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:12:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: some notes on language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > On 7/9/07, Alan Sondheim wrote: >> >> Some Notes on Language >> >> >> "The answer is this: war on totality, Let us attest to the unpresentable; >> let us activate the differends and save the honor of the name." (Jean- >> Francois Lyotard, The Postmodern Explained.) >> >> Watching early silent Shakespearian films on Turner Classic Movies - the >> linguistic register transforms into (visual) protolanguage; protolanguage >> can literally trace the visible. the earlier films (1899 - maybe 1908) >> tend towards special effects constructed as if for the first time; pre- >> sence is transformed and protolanguage gives way to wonder. > > > Alan, > > "Traces" not only the "visible," but also the "invisible." > > That's what I have been trying to say for years, including in The Peripheral > Space of Photography. The wonder of a new language, which also implies the > death of the old. > For me, it doesn't have this implication at all of course. > What you call protolanguage (the inert) is also what is beyond words being > the only language ("that=which-is and > that-which=is-not"). No surprise, for the last year, I was trying to > understand your distinction between digital and analalogical. Protolanguage is actually used (I think the author is Bickerton not sure) to represent infant's babble before the syntactical 'explosion.' > Analogical is death, isn't it, death, at least, of a given system > (onelanguage game) > transcending to other media, to other senses (from ear to eye to non > eye/mind's eye, to eda). > I use analogical to call forth a number of things - Rosset's idea of the 'idiotic real' or inert, obdurate; the smoothing integration across the digital or any form of inscription; the 'prior' inchoate of inscription; what remains of the real after political economy is subtracted. ... > When Dostoyesky is saying "I am a sick man, I am a spiteful man, my liver is > diseased," isn't he announcing the birth of a new system, based on a new > ethos (of failure, of death) which of course has withing it the death of the > old? Actually if I remember, the work was a satire on 'What is to be Done' - but the way you read it is now I think the way we have to read it. But not the death of the old; I don't personally believe in succession of this sort. [...] >> >> Wayman states "The twilights symbolized the sensitive points in the >> temporal flow when spiritual victory was possible. A special vocabulary >> was created to refer to these critical points and called in the Buddhist >> Tantras 'twilight language.'" "Nagarjuna's commentary suggests that the >> Hevajratantra has given the basic list of 'twilight language.' These are >> expressions for ambiguous yoga states, while 'non-twilight language' >> refers to states of yoga that are not ambiguous." In English, the phrases >> themselves are ambiguous and it's not clear whether the ambiguity >> parallels or is equivalent to the ambiguity in the original. It's not >> clear where the original lies. The ambiguity in English refuses to resolve >> and it is this refusal that constructs an alliance with the inert. > > > The refusal to escape this ambiguity, but rather to embrace this distance, > is what true translation is. Sounds good to me! > The language of the inert = Melville (his "inert" narrative, "I would prefer > not to") = silence of the audible through seeing (silent movies) = seeing of > the invisible (Bresson, peripheral space) = a sound or movement of the mind > ("heard melodies are sweet, but those unheard sweeter") = eda ("play on...). > Interesting chain of processes here... Which brings back the Wittgenstein of TLP 7.0 about silence - but this is after all those other propositions, choices, after mathesis. - Alan > Ciao, > > Murat > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 23:58:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a book signing at the Barnes & Noble where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past midnight). He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the occasion. While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when would be the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm going to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views about the war? BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda stuff. You know? Ah. ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about THE SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, but while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to myself that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book signing and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? Wow! Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker about how incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a rock star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen other rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against war, talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it better?" How about John Lennon? What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for bullets for machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine guns for Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? How is it okay for any American to not know about it? How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every single fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT THE NEXT SHIPMENT! I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair is nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's JUST joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a martyr! Worship of a suicide! How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy thought. Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is he voting for? Is he registered? I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:11:36 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George-- That is kind of weak, haven't you known Diane longer than that? I think you could offer better, but Bill is Canadian so I do not expect much from his home land. When are you going to read for me instead of going to a reds game? Anyways Diane, backchannel, I'll find it. be well-- dave On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Diane DiPrima wrote: > For what it's worth, I knew him back in the day. But I never did > understand > what makes "beat" & don't like the term myself. > > But does anyone know how to reach Bill Bissett now? Contact him through Talonbooks. Just Google Talonbooks ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:57:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 13 by M. Niemi/my new gmail/Original Digital Poetry at blog In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > also in the archive you indicate for week beginning 24 june--is > some of the > "Original Digital (Visual) Poetry"-- > > in its most "elemental" if not "foundational" form in the most > "direct" way! i'm not sure what you mean, david. the RubBeings are 'concrete' in the feel of their relation with the physical. but usually they are also more informed by visual art than typical concrete, which was usually in closer proximity with the page. here's a poem by lionel kearns from 1965 called 'Birth of God/uniVerse' (he abreviates it as 'BoG') that is some 'original digital visual poetry': http://vispo.com/kearns/bog1.htm . this is from a 1969 book of his called 'By the Light of the Silvery McLune: Media Parables, Poems, Signs, Gestures, and Other Assaults on the Interface'. ja ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:18:36 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: (re: listenlight) Heavy Editing "Facilitates" Philosopher's Decision to Leave USA In-Reply-To: <854441.65706.qm@web30708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit With regard to "the autonomy I championed as the unconditional right of the author," however, check the correspondence between Adorno as an editor of the Zeitschrift fur Sozialforschung and Walter Benjamin as author of "Paris of the Second Empire." Stephen Baraban wrote: From Theodor W. Adorno's "On the Question: 'What is German?' ", discussing the author's decision to return to Germany in 1949 (quoted passage found on pages 210-211 of _Critical Models: Interventions and Catchwords_ (New York, Columbia University Press, 1998, translated and with a preface by Henry W. Pickford). Yep, no paragraph breaks (editors must have loved *that*!) and I haven't even provided the whole paragraph. The words with asterisks after them, as the translator explains in the Preface, are English in the original. Very interesting I think, though I wonder about Adorno's generalization regarding "the almost universal technique of adaption, reworking and arranging" that scholarly/philosophical authors in America had to submit to. Having said this, I will risk speaking about what facilitated my decision to return. A publisher, incidentally a European immigrant, who was familiar with the German manuscript of Philosophy of New Music, expressed the wish to publish the main section of it in English. He asked me for a rough translation. When he read it, he found that the book, with which he was already familiar, was "badly organized"* (schlecht organisiert). I said to myself that, at least in Germany, despite all that has happened there, I would be spared this. A few years later the same thing happened again, only this time grotesquely intensified. I had presented a lecture in the Psychoanalytic Society in San Francisco and given it to their affiliated professional journal for publication. In the galleys I discovered that they had not been satisfied with improving the stylistic deficiencies of an emigrant writer. The entire text had been disfigured beyond recognition, the fundamental intentions could not be recovered. To my polite protest I received the no less polite and regretful explanation, that the journal owes its reputation precisely to its practice of submitting all contributions to such editing* (Redaktion). The editing provided the journal with its uniformity; I would only be standing in my own way were I to forego its advantages. Nonetheless I did forego them; today the article can be found in the volume Sociologica II under the title "Die revidierte Psychoanalyse" ("Psychoanalysis Revised") in a quite faithful German translation. In it one can check whether the text needed to be filtered through a machine, obedient to that almost universal technique of adaptation, reworking, and arranging, to which powerless authors have to submit in America. I give these examples not to complain about the country where I found refuge but to explain clearly why I did not stay. In comparison with the horrors of National Socialism my literary experiences were insignificant bagatelles. But once I had survived, it was certainly excusable that I sought working conditions that would impair my work as little as possible. I was perfectly aware that the autonomy I championed as the unconditional right of the author to determine the integral form of his production had, at the same time, something regressive about it in relation to the highly rationalized commercial exploitation even of spiritual creations. What was being demanded of me was nothing other than the logically consistent application of the laws of highly advanced economic concentration to scholarly and literary products. However, what represents progress according to the standards of adaptation inevitably meant regression according to the standards of the subject matter itself... ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 06:50:25 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Oregon Literary Review, Summer/Fall 2007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.oregonlitrev.org/v2n2/OregonLiteraryReview.htm -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:16:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard Jeffrey Newman Subject: Special Issue on Persian/Iranian literature MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ArteEast (www.arteeast.org) has just launched a special issue of its online magazine, ArteNews (http://www.arteeast.dreamhosters.com/pages/artenews/persian_lit/), edited by yours truly, on Persian/Iranian literature. The issue features a new story by Nahid Rachlin, a translation of a story by well-known director Mohsen Makhmalbaf, written not long after the Iranian Revolution when he still identified himself with the Islamic regime there; there are translations from the Shahnameh and Rumi; a new, long poem by Katayoon Zandvakili, who won the University of Georgia Press Contemporary Poetry Series prize in 1998; poems originally written in English by Farideh Hasanzadeh and Maryam Ala-Amjadi, two poets from Iran; and more. Please check it out, and, if you are so moved, let me know what you think. Thanks, Richard ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:32:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/9/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > hi Murat, > I think this is the fundamental problem of wittgenstein on which pretty > much everybody either misunderstands him or goes too far in the direction he > was trying to avoid going. > > wittgenstein doesn't argue that "life is meaningless" he argues that the > class of question "what is the meaning of life?" is is a member is > nonsensical. the key distinction here is between nonsensical (unzinning) > sentences and senseless (sinnloss) sentences. a nonsensical sentence might > still have a use for our form of life, and therefore have a kind of meaning > that is different from what is meant by "the meaning of a word." a senseless > sentence on the other hand is merely something that doesn't fit in the > grammar. like "car water uncomfortably green mayonaise jar." nonsense has a > purpose, and it's important to understand that the reason people try to say > these things is not because they're stupid or that they're deluded. Jason, Once again, your post is full of fascinating observations, and I will try to respond to them tangentially, in spots. Otherwise, we would get entangled 'in the grapevines of language." "a nonsensical sentence might still have a use for our form of life, and therefore have a kind of meaning that is different from what is meant by "the meaning of a word.": What is this meaning of a "nonsensical language"? Can you (or Wittgenstein) elaborate on that, without being entangled in the deficiencies of one's own thought? At most, after a lip service, isn't the exploration of what that meaning is dropped? "a senseless sentence on the other hand is merely something that doesn't fit in the grammar. like "'car water uncomfortably green mayonaise jar'": do you mean a lot of language poetry (or of the post avant kind) is senseless? (O.K., just kidding!) They try to say these things because it's important what they're trying to > say, and a part of our form of life to try to say it. It's just that it's > equally important to recognize that in doing so, you're "running your head > up against the walls of language." > > Again, it's not that there is no such thing as metaphysics, it's that it's > not possible to say anything sensible about metaphysics. No, Wittgenstein says it's not possible to say anything sensible in metaphysics, while all he is involved in is metaphysics. That's why we still read him, while we still consider him trapped in a contradiction ("a theory doomed to be nonsensical" - a nonsensical performance/poem). There's the world, there's us in it, there's our interactions with the world > and the world's interactions with itself. There's no way to "go deeper" than > that. That doesn't mean there isn't a "deeper" there, but to say there is or > there isn't is not to say something that can really be understood except in > the most shallow ways. We can, on the other hand, show that there is > something there, and in this case language is working more like a finger > pointing at a ball, Well, when pointing is not a language, why such an arbitrary limit? As you say later, can't poetry basically be a pointing, "a coup de des," in space? then a sign on the ball that reads "ball". I can say "that, that's what i > want to talk about, right there" but I can't go any further than that > indexical expression because I have no public grounds by which I can tell if > I'm using my words correctly or not. Once again, who determined that establishing "public grounds" is the measure by which one will legitimize the correctness of a language. Linguistic philosophy basically "proves" something by acting as if mathematics. It defines a given word in an over-precise, limiting way way. Then it "proves" that a certain activity within that precise (axiom-like) meaning of the word is impossible. There is something tyrannical -ideological- in this process, denying the possibility or the legitimacy of the other (the outside). Since this branch of linguistic philosophy is an offshoot of logical positivism (or what I would call fundamentalist empiricism) has a Western ideological bent to it. I must acknowledge that Wittgenstein himself never used the trick of misapplying mathematics, its tautological insular/circular thinking to metaphysics. As far as I can see, he accepting rather to live within its contradictions; but very few of his followers showed the same understanding. The fact is that very few words in a language have fixed, completely defined meanings. This has little to do with grammar (Chomskian or otherwise), but a lot to do with the open ended nature of words to change and move in unexpected directions, assume unexpected meanings (that's what metaphor is), as they are interacting with new cultural forces. In other words, the impossibility of a final definition to be given to a word is the linguistic equivalent of freedom. And imposing such pre-emptive, partly arbitrary definitions on words is the linguistic, ideological equivalent of tyranny. All i can do is stipulate what the correct meanings of the words are, which > is really all that metaphysics boils down to, No, metaphysicis is to swim in the river of ambiguity, between two shores, which is what Wittgenstein, among others, does. stipulating the meanings of words and arguing over whose stipulations bear > the best fruit, best depending almost entirely on which bullets you're > willing to bite and what your intuitions tell you must be the case. What kind of fruit are you talking about? Is it the fruit of pragmatic usefulness, which I think very often the motive, the assumed norm behind these analyses? What does intuition tell us about this question? Up to that point, Wittgenstein and I agree. However I don't think he ever went far enough with his mysticism to the point where he realized just how much could be said with nonsense. If he acknowledged his mysticism, he knew his whole edifice would fall. Though he had to practice it without "naming" it, therefore, never subjecting his own activities to the "rigors of a definition." I always wondered what might have happened if late in life he'd seriously > studied the Chuangzi and the Tao Te Ching. Unfortunately I think his > cultural and aesthetic biases, growing up in the efete and culturally > strangled air of fin de siecle Vienna, prevented him from realizing some of > the same things Joseph Campbell went on to realize about the power of myth > and folklore. Wittgenstein's remarks on the the golden bough, in which he > remarks on Frazier's misunderstanding of magic in other cultures is very > much a joseph campbell kind of read on the problems of cultural translation. > > I on the other hand am of the opinion that this "showing" of wittgensteins > is much more subtle and able to be directed than he was. I think that's what > good poetry always does is to point in someway at something that can't be > plainly said. that's what devices like metaphor and allusion are for, but in > reality I think most of the language arts get there in someway, but poetry > in particular has that as it's workspace. Wittgenstein, no fan of modernism > in any form, would beg to differ. But then he was also the first to admit > that he didn't understand any of it and did not like the world as it was > because he could not understand it. "Poetry, I also hate it." Didn't Robert Foreman say something similar about the theater? But as to the question of vagueness, i may have done uncle ludwig a > disservice in my exegesis. His point isn't that vagueness is better than > precision, or vice versa, but that both have their uses, and what matters is > the task you have before you and what demands it makes. If you're building a > raft out of logs, you can probably eyeball most of your measurements and get > things roughly in line with each other, and there's no need to measure down > to the sub-micron level. That might be important though if you're building a > particle collider, though. I don't really think that's what Wittgenstein means. As I see it, he is referring to the basic ambiguity of language, of words (their implicit openness), what I have talked about. Of course, spelled out in a "precise way," he may object to this assertion. Wittgenstein's point is that sometimes we let ourselves be led astray by a > pursuit of precision where no great deal of precision is warranted, and in > fact the pursuit of precision will prevent you from getting where you want > to go. you end up with a raft the logs of which are exactly the same length, > but which nevertheless are full of holes and sink the minute they hit the > water. Was Wittgenstein really such a good boy, a good Viennese (middle class and pragmatic) or basically insane? Bertrand Russel seems to have sensed this quality about him the moment he met him at Cambridge. If I remember correctly, he says [I am paraphrasing], "he was either a madman or genius. He was a genius." Why not both, that's what the nature of his ambiguity and fate was: to create a metaphysical poem, maybe his worst fear. Ciao, Murat On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > > Jason, > > > > Thank you for your acute analysis, without too much hagiography. > > > > The key phrase to me in your passage is: "and with the further > constraint > > that he didn't want to offer up anything that looked anything like a > theory > > based on his belief that any such theory is doomed to be nonsensical." > > > > Well, it is nonsensical, and he knows it to be so, since in his universe > > metaphysics is nonsense. On the other hand, there is the question: "how > can > > I go on living without meaning, without killing myself?" Therefore, he > has > > to act as though there is meaning. I wish someone honestly faces this > > dilemma in Wittgenstein's philosophy. > > > > "Vagueness" feels so much like a loophole to me, if he did not feel > > compelled to square this loophole. > > > > Ciao, > > > > Murat > > > > > > On 7/9/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> > >> after sondheim > >> > >> one of the problems with reading ludwig wittgenstein is that he very > >> rarely makes explicit the targets of his investigations. this is bad > enough > >> in his early work, and it becomes almost insurmountable in his late > period, > >> to the point that one almost needs a knowledge of frege, russell, > >> schopenauer, james, moore, and spengler, as well as a working knowledge > of > >> the ideas of the vienna circle to know what he is talking about a lot > of the > >> time. > >> > >> this is not to say that what he is talking about is necessarily > something > >> not worth knowing, or that one SHOULD have to know about frege et al in > >> order to understand the points he makes. Rather, this is one facet of > the > >> difficulty in reading wittgenstein that he wrote for a very small > audience > >> with the prior conviction that he probably couldn't make himself > understood > >> anyway, and with the further constraint that he didn't want to offer up > >> anything that looked anything like a theory based on his belief that > any > >> such theory is doomed to be nonsensical. > >> > >> the question that here arises then is what to make of wittgenstein's > >> treatment of intention and vagueness in Philosophical Investigations > and > >> Zettel? > >> > >> The answer is a relatively simple one that must be understood in terms > of > >> the movement that wittgenstein prophetically opposed in all of his > later > >> work, that is, the Chomskyan school of linguistics and their lynchpin > theory > >> of universal grammar. > >> > >> Whether or not such a universal grammar hardwired into human brains > >> wittgenstein would have held as a question for psychologists and > >> neurologists, and not for linguists and philosophers. Rather, it is the > duty > >> of philosophers and linguists to look at the forms of life in which > language > >> arises and to see how language is used in those areas. His argument > here is > >> not specifically directed against anyone, although russell and his > >> chrystaline formal grammars of logic and mathematics, as well as the > >> scientific materialism of the vienna circale are both specifc targets > that > >> he no doubt intended to take aim at. > >> > >> Rather, what the intention is here is to direct the attention of his > >> reader via his interlocutor at the usefulness, and indeed, the > necessity of > >> vagueness for communication. It is vagueness that allows us to use > color > >> words, to use indexical expressions, and to shortcut around all manner > of > >> terms that if we necessitated rigorous and thorough definitions for, > would > >> be completely unworkable. his statement that "we have got on to > slippery ice > >> and are unable to walk. for that we need friction, back to the rough > ground" > >> is as succinct a statement as possible outlining the need for vagueness > in > >> language in order to allow it to communicate anything at all. > >> > >> further, note that it is vague that the intent here is to challenge > such > >> polishers of language, those who would produce idealized, universal > >> grammars, and beneath that, the intent to show how such endeavors are > not > >> just doomed to failure and worthless, but that they are actively > detrimental > >> to understanding. > >> > >> There is a point at which the vagueness of a sentence must be accepted > as > >> an end and that we must stop polishing it for if we do not it will > cease to > >> mean what it vaguely means and begin to precisely mean something else > >> entirely, if it is lucky enough to mean anything at all, which is > highly > >> unlikely. > >> > >> more to the point, however, is the question of intent and how one > intends. > >> the idea of intent is a metaphysically garbled one and very difficult > to > >> speak about. wittgenstein instead directs us to think about situations > in > >> which we use the word. his suggestion is that those uses are what the > word > >> and the behavior means and there is an end to it. > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:44:59 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningles... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I said to a new person, "I had had this rock band thing" -- by way of saying my life had gone out to sea -- but since it hadn't been my rock band thing, but someone else's rock band, it took years to realize what I should have said when I showed up safe on shores of heaven, of home, "that rock band thing," instead of my faults & errors & the need for religions. The sailors were living in New York and Madison and Binghamton -- they had their addresses -- there had not been a sailor in any of the rock bands in Houston. There were guitar players, and as happens with talent sometimes, the guitar players were too talented. There could not be places for all of them in a single rock band. Too many of them were too talented and their birthdays were May 1 and Oct. 31, 1966. One was born on the same day & year as JFKJr. One was a Cancer and could overhear voices. Korn was one of their bands. They were mean or neglectful or cavalier toward women. Cavalier was kind of nice. In fact, I had myself wishing that the new person could be cavalier, to let there be a door ajar to the past. Instead, the new person was nice and I did not resemble the me from my rock band thing. He had been a bodyguard and had met many famous people -- not famous like my Pulitzer- and Nobel laureates -- famous like B.B. King -- and had once broken a man's arm who had messed with a woman. He was telling me this in an Irish public house, and an American with an Australian accent, a sea-nymph, was listening to us -- he said she was rubbing up on him during the story, but I couldn't see it because she was on his other side. I had dreamt of it, to know that fury (to break an arm) as he quoted MacBeth ... AMB ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:25:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were probably wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about it or anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to look elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so what? Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume it anyway. Regards, Tom Savage CA Conrad wrote: Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a book signing at the Barnes & Noble where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past midnight). He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the occasion. While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when would be the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm going to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views about the war? BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda stuff. You know? Ah. ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about THE SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, but while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to myself that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book signing and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? Wow! Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker about how incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a rock star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen other rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against war, talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it better?" How about John Lennon? What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for bullets for machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine guns for Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? How is it okay for any American to not know about it? How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every single fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT THE NEXT SHIPMENT! I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair is nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's JUST joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a martyr! Worship of a suicide! How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy thought. Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is he voting for? Is he registered? I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:09:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: (mIEKAL aND's message of "Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:04:30 -0500") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There was that Paris Review interview...so maybe the beats were just able to successfully wishful think bissett in. -- Writers at Work: The Paris Review Interviews, Fourth Series, pp 538-572 Poet Aram Saryoyan and Duncan McNaughton accompanied interviewer Ted Berrigan when he visited Kerouac at his home in Lowell in 1967. Kerouac: ...You know who's a great poet? I know who the great poets are. Interviewer: Who? Kerouac: Let's see, is it...William Bissette of Vancouver. An Indian boy. Bill Bissette, or Bisonnette. -- Regards, Dan mIEKAL aND wrote: > bill bissett is a beat poet? > > On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > >> Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", >> inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... >> >> http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 >> >> >> Gerald S. >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:28:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: barrett gordon Subject: House Press births 2 monsters MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi all, After a flagrant delay unbeknownst to the public at large, House Press is pleased to finally release Barrett Gordon's *rainbow-Grey *=97where rubs fr= om the street & domicile kiss on a paper noodle, & the nym "Dude" is brought back; musings on the weathers under & over the town of Frottage. rubbings and text on paper, 8.5x14 3 double-sided pamphlet broadsides Available for 5 measly bucks, here at http://housepress.blogspot.com/ As well, we've made somewhat more vulnerable(available) the precursor to th= e above work. *graverubber* =97taking up the page as interface between living= & dead / writer & writ, "rubber" gets the twist, hatting the page [over the grave to "catch" the rubbing] like a 'rubber' would, bringing questions lik= e what in the "catch" remains to bear? A light touch over a heavy process; playful, creepy, good for the far-sighted; stone / cran meditations, sweating off an odd, pseudo-necrophilic binge in the early parks. grave rubbings on paper, 8.5x14 1 letter / 1 grave 4 chapters / 4 cemeteries, 1 in Buffalo, 3 in Chicago Available for 7 measly bucks, also here at http://housepress.blogspot.com/ Thanks all, House Press www.housepress.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:53:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Original Digital Poetry/rubBEings/Language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/10/07, David Chirot wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jim. Alan, Murat-- > > > > > > > > the "digital" poetry i am referring to is the little series of > > > > examples from the book Hand Shadows--the digits being the fingers of the > > > > hand--the hand shadows are a form of visual words/langauge created by the > > > > shadows of arrangements of the digits--(and their constant companion, > > > > "Opposable Thumb")--held up between a light source and background--onto > > > > which they are "projected"-- > > > > > > > > > > Rimbaud wrote that his poetry was to be understood "literally and > > > in every sense"--the literal "digital"--fingers, numbers, counting with the > > > fingers--as the "concrete" physical foundation for the digital of the > > > virtual-- a "play on words" as well as a "play on/with numbers"-- > > > > > > "Concrete", "literally and in every sense"--i've made rubBEings of > > > the word "Concrete" that was embedded in concrete blocks-and aslo in > > > sidewlaks---(as part of the name of the company that made the blocks)--the > > > word itself in its literal "concreteness" literally in/on > > > concrete--paradoxically isn't really a "concrete poem"--though i would say > > > that the rubBEing itself is made by both the concrte block and myself > > > working togetehr--the block pushing on to the paper on one side, and i on > > > the other with a lumber crayon--working together the literal concrete and i > > > make this rub-BEing--that is, in the encounter and its documentation----the > > > two become a third--a third and Other BEing to the concrete and i-- > > > > > > yet this concerete is not a "Concrete Poem"--though as kids when > > > i found my father had an anhotlogy of Concrete Poetry--after looking at it > > > for a bit--i showed it to mybrother--we had some old concrete blocks out in > > > the yard and started making "poems" with them--vertically and horizontally, > > > laid out in the grass in various configurations-- > > > > > > where this "literal" (an aspect perhaps of the "idiot real" as > > > well as of some forms of humor--taking things literally often turning them > > > into something unexpected and surreal--)--where this "literaL' and the > > > non-literal meanings of words begin to split apart is when openings > > > occur--an exchange among those things which iinhabit the "inside" of > > > llanguage--lie a river flowing through deltas outwoa/rds--with an outside > > > that is flowing in trhough the openings--and so this liminal area which is > > > "unstable' cointinully shifting, with silts and tides, eddies, currents, > > > debris fro the outside and flotsam from the inside--mixing about--there is a > > > cotinaul instability of language--which for al the rules and theories > > > imposed on it, it keeps in a sense eluding--as burroughs writes in the Intro > > > to "Junkie" "therefore a final glossary cannot be made of words whose > > > intention are fugitive." For there is always an element from within and > > > from the outside of language which is fugitive, which camofulages itself, > > > which can hide in plain site/sight/cite as a "purloined letter"-- > > > Words, becasue they travel through time, are also shifting in > > > other ways--in meanings, spellings, pronunications--the same word takes on > > > may voices and appearances and shadings of alluvial allusions--of impacted > > > secret meanings which may or not require some one at some time to unfold > > > them--if it is possible--One is reading writing speaking hearing often words > > > which seem to list about as they are so freighted with the barnacles of old > > > figures of speech attached to them, long gone jargons --and top heavy with > > > new connotations--even to set to work as a form of sculptor and carve and > > > pound away with a mallet--and remove asmuch of the skin of dross and > > > superannuated moss and scars as one can--there never emerges a truly > > > perfectly formed word--there is always some dent, defect, crack--by which > > > the openings and exchanges take place--and by which the word begins to crack > > > into a mosaic-- > > > > > > > Since i began long ago making the rubBEings and then the clay > > impression spray paintings--findings ways to present these shiftings is > > something that has haunted me and ocupied me a good deal--as one finds it in > > lanaguge al around one--letterings and signs plaques dumpster tops tires > > telephone poles everywhere--language wearing down, transforming, mutating, > > falling aprt--being eras, removed, altered, covered up, diving deeper into > > palimpsistic depths--flying down the streets in fragments--and in the ways > > in which language is camoufflagging itself, fugitvely or simply for fun > > --hide and seek--or as a means of endurance--to sli past the erasing and > > defacing or removing eyes and hands-- > > Especially in many paintings done for a year now as series of > > "Walls"--there's the exploration of hesevents as brought to language by war, > > by weathering, burning, blasting, erasing, defacings--a continual changing > > going on which is not destrucive alone but also tremendously > > "constructive"--that is, from one set of words and language there stream > > forth in the ever altering states of these--hordes of new word particles, > > language particles--even as small as dust--blown about and > > reforming--becoming Other--children or cousins or very distant relatives as > > it were--some small bit of dust being a piece brining with it a > > correspondance which creates among the forms correspondances--in > > correpsondance with each other--"letter writing"--re their "corresponding" > > BEings--events-what i call in working "call and > > response"---sites/sights/cites--traveling-- > > > > in the films that alan wrote of the silent shakespeare--what is > > happening is that scenes ars staged, al is happening as in "real life" > > i.e.--as i the theater--the diference now being there is a new form of > > audience member--the camera--which begins to affect the 'reality" in front > > of it--as itis taking place--and iva its recording of the events and they're > > being shown over and over on reels--opening these events in space (different > > sites of projection) and in time--the events keep "happening" over and over > > through time--yet through time the seeing of the cinema alters the ways one > > sees the films--so each time they are screened now--they are not the same as > > before--the same and not the same-- > > > > again, a form of travel--through space and time--which will be bearing > > within it its openings--beuase what is seen has "gone out of fashion" become > > "primitive" etc--the processes of time are corrdoing and affecting the > > images the way they do words--gestures and images, facial > > expressions--lanaguages which have shifted through time--so that now the > > imegs "speak" differently than "originally"-- > > and with travel such as this--the images, the words, bring with them the > > growing need for "translation" from these previous languages in their > > taphonomic states into something "communicable in modern terms"-- > > > > working with rubBEings and the paintings one begins to find that the > > travel and its giving need to trasnlate, opening the spaces of > > tranaltion--is a way of finding that modes of perception, of language--are > > continaully in a from of flux--in which the introduction of new technologies > > of communication, of the visual--wear away at those previous--the modes of > > seeing employed by humans and of language--shift along with this change > > --previous ways of seeing and hearing , reading, writing, speaking--fade, > > are erased, covered over, become hidden--and "translation" works at "keeping > > alive" these fading ways of awareness and communication--the translation is > > "not the same" as the original to be sure, but a means of keeping in > > contact-- > > > > so the rubBEings are not "copies" but the expression of the encounter of > > the rubBEr and the rubBEd--an encounter which is occuring in the midst of > > these flows of time among words, images--materials-- > > > > not "Concrete Poetry" but something other--though making use of the > > concrete in the most literal sense--moving outwards from the openings > > created by the concrete as something not fixed, immovable--"etched in > > stone"--but something exchanging flows from within itself and from > > without--a liminal area in which the BEings of words, forms--are in action-- > > > > in the liminal area--opened by "digital" as having more than > > on meaning--more than one physical BEing--and moving among these-- > > to be traveling via opening--so as to elude the tendencies to > > fix and give rules to words and forms-- > > and using another word which opens in several ways including > > the photographic, the method of ruBEings- > > > > Paul Celan writes: Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself > and so the word "digital" exposes itself---in the play on words/images in > those archives > http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com > week beginning 24 june 2007 > > > Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 22:57:01 -0700 > > > > > From: jim@VISPO.COM > > > > > Subject: Re: 13 by M. Niemi/my new gmail/Original Digital Poetry > > > > at blog > > > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > > > > > > > also in the archive you indicate for week beginning 24 june--is > > > > > > some of the > > > > > > "Original Digital (Visual) Poetry"-- > > > > > > > > > > > > in its most "elemental" if not "foundational" form in the most > > > > > > "direct" way! > > > > > > > > > > i'm not sure what you mean, david. > > > > > > > > > > the RubBeings are 'concrete' in the feel of their relation with > > > > the > > > > > physical. but usually they are also more informed by visual art > > > > than typical > > > > > concrete, which was usually in closer proximity with the page. > > > > > > > > > > here's a poem by lionel kearns from 1965 called 'Birth of > > > > God/uniVerse' (he > > > > > abreviates it as 'BoG') that is some 'original digital visual > > > > poetry': > > > > > http://vispo.com/kearns/bog1.htm . this is from a 1969 book of his > > > > called > > > > > 'By the Light of the Silvery McLune: Media Parables, Poems, Signs, > > > > Gestures, > > > > > and Other Assaults on the Interface'. > > > > > > > > > > ja > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in > > > > one place! Find it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 16:45:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aside from never believing KORN to be the authentic article... just another self-entitled, over-the-hill grunge act. As for Welch, himself... he's probably just gearing up to play those concerts the dumbass Baldwin Brother is throwing to drag X-TREME sports kids into the BIG SUNDAY TENT... Yes, the days of Phil Ochs and even RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE are long gone (even though Rage seems to be surfacing again). I know of no rockstar (or even most movie stars, politicians or poets, myself included), who has said: "I want to go and expose every one of those secret rendition palaces scattered all over, I want to be at every front, I don't ever want to be what they call "safe," I want to be there, I want to join with my so-called enemies to either turn them (or at least deal with them directly), I want to understand what is happening & share my knowledge with as many as I can possibly reach. I hear no rockstar saying: "I would wish my life to turn into one great prayer. One great peace." It's not in the nature... theirs or in many others. In the meantime, your blog chastens the phonies and toasts the true ones more handily than any few words here ever could... So thanks for it! Gerald S. Held aloft by Smokin' Joe Frazier 45 years ago on the boardwalk in Atlantic City > Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a book signing at the Barnes & Noble > where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past > midnight). > > He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the > occasion. > > While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when would > be > the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm going > to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE > http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com > > ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views about > the > war? > BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda > stuff. > You know? Ah. > ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. > BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. > > That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! > His > nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! > > And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about > those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was > listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about THE > SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing > SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, but > while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to myself > that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book signing > and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be > blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. > > No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? > Wow! > > Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker about > how > incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a rock > star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" > > And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti > Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen > other > rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against > war, > talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it > better?" > > How about John Lennon? > > What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid > little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and > electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for bullets > for > machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A > MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine guns > for > Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? > > How is it okay for any American to not know about it? > > How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every single > fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This > misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! > > WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND > KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT THE > NEXT SHIPMENT! > > I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair is > nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at > all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's > JUST > joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a > martyr! Worship of a suicide! > > How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy > thought. > > Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is he > voting for? Is he registered? > > I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! > > ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:39:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69A06@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as Luddism. Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like so: "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. **************** A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. It is an ongoing issue from here on in. Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of thinkers and original creators of art. In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of scarcity/abundance. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:58:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: paolo javier Subject: upcoming reading @ the Living Theatre MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hi folks: i'll be reading next Monday nite with Thad Rutkowski, Janice Eidus, and Lee Slonimsky at the Living Theatre. hope you can come! best, Paolo July 16, Monday, 8 p.m. Reading with Janice Eidus, Paolo Javier and Lee Slonimsky. Hosted by Dorothy F. August. Living Theatre, 21 Clinton Street (just below East Houston Street; F train to Second Avenue), Manhattan. $6. www.livingtheatre.org -- http://blog.myspace.com/paolojavier http://www.2ndavepoetry.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:48:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <963614.48743.qm@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Oh come on CA Conrad -- come right out and say what you mean. Don't beat around the bush like that! Marcus On 10 Jul 2007 at 10:25, Thomas savage wrote: > I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were probably wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about it or anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to look elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so what? Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume it anyway. Regards, Tom Savage > > CA Conrad wrote: Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a book signing at the Barnes & Noble > where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past > midnight). > > He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the > occasion. > > While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when would be > the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm going > to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE > http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com > > ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views about the > war? > BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda stuff. > You know? Ah. > ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. > BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. > > That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His > nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! > > And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about > those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was > listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about THE > SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing > SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, but > while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to myself > that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book signing > and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be > blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. > > No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? > Wow! > > Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker about how > incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a rock > star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" > > And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti > Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen other > rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against war, > talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it > better?" > > How about John Lennon? > > What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid > little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and > electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for bullets for > machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A > MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine guns for > Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? > > How is it okay for any American to not know about it? > > How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every single > fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This > misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! > > WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND > KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT THE > NEXT SHIPMENT! > > I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair is > nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at > all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's JUST > joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a > martyr! Worship of a suicide! > > How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy > thought. > > Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is he > voting for? Is he registered? > > I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! > > ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > > > --------------------------------- > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 7/9/2007 5:22 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:06:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Harrison Horton Subject: Dennis Somera's SpOAKlanD MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Deep Oakland is proud to announce the release of Dennis Somera=92s SpOAKlan= D available for download at http://www.deepoakland.org/text?id=3D171.Dennis= Somera uses text as =93a seed for ideas needing manifestation in da world = as performance through his body or better true collaboration with udders.= =94 A member of the Cornelius Cardew Choir, he has performed his spoken-wo= rd-play with a pinch/punch of performance art at Oakland and San Francisco = Bay Area performance venues including the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, = Pusod, SOMArts, and the Oakland Asian Cultural Center. He has been publish= ed in Tinfish, Chain and PomPom.*****Affiliated with neither the tourism no= r better business bureaus, Deep Oakland seeks to create a compendium of int= er-linked images, text and sound that represent the complications and vital= ity of Oakland=92s current moment.This project is ongoing. As the website g= rows, we will continue to solicit and present archival and current material= s from a diverse range of Oakland writers, artists, community leaders and o= rganizations, materials that engage or investigate the city=92s ecology, ec= onomics, politics, development, history and the arts.Our hope is that Deep = Oakland will both serve as a location for conversation to begin, and will e= xtend conversations already in progress, to the point of critical mass wher= e the interconnectivity of the activities of these disparate activists, art= ists and writers becomes visible and begins to positively impact the Oaklan= d community and the world at large.www.deepoakland.org _________________________________________________________________ Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!=A0=A0 http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=3Dchick_wlmailtextlink= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:47:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Filkins Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <963614.48743.qm@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline What an empty comment geared towards fools. Those people. Indeed. On 7/10/07, Thomas savage wrote: > > I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were > probably wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about > it or anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to > look elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so > what? Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume > it anyway. Regards, Tom Savage > > avid Thoreau - Walden, 1854. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:17:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <963614.48743.qm@web31106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I was always told (on the street anyway) that KORN stood for "Keep on running, N____r (an epithet that just had a symbolic burial with a coffin and everything the other day). If this is true, then complaining about ideational content in one of its member's little heads is like complaining that Ronald Reagan's jelly bean jar had too many yellow ones in it. But hey, "Freak on a Leash" is still an okay song... Soul-check me at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...and I'll promise not to head-check you...or headbutt you...unless you like that sort of thing...www.joebrainardspyjamas/blogspot or something like that.... -----Original Message----- From: Thomas savage To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 1:25 pm Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were probably wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about it or anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to look elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so what? Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume it anyway. Regards, Tom Savage CA Conrad wrote: Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a book signing at the Barnes & Noble where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past midnight). He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the occasion. While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when would be the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm going to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views about the war? BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda stuff. You know? Ah. ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about THE SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, but while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to myself that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book signing and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? Wow! Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker about how incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a rock star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen other rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against war, talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it better?" How about John Lennon? What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for bullets for machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine guns for Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? How is it okay for any American to not know about it? How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every single fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT THE NEXT SHIPMENT! I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair is nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's JUST joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a martyr! Worship of a suicide! How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy thought. Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is he voting for? Is he registered? I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:09:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <86ir8s2kr1.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I once sat with Allen Ginsberg at a bissett reading, oh, way back in the early seventies, and Allen heard bill doing his sound, and said he must have learned chanting from some Asians. I said actually no, that's bill. And we all thought it was funny when Kerouac said bill's an Indian. His dad a judge in Nova Scotia and all . . . . On Jul 10, 2007, at 11:09 AM, Dan Waber wrote: > There was that Paris Review interview...so maybe the beats were just > able to successfully wishful think bissett in. > > -- > > Writers at Work: The Paris Review Interviews, Fourth Series, pp > 538-572 > > Poet Aram Saryoyan and Duncan McNaughton accompanied interviewer Ted > Berrigan when he visited Kerouac at his home in Lowell in 1967. > > Kerouac: ...You know who's a great poet? I know who the great poets > are. > > Interviewer: Who? > > Kerouac: Let's see, is it...William Bissette of Vancouver. An Indian > boy. Bill Bissette, or Bisonnette. > > -- > > Regards, > Dan > > mIEKAL aND wrote: >> bill bissett is a beat poet? >> >> On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: >> >>> Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", >>> inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... >>> >>> http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 >>> >>> >>> Gerald S. >>> > > Mr. G. Bowering Okanagan born. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:00:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... Comments: To: editor@pavementsaw.org In-Reply-To: <158720.4929.qm@web83810.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit No, really. Bill has a place in Toronto and a place in Vancouver. For decades when you give him a ride home he gets you to drop him off on a corner and take off before he goes to his place. I used to have an address way up north where he was a short order cook but he doesnt do that any more. It's just that Karl Siegler, is Bill's great champion and also boss of Talonbooks. gb On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:11 PM, David Baratier wrote: > George-- > > That is kind of weak, haven't you known Diane longer than that? I > think you could offer better, but Bill is Canadian so I do not expect > much > from his home land. When are you going to read for me instead of > going to a reds game? > > Anyways Diane, backchannel, I'll find it. > > be well-- dave > > > On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Diane DiPrima wrote: > >> For what it's worth, I knew him back in the day. But I never did >> understand >> what makes "beat" & don't like the term myself. >> >> But does anyone know how to reach Bill Bissett now? > > Contact him through Talonbooks. > > Just Google Talonbooks > > George H. Bowering Wishes your happiness. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:47:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <86ir8s2kr1.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I had a great teacher who told me, when we read _On the Road_, that 'beat' was short for beatitude. Its funny but I can't seem to find anyone else who wants to talk about that but I keep looking. What would Bill Bissett consider beatific I wander? Chris from the place where the trinity has alternatively been known as the beaver, the moose, and the holy goose. Quoting Dan Waber : > There was that Paris Review interview...so maybe the beats were just > able to successfully wishful think bissett in. > > -- > > Writers at Work: The Paris Review Interviews, Fourth Series, pp > 538-572 > > Poet Aram Saryoyan and Duncan McNaughton accompanied interviewer Ted > Berrigan when he visited Kerouac at his home in Lowell in 1967. > > Kerouac: ...You know who's a great poet? I know who the great poets are. > > Interviewer: Who? > > Kerouac: Let's see, is it...William Bissette of Vancouver. An Indian > boy. Bill Bissette, or Bisonnette. > > -- > > Regards, > Dan > > mIEKAL aND wrote: > > bill bissett is a beat poet? > > > > On Jul 9, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Gerald Schwartz wrote: > > > >> Seems the Chemical Brothers have topped UK album charts with "Night", > >> inspired by and with a collaboration with B. Bisset... > >> > >> http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSL0824923720070708 > >> > >> > >> Gerald S. > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:28:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <1184093226.4693d42ae0db8@webmail.nd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 10, 2007, at 11:47 AM, Chris Chapman wrote: > I had a great teacher who told me, when we read _On the Road_, that > 'beat' was > short for beatitude. Its funny but I can't seem to find anyone else > who wants > to talk about that but I keep looking. > Chris Well, that is a pretty standard observation. Kerouac said it; a great number of writers about Kerouac have said it. George "Whip" Bowering A law-abiding driver. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 15:25:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <004d01c7c333$2f28f430$63ae4a4a@yourae066c3a9b> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit C.A. Your rant about that Brian guy is terrific. Good on you. I didn't know there was a rock band called Korn. In fact it was just this year that I heard there was a squaresville poet named Korn. What's with this Korn stuff? That guy Brian's phrase "that kind of stuff" etc is unbvelievably drugged out, TVed out. Yesterday I heard of some hiphop guy named , or maybe it is a group named Bone Thugs, Got uplifting lyrics, yes, here is the revolution, let's make the world better: If you a bitch, me slap you down And fuck you up with dick Because the villanous killer I'm chillin' now with your girl on medick, uh The slimmer the nigga the quicker The trigger unloads on your shit George Hendrik Bowering Always ate his crusts. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 19:22:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: Fwd: flat to rent near montmartre for august In-Reply-To: <3bf622560707101611tc46393do3cb629f6fcf3a358@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline dear list - my friend, scholar and poet Camille PB (http://elgg.net/cpb/weblog), is looking to sub-lease her Paris flat during August. it's a good price and she's eager to help out a needy poet who might need a roof in Paris. cheers Justin Katko ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: camille pb Date: Jul 10, 2007 7:09 PM Subject: Re: flat to rent in montmartre for august Hello, I am willing to rent my flat this August for the whole month. It is located in the neighborhood of Montmartre, a little further north, in the 18th arrondissement. Here is a link to the description that I posted to Craiglist: http://paris.craigslist.org/sub/370374636.html Please request more photos. I will lower the price consequently for people who want to take the whole month: 700 euros all utilities included + wi-fi/adsl internet + free calls to the US and the UK (and almost everywhere else). > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 69 (2007) A Meditation on a Meditation of Frost by Emily Kendal Frey Emily Kendal Frey grew up in Seattle and lives in Jamaica Plain, MA. Recent work appears or is forthcoming in Washington Square Review, New York Quarterly, DIAGRAM, Sawbuck, Word For/ Word, Unpleasant Event Schedule, Coconut, and RealPoetik. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:57:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Tantric Code Language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Tantric Code Language bhagavan aha/ kollaire tthia bola mummunire kakkola ghana kibida ho vajjai karune kiai na rola//(6) tahi baru khajjai gade maana pijjai hale kalinjara paniai dunduru tahi vajjiai//(7) causama kacchuri sihla kappura laiai malaindhana salinja tahi bharu khaiai//(8) premkhana kheta karante sugghasuddha na muniai niramsua amga cadabi tahim ja saraba paniai//(9) malayaje kunduru batai dindima tahin na vajjiai//(10) Bhagavan replied: O! the Bola is located at Kollagiri, the Kakkola at Mummuni. The hand-drum is sounded forcefully; Compassion is affected, not discord. Here we eat meat and drink liquor in large quantities. Hey! Here the worthy ones enter, the unworthy ones are barred. We bring faeces, urine, menstrual blood and semen. Here we eat herbs and human flesh with relish. We move to and fro without consideration of pure or impure. Adorning our limbs with bone-ornaments, here we enter the corpse. In the meeting we perform the sexual union; the untouchable is not rejected here. -- The Concealed Essence of the Hevajara Tantra with the Commentary Yogaratnamala, G.W.. Farrow and I. Menon, trans., II, 4, Seals From the Yogaratnamala Commentary: kollai (Kollagiri): Refers to the Pitha (shrine) of that name. mummuni: Refers to the Ksetra of that name. bola ... kakkola (male sexual organ ... female sexual organ): Indicates the meeting, although they are initially apart, of the yogi and yogini who are characterized by these two organs respectively. kibida (hand-drum): Is the code word for the hand-drum. Farrow and Menon: kakkola - code word for the female sexual organ bola - code work for Vajra, the male sexual organ sandhyabhasa: Tantric Code Language. As examples of sandhyabhasa, the Hevajra Tantra lists about twenty code words. In the Candrakirti's Pradipodyotana commentary on Guhyasamaja Tantra sandhyabhasa is one of the sex ways by which the contents of the tantra are interpreted. The Carya songs of the Mahassidhas are mostly couched in code lnaguage. [...] This code system has been discussed by various eminent scholars. Many of the discussions have been based on the mistranslation of the word sandhyabhasa and what constitutes instances of sandhyabhasa. In our opinion too much of little consequence has been written on this subject. [Sandhyabhasa is intrinsically clear; the authors' use of 'system' in the definition above, is not. I'd like to think that sandhyabhasa mostly moves from inscription to abjection; all of this might well be lost in the descent to English.] Alex Wayman: kunduru (resin) - union of the two kakkola (perfume) - lotus dindima (small drum) - untouchable Agehannanda Bharati: bola(ka) (Tib. bo la) 'gum myrrh' (a) -> vajra (Tib. rdo rje) 'the Absolute' kakkola(ka) (Tib. kakko la) n.p. of an aromatic plant, and of the perfume made from the plant (a) -> padma (Tib. padma) 'lotus' Bharati quoting Shahidullah from his edition of the Dohakosa and the caryas: padma 'lotus' -> (e) bhaga 'vulva' vajra 'thunderbolt', the absolute (e) -> linga 'phallus' Bharati quoting Eliade: vajra 'thunderbolt' -> linga, sunya 'voidness,' 'the void,' vacuite http://www.asondheim.org/TantricCodeLanguage.txt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 00:19:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <86ir8s2kr1.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit i hadn't heard about kerouac calling bissett a great poet. interesting. bill has travelled across canada countless times doing readings for forty some-odd years and publishes one or two books per year with talonbooks. and many people do indeed think of him as a great poet. yet he has never won the canadian literary prize. that seems to be controlled by other types of poets. a pity. for canadian poetry. the official response seems to be "he's still doing the same old thing he's done since the sixties." i've heard this from several poets. in truth, he is and he isn't. at one point, i read about a dozen of his books ranging from the sixties through the eighties. what i found was that the books just kept getting better and better. in particular, the books from the late eighties include erm sort of prose poems, narrative prose poems that could be several pages long, usually about his life, that were, to me, the most interesting works and the ones that turned the books into books rather than collections of individual poems. they are more nuanced and given to shades of gray and deeper analysis than the lyric work. yet he never seems to read those sorts of poems in his readings across the country. his readings are his bread and butter, i think, and he tends to go with shorter stuff that can be counted on to rouse the audience. that's probably why many people think he's still doing 'the same old thing'. it's as though his readings are his job and he rarely messes with the tried and true at his job. i organized a couple of readings for him and they were always packed and high energy. i asked him to read a couple of those longer works at one of them, and he did, very well; he expressed surprise that i asked him to read those, said he rarely does, and is rarely asked to do so. he is appreciated by a young audience in canada, unlike many a poet. it's a pity for canadian poetry that his work has not been more influential in canada. he ekes out a living as a poet doing readings and selling his books but i don't think there has been much financial help to him apart from those sorts of gigs. yet he's persevered at it for decades. for years he ran his own press: blewointment. bpNichol called him "canada's best political poet". so it's great to see that some of his work is in the chemical brother's single that topped the UK charts. am looking forward to listening to that ditty, at some point. i don't think his talonbooks books make it into the usa much. this seems to be a problem for canadian publishers in general. ja http://vispo.com ps: he helped me get a terrific apartment in victoria once. his daughter ooljah was my landlady for five years. then the building burned down. electrical fire that started in a business downstairs. a fireman saved my computer. usually it's the cat or the baby. this time the little clone with all my writing on it. no one was injured, thank goodness. > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Dan Waber > Sent: July 10, 2007 11:10 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... > > > There was that Paris Review interview...so maybe the beats were just > able to successfully wishful think bissett in. > > -- > > Writers at Work: The Paris Review Interviews, Fourth Series, pp > 538-572 > > Poet Aram Saryoyan and Duncan McNaughton accompanied interviewer Ted > Berrigan when he visited Kerouac at his home in Lowell in 1967. > > Kerouac: ...You know who's a great poet? I know who the great poets are. > > Interviewer: Who? > > Kerouac: Let's see, is it...William Bissette of Vancouver. An Indian > boy. Bill Bissette, or Bisonnette. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:30:17 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The idea that 19th century photograph--indeed, any photography until very recently--was better than painting at what painting is trying to do is simply ridiculous. Think about color, for a start. Think about scale, and the amount of detail large scale allows for. Any decent hack academic painter in the 19th century could show more about the appearance of things than any photograph could until the current era of the big-scale print (Gursky, Struth, etc.). The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil--which painting could never be. Jim Andrews wrote: Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as Luddism. Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like so: "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. **************** A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. It is an ongoing issue from here on in. Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of thinkers and original creators of art. In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of scarcity/abundance. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:28:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: (Jim Andrews's message of "Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:39:14 -0700") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jim, Thanks for this, I'm a longtime fan of Clay Shirky's writing, and find your own thoughts on digital writing to be among my favorites, as well. I would add a couple of responses to Kenny's piece, and to your responses to it. > Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned > into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that > someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the > several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; I think part of the reason the art world fell out of love with net art is purely economic--like the music industry they are struggling to find the saleable product in a world of infinite perfect copying. Scarcity/abundance, as you've pointed out. I also do not believe that net art is the province of programmers, not artists. There are likely more programmers involved in net art than in other forms of art, sure, but there are also many artists who have found ways of making net art that don't require them to be 50/50 programmer/artist. Collaboration is one method, tweaking/re-arranging existing code is another, and using complex software to do things for which it was never originally intended. There are also very talented programmers who do not identify themselves as artists, but whose work probably deserves recognition as art. Here's more Clay Shirky, a ten minute keynote address, this time he's talking about love as a predictor of technological success. http://conversationhub.com/2007/07/10/video-clay-shirky-on-love-internet-style/ He closes with this quote: "In the past, we would do little things for love, but big things required money. Now we can do big things for love." To me, that is very real and massive shift in what's possible for art. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 07:53:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: June's $100 winner at vispoets.com Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the reward for interestingness monthly event*, the winner for June is: David-Baptiste Chirot for his contributions for the month. To note one particular image, please see: Screaming Wall 084** Congratulations to David-Baptiste, there's $100 worth of Luna Bisonte*** publications on their way to you. Enjoy! Thanks to everyone who uploaded images to the Gallery in June. Keep uploading new images for your chance to win. *http://vispoets.com/index.php?showtopic=481 **http://vispoets.com/index.php?automodule=gallery&req=si&img=1820 ***http://www.johnmbennett.net/Luna_Bisonte_Prods_Catalog.html Regards, Dan PS: if you have a press that publishes visual poetry and are able to send "$100 worth of publications, your choice, including postage" to future winners, please email me with your interest. --- Our members have posted a total of 1446 images and made 191 comments. Total Gallery Size: 269.29mb Total Image Views: 22921 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 04:54:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: Original Digital Poetry/rubBEings/Language In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for your reflections on the relations of the rubBEings to concrete, language, the physical/mental, conflict, translation, reading, writing, speaking, and much else. Yes, all these issues do seem to be raised in your work. My experience of your rubBEings is limited to viewing the bitmap images of them on your blog ( http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com ). How big are the physical pieces, typically? What sorts of materials do you use? You mention clay and spraypaint. Also, how do you think of the blog in its presentation of the work? And versus presentation of the physical objects. How have you presented the physical works? Are there ways you'd like to present the works on the net that you haven't been able to do? Or is the blog the ideal way, for you, to present them on the net? ja? http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:17:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan W. is on the money I think, exposing this fallacy that only programmers are interested in, or make "net art" or that it's somehow exclusively their domain. And Barry's post refuting "photography creates a 'better' picture, painting is now done" is right on. If anything it just added a new level of visual representation for painters to work in separately and make their own, or to combine with their more plastic creations. And it offered a method of "holding the image" for those painters who chose to remain painters, and allowed them to see phenomena they wanted to paint but which were too quick for the human eye (ex. Muybridge's visual essays explicating fast movement in living things). Whenever one decides to write a totalizing theory essay as kenny g. has apparently done, you end up with the sort of gross oversimplifications we're hearing secondhand here...painting had to go all fuzzy because photographs got all sharp....that's just silly....it also implies the singular purpose of all painting throughout history was only the attempt to achieve visual verisimilitude...whatever that is, if it even exists in a way which transcends subjectivity (because my pictures are usually colored by emotions anyway)....which again is preposterous.... ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:05:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kevin thurston Subject: Re: Original Digital Poetry/rubBEings/Language In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline hey, jim et al while not specifically on the blog angle, i interviewed dbc at great length here: http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide2.html also, for full disclosure, i am his agent, and i represent god-fearing rock-stars as well On 7/11/07, Jim Andrews wrote: > > Thanks for your reflections on the relations of the rubBEings to concrete, > language, the physical/mental, conflict, translation, reading, writing, > speaking, and much else. Yes, all these issues do seem to be raised in > your > work. > > My experience of your rubBEings is limited to viewing the bitmap images of > them on your blog ( http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com ). How big are > the physical pieces, typically? What sorts of materials do you use? You > mention clay and spraypaint. > > Also, how do you think of the blog in its presentation of the work? And > versus presentation of the physical objects. How have you presented the > physical works? > > Are there ways you'd like to present the works on the net that you haven't > been able to do? Or is the blog the ideal way, for you, to present them on > the net? > > ja? > http://vispo.com > -- KEVIN IS RUNNING LATE TODAY BUT WILL BE IN http://fuckinglies.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:06:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Marcus Bales Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <29953.78456.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On 11 Jul 2007 at 9:30, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting > was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact > that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it > pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil > --which painting could never be. This seems to radically contradict the fundamental post-modern notion, of which unless I mis-read you you are a proponent, that all we know can only be the result of habit and language -- that post-modern notion that there is no vera out there for anything to be an icona of. Shouldn't you be arguing that the painter is a _better_ representer of what he or she imagines he or she perceives through habit and language than any photograph could ever be? Isn't the fundamental notion of post-modern thought that of the Third Umpire in the old joke, "Some may be balls and some may be strikes, but they ain't nuthin' til I call 'em"? Marcus > > Jim Andrews wrote: > Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on > Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The > responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the > responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common > effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to > consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as > Luddism. > > Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and > http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring > Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and > the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. > > Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( > http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like > so: > > "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, > writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting > upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what > the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had > to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, > painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an > unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine > itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." > > The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with > responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. > > **************** > > A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. > > Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual > abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going > away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. > It is an ongoing issue from here on in. > > Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with > video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology > and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains > of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. > > Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned > into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that > someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the > several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the > most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers > is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous > machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, > flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, > that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers > are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing > *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought > about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly > artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that > is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as > offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. > > Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, > particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative > interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of > thinkers and original creators of art. > > In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of > scarcity/abundance. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 7/9/2007 5:22 PM > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:59:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New Jake Berry poem Comments: To: british-poets@jiscmail.ac.uk, wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu A new Jake Berry poem is at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Berry%20poem.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:24:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Atlanta poetry event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit in one week: southerners & visitors mark yr calendars Every other month, the Atlanta Poets Group presents: Language Harm, the South’s premier poetry performance event. This month: Sound Poetry Do you imagine Schwitters performing the Blue Yodel as you drift off to sleep? Do you experience auditory hallucinations---perhaps half-digested foreign words accompanied by donkey grunts? Whatever it is you're used to hearing, you probably won't hear it here. Or maybe you will! Join us for a nite where sound shamelessly takes precedence over meaning until the two collapse into an epiphany of metaverbal pyrogenic ekstasis. Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:00 pm $5 at: Eyedrum 290 Martin Luther King, Jr. Drive Atlanta ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:28:41 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Numbskull quote of the day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Some reading experts say that urging kids to read fiction in general = might be a misplaced goal. 'If you look at what most people need to read = for their occupation, it=92s zero narrative,' said Michael L. Kamil, a = professor of education at Stanford University. 'I don=92t want to deny = that you should be reading stories and literature. But we=92ve = overemphasized it,' he said. Instead, children need to learn to read for = information, Mr. Kamil said, something they can practice while reading = on the Internet, for example." New York Times, 11 July 07 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:50:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: flat to rent near montmartre for august In-Reply-To: <3bf622560707101622kaa198bi8bedccc35cd9dea4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline have fun you two wherever you go and whatever you do On 7/10/07, jUStin!katKO wrote: > dear list - > > my friend, scholar and poet Camille PB (http://elgg.net/cpb/weblog), is > looking to sub-lease her Paris flat during August. it's a good price and > she's eager to help out a needy poet who might need a roof in Paris. > > cheers > Justin Katko > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: camille pb > Date: Jul 10, 2007 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: flat to rent in montmartre for august > > Hello, > I am willing to rent my flat this August for the whole month. It is located > in the neighborhood of Montmartre, a little further north, in the 18th > arrondissement. Here is a link to the description that I posted to > Craiglist: > http://paris.craigslist.org/sub/370374636.html > > Please request more photos. > > I will lower the price consequently for people who want to take the whole > month: 700 euros all utilities included + wi-fi/adsl internet + free calls > to the US and the UK (and almost everywhere else). > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 08:21:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <29953.78456.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit While I somewhat agree with this statement, I wish to add that there are still many wonderful realistic painters out there who continue to add something to what photography can now provide. One who immediately comes to mind is the wonderful Yvonne Jacquette. Anyone who has seen a show of her magnificent paintings understands that there is still room for realistic painting to explore and pursue. Barry Schwabsky wrote: The idea that 19th century photograph--indeed, any photography until very recently--was better than painting at what painting is trying to do is simply ridiculous. Think about color, for a start. Think about scale, and the amount of detail large scale allows for. Any decent hack academic painter in the 19th century could show more about the appearance of things than any photograph could until the current era of the big-scale print (Gursky, Struth, etc.). The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil--which painting could never be. Jim Andrews wrote: Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as Luddism. Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like so: "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. **************** A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. It is an ongoing issue from here on in. Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of thinkers and original creators of art. In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of scarcity/abundance. ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:10:31 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <46949DAA.27403.1A3C0B1D@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Where did I say that? This seems to radically contradict the fundamental post-modern notion, of which unless I mis-read you you are a proponent, that all we know can only be the result of habit and language -- that post-modern notion that there is no vera out there for anything to be an icona of. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:13:22 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <341764.87129.qm@web31110.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Of course! And don't forget Rackstraw Downes, Catherine Murphy, Lois Dodd...to speak only of some of the elders. Thomas savage wrote: While I somewhat agree with this statement, I wish to add that there are still many wonderful realistic painters out there who continue to add something to what photography can now provide. One who immediately comes to mind is the wonderful Yvonne Jacquette. Anyone who has seen a show of her magnificent paintings understands that there is still room for realistic painting to explore and pursue. Barry Schwabsky wrote: The idea that 19th century photograph--indeed, any photography until very recently--was better than painting at what painting is trying to do is simply ridiculous. Think about color, for a start. Think about scale, and the amount of detail large scale allows for. Any decent hack academic painter in the 19th century could show more about the appearance of things than any photograph could until the current era of the big-scale print (Gursky, Struth, etc.). The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil--which painting could never be. Jim Andrews wrote: Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as Luddism. Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like so: "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. **************** A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. It is an ongoing issue from here on in. Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of thinkers and original creators of art. In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of scarcity/abundance. ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:12:06 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Marcus, I love that old joke however misapplied--there are several definitions of "postmodern" (to say nothing of postmodernism) but the particular point you're making has its roots in modernity--specifically phenomenology. Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: Marcus Bales >Sent: Jul 11, 2007 9:06 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art > >On 11 Jul 2007 at 9:30, Barry Schwabsky wrote: >> The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting >> was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact >> that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it >> pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil >> --which painting could never be. > >This seems to radically contradict the fundamental post-modern notion, of >which unless I mis-read you you are a proponent, that all we know can only be >the result of habit and language -- that post-modern notion that there is no >vera out there for anything to be an icona of. > >Shouldn't you be arguing that the painter is a _better_ representer of what he >or she imagines he or she perceives through habit and language than any >photograph could ever be? Isn't the fundamental notion of post-modern >thought that of the Third Umpire in the old joke, "Some may be balls and >some may be strikes, but they ain't nuthin' til I call 'em"? > >Marcus > > >> >> Jim Andrews wrote: >> Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on >> Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The >> responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the >> responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common >> effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to >> consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as >> Luddism. >> >> Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and >> http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring >> Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and >> the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. >> >> Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( >> http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like >> so: >> >> "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, >> writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting >> upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what >> the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had >> to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, >> painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an >> unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine >> itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." >> >> The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with >> responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. >> >> **************** >> >> A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. >> >> Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual >> abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going >> away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. >> It is an ongoing issue from here on in. >> >> Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with >> video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology >> and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains >> of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. >> >> Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned >> into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that >> someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the >> several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the >> most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers >> is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous >> machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, >> flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, >> that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers >> are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing >> *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought >> about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly >> artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that >> is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as >> offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. >> >> Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, >> particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative >> interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of >> thinkers and original creators of art. >> >> In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of >> scarcity/abundance. >> >> ja >> http://vispo.com >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 7/9/2007 5:22 PM >> Tyrone Williams ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:23:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christopher Leland Winks Subject: Re: Numbskull quote of the day In-Reply-To: <016201c7c3d8$8bbcffc0$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This summons up memories of an old populist adage=3A =22An expert is a s= onofabitch from out of town=2E=22 Information isn=27t knowledge=2C either -- one reason why the so-called = =22information society=22 and =22dumbing down=22 go hand in hand=2E ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Joel Weishaus =3Cweishaus=40PDX=2EEDU=3E Date=3A Wednesday=2C July 11=2C 2007 1=3A03 pm Subject=3A Numbskull quote of the day To=3A POETICS=40LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU =3E =22Some reading experts say that urging kids to read fiction in gene= ral = =3E might be a misplaced goal=2E =27If you look at what most people need= to = =3E read for their occupation=2C it=92s zero narrative=2C=27 said Michae= l L=2E = =3E Kamil=2C a professor of education at Stanford University=2E =27I don= =92t want = =3E to deny that you should be reading stories and literature=2E But we=92= ve = =3E overemphasized it=2C=27 he said=2E Instead=2C children need to learn= to read = =3E for information=2C Mr=2E Kamil said=2C something they can practice w= hile = =3E reading on the Internet=2C for example=2E=22 New York Times=2C 11 Ju= ly 07 =3E ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:32:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: translations at jacket Comments: To: british-irish-poets@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, poetryetc@jiscmail.ac.uk, UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A couple of paragraphs of commentary, and a group=20 of poems by Jos=E9 Mart=ED, translated by yours truly. http://jacketmagazine.com/33/weiss-marti.shtml ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:01:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE On Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Just a minor point - It's very clear what the early work is book; 'das We= lt' > is the subject which is then considered in relation to logical propositio= ns > taken in various sets; the Sheffer stroke is the fundamental process here= =2E I > read the TLP when I was 19 and have been with it on and off since; it's t= he > final statement of a kind of 19th-century strunctural- ism that appeared = in > Hertz's mechanics, etc. In any case, yes, it helps to know Frege and the > others - Whitehead as well, but that's true of almost all philosophy; it'= s > not ab nihilo. To look at Derrida for example, it helps to know Hegel, > Levinas, Sartre, Heidegger of course, etc. etc. Re: The Vienna circle - h= ere > W. pretty much stands on his own although Carnap can't hurt. That's certainly one way of reading TLP, and it's very standard from an analytic philosophy point of view, very much in line with Anscombe's Introduction to The Tractatus and Russells introduction to the book. It is = certainly the way that someone with a commitment to a logical atomism of some kind is going to read it. To that extent it's a valid interpretation of a very difficult book, and I wouldn't= say it was incorrect. However, I do disagree with this reading. I don't take the subject of the b= ook to be the world. The world is mentioned briefly in the opening propositions= , from which wittgenstein moves quickly through his peculiar understanding of= the nature of facts and on to the matter of what really interests him, and= what the actual subject of the tractatus on my reading, and that is the st= ructure of propositions and what can and cannot be expressed by them. I alw= ays try to keep in mind a couple of things when reading it: 1.) the comment= s wittgenstein made about his purpose to Russell while he was a POW in ital= y and they were discussing either the proto-tractatus dictated to moore Or = TLP manuscript, i don't recall which, to which russell responded that W had= become a mystic 2.) the comments made to non-philosopher friends and poten= tial editors, particularly his statement that TLP consisted of two parts, t= he first part containing everything he had written, and the second part eve= rything he had not written, and the second part being far more important 3.= ) his statements in the introduction that his wondered if only those who'd = thought similar thoughts would understand him, and the other statement that= his purpose was primarily ethical and that he thought he had shown how lit= tle had been done by resolving the problems of philosophy. The problem is if you take him at his word here, that the TLP is a ladder t= o be kicked away when you get to the top, if you understand it, it's very d= ifficult to say what you understand if wittgenstein is right if what is und= erstood must be passed over in silence. > I don't see where W. had the 'prior conviction' you mention but then I do= n't > remember all the details of his life. reading his letters, he pretty much tells everybody but Frege that they won= 't understand it before they read it. He eventually comes to the conclusion= that Frege didn't get it either, and I beleive that he was a little bit ap= palled at the understanding that Moritz Schlick and Co. seemed to have of i= t. It's notable that it took Frank Ramsey coming and visiting W in the vill= age where he was teaching and spending days going over the tractatus before= Wittgenstein was able to 1.) recognize in ramsey someone with a mind he fe= lt worth taking seriously and 2.) from that and ramsey's willingness to fol= low wittgenstein through his argument in TLP, take seriously Ramsey's objec= tions and realize that TLP might not be the last word after all. What i thi= nk it illustrates more than anything is how wittgenstein's personal perfect= ionism and the attendant sense of superiority that it brought with it was a= s much an obstacle to Wittgenstein being understood, and to him being able = to make himself understood, as was the difficulty and strangeness of his su= bjects. > > With the Investigations the situation is very different. I don't think th= e > Principia Mathematica was really detailed there; it was on the TLP, and > already of course the paradoxes of mathematics destroyed the crystalline > order in terms of a constructivist axiomatics - of course you'd have to > believe that proof theory's somehow connected to ontology for the dstruc- > tion to occur. I tend to read both the so-called "private language" argument, as well as t= he comments on intention and vaguness both in PI as well as Zettel, and in = the foundational remarks in PI beginning at PI 13 and picking up steam at P= I 38 as definitely engaged with the ideas of the logical atomists and the p= roblems with what russell took to calling "the philosophy of logical analys= is". > Your point about universal grammar is really interesting; I do wonder tho= ugh > if one can make a leap from language games etc. to a probmeatizing of suc= h a > grammar. They're different epistemologies; I don't think (I may be very > wrong here) that universal grammar implies exact meaning and denotation -= if > anything it seems to me it would deal with the structures underlying > language games, since, when such a game is played, as it always is, the > participants in a dialog almost always understand implicitly what is mean= t. > This would be a substructural affair, not an affair of defini- tion. In > other words, I don't think the opposition you set up is really necessaril= y > there. The point of language games is that the function as a standin for a languag= e so that we can look at a limited case without taking the language holisti= cally, which is Wittgensteins view of what a language is. There's a common = error that get's repeated so often by people who really ought to know bette= r (richard rorty and hilary putnam just to name two prominent examples) tha= t it becomes taken to be a valid reading of Wittgenstein although it really= isn't. The error is to think that wittgenstein considers language games co= nstituent parts of language, and that what wittgenstein thinks a language i= s is the set of all language games played by speakers of that language. Thi= s isn't correct at all. The process of imagining a language game is a metho= d for trying to liberate the mind from the philosophical dead ends one gets= into when we start asking questions about what such and such a word means.= To this end it is often necessary to imagine language games that are simil= ar to ours but with crucial differences. For example, the language game of = the shopkeeper in PI 1. Nobody actually uses names or numbers or color samp= les in that way, part of the reason imagining the language game as W descri= bes it is to show that Augustine's picture of how language works is a littl= e bit ridiculous. =20 Where the idea of Universal Grammar runs into trouble is due to the fact th= at it's relatively easy to imagine not only language games which did not fi= t into whatever framework Prof. Chomsky believes should be the essence of U= niversal Grammar this week, but that it's equally simple to imagine how suc= h a language would be taught and how it would be used. And then of course, = there's the fact that these sorts of languages actually do exist. There's b= een some popular coverage recently of Daniel Everett's work on Piraha, whic= h doesn't have either color words or a grammatical structure for recursion,= both of whcih are problems for chomsky's UG, since the number of things wh= ich can be taken as common to all languages is rapidly dwindling.=20 But even so, it should be possible to construct a language that's perfectly= intelligible and doesn't have any sort of universal grammar beyond some ba= sic things that are determined more by the world than they are by anything = specific about human beings, the presence of subjects and objects in senten= ces, adjectives nouns and verbs, that sort of thing. And really, this is wh= at Wittgenstein is getting at with his more obtuse statements about "forms = of life" and the possibility of translating lionese. The strictures placed = on our languages aren't grammars, but our grammars are largely determined b= y what we are and how we interact with the world. Which, I think, is enough= to solve the problems that UG is proposed to solve without speculating all= manner of root level grammar that is subject to the problems raised by the= Private language argument. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 11:20:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: John Wieners, A BOOK OF PROPHECIES In-Reply-To: <016201c7c3d8$8bbcffc0$0300a8c0@Weishaus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I posted this at the Amazon site but thought I should post it here as well, just trying to get the word out on an amazing "new" book. Excuse the cross posting (is that what that means????) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think even those of us who love John Wieners' poetry have been taken aback, in fact bowled over by the greatness of his hitherto unknown BOOK OF PROPHECIES, written in the 1969-1971 period right after NERVES and preceding BEHIND THE STATE CAPITOL OR CINCINATTI PIKE, but whatever, we're all happy now. Halfway through the book you can trace the mark, so obivous it feels like an actual physical thing, perhaps a torso in marble missing an arm or two, where Wieners must have decided that the lyric style of NERVES, ASYLUM POEMS, etc., just wasn't going to cut it for him any more and it was time to move onto the "derangements" of his later style, the accent on language's materiality, the "cut up" effects, the slide into a slippery first person multiplicity. It's fascinating just from a biographical point of view, and in effect what you get is a whole mini-anthology of two very different strains in Wieners' writing, and this BOOK OF PROPHECIES provides wonderful example of both styles. The other night there was a launch for this book at New College here in San Francisco, and as reader after reader took the stage to read from this book, we were struck by how many of these poems, which we had never heard before, had the force and the "click" of what amounts to instant classics. They were new to us, and yet we felt we had known them forever. As it happens, a few poems will be already familiar to you from this book, as Wieners published them separately or in magazines and they wound up in the old Black Sparrow SELECTED POEMS, only now in their full context they make sense, and accrue a patina or lustre of richness which they lacked before, appealing as they were in their abandoned state. The book itself is physically beautiful, and the young Boston-bnased poet Michael Carr has done a fantastic service by providing this transcription of a "lost" Wieners notebook--replete with some scans of the actual holograph--with a fine sensitivity to Wieners' variegated methods of punctuation, spelling, line break, revision, and so forth. (At the end of 1991 the notebook itself was bought by Kent State Special Collections in Ohio, where Carr "discovered" it.) The poet Jim Dunn, who was close to Wieners in the final years of JW's life, has written an introduction that might be a model for this sort of thing, a memoir and an appreciation in one, in which he doesn't seek to shield the reader from the immense difficulties of reading Wieners, nor does he romanticize Wieners' psychological and physical ruin. "I died no one/ as I once felt I had/ to be someone." He is the poet oh heartbreak, and the shadow figure enslaved by the more vigorous and together figures in his life, like Olson or Creeley, feeling himself hardly human in his pale remnants of a life. Both shamed and inspired, as well, by the superhuman, glamorous Hollywood actresses and female artists he had glimpsed on screen, or met in "real life," from Jean Seberg and Barbara Stanwyck to nico and Nell Rice, Grace Hartigan and Phyllis Webb. A BOOK OF PROPHECIES begins, eerily enough, with the single poem, "2007," a Blakean, ecstatic prediction of a moment tragically removed from our own, his vision of Aquarius in "full flowers" and "music string and forms of verse controlled symbolism." The poems don't always work, and a couple of them dangle sadly into a ludic space, but the best of them are among the greatest poems Wieners ever wrote, and that's saying something. At the launch I read "Sexual Despair," nearly made myself cry out loud with repressed longing and hardcore sex tension. "I need you, my little son/ / to be beside me in bed/ jerking your meat and/ smoking hash-hish/ /What will the future bring/ this fear ling-/ ers every day." Well, as you can see, all I am saying is, this is a signal event for poetry and a rare opportunity to re-assess the work of an authentic lyric genius. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:32:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <46949DAA.27403.1A3C0B1D@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Even though it's a discussion of painting it ends up back in linguistics, I think....(not saying it's composed of language though, not going nominalist, i still think the world is first..."blind faith?") if we are talking "vera icona," that is.?And back to Wittgenstein we go with the question of ultimate subjectivity...or verifiable objectivity. Even if you use the alleged ultimate verisimilitude of trompe l'oeil as "test case"?(the classic stories from antiquity--pre-urban legends,amusing--of painters so good birds flew to their fruit, or painted monsters frightened people to death) we still only know people are confusing the confected image for the natural image...still doesn't let one know if they are seeing the same thing ...the imagined "same" image"....if my red is your yellow and your yellow is my red, we won't have any problems believing we are talking about?the same things when we speak...even though we aren't...hence, the amusing anecdotes probably spurious about el greco's astigmatism...wouldn't he still paint un-elongated figures to match his lenses' deformation? yet it's comforting and generally useful not to think like that if one has a job in the Lebenswelt....but Veronica's Veil was a blood image right? not light? i guess blood is metaphorically standing in for?light here? but no definitive photo of any object exists of course. no such fair realism exists.?"an image is not an object"...wasn't that in a marjorie welish poem...or was that?a crib from Witt or someone she used? so true image?is a misnomer, no?? -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Bales To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:06 am Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art On 11 Jul 2007 at 9:30, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting > was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact > that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it > pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil > --which painting could never be. This seems to radically contradict the fundamental post-modern notion, of which unless I mis-read you you are a proponent, that all we know can only be the result of habit and language -- that post-modern notion that there is no vera out there for anything to be an icona of. Shouldn't you be arguing that the painter is a _better_ representer of what he or she imagines he or she perceives through habit and language than any photograph could ever be? Isn't the fundamental notion of post-modern thought that of the Third Umpire in the old joke, "Some may be balls and some may be strikes, but they ain't nuthin' til I call 'em"? Marcus > > Jim Andrews wrote: > Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on > Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The > responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the > responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common > effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to > consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as > Luddism. > > Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and > http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring > Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and > the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. > > Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( > http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like > so: > > "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, > writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting > upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what > the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had > to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, > painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an > unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine > itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." > > The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with > responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. > > **************** > > A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. > > Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual > abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going > away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. > It is an ongoing issue from here on in. > > Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with > video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology > and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains > of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. > > Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned > into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that > someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the > several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the > most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers > is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous > machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, > flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, > that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers > are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing > *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought > about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly > artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that > is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as > offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. > > Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, > particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative > interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of > thinkers and original creators of art. > > In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of > scarcity/abundance. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 7/9/2007 5:22 PM > ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:37:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <46949DAA.27403.1A3C0B1D@marcus.designerglass.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Although I think I reverse-engineered the Welish quote...I think it's the other way around?...."an object is not an image"...or i may be imaging it...i'm not near my books now...seem to recall this being in her book out from the univ of ga., can't think of the name right now....it had a lot of meditations on the image and the art of painting...big surprise considering the source.... -----Original Message----- From: Marcus Bales To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 9:06 am Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art On 11 Jul 2007 at 9:30, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting > was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact > that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it > pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil > --which painting could never be. This seems to radically contradict the fundamental post-modern notion, of which unless I mis-read you you are a proponent, that all we know can only be the result of habit and language -- that post-modern notion that there is no vera out there for anything to be an icona of. Shouldn't you be arguing that the painter is a _better_ representer of what he or she imagines he or she perceives through habit and language than any photograph could ever be? Isn't the fundamental notion of post-modern thought that of the Third Umpire in the old joke, "Some may be balls and some may be strikes, but they ain't nuthin' til I call 'em"? Marcus > > Jim Andrews wrote: > Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on > Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The > responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the > responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common > effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to > consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as > Luddism. > > Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and > http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring > Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and > the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. > > Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( > http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like > so: > > "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, > writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting > upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what > the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had > to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, > painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an > unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine > itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." > > The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with > responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. > > **************** > > A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. > > Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual > abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going > away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. > It is an ongoing issue from here on in. > > Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with > video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology > and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains > of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. > > Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned > into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that > someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the > several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the > most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers > is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous > machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, > flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, > that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers > are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing > *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought > about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly > artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that > is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as > offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. > > Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, > particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative > interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of > thinkers and original creators of art. > > In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of > scarcity/abundance. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/893 - Release Date: 7/9/2007 5:22 PM > ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:39:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <86abu3xjqm.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Barry, Jim, For the sake of economy of e-mailing, I will combine two responses. "The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting was (byt maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact that the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it pictures, to be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil--which painting could never be." Barry, that is exactly what I say In The Peripheral Space, a "thereness," which constitutes the underlying epistomology of phptpgraphy, its god, so to speak. Without that quality the photographic image is meaningless. The existence of that quality of "thereness" is exactly what Alan Sondheim was objecting to in my essay, he assering that every photograph is "a setup," not independently posed. I would also like to refer to Keckler's "[photography] allowed them [painters] to see phenomena they wanted to paint but which were too quick for the human eye." Even though on one level a painter can put more details into a painting, a photograph records things which the photographer "does not see." It is in that respect that the pose [anything before the lens] is independent, a record of the "unconscious" of the time/moment the photo was taken, provided the viewer of the photograph is able to assert, discovers a new way of looking. The Peripheral Space is about a new way of looking which involves putting aside the photographer, his focus (which reprents the "consciousness" of the moment the photo was taken) and developing a dialogue between the viewer and the subject, the pose. Digital manipulation does undermine the Platonic essence of thereness which pre-digital photography, one assumes, contains. It is the virtue of Alan analysis (which I hate to admit has potency to it but does not refute my analysis) to point that manipulation of the original pose (not only the editing in the dark room) was always part of photography. My assertion is that digital photography revels in this technical prowess and doing so turns photography into something else. Jim, Of course in our day everything must finally confront the reality of the computer, both in the manifacture/creation of images (from photo op to art, etc.) to the overwhelming production of information. First observation: image and information are not the same thing. Image says nothing but seduces. Therefore, an analysis, a deeper understanding of seduction must become, in our time, both a political and artistic activity. (This related partly to another thread in this list on Wittgenstein and metaphysics, the legitimacy of metaphysics. Metaphysics is indispensable in analyzing and fighting seduction.) Information can be true or false, therefore, legitimate (in first analysis) within the realm of empirical activity. But abundance changes everything. As far as I am aware, most observations on the abundance the net creates are approached from the point of view of production -basically how much more information we have, etc. Relatively little has been said about the crisis in reception this abundance creates. To use an analogy, a classical legal trick to obfuscate is to throw everything including the kitchen sink at the asker for information. I will give one relatively modest example, within the purview of our own activities. In the early days of blogging, I used to follow more or less all the blogs I can get my hands on, following in a intimate fashion the daily thoughts, their ebbs and flows, of the owner of the blog. Unless specifically pointed to, with rare exceptions, today I follow hardly any. I do not know how common my experience is; but, in my case, the abundance of blogs resulted to my reading them less seriously. The above point is separate from the virtues or defect of the blog as a net form. One fact is clear. Blogs were not created by poets, but initially by creators of web sites to attract more visitors. In the poliitical domain, blogs (and u-tube) turned out to be open, explosive forces with real impact on political process -a kind of free, mudracking press or 18th century broadsides. But in poetry, it seems to me, its impact has been towards insularity or basically authoritarian structures. Why is that so, what does it say about us as a community or poetry as an activity? In my view, among poets, the nonluddites which I assume most people in this list are, there has been a noncritical embrace of every new technological option thrown in our direction. I am not claiming that one should wish to go to a pre-lapsarian, pre-computer time; or that all the artistic and political possibilities the computer offers -and they are mind-boggilingly many- should not be pursued without "making an automobile in the shake of a horse carriage." But poetry, at least in my view, should contain skepticism; that's what wit is. I think that skepticism -at least in matters concerning the net- does not exist in enough "abundance" among us poets. Ciao, Murat On 7/11/07, Dan Waber wrote: > > Jim, > > Thanks for this, I'm a longtime fan of Clay Shirky's writing, and find > your own thoughts on digital writing to be among my favorites, as > well. I would add a couple of responses to Kenny's piece, and to your > responses to it. > > > Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it > turned > > into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible > that > > someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the > > several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; > > I think part of the reason the art world fell out of love with net art > is purely economic--like the music industry they are struggling to > find the saleable product in a world of infinite perfect > copying. Scarcity/abundance, as you've pointed out. > > I also do not believe that net art is the province of programmers, not > artists. There are likely more programmers involved in net art than in > other forms of art, sure, but there are also many artists who have > found ways of making net art that don't require them to be 50/50 > programmer/artist. Collaboration is one method, tweaking/re-arranging > existing code is another, and using complex software to do things for > which it was never originally intended. > > There are also very talented programmers who do not identify > themselves as artists, but whose work probably deserves recognition as > art. > > Here's more Clay Shirky, a ten minute keynote address, this time he's > talking about love as a predictor of technological success. > > > http://conversationhub.com/2007/07/10/video-clay-shirky-on-love-internet-style/ > He closes with this quote: > > "In the past, we would do little things for love, but big things > required money. Now we can do big things for love." > > To me, that is very real and massive shift in what's possible for art. > > Regards, > Dan > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:50:04 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: John Wieners, A BOOK OF PROPHECIES In-Reply-To: <6446.216.36.74.210.1184178047.squirrel@webmail.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I always thought it meant posting when one's in a bad mood. Hal "Then there are a number of things one googles or does not google." after Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 11, 2007, at 1:20 PM, Kevin Killian wrote: > Excuse the cross posting (is that what that means????) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:52:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Tantric Code Language In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit kokakola On Jul 10, 2007, at 10:57 PM, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Tantric Code Language > > > bhagavan aha/ > kollaire tthia bola mummunire kakkola > ghana kibida ho vajjai karune kiai na rola//(6) > tahi baru khajjai gade maana pijjai > hale kalinjara paniai dunduru tahi vajjiai//(7) > causama kacchuri sihla kappura laiai > malaindhana salinja tahi bharu khaiai//(8) > premkhana kheta karante sugghasuddha na muniai > niramsua amga cadabi tahim ja saraba paniai//(9) > malayaje kunduru batai dindima tahin na vajjiai//(10) > > Bhagavan replied: O! the Bola is located at Kollagiri, the > Kakkola at > Mummuni. The hand-drum is sounded forcefully; Compassion is > affected, not > discord. Here we eat meat and drink liquor in large quantities. > Hey! Here > the worthy ones enter, the unworthy ones are barred. We bring faeces, > urine, menstrual blood and semen. Here we eat herbs and human flesh > with > relish. We move to and fro without consideration of pure or impure. > Adorning our limbs with bone-ornaments, here we enter the corpse. > In the meeting we perform the sexual union; the untouchable is not > rejected here. > > -- The Concealed Essence of the Hevajara Tantra with the Commentary > Yogaratnamala, G.W.. Farrow and I. Menon, trans., II, 4, Seals > > From the Yogaratnamala Commentary: > kollai (Kollagiri): Refers to the Pitha (shrine) of that name. > mummuni: Refers to the Ksetra of that name. > bola ... kakkola (male sexual organ ... female sexual organ): > Indicates > the meeting, although they are initially apart, of the yogi and > yogini who > are characterized by these two organs respectively. > kibida (hand-drum): Is the code word for the hand-drum. > > Farrow and Menon: > kakkola - code word for the female sexual organ > bola - code work for Vajra, the male sexual organ > sandhyabhasa: Tantric Code Language. As examples of sandhyabhasa, the > Hevajra Tantra lists about twenty code words. In the Candrakirti's > Pradipodyotana commentary on Guhyasamaja Tantra sandhyabhasa is one > of the > sex ways by which the contents of the tantra are interpreted. The > Carya > songs of the Mahassidhas are mostly couched in code lnaguage. [...] > This > code system has been discussed by various eminent scholars. Many of > the > discussions have been based on the mistranslation of the word > sandhyabhasa > and what constitutes instances of sandhyabhasa. In our opinion too > much of > little consequence has been written on this subject. > > [Sandhyabhasa is intrinsically clear; the authors' use of 'system' > in the > definition above, is not. I'd like to think that sandhyabhasa > mostly moves > from inscription to abjection; all of this might well be lost in the > descent to English.] > > Alex Wayman: > kunduru (resin) - union of the two > kakkola (perfume) - lotus > dindima (small drum) - untouchable > > Agehannanda Bharati: > bola(ka) (Tib. bo la) 'gum myrrh' (a) -> vajra (Tib. rdo rje) 'the > Absolute' > kakkola(ka) (Tib. kakko la) n.p. of an aromatic plant, and of the > perfume > made from the plant (a) -> padma (Tib. padma) 'lotus' > > Bharati quoting Shahidullah from his edition of the Dohakosa and the > caryas: > padma 'lotus' -> (e) bhaga 'vulva' > vajra 'thunderbolt', the absolute (e) -> linga 'phallus' > > Bharati quoting Eliade: > vajra 'thunderbolt' -> linga, sunya 'voidness,' 'the void,' vacuite > > http://www.asondheim.org/TantricCodeLanguage.txt ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:02:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <934918.41312.qm@web86012.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >Barry Schwabsky wrote: The idea that 19th century photograph--indeed, any > photography until very recently--was better than painting at what painting is > trying to do is simply ridiculous. Think about color, for a start. Think about > scale, and the amount of detail large scale allows for. Any decent hack > academic painter in the 19th century could show more about the appearance of > things than any photograph could until the current era of the big-scale print > (Gursky, Struth, etc.). Beginning in the 1860's, Carleton Watkins' mammoth glass plate photographs in the west announce modernism. Hired by insurance companies to document mines and other operations, the pictures have a realist factuality about them that trumped painting, if and when 19th century painting was attempting to parlay "realism". (Ironically, painters such as Bierdstadt (sp?) would use W's photographs of Yosemite as a resource to transform into something romantically grandiose). Watkins is a nineteenth and early twentieth century anomaly in terms of pictorialist photography - where the photographers were still trying to get the atmospherics of a painting, often rather badly. Much of Gursky I do not see as realist at all. Like Beirdstadt, on a different level, the digital manipulation and redistribution of the pixels enables him to be much more about music (color, rhythm, etc.) Not quite Wagnerian, but sometimes close. I am thinking -as one example - of those Coliseum rock concert images. I once took Gursky to a Rova concert, and he was right, at home with it. He is quite a music aficionado - jazz et tout. (Not to take away at all from the influence of classical European painting on the way he has shaped some of his work). Anyway, the wrestling match between photography and painting - combined with market factors - is not going to go away soon. But that's another, parallel story: Money! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Of course! And don't forget Rackstraw Downes, Catherine Murphy, Lois Dodd...to > speak only of some of the elders. > > Thomas savage wrote: > While I somewhat agree with this statement, I wish to add that there are still > many wonderful realistic painters out there who continue to add something to > what photography can now provide. One who immediately comes to mind is the > wonderful Yvonne Jacquette. Anyone who has seen a show of her magnificent > paintings understands that there is still room for realistic painting to > explore and pursue. > > Barry Schwabsky wrote: The idea that 19th century photograph--indeed, any > photography until very recently--was better than painting at what painting is > trying to do is simply ridiculous. Think about color, for a start. Think about > scale, and the amount of detail large scale allows for. Any decent hack > academic painter in the 19th century could show more about the appearance of > things than any photograph could until the current era of the big-scale print > (Gursky, Struth, etc.). > > The true immediate difference between the photograph and the painting was (byt > maybe no longer is, in the digital era) its indexical quality--the fact that > the photographic image seems to be causally connected to what it pictures, to > be a trace of it, a vera icona, acheiropoieta, like Veronica's Veil--which > painting could never be. > > Jim Andrews wrote: > Here is an interesting post by Clay Shirky ( http://tinyurl.com/ypecnf ) on > Luddism and a remark by Keen (who wrote 'The Cult of the Amateur'). The > responses to the post (among which is a response by Shirky to some of the > responses) are worth reading also. Basically, the article looks at a common > effect technologies have had on production: bringing the cost down to > consumers; devaluing the goods; and Shirky describes resistance to this as > Luddism. > > Here are two related pieces ( http://tinyurl.com/27r9uv and > http://tinyurl.com/2lq6c7 ) by Michael Gorman, author of "Our Enduring > Values: Librarianship in the 21st Century". He rails against Wikipedia and > the devaluing of encyclopedias and education he sees in the digital age. > > Here is a new and related piece by Kenny Goldsmith of ubu.com ( > http://tinyurl.com/3dz8pn ) called "Writing's Crisis v.1.0". He begins like > so: > > "With the rise of the web, writing has met its photography. By that I mean, > writing has encountered a situation similar to what happened to painting > upon the invention of photography, a technology so much better at doing what > the art form had been trying to do, that in order to survive, the field had > to alter its course radically. If photography was striving for sharp focus, > painting was forced to go soft, hence Impressionism. Faced with an > unprecedented amount of digital available text, writing needs to redefine > itself in order to adapt to the new environment of textual abundance." > > The piece is related to the others in that, again, it's concerned with > responses to abundance, in this case of writing and poetry. > > **************** > > A couple of responses to Kenny's piece. > > Suppose it's true, as I think it is, that the net creates a textual > abundance that devalues the typical output of writers. This is not going > away. Print will not simply reassert itself and re-establish the status quo. > It is an ongoing issue from here on in. > > Then things like net art will also be ongoing from here on in. Same with > video art. They aren't over. They continue to adapt to changing technology > and the changing world. The story on them is not finished. Certain strains > of them start and finish quicker than net art itself, or video art itself. > > Ken says that the art world fell out of love with net art because it turned > into the province of programmers, not artists. It is of course possible that > someone can be both an artist and a programmer. Surely that's one of the > several large challenges of working as an artist with digital media; the > most fundamental phenomenological observation one can make about computers > is that they're programmable; that's what separates them from previous > machines; that's what gives them their radical flexibility as machines, > flexibility to the point that there is no proof, and probably never will be, > that there are thought processes of which humans are capable and computers > are not. This isn't to say that interesting net art or digital writing > *must* be programmed; there are other issues involved in the changes brought > about by computers and digital networks etc. But certainly > artist-programmers have a radically flexible medium available to them that > is hardly exhausted, and intrepid work will continue both as net art and as > offline work in writing, in other arts, and in syntheses of arts and media. > > Whether it is the darling of the art world is of little concern, > particularly if the art world is protective against innovative, imaginative > interlopers; such gatekeeping can only devalue art itself as the province of > thinkers and original creators of art. > > In any case, it's interesting how all the URLs above key on the issue of > scarcity/abundance. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:06:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > That's certainly one way of reading TLP, and it's very standard from an > analytic philosophy point of view, very much in line with Anscombe's > Introduction to The Tractatus and Russells introduction to the book. It > is certainly the way that someone with a commitment to a logical atomism > of some kind is going to read it. To that extent it's a valid > interpretation of a very difficult book, and I wouldn't say it was > incorrect. > This doesn't really matter to me - whether it's 'standard' or not; I also have no commitment to logical atomism - in fact, just the opposite. > However, I do disagree with this reading. I don't take the subject of > the book to be the world. The world is mentioned briefly in the opening > propositions, from which wittgenstein moves quickly through his peculiar > understanding of the nature of facts and on to the matter of what really > interests him, and what the actual subject of the tractatus on my > reading, and that is the structure of propositions and what can and > cannot be expressed by them. Well, I'm reading the book differently than you, more like Nagarjuna's Middle Way. It opens with the world, ends with something akin to emptiness. Since the subject is announced as 1, since there are only 7 propositions (if I remember correctly), to say it's 'mentioned briefly' doesn't seem all that relevant to me - it's the foundation of the work, all that is the case (however one wants to translate it). To just talk about the 'structure of propositions' it seems to me is to ignore the fact that this _isn't_ a book on logic, but on the world, there are important ontological shifts here that in many ware are the core of the work. > The problem is if you take him at his word here, that the TLP is a > ladder to be kicked away when you get to the top, if you understand it, > it's very difficult to say what you understand if wittgenstein is right > if what is understood must be passed over in silence. Yes and this problem is the core of the book, the world under erasure in a sense. Here's where the ontological shift is important. > reading his letters, he pretty much tells everybody but Frege that they > won't understand it before they read it. He eventually comes to the > conclusion that Frege didn't get it either, and I beleive that he was a > little bit appalled at the understanding that Moritz Schlick and Co. > seemed to have of it. It's notable that it took Frank Ramsey coming and > visiting W in the village where he was teaching and spending days going > over the tractatus before Wittgenstein was able to 1.) recognize in > ramsey someone with a mind he felt worth taking seriously and 2.) from > that and ramsey's willingness to follow wittgenstein through his > argument in TLP, take seriously Ramsey's objections and realize that TLP > might not be the last word after all. What i think it illustrates more > than anything is how wittgenstein's personal perfectionism and the > attendant sense of superiority that it brought with it was as much an > obstacle to Wittgenstein being understood, and to him being able to make > himself understood, as was the difficulty and strangeness of his > subjects. I actually didn't feel the book was that difficult, once the mathematics was mastered, but then my reading's quite different than yours. Thank you by the way for the biographical information; I didn't know this. >> With the Investigations the situation is very different. I don't think >> the Principia Mathematica was really detailed there; it was on the TLP, >> and already of course the paradoxes of mathematics destroyed the >> crystalline order in terms of a constructivist axiomatics - of course >> you'd have to believe that proof theory's somehow connected to ontology >> for the dstruc- tion to occur. > > I tend to read both the so-called "private language" argument, as well > as the comments on intention and vaguness both in PI as well as Zettel, > and in the foundational remarks in PI beginning at PI 13 and picking up > steam at PI 38 as definitely engaged with the ideas of the logical > atomists and the problems with what russell took to calling "the > philosophy of logical analysis". The philosophy of logical analysis and the PM are very different, unless I'm missing something here. >> Your point about universal grammar is really interesting; I do wonder >> though if one can make a leap from language games etc. to a >> probmeatizing of such a grammar. They're different epistemologies; I >> don't think (I may be very wrong here) that universal grammar implies >> exact meaning and denotation - if anything it seems to me it would deal >> with the structures underlying language games, since, when such a game >> is played, as it always is, the participants in a dialog almost always >> understand implicitly what is meant. This would be a substructural >> affair, not an affair of defini- tion. In other words, I don't think >> the opposition you set up is really necessarily there. > [ ... ] > > Where the idea of Universal Grammar runs into trouble is due to the fact > that it's relatively easy to imagine not only language games which did > not fit into whatever framework Prof. Chomsky believes should be the > essence of Universal Grammar this week, but that it's equally simple to > imagine how such a language would be taught and how it would be used. > And then of course, there's the fact that these sorts of languages > actually do exist. There's been some popular coverage recently of Daniel > Everett's work on Piraha, which doesn't have either color words or a > grammatical structure for recursion, both of whcih are problems for > chomsky's UG, since the number of things which can be taken as common to > all languages is rapidly dwindling. > I'm not familiar with this work or Piraha - I'd have to know the language myself to make any sort of comment on it. By the way starlings have recursion - this came out last year. > But even so, it should be possible to construct a language that's > perfectly intelligible and doesn't have any sort of universal grammar > beyond some basic things that are determined more by the world than they > are by anything specific about human beings, the presence of subjects > and objects in sentences, adjectives nouns and verbs, that sort of > thing. And really, this is what Wittgenstein is getting at with his more > obtuse statements about "forms of life" and the possibility of > translating lionese. The strictures placed on our languages aren't > grammars, but our grammars are largely determined by what we are and how > we interact with the world. Which, I think, is enough to solve the > problems that UG is proposed to solve without speculating all manner of > root level grammar that is subject to the problems raised by the Private > language argument. > Well, I'd have to see such a language; again, I can't generalize. Certainly language developed in dialog with the world, and as Maturana says, it's a mutual orientation of cognitive domains; these are also dialectical. So much depends on the way the world is determinative, if at all, and for me the jury's out on that... - Alan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:16:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Numbskull quote of the day In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable >=20 > Information isn't knowledge, either -- one reason why the so-called > "information society" and "dumbing down" go hand in hand. I misread this to say, "information society" and "dumping down" go hand in hand. Yes, all this information that we most often get is dumped down on us. No fact checking, no editorial shaping in terms of content or design. Artles= s and stupid, finally. Dealing with it is like changing your kid's diapers with a full load. =20 Good newspapers are beginning to crash all over the place since nobody (i.e= . Advertisers) want to pay for genuine investigations, editing, etc. And, parenthetically, who wants to pay for genuine research and sorting out new insight and info among scholars. I think there is less and less time an= d money for folks to divert from the teaching 'assembly line.' Consequently, one suspects,most text information is old and redux (it's much cheaper to repeat old facts). Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Joel Weishaus > Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:03 pm > Subject: Numbskull quote of the day > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 >=20 >> "Some reading experts say that urging kids to read fiction in general >> might be a misplaced goal. 'If you look at what most people need to >> read for their occupation, it=B9s zero narrative,' said Michael L. >> Kamil, a professor of education at Stanford University. 'I don=B9t want >> to deny that you should be reading stories and literature. But we=B9ve >> overemphasized it,' he said. Instead, children need to learn to read >> for information, Mr. Kamil said, something they can practice while >> reading on the Internet, for example." New York Times, 11 July 07 >>=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:22:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <1dec21ae0707111139p66cf9d6drb958c43126d653cc@mail.gmail.com> (Murat Nemet-Nejat's message of "Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:39:02 -0400") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Murat, > Information can be true or false, therefore, legitimate (in first analysis) > within the realm of empirical activity. But abundance changes everything. > > As far as I am aware, most observations on the abundance the net creates are > approached from the point of view of production -basically how much more > information we have, etc. Relatively little has been said about the crisis > in reception this abundance creates. The crisis in reception is being addressed through filtering strategies. Some are technological (like RSS aggregators), some are social (like digg and reddit), and some are essentially manual (boingboing, growabrain), or even nearly private (I haven't left a chatroom that contains 5-8 of my closest friends for a decade, and we act as aggregators for each other). I don't think it's a crisis at all, personally. I'd hesitate to call it a "solved problem" but it's absolutely being worked on all over the place. A lot of money is being thrown at it, too, because of how apparent the need for intelligent, useful filtering the information is. > To use an analogy, a classical legal > trick to obfuscate is to throw everything including the kitchen sink at the > asker for information. I will give one relatively modest example, within the > purview of our own activities. In the early days of blogging, I used to > follow more or less all the blogs I can get my hands on, following in a > intimate fashion the daily thoughts, their ebbs and flows, of the owner of > the blog. Unless specifically pointed to, with rare exceptions, today I > follow hardly any. I do not know how common my experience is; but, in my > case, the abundance of blogs resulted to my reading them less seriously. My experience is quite the opposite. I used to waste a lot of time uselessly checking blogs for updates. RSS aggregation (I currently use and like netvibes) alone has easily quadrupled the number of blogs I keep up on. > The above point is separate from the virtues or defect of the blog as a net > form. One fact is clear. Blogs were not created by poets, but initially by > creators of web sites to attract more visitors. I'm not sure what you mean by this, or, I may simply disagree. Blogs were absolutely created by poets and other kinds of writers first. They were manually written/coded and too complex for the average web user to find attractive initially. But then some of those individuals wrote open source solutions to help automate the processes for others and that facilitated a level of interest that attracted the interest of commercial companies like blogger, xanga, livejournal, and so on, which addressed two needs quite well: benefits of built-in community (because they pre-dated RSS, which may end up being their undoing if they're not careful), and WYSIWYG interface (which made it so my mom could blog). > In the poliitical domain, > blogs (and u-tube) turned out to be open, explosive forces with real impact > on political process -a kind of free, mudracking press or 18th century > broadsides. But in poetry, it seems to me, its impact has been towards > insularity or basically authoritarian structures. Why is that so, what does > it say about us as a community or poetry as an activity? I think it says more about the software being used than poetry as an activity. I think it does say something about "us as a community" though, definitely. The "community" softwares breed vapidity through encouragement and positive re-enforcement. The latest versions which incorporate complex tagging are helping to offset the crushing effect of the way older posts get completely forgotten, so that's a step in the right direction--but a very new development that will take time to have an effect. Threaded comments would help a lot, I think, particularly if new comments into a thread of an old post would bring that post back to the top (as it does in many newsgroup softwares). > In my view, among poets, the nonluddites which I assume most people in this > list are, there has been a noncritical embrace of every new technological > option thrown in our direction. I agree there's been a noncritical response. I'm not so sure I'd say "embrace" though. And I think it's not clear that most people on this list are embracing technology at all. They are obviously connected to the internet, and have access to email or a web browser, but--and I don't mean this to malign listservs, I'm a huge fan of them--the listserv is not exactly the latest and greatest way to be a digitally connected group. > I am not claiming that one should wish to go > to a pre-lapsarian, pre-computer time; or that all the artistic and > political possibilities the computer offers -and they are mind-boggilingly > many- should not be pursued without "making an automobile in the shake of a > horse carriage." But poetry, at least in my view, should contain skepticism; > that's what wit is. I think that skepticism -at least in matters concerning > the net- does not exist in enough "abundance" among us poets. While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change is possible. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 15:18:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are rock stars who make a point of opening up shows with comments about war, censorship, and other issues mobbing our senses these days. CAT POWER certainly does. MARILYN MANSON has a lot to say about American politics at shows, and there's also that impressive interview Michael Moore did with him in BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE. But at the same time it's probably true that these are the exceptions. I believe very strongly that it's A GOOD THING to be disappointed. Because it's a good thing to keep going, and to keep asking others how they feel about war and poverty, racism, homophobia, and other forms of cruelty and deprivation. First of all the very fact of being disappointed is evidence of wanting better. No longer being disappointed is evidence of cynicism. And there are few things worse than cynicism. My grandmother used to sing a song when I was kid that had the line, "the cynic and the killer waltz together." Something to build a young mind around. Brian Welch is nothing more than a wave of propaganda which continues to swell and cover us and turn us into cynics, or, not even cynics but people who have lost empathy. At least a cynic is working on the platform of caring enough to be cynical. Those who have lost empathy are dead before they are dead. My disappointments, your disappointments, these things keep our perspectives. Brian Welch's asshole life of not caring about this world, its wrongs, and his being complicit in its wrongs, is a mere gasp on the train. Being angry never felt more important, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:56:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC: Aug. 2-5/Welcome to Boog City Poetry and Music Festival Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, =20 From Thurs. Aug. 2-Sun. Aug. 5 we'll be putting on Welcome to Boog City, a poetry and music festival. The schedule for the event is below, followed by performer bios and websites. Hope you can check it out. as ever, David =20 ------------- =20 THURSDAY AUGUST 2, 6:00 P.M. =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio)=20 =20 Thurs. Aug. 2, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free =20 ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Pavement Saw Press editor David Baratier =20 =20 Featuring=20 =20 Tony Gloeggler Simon Perchik Rachel M. Simon Daniel Zimmerman =20 music from turntablists Dr. Benstock =20 There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. =20 Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 =20 FRIDAY AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum =20 Readings and musical performances =20 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 8:45 p.m.-Gillian McCain 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Tom Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n=E9 The Sparrows) 10:20 p.m.-Wanda Phipps 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. =20 =20 SATURDAY AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. =20 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. NYC =20 11:00 a.m. =20 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair Free =20 Small press fair, this year with indie records and crafts, too. Featuring 1= 5 on the 15=B9s=8Ba 15-minute musical performance at the fair each hour on the 15=B9s: =20 11:15 a.m.-Bob Kerr 12:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr 1:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr =20 2:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 3:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 4:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty =20 =20 5:00 p.m.=20 Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 =20 =20 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-John Coletti 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.- =20 The Fugs, Village Fugs. Performed live by: =20 *I Feel Tractor 1. Slum Goddess 2. Ah, Sunflower Weary of Time =20 *Scott MX Turner 3. Supergirl=20 4. Swinburne Stomp=20 =20 *Paul Cama 5. I Couldn't Get High 6. How Sweet I Roamed From Field to Field =20 *The Actual Feelings 7. Carpe Diem=20 8. My Baby Done Left Me =20 *JUANBURGUESA 9. Boobs a Lot =20 *Huggabroomstik 10. Nothing =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. =20 =20 SUNDAY AUGUST 5, 1:30 P.M., 3:45 P.M. =20 Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC $5 =20 1:30 p.m. The Future of Small Press Publishing curated and moderated by Mitch Highfill =20 featuring =20 David Baratier, editor Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) Brenda Iijima, editor Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (Brooklyn) Jill Stengel, editor a+bend press (Davis, Calif.) =20 =20 3:45 p.m. Readings and musical performances =20 3:45 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra 4:15 p.m.-Kimberly Lyons 4:30 p.m.-Gary Sullivan 4:45 p.m.-Brenda Iijima =20 5:00 p.m.- break =20 5:15 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra 5:35 p.m.-Jill Stengel 5:55 p.m.-Mitch Highfill 6:10 p.m.-Nada Gordon 6:25 p.m.-Sean Cole =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., 6 to Bleecker Venue is at E.1st St. =20 --------------- =20 **Welcome to Boog City Bios and Websites** =20 *Thursday =20 **David Baratier http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/editor.htm http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/dabaratier.htm http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com/2005/12/from-his-birth-in-1970-many-= b elieved.html Although he has appeared in print since 1986, in 1991 David Baratier met th= e poet laureate of New York State, at which point the powers of poetry were bestowed to him in a macabre ceremony. Shortly thereafter he became a full time poet. Many believe his previous life is fiction. He and his fine lady Rita, a former model, who has appeared in films such as Traffic, live in th= e deep south end of Columbus, Ohio, where his catty-corner neighbors ask to mow his lawn nightly for $2. He has given featured readings at the Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church, University of Pittsburgh, DC Arts Center, and Small Press Traffic, among others. He is the editor of Pavement Saw Press. His poems are anthologized in American Poetry: the Next Generation (Carnegi= e Mellon University Press), Clockpunchers: Poetry of the American Workplace (Partisan Press), Green Meanies (University of California Press), and Red, White & Blues (University of Iowa Press). His poetry collections include A Run of Letters (Poetry New York Press), The Fall Of Because (Pudding House)= , Estrella=B9s Prophecies I: Spinning the Wheel of Fortune (Runaway Spoon Press), Estrella=B9s Prophecies II: An American Fortune in Paris (Anabasis/Extant), Estrella=B9s Prophecies III: Return of the Magi (Luna Bisonte Productions), and the epistolary and prose novel In It What=B9s in It (Spuyten Duyvil). His forthcoming collections include after Celan (Slack Buddha Press) and Ugly American. =20 **Dr. Benstock http://www.drbenstock.com http://www.myspace.com/drbenstock Dr. Benstock is a turntable duo, in the tradition of Christian Marclay and Philip Jeck. Using Califone and PAC turntables and records found in Salvation Army bins, turntablists John McDonough and Paul Spencer have created a number of structured pieces, as well as improvisations, referencing the entire universe of recorded music. At any given Benstock performance one may hear the Clash, Berlioz, Sid Vicious, Frank Sinatra, Ar= t Blakey, Charles Mingus, Charles Nelson Reilly, Palestrina, self-hypnosis instructions, Bach, Portuguese poetry, Penderecki, and Van Halen. These records are mixed as a collage but never haphazardly. They are combined to make unique compositions in their own right. =20 Dr. Benstock has been together since 1992. They have played venues such as ABC No Rio, the Pourhouse, Tonic, the Knitting Factory, SUNY-Stony Brook, and Collective Unconscious in the N.Y.-metropolitan area, and Caf=E9 Koko in Greenfield, Mass. =20 **Tony Gloeggler Tony Gloeggler was born, lived, lives, and expects to die in some part of NYC. He manages a group home for developmentally disabled men in one of the suddenly too cool parts of Brooklyn. His first chapbook, One On One, won th= e Pearl Poetry Prize, and Jane Street Press put out My Other Life. One Wish Left (Pavement Saw Press) recently went into its second edition. =20 **Simon Perchik http://www.geocities.com/simonthepoet Simon Perchik is an attorney whose poems have appeared in The New Yorker, Partisan Review, and Pavement Saw, among others. Family of Man (Pavement Sa= w Press) and Rafts (Parsifal Editions) are forthcoming in 2007. For more information, including his essay =B3Magic, Illusion, and Other Realities=B2 and a complete bibliography, please visit his website. =20 **Rachel M. Simon http://www.myspace.com/theoryoforange http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/rsimon.htm Rachel M. Simon lives in Yonkers, N.Y., where she teaches writing to high school and college students, senior citizens, and maximum-security prison inmates. Her book Theory of Orange won the Transcontinental Prize from Pavement Saw Press. =20 **Daniel Zimmerman Daniel Zimmerman teaches at Middlesex County College in Edison, N.J., where he chairs the English department. He served as associate editor of the issu= e of Anonym that first published Ezra Pound=B9s last canto and edited the single-issue magazines The Western Gate and Brittannia. The Institute of Further Studies included his fascicle, Perspective, in its series, a curriculum of the soul. He collaborated with American-Canadian artist Richard Sturm on a livre deluxe, See All The People, lithographs, serigraph= s and embossings (Open Studio/ Scarborough College). In 1997 he invented an anagrammatical poetic form, Isotopes. His works include the trans-temporal collaboration blue horitals (Oasii), with John Clarke; ISOTOPES (Frame Publications); Post-Avant (Pavement Saw Press), with an introduction by Robert Creeley; and, forthcoming, ISOTOPES2 (Beard of Bees). His work has recently appeared in Chain, Chelsea, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, ETC: A Review o= f General Semantics, An Exaltation of Forms, House Organ, New York Quarterly, Snakeskin, and Tinfish. =20 =20 Friday =20 **David Baratier (see Thursday for bio) =20 **Thomas Devaney http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/devaney.html http://thomasdevaney.blogspot.com/ Thomas Devaney is the author of A Series of Small Boxes (Fish Drum Press). He presented "No Silence Here, Enjoy the Silence" this spring at the Institute of Contemporary Art in Philadelphia for the "Locally Localized Gravity" show. Devaney writes about poetry for The Philadelphia Inquirer. Recent work has appeared in Jubilat, The Poetry Project Newsletter, and The Sienese Shredder. He is a Penn Senior Writing Fellow in the English department at the University of Pennsylvania. =20 **Joanna Fuhrman http://www.hangingloosepress.com/recent.html http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=3D179254 Joanna Fuhrman is the author of three books of poetry, Freud in Brooklyn, Ugh Ugh Ocean, and Moraine, all from Hanging Loose Press. =20 **I Feel Tractor http://www.myspace.com/ifeeltractor http://www.goodbyebetter.com I feel tractor is available to you with musings of space folk and cut ups. = I feel tractor has a self-titled 7" from the Loudmouth Collective, and a CD, Once I Had an Earthquake, from Goodbye Better. =20 **Mark Lamoureux http://www.marklamoureux.com Mark Lamoureux lives in Astoria, Queens. Spuyten Duyvil/Meeting Eyes Binder= y published his first full-length collection, Astrometry Organon, earlier thi= s year. He is the author of four chapbooks: Traceland, 29 Cheeseburgers, Film Poems, and City/Temple. His work has appeared in print and online in Carve, Coconut, Conduit, Denver Quarterly, Fence, GutCult, Jubilat, Lungfull!, Melancholia=B9s Tremulous Dreadlocks, miPoesias, and Mustachioed, among others. He started Cy Gist Press, a micropress focusing on ekphrastic poetry, in 2006. He is an associate editor for Fulcrum Annual, printed matter editor for Boog City, and teaches English at Kingsborough Community College.=20 =20 **The Leader http://olivejuicemusic.com/theleader.html The Leader rock out with the dynamic grace of two sonic gymnasts (in formal attire). Careening through a thousand time signatures and pop genres, bassist Julie DeLano and drummer Sam Lazzara reign supreme over the low end= , with suspenseful rhythmic patterns beneath wickedly clever melodies and lyrics. It would be math rock if it weren't so soulful =8A yeah. =20 **Rachel Lipson http://www.rachellipson.org http://www.myspace.com/rachellipson Rachel Lipson is a Brooklyn-based songwriter who performs her simple, hones= t songs on guitar, ukulele and banjo. Born near Detroit, she spent her childhood building forts with her brother and sister in the living room, contemplating the dangers of the dark and pizza deliverers, riding horses and playing with friends. Rachel first picked up a guitar at age 16 and a few years later, after having moved to New York, began crafting the songs that would make up her first album, This Way, which she self-released the next year. =20 In 2003 Rachel released a 7" with Rough Trade recording artist Jeffrey Lewis, on Holland's Nowhere Fast record label and self-released her second album Some More Songs. She toured Europe for seven weeks with Lewis and Herman D=FCne in the summer, including the Mofo festival in Paris in July. In the fall, Rachel recorded a new album at Olive Juice Studios in New York fo= r the forthcoming release Pastures on Meccico Records, a U.K. label founded and run by members of Cornershop. Rachel is returning to the studio to record the first album of her side project, The Scruffles, with bandmate Jeffrey Lewis. =20 In the last few years, Rachel has collaborated and performed extensively with Leah Hayes (of La Laque and Scary Mansion), Herman D=FCne, and others. She has also played alongside Eugene Chadbourne, Kimya Dawson, Daniel Johnston, The Mountain Goats, and Refrigerator, as well as twice performing live on WFMU in New Jersey and on WNYC, a division of NPR. =20 Rachel Lipson's music combines a sort of radical simplicity and honesty wit= h intricately woven narratives. The lyrics seem to have as much to do with William Faulkner as they do with Woody Guthrie. The music recalls the earliest folk traditions and yet speaks at the same time to a contemporary minimal aesthetic. While sometimes the approach is blindingly direct and at others masterfully oblique, the overall effect is irresistible, one of invitingly gentle beauty and clarity. (Biography by Blue Bomber Press) =20 **Gillian McCain http://www.twc.org/forums/poetschat/poetschat_gmccain.html Gillian McCain is the author of two books of poetry, Tilt and Religion, and is the co-author (with Legs McNeil) of Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk. She serves on the board of directors of the Poetry Project at St. Marks Church. =20 **Nan and the Charley Horses http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/nan.html http://www.myspace.com/nanturner Vocally, she's the missing link between Kathleen Hanna and Juliana Hatfield= , with a wail matched only by her whisper. The Lucy Ricardo of indie rock, he= r zany, goof-ball spirit is cut only by the fierce sexuality of her drumming style (see Schwervon!). Raised on the outskirts of Olympia, Nan was studyin= g theater when the riot grrrl movement seduced her into a life of rock =B9n' roll. After several years with the power-pop girl band Bionic Finger, Nan went solo with her jangly, eclectic EP Leg Out, but her one-woman act soon morphed into the all-girl Pantsuit. After touring the U.K. with their French-released The Path From the House to the Lawn, Pantsuit has established itself as a virtual gland of playful melodies, moody sounds, an= d old-school feminist ferocity. =20 Presently, Nan is writing songs on keys and guitar and experimenting live with a rotating cast of musicians she has coined the One Night Stands. Her new EP, For Champs and Losers, Version 1, is out now on Olive Juice Music. =20 **The Passenger Pigeons http://myspace.com/rachelandrew Andrew Phillip Tipton met Rachel Talentino in Savannah while working at The Gap. A common love for catchy melodies, Carole King, and boys led them to Brooklyn. As The Passenger Pigeons (n=E9 The Sparrows), Andrew and Rachel mak= e up the cutest anti-folk duo around! Simple and lovely. =20 **Wanda Phipps http://www.mindhoney.com Wanda Phipps is a writer/performer living in Brooklyn. She is the author of Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems (Soft Skull Press), Your Last Illusion or Break Up Sonnets (Situations), Lunch Poems (Boog Literature), and the Faux Press issued e-chapbook After the Mishap and CD-Rom Zither Mood. Her poetry has appeared in over 100 publications. She has received awards from the New York Foundation for the Arts, the Meet the Composer/International Creative Collaborations Program, Agni Journal, the National Theater Translation Fund= , and the New York State Council on the Arts. She's also curated reading and performance series at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church and is a founding member of the Yara Arts Group, a resident theater company of La Mama, E.T.C. =20 **Lauren Russell Lauren Russell is now at the mercy of an idiopathic need to enter language and manipulate it. Her poetry has appeared in Boog City, The Recluse, and Van Gogh's Ear, among others. She is writing an experimental novella. =20 =20 Saturday =20 **The Actual Feelings The Actual Feelings are an assemblage of egos, chopped separately and throw= n together to make a tasty gazpacho. Their ingredient list is elastic. For this Fugs tribute they will most likely consist of Steve Espinola, Debby Schwartz, Heather Hoover, Andy Gilchrist, Andrew Rohn, and Catherine Capellero, with some cilantro, tomatoes, and peppers. The Actual Feelings manifesto calls for the immediate release of the complete 1965 Fugs sessions, including, but not limited to, the out-of-print recordings once found on Virgin Fugs, Fugs Four Rounders Score, and the alternate, primitive, Broadside LP release of The Village Fugs. The Actual Feelings have yet to hear the song "Bull Tongue Clit" and need to at once. =20 **Paul Cama Paul Cama started to play drums at 14, performing all kinds of music from jazz to blues to pop. He plays jazz in a big band in St. James. He was in the folk rock Americana band Nylon & Steel from 1989-1997. They released th= e album Slip Behind the Molecule in 1995. Cama also is a singer-songwriter guitarist and occasionally play solo gigs. He is playing drums in the impro= v band The Center For Hearing & Dizziness, which improves new sounds to vintage films in the tradition of silent movies. They will be releasing their first full-length DVD/CD later this year. =20 **John Coletti John Coletti grew up in Santa Rosa, Calif. and Portland, Ore. before moving to New York City 12 years ago. He is the author of Physical Kind (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Boku Books), The New Normalcy (Boog Literature), and Street Debris (Fell Swoop), a collaboration with poet Greg Fuchs with whom he also co-edits Open 24 Hours Press. =20 **CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/CAConrad CAConrad=B9s childhood included selling cut flowers along the highway for his mother and helping her shoplift. He escaped to Philadelphia the first chanc= e he got, where he lives and writes today with the PhillySound poet (www.phillysound.blogspot.com). Soft Skull Press published his book Deviant Propulsions last year. =20 **Greg Fuchs http://www.gregfuchs.com Greg Fuchs is a multi-disciplinary artist living in The Bronx. He works in = a variety of media including audio, digital, photography, poetry, and prose often placed in alternative art spaces including independent media organizations, non-profit galleries, and small press magazines. His latest work is Metropolitan Transit published by Brooklyn-based publisher Isabel Lettres. =20 **Sean T. Hanratty http://www.myspace.com/seanthanratty Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your shower= , by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly enchanting songs in the shower, of course. =20 **Huggabroomstik http://www.huggabroomstik.com http://myspace.com/lehuggacoustique Neil and Dashan started Huggabroomstik on January 7, 2001. The original nam= e they went by was "Toenail Fungus Clippings Up Your A$$ho1e Bi+ch." The firs= t song they came up with was "You Ask For Peanuts, You Get Popcorn, Bi+ch," which featured Benny Hadley singing through the telephone. Huggabroomstik has gone through a lot of changes through the past couple of years, but one thing that will never change is their love for the rock. Not Rock & Roll, but crack rock. So far, Huggabroomstik has been content playing shows in an= d around NYC, but they dream of making it all the way to Nashville. =20 **Juanburguesa http://myspace.com/jonathanberger Jonathan Berger writes about music, reads poetry, and eats Twinkies. In between these, he sometimes performs with his band, Juanburguesa. =20 **Eliot Katz Eliot Katz is the author of five books of poetry, including, most recently, When the Skyline Crumbles: Poems for the Bush Years (Cosmological Knot Press), View from the Big Woods: Poems from North America's Skull (Cosmological Knot Press), and Unlocking The Exits (Coffee House Press). A cofounder, with Danny Shot, of Long Shot literary journal, Katz guest-edite= d the journal's 2004 "Beat Bush issue." He is also a coeditor, with Allen Ginsberg and Andy Clausen, of Poems for the Nation (Seven Stories Press). Called "another classic New Jersey bard" by Ginsberg, Katz worked for many years as a housing advocate for Central Jersey homeless families. He lives in New York City, and works as a freelance writer and editor. =20 **Robert Kerr Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote the book and lyrics for the short musical The Sticky-Fingered Fianc=E9e, and the songs for his plays Kingdom Gone and Meet Uncle Casper, as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations Bearskin and The Juniper Tree. He was a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. =20 **Amy King http://www.amyking.org http://www.mipoesias.com http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/poetics/welcome.html Amy King is the author of I=B9m the Man Who Loves You (BlazeVOX Books), Antidotes for an Alibi (BlazeVOX Books), and The People Instruments (Pavement Saw Press). She teaches creative writing and English at Nassau Community College, is the editor-in-chief for the literary arts journal MiPOesias, and is also a member of the Poetics List Editorial Board. =20 **Kristin Prevallet http://www.kayvallet.com Kristin Prevallet's most recent book is I, Afterlife: Essay in Mourning Tim= e (Essay Press). She is a 2007 NYFA poetry fellow and lives in Brooklyn. =20 **Nathaniel Siegel Nathaniel Siegel is a poet, artist, and activist. He is a volunteer at The Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church in the Bowery and an advisor to Study Abroad on the Bowery at The Bowery Poetry Club. His work has been included in Art Around the Park at The Howl Festival, and group shows at the Leslie Lohman Gallery in SoHo. Poets for Peace, Poets Against the War, and Acts of Art are all groups he supports. He is also a member of ACT UP NYC and the Queer Justice League. His first chapbook is forthcoming from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 **Christina Strong http://www.xtina.org http://www.openmouth.org http:///www.bookwhore.com Christina Strong is a poet and designer who lives in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs published her chapbook, [Anti-Erato] and Faux Press her e-book Utopian Politics. Her poems have appeared in Boog City, Jacket, Magazine CyPress, POM2, and Shampoo, among others. She is the edito= r of Openmouth Press and the politics editor of Boog City, as well as managin= g the above websites. =20 **Rodrigo Toscano http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/rodrigo_toscano01.shtml Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve, Platform, The Disparities, and Partisans. Toscano is also the artistic coordinator of the Collapsible Poetics Theater. His experimental poetics plays, polyvocalic pieces, masques, anti-masques, and radio plays have recently been performed at Los Angeles=B9 Disney Redcat Theater; the Ontological Theater Poets Plays Festival; New Langton Arts Space in San Francisco; Vancouver, Canada; Teubingen, Germany; the Poet=B9s Theater Jamboree 2007 at the California College of the Arts Auditorium, and, most recently, at the Yockadot Poetics Theater Festival in Alexandria, Va. His poetic works have been translated into French, German, Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from th= e Borderlands of California. He lives in Greenpoint township of Brooklyn, and works in Manhattan at the Labor Institute. =20 **Scott M.X. Turner http://www.fansforfairplay.com http://www.dddb.net Scott M.X. Turner's quarter-century of musical output has involved punk roc= k bands (The Spunk Lads, The Service), Irish punk (The Devil's Advocates), sk= a (one tumultuous tour with Bad Manners), soundtrack music for films (a bunch of documentaries), and his one-man/one-guitar assemblage, RebelMart, is currently recording its new album Brooklyn Is Dying. Turner's writings have appeared in Boog City, Elysian Fields Quarterly, Lurch, and others. As a coordinator of Fans For Fair Play and a steering committee member of Develo= p Don't Destroy Brooklyn, Turner's joined thousands to fight overdevelopment in NYC, starting with Bruce Ratner's disastrous Atlantic Yards project. He lives with archeologist Diane George and the dogs Sirius and Tikkanen near Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn. =20 **Ian Wilder http://www.onthewilderside.net Ian Wilder=B9s life has always veered between art and politics. On the cultural side, he has published chapbooks; given dozens of poetry readings; wrote newspaper articles; and hosted events. At a master class, Yevegeny Yevtushenko proclaimed that Ian=B9s snowflake poem is perfect. He has performed spoken word as a part of the near-mythic folk groovin=B9 band Nylon & Steel, and was co-founding lyricist for the duo Spiritwalkers. His work with Nylon & Steel can be found on the album Slip Behind the Molecule. =20 With Nader=B9s 2000 presidential campaign, Wilder was drawn back into politics. Within four years he co-founded the Babylon Greens at his kitchen table, helped run the first full ticket of Greens in his town=B9s history, gotten elected secretary of his county Green Party and then co-chair of the Green Party of New York State. He currently represents Long Island to the GPUS Presidential Campaign Support Committee. =20 Wilder also co-hosts The Green Party Show, a weekly public access TV show, which you can also see posted at his blog. Some of the events he helped organize this year are documented there, including a local UFPJ Peace Vigil= , a pro-day laborer/Love Thy Neighbor Rally, and a Step-It-Up 2007 event at the Solar Cafe. =20 =20 [Sunday =20 **David Baratier (see Thursday for bio) =20 **Sean Cole http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooTwentyfour/coles.html Sean Cole is the author of the chapbooks By the Author (Boog Literature) an= d Itty City (Pressed Wafer), Boog's first full-length, single-author collection The December Project. His work has appeared in Black Clock, Carve, Magazine Cypress, Pavement Saw, Pom Pom, and Torch. Cole also writes stories for public radio and bios like this one. =20 **Nada Gordon http://ululate.blogspot.com Nada Gordon is the author of five books, including the recently released Folly from Roof Books. She lives happily on Ocean Parkway with the cartoonist and poet Gary Sullivan. =20 **Mitch Highfill http://www.fauxpress.com/e/highfill.pdf Mitch Highfill is the author of Koenig's Sphere, and the forthcoming Rebis (Open Mouth Press). =20 **Brenda Iijima http://www.yoyolabs.com Brenda Iijima is the author of Around Sea (O Books). Her book of drawings, collages, and poems, Animate, Inanimate Aims, is just out from Litmus Press= . She was the runner-up for Ahsahta Press's Sawtooth Prize, selected by Peter Gizzi, with her book, If Not Metamorphic, to be published by Ahsahta. Forthcoming from Fewer & Further Press is the chapbook Rabbit Lesson. She i= s the editor of Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 **Kimberly Lyons Kimberly Lyons is the author of Saline (Instance Press). A chapbook from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Katalanch=E9 Press is forthcoming. =20 **The Poetics Orchestra The Poetics Orchestra plays improvisational music with poetry, conducted by Drew Gardner. =20 **Jill Stengel http://www.dusie.org/late%20may.pdf Poet and publisher Jill Stengel lives in Davis, Calif. with her husband and three young children. Jill=B9s poetry has recently appeared at www.notellmotel.org, www.shampoopoetry.com, and www.texfiles.blogspot.com, as well as Dirt and Superflux, and in her recent chapbook, late may (see link above). She has two new chapbooks due out later this year: may/be (dusie) and wreath (Texfiles). Boog Literature published her chapbook Ladie= s with Babies in 2003. She=B9s the editor of a+bend press, former prolific publisher of chapbooks in conjunction with a reading series in San Francisco. a+bend is now publishing mem, a journal of writing by poets who are currently mothering young children, and page mothers. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:26:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <86abu2sq3n.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush -- but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change is possible. Regards, Dan --------------------------------- Need Mail bonding? Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:32:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <778010.64246.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be too late to reverse the damage. Mark At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush -- but >I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > >Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree >that there needs to be a healthy level of >skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be >skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary >to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED >about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, >first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make >actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's >needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change >is possible. > >Regards, >Dan > > > >--------------------------------- >Need Mail bonding? >Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:33:26 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 I'm encouraged.=20 Who's in? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "amy king" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art > Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 14:26:19 -0700 >=20 >=20 > It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there=20 > seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush -- but=20 > I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the=20 > poets ... >=20 > Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree=20 > that there needs to be a healthy level of > skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be > skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary > to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED > about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, > first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make > actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's > needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change > is possible. >=20 > Regards, > Dan >=20 >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------- > Need Mail bonding? > Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. > =3D French Language Course in France Friendly & Relaxed French Language Course in France. Located in the Heart o= f Paris. Conversation-Based Method. Maximum 9 Students per class. Intensive= and Extensive courses. Great Prices. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D74775ab8d37d46d1595fc= 9684c81fb58 --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:24:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Baby Mastodon Found...in Joe Brainard's Pyjamas... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Not really, although all day I thought of how awful it must have been for him when he died, the baby mastodon. New on Joe Brainard's PJs: Marjorie Welish Has a Scalpel in her Hand! (your talk made me find this and type this, listserv, darn ye! , A Visual Poem, a Sexual Monologue and a bunch of other Yadda not Yaddo type stuff. I'm at post 4, so I'm Audi...you'll find the jammies are laid out at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:24:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: did Lady Bird ever dream of Honest Ed? In-Reply-To: <778010.64246.qm@web83315.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 'Honest Ed' Mirvish Dies at 92 Edwin Mirvish, the theater producer and flamboyant Canadian businessman known as "Honest Ed" because of his popular Toronto discount store, has died at age 92. Lady Bird Johnson, Former First Lady, Dies at 94 Lady Bird Johnson, the widow of President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was once described by her husband as "the brains and money of this family" and whose business skills cushioned his road to the White House, died this afternoon at her home in Austin, Tex. She was 94. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:11:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070711172830.05b25bc8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be too late to reverse the damage. Mark At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush -- but >I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > >Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree >that there needs to be a healthy level of >skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be >skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary >to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED >about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, >first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make >actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's >needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change >is possible. > >Regards, >Dan > > --------------------------------- Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:00:52 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wystan Curnow Subject: FW: Reminder: call for papers for issue 2 of Reading Room MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1257" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 I forward this call for papers as one of the journal's editors. Maybe = the theme is too visual art specific to interest many members of the = list; however, please note that proposals NOT on the theme are also welcomed and that Reading Room is a journal of 'art and = culture' and we hope to embrace topics in poetry and poetics--the first = issue included an essay of mine devoted to autobiography with specific = reference to Ron Silliman and On Kawara. For this issue we would like to = have material that is squarely on topic but also material that works = from a distance from it.=20 =20 I'd emphasize that the deadline is only for expressions of interest. For = more information on Reading Room please visit the Auckland Art Gallery = website below. And feel free to email me. =20 Wystan ________________________________ From: Hammond, Catherine [mailto:Catherine.Hammond@aucklandcity.govt.nz] = Sent: Monday, 9 July 2007 4:35 p.m. Subject: Reminder: call for papers for issue 2 of Reading Room READING ROOM: A JOURNAL OF ART AND CULTURE=20 ISSUE 2=20 CALL FOR PAPERS=20 Transcendental Pop=20 Issue 2 of Reading Room explores a paradox within contemporary art and = culture=92s absorption of Pop. While artists continue to utilise Pop=92s = method, =91Transcendental Pop=92 identifies a current shift in the = infamous fascination with the everyday. Arguably, it is Warhol=92s = defence of surface, flatness and blankness, that has been absorbed and = referenced by subsequent generations of artists. These characteristic = qualities have become embedded in art=92s relationship to the everyday = =96 the =91real=92. In part, this narrow absorption of Pop=92s surface = has allowed a paradox to occur when artists reinvest surface with = =91depth=92, the unknown and unquantifiable. We invite an exploration of = this apparent contradiction, something which has the potential to shift = the art / life nexus as we know it.=20 Rather than re-examining the effect of historic Pop, this issue = encourages writers to look at the reception and dilution of Warhol=92s = own position. Implicit in the topic is =91the legitimacy=92, to use Jeff = Wall=92s word, of using art to =91put one=92s finger on what makes = society tick=92. Relevant too, is the =91second-hand=92 reception of = Warhol=92s America outside centres of global capital (as in the case of = Takashi Murakami); new uses of the =91enduring moment=92 or = choreographed =91now=92 in Warhol=92s films (as in the work of Phil = Collins); and the constructed or recycled material world (Thomas Demand = or Rachel Harrison). There is scope here to consider key Warholian = devices, but from perspectives not possible for Warhol, to consider = artistic positions beyond cynicism or belief. Deadline for expressions of interest or short abstracts relating to this = topic extended to 31 July 2007.=20 Reading Room is a refereed journal of art and culture published annually = by the E.H. McCormick Research Library at Auckland Art Gallery Toi o = T=E2maki. The journal publishes essays of around 5000 words, artists=92 = projects, and shorter articles of around 1000 words for its archive = section. Proposals outside the topic area will also be considered. The editors of Reading Room are Christina Barton, Natasha Conland and = Wystan Curnow.=20 Please address all correspondence to:=20 Catherine Hammond=20 Managing Editor, Reading Room=20 PO Box 5449=20 Auckland, New Zealand.=20 Tel +0064 9 307 7714=20 Fax +0064 9 302 1096=20 Email catherine.hammond@aucklandcity = .govt.nz=20 Catherine Hammond=20 Research Librarian=20 Auckland Art Gallery Toi o Tamaki=20 PO Box 5449, Auckland, New Zealand=20 Ph. +64 9 307 7714=20 Email: catherine.hammond@aucklandcity.govt.nz=20 Website: www.aucklandartgallery.govt.nz = =20 This email is confidential. If it is not intended for you please do not = read, distribute or copy it or any attachments. Please notify the sender = by return email and delete the original message and any attachments.=20 Any views expressed in this email may be those of the individual sender = and may not necessarily reflect the views of Auckland Art Gallery Toi o = Tamaki. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:07:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Alan Sondheim wrote: > Well, I'm reading the book differently than you, more like Nagarjuna's Middle > Way. It opens with the world, ends with something akin to emptiness. Since the > subject is announced as 1, since there are only 7 propositions (if I remember > correctly), to say it's 'mentioned briefly' doesn't seem all that relevant to > me - it's the foundation of the work, all that is the case (however one wants > to translate it). To just talk about the 'structure of propositions' it seems > to me is to ignore the fact that this _isn't_ a book on logic, but on the > world, there are important ontological shifts here that in many ware are the > core of the work. If you just look at the seven main propositions it definitely looks like it's a book about the nature of the world. However, if you look at the amount of commentary given to each of the seven main propositions, then it seems to me that "the world which is the totality of facts" (by TLP 1&2 (which is a really weird idea, i think, once you really get your head around what wittgenstein thinks is a fact)), the ontological issues are given very short shrift compared to the bulk of the book which is commentary on propositions 3 4 5 and 6. 3 introduces the picture theory of meaning, which is fundamental to early wittgenstein's understanding of propositions 4 links the picture theory to propositional signs 5 introduces the idea of elementary propopsitions and discusses how those are founded in the facts of the wordls 6 deals with how propositions are true or false and with their general form Those discussions take up 80% of the book at least, which is why I think the discussion of propositions and how they have meaning is the real subject of what Wittgenstein is after. I agree with you though that I think the place he ends up at is a fundamentally metaphysical theory, and I also think that the fact that he ended up there is one of the reasons he felt compelled to revise his work, for which reading I offer the comments he makes about "the author of the tractatus" in PI. >>...<< >>> With the Investigations the situation is very different. I don't think the >>> Principia Mathematica was really detailed there; it was on the TLP, and >>> already of course the paradoxes of mathematics destroyed the crystalline >>> order in terms of a constructivist axiomatics - of course you'd have to >>> believe that proof theory's somehow connected to ontology for the dstruc- >>> tion to occur. >> >> I tend to read both the so-called "private language" argument, as well as >> the comments on intention and vaguness both in PI as well as Zettel, and in >> the foundational remarks in PI beginning at PI 13 and picking up steam at PI >> 38 as definitely engaged with the ideas of the logical atomists and the >> problems with what russell took to calling "the philosophy of logical >> analysis". > > The philosophy of logical analysis and the PM are very different, unless I'm > missing something here. both the target of the PM and logical analysis are finding somesort of foundations for language. it's clear from the remarks on the foundations of mathematics and lectures on the foundations of mathematics (which are fascinating if you haven't read them, btw, particularly the extended debates during the lectures that alan turing was in attendance at) that W was very committed to the idea that mathematics was merely a specialized extension of language that dealt with certain ways of speaking. I think a lot of what W was up to in PI was trying to show that such quests for "foundations" in language by either parsing things out or formalizing everything down to first principles, is a mistaken pursuit that misses something important about the nature of language, and it is the understanding of that missing piece of the nature of language that allows people to stop doing philosophy and come to an end of their investigations, and to transmute philosopher's nonsense into plain nonsense. I think that Wittgenstein felt he had to come at it from this angle in particular given how little he thought of Godel's incompleteness theorems and the platonism that such ideas led him to. >>> Your point about universal grammar is really interesting; I do wonder >>> though if one can make a leap from language games etc. to a probmeatizing >>> of such a grammar. They're different epistemologies; I don't think (I may >>> be very wrong here) that universal grammar implies exact meaning and >>> denotation - if anything it seems to me it would deal with the structures >>> underlying language games, since, when such a game is played, as it always >>> is, the participants in a dialog almost always understand implicitly what >>> is meant. This would be a substructural affair, not an affair of defini- >>> tion. In other words, I don't think the opposition you set up is really >>> necessarily there. >> > [ ... ] >> >> Where the idea of Universal Grammar runs into trouble is due to the fact >> that it's relatively easy to imagine not only language games which did not >> fit into whatever framework Prof. Chomsky believes should be the essence of >> Universal Grammar this week, but that it's equally simple to imagine how >> such a language would be taught and how it would be used. And then of >> course, there's the fact that these sorts of languages actually do exist. >> There's been some popular coverage recently of Daniel Everett's work on >> Piraha, which doesn't have either color words or a grammatical structure for >> recursion, both of whcih are problems for chomsky's UG, since the number of >> things which can be taken as common to all languages is rapidly dwindling. >> > I'm not familiar with this work or Piraha - I'd have to know the language > myself to make any sort of comment on it. By the way starlings have recursion - > this came out last year. There was an interesting long article about it in either the New Yorker or the Atlantic Monthly a little ways back. Piraha is a really interesting language though. Apparently native speakers can more or less do away with vowels and consonants altogether and speak in a sort of tonal short hand that sounds like bird song. Everett has some links to recordings of it on his webpage and it's really worth listening to. >> But even so, it should be possible to construct a language that's perfectly >> intelligible and doesn't have any sort of universal grammar beyond some >> basic things that are determined more by the world than they are by anything >> specific about human beings, the presence of subjects and objects in >> sentences, adjectives nouns and verbs, that sort of thing. And really, this >> is what Wittgenstein is getting at with his more obtuse statements about >> "forms of life" and the possibility of translating lionese. The strictures >> placed on our languages aren't grammars, but our grammars are largely >> determined by what we are and how we interact with the world. Which, I >> think, is enough to solve the problems that UG is proposed to solve without >> speculating all manner of root level grammar that is subject to the problems >> raised by the Private language argument. >> > Well, I'd have to see such a language; again, I can't generalize. Certainly > language developed in dialog with the world, and as Maturana says, it's a > mutual orientation of cognitive domains; these are also dialectical. So much > depends on the way the world is determinative, if at all, and for me the jury's > out on that... Agreed. Still, I feel more or less confident that I'm equipped to invent a language that's missing pretty much anything that's claimed to be universal, and more or less prove it's completeness. Thanks for the fascinating conversation, btw. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:12:19 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <8C9913E222271C0-3F0-505F@webmail-de07.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Funny enough, tonight, the guitarist Marnie Stern, who was the opening act for Animal Collective at the Coronet Theatre in Elephant & Castle, gave a different story about the origin of the name Korn, but I don't feel comfortable in publishing her version on a family-oriented listserv such as this. So (if you have sufficient noise tolerance) go to one of her shows and call out the question to her: "Where did Korn get their name?" "W.B. Keckler" wrote: I was always told (on the street anyway) that KORN stood for "Keep on running, N____r (an epithet that just had a symbolic burial with a coffin and everything the other day). If this is true, then complaining about ideational content in one of its member's little heads is like complaining that Ronald Reagan's jelly bean jar had too many yellow ones in it. But hey, "Freak on a Leash" is still an okay song... Soul-check me at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...and I'll promise not to head-check you...or headbutt you...unless you like that sort of thing...www.joebrainardspyjamas/blogspot or something like that.... -----Original Message----- From: Thomas savage To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 1:25 pm Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were probably wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about it or anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to look elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so what? Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume it anyway. Regards, Tom Savage CA Conrad wrote: Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a book signing at the Barnes & Noble where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past midnight). He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the occasion. While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when would be the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm going to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views about the war? BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda stuff. You know? Ah. ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about THE SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, but while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to myself that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book signing and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? Wow! Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker about how incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a rock star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen other rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against war, talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it better?" How about John Lennon? What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for bullets for machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine guns for Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? How is it okay for any American to not know about it? How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every single fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT THE NEXT SHIPMENT! I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair is nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's JUST joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a martyr! Worship of a suicide! How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy thought. Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is he voting for? Is he registered? I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:28:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <86abu3xjqm.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > I think part of the reason the art world fell out of love with net art > is purely economic--like the music industry they are struggling to > find the saleable product in a world of infinite perfect > copying. Scarcity/abundance, as you've pointed out. I agree that plays a part in it. Would a corollary be that if/when net art shakes its money maker, it's 'back in'? Independent of the quality and nature of the art itself? Another factor is the relative lack of suitability of Web art to the gallery. I rarely bother to submit work to the galleries, these days, unless I have some connection with the people curating the show because if I don't have any connection, the work is going to be shown poorly in a corner of the exhibit. And probably the mouse is blind, the audio sucks, etc. A gallery show has to deal with the gallery space, but Web art is primarily designed for the small screen on the personal computer in the den or studio or wherever on a common computer with an internet connection running a browser. The net art in galleries does not tend to be Web art running in a browser but applications that use something other than the mouse/keyboard (such as sensors, voice recognition, yadayada) on big multiple screens that use the gallery space and the Internet in ways that people can't experience on their computers at home. > I also do not believe that net art is the province of programmers, not > artists. There are likely more programmers involved in net art than in > other forms of art, sure, but there are also many artists who have > found ways of making net art that don't require them to be 50/50 > programmer/artist. Collaboration is one method, tweaking/re-arranging > existing code is another, and using complex software to do things for > which it was never originally intended. I agree. > There are also very talented programmers who do not identify > themselves as artists, but whose work probably deserves recognition as > art. True. > Here's more Clay Shirky, a ten minute keynote address, this time he's > talking about love as a predictor of technological success. > > http://conversationhub.com/2007/07/10/video-clay-shirky-on-love-internet-sty le/ > He closes with this quote: > "In the past, we would do little things for love, but big things > required money. Now we can do big things for love." > To me, that is very real and massive shift in what's possible for art. Wow. That's excellent. Thanks for pointing that out, Dan! ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: some notes on intention and vaguery In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Alan Sondheim wrote: > >> Well, I'm reading the book differently than you, more like Nagarjuna's >> Middle Way. It opens with the world, ends with something akin to emptiness. >> Since the subject is announced as 1, since there are only 7 propositions >> (if I remember correctly), to say it's 'mentioned briefly' doesn't seem all >> that relevant to me - it's the foundation of the work, all that is the case >> (however one wants to translate it). To just talk about the 'structure of >> propositions' it seems to me is to ignore the fact that this _isn't_ a book >> on logic, but on the world, there are important ontological shifts here >> that in many ware are the core of the work. > > If you just look at the seven main propositions it definitely looks like it's > a book about the nature of the world. However, if you look at the amount of > commentary given to each of the seven main propositions, then it seems to me > that "the world which is the totality of facts" (by TLP 1&2 (which is a > really weird idea, i think, once you really get your head around what > wittgenstein thinks is a fact)), the ontological issues are given very short > shrift compared to the bulk of the book which is commentary on propositions 3 > 4 5 and 6. > > 3 introduces the picture theory of meaning, which is fundamental to early > wittgenstein's understanding of propositions > 4 links the picture theory to propositional signs > 5 introduces the idea of elementary propopsitions and discusses how those are > founded in the facts of the wordls > 6 deals with how propositions are true or false and with their general form > > Those discussions take up 80% of the book at least, which is why I think the > discussion of propositions and how they have meaning is the real subject of > what Wittgenstein is after. > > I agree with you though that I think the place he ends up at is a > fundamentally metaphysical theory, and I also think that the fact that he > ended up there is one of the reasons he felt compelled to revise his work, > for which reading I offer the comments he makes about "the author of the > tractatus" in PI. > I guess the difference is that for me it's not q uestion of quantity, but the overall aim of the book. If it were only about propositions, it never would have had the impact it did (and still does); it would have been emptied, I think, by the results of Godel, Tarski, etc. > > >>> ...<< >>>> With the Investigations the situation is very different. I don't think >>>> the Principia Mathematica was really detailed there; it was on the TLP, >>>> and already of course the paradoxes of mathematics destroyed the >>>> crystalline order in terms of a constructivist axiomatics - of course >>>> you'd have to believe that proof theory's somehow connected to ontology >>>> for the dstruc- tion to occur. >>> >>> I tend to read both the so-called "private language" argument, as well as >>> the comments on intention and vaguness both in PI as well as Zettel, and >>> in the foundational remarks in PI beginning at PI 13 and picking up steam >>> at PI 38 as definitely engaged with the ideas of the logical atomists and >>> the problems with what russell took to calling "the philosophy of logical >>> analysis". >> >> The philosophy of logical analysis and the PM are very different, unless >> I'm missing something here. > > both the target of the PM and logical analysis are finding somesort of > foundations for language. it's clear from the remarks on the foundations > of mathematics and lectures on the foundations of mathematics (which are > fascinating if you haven't read them, btw, particularly the extended > debates during the lectures that alan turing was in attendance at) that > W was very committed to the idea that mathematics was merely a > specialized extension of language that dealt with certain ways of > speaking. I think a lot of what W was up to in PI was trying to show > that such quests for "foundations" in language by either parsing things > out or formalizing everything down to first principles, is a mistaken > pursuit that misses something important about the nature of language, > and it is the understanding of that missing piece of the nature of > language that allows people to stop doing philosophy and come to an end > of their investigations, and to transmute philosopher's nonsense into > plain nonsense. I think that Wittgenstein felt he had to come at it from > this angle in particular given how little he thought of Godel's > incompleteness theorems and the platonism that such ideas led him to. > Well, I agree with you here; it does depend on what's meant by "the philosophy of logical analysis" and I was thinking of something far more formal. Brian Rotman relates to the PI in his radical conventionalism (if that might be the correct term) as did Alexander Essenin-Volpin. Mathematics is something else entirely in TLP, though; it reads to me like a crystall, which in a way explains why the word 'atomic' has been used. It's also why I think it's the end of a 19th century enterprise, and in a very real way, the end of philosophy - which is why Badiou is both fascinating and irritating (to be honest, I read 'in' Badiou; I find the density overwhelming and the authoritarianism problematic.) >> I'm not familiar with this work or Piraha - I'd have to know the language >> myself to make any sort of comment on it. By the way starlings have >> recursion - this came out last year. > > There was an interesting long article about it in either the New Yorker or > the Atlantic Monthly a little ways back. Piraha is a really interesting > language though. Apparently native speakers can more or less do away with > vowels and consonants altogether and speak in a sort of tonal short hand that > sounds like bird song. Everett has some links to recordings of it on his > webpage and it's really worth listening to. > Could you give me the URL? I'm always suspicious (without having read the article) about a kind of blanket statement that's often used - Eskimo have X number of words for snow, Balinesian has no word for art, the Hottentot couldn't count above three, and there are numbers of language which don't distinguish, say, between blue and green. That said, the language- or culture-in-practice does make these distinctions; Hottentot has apparently no difficulty with large number in situ. So one would have to look at the culture in toto before making judgments about particular languages. >> Well, I'd have to see such a language; again, I can't generalize. Certainly >> language developed in dialog with the world, and as Maturana says, it's a >> mutual orientation of cognitive domains; these are also dialectical. So >> much depends on the way the world is determinative, if at all, and for me >> the jury's out on that... > > Agreed. Still, I feel more or less confident that I'm equipped to invent a > language that's missing pretty much anything that's claimed to be universal, > and more or less prove it's completeness. > I'd like to see how you do this! > Thanks for the fascinating conversation, btw. > And thanks as well - you have me thinking about a lot of things. - Alan ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:52:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <241188.75281.qm@web86013.mail.ird.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Did they ever play a program with Hole? gb On Jul 11, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Funny enough, tonight, the guitarist Marnie Stern, who was the > opening act for Animal Collective at the Coronet Theatre in Elephant & > Castle, gave a different story about the origin of the name Korn, but > I don't feel comfortable in publishing her version on a > family-oriented listserv such as this. So (if you have sufficient > noise tolerance) go to one of her shows and call out the question to > her: "Where did Korn get their name?" > > "W.B. Keckler" wrote: > I was always told (on the street anyway) that KORN stood for "Keep > on running, N____r (an epithet that just had a symbolic burial with a > coffin and everything the other day). If this is true, then > complaining about ideational content in one of its member's little > heads is like complaining that Ronald Reagan's jelly bean jar had too > many yellow ones in it. > > > > But hey, "Freak on a Leash" is still an okay song... > > Soul-check me at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...and I'll promise not to > head-check you...or headbutt you...unless you like that sort of > thing...www.joebrainardspyjamas/blogspot or something like that.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas savage > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 1:25 pm > Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity > of his meaningless fashion > > > > > I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were > probably > wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about it > or > anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to look > elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so > what? > Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume it > anyway. > Regards, Tom Savage > > CA Conrad wrote: Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a > book signing at the Barnes & Noble > where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past > midnight). > > He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the > occasion. > > While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when > would be > the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm > going > to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE > http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com > > ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views > about the > war? > BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda > stuff. > You know? Ah. > ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. > BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. > > That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His > nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! > > And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about > those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was > listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about > THE > SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing > SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, > but > while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to > myself > that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book > signing > and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be > blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. > > No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? > Wow! > > Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker > about how > incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a > rock > star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" > > And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti > Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen > other > rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against > war, > talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it > better?" > > How about John Lennon? > > What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid > little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and > electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for > bullets for > machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A > MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine > guns for > Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? > > How is it okay for any American to not know about it? > > How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every > single > fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This > misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! > > WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND > KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT > THE > NEXT SHIPMENT! > > I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair > is > nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at > all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's > JUST > joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a > martyr! Worship of a suicide! > > How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy > thought. > > Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is > he > voting for? Is he registered? > > I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! > > ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > > > --------------------------------- > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com. > > G. Bowering, DLitt. I still haven't opened it. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:57:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: seeking submissions for We mag from Naropa In-Reply-To: <471177C85D507041B53AF1FD4E53DBDB48282F@ADMCLUSTER.njitdm.campus.njit.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Below is a call from Chris Funkhouser for submissions to We mag from = Naropa. ja > -----Original Message----- > From: Funkhouser, Chris [mailto:Funkhouser@ADM.NJIT.EDU] > Sent: July 11, 2007 5:28 PM > To: Jim Andrews > Subject: RE: avantgardes >=20 >=20 > hey jim > I am teaching at Naropa University this week and wanted to let=20 > you know that I am, along with my students, putting together an=20 > issue of We magazine for the first time since 1993. The course I=20 > am teaching is called Creative Cannibalism & Prehistoric Digital=20 > Poetry (see http://web.njit.edu/~funkhous/2007/naropa) and the=20 > main issues we are exploring are spatial representation,=20 > temporal-spatial ideas, appropriative practices, intensive=20 > graphicism, automation, software, sampling, and digital=20 > calculation. The course ends on Friday (7/13) and we plan to put=20 > the magazine together on Friday morning. It is very short notice,=20 > but Im hoping that you might have something appropriate to=20 > contribute. The issue will be published online, and we are=20 > accepting work in all formats (contents will be posted as pdf,=20 > html, flash, soundfiles, etc.). If you have something we could=20 > include, please send it! Itd be great to have your work in the=20 > project send to funkhouser@adm.njit.edu > & please feel free to pass the word along-- could you post the=20 > call on webartery, poetics, etc.? > all's going well i hope > =20 > cf =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:22:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 11, 2007, at 12:19 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > i hadn't heard about kerouac calling bissett a great poet. interesting. He also said David McFadden was an interesting young poet. > > bill has never won the > canadian literary prize. that seems to be controlled by other types of > poets. That's hard to understand. Who are they? Anyway, he has more than once won the BC poetry prize, and may hold the English-Canadian record for highest number of Canada Council grants. Bill know how. Don't sell himn short. > > bpNichol called him "canada's best political poet". Well, he did get a poem read into Hansard, and didn't get royalties, either. > \ GB Under electronic surveillance. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:11:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <180340.14039.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Glad to hear it. I'd hate to think of lost irony wandering the streets. At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your >reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > >Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm >sans skepticism are pretty well >documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I >go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of >skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be >too late to reverse the damage. > >Mark > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: > >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there > >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush -- but > >I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > > >Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree > >that there needs to be a healthy level of > >skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be > >skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary > >to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED > >about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, > >first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make > >actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's > >needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change > >is possible. > > > >Regards, > >Dan > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:18:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: (Jim Andrews's message of "Wed, 11 Jul 2007 17:28:21 -0700") MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jim Andrews wrote: >> I think part of the reason the art world fell out of love with net art >> is purely economic--like the music industry they are struggling to >> find the saleable product in a world of infinite perfect >> copying. Scarcity/abundance, as you've pointed out. > > I agree that plays a part in it. Would a corollary be that if/when net art > shakes its money maker, it's 'back in'? Independent of the quality and > nature of the art itself? Hmm, I don't know enough about the gallery world in general to say with any certainty. I would guess, though, from general life experience that the art world is similar to other groups I've moved in and that there are some that weigh the profitability factor more heavily than others, even to the point of over-riding quality concerns in some instances, sure, why not? This happens in all fields of human endeavor I think. While I would wish the art world to be different, I see no evidence in other related artistic fields to suggest its likely to occur anywhere. I do think there are solutions to the "what's the saleable product?" problem. For example, Java has some very good printing support, such that a Java application (pardon me for using examples from my own work, but they are the most familiar to me) like the 5x5 fully rotatable cube I made for Iowa Review (Web) could be done in a gallery setting and connected to a high-resolution printer with archival paper (like a Giclee print) such that a person could interact with the piece until they found a "shot" they liked enough to buy and a print could be made from their moment of pause. Or the right to (getting back to scarcity) show the work first (like Prince has done with his latest CD in the UK) could be the marketable commodity. Firstness, debut, original from which all other copies are made. But, as you suggest, we want for quality of the work to be the ultimate determining factor--regardless of saleability. The problem is that a purely unsalable product cannot be expected to have a long-term friend in any location where the proprietors pay rent. > Another factor is the relative lack of suitability of Web art to the > gallery. I rarely bother to submit work to the galleries, these days, unless > I have some connection with the people curating the show because if I don't > have any connection, the work is going to be shown poorly in a corner of the > exhibit. And probably the mouse is blind, the audio sucks, etc. A gallery > show has to deal with the gallery space, but Web art is primarily designed > for the small screen on the personal computer in the den or studio or > wherever on a common computer with an internet connection running a browser. Definitely legitimate concerns. I was talking to a gallery owner a few weeks ago about how the downward trend in cost of flat panel displays (that can hang on a wall nicely) might be making web art a lot easier to display in a traditional gallery environment. And then there's installations like Micheal Harold has done, and others are doing in Europe that seem to more actively engage both the network and the gallery space. It seems to me (and I could be wrong in this, I admit) that other parts of the world are ahead of the US and Canada in their gallery recognition of digital art in all its myriad manifestations. > The net art in galleries does not tend to be Web art running in a browser > but applications that use something other than the mouse/keyboard (such as > sensors, voice recognition, yadayada) on big multiple screens that use the > gallery space and the Internet in ways that people can't experience on their > computers at home. I agree that's an accurate picture of the current state of affairs. Some of that may be connected to a feeling that "why would I go to a gallery to see what I can see on my computer at home?" The galleries may figure it makes more sense to put effort/expense into showing the work that cannot, in any reasonable fashion, be viewed outside the gallery. Scarcity again. But check this out. The show I have up now is a series of visual poems I created by taking rubbings from public monuments. At the opening I was overhearing someone "explaining" to their date how easy it was to make them. He was telling her that it's a simple thing to "do fonts like these" on the computer and then just type out what you want to say. When I told them how analog the process really was they were surprised. They'd assumed what I'd done was digital. That suggests an openness digital work I'd not expected to find in a gallery setting. But, I'm talking about digital here and you were talking about web art or net art--things that actively involve the network, or at minimum interaction. It's my impression that installation art and interactive art are both less prevalent than broadcast-only hanging type art in general. So, if we consider web art and/or net art to be proper subsets of what is already a smaller subset it's perhaps not surprising how little of it is being shown. Or maybe the work just isn't compelling enough yet. Or maybe there's no money in it. More likely, a complex combination of all these and other factors. I do believe the prospects are steadily improving, though. There are more and better opportunities now than there were ten years ago, or twenty years ago. And I attribute that in no small part to people like you who have worked so hard over the years to establish its validity. Regards, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:49:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: Come to Series A this Tuesday--Gerdes and Karmin. Comments: To: Holdthresh In-Reply-To: <7ebc05130707111946k4b73f3ffh4652205e95c6305@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Please come to Series A in Chicago this coming Tuesday to hear some great readers. July 17, 7:00-8:00 p.m. Eckhard Gerdes Jennifer Karmin with guest readers Kathleen Duffy, Erica Mott, Sheelah Murthy, Peter O'Leary, Kristin Prevallet, and Marvin Tate The reading will be held at the Hyde Park Art Center(5020 S. Cornell Avenue, Chicago, IL) It is easy to get to the reading on public transportation by either taking Metra or the #6 bus from the Loop. BYOB. For more information, see http://www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html or call 312-342-7337. Eckhard Gerdes earned an MFA in writing from the School of the Art Institut= e of Chicago, but not before one teacher threatened to choke Eckhard to death for producing writing that was too innovative. Eckhard's true teachers have been the voices he heard through literature=97Brautigan, Patchen, Joyce, Beckett, Federman, Barth, Jaffe, Burroughs, Acker, Moorcock, Calvino, Ionesco, and the amazing Arno Schmidt to name a few=97and the voices he has heard through other art forms, such as Clyfford Still, Picasso, Pollack, Kraan, Captain Beefheart, Firesign Theatre, Pere Ubu, Stockhausen, Webern, and, of course, the Doors. These are the voices of the idiosyncratic. They will be heard long after the weak voices have faded. He lives near Chicago with two of his sons, Ludwig and Ulysses. His oldest son, Sterling, is away at college at Georgia Tech. Occasionally, Eckhard publishes *The Journal of Experimental Fiction*. At times, he writes about literature for *The Review of Contemporary Fiction, American Book Review*, and *Electronic Book Review*. His fiction appears in various journals every now and then. *Przewalski's Horse* and *The Million-Year Centipede* are his fifth and sixth published novels. Two more, *Nin & Nan* and *The Unwelcome Guest* are scheduled for fall publication by Six Gallery Press. Jennifer Karmin is a poet, artist, and educator who has experimented with language throughout the U.S. and Japan. She curates the Red Rover Series with fiction writer Amina Cain and is a founding member of the public art group Anti Gravity Surprise. Her multidisciplinary projects have been presented at a number of festivals, artist-run spaces, community centers, and on city streets. Jennifer teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman College and works as a Poet-in-Residence for the Chicago Public Schools. Recent publications include *Bird Dog, Milk Magazine, The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century*, and *Growing Up Girl: An Anthology of Voices from Marginalized Spaces*. As my e-mail list is small, feel free to forward this note. Bill Allegrezza ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:19:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: daniel ereditario Subject: If you haven't heard from Meshworks in awhile... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline New at Meshworks !) Feature: Andrea Brady, Peter Manson, and Keston Sutherland. Miami University - April 2007. Video from a reading in support of the new Chicago Review. http://www.orgs.muohio.edu/meshworks/archive/miami/new-british-poets !!) Tom Leonard. SoundEye Festival - July 2005. Video and sound of Leonard reading poems that appear in his newest chapbook Being a Human Being and Other Poems as well as other poems including all Six Glasgow Poems and "A Priest Came on at Merkland Street". http://www.orgs.muohio.edu/meshworks/archive/soundeye/leonard-tom !!!) New video art from William R. Howe, daniel Ereditario, Keith Tuma & Justin Katko, http://www.orgs.muohio.edu/meshworks/video_art.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:42:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070711221041.05b41580@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find your missing skepticism? Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd hate to think of lost irony wandering the streets. At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your >reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > >Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm >sans skepticism are pretty well >documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I >go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of >skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be >too late to reverse the damage. > >Mark > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: > >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there > >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush -- but > >I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > > >Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree > >that there needs to be a healthy level of > >skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be > >skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary > >to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED > >about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, > >first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make > >actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's > >needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change > >is possible. > > > >Regards, > >Dan > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:50:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Ah Kevin Comments: To: Kevin Killian Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The Wieners I knew, and I knew him long and well, burned with mythic intensity never in his poetic being felt shamed or inferior to anyone. If he felt hardly human believe me he gloried in it. Love, Diane ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 00:45:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: did Lady Bird ever dream of Honest Ed? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love Lady Bird & Hole. AMB ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:29:14 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: archiving local stuffs MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT dear folks, for anyone interested in goings on in hawaii but who doesn't want to receive my "local stuffs" list, i have started saving the list to a blog: http://greenwom.blogspot.com. there are lists going back to may of this year. local stuffs also includes some news from elsewhere. there should also be some old gabe's digest lists from last year. best to all, g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:41:33 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his meaningless fashion In-Reply-To: <7dd7a50bf62cab2044c1d11239aba316@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Who, Animal Collective? I doubt it. But Marnie Stern's obscene story about Korn did concern a hole, now that you mention it. George Bowering wrote: Did they ever play a program with Hole? gb On Jul 11, 2007, at 4:12 PM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Funny enough, tonight, the guitarist Marnie Stern, who was the > opening act for Animal Collective at the Coronet Theatre in Elephant & > Castle, gave a different story about the origin of the name Korn, but > I don't feel comfortable in publishing her version on a > family-oriented listserv such as this. So (if you have sufficient > noise tolerance) go to one of her shows and call out the question to > her: "Where did Korn get their name?" > > "W.B. Keckler" wrote: > I was always told (on the street anyway) that KORN stood for "Keep > on running, N____r (an epithet that just had a symbolic burial with a > coffin and everything the other day). If this is true, then > complaining about ideational content in one of its member's little > heads is like complaining that Ronald Reagan's jelly bean jar had too > many yellow ones in it. > > > > But hey, "Freak on a Leash" is still an okay song... > > Soul-check me at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...and I'll promise not to > head-check you...or headbutt you...unless you like that sort of > thing...www.joebrainardspyjamas/blogspot or something like that.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Thomas savage > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 1:25 pm > Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity > of his meaningless fashion > > > > > I agree with you that everyone should care about the war. But you were > probably > wrong to expect a current rock star to have a coherent answer about it > or > anything. All such people care about is their careers. We have to look > elsewhere for social, political, and intellectual inspiration. But so > what? > Popular culture is mostly empty and geared to the fools who consume it > anyway. > Regards, Tom Savage > > CA Conrad wrote: Brian Welch of the band KORN came for a > book signing at the Barnes & Noble > where I work at today (well, it's officially yesterday, since it's past > midnight). > > He's recently found Jesus (NOT ANOTHER ONE!) and wrote a book for the > occasion. > > While he was signing books and talking with his fans I decided when > would be > the best time to ask him my question. This is the result, which I'm > going > to add to my ongoing poem CELEBRITIES I'VE SEEN OFFSTAGE > http://seenOFFstage.blogspot.com > > ME: Hey Brian, with your new religious values what are your views > about the > war? > BRIAN: Ah man, ah, I don't know, ah, I don't think about that kinda > stuff. > You know? Ah. > ME: But we're in the fourth year of the war. > BRIAN: Ah, I don't know, ah. I'm just trying to get my life together. > > That's it? That's all he had to say? Yes! That's all he had to say! His > nation is AT WAR! His nation has INVADED AND OCCUPIED another nation! > > And I was actually hoping to be surprised, and to be proven wrong about > those who surrender to Jesus. But he's empty, and even while I was > listening to the stupid things he had to say to his young fans about > THE > SOUL that KORN has in its music (really? hm, I don't remember hearing > SOUL!), crap like that, shitty, dumb little small talk kind of shit, > but > while I was listening to all of the chatter I was still thinking to > myself > that MAYBE, just MAYBE he was just trying to get through the book > signing > and had other thoughts to share. There was part of me that wanted to be > blown away by a beautiful, unexpected world view. > > No. Nothing. Zippo! "I don't think about that kinda stuff." Really? > Wow! > > Some super KORN fan woman who overheard me complain to a coworker > about how > incredibly disappointing Welch turned out to be said to me, "He's a > rock > star! Rock stars don't have time for such things!" > > And I said, "Oh, really? Have you ever heard of Bono? How about Patti > Smith? How about Marilyn Manson, or Sinead O'Conner, or about fifteen > other > rock stars who GIVE A DAMN! Rock stars who constantly talk out against > war, > talk out against cruelty, talk about changing this world and making it > better?" > > How about John Lennon? > > What a bunch of bullshit this Brian Welch is! There I am at my stupid > little bookshop job making JUST BARELY enough to pay the rent and > electricity, and my tiny bit of tax dollars are going to pay for > bullets for > machine guns over in Iraq to kill people. But Brian Welch is A > MILLIONAIRE! And his tax dollars are buying truck loads of machine > guns for > Iraq! Is it okay to not know "about that kinda stuff"? > > How is it okay for any American to not know about it? > > How is it okay for every American to not think about the war every > single > fucking day? This is YOUR war! This is MY war! It belongs to us! This > misery is OUR MISERY-MAKING MACHINE! > > WE ARE IN FUCKING OVERDRIVE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS! WE ARE KILLING AND > KILLING AND KEEPING A CLOSE LINE OPEN TO THE COFFIN MAKERS TO PREDICT > THE > NEXT SHIPMENT! > > I'm so disturbed by this guy. His tattoos and piercings and crazy hair > is > nothing more than costume. He's not radical, not radical in any way at > all. He's maintaining the worst values of willful ignorance. And he's > JUST > joined one of the most ridiculous religions on the planet! Worship of a > martyr! Worship of a suicide! > > How deflating the globe seems on the surface of such a pool of greasy > thought. > > Maybe I should have asked him what candidate he thinks is best? Who is > he > voting for? Is he registered? > > I wish I owned a KORN CD so I could SMASH it! > > ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DISGUSTED! > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > > > --------------------------------- > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time > with theYahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > _ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at AOL.com. > > G. Bowering, DLitt. I still haven't opened it. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:04:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Speaking of optimism ... In-Reply-To: <814339.24702.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dan and Jason Behrends are doing a bang-up job of regularly featuring a mix of writers, painters, and musicians over at "What to Wear During an Orange Alert?" I made the "Writer's Corner" this week with my own brand of sentiment: http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 05:37:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <86vecqpdpc.fsf@argos.fun-fun.prv> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Concerning the issue of financing, Dan, I agree with what you say and liked the final Shirky quote you highlighted about being able to do big things with love. A friend of mine, Jack Saturday, addresses the abundance/scarcity issue constantly in his work at http://theworldowesyoualiving.org . Not concerning digital information but other types of abundances created by other technologies. Concerning food and wealth, for instance. It does seem that the matter of the creation of abundance is a recurring issue in the history of many technologies. We live in a world where we create abundance of many things people need, yet too often they are not available to those who need them, despite the abundance. On the other hand, when they are made easily available, the price/value often plummets to the point where the producers can barely afford to continue production. Presumably the poetry food chain is different. There never was much money involved in it. So that that the supply/demand arguments are not quite accurate concerning poetry. Yet the abundance created by the digital has its effects in poetry and any art carried through the digital. Not so much concerning the economics as in shaping directions of the art that deal with cliche--through any number of strategies from radical avoidance to automated cultivation/harvest and reprocessing. Though there is effect in the financial 'economics' as well, such as they are. But I'm thinking more of 'economies of attention' -- I've heard that term used by several people. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:16:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Ah Kevin In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" God, he was a great writer in?a (seemingly) vanishing lyric tradition. What really blew my mind was the interview at the back of his Selected where you begin to realize the man has invented a private language and personal cosmology based as much on the movies as on the people he met in the flesh...the more you read on in that interview, the more you believe the man is not speaking American English at all, but some language that's rapidly?plummeting past dialect into a new language....although in most cases he seems to translate?his poems' "substrate," written in THIS language, back to American English before releasing it to the world...love the way he transposes pure ancient Greek poems into modern American settings...as in his underworld/subway poem about his mother...so beautiful... -----Original Message----- From: Diane DiPrima To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 1:50 am Subject: Ah Kevin The Wieners I knew, and I knew him long and well, burned with mythic intensity never in his poetic being felt shamed or inferior to anyone. If he felt hardly human believe me he gloried in it. Love, Diane ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:26:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Speaking of optimism ... In-Reply-To: <431603.10614.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" What a great interview, Amy, and what a great name for a blog lol! The cover of your book is awesomely beautiful. It makes me want to put white-out?all over?my body right now! But I'm at work so I can't.??Sigh. Be careful, though, on rooftops with poets who don't appreciate your poetics/artistic theorizing. They can be more dangerous than a moose in rut and they usually have bigger antlers. -----Original Message----- From: amy king To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 8:04 am Subject: Speaking of optimism ... Dan and Jason Behrends are doing a bang-up job of regularly featuring a mix of writers, painters, and musicians over at "What to Wear During an Orange Alert?" I made the "Writer's Corner" this week with my own brand of sentiment: http://wearduringorangealert.blogspot.com/2007/07/writers-corner_12.html --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:45:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "T. A. Noonan" Subject: Best of the Net now taking submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Sundress Publications' "Best of the Net" Anthology is currently open for submissions. If you edit an online journal, or if you know someone who does, pass this along. Series home: http://www.sundress.net/bestof/ Info on 2007: http://www.sundress.net/bestof/2007.htm Best, T.A. Noonan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:48:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: **Last Call: Advertise in Welcome to Boog City Festival Issue** Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ----------------------- =20 Hi all, We'll be putting on Welcome to Boog City, a four-day long poetry and music festival, this August. (all details are below this note.) The upcoming issue of Boog City, number 43, will be expanded by 50%, and serve as the program for the festival, as well as feature work from its participants. Advertising information is below. Hope this finds you swell. as ever, David ----------------=20 =20 Advertise in =20 Boog City 43: Welcome to Boog City festival issue =20 =20 *Deadline =20 --Wed. July 18-Ad copy to editor --Sat. July 21-Issue to be distributed =20 Email to reserve ad space ASAP =20 We have 2,250 copies distributed and available free throughout Manhattan's East Village, and Williamsburg and Greenpoint, Brooklyn. =20 ----- =20 Take advantage of our indie discount ad rate. We are once again offering a 50% discount on our 1/8-page ads, cutting them from $60 to $30. (The discount rate also applies to larger ads.) =20 Advertise your small press's newest publications, your own titles or upcoming readings, or maybe salute an author you feel people should be reading, with a few suggested books to buy. And musical acts, advertise you= r new albums, indie labels your new releases. =20 (We're also cool with donations, real cool.) =20 Email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG(2664) for more information. =20 thanks, David =20 ----------- WELCOME TO BOOG CITY A poetry and music festival =20 ------------- =20 THURSDAY AUGUST 2, 6:00 P.M. =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio)=20 =20 Thurs. Aug. 2, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free =20 ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Pavement Saw Press editor David Baratier =20 =20 Featuring=20 =20 Tony Gloeggler Simon Perchik Rachel M. Simon Daniel Zimmerman =20 music from turntablists Dr. Benstock =20 There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. =20 Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 =20 FRIDAY AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum =20 Readings and musical performances =20 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 8:45 p.m.-Gillian McCain 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Tom Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n=E9 The Sparrows) 10:20 p.m.-Wanda Phipps 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. =20 =20 SATURDAY AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. =20 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. NYC =20 11:00 a.m. =20 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair Free =20 Small press fair, this year with indie records and crafts, too. Featuring 1= 5 on the 15=B9s=8Ba 15-minute musical performance at the fair each hour on the 15=B9s: =20 11:15 a.m.-Bob Kerr 12:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr 1:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr =20 2:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 3:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 4:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty =20 =20 5:00 p.m.=20 Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 =20 =20 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-John Coletti 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.- =20 The Fugs, Village Fugs. Performed live by: =20 *I Feel Tractor 1. Slum Goddess 2. Ah, Sunflower Weary of Time =20 *Scott MX Turner 3. Supergirl=20 4. Swinburne Stomp=20 =20 *Paul Cama 5. I Couldn't Get High 6. How Sweet I Roamed From Field to Field =20 *Steve Espinola 7. Carpe Diem=20 8. My Baby Done Left Me =20 *JUANBURGUESA 9. Boobs a Lot =20 *Huggabroomstik 10. Nothing =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. =20 =20 SUNDAY AUGUST 5, 1:30 P.M., 3:45 P.M. =20 Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC $5 =20 1:30 p.m. The Future of Small Press Publishing curated and moderated by Mitch Highfill =20 featuring =20 David Baratier, editor Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) Brenda Iijima, editor Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (Brooklyn) Jill Stengel, editor a+bend press (Davis, Calif.) =20 =20 3:45 p.m. Readings and musical performances =20 3:45 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra 4:15 p.m.-Kimberly Lyons 4:30 p.m.-Gary Sullivan 4:45 p.m.-Brenda Iijima =20 5:00 p.m.- break =20 5:15 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra 5:35 p.m.-Jill Stengel 5:55 p.m.-Mitch Highfill 6:10 p.m.-Nada Gordon 6:25 p.m.-Sean Cole =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., 6 to Bleecker Venue is at E.1st St. =20 --------------- =20 **Welcome to Boog City Bios and Websites** =20 *Thursday =20 **David Baratier http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/editor.htm http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/dabaratier.htm http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com/2005/12/from-his-birth-in-1970-many-= b elieved.html Although he has appeared in print since 1986, in 1991 David Baratier met th= e poet laureate of New York State, at which point the powers of poetry were bestowed to him in a macabre ceremony. Shortly thereafter he became a full time poet. Many believe his previous life is fiction. He and his fine lady Rita, a former model, who has appeared in films such as Traffic, live in th= e deep south end of Columbus, Ohio, where his catty-corner neighbors ask to mow his lawn nightly for $2. He has given featured readings at the Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church, University of Pittsburgh, DC Arts Center, and Small Press Traffic, among others. He is the editor of Pavement Saw Press. His poems are anthologized in American Poetry: the Next Generation (Carnegi= e Mellon University Press), Clockpunchers: Poetry of the American Workplace (Partisan Press), Green Meanies (University of California Press), and Red, White & Blues (University of Iowa Press). His poetry collections include A Run of Letters (Poetry New York Press), The Fall Of Because (Pudding House)= , Estrella=B9s Prophecies I: Spinning the Wheel of Fortune (Runaway Spoon Press), Estrella=B9s Prophecies II: An American Fortune in Paris (Anabasis/Extant), Estrella=B9s Prophecies III: Return of the Magi (Luna Bisonte Productions), and the epistolary and prose novel In It What=B9s in It (Spuyten Duyvil). His forthcoming collections include after Celan (Slack Buddha Press) and Ugly American. =20 **Dr. Benstock http://www.drbenstock.com http://www.myspace.com/drbenstock Dr. Benstock is a turntable duo, in the tradition of Christian Marclay and Philip Jeck. Using Califone and PAC turntables and records found in Salvation Army bins, turntablists John McDonough and Paul Spencer have created a number of structured pieces, as well as improvisations, referencing the entire universe of recorded music. At any given Benstock performance one may hear the Clash, Berlioz, Sid Vicious, Frank Sinatra, Ar= t Blakey, Charles Mingus, Charles Nelson Reilly, Palestrina, self-hypnosis instructions, Bach, Portuguese poetry, Penderecki, and Van Halen. These records are mixed as a collage but never haphazardly. They are combined to make unique compositions in their own right. =20 Dr. Benstock has been together since 1992. They have played venues such as ABC No Rio, the Pourhouse, Tonic, the Knitting Factory, SUNY-Stony Brook, and Collective Unconscious in the N.Y.-metropolitan area, and Caf=E9 Koko in Greenfield, Mass. =20 **Tony Gloeggler Tony Gloeggler was born, lived, lives, and expects to die in some part of NYC. He manages a group home for developmentally disabled men in one of the suddenly too cool parts of Brooklyn. His first chapbook, One On One, won th= e Pearl Poetry Prize, and Jane Street Press put out My Other Life. One Wish Left (Pavement Saw Press) recently went into its second edition. =20 **Simon Perchik http://www.geocities.com/simonthepoet Simon Perchik is an attorney whose poems have appeared in The New Yorker, Partisan Review, and Pavement Saw, among others. Family of Man (Pavement Sa= w Press) and Rafts (Parsifal Editions) are forthcoming in 2007. For more information, including his essay =B3Magic, Illusion, and Other Realities=B2 and a complete bibliography, please visit his website. =20 **Rachel M. Simon http://www.myspace.com/theoryoforange http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/rsimon.htm Rachel M. Simon lives in Yonkers, N.Y., where she teaches writing to high school and college students, senior citizens, and maximum-security prison inmates. Her book Theory of Orange won the Transcontinental Prize from Pavement Saw Press. =20 **Daniel Zimmerman Daniel Zimmerman teaches at Middlesex County College in Edison, N.J., where he chairs the English department. He served as associate editor of the issu= e of Anonym that first published Ezra Pound=B9s last canto and edited the single-issue magazines The Western Gate and Brittannia. The Institute of Further Studies included his fascicle, Perspective, in its series, a curriculum of the soul. He collaborated with American-Canadian artist Richard Sturm on a livre deluxe, See All The People, lithographs, serigraph= s and embossings (Open Studio/ Scarborough College). In 1997 he invented an anagrammatical poetic form, Isotopes. His works include the trans-temporal collaboration blue horitals (Oasii), with John Clarke; ISOTOPES (Frame Publications); Post-Avant (Pavement Saw Press), with an introduction by Robert Creeley; and, forthcoming, ISOTOPES2 (Beard of Bees). His work has recently appeared in Chain, Chelsea, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, ETC: A Review o= f General Semantics, An Exaltation of Forms, House Organ, New York Quarterly, Snakeskin, and Tinfish. =20 =20 Friday =20 **David Baratier (see Thursday for bio) =20 **Thomas Devaney http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/devaney.html http://thomasdevaney.blogspot.com/ Thomas Devaney is the author of A Series of Small Boxes (Fish Drum Press). He presented "No Silence Here, Enjoy the Silence" this spring at the Institute of Contemporary Art in Philadelphia for the "Locally Localized Gravity" show. Devaney writes about poetry for The Philadelphia Inquirer. Recent work has appeared in Jubilat, The Poetry Project Newsletter, and The Sienese Shredder. He is a Penn Senior Writing Fellow in the English department at the University of Pennsylvania. =20 **Joanna Fuhrman http://www.hangingloosepress.com/recent.html http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=3D179254 Joanna Fuhrman is the author of three books of poetry, Freud in Brooklyn, Ugh Ugh Ocean, and Moraine, all from Hanging Loose Press. =20 **I Feel Tractor http://www.myspace.com/ifeeltractor http://www.goodbyebetter.com I feel tractor is available to you with musings of space folk and cut ups. = I feel tractor has a self-titled 7" from the Loudmouth Collective, and a CD, Once I Had an Earthquake, from Goodbye Better. =20 **Mark Lamoureux http://www.marklamoureux.com Mark Lamoureux lives in Astoria, Queens. Spuyten Duyvil/Meeting Eyes Binder= y published his first full-length collection, Astrometry Organon, earlier thi= s year. He is the author of four chapbooks: Traceland, 29 Cheeseburgers, Film Poems, and City/Temple. His work has appeared in print and online in Carve, Coconut, Conduit, Denver Quarterly, Fence, GutCult, Jubilat, Lungfull!, Melancholia=B9s Tremulous Dreadlocks, miPoesias, and Mustachioed, among others. He started Cy Gist Press, a micropress focusing on ekphrastic poetry, in 2006. He is an associate editor for Fulcrum Annual, printed matter editor for Boog City, and teaches English at Kingsborough Community College.=20 =20 **The Leader http://olivejuicemusic.com/theleader.html The Leader rock out with the dynamic grace of two sonic gymnasts (in formal attire). Careening through a thousand time signatures and pop genres, bassist Julie DeLano and drummer Sam Lazzara reign supreme over the low end= , with suspenseful rhythmic patterns beneath wickedly clever melodies and lyrics. It would be math rock if it weren't so soulful =8A yeah. =20 **Rachel Lipson http://www.rachellipson.org http://www.myspace.com/rachellipson Rachel Lipson is a Brooklyn-based songwriter who performs her simple, hones= t songs on guitar, ukulele and banjo. Born near Detroit, she spent her childhood building forts with her brother and sister in the living room, contemplating the dangers of the dark and pizza deliverers, riding horses and playing with friends. Rachel first picked up a guitar at age 16 and a few years later, after having moved to New York, began crafting the songs that would make up her first album, This Way, which she self-released the next year. =20 In 2003 Rachel released a 7" with Rough Trade recording artist Jeffrey Lewis, on Holland's Nowhere Fast record label and self-released her second album Some More Songs. She toured Europe for seven weeks with Lewis and Herman D=FCne in the summer, including the Mofo festival in Paris in July. In the fall, Rachel recorded a new album at Olive Juice Studios in New York fo= r the forthcoming release Pastures on Meccico Records, a U.K. label founded and run by members of Cornershop. Rachel is returning to the studio to record the first album of her side project, The Scruffles, with bandmate Jeffrey Lewis. =20 In the last few years, Rachel has collaborated and performed extensively with Leah Hayes (of La Laque and Scary Mansion), Herman D=FCne, and others. She has also played alongside Eugene Chadbourne, Kimya Dawson, Daniel Johnston, The Mountain Goats, and Refrigerator, as well as twice performing live on WFMU in New Jersey and on WNYC, a division of NPR. =20 Rachel Lipson's music combines a sort of radical simplicity and honesty wit= h intricately woven narratives. The lyrics seem to have as much to do with William Faulkner as they do with Woody Guthrie. The music recalls the earliest folk traditions and yet speaks at the same time to a contemporary minimal aesthetic. While sometimes the approach is blindingly direct and at others masterfully oblique, the overall effect is irresistible, one of invitingly gentle beauty and clarity. (Biography by Blue Bomber Press) =20 **Gillian McCain http://www.twc.org/forums/poetschat/poetschat_gmccain.html Gillian McCain is the author of two books of poetry, Tilt and Religion, and is the co-author (with Legs McNeil) of Please Kill Me: The Uncensored Oral History of Punk. She serves on the board of directors of the Poetry Project at St. Marks Church. =20 **Nan and the Charley Horses http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/nan.html http://www.myspace.com/nanturner Vocally, she's the missing link between Kathleen Hanna and Juliana Hatfield= , with a wail matched only by her whisper. The Lucy Ricardo of indie rock, he= r zany, goof-ball spirit is cut only by the fierce sexuality of her drumming style (see Schwervon!). Raised on the outskirts of Olympia, Nan was studyin= g theater when the riot grrrl movement seduced her into a life of rock =B9n' roll. After several years with the power-pop girl band Bionic Finger, Nan went solo with her jangly, eclectic EP Leg Out, but her one-woman act soon morphed into the all-girl Pantsuit. After touring the U.K. with their French-released The Path From the House to the Lawn, Pantsuit has established itself as a virtual gland of playful melodies, moody sounds, an= d old-school feminist ferocity. =20 Presently, Nan is writing songs on keys and guitar and experimenting live with a rotating cast of musicians she has coined the One Night Stands. Her new EP, For Champs and Losers, Version 1, is out now on Olive Juice Music. =20 **The Passenger Pigeons http://myspace.com/rachelandrew Andrew Phillip Tipton met Rachel Talentino in Savannah while working at The Gap. A common love for catchy melodies, Carole King, and boys led them to Brooklyn. As The Passenger Pigeons (n=E9 The Sparrows), Andrew and Rachel mak= e up the cutest anti-folk duo around! Simple and lovely. =20 **Wanda Phipps http://www.mindhoney.com Wanda Phipps is a writer/performer living in Brooklyn. She is the author of Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems (Soft Skull Press), Your Last Illusion or Break Up Sonnets (Situations), Lunch Poems (Boog Literature), and the Faux Press issued e-chapbook After the Mishap and CD-Rom Zither Mood. Her poetry has appeared in over 100 publications. She has received awards from the New York Foundation for the Arts, the Meet the Composer/International Creative Collaborations Program, Agni Journal, the National Theater Translation Fund= , and the New York State Council on the Arts. She's also curated reading and performance series at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church and is a founding member of the Yara Arts Group, a resident theater company of La Mama, E.T.C. =20 **Lauren Russell Lauren Russell is now at the mercy of an idiopathic need to enter language and manipulate it. Her poetry has appeared in Boog City, The Recluse, and Van Gogh's Ear, among others. She is writing an experimental novella. =20 =20 Saturday =20 **The Actual Feelings The Actual Feelings are an assemblage of egos, chopped separately and throw= n together to make a tasty gazpacho. Their ingredient list is elastic. For this Fugs tribute they will most likely consist of Steve Espinola, Debby Schwartz, Heather Hoover, Andy Gilchrist, Andrew Rohn, and Catherine Capellero, with some cilantro, tomatoes, and peppers. The Actual Feelings manifesto calls for the immediate release of the complete 1965 Fugs sessions, including, but not limited to, the out-of-print recordings once found on Virgin Fugs, Fugs Four Rounders Score, and the alternate, primitive, Broadside LP release of The Village Fugs. The Actual Feelings have yet to hear the song "Bull Tongue Clit" and need to at once. =20 **Paul Cama Paul Cama started to play drums at 14, performing all kinds of music from jazz to blues to pop. He plays jazz in a big band in St. James. He was in the folk rock Americana band Nylon & Steel from 1989-1997. They released th= e album Slip Behind the Molecule in 1995. Cama also is a singer-songwriter guitarist and occasionally play solo gigs. He is playing drums in the impro= v band The Center For Hearing & Dizziness, which improves new sounds to vintage films in the tradition of silent movies. They will be releasing their first full-length DVD/CD later this year. =20 **John Coletti John Coletti grew up in Santa Rosa, Calif. and Portland, Ore. before moving to New York City 12 years ago. He is the author of Physical Kind (Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Boku Books), The New Normalcy (Boog Literature), and Street Debris (Fell Swoop), a collaboration with poet Greg Fuchs with whom he also co-edits Open 24 Hours Press. =20 **CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/CAConrad CAConrad=B9s childhood included selling cut flowers along the highway for his mother and helping her shoplift. He escaped to Philadelphia the first chanc= e he got, where he lives and writes today with the PhillySound poet (www.phillysound.blogspot.com). Soft Skull Press published his book Deviant Propulsions last year. =20 **Greg Fuchs http://www.gregfuchs.com Greg Fuchs is a multi-disciplinary artist living in The Bronx. He works in = a variety of media including audio, digital, photography, poetry, and prose often placed in alternative art spaces including independent media organizations, non-profit galleries, and small press magazines. His latest work is Metropolitan Transit published by Brooklyn-based publisher Isabel Lettres. =20 **Sean T. Hanratty http://www.myspace.com/seanthanratty Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your shower= , by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly enchanting songs in the shower, of course. =20 **Huggabroomstik http://www.huggabroomstik.com http://myspace.com/lehuggacoustique Neil and Dashan started Huggabroomstik on January 7, 2001. The original nam= e they went by was "Toenail Fungus Clippings Up Your A$$ho1e Bi+ch." The firs= t song they came up with was "You Ask For Peanuts, You Get Popcorn, Bi+ch," which featured Benny Hadley singing through the telephone. Huggabroomstik has gone through a lot of changes through the past couple of years, but one thing that will never change is their love for the rock. Not Rock & Roll, but crack rock. So far, Huggabroomstik has been content playing shows in an= d around NYC, but they dream of making it all the way to Nashville. =20 **Juanburguesa http://myspace.com/jonathanberger Jonathan Berger writes about music, reads poetry, and eats Twinkies. In between these, he sometimes performs with his band, Juanburguesa. =20 **Eliot Katz Eliot Katz is the author of five books of poetry, including, most recently, When the Skyline Crumbles: Poems for the Bush Years (Cosmological Knot Press), View from the Big Woods: Poems from North America's Skull (Cosmological Knot Press), and Unlocking The Exits (Coffee House Press). A cofounder, with Danny Shot, of Long Shot literary journal, Katz guest-edite= d the journal's 2004 "Beat Bush issue." He is also a coeditor, with Allen Ginsberg and Andy Clausen, of Poems for the Nation (Seven Stories Press). Called "another classic New Jersey bard" by Ginsberg, Katz worked for many years as a housing advocate for Central Jersey homeless families. He lives in New York City, and works as a freelance writer and editor. =20 **Robert Kerr Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote the book and lyrics for the short musical The Sticky-Fingered Fianc=E9e, and the songs for his plays Kingdom Gone and Meet Uncle Casper, as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations Bearskin and The Juniper Tree. He was a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. =20 **Amy King http://www.amyking.org http://www.mipoesias.com http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/poetics/welcome.html Amy King is the author of I=B9m the Man Who Loves You (BlazeVOX Books), Antidotes for an Alibi (BlazeVOX Books), and The People Instruments (Pavement Saw Press). She teaches creative writing and English at Nassau Community College, is the editor-in-chief for the literary arts journal MiPOesias, and is also a member of the Poetics List Editorial Board. =20 **Kristin Prevallet http://www.kayvallet.com Kristin Prevallet's most recent book is I, Afterlife: Essay in Mourning Tim= e (Essay Press). She is a 2007 NYFA poetry fellow and lives in Brooklyn. =20 **Nathaniel Siegel Nathaniel Siegel is a poet, artist, and activist. He is a volunteer at The Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church in the Bowery and an advisor to Study Abroad on the Bowery at The Bowery Poetry Club. His work has been included in Art Around the Park at The Howl Festival, and group shows at the Leslie Lohman Gallery in SoHo. Poets for Peace, Poets Against the War, and Acts of Art are all groups he supports. He is also a member of ACT UP NYC and the Queer Justice League. His first chapbook is forthcoming from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 **Christina Strong http://www.xtina.org http://www.openmouth.org http:///www.bookwhore.com Christina Strong is a poet and designer who lives in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs published her chapbook, [Anti-Erato] and Faux Press her e-book Utopian Politics. Her poems have appeared in Boog City, Jacket, Magazine CyPress, POM2, and Shampoo, among others. She is the edito= r of Openmouth Press and the politics editor of Boog City, as well as managin= g the above websites. =20 **Rodrigo Toscano http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/rodrigo_toscano01.shtml Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve, Platform, The Disparities, and Partisans. Toscano is also the artistic coordinator of the Collapsible Poetics Theater. His experimental poetics plays, polyvocalic pieces, masques, anti-masques, and radio plays have recently been performed at Los Angeles=B9 Disney Redcat Theater; the Ontological Theater Poets Plays Festival; New Langton Arts Space in San Francisco; Vancouver, Canada; Teubingen, Germany; the Poet=B9s Theater Jamboree 2007 at the California College of the Arts Auditorium, and, most recently, at the Yockadot Poetics Theater Festival in Alexandria, Va. His poetic works have been translated into French, German, Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from th= e Borderlands of California. He lives in Greenpoint township of Brooklyn, and works in Manhattan at the Labor Institute. =20 **Scott M.X. Turner http://www.fansforfairplay.com http://www.dddb.net Scott M.X. Turner's quarter-century of musical output has involved punk roc= k bands (The Spunk Lads, The Service), Irish punk (The Devil's Advocates), sk= a (one tumultuous tour with Bad Manners), soundtrack music for films (a bunch of documentaries), and his one-man/one-guitar assemblage, RebelMart, is currently recording its new album Brooklyn Is Dying. Turner's writings have appeared in Boog City, Elysian Fields Quarterly, Lurch, and others. As a coordinator of Fans For Fair Play and a steering committee member of Develo= p Don't Destroy Brooklyn, Turner's joined thousands to fight overdevelopment in NYC, starting with Bruce Ratner's disastrous Atlantic Yards project. He lives with archeologist Diane George and the dogs Sirius and Tikkanen near Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn. =20 **Ian Wilder http://www.onthewilderside.net Ian Wilder=B9s life has always veered between art and politics. On the cultural side, he has published chapbooks; given dozens of poetry readings; wrote newspaper articles; and hosted events. At a master class, Yevegeny Yevtushenko proclaimed that Ian=B9s snowflake poem is perfect. He has performed spoken word as a part of the near-mythic folk groovin=B9 band Nylon & Steel, and was co-founding lyricist for the duo Spiritwalkers. His work with Nylon & Steel can be found on the album Slip Behind the Molecule. =20 With Nader=B9s 2000 presidential campaign, Wilder was drawn back into politics. Within four years he co-founded the Babylon Greens at his kitchen table, helped run the first full ticket of Greens in his town=B9s history, gotten elected secretary of his county Green Party and then co-chair of the Green Party of New York State. He currently represents Long Island to the GPUS Presidential Campaign Support Committee. =20 Wilder also co-hosts The Green Party Show, a weekly public access TV show, which you can also see posted at his blog. Some of the events he helped organize this year are documented there, including a local UFPJ Peace Vigil= , a pro-day laborer/Love Thy Neighbor Rally, and a Step-It-Up 2007 event at the Solar Cafe. =20 =20 [Sunday =20 **David Baratier (see Thursday for bio) =20 **Sean Cole http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooTwentyfour/coles.html Sean Cole is the author of the chapbooks By the Author (Boog Literature) an= d Itty City (Pressed Wafer), Boog's first full-length, single-author collection The December Project. His work has appeared in Black Clock, Carve, Magazine Cypress, Pavement Saw, Pom Pom, and Torch. Cole also writes stories for public radio and bios like this one. =20 **Nada Gordon http://ululate.blogspot.com Nada Gordon is the author of five books, including the recently released Folly from Roof Books. She lives happily on Ocean Parkway with the cartoonist and poet Gary Sullivan. =20 **Mitch Highfill http://www.fauxpress.com/e/highfill.pdf Mitch Highfill is the author of Koenig's Sphere, and the forthcoming Rebis (Open Mouth Press). =20 **Brenda Iijima http://www.yoyolabs.com Brenda Iijima is the author of Around Sea (O Books). Her book of drawings, collages, and poems, Animate, Inanimate Aims, is just out from Litmus Press= . She was the runner-up for Ahsahta Press's Sawtooth Prize, selected by Peter Gizzi, with her book, If Not Metamorphic, to be published by Ahsahta. Forthcoming from Fewer & Further Press is the chapbook Rabbit Lesson. She i= s the editor of Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 **Kimberly Lyons Kimberly Lyons is the author of Saline (Instance Press). A chapbook from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Katalanch=E9 Press is forthcoming. =20 **The Poetics Orchestra The Poetics Orchestra plays improvisational music with poetry, conducted by Drew Gardner. =20 **Jill Stengel http://www.dusie.org/late%20may.pdf Poet and publisher Jill Stengel lives in Davis, Calif. with her husband and three young children. Jill=B9s poetry has recently appeared at www.notellmotel.org, www.shampoopoetry.com, and www.texfiles.blogspot.com, as well as Dirt and Superflux, and in her recent chapbook, late may (see link above). She has two new chapbooks due out later this year: may/be (dusie) and wreath (Texfiles). Boog Literature published her chapbook Ladie= s with Babies in 2003. She=B9s the editor of a+bend press, former prolific publisher of chapbooks in conjunction with a reading series in San Francisco. a+bend is now publishing mem, a journal of writing by poets who are currently mothering young children, and page mothers. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:05:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Irony In-Reply-To: <814339.24702.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the US. Hence George Bush. Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't occurred to them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden that it falls off the edge? Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? Mark At 11:42 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find your >missing skepticism? > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd hate >to think of lost irony wandering the streets. > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > >reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm > >sans skepticism are pretty well > >documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > >go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > >skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be > >too late to reverse the damage. > > > >Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 09:55:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070712113358.054a71b8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not living in NYC. And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism "sans skepticism" --- In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never held. Amy Mark Weiss wrote: When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the US. Hence George Bush. Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't occurred to them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden that it falls off the edge? Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? Mark amy king wrote: That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find your missing skepticism? Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... >Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be too late to reverse the damage. > >Mark > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... Dan Waber wrote: While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm necessary to imagine change is possible. > >Regards, > >Dan --------------------------------- Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 13:08:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <691932.97390.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Amy: I wasn't replying directly to your assertion because I thought it pretty obvious that I was responding to the idea of a temporal priority for optimism over skepticism, and globalizing for the sheer fun of it. Apparently I wasn't as easy to read as I'd thought. When I lived i the southwest I made frequent trips to the big reservations in northern Arizona. American Indians (many prefer to be so designated) tend to be like New Yorkers, though more soft-spoken--they often speak by indirection and with full irony. God knows they've earned it. Mark At 12:55 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: >That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for >folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not >living in NYC. > > And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous > lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic > because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying > 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism > "sans skepticism" --- > > In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism > without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase > for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) > compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies > because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never held. > > Amy > >Mark Weiss wrote: > When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately > struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed > to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and > often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest > irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New > Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. > SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. > >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts >simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical >distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans >elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I >was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, >sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention >complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be >shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it >wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the >US. Hence George Bush. > >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate >contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their >votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the >proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that >the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of >the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't >occurred to >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. > >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden >that it falls off the edge? > >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This >may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. > >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? > >Mark > > amy king wrote: > That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find > your missing skepticism? > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd >hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well > documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may > be too late to reverse the damage. > > > >Mark > > > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- >but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > >Dan Waber wrote: > While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level > of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to > be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be > secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's > get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world > for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with > skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with > skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm > necessary to imagine change is possible. > > > >Regards, > > >Dan > > > > >--------------------------------- >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:44:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070712113358.054a71b8@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm from NoCal -- autobiographical sequence: Marin County, the Gold Country, Santa Cruz, Berkeley -- there's plenty of irony in all of those places, and I believe I have a healthy (maybe overbaked) sense of irony. which I find to be very uncomfortable now that I've settled in the upper midwest, 'cause most people "don't do irony" around here -- I am convinced that this was a factor in at least one dismissal, because my straight-shooting, echt-Minnesotan supervisor could not understand where I was coming from: after a year, it was curtains for me and my "foreign-born" ironic attitude. can't speak for SD, which has struck me as even less of a "location" than LA, but doesn't Los Angeles have it's own rather tart glaze of irony?=20 "not from around here" then where are you from?=20 location. location. location. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:05 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Irony When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately struck by=20 a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed to in the=20 northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and often=20 misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest irony is=20 considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New Yorker,=20 and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. SoCal felt=20 more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it=20 involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts simultaneously,=20 a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical distance, and=20 also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans elected one=20 outrageous crook after another to public office while I was there,=20 because there's a tendency to accept simple, sincere-seeming=20 assertions at face value, and candidates who mention complex issues=20 or solutions that require complex thought tend to be shot down. My=20 ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it wasn't just=20 SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the US. Hence George Bush. Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a=20 ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from=20 receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It=20 passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious=20 social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have=20 thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate contact=20 with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their votes.When=20 I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the proposition, I=20 learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that the folks who=20 did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of the children=20 and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't occurred to=20 them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't=20 understood the irony of their position. The intention had been,=20 apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on=20 sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden=20 that it falls off the edge? Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because=20 without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This may=20 be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the=20 available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? Mark At 11:42 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: >That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find your=20 >missing skepticism? > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd hate=20 >to think of lost irony wandering the streets. > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > >reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm > >sans skepticism are pretty well > >documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > >go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > >skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be > >too late to reverse the damage. > > > >Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:37:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The relationship of supply/demand to poetry is indeed very strange. There is an enormous supply of poetry but very little demand for it. Outside the community of poets there is almost no demand for it and inside that community, poets tend to be interested mostly in their own poetry and that of their friends only. Jim Andrews wrote: Concerning the issue of financing, Dan, I agree with what you say and liked the final Shirky quote you highlighted about being able to do big things with love. A friend of mine, Jack Saturday, addresses the abundance/scarcity issue constantly in his work at http://theworldowesyoualiving.org . Not concerning digital information but other types of abundances created by other technologies. Concerning food and wealth, for instance. It does seem that the matter of the creation of abundance is a recurring issue in the history of many technologies. We live in a world where we create abundance of many things people need, yet too often they are not available to those who need them, despite the abundance. On the other hand, when they are made easily available, the price/value often plummets to the point where the producers can barely afford to continue production. Presumably the poetry food chain is different. There never was much money involved in it. So that that the supply/demand arguments are not quite accurate concerning poetry. Yet the abundance created by the digital has its effects in poetry and any art carried through the digital. Not so much concerning the economics as in shaping directions of the art that deal with cliche--through any number of strategies from radical avoidance to automated cultivation/harvest and reprocessing. Though there is effect in the financial 'economics' as well, such as they are. But I'm thinking more of 'economies of attention' -- I've heard that term used by several people. ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:03:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <691932.97390.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed What about all the people in SoCal who are from New York? Did they leave irony behind? I rather tend to think there are masses of people on both coasts who just don't do irony, whereas there are still lots of others who do. charles At 09:55 AM 7/12/2007, you wrote: >That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for >folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not >living in NYC. > > And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous > lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic > because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying > 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism > "sans skepticism" --- > > In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism > without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase > for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) > compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies > because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never held. > > Amy > >Mark Weiss wrote: > When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately > struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed > to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and > often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest > irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New > Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. > SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. > >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts >simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical >distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans >elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I >was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, >sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention >complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be >shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it >wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the >US. Hence George Bush. > >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate >contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their >votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the >proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that >the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of >the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't >occurred to >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. > >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden >that it falls off the edge? > >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This >may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. > >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? > >Mark > > amy king wrote: > That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find > your missing skepticism? > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd >hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well > documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may > be too late to reverse the damage. > > > >Mark > > > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- >but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > >Dan Waber wrote: > While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level > of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to > be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be > secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's > get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world > for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with > skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with > skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm > necessary to imagine change is possible. > > > >Regards, > > >Dan > > > > >--------------------------------- >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. Charles Alexander Chax Press 101 W. Sixth St. no. 6 Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 520-620-1626 (Chax Press) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com http://chax.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:11:48 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: ASKING A ROCK STAR ABOUT WAR looking into the stupidity of his In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was very disappointed when KORN broke up not that I have ever listened to them but I had always hoped there would be a KORN / Hole worldwide tour. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 11:19:20 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: <7dd7224f5b61b862961a6afaa09678cf@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sorry George, thought you were joking. By the way Hole never did tour with Korn, but I posted my version before I saw that you had already covered it-- d George Bowering wrote: No, really. Bill has a place in Toronto and a place in Vancouver. For decades when you give him a ride home he gets you to drop him off on a corner and take off before he goes to his place. I used to have an address way up north where he was a short order cook but he doesnt do that any more. It's just that Karl Siegler, is Bill's great champion and also boss of Talonbooks. gb On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:11 PM, David Baratier wrote: > George-- > > That is kind of weak, haven't you known Diane longer than that? I > think you could offer better, but Bill is Canadian so I do not expect > much > from his home land. When are you going to read for me instead of > going to a reds game? > > Anyways Diane, backchannel, I'll find it. > > be well-- dave > > > On Jul 9, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Diane DiPrima wrote: > >> For what it's worth, I knew him back in the day. But I never did >> understand >> what makes "beat" & don't like the term myself. >> >> But does anyone know how to reach Bill Bissett now? > > Contact him through Talonbooks. > > Just Google Talonbooks > > George H. Bowering Wishes your happiness. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:13:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Original Digital Poetry/rubBEings/Language/Cult of Amateur & Abundance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Jim: Many thanks for your excellent questions and for sending the Shirkey and Kenny G. I wrote a response to the latter and the discussion re them, below--but first perhaps to answer your questions. For persons more interested in the the discussion of the Cults--feel free to skip this and go straight to where is written in Caps--"Cult Discussion" Regarding your first question re what materials do i work with and in what sizes do i work-- One of my little maxims for my life and work is "Necessity is the Motherfucker of Invention". (The Japan based Mail Art/Visual Poetry journal KAIRAN published an essay i did with that name abt six years ago.) Since i live right about the poverty level on a fixed income for people with physical disabilities that dictates the limits of materials in many directions while making them limitless in others. (My back's been broken 3 times plus surgeries on arm and hand for nerve damage, 6 concussions, a shooting, a stabbing, burning of large area of torso in accident, hip bone disease growing up, being clinically dead 4 times--a "walking miracle"--they lay it on thick so you'll feel too good to notice the bad news thay are about to break to you right away--as to your rewards for being "a living walking miracle"--as they figure you'll survive somehow on as little as possible . . . what little may be left of you!---as "you always have so far"---hence indeed necessity is a motherfucker--and indeed of invention--as its one's survival as a person that is at stake--) I have no training of any kind in the arts and everything i've made since a kid has been from things found in the street, junkyards, walking in the woods (i grew up in Vermont) and then sites/sights/cites of places lived in Europe. I'd love to make things far larger than i do--wall sized works and movies and sound tracks i dream of awake and asleep, have continual visions of--once in a while i will use a large board to do a mixed media on--still much smaller than i dream of--but pretty much always just what one can afford and carry--cheap letter size loose paper and smaller notebooks of all sizes and types of paper. A friend gave me some good sketchbooks of larger sizes and one square shaped--but i use those sparingly since only have so many. Except on rare occaisions use the cheapest spray paints. Ialso use various things for transfers, some fairly dangerous ones--high powered solvents-- as well as the more common lighter fluid and fingernail polish remover. The material si've worked with have been just about everything you can think of that one finds al around one--metal, plastics, glass, wood, stone, brick, dried mud, plants, bones, body parts, whatever it is at hand. I've also used as "paints" and "crayons" a wide variety of things found--fingernail polish, model car paints, housepaints, acrylics, water colors, oil pastels, charcoal, as well as stage blood, berry juices, my own blood, ashes, unhardened tar, all sorts of found inks and ink pads, mixtures of paints with other substances, burnt sticks, rusty bolts, you name it--i've found ways to incorporate the weather into pieces also--letting rain dampen materials and surfaces and the winds dry them out, while at the same time blasting the surfaces with an added patina and layering of dusts and dirts. All kinds of things can be used for making notations in color or by simply rubBEing into a surface--strange things one would never think of--and used lot of things i didn't know a name for, or quite what they were--just seemed to have possibilities. I've even used dead insects, butterflies and a couple times rubBEings of parts of dead birds. How do I think of the blog presentation? And in relation to/with the physical object? I think the nice thing about a blog http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com is one can choose certain pieces to display in relation with one another and hope with as minimal amount of explanation and/or commentary, persons wil find the correspondances and interrelationships, the poetry of the colors, forms, sounds, words if present. In that sense, one can be making whenever one wants small visual series-little books or chaps as it were--or series of poems being presented in relation with the work of others and other images from the web--fotos and video clips and so forth, music and dialogue-- I think the use of the blog is really too little explored as a way of creating a work in itself and have been working along those lines hoping to find better and better ways of doing this. That's becoming something of ever more interest to me and i plan to work much harder with, as i think the possiblities of creating arrangements of writing and images, sounds, even at the very basic level i have at hand, are very fascinating. I think of my rubBEings and paintings pieces often as a kind of movie happening in the frame of the page--a movie, not a simgle frame.. With the use of the frame of the blog entry one could make one's own extended forms of movies--in some of my entries here and there this is what i have been laying some foundations for, through presentations of series and arrangements of works which are interrealted by assocaitions and correspondances rather than the"direct linkings" of the more linear and conentional kinds usualy empoyed by blogs. I would say that one problem with a blog presenation is that the reproduction, though pretty good, is never really quite the colors one finds in "natural light"--and also i think it reduces somewhat too much often the textures in pieces, some much more than others. Years ago jw curry wrote that there was at a far extreme what he called the "Quick 'n' Dirty School" of Visual Poetry which consisted of Bob Cobbing and myself. The Quick 'n' Dirty i think is a way of being open among the calls of things in a very different way of seeing, hearing, touching, sounding, performing anything and everything as a basis for and with "notation". "Chaos is the score on which reality is composed," Henry Miller wrote. There's a kind of "dirt" and noise/sound/utterance/song in the awareness which one hopes to be able to present and convey to others. Since the digital filters a lot of this out by its nature, one hopes that the works are strong enough to "come through" with still some of their expression and presence intact even in undergoing a processing of smoothing over and evening out of textures, colors, forms. I find it very interesting and a continual inpsiration and spurring on of investigation of various of the themes that come up at the blog--"aesthetics of disappearnce", "erasure" (there's an entry re this which has Rauschenburg's Erase Dekooning Drawing along with altered fotos and the erasure and disappearance of peoples and places--my Indian forebears is what got me interested in this as it happens in all sorts of ways all the time the world over, and in some areas like Gaza and Darfur now with an extremity in the intensification of eradication) -Erasure, disappeaarnce, as well as a covering over or up--camouflage--disguise--trasnlation/mistranslation/distranslation of words and images from one medium to the next--the disparities in presenting Quick'n' Dirty on the web are i find a vast area for investigation and finding correspondances with all sorts of other manifestations of these themes. (Walls are a big theme of mine for example--in many different ways and relating to the Walls In Israel, Iraq and US/Mexico border. As well as walls in the ancient senses of use for murals and grafitti--Walls as immesne boundary markers, obstacles to communication and understanding and paradoxically also the sites/sights/cites for attempts to create create communication/community, peace and understanding.) For example, Dan mentioned that at show he has currrently in a gallery a young person remarked that his pieces looked like they could be digitally made ones. This presents an interesting situation, becuase if the pieces are of the same visual appearance as the digital--then in a sense instead of being "rubbings" they are erasings, for the physical rubbing quality of them has been erased in favor of a much cleaner, more "digital look". The use of monuments is an interesting form of erasure also, since monuments are the dominant, centralizing focus point of public spaces, they act as an eraser of the visual surroundings, especially the peripheries. It's a centralizing State form of territorrializion, organization and control of what is nominally designated a public space but in reality becomes a kind of arena for a "captive audience" held hostage by literally a 'Display of Force" in the "heart" (playing ever on sentiments) of the urban or landscape. You can't really use it agsint itself as no matter what you do to it or its words and images, they still come out as monument-speak and paradoxically begin to proclaim a kind of monumentality for the works and their author. Seeing an anonymous monument with its same old message, one can substitute figuratievly the artist's monument and so it becomes one to himself. In effect, nothing has changed in the order of the monument and what it stands for except that a private person has found a way to profit from its public existence. In Revolutions, Wars and the French Commune for example, momuments are torn down, toppled, destroyed, their dominance of the public space gotten rid of so that the peripheries may become participant. (And hopefully not replaced by yet another monument!) Even if a monument remains, the attention of resistnce and subversion turns away from the center and moves into the peripheries which are everywhere hidden in plain site/sight/cite. For your question re physical presentation of the works-- I shared a Gallery space/show in Milwaukee about four years ago, but as indicated in the interview with me online Kevin Thurston put up the adress for yesterday-- http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/thepixelplus/nhdoublewide2.html --the show featured paintings--and mixed media--and the rubBEings were inside a large manilla envelope to take out and be looked at. (The interview tells a lot more abt physical presentaions and receptions etc-- none of them in a gallery show exept pieces in much larger goup shows now and then in Milwaukee in "alternative" spaces.) That one gallery show got a very large and extremely favorable and foto-accompanied review in the Milwaukee Journal, but since the pieces were mounted only by large paper clips by decision of the gallery, to be in keeping with a "Street Punk" look in their terms, nothing was sold, though they were really cheap. I've been in several other group and shared shows via Mail Art and Visual Poetry exhibitions--over three hundred in about 44 countries--the ones in the Visual Poetry shows get great reviews and all sorts of people in al parts of the city who have seen them over the last ten years since i work outdoors al the time love them and have a myraid takes on them, but again, when it comes to sales i think as i can't afford any but a very cheap matte backing, they don't look enough like "an art object" in an official sense for people to say--i got to buy them!!! (Even one of the cops recently called on me liked them alot--but i'm not going to give any to the police and be charged with trying to bribe an officer of the law.! ) When it comes to selling them--i think if they "looked like" something else--if they "looked digital", or more " trained/high art-like" or bascially more conventionally identifiable and classifiable and had higher quality presentations which i can't afford--that might easily change, who knows? Or again--maybe not chnage at all. I think that the "packaging" has a lot to do with it. But if i changed things to "look like" something else--they wouldn't be rubBEings anymore, nor david chirot david chirot, as the physicality of them and the quick 'n' dirty are really their & my BEing. It's a way of being, not a way of appearances. On the other hand, i know i haven't pushed hard much at all at this yet either, selling, galleries, promotion etc-- for al the years of work involved--so out of necessity going to have to try somehow to find a way--if there is one--just to be able to travel outside of Milwaukee for a change-see my family and friends---or get some pieces of equipment i'd like to try out-- Are there other ways I would like to use the net and haven't been able to-- of course and very much and very many!!! As indictaed, i think the blog entry alone is wide open for invesitigation and exploration--and beyond that i wd like to work very with many kinds of fotos, video, and sound. Sound especially as the visual pieces are smultaneously sound scorings--and performance/dance/event scorings--with video i'd like to try all sorts of things to do with using found tape, and altering physically the tape itself--use of in camera editing and of peripherl spaces and lightnings, speeds of recording movment and time--to get a kind of "quick 'n' dirty" quality--i've done years ago on film--to use these media in the ways which interealte with the dirty in terms of low tech, low fi low budget--and find one's way among these to what i know is "out there/in there"--and from there to things unknown until found--along the way--just as al these things have been, slowly finding differnt ways of using materials in conjunction with thmeselves and myselves and creating what is an Other from these--an uncanny encounter--i think there are myriads of possibilites within even the most "junked" and "thrown out" or "used up" net media yet to be found--and as always that's the area that interests me--what's hidden in plain site/sight/cite-- CULT DISCUSSION Jim--thanks so much for the Shirkey and Kenny G-- I appreciated the former for the historical information though the analysis is closer to a comfortable confirmation determined ahead of time to be in tune with current American views than an opening of some of the very real Luddite re issues and ideas actively practised to day--and not just by the Unabomber--but by many different groups worldwide with differing philosophies and practices related to this tradition. (John Zerzan for example has written some very intersting essays in this regard, among many others.) As for Kenny G--he doesn't make much sense and when in doubt relies on "received ideas" as though amulets of profound and infinite insight, like men who stroke their beards to appear "thoughtful". Marcel Duchamp said that he wanted to disprove the "received idea" expressed in the phrase "bete comme un peintre" (stupid like a painter). Yet that idea persists--to this day a myriad kenny G's suppose that painters, either terrified or liberated by the camera--fled outdoors and immediately started painting ever more impressionistically, expressionistically, surrealistically and abstractly and conceptually--and beyond, back into the neo-baroque, neo-classicism and neo-dada--and into post this and that or . . . In other words, painters are stupid and curiously blind to anything but painting, and the one thing supposedly threatening their art--the camera. Paradoxically it buttresses what Duchamp proposed to revolt against--and supports the formalist traditions in American art criticism and in poetry in the New Criticism and Language Poetry. The painted or poetry "object" gets treated more and more as an ahistorical phenomenon, taking place only within the discourses of its discipline. The issues of scarcity and abundance, skepticism and optimism--comes down to the examples given in the current discusion--which have to do really with, what are hte possiblities for various media for giving the producer opportunities to diversify her/his product line, and for the comsumer to be provided with that greatest of all freedoms: the freedom to choose your particular model within the lines offered by competing producers. It's not unlike being a laboratory rat offered an ever greater number of avenues in the labyrinth leading ultimately to the cheese or the electric shock or the latest toxin being tested. Baudelaire is the first to define Modernism, and significantly, in his "Painter of Modern Life." And of great significance and insight into the differences among painting and the dagurreotype as it is emerging is Nathaniel Hawthorne's novel THE HOUSE OF THE SEVEN GABLES, which is the first fiction to have as one of the main charcters a daguerroetypist, who discourses on his art and trade--as well as containing Hawthorne's own discussions on the natures of painting/photgrpahy and poetry/prose. I'm not going to go into anything from the book as itis one I recommend that people read for thesmelves and find out about the astonishing goings on in there. (Murat and I have discussed this as both are big fans of this work.) Painters were already moved outdoors at the dawn of photograph--Courbet was producing the first great works of Realism concurrent with the revolution of 1848 and the Secomd French Republic of 1848-51. Balzac was in the last stage of his life work, and Baudelaire and Flaubert facing trials for the realism in their works. The ideas of Fourrier and Pourdhomme were being put into practice--by Courbet, among others, a lifelong Anarchist and Minister of Culture during the Commune --and the Communifest Manifesto on the horizon. With the seige of Paris and collapse of the Second Empire in 1870 and the founding and annihlation of the Commune in 1871--painting is being affected by all these things--and many others--the telegraph, for example--making "news of developments" much swifter, and the proximity of cities and movements in the arts, media and society suddenly much closer in time, along with the ever accelarting and more far reaching railroads--steamships-making them much closer in spcae. Photography is but a small part of the events and media and social forces which are shaping art as it moves on from Romanticism and Realism towards new ways of understanding of what its subjects, themes, methods will be. New types of quicker drying pigments are invented which also helps greatly with working more and more outdoors. And with the widespread destruction of the Prussian siege of 1870,, the Commune and then the huge reconstruction of Paris, there is the creation of a much greater panorama of immediately visible bouregois life and the life of leisurely sundays--parks--and trips to the suburbs and nearby countryside all now a short train trip away. Being in the outdoors more and more and studying natural light--of course the painter's work is going to be changing, regardless if there is photography or not, though photography among these others also provides new ideas and questions for use. New colors are being introduced into the palette along with the new pigments--the ranges of tones and plays of light a painter can express grows broader. Types of paper become avialable that were not before, improvements in canvas--and, thanks to the camera, a greater interest in the study of light in "scientific" terms--the Anarchist Seurat and Pointillism. The incredible efforts Messonnier put into trying to be the most exact painter ever of the movements of horses--Muybridge and his fotos could quickly be an aide in, and show how wrong the painter and everyone lse's eyes had been in grasping exactly what these movements are and are made up of when presented as images. One of the reasons for the success of Impressionsim was tied to its ability and interest in depiciting the "brightness" and "light air" of the Third Republic, founded on the brutal suppression of the Commune. (In Bloody Week, the Government killed outright 25, 000 men, women and children, roughly the number executed during the two years of the Terror following the Revolution. Marx in his writings on the Commune is among the first to note that in the name Secuirty, the Homeland and the "terrorism" of the "petroleuses" of the Communards--the State practises a Terror of far far greater magnitude, brutality, extra-legality and inhumanity than the "terrorists" it has created as the ulitmate Enemy have ever been able to accomplish, let alone even ever have a chance to, in terms of the sheer massivness of force and media at their command alone.) In Art and the French Commune Imagining Paris after War and Revolution Albert Boime investigates the ways in which painting, Impressionsim especially, was put in the service of the new Republic as a way of eradicating all traces of the Commune from not only historical memory, and physically in the destruction of the entire areas of its occurrence and their rebuilding as a totally different archietecture and populace by class, income, taste and education--but from an aesthetic point of view within art history and in the art market also. The "soft focus" of Impressionism isn't due to photography, but encouraged by the countours of new architectures, new fashions, new shops, new parks, new "days in the country"--replacing what had been a poverty stricken area of rough, sharp edges and dark shadows, grimy narrow streets, poorly dressed inhabitants, dirty trades, smal windowed shops with little bright display space, and no "local" audience of consumers such as the one that replaced it. Impressionism, as well as being a development in painting's history, is a movement within the bourgoeisifcation, gentrification, of the New Paris and New Republic. It' s very interest in, presentation of the delight in, the plays and impressions of light on colorful surfaces--is a form of erasure and covering over of the wounds of the blood runnning-streets and the annihilation of an entire class of persons within a large area of the city. That kind of huge social change alone has effects far more complex and far reaching in/on/with/for painting than the simplistic idea that a camera has suddenly terrified and "freed" stupid painters from their studios, like so many rats dashing from a sinking ship. Photography and painting have done far more for each other than they have done "against" each other. There's more of a both/and than either/or situation than is generally acknowledged, because of al sorts of reasons favoring "purity" and "seperation" and "privatization" and "territory". Forgive all this background, but it is to give an idea how narrow and simplistic a view it is to think of changes in "art" in terms of the art world solely. "The basis of art is change in the UNIVERSE" (my caps) the great Haiku poet Basho wrote. The art world for al its amibitions and spectacle isn't the universe--or even necessarily part of a great many of the spheres of action and being just down the street from it . . . Changes are happening continually all around one and its one's awareness and partiicpation in relation with them oronly certain areas of them, which is going to affect what happens to what one does as much if not more as anything in the art world per se. "Scarcity" "abundance"--is saleperson's talk to promote the latest manipulation of the market. At any given time the actual amount or quality of things can be the same--as it was last week last year ten years ago--the scarcity or abundance is up to those in charge of the promotion/distribution. Need a big sale to jump start things a bit? Suddenly "an abundance of low priced items available". Market getting a bit saturated and customers hungry for something new?--Let it slip out that's there's an alert--that there is suddnely a scarcity of this precious item!! Better invest in them while you can, for their value will only increase!! Meanwhile the warehouse holds at al times the same number of the items as always, ready to be put out for display and sale as "abundant" or "scarce' depending on the way things are going. Sales slumping? Create a desire for that "retro" look--ie.e al that dust gathering stuff in the attics of the warehouse. Cause the public to be seized by waves of nostalgia for your old products, kept ready for the ready made moment. Scarcity is when you want to do and make things and you can't--"Almost every desire of a poor person is a punishable offense," writes Celine as his Ferdinand is first discovering New York City. For one reason or another, the access ot what you want in the way of materials, funds, a place to work etc--let alone sleep and eat perhaps--when those things are closed off--that's scarcity. Not scarcity of the art objects, or the market audience or gallery space or its converse "problem"--the super abundance of words-- "Necessity is the motherfucker of invention" --you walk around dreaming and sleep dreaming of huge wall paintings, movies, soundtracks--all impossible--but there is plenty of material all around you and a lumber crayon and cheapest paper --well, that's going to have to be it--to realize these and any visions that come along the way-- The same would go for things like net art--optimism/skepticism--just more either/or thinking traps--or just wait until others have gone ahead and when it seems safe--come out and do it-you'll be perfectly safe and have plenty of optimism---but there will always be people who do their vision of art--net art--any art-- no matter what, and have ideas coming from that necessity, inventions of interest and use pointing towards something outside--of the same old system-- even if only for a short while before it in turn is made part of the gargantuan tapeworm motivated maw of the markets and promoters, classifiers, critics, consumers-- The net art and other new media arts and ideas are here--it isn't the market or the medium being used that ultimately determine they're being of interest--it's the work done by those artists who are deeply involved with the necessities of the medium. Interesting work by interesting artists/workers is what creates ultimately, out of their own necessity the developments of media and forms of art and poetry--the rest of what goes on is most of it production by professionals-(it's their job, their career)--or amateurs with a gearing towards or not the professionals--career artists, programmers, poets--who have to keep the lines of production moving and the shelves welll stocked with objects for sale--and jobs for everyone from the gallery's janitor and secretary to the in-house expert and the owner of the gallery --and from there to the critic, the academic teaching the subject--the mass of students learning which examples seem the best to follow--an extending series of circles expanding -- People will make rubBEings or net art or poems out of their necessity to do so--whether or not they "succeed" in terms of the system of production and consumption who knows--but either way they will not stop--and so those art forms will continue on into the future--because given a very powerful energy of endurance in their making--regardless of the attention or commercial viablity involved--they are there for the long haul--not ends in themselves but a part of the way-- This is why i don't believe in yet another either/or--optimism/skepticism--as being of much use--in terms of "making art/poetry"-. For the "art/poetry lifestyle" of course they are very much part of the ways one plays one's part, one's persona or personnae, in the social spectacle sphere-- The kind of "optimism" one finds people advocating is the heady busy kind you find in gentrifying areas where new entrepreneurialism mixes socailly in bars and coffeehouses, galleries, cleaned up, better lit, safer streets with tables on the sidewalks, the bubbly sounds of "a better class of people" moving in and taking proprietorship and control of a city's image, expressions, art/society pages. Because the city as it was has disappeared, and the city as it is is in a state of reconstruction as a new place, the new class moving in can say with confidence that though not long time residents, they already know, love and celebrate this special (new) place. (Not so different than the one left behind perhaps except in terms of scale--and sheer quantities of money, galleries, shops, business of a "progressive" kind, and the greater variety of choices of things to buy, to see, to do, to be had. All for a price that is considered "worth it." ) This kind of optimism looks for the things which mirror it--give it back to itself, in a celebration of itself, its lifestyle, its proprietorships and real estate, consumer goods, its arts and poetries, lesirue activities. Lots of bouyant, safe art and poetry that has a kind of ready-to-wear "newness" in its fashion sense proliferates in the scene and voila--tasty lifestyles of the tasteful and cultured on the move. Towards the end of "Bloody Weeek", as the bourgeois and upper class felt increasingly safe, celebratory and optimistic about the return of Order, Business and Culture, their favorite restuarants and cafes put their tables back out in the streets of Paris and their clients could be--and were--observed sipping exotic drinks, nibbling fine hors d'ouvres and watching, a few meters away, the slaughter of men, women and children of the hated, dirty Communards. Nothing like the erotic frisson of of dining and dating at a fashionable establisment while the "real life drama" of mass murder goes on, with lots of screams, gunshots, stabbings and the exciting, arousing smells of blood and gun powder build ingto their Victorious Climax. Now there's some fine street theater for you, isn't there! Too bad they'll soon run out of people to kill and we'll have to go back to watching mimes and mountebanks, eh? But then--the streets will be much safer, quieter and even a better backdrop for the boundless lifestyles; abounding. Skepticism in this context is usally like "cautious optimism" or "taking a pragmatic approach"--or being "worldy wise". I tend to be extremely skeptical personbut it doesn't seem full bodied enough in some ways. Not enough "robustiousness" as Bob Cobbing would say. It might be better to practise robustious pessimism, because that, unlike Optimism and Skepticism, has the greatest range of senses of humor--extending all the way to the gallows--Gallows Humor-- which can turn oddly into a form of joy--find the childlike "idiot real" present in the most suave and cultured presentations. In order to survive you have to retain your sense of disbelief-- So much of what one sees and hears eveyday is such a complete kind of outrage--that just goes strolling by--as proud as a peacock and ten times as regal as the Emperor in His New Clothes--one needs a sense of the Gallows to find the insanity at the core of it all as something truly hilarious and horrifically true. The Brazilian proverb says: "When shit is worth money, the poor will be born without assholes." and so indeed "necessity is the motherfucker of invention"-- On 7/11/07, Jim Andrews < jim@vispo.com> wrote: > > Thanks for your reflections on the relations of the rubBEings to concrete, > language, the physical/mental, conflict, translation, reading, writing, > speaking, and much else. Yes, all these issues do seem to be raised in > your > work. > > My experience of your rubBEings is limited to viewing the bitmap images of > them on your blog ( http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com ). How big are > the physical pieces, typically? What sorts of materials do you use? You > mention clay and spraypaint. > > Also, how do you think of the blog in its presentation of the work? And > versus presentation of the physical objects. How have you presented the > physical works? > > Are there ways you'd like to present the works on the net that you haven't > been able to do? Or is the blog the ideal way, for you, to present them on > > the net? > > ja? > http://vispo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:59:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: d.c. poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit i'm new to the list. can anyone tell me anything about the poetry scene in Washington, D.C. are there any decent groups, readings... i'm a hermit. i'd like to really get to know the nations capital. --------------------------------- The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: TONIGHT JOANNE KYGER CITY LIGHTS CELEBRATE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit JOANNE KYGER Thursday, July 12th, 7pm Joanne Kyger celebrating the release of About Now: Collected Poems, published by the National Poetry Foundation City Lights 261 Columbus Avenue at Broadway (North Beach) San Francisco, California 94133 Tel (415) 362-8193 For decades, Joanne Kyger has played a crucial role in California's poetry scene. Her poetry has been influenced by her studies in Zen Buddhism and her connection to the poets of Black Mountain, the San Francisco Renaissance, and the Beat Generation. Her latest collection, About Now: Collected Poems, forthcoming from National Poetry Foundation, promises to be a definitive collection, highlighting an excellent sampling of her work. She frequently teaches at New College and the Jack Kerouac School of Disembodied Poetics. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:21:50 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barry Schwabsky Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <247977.36191.qm@web31115.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Barnett Newman said that an artist writes when he needs something to read. Likewise a poet. Our aim (never achieved but often more and more so as one grows older) is to supply our own demand. Thomas savage wrote: The relationship of supply/demand to poetry is indeed very strange. There is an enormous supply of poetry but very little demand for it. Outside the community of poets there is almost no demand for it and inside that community, poets tend to be interested mostly in their own poetry and that of their friends only. Jim Andrews wrote: Concerning the issue of financing, Dan, I agree with what you say and liked the final Shirky quote you highlighted about being able to do big things with love. A friend of mine, Jack Saturday, addresses the abundance/scarcity issue constantly in his work at http://theworldowesyoualiving.org . Not concerning digital information but other types of abundances created by other technologies. Concerning food and wealth, for instance. It does seem that the matter of the creation of abundance is a recurring issue in the history of many technologies. We live in a world where we create abundance of many things people need, yet too often they are not available to those who need them, despite the abundance. On the other hand, when they are made easily available, the price/value often plummets to the point where the producers can barely afford to continue production. Presumably the poetry food chain is different. There never was much money involved in it. So that that the supply/demand arguments are not quite accurate concerning poetry. Yet the abundance created by the digital has its effects in poetry and any art carried through the digital. Not so much concerning the economics as in shaping directions of the art that deal with cliche--through any number of strategies from radical avoidance to automated cultivation/harvest and reprocessing. Though there is effect in the financial 'economics' as well, such as they are. But I'm thinking more of 'economies of attention' -- I've heard that term used by several people. ja http://vispo.com --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070712130304.054a9628@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with english, for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > Amy: > > I wasn't replying directly to your assertion because I thought it > pretty obvious that I was responding to the idea of a temporal > priority for optimism over skepticism, and globalizing for the sheer > fun of it. Apparently I wasn't as easy to read as I'd thought. > > When I lived i the southwest I made frequent trips to the big > reservations in northern Arizona. American Indians (many prefer to be > so designated) tend to be like New Yorkers, though more > soft-spoken--they often speak by indirection and with full irony. God > knows they've earned it. > > Mark > > At 12:55 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: > >That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for > >folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not > >living in NYC. > > > > And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous > > lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic > > because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying > > 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism > > "sans skepticism" --- > > > > In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism > > without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase > > for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) > > compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies > > because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never held. > > > > Amy > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately > > struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed > > to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and > > often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest > > irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New > > Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. > > SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. > > > >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it > >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts > >simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical > >distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans > >elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I > >was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, > >sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention > >complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be > >shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it > >wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the > >US. Hence George Bush. > > > >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a > >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from > >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It > >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious > >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have > >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate > >contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their > >votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the > >proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that > >the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of > >the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't > >occurred to > >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't > >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, > >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. > > > >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on > >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden > >that it falls off the edge? > > > >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because > >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This > >may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. > > > >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the > >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? > > > >Mark > > > > amy king wrote: > > That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find > > your missing skepticism? > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd > >hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. > > > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > > reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well > > documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > > go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > > skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may > > be too late to reverse the damage. > > > > > >Mark > > > > > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there > >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- > >but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > > > > >Dan Waber wrote: > > While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level > > of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to > > be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be > > secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's > > get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world > > for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with > > skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with > > skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm > > necessary to imagine change is possible. > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Dan > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:21:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69AFD@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.E RF.THOMSON.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed SD's anglo population is largely northern midwest, so this makes sense. Also my observation of LA is same as yours--more given to irony than San Francisco, even. But LA is a world unto itself. I actually love LA, but consider that a perverse passion. SD is all too much a place, I'm afraid. The reason I changed the subject heading was in hopes of stimulating this discussion, rather than continuing one about the relative merits of skepticism and optimism about the web. We've got a fair spread geographically among listlings. Could be informative. Mark At 12:44 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: >I'm from NoCal -- autobiographical sequence: Marin County, the Gold >Country, Santa Cruz, Berkeley -- there's plenty of irony in all of those >places, and I believe I have a healthy (maybe overbaked) sense of irony. > > >which I find to be very uncomfortable now that I've settled in the upper >midwest, 'cause most people "don't do irony" around here -- I am >convinced that this was a factor in at least one dismissal, because my >straight-shooting, echt-Minnesotan supervisor could not understand where >I was coming from: after a year, it was curtains for me and my >"foreign-born" ironic attitude. > >can't speak for SD, which has struck me as even less of a "location" >than LA, but doesn't Los Angeles have it's own rather tart glaze of >irony? > >"not from around here" >then where are you from? >location. location. location. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >On Behalf Of Mark Weiss >Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:05 >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Irony > >When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately struck by >a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed to in the >northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and often >misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest irony is >considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New Yorker, >and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. SoCal felt >more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. > >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts simultaneously, >a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical distance, and >also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans elected one >outrageous crook after another to public office while I was there, >because there's a tendency to accept simple, sincere-seeming >assertions at face value, and candidates who mention complex issues >or solutions that require complex thought tend to be shot down. My >ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it wasn't just >SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the US. Hence George >Bush. > >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate contact >with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their votes.When >I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the proposition, I >learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that the folks who >did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of the children >and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't occurred to >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving >services. > >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden >that it falls off the edge? > >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This may >be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. > >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? > >Mark > >At 11:42 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: > >That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find your > >missing skepticism? > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd hate > >to think of lost irony wandering the streets. > > > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, you wrote: > > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > > >reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: The evils of enthusiasm > > >sans skepticism are pretty well > > >documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > > >go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > > >skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may be > > >too late to reverse the damage. > > > > > >Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:29:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: 10 Polaroid Sex Up JBP tonight/Joe Brainard's Pyjamas Goes Porn Tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm so there in spirit to celebrate Joanne Kyger. She and Phil Whalen have always been my favorite Beats by a BIG margin. Joe Brainard's Pyjamas posts 10 Polaroids by yours truly, including a tribute to Californian porn, and other ochreous earth delights...stop in at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) and I'll pick the lint off YOUR jammies.... ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:09:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070712161559.054d3d28@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > If you have been to PetCo ParK in San Diego you know that there is no irony in San Diego. Mr. G. Bowering Okanagan born. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:12:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: Wanted: French language scholar to peer-review a translation of Vaneigem Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Perhaps not the best place for this, but I'm looking for a French language/literature scholar who is familiar with the writing of Raoul Vaneigem to review a translation for possible inclusion in the Factory School Southpaw Culture series. If you are interested in Vangeigm and have access to the French originals, please write me back channel. Referrals welcome and encouraged. Thanks, Joel K. Free University of New York ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:56:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Documenting Temporary Art Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed THE AVANT GARDE MUSEUM OF TEMPORARY ART presents Documenting Temporary Art Tagline: Photo Mob =97 Frozen Inspiration Post your enduring photgraphs of temporary art in the Avant Garde =20 Museum of Temporary Art Facebook gallery. I set this event up to last =20= until Friday, August 10th. One attends by dropping off some photos =20 documenting temporary art, preferably from one's own surroundings. NOW COLLECTING SUBMISSIONS Collection period ends Friday, August 10, 2007 at 2:00am. http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=3D2528651113&ref=3Dnf (you will need to be logged into Facebook to view/post) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 15:35:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Joyce & Beckett & Wilde, anyone?=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabrielle Welford Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 15:18 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Irony lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with english, for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > Amy: > > I wasn't replying directly to your assertion because I thought it > pretty obvious that I was responding to the idea of a temporal > priority for optimism over skepticism, and globalizing for the sheer > fun of it. Apparently I wasn't as easy to read as I'd thought. > > When I lived i the southwest I made frequent trips to the big > reservations in northern Arizona. American Indians (many prefer to be > so designated) tend to be like New Yorkers, though more > soft-spoken--they often speak by indirection and with full irony. God > knows they've earned it. > > Mark > > At 12:55 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: > >That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for > >folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not > >living in NYC. > > > > And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous > > lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic > > because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying > > 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism > > "sans skepticism" --- > > > > In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism > > without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase > > for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) > > compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies > > because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never held. > > > > Amy > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately > > struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed > > to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and > > often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest > > irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New > > Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. > > SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. > > > >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it > >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts > >simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical > >distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans > >elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I > >was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, > >sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention > >complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be > >shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it > >wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the > >US. Hence George Bush. > > > >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a > >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from > >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It > >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious > >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have > >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate > >contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their > >votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the > >proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that > >the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of > >the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't > >occurred to > >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't > >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, > >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. > > > >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on > >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden > >that it falls off the edge? > > > >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because > >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This > >may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. > > > >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the > >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? > > > >Mark > > > > amy king wrote: > > That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find > > your missing skepticism? > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd > >hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. > > > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > > reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well > > documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > > go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > > skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may > > be too late to reverse the damage. > > > > > >Mark > > > > > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there > >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- > >but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > > > > >Dan Waber wrote: > > While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level > > of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to > > be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be > > secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's > > get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world > > for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with > > skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with > > skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm > > necessary to imagine change is possible. > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Dan > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:11:41 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Betsy Fagin Subject: Re: D.C. poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I believe there are loads of DC-based poets on this list who'll step up to represent, but http://dcpoetry.com/ is a good place to start. Betsy ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:40:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <6882989a44a3da27a7476d19f494507e@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit George, What's at PetCo Park? Why does that park mean there is no San Dieg-an irony? Chris Quoting George Bowering : > > > If you have been to PetCo ParK in San Diego > you know that there is no irony in San Diego. > > > Mr. G. Bowering > Okanagan born. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:35:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >What about all the people in SoCal who are from New York? Did they >leave irony behind? I rather tend to think there are masses of >people on both coasts who just don't do irony, whereas there are >still lots of others who do. > >charles Charles: There are lots of people from the northeast (not just New York--the irony belt stretches at least from Boston to DC) in central LA, but they're a much smaller percentage of the population in the rest of SoCal, whether San Bernadino, San Diego, San Luis Obispo or Santa Barbara. The northeast presence you and I know in San Diego is in the academic world, an exile community there as elsewhere. I didn't live in that world. I was usually the only person from the northeast in any group in which I participated, including several hiking clubs, the Sierra Club, groups with no built-in regional origin selectivity. I'm speaking only about the anglo community. I had a lot of friends in the Mexican community. Very different, more like the near parts of Mexico, or for that matter NY. In NY at any rate the folks who don't do irony are in my experience rare--I'd guess that if they exist they're brain-damaged. It's just a part of the culture. At 04:17 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: >lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with english, >for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g Gabrielle: I lived in France and have spent a fair amount of time in the British Isles and Italy. I was and remain very comfortable there. Feels a lot like New York. I think the lack of irony may be really a US regional phenomenon (with large political and cultural consequences). The prevalence of irony may depend upon the influence of large numbers of people with an enduring history of loss that functions as a unifying myth. Certainly the Irish qualify, as do most Europeans. But it's also possible--I really don't know and would love to be enlightened--that there's something specific to the largely Lutheran culture of the center of the country and its diasporic community in California, and perhaps to the Protestant south that breeds a distaste for irony. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:29:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: gfrym@EARTHLINK.NET Subject: Re: Irony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Am entering this conversation a bit late, but did anyone notice that just before July 4th, a bunch of immigrants took their U.S. citizenship oaths at Cinderella's Castle in DisneyWorld, Florida? Gloria Frym ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom W. Lewis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:35 PM Subject: Re: Irony James Joyce & Beckett & Wilde, anyone? -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabrielle Welford Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 15:18 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Irony lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with english, for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > Amy: > > I wasn't replying directly to your assertion because I thought it > pretty obvious that I was responding to the idea of a temporal > priority for optimism over skepticism, and globalizing for the sheer > fun of it. Apparently I wasn't as easy to read as I'd thought. > > When I lived i the southwest I made frequent trips to the big > reservations in northern Arizona. American Indians (many prefer to be > so designated) tend to be like New Yorkers, though more > soft-spoken--they often speak by indirection and with full irony. God > knows they've earned it. > > Mark > > At 12:55 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: > >That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for > >folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not > >living in NYC. > > > > And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous > > lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic > > because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying > > 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism > > "sans skepticism" --- > > > > In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism > > without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase > > for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) > > compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies > > because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never held. > > > > Amy > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately > > struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed > > to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and > > often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest > > irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New > > Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. > > SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and well. > > > >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it > >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts > >simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical > >distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans > >elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I > >was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, > >sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention > >complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be > >shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it > >wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the > >US. Hence George Bush. > > > >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a > >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from > >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It > >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious > >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have > >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate > >contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their > >votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the > >proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that > >the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of > >the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't > >occurred to > >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't > >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, > >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving services. > > > >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on > >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden > >that it falls off the edge? > > > >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because > >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This > >may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. > > > >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the > >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? > > > >Mark > > > > amy king wrote: > > That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find > > your missing skepticism? > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd > >hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. > > > >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your > > reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... > > > > >Mark Weiss wrote: > > The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well > > documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I > > go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of > > skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may > > be too late to reverse the damage. > > > > > >Mark > > > > > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: > >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there > >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- > >but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the poets ... > > > > > >Dan Waber wrote: > > While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level > > of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to > > be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be > > secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's > > get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world > > for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with > > skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with > > skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm > > necessary to imagine change is possible. > > > > > >Regards, > > > >Dan > > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. > > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:33:37 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Croggon Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <54AA9B41BC35F34EAD02E660901D8A5A0EE69B08@TLRUSMNEAGMBX10.ERF.THOMSON.COM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Australians (like the Cornish) do a good line in po-faced irony, and so are constantly offending people, sometimes by mistake. Of course, it's all in the inflection, and that language is generally understood, but outside the culture it can get you into trouble. It's very Australian, for example, to express affection through insult, although sometimes a insult can be an insult. It's all in the delivery. There's that famous story about Don Bradman (legendary cricketer and captain of the Australian side). When one of the Australian team called an English captain a "bastard", the English captain complained. Bradman went down to the changerooms with said English captain and said to the team: "Which one of you bastards called this bastard a bastard?" My favourite story about Cornish humour was one my mother used to tell, about an English gentleman who moved to Cornwall and started a vineyard. The local farmers would hang over his fence and ask how his beans were going. He could never persuade them that he was growing grapes, and so thought they were very quaint and rustic; he never realised they were gently poking fun at him. xA -- Editor, Masthead: http://www.masthead.net.au Blog: http://theatrenotes.blogspot.com Home page: http://www.alisoncroggon.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:47:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: Irony/Inherent Contempt In-Reply-To: <000301c7c4e4$f2706bf0$6501a8c0@VAIO> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, and maybe that plays a role in why I got excited last night by the phrase "Inherent Contempt" (a power granted congress by the constitution, that I pray may be exercised before I press this 'send' button)... On Jul 12, 2007, at 5:29 PM, gfrym@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > Am entering this conversation a bit late, but did anyone notice > that just before July 4th, a bunch of immigrants took their U.S. > citizenship oaths at Cinderella's Castle in DisneyWorld, Florida? > > > Gloria Frym > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom W. Lewis" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: Irony > > > James Joyce & Beckett & Wilde, anyone? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Gabrielle Welford > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Irony > > lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with > english, > for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: > 2/27/2007 > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> Amy: >> >> I wasn't replying directly to your assertion because I thought it >> pretty obvious that I was responding to the idea of a temporal >> priority for optimism over skepticism, and globalizing for the sheer >> fun of it. Apparently I wasn't as easy to read as I'd thought. >> >> When I lived i the southwest I made frequent trips to the big >> reservations in northern Arizona. American Indians (many prefer to be >> so designated) tend to be like New Yorkers, though more >> soft-spoken--they often speak by indirection and with full irony. God >> knows they've earned it. >> >> Mark >> >> At 12:55 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: >> >That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for >> >folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not >> >living in NYC. >> > >> > And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous >> > lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic >> > because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying >> > 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism >> > "sans skepticism" --- >> > >> > In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism >> > without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase >> > for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) >> > compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies >> > because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never > held. >> > >> > Amy >> > >> >Mark Weiss wrote: >> > When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately >> > struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed >> > to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and >> > often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest >> > irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New >> > Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. >> > SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and > well. >> > >> >The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it >> >involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts >> >simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical >> >distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans >> >elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I >> >was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, >> >sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention >> >complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be >> >shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it >> >wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the >> >US. Hence George Bush. >> > >> >Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a >> >ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from >> >receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It >> >passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious >> >social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have >> >thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate >> >contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their >> >votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the >> >proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that >> >the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of >> >the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't >> >occurred to >> >them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't >> >understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, >> >apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving > services. >> > >> >But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on >> >sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden >> >that it falls off the edge? >> > >> >Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because >> >without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This >> >may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. >> > >> >On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the >> >available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? >> > >> >Mark >> > >> > amy king wrote: >> > That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find >> > your missing skepticism? >> > >> >Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd >> >hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. >> > >> >At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >> > >Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your >> > reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... >> > >> > >Mark Weiss wrote: >> > The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well >> > documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I >> > go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of >> > skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may >> > be too late to reverse the damage. >> > > >> > >Mark >> > > >> > >At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >> >It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there >> >seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- >> >but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the > poets ... >> > >> > >> >Dan Waber wrote: >> > While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level >> > of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to >> > be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be >> > secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's >> > get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world >> > for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with >> > skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with >> > skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm >> > necessary to imagine change is possible. >> > >> > > >Regards, >> > > >Dan >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >--------------------------------- >> >Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. >> > Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:50:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Subject: Re: 'The Cult of the Amateur?-- Poetry and Art In-Reply-To: <511384.58324.qm@web86010.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Or as the song puts it: The void is luggage holds you back but you return for one last snack Empty fire's not so wild demand's a parent, supply's a child (false glamour lures you here but you have to pass through it to get better love will lose its looks so tonight you want to get inside its sweater) On Jul 12, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Barry Schwabsky wrote: > Barnett Newman said that an artist writes when he needs something > to read. Likewise a poet. Our aim (never achieved but often more > and more so as one grows older) is to supply our own demand. > > Thomas savage wrote: The relationship of > supply/demand to poetry is indeed very strange. There is an > enormous supply of poetry but very little demand for it. Outside > the community of poets there is almost no demand for it and inside > that community, poets tend to be interested mostly in their own > poetry and that of their friends only. > > Jim Andrews wrote: Concerning the issue of financing, Dan, I agree > with what you say and liked > the final Shirky quote you highlighted about being able to do big > things > with love. > > A friend of mine, Jack Saturday, addresses the abundance/scarcity > issue > constantly in his work at http://theworldowesyoualiving.org . Not > concerning > digital information but other types of abundances created by other > technologies. Concerning food and wealth, for instance. It does > seem that > the matter of the creation of abundance is a recurring issue in the > history > of many technologies. We live in a world where we create abundance > of many > things people need, yet too often they are not available to those > who need > them, despite the abundance. On the other hand, when they are made > easily > available, the price/value often plummets to the point where the > producers > can barely afford to continue production. > > Presumably the poetry food chain is different. There never was much > money > involved in it. So that that the supply/demand arguments are not quite > accurate concerning poetry. Yet the abundance created by the > digital has its > effects in poetry and any art carried through the digital. Not so much > concerning the economics as in shaping directions of the art that > deal with > cliche--through any number of strategies from radical avoidance to > automated > cultivation/harvest and reprocessing. Though there is effect in the > financial 'economics' as well, such as they are. But I'm thinking > more of > 'economies of attention' -- I've heard that term used by several > people. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > > > --------------------------------- > Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s > user panel and lay it on us. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:06:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <000301c7c4e4$f2706bf0$6501a8c0@VAIO> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Or the big number of 'illegal' soldiers with Latino names who take their citizenship oaths in the Green Zone - except for those who get killed in action prior to their promised ceremonial date! That ain't ironic - that's just tragic. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > Am entering this conversation a bit late, but did anyone notice that just > before July 4th, a bunch of immigrants took their U.S. citizenship oaths at > Cinderella's Castle in DisneyWorld, Florida? > > > Gloria Frym > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom W. Lewis" > To: > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 1:35 PM > Subject: Re: Irony > > > James Joyce & Beckett & Wilde, anyone? > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Gabrielle Welford > Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 15:18 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: Irony > > lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with > english, > for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: > 2/27/2007 > > On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > >> Amy: >> >> I wasn't replying directly to your assertion because I thought it >> pretty obvious that I was responding to the idea of a temporal >> priority for optimism over skepticism, and globalizing for the sheer >> fun of it. Apparently I wasn't as easy to read as I'd thought. >> >> When I lived i the southwest I made frequent trips to the big >> reservations in northern Arizona. American Indians (many prefer to be >> so designated) tend to be like New Yorkers, though more >> soft-spoken--they often speak by indirection and with full irony. God >> knows they've earned it. >> >> Mark >> >> At 12:55 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: >>> That's an interesting lesson on irony, Mark, probably moreso for >>> folks living in SoCal, and according to your ex-wife, anyone not >>> living in NYC. >>> >>> And yet, I don't quite get the connection with your previous >>> lesson on the major tragedies that was unintentionally ironic >>> because it was based on your misreading Dan and myself saying >>> 'skepticism should be secondary to optimism' as a call for optimism >>> "sans skepticism" --- >>> >>> In fact, your assumption that we were calling for optimism >>> without skepticism was fabricated and your repeating Dan's phrase >>> for "a healthy dose of skepticism" as your own (see below) >>> compounded the irony of providing a lesson in the world's tragedies >>> because it was intended to persuade us from a position we never > held. >>> >>> Amy >>> >>> Mark Weiss wrote: >>> When I first moved to Southern California I was immediately >>> struck by a diffrerent attitude towards irony than I was accustomed >>> to in the northeast. Irony is rarely practiced by the locals, and >>> often misunderstood or understood only slowly. Even the mildest >>> irony is considered a form of extremely hostile behavior. I'm a New >>> Yorker, and a jew, and irony is deeply embedded in my culture. >>> SoCal felt more foreign to me than Mexico, where irony is alive and > well. >>> >>> The lack of irony can be a pretty severe disability. Essentially, it >>> involves being able to entertain two opposed thoughts >>> simultaneously, a necessary precondition for skepticism and critical >>> distance, and also the foreseeing of consequences. San Diegans >>> elected one outrageous crook after another to public office while I >>> was there, because there's a tendency to accept simple, >>> sincere-seeming assertions at face value, and candidates who mention >>> complex issues or solutions that require complex thought tend to be >>> shot down. My ex-wife, who was from North Carolina, said that it >>> wasn't just SoCal--that what I was complaining about is most of the >>> US. Hence George Bush. >>> >>> Here's a local example. Anglo San Diegans voted overwhelmingly for a >>> ballot proposition to bar the children of illegal immigrants from >>> receiving any state benefits, like education and health care. It >>> passed, but was knocked down by the courts. Aside from the obvious >>> social problems the proposition would have entailed, one would have >>> thought that the fact that anglo San Diegans live in intimate >>> contact with illegal immigrants would have been a factor in their >>> votes.When I talked to my neighbors, who had voted for the >>> proposition, I learned that it hadn't been. Everyone was aware that >>> the folks who did the gardening, cleaned the house, and took care of >>> the children and the elderly were illegal immigrants, but it hadn't >>> occurred to >>> them that the proposition would impact their children--they hadn't >>> understood the irony of their position. The intention had been, >>> apparently, to forbid the children of an abstraction from receiving > services. >>> >>> But what can one expect from people who live in the desert on >>> sandstone cliffs and soak their lawns until the ground is so sodden >>> that it falls off the edge? >>> >>> Optimism is a fine and necessary thing. It's also adaptive, because >>> without it few would propogate offspring except by accident. This >>> may be why it's more prevalent among those of reproductive age. >>> >>> On the other hand, there are already a lot of people for the >>> available resources. Reproductive irony anyone? >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> amy king wrote: >>> That one would have been no loss at all, but did you ever find >>> your missing skepticism? >>> >>> Mark Weiss wrote: Glad to hear it. I'd >>> hate to think of lost irony wandering the treets. >>> >>> At 07:11 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >>>> Um, whoever said anything about "sans skepticism", Mark? Your >>> reading is quite selective & the irony is not lost ... >>> >>>> Mark Weiss wrote: >>> The evils of enthusiasm sans skepticism are pretty well >>> documented--Iraq, anyone? The Third Reich? Manifest Destiny? Need I >>> go on? How about enthusiasm accompanied by a healthy dose of >>> skepticism? Otherwise, by the time skepticism gets its turn it may >>> be too late to reverse the damage. >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> At 05:26 PM 7/11/2007, amy wrote: >>> It's quite easy to naysay the optimists, particularly when there >>> seem to be no clear-cut plans -- & indeed, attempt to crush them -- >>> but I'm with you on this count, Dan. More encouragement among the > poets ... >>> >>> >>> Dan Waber wrote: >>> While I wouldn't disagree that there needs to be a healthy level >>> of skepticism in poetry, and among poets, and encourage others to >>> be skeptical in those regards, I want to see that skepticism be >>> secondary to an optimism about matters concerning the net. Let's >>> get EXCITED about never-before-possible ways to change the world >>> for the better, first, and then reality check ourselves with >>> skepticism to make actionable plans rather than starting with >>> skepticism (because it's needed) and thus dampening the enthusiasm >>> necessary to imagine change is possible. >>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Dan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------- >>> Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection. >>> Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta. >> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:48:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Irony MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as pedro pietri said the masses are asses On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 19:35:53 -0400 Mark Weiss writes: > >What about all the people in SoCal who are from New York? Did they > >leave irony behind? I rather tend to think there are masses of > >people on both coasts who just don't do irony, whereas there are > >still lots of others who do. > > > >charles > > > Charles: > > There are lots of people from the northeast (not just New York--the > > irony belt stretches at least from Boston to DC) in central LA, but > > they're a much smaller percentage of the population in the rest of > SoCal, whether San Bernadino, San Diego, San Luis Obispo or Santa > Barbara. The northeast presence you and I know in San Diego is in > the academic world, an exile community there as elsewhere. I didn't > > live in that world. I was usually the only person from the northeast > > in any group in which I participated, including several hiking > clubs, > the Sierra Club, groups with no built-in regional origin > selectivity. > > I'm speaking only about the anglo community. I had a lot of friends > > in the Mexican community. Very different, more like the near parts > of > Mexico, or for that matter NY. > > In NY at any rate the folks who don't do irony are in my experience > > rare--I'd guess that if they exist they're brain-damaged. It's just > a > part of the culture. > > At 04:17 PM 7/12/2007, you wrote: > >lots of irony in ireland as well, self-reflective fun making with > english, > >for instance. flann o'brien anyone? g > > > Gabrielle: > > I lived in France and have spent a fair amount of time in the > British > Isles and Italy. I was and remain very comfortable there. Feels a > lot > like New York. I think the lack of irony may be really a US regional > > phenomenon (with large political and cultural consequences). The > prevalence of irony may depend upon the influence of large numbers > of > people with an enduring history of loss that functions as a unifying > > myth. Certainly the Irish qualify, as do most Europeans. > > But it's also possible--I really don't know and would love to be > enlightened--that there's something specific to the largely Lutheran > > culture of the center of the country and its diasporic community in > > California, and perhaps to the Protestant south that breeds a > distaste for irony. > > Mark > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:35:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Petermeier Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > which I find to be very uncomfortable now that I've > settled in the upper midwest, 'cause most people > "don't do irony" around here -- I am convinced that > this was a factor in at least one dismissal, because > my straight-shooting, echt-Minnesotan supervisor > could not understand where I was coming from: after > a year, it was curtains for me and my "foreign-born" > ironic attitude. Hey, Garrison Keillor is just plain tough to work for, but I think he's fired some non-ironic, echt-Minnesotans, too, and even some Danes. (Garrison ain't all that echt anyway, even if he can name all the counties by memory.) Maybe you'll have better luck if you start hanging out with some guys from the Iron Range. There's some guy from Hibbing who knows a thing or two about "irony," donchya know? pac, lov, and undrstanding (nvr giv up!) Stv Ptrmir no man's land minnapolis, mn usa ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 01:46:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: perhaps various interesting images, calligraphy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed perhaps various interesting images These might be of interest; the first series contains more accurate ren- ditions of images I put up a few years ago. The Koran is difficult to photograph; it's small and delicate and tightly-bound. It's illuminated with gold-leaf and from the early 19th-century and as usual we're broke; I'm trying to auction it through Sotheby's or Christie's. I'm constantly amazed at the physical labor and craft that went into it. I've never felt comfortable owning it; it's a museum piece. The other three images are half-exercise/camera-testing and playing around, but they're of interest I think: http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran1.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran2.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran3.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran4.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran5.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran6.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/nikukohouse.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/craned.jpg http://www.asondheim.org/calvary2.bmp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:47:39 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Friday Brings No Fish to Joe Brainard's Pyjamas but it does bring... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ned Rorem, Celestine Frost's beautiful hybridizations of drawings/poetry, a poem for Ms. Christina Ricci and more...you can bring your underroos, buckaroos, to _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) .... ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:58:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Matt Timmons Subject: Insert Press 'Zineland at UCLA Hammer Museum MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hammer Presents: 'Zineland Saturday, July 14 2007 from 6-10pm Free admission Hammer Courtyard http://hammer.ucla.edu/programs/49/ Insert Press will be at the Hammer Museum on Bastille Day for an event that Darin Klein put together called 'Zineland. We'll be debuting some advance copies of Fold Magazine and will be selling chapbooks by Harold Abramowitz and Julien Poirier. Darin also put together a Zine for the 'Zineland event, and you should be able to preview a few pages from Ara Shirinyan's forthcoming book Handsome Fish Offices if you come to 'Zineland and pick up a Zine. You can still Preorder your copy of Fold Appropriate Text at a discount, infact we're extending the discount price until Monday for only $8.50 + S&H! Regular price will be $11.00 + S&H. at http://insertpress.net/index.php?s=fold Participants in 'Zineland Include: 2nd Cannons Publications ANP Quarterly/Aaron Rose Eden Batki Brass Tacks Press Evelyn Donnelly & Robert Becraft Elk Family Eve Fowler & friends Heartschallenger Insert Press Journal of Aesthetics & Protest Library Bonnet Christopher Russell Skylight Books Sounds of Asteroth Trudi Esther Pearl Watson & Mark Todd Fold Appropriate Text Contributors are: Harold Abramowitz Guy Bennett Franklin Bruno Teresa Carmody Marcus Civin Katie Degentesh kari edwards Drew Gardner Nada Gordon K. Lorraine Graham Jen Hofer Mark Hoover Mike Magee Sharon Mesmer K. Silem Mohammad William Moor Bruna Mori Jeffrey Joe Nelson Vanessa Place Dan Richert Rod Smith Michael Smoler Mark Wallace ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:47:48 +0000 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Poet Philip Nikolayev with others in London July 20th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Friday 20th July Poetry Studio, 22 Betterton Street, Covent Garden London (Holborn or Covent Garden tube) 7.30-9pm £5 entry Philip Nikolayev - author of the collections Letters from Aldenderry (Salt) and Monkey Time (Verse Prize winner), and editor of Fulcrum. http://www.myspace.com/nikolayev Plus short readings from six other poets. Three poets whose first collections are forthcoming from Salt: Simon Barraclough, Isobel Dixon and Mark Waldron And also Annie Freud, Roddy Lumsden and Tim Wells ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:39:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Insert Press 'Zineland at UCLA Hammer Museum In-Reply-To: <6e0c370f0707130058g6149d5eahdaa57d716dbee7a7@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit As any self-respecting zinester knows, harkening back to the days of factsheet five, there is no apostrophe preceding zine, because no zinester would ever consider a zine a partial, or little, magazine, but instead an entity in and of itself. alas, david On 7/13/07 3:58 AM, "Matt Timmons" wrote: > Hammer Presents: 'Zineland > Saturday, July 14 2007 from 6-10pm > Free admission > Hammer Courtyard > http://hammer.ucla.edu/programs/49/ > > Insert Press will be at the Hammer Museum on Bastille Day for an event that > Darin Klein put together called 'Zineland. We'll be debuting some advance > copies of Fold Magazine and will be selling chapbooks by Harold Abramowitz > and Julien Poirier. Darin also put together a Zine for the 'Zineland event, > and you should be able to preview a few pages from Ara Shirinyan's > forthcoming book Handsome Fish Offices if you come to 'Zineland and pick up > a Zine. > > You can still Preorder your copy of Fold Appropriate Text at a discount, > infact we're extending the discount price until Monday for only $8.50 + S&H! > Regular price will be $11.00 + S&H. > at http://insertpress.net/index.php?s=fold > > Participants in 'Zineland Include: > 2nd Cannons Publications > ANP Quarterly/Aaron Rose > Eden Batki > Brass Tacks Press > Evelyn Donnelly & Robert Becraft > Elk > Family > Eve Fowler & friends > Heartschallenger > Insert Press > Journal of Aesthetics & Protest > Library Bonnet > Christopher Russell > Skylight Books > Sounds of Asteroth > Trudi > Esther Pearl Watson & Mark Todd > > Fold Appropriate Text Contributors are: > Harold Abramowitz > Guy Bennett > Franklin Bruno > Teresa Carmody > Marcus Civin > Katie Degentesh > kari edwards > Drew Gardner > Nada Gordon > K. Lorraine Graham > Jen Hofer > Mark Hoover > Mike Magee > Sharon Mesmer > K. Silem Mohammad > William Moor > Bruna Mori > Jeffrey Joe Nelson > Vanessa Place > Dan Richert > Rod Smith > Michael Smoler > Mark Wallace -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:24:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Chemical Brothers/Bisset collab... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jim, thanks for this. I wonder if anyone else has bill bissett stories? I'm particular fond of early blewointment press mimeo books. ~mIEKAL On Jul 11, 2007, at 2:19 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > i hadn't heard about kerouac calling bissett a great poet. > interesting. > > bill has travelled across canada countless times doing readings for > forty > some-odd years and publishes one or two books per year with > talonbooks. and > many people do indeed think of him as a great poet. yet he has > never won the > canadian literary prize. that seems to be controlled by other types of > poets. a pity. for canadian poetry. > > the official response seems to be "he's still doing the same old > thing he's > done since the sixties." i've heard this from several poets. > > in truth, he is and he isn't. at one point, i read about a dozen of > his > books ranging from the sixties through the eighties. what i found > was that > the books just kept getting better and better. in particular, the > books from > the late eighties include erm sort of prose poems, narrative prose > poems > that could be several pages long, usually about his life, that > were, to me, > the most interesting works and the ones that turned the books into > books > rather than collections of individual poems. they are more nuanced > and given > to shades of gray and deeper analysis than the lyric work. > > yet he never seems to read those sorts of poems in his readings > across the > country. his readings are his bread and butter, i think, and he > tends to go > with shorter stuff that can be counted on to rouse the audience. > that's > probably why many people think he's still doing 'the same old > thing'. it's > as though his readings are his job and he rarely messes with the > tried and > true at his job. > > i organized a couple of readings for him and they were always > packed and > high energy. i asked him to read a couple of those longer works at > one of > them, and he did, very well; he expressed surprise that i asked him > to read > those, said he rarely does, and is rarely asked to do so. > > he is appreciated by a young audience in canada, unlike many a > poet. it's a > pity for canadian poetry that his work has not been more > influential in > canada. he ekes out a living as a poet doing readings and selling > his books > but i don't think there has been much financial help to him apart > from those > sorts of gigs. yet he's persevered at it for decades. > > for years he ran his own press: blewointment. > > bpNichol called him "canada's best political poet". > > so it's great to see that some of his work is in the chemical > brother's > single that topped the UK charts. am looking forward to listening > to that > ditty, at some point. > > i don't think his talonbooks books make it into the usa much. this > seems to > be a problem for canadian publishers in general. > > ja > http://vispo.com > > ps: he helped me get a terrific apartment in victoria once. his > daughter > ooljah was my landlady for five years. then the building burned down. > electrical fire that started in a business downstairs. a fireman > saved my > computer. usually it's the cat or the baby. this time the little > clone with > all my writing on it. no one was injured, thank goodness. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:13:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit A packed upstairs City Lights Poetry Room, and a lovely, generous, tender, witful, wizened 'go through' of the just recently out, ABOUT NOW, Collected Poems (National Poetry Foundation), 798 pages of good paper stock, and, delightfully unsquished typography. A book that breathes, as in the case of Joanne, it is only right that it do so. What a satiric intelligence - aimed as much at herself as at the beings that inhabit the local spaces where - among much, much else - the righteous and self-important are destined to get mirrored, turned slightly, if not fully upside down, and (usually) released with a wit-spank. Whether it be Spicer, Duncan, the 'boy scout beatniks', or the world of Buddhist practice, the comedic is alive and well. "The Dharma Committee" papers, and bulletins are probably the best and most hilarious/counter-pomp inside account we will ever get of the 1959 North Beach 'wars' and other associations among the Beats, Spicer, Duncan et al. "Jack Spicer organizes Zen singing at The Place." (Not that Spicer did not have an odd-ball humor, I suspect this is a Joanne invention. Actually several pieces on Spicer) "The Dharma Committee has a handshake and a sign which members cannot divulge. If they do they have to sit in a lotus position for 25 minutes and think about Jack Kerouac." "It was suggested by Robert Duncan that we all write Cock Poems for the next class. Splendid!" Along and among the social and personal wit - let alone the cracker-jack quick insight & intelligence - there is a radiance and warmth here where the person does not take herself off-puttingly serious, while the language, well "that" is seriously and continuously at play. And a kudu for Michael Rothenberg for being a strong editorial shoulder in getting Joanne's work into the public eye . And a big thank you to Joanne. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:20:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <1184280026.4696addaf1069@webmail.nd.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It's the big new baseball stadium down by the docks. It is a lot like an amusement park. It is full of volunteers who are terrifically proud and happy. It is Southern California's orgasm. And it is named after a canned dog food. On Jul 12, 2007, at 3:40 PM, Chris Chapman wrote: > George, > > What's at PetCo Park? > Why does that park mean > there is no San Dieg-an irony? > > Chris > > > Quoting George Bowering : > >>> >> If you have been to PetCo ParK in San Diego >> you know that there is no irony in San Diego. >> >> >> Mr. G. Bowering >> Okanagan born. >> > > George Bowering, OBC Grammar cop ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:59:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michelle detorie Subject: Hex Presse / Womb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hi Everybody, Just wanted to post these two little announcements about Hex Presse and Womb. Apologies for cross-posting. Hex Presse : A Micro Press for Poetries by Women the print companion to ~*~WOMB~*~ {www.wombpoetry.com} * games * chapbooks * puzzles * poetry * http://www.daphnomancy.etsy.com Hex Presse, the print companion to the online journal WOMB POETRY, is a feminist press dedicated to the publication and appreciation of writing by women. Hex Presse publications are multi-media and eclectic. In addition to publishing handbound limited-edition chapbooks by contemporary poets, Hex Presse also publishes games and visual/tactile/manipulative poetic materials. Hex Presse games and manipulatives are often based on, sourced from, or inspired by the work of women writers. The goal of these materials is to create alternative ways of engaging/reading/experiencing writing by women. Hex Presse is interested in presenting text as multi-dimensional, plastic, playful, concrete, mutable, improvised, cooperative, collaborative, and interactive. RECENT ITEMS Cleromancy Poetry Game # 1: Emily Dickinson (http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6419034) Cleromancy Poetry Game # 2 "cup-like lilies": Christina Rossetti, curated by Jessica Smith (http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6437197) Please visit the hex presse blog: www.hexpresse.blogspot.com ______________________________________ Womb is reading submission for a summer mini-issue throughout July. Guidelines: http://wombpoetry.blogspot.com/2007/07/call-for-submissions-summer-mini-issue.html _______________________________________ Thanks! All the Best, Michelle -- http://www.wombpoetry.com/ http://www.daphnomancy.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:33:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Howe Subject: new on Glossolalia MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline New from Glossolalia: "KATOWICE" featuring Marcus Slease "CHANDETAN" featuring "LH Michelle" and "Microsoft Sam" Marcus is one of my favorite poets, and his manuscript *Godzeenie*, excerpts from which comprise the vocal portion of KATOWICE, is some of his best, most elemental work yet. The line "the sound of a mirror filmed backwards" terrifies me for reasons I can't even begin to describe. Needless to say, this is a scary one. CHANDETAN sounds innocent, even cheery, at first blush, yet has evinced insanity-inducing qualities at the couple-minute mark. Like the proverbial frog in the pot, you might not realize that you're irrevocably bonkers until it's too late. Use with caution. Download or stream them both here: http://glossolalia-blacksail.blogspot.com/ Best, Brian ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:48:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <80bfaf36fd4d9f243f622695382b7bce@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I did not understand 'PetCo'. It sounded like a different kind of sex reference. Quoting George Bowering : > It's the big new baseball stadium down by the docks. > It is a lot like an amusement park. > It is full of volunteers who are terrifically proud and happy. > It is Southern California's orgasm. > And it is named after a canned dog food. > > > On Jul 12, 2007, at 3:40 PM, Chris Chapman wrote: > > > George, > > > > What's at PetCo Park? > > Why does that park mean > > there is no San Dieg-an irony? > > > > Chris > > > > > > Quoting George Bowering : > > > >>> > >> If you have been to PetCo ParK in San Diego > >> you know that there is no irony in San Diego. > >> > >> > >> Mr. G. Bowering > >> Okanagan born. > >> > > > > > George Bowering, OBC > Grammar cop > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:47:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alison Cimino Subject: Re: Hex Presse / Womb In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hey Michelle, That's so cool! I love the Emily Dickinson game. Did you make that up yourself? Excellent! How are you??? xo Alison --- michelle detorie wrote: > Hi Everybody, > > Just wanted to post these two little announcements > about Hex Presse > and Womb. Apologies for cross-posting. > > > Hex Presse : A Micro Press for Poetries by Women > the print companion to ~*~WOMB~*~ > {www.wombpoetry.com} > * games * chapbooks * puzzles * poetry * > http://www.daphnomancy.etsy.com > > Hex Presse, the print companion to the online > journal WOMB POETRY, is > a feminist press dedicated to the publication and > appreciation of > writing by women. Hex Presse publications are > multi-media and > eclectic. In addition to publishing handbound > limited-edition > chapbooks by contemporary poets, Hex Presse also > publishes games and > visual/tactile/manipulative poetic materials. Hex > Presse games and > manipulatives are often based on, sourced from, or > inspired by the > work of women writers. The goal of these materials > is to create > alternative ways of engaging/reading/experiencing > writing by women. > Hex Presse is interested in presenting text as > multi-dimensional, > plastic, playful, concrete, mutable, improvised, > cooperative, > collaborative, and interactive. > > > RECENT ITEMS > > Cleromancy Poetry Game # 1: Emily Dickinson > (http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6419034) > > Cleromancy Poetry Game # 2 "cup-like lilies": > Christina Rossetti, > curated by Jessica Smith > (http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6437197) > > Please visit the hex presse blog: > www.hexpresse.blogspot.com > > > ______________________________________ > > Womb is reading submission for a summer mini-issue > throughout July. > > Guidelines: > http://wombpoetry.blogspot.com/2007/07/call-for-submissions-summer-mini-issue.html > > _______________________________________ > > Thanks! > > All the Best, Michelle > > -- > http://www.wombpoetry.com/ > http://www.daphnomancy.com/ > ____________________________________________________________________________________Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:02:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: why this probably isn't written well MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It's July 13 going on July 14 2007. Today I did absolutely nothing. I ate some grapes and played harmonica terribly. Last night I had a panic attack, that was a mess; I checked out the symptoms on the net and that was good enough for me. My heartrate was only 80 but my chest was tight and pounding. Today I found out my triglycerides are down to 220 and cholesterol at 199 which is okay. I read two versions of the Hevajra- tantra, Sanskrit and Chinese, in translation and answered an inquiry from Christie's who wanted me to redo the jpegs of the Koran under 600k and they couldn't open any of them with the URL until I sent them under 600k as attachments. I watched too much soccer, Bolivia beaten by Brazil in 1997 Copa Americas - Brazil was playing dirty but with a final score of 3-1 no one could argue. This is already badly written. Maybe it's Copa America. I finally understand football (soccer) offsides. Went with Azure and a friend back to the Tibetan shop for two more tantric works. Slept on and off all day because the panic attacked basically wrecked me; I haven't been able to do much else. I've had these attacks rather frequently in the past couple of weeks as I try to figure out my futureless future. The lock broke on our inner door in the building and I traded four bags of books for $56 as well as the Encyclopedia of New York, an Erle Stanley Gardner novel, and yet another book on things cyberspatial. Albert Ayler was on the radio and I heard a rumor that he was murdered back then. It would have been his 71st birth- day. I took a photograph with my Canon and the 24mm lens - the inside of a cafe. Found out that Flatbush meant a wooded plain in the original or something like that. I've been thinking about intentional language but doing nothing about it. The net said, well some- thing I read said that panic attacks can be accompanied by overwhelming feelings of devastation and doom. I'm waiting for the arrival of a Canon 8.1 megapixel A630 camera which might bring me needed resolution over my Sony FSC-717 which has only 5.1. The Canon doesn't have image stabiliza- tion. I've been using the Sony with full manual, including ISO. I'm thinking more about Thomas Ward, who wrote in 1842 under Flaccus. The place is far too humid and I looked at a brochure of Pocono homes. I had Turkish coffee at lunch with Azure and my friend; we talked about reincar- nation and ontological shifts. I've wanted to do something creative, and you might think this is it, writing through the back door, so to speak, but it's not. This morning I had to turn Bush's voice off the radio. I think it might be a different model name than FSC-717. I realized I like Roxy Music and traded a book on the evolution of invertebrates into the second-hand bookstore, as well as a book on nuthatches. I gave the cat a long pet; we've been worried about her after her third operation. I don't understand the excitement over Beckham; it didn't work with Pele, or rather worked for a little while, that's all. More soldiers and some Iraqi policemen died today; it was on the radio. I also don't understand the Regency period. I've got to work on our dance performance stuff - Foofwa's publicity materials arrived two days ago. The mail today brought abso- lutely nothing. I don't understand Will Ferrell or that kind of slapstick. I was able to write something more for Sue on cyberstuff and the wilder- ness and answered another interview question about the music I did in the 60s. The cat's trying to drink my coffee. Feeling guilty about not working enough on Leonardo; I'm having a hard time concentrating. I'm sad about trading or selling off books but we're heavily in debt. My new HIP doctor called today about the sleep clinic; she seems terrific. The old one lit- erally disappeared. I read some more in Delacroix' journals. Coffee is great. I kept waking up in the middle of the night; it was miserable. There was a dream of connectors coming apart and together on the side of something. I weigh 162 again, far too much, it's depression or stress or lack of sleep. Soccer is my meditation savior. I'd work for a while and then sleep and then wake up unbelievably frightened with my chest cold and tight, my heart pounding, my arms trembling. I think this is why I did nothing today, and my harmonica playing was awful; I'm in no shape for doing anything. We're trying to get the cat to eat more. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:57:51 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's the big new baseball stadium down by the docks. It is a lot like an amusement park. It is full of volunteers who are terrifically proud and happy. It is Southern California's orgasm. It is named after a canned dog food from China And only sold to US residents. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:23:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Stephen, Thanks for the report on the Kyger reading. Good to hear something of it. But "a kudo" ? On Jul 13, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > A packed upstairs City Lights Poetry Room, and a lovely, generous, > tender, > witful, wizened 'go through' of the just recently out, ABOUT NOW, > Collected > Poems (National Poetry Foundation), 798 pages of good paper stock, and, > delightfully unsquished typography. A book that breathes, as in the > case of > Joanne, it is only right that it do so. What a satiric intelligence - > aimed > as much at herself as at the beings that inhabit the local spaces > where - > among much, much else - the righteous and self-important are destined > to get > mirrored, turned slightly, if not fully upside down, and (usually) > released > with a wit-spank. Whether it be Spicer, Duncan, the 'boy scout > beatniks', > or the world of Buddhist practice, the comedic is alive and well. "The > Dharma Committee" papers, and bulletins are probably the best and most > hilarious/counter-pomp inside account we will ever get of the 1959 > North > Beach 'wars' and other associations among the Beats, Spicer, Duncan et > al. > > "Jack Spicer organizes Zen singing at The Place." > > (Not that Spicer did not have an odd-ball humor, I suspect this is a > Joanne > invention. Actually several pieces on Spicer) > > "The Dharma Committee has a handshake and a sign which members cannot > divulge. If they do they have to sit in a lotus position for 25 > minutes and > think about Jack Kerouac." > > "It was suggested by Robert Duncan that we all write > Cock Poems for the next class. Splendid!" > > Along and among the social and personal wit - let alone the > cracker-jack > quick insight & intelligence - there is a radiance and warmth here > where the > person does not take herself off-puttingly serious, while the > language, well > "that" is seriously and continuously at play. > > And a kudu for Michael Rothenberg for being a strong editorial > shoulder in > getting Joanne's work into the public eye . > > And a big thank you to Joanne. > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > Bowering A gerund and your friend. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:51:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: conrad black MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit conrad black, a former media magnate, was convicted today in a chicago court of obstruction of justice and three counts of fraud. by 1990, his companies ran over 400 newspaper titles in north america; he was also the owner of the telegraph group in britain. black was originally canadian but forfeited his citizenship to be in the british house of lords. black was not prosecuted in canada. it was the usa justice system that got him. for all the problems with the justice system in the usa, it must be said that rich frauds such as conrad black stand more chance of being prosecuted in the usa than they do in canada. ja http://vispo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:09:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lori Emerson Subject: new from the electronic book review: stuff 'o language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline . . . no, seriously, we mean really . . . the stuff! Ink blot by ink blot pixel by pixel magnetic memory particle by particle the pigment, the fiber, the glass is changing and rearranging being reknit into a new patterned poncho e.g. ebr www.electronicbookreview.com Proudly Presents 1) "Enfolded" a newly woven thread comprised of stuff . . . essays . . . that lie beyond the borders of ebr "Enfolded," edited by Joseph Tabbi 2) "The Sounds of the Artificial Intelligentsia" The debut of one of the Chief Powers of the new ebr interface, the Personal Remix (with frame commentary) of stuff . . . experiments, views and re-views . . . from the existing ebr storehouse "The Sounds of the Artificial Intelligentsia" remixed by Mark Amerika 3) "Recollection in Process" A smoking-hot remix of choice stuff . . . a "Best Of ebr" if you will . . . fabric ated by ebr's own house DJ. "Recollection in Process" best of ebr remixed by Joe Tabbi www.electronicbookreview.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:02:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "j. kuszai" Subject: New from Factory School: Omar P=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E9rez,?= Algo de l o sagrado Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed New =46rom Factory School Algo de lo sagrado / Something of the Sacred by Omar P=E9rez Poetry Spanish with English translations by Kristin Dykstra and Roberto =20 Tejada, plus an essay by Kristin Dykstra PS3577 Factory School, 2007 210 pages, perfect bound, 5.5x7.5 ISBN: 978-1-60001-986-9 MSRP: $19 Direct from Factory School: $15 (including shipping) Volume and student discounts available. Special Discount for Members of the Poetics List: Pre-order until Monday, July 16, 12pm and receive this book for =20 $10.00 (7.00 plus $3 for shipping). If interested, send an email to me backchannel or send (via PayPal) =20 $10.00 to info@factoryschool.org. This special offer expires at 12:01pm Monday, July 16, 2007. Order =20 Today! For more information about this book, please visit: http://factoryschool.org/pubs/perez/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:39:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Pyjamas Goes Mercatorish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well sorta...to find out what Analomink, Choconut, Japan, Clyde No. 3, Ono and Tanguy have in common, stop on by for some sweet tea at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...we also have a Happy Bastille Day poem, and to quote the chick playing Vampira in Ed Wood (& hopefully being a little less cavalier while doing so) "a lot of other people I've never heard of." And still five weeks of NO GARRISON KEILLOR EVER!!!! (SCRUB, CHRISTINA SCRUB!!) _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:11:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night, Albany, NY Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed the Poetry Motel Foundation presents Third Thursday Poetry Night at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY Thursday, July 19, 2007=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start Featured Poet: Tim Verhaegen with open mic for poets before & after the feature $3.00 donation.=A0 Your host since 1997: Dan Wilcox. Tim Verhaegen has been living in the Capital District for almost thirty=20= years. He writes business letters as an=A0insurance regulator=A0by day.=A0= =20 He's a poetry and prose writer at night. His poems have been published=20= in "Poetry Don't Pump Gas" and "Many Waters".=A0 His poetry often = targets=20 the intimate stories of his own life and the stories of the people=20 closest to him.=A0=A0 He's a collector of=A0toy cars, toy animals and = other=20 figurines.=A0=A0He's been accused all his life of being a "people=20 collector".=A0 His two mottos are "I'm on this earth to learn, I'm on=20 this earth to love."=A0=A0 # ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 13:18:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: July 17: Gerdes, Karmin & Aaaaaaaaaaalice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Series A presents a fiction reading by Eckhard Gerdes a text-sound composition by Jennifer Karmin With guest readers: Kathleen Duffy Erica Mott Sheelah Murthy Peter O'Leary Kristin Prevallet Marvin Tate performing Jennifer Karmin's word score Aaaaaaaaaaalice 7pm Tuesday, July 17 at the Hyde Park Art Center 5020 S. Cornell Ave, room 4833 Chicago, IL http://www.hydeparkart.org cta bus #6, 28, & 15 free Curated by William Allegrezza http://www.moriapoetry.com/seriesa.html ECKHARD GERDES is an American novelist and editor. He is the author of six published novels: Projections (Depth Charge Press, 1986), Ring in a River (Depth Charge Press, 1989), Truly Fine Citizen (Highlander Press, 1992), Cistern Tawdry (Fugue State Press, 2002), Przewalski's Horse (Red Hen Press, 2007), and The Million-Year Centipede; or, Liquid Structures (Raw Dog Screaming Press, 2007). Gerdes is the editor of The Journal of Experimental Fiction and has written on modern/post-modern literature for American Book Review, Review of Contemporary Fiction, Hyde Park Review of Books, and other magazines. He lives in the Chicago area; he has three children. http://www.experimentalfiction.com JENNIFER KARMIN is a poet, artist, and educator who has experimented with language throughout the U.S. and Japan. She curates the Red Rover Series with fiction writer Amina Cain and is a founding member of the public art group Anti Gravity Surprise. Her multidisciplinary projects have been presented at a number of festivals, artist-run spaces, community centers, and on city streets. Jennifer teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman College and works as a Poet-in-Residence for the Chicago Public Schools. Recent publications include MoonLit, Bird Dog, Milk Magazine, The City Visible: Chicago Poetry for the New Century (Cracked Slab, 2007), and Growing Up Girl: An Anthology of Voices from Marginalized Spaces(GirlChild Press, 2006). For over seven years, she has proudly lived in Chicago’s Humboldt Park neighborhood. http://www.trumancollege.cc/profiles/generatebio.php?empno=2915 AAAAAAAAAAALICE is a multivoiced text that intersects language, place, and (mis)communication with a 1963 Japanese textbook, travels through Asia, and Alice in Wonderland. Mirroring Werner Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle, the sequence and time relations of the poems create unlimited permutations intended for reading, sound, and performance experiments. KATHLEEN DUFFY's interdisciplinary artwork includes community-based performance, writing, installation, and the repurposing of familiar objects. She has published internationally, often performing poetry and teaching workshops in New York, Portland, Buffalo, and Chicago. In 2001, Kathleen co-founded the public art group Anti Gravity Surprise to forge alliances with other artists, activists, community groups, and the general public. She earns her keep as the business manager at Links Hall and a concert production assistant at the Old Town School of Folk Music, and happily serves as president of the board for the Dill Pickle Food Co-op. ERICA MOTT is a performer, director, and deviser whose work is particularly inspired by observation of her immediate environment through materials, improvisation, butoh inspired movement and site-specific performance. Erica has performed locally with Synapses Arts Collective, Storybox, Blair Thomas and Company, Redmoon Theatre, and Local Infinities Visual Theater. She was the artistic director of the MUKA Project in Johannesburg (South Africa), the founder/director of Collect4 in Exeter (England) and is currently the administrative coordinator at Links Hall. http://www.ericamott.com SHEELAH MURTHY is an artist and licensed professional massage therapist who works with installation, video, performance, and the cusp between these mediums. Her projects deal with issues of culture, representation, global appropriation, and the power play that informs them. Currently, she lives with her daughter, husband, dad, and cat in Chicago while working for 5 employers (Columbia College, the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, Chiropractic Chicago, YMCA, Exhale Spa) all whom influence her solo practice and collaborations with Mrs. Rao's Growl and RATIO. PETER O'LEARY lives in Berwyn and teaches at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. His most recent book is Depth Theology (Georgia, 2006). He is the literary executor for the late poet Ronald Johnson. http://www.luxhominem.com KRISTIN PREVALLET's books include Shadow Evidence Intelligence (Factory School, 2006), Scratch Sides: Poetry, Documentation, and Image-Text Projects (Skanky Possum, 2002), and Perturbation, My Sister: A Study of Max Ernst's Hundred Headless Woman (First Intensity, 1997). She will be in Chicago to give a reading for her new book, I Afterlife: An Essay in Mourning Time (Essay Press, 2007) 8pm on July 21st at Lifeline Theatre, 6912 N Glenwood Ave. Presented by Red Rover curator Jennifer Karmin, this one-hour literary dance event will feature Prevallet reading selections of her book and a performance by From the Hip Dance Project choreographed by sister Elizabeth Schmitz. http://www.kayvallet.com MARVIN TATE is a pioneer in the genre of fusing poetry, performance, spoken-word, and music. His work has been featured on NPR’s This American Life, The Knitting Factory (NYC), The Headlands (San Francisco), HBO’s Def-Jam Poetry, and the McNeil/Leher News Hour. Presently, Marvin teaches creative writing at a Chicago alternative highschool. He collaborated with ex-Wilco multi-instrumentalist, LeRoy Bach, to produce an eleven-song disc The Family Swim, due for release in July 2007. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:24:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: <1f1bb9f59b738457ba779dbf4009575e@sfu.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Stephen, > > Thanks for the report on the Kyger reading. > Good to hear something of it. > > > But "a kudo" ? George,you must be referring to my misspelling, "kudu"?? Actually I prefer the change in the vowel to a "u:, the sound of it. "Kudo" always sounds related to cooties or a sappy voiced radio guy vaguely congratulating somebody for pulling off a good March of Dimes on a rainy day. Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw attention to Michael Rothenberg's accomplishments with the Penguin series - the Meltzer, Dorn,Whalen, Kyger, and several other Selecteds that he has managed to bring together. It is unlikely that any other major Press would have picked them up (such as FSG, Ecco, Wesleyan, maybe UC Press). Joanne, at least, for a larger public, was not big on any body's radar. Michael must have had real persuasive power, or a very good connection with a Penguin inmate, to bring that series. (Penguin, I understand, measures sales in pounds, not by the number titles sold!) However, I would - if I could - owe an apology to the folks at the National Poetry Foundation who edited the work and brought out this volume. Linda Russo wrote the Introduction, but I do not know if she had a larger hand in the edition, of which I suspect there must have been many folks, in order to get these 800 pages together! But the book gives not accounting of the names of the responsible editorial staff editorial labor, nor the typographer or printer. Beats me why those folks were not given public credit - I suspect it was more sweat than bucks that paid for much of the labor here - except for the printer. I think we should, at least, praise all of them in their anonymous absence! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > On Jul 13, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > >> A packed upstairs City Lights Poetry Room, and a lovely, generous, >> tender, >> witful, wizened 'go through' of the just recently out, ABOUT NOW, >> Collected >> Poems (National Poetry Foundation), 798 pages of good paper stock, and, >> delightfully unsquished typography. A book that breathes, as in the >> case of >> Joanne, it is only right that it do so. What a satiric intelligence - >> aimed >> as much at herself as at the beings that inhabit the local spaces >> where - >> among much, much else - the righteous and self-important are destined >> to get >> mirrored, turned slightly, if not fully upside down, and (usually) >> released >> with a wit-spank. Whether it be Spicer, Duncan, the 'boy scout >> beatniks', >> or the world of Buddhist practice, the comedic is alive and well. "The >> Dharma Committee" papers, and bulletins are probably the best and most >> hilarious/counter-pomp inside account we will ever get of the 1959 >> North >> Beach 'wars' and other associations among the Beats, Spicer, Duncan et >> al. >> >> "Jack Spicer organizes Zen singing at The Place." >> >> (Not that Spicer did not have an odd-ball humor, I suspect this is a >> Joanne >> invention. Actually several pieces on Spicer) >> >> "The Dharma Committee has a handshake and a sign which members cannot >> divulge. If they do they have to sit in a lotus position for 25 >> minutes and >> think about Jack Kerouac." >> >> "It was suggested by Robert Duncan that we all write >> Cock Poems for the next class. Splendid!" >> >> Along and among the social and personal wit - let alone the >> cracker-jack >> quick insight & intelligence - there is a radiance and warmth here >> where the >> person does not take herself off-puttingly serious, while the >> language, well >> "that" is seriously and continuously at play. >> >> And a kudu for Michael Rothenberg for being a strong editorial >> shoulder in >> getting Joanne's work into the public eye . >> >> And a big thank you to Joanne. >> >> Stephen V >> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >> >> > Bowering > A gerund and your friend. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 21:20:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Stephen, I second the salute to Michael's labor of love. Ciao, Murat On 7/14/07, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > Stephen, > > > > Thanks for the report on the Kyger reading. > > Good to hear something of it. > > > > > > But "a kudo" ? > George,you must be referring to my misspelling, "kudu"?? Actually I > prefer > the change in the vowel to a "u:, the sound of it. "Kudo" always sounds > related to cooties or a sappy voiced radio guy vaguely congratulating > somebody for pulling off a good March of Dimes on a rainy day. > > Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw attention to > Michael Rothenberg's accomplishments with the Penguin series - the > Meltzer, > Dorn,Whalen, Kyger, and several other Selecteds that he has managed to > bring > together. It is unlikely that any other major Press would have picked them > up (such as FSG, Ecco, Wesleyan, maybe UC Press). Joanne, at least, for a > larger public, was not big on any body's radar. Michael must have had real > persuasive power, or a very good connection with a Penguin inmate, to > bring > that series. (Penguin, I understand, measures sales in pounds, not by the > number titles sold!) > > However, I would - if I could - owe an apology to the folks at the > National > Poetry Foundation who edited the work and brought out this volume. Linda > Russo wrote the Introduction, but I do not know if she had a larger hand > in > the edition, of which I suspect there must have been many folks, in order > to > get these 800 pages together! But the book gives not accounting of the > names > of the responsible editorial staff editorial labor, nor the typographer > or > printer. Beats me why those folks were not given public credit - I suspect > it was more sweat than bucks that paid for much of the labor here - except > for the printer. > > I think we should, at least, praise all of them in their anonymous > absence! > > Stephen V > http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > > > > > > > On Jul 13, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > > >> A packed upstairs City Lights Poetry Room, and a lovely, generous, > >> tender, > >> witful, wizened 'go through' of the just recently out, ABOUT NOW, > >> Collected > >> Poems (National Poetry Foundation), 798 pages of good paper stock, and, > >> delightfully unsquished typography. A book that breathes, as in the > >> case of > >> Joanne, it is only right that it do so. What a satiric intelligence - > >> aimed > >> as much at herself as at the beings that inhabit the local spaces > >> where - > >> among much, much else - the righteous and self-important are destined > >> to get > >> mirrored, turned slightly, if not fully upside down, and (usually) > >> released > >> with a wit-spank. Whether it be Spicer, Duncan, the 'boy scout > >> beatniks', > >> or the world of Buddhist practice, the comedic is alive and well. "The > >> Dharma Committee" papers, and bulletins are probably the best and most > >> hilarious/counter-pomp inside account we will ever get of the 1959 > >> North > >> Beach 'wars' and other associations among the Beats, Spicer, Duncan et > >> al. > >> > >> "Jack Spicer organizes Zen singing at The Place." > >> > >> (Not that Spicer did not have an odd-ball humor, I suspect this is a > >> Joanne > >> invention. Actually several pieces on Spicer) > >> > >> "The Dharma Committee has a handshake and a sign which members cannot > >> divulge. If they do they have to sit in a lotus position for 25 > >> minutes and > >> think about Jack Kerouac." > >> > >> "It was suggested by Robert Duncan that we all write > >> Cock Poems for the next class. Splendid!" > >> > >> Along and among the social and personal wit - let alone the > >> cracker-jack > >> quick insight & intelligence - there is a radiance and warmth here > >> where the > >> person does not take herself off-puttingly serious, while the > >> language, well > >> "that" is seriously and continuously at play. > >> > >> And a kudu for Michael Rothenberg for being a strong editorial > >> shoulder in > >> getting Joanne's work into the public eye . > >> > >> And a big thank you to Joanne. > >> > >> Stephen V > >> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > >> > >> > > Bowering > > A gerund and your friend. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 15:19:29 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Jul 2007 to 14 Jul 2007 (#2007-195) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alan Sondheim, Are you any relation to Stephen Sondheim ? 'Glossolalia !- The Musical !' Pam Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:02:15 -0400 From: Alan Sondheim Subject: why this probably isn't written well It's July 13 going on July 14 2007. Today I did absolutely nothing. I ate some grapes and played harmonica terribly. Last night I had a panic attack, that was a mess; I checked out the symptoms on the net and that was good enough for me. My heartrate was only 80 but my chest was tight and pounding. Today I found out my triglycerides are down to 220 and cholesterol at 199 which is okay. I read two versions of the Hevajra- tantra, Sanskrit and Chinese, in translation and answered an inquiry from Christie's who wanted me to redo the jpegs of the Koran under 600k and they couldn't open any of them with the URL until I sent them under 600k as attachments. I watched too much soccer, Bolivia beaten by Brazil in 1997 Copa Americas - Brazil was playing dirty but with a final score of 3-1 no one could argue. This is already badly written. Maybe it's Copa America. I finally understand football (soccer) offsides. Went with Azure and a friend back to the Tibetan shop for two more tantric works. Slept on and off all day because the panic attacked basically wrecked me; I haven't been able to do much else. I've had these attacks rather frequently in the past couple of weeks as I try to figure out my futureless future. The lock broke on our inner door in the building and I traded four bags of books for $56 as well as the Encyclopedia of New York, an Erle Stanley Gardner novel, and yet another book on things cyberspatial. Albert Ayler was on the radio and I heard a rumor that he was murdered back then. It would have been his 71st birth- day. I took a photograph with my Canon and the 24mm lens - the inside of a cafe. Found out that Flatbush meant a wooded plain in the original or something like that. I've been thinking about intentional language but doing nothing about it. The net said, well some- thing I read said that panic attacks can be accompanied by overwhelming feelings of devastation and doom. I'm waiting for the arrival of a Canon 8.1 megapixel A630 camera which might bring me needed resolution over my Sony FSC-717 which has only 5.1. The Canon doesn't have image stabiliza- tion. I've been using the Sony with full manual, including ISO. I'm thinking more about Thomas Ward, who wrote in 1842 under Flaccus. The place is far too humid and I looked at a brochure of Pocono homes. I had Turkish coffee at lunch with Azure and my friend; we talked about reincar- nation and ontological shifts. I've wanted to do something creative, and you might think this is it, writing through the back door, so to speak, but it's not. This morning I had to turn Bush's voice off the radio. I think it might be a different model name than FSC-717. I realized I like Roxy Music and traded a book on the evolution of invertebrates into the second-hand bookstore, as well as a book on nuthatches. I gave the cat a long pet; we've been worried about her after her third operation. I don't understand the excitement over Beckham; it didn't work with Pele, or rather worked for a little while, that's all. More soldiers and some Iraqi policemen died today; it was on the radio. I also don't understand the Regency period. I've got to work on our dance performance stuff - Foofwa's publicity materials arrived two days ago. The mail today brought abso- lutely nothing. I don't understand Will Ferrell or that kind of slapstick. I was able to write something more for Sue on cyberstuff and the wilder- ness and answered another interview question about the music I did in the 60s. The cat's trying to drink my coffee. Feeling guilty about not working enough on Leonardo; I'm having a hard time concentrating. I'm sad about trading or selling off books but we're heavily in debt. My new HIP doctor called today about the sleep clinic; she seems terrific. The old one lit- erally disappeared. I read some more in Delacroix' journals. Coffee is great. I kept waking up in the middle of the night; it was miserable. There was a dream of connectors coming apart and together on the side of something. I weigh 162 again, far too much, it's depression or stress or lack of sleep. Soccer is my meditation savior. I'd work for a while and then sleep and then wake up unbelievably frightened with my chest cold and tight, my heart pounding, my arms trembling. I think this is why I did nothing today, and my harmonica playing was awful; I'm in no shape for doing anything. We're trying to get the cat to eat more. _________________________________________________________________ Blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com/ Web site : Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ Associate editor : Jacket - http://jacketmagazine.com/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:24:39 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: new on BEHINDTHELINESPOETRY.BLOGSPOT.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVyZSdzIHdoYXQncyBuZXcgb24gd3d3LmJlaGluZHRoZWxpbmVzcG9ldHJ5LmJsb2dzcG90 LmNvbQ0KDQpJZiB5b3UndmUgZ290IGEgcG9lbSBvciBlc3NheSBvbiB3YXIsIHBlYWNlLCBh bmQgdGhlIGN1bHR1cmFsIHdvcmsgb2YgcG9ldHJ5IHRoYXQgeW91J2QgbGlrZSBpbmNsdWRl ZC9yZXZpZXdlZCwgc2VuZCBpdCBhbG9uZyB0byBtZS4NCg0KSnVseQ0KDQotLUJvYiBQZXJl bG1hbidzICJTaG9jayBhbmQgQXdlIiBhbmQgRGljayBDaGVuZXkncyBNaW5kL0EgMjFzdCBD ZW50dXJ5ICJXaWNoaXRhIFZvcnRleCBTdXRyYSINCi0tUG9ldHMgQWdhaW5zdCB0aGUgV2Fy IHJlYWRpbmcgaW4gSW93YSBmcm9tIE5vdmVtYmVyIDIwMDUgDQotLUhheWFuIENoYXJhcmEn cyAiVXNhZ2UiIA0KLS1EdW55YSBNaWtoYWlsIA0KLS1Qb2VtcyBvZiBQZWFjZSwgUG9lbXMg b2YgV2FyL0NoaWNhZ28gSHVtYW5pdGllcyBGZXN0aXZhbCAyMDA2DQotLVZvaWNlcyBmcm9t IEd1YW50YW5hbW8vVGhlIEN1bHR1cmFsIFdvcmsgb2YgUG9ldHJ5DQotLVNpbmFuIEFudG9v biwgSXJhcWkgUG9ldCwgb24gIkRlbW9jcmFjeSBOb3ciIA0KLS1MYXJpc3NhIFNobWFpbG8n cyAiRXhvcmNpc20iL0ZvdW5kIFBvZW1zLCBJbmNhbnRhdGlvbnMgDQotLVNhbWloIGFsLVFh c2ltJ3MgIkVuZCBvZiBhIFRhbGsgd2l0aCBhIEphaWxlciIvV2FsbHMgYW5kIHRoZSBTZWN1 cml0eSBTdGF0ZSBjb250aW51ZWQNCi0tRGF2aWQtQmFwdGlzdGUgQ2hpcm90J3MgUmF3IFdh ci9UaGUgV2FsbHMgb2YgdGhlIFNlY3VyaXR5IFN0YXRlDQotLU1lZXRpbmcgV2FsdCBhdCBU aGlydHktU2V2ZW4vTXkgQmlydGhkYXkgVG9kYXkgDQotLUJhcnJldHQgV2F0dGVuICYgQ2Fy bCBTYW5kYnVyZydzICJCdXR0b25zIiANCi0tUGVhY2UgU2lnbnMgDQotLWQuYS5sZXZ5ICYg dGhlIHR1cm4gdG93YXJkIGNvbmNyZXRlIHBvZXRyeSANCuKWvCBKdW5lICgxMCkgDQotLVJh bmRhbGwgSmFycmVsbCdzICJUaGUgRGVhdGggb2YgdGhlIEJhbGwgVHVycmV0IEd1bm5lciIg DQotLU5ndXllbiBEdXkncyAiT2ggU3RvbmUiIGFuZCBKb2huIEJyYWRsZXkncyAiQm9zbmlh IEJvc25pYSIgDQotLUxlbiBTb3VzYSdzIFBvZXRyeS9NdXNpYyBNYXNodXBzOiBMb3dlbGwn cyAiRm9yIHRoIFVuaW9uIERlYWQiDQotLUJhcmluZyBXaXRuZXNzOiBEb25uYSBTaGVlaGFu IGFuZCAiRm9yIHRoZSBGaWZ0eSIgDQotLVBlbm55IEFsbGVuIGFuZCB0aGUgTmF0aW9uYWwg Q2FtcGFpZ24gZm9yIGEgUGVhY2UgVGF4IEZ1bmQNCi0tUmViZWNjYSBTb2xuaXQgYW5kIFJl YXNvbnMgZm9yIEhvcGUgDQotLUdhbWJsaW5nIG9uIE5vbi1WaW9sZW5jZTogQW4gSW50ZXJ2 aWV3IHdpdGggUmFscGggRGlHaWENCi0tRnJvbSBWaWV0bmFtIHRvIFNlcHRlbWJlciAxMXRo OiBBbiBJbnRlcnZpZXcgd2l0aCBSb2JlcnQgQmx5IA0KLS0iUG9ldHJ5IGFuZCB0aGUgUGVh Y2UgTW92ZW1lbnQgDQotLU9wZW5pbmcgU2Fsdm8gDQoNCg0KcGVhY2VvdXQsDQpQaGlsaXAg TWV0cmVzDQpBc3NvY2lhdGUgUHJvZmVzc29yDQpEZXBhcnRtZW50IG9mIEVuZ2xpc2gNCkpv aG4gQ2Fycm9sbCBVbml2ZXJzaXR5DQoyMDcwMCBOLiBQYXJrIEJsdmQNClVuaXZlcnNpdHkg SGVpZ2h0cywgT0ggNDQxMTgNCnBob25lOiAoMjE2KSAzOTctNDUyOCAod29yaykNCmZheDog KDIxNikgMzk3LTE3MjMNCmh0dHA6Ly93d3cucGhpbGlwbWV0cmVzLmNvbQ0KaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5iZWhpbmR0aGVsaW5lc3BvZXRyeS5ibG9nc3BvdC5jb20NCg== ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:32:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 13 Jul 2007 to 14 Jul 2007 (#2007-195) In-Reply-To: <926858.66293.qm@web33108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Oddly enough; I'm no relation as far as I know, and this is mutual; he doesn't seem to be a relation to me. On the other hand my great aunt Tess told me we were related to Houdini, Ehrlich Weiss; I'm not sure it's true but I chose to believe it - and on the other hand again, Houdini has yet to ackknowledge it. - Alan On Sun, 15 Jul 2007, Pam Brown wrote: > Alan Sondheim, > > Are you any relation to Stephen Sondheim ? > 'Glossolalia !- The Musical !' > > Pam > > Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 01:02:15 -0400 > From: Alan Sondheim > Subject: why this probably isn't written well > > It's July 13 going on July 14 2007. Today I did > absolutely nothing. I > ate > some grapes and played harmonica terribly. Last night > I had a panic > attack, that was a mess; I checked out the symptoms on > the net and that > was good enough for me. My heartrate was only 80 but > my chest was tight > and pounding. Today I found out my triglycerides are > down to 220 and > cholesterol at 199 which is okay. I read two versions > of the Hevajra- > tantra, Sanskrit and Chinese, in translation and > answered an inquiry > from > Christie's who wanted me to redo the jpegs of the > Koran under 600k and > they couldn't open any of them with the URL until I > sent them under > 600k > as attachments. I watched too much soccer, Bolivia > beaten by Brazil in > 1997 Copa Americas - Brazil was playing dirty but with > a final score of > 3-1 no one could argue. This is already badly written. > Maybe it's Copa > America. I finally understand football (soccer) > offsides. Went with > Azure > and a friend back to the Tibetan shop for two more > tantric works. Slept > on > and off all day because the panic attacked basically > wrecked me; I > haven't > been able to do much else. I've had these attacks > rather frequently in > the > past couple of weeks as I try to figure out my > futureless future. The > lock > broke on our inner door in the building and I traded > four bags of books > for $56 as well as the Encyclopedia of New York, an > Erle Stanley > Gardner > novel, and yet another book on things cyberspatial. > Albert Ayler was on > the radio and I heard a rumor that he was murdered > back then. It would > have been his 71st birth- day. I took a photograph > with my Canon and > the > 24mm lens - the inside of a cafe. Found out that > Flatbush meant a > wooded > plain in the original or something like that. I've > been thinking about > intentional language but doing nothing about it. The > net said, well > some- > thing I read said that panic attacks can be > accompanied by overwhelming > feelings of devastation and doom. I'm waiting for the > arrival of a > Canon > 8.1 megapixel A630 camera which might bring me needed > resolution over > my > Sony FSC-717 which has only 5.1. The Canon doesn't > have image > stabiliza- > tion. I've been using the Sony with full manual, > including ISO. I'm > thinking more about Thomas Ward, who wrote in 1842 > under Flaccus. The > place is far too humid and I looked at a brochure of > Pocono homes. I > had > Turkish coffee at lunch with Azure and my friend; we > talked about > reincar- > nation and ontological shifts. I've wanted to do > something creative, > and > you might think this is it, writing through the back > door, so to speak, > but it's not. This morning I had to turn Bush's voice > off the radio. I > think it might be a different model name than FSC-717. > I realized I > like > Roxy Music and traded a book on the evolution of > invertebrates into the > second-hand bookstore, as well as a book on > nuthatches. I gave the cat > a > long pet; we've been worried about her after her third > operation. I > don't > understand the excitement over Beckham; it didn't work > with Pele, or > rather worked for a little while, that's all. More > soldiers and some > Iraqi > policemen died today; it was on the radio. I also > don't understand the > Regency period. I've got to work on our dance > performance stuff - > Foofwa's > publicity materials arrived two days ago. The mail > today brought abso- > lutely nothing. I don't understand Will Ferrell or > that kind of > slapstick. > I was able to write something more for Sue on > cyberstuff and the > wilder- > ness and answered another interview question about the > music I did in > the > 60s. The cat's trying to drink my coffee. Feeling > guilty about not > working > enough on Leonardo; I'm having a hard time > concentrating. I'm sad about > trading or selling off books but we're heavily in > debt. My new HIP > doctor > called today about the sleep clinic; she seems > terrific. The old one > lit- > erally disappeared. I read some more in Delacroix' > journals. Coffee is > great. I kept waking up in the middle of the night; it > was miserable. > There was a dream of connectors coming apart and > together on the side > of > something. I weigh 162 again, far too much, it's > depression or stress > or > lack of sleep. Soccer is my meditation savior. I'd > work for a while and > then sleep and then wake up unbelievably frightened > with my chest cold > and > tight, my heart pounding, my arms trembling. I think > this is why I did > nothing today, and my harmonica playing was awful; I'm > in no shape for > doing anything. We're trying to get the cat to eat > more. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com/ > Web site : Pam Brown - http://www.geocities.com/p.brown/ > Associate editor : Jacket - http://jacketmagazine.com/index.html > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 11:35:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Alan Sondheim - New from Linguablanca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: J. Lehmus Subject: Alan Sondheim - New from Linguablanca NEW FROM LINGUABLANCA http://purl.org/NET/isbn9789525256062 _______________________________________________________________________ Alan Sondheim: Philosophy 'How to begin philosophy, how to begin the process of philosophizing, an activity, a form of labor, the philosopher and the production. Whether the philosophy is cast asunder, whether it is interpretable, that is, translatable; whether it remains intrinsic to the act of philosophizing, therefore bound. If bound, whether it is of the substance or thing or continuity of its creation, or whether it is of some other substance, some other, cast asunder; whether the production is one with its production; whether the producer is one with the production. Here beginning without return, without recourse to the return, beginning in the sense of an act of writing designating this particular production which is named "Philosophy."' Alan Sondheim's books include the anthology Being on Line: Net Subjectivity, Disorders of the Real, .echo, Vel, Sophia, Orders of the Real, and The Wayward as well as numerous other chapbooks, ebooks, and articles. His video and film have been internationally shown. Sondheim co-moderates several pioneering email lists, including Cybermind, Cyberculture and Wryting. Since January, 1994, he has been working on an "Internet Text," a continuous meditation on philosophy, psychology, language, body, and virtuality. Sondheim's work is trans-media; his emphasis is on writing, theory, and digital performance. _______________________________________________________________________ Linguablanca Chapbook Number 18 PURL http://purl.org/NET/isbn9789525256062 ISBN 978-952-5256-06-2 (PDF) 24 pp. 21 cm Editions Menu Banal http://jlehmus.sdf-eu.org/editions jlehmus@sdf-eu.org July 14, 2007 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:38:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sylvester Pollet Subject: Joanne Kyger's About Now: Collected Poems Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:24:29 -0700 From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights Thank you, and you're quite right. Actually, JB Bryan is given credit for design on the copyright page, and in the list of illustrations. The cover image is from his collection. Betsy Rose of NPF did a lot of the production work at NPF. Burt Hatlen got us some grant support from the NEA. But, yes, lots of sweat-equity. I'm not naming everybody either, but a couple of us worked very closely with Joanne over two years or more--Ben Friedlander helping with selection and ordering, and I going through line by line with Joanne, via e-mail mostly. We're not exactly anonymous--we know who we are, and Joanne knows. The last section of the book, and the title, come from the broadside called Night Palace, #96 in my Backwoods Broadsides Chaplet Series, still available @ $1.00. I have sets of all 100 titles @ $100., if anyone's interested. I urge you all to take a look at the Kyger Collected--it really is a beautiful book, inside and out--a huge accomplishment for her, and an honor for those of us who worked on it with her. Sylvester Pollet (Associate Editor NPF) Backwoods Broadsides 963 Winkumpaugh Rd. Ellsworth Maine 04605 (like Bowering, fears a symmetrical cloister) However, I would - if I could - owe an apology to the folks at the National Poetry Foundation who edited the work and brought out this volume. Linda Russo wrote the Introduction, but I do not know if she had a larger hand in the edition, of which I suspect there must have been many folks, in order to get these 800 pages together! But the book gives not accounting of the names of the responsible editorial staff editorial labor, nor the typographer or printer. Beats me why those folks were not given public credit - I suspect it was more sweat than bucks that paid for much of the labor here - except for the printer. I think we should, at least, praise all of them in their anonymous absence! Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ > > > On Jul 13, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > > >> A packed upstairs City Lights Poetry Room, and a lovely, generous, >> tender, >> witful, wizened 'go through' of the just recently out, ABOUT NOW, >> Collected >> Poems (National Poetry Foundation), 798 pages of good paper stock, >> and, >> delightfully unsquished typography. A book that breathes, as in the >> case of >> Joanne, it is only right that it do so. What a satiric intelligence - >> aimed >> as much at herself as at the beings that inhabit the local spaces >> where - >> among much, much else - the righteous and self-important are destined >> to get >> mirrored, turned slightly, if not fully upside down, and (usually) >> released >> with a wit-spank. Whether it be Spicer, Duncan, the 'boy scout >> beatniks', >> or the world of Buddhist practice, the comedic is alive and well. >> "The >> Dharma Committee" papers, and bulletins are probably the best and >> most >> hilarious/counter-pomp inside account we will ever get of the 1959 >> North >> Beach 'wars' and other associations among the Beats, Spicer, >> Duncan et >> al. >> >> "Jack Spicer organizes Zen singing at The Place." >> >> (Not that Spicer did not have an odd-ball humor, I suspect this is a >> Joanne >> invention. Actually several pieces on Spicer) >> >> "The Dharma Committee has a handshake and a sign which members cannot >> divulge. If they do they have to sit in a lotus position for 25 >> minutes and >> think about Jack Kerouac." >> >> "It was suggested by Robert Duncan that we all write >> Cock Poems for the next class. Splendid!" >> >> Along and among the social and personal wit - let alone the >> cracker-jack >> quick insight & intelligence - there is a radiance and warmth here >> where the >> person does not take herself off-puttingly serious, while the >> language, well >> "that" is seriously and continuously at play. >> >> And a kudu for Michael Rothenberg for being a strong editorial >> shoulder in >> getting Joanne's work into the public eye . >> >> And a big thank you to Joanne. >> >> Stephen V >> http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ >> >> >> > Bowering > A gerund and your friend. > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:40:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: The PJ's offer a smorgasbord: Vintage Taggart, Cocteau Twins, & Cerberus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Brainard's Pyjamas looks at a turning point in Taggart's youth, listens to some acoustic Cocteau Twins and gets picture happy around the house...happy Sunday, funday, hope you're barbecuing like we are....stop by for some grillled peppers and macaroni salad....it's all fired up at...http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/..."Abusing Nietzsche, they descend in their Joe Brainard pyjamas..." ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:04:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Killian Subject: Three events Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Hi there, I want to let you all know that my impressions of Art Basel 38 are on line now at FANZINE, www.thefanzine.com It's called "Diary of a Nobody," and it's quite long so give yourself a little time. The second thing is more for people who live here in San Francisco or who happen to be visiting tomorrow (Monday the 16th), I will be part of the local launch for FROZEN TEARS III, the latest volume of the UK art/writing/theory journal organized by British artist John Russell, http://www.frozentears.co.uk/frozen_tears_3/index.html We are having this at SF Camerawork on Monday between 5 and 7. Doors shut at 6 so if you are coming, come before 6 pm. Camerawork is at 657 Mission Street, second floor, right around the corner from SFMOMA. I'll be reading, Donal Mosher will be showing a slide presentation of some of his work in FTIII, and there will be a band playing, the re-united WINDOW WINDOW. Check it out! Finally, this is for people who may be visiting San Francisco within the next month or so. At Rebecca Miller's exhibition at Hideo Wakamatsu Tokyo (in the Mission at 563 Valencia Street at 17th), the highlight is a beautiful portrait of me and Dodie Bellamy as we were on our 21st anniversary earlier this month. Miller has dressed us in the neo hippie regalia of Kate Moss and Pete Doherty and I have never looked better. This show will be up through August 4 and is part of the Mission Art Walk sponsored by San Francisco's Intersection for the Arts. It's great for people who like to walk around San Francisco--like you, Stephen Vincent, and who knows, there are probably others. Thanks everyone, xxxx Kevin K. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:32:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: &now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From Logan Esdale. Please forward, post widely, etc. Thanks, JS > &Now 2008 > A Festival of Innovative Literature and Art > > http://andnowfestival.com/ > > April 15-17, 2008 > Chapman University > Orange, CA > > Anyone can submit a proposal. Submit proposals for papers by November > 1st, 2007 to submissions@andnowfestival.com. > > You can propose: > > * To do a reading from your own fiction. Please submit a short > excerpt from the work, 3 - 5 pages; a synopsis of the work, if you > like; a brief biography; any statement you would like to make about > the work. Please include a list of any equipment you will need to > make your presentation. > > * To form a panel of fiction readers made up of friends, colleagues, > writers of like-minded work, writers from the same publisher, etc. > etc. As above, for each writer. Please also include a statement > explaining/describing the make-up of the panel. > > * To form a panel for the presentation of papers with discussion on a > theoretical topic relating to fiction and/or the practice of writing. > Please include a brief description of the topic, and let us know if > you already have panelists in mind, or if you would like us to put > out a call for panelists. Please include a list of any equipment you > will need to make your presentation. > > * Any other panel or format you might think would benefit the > conference. Please provide us with a detailed description of the > panel you are proposing, and include a list of any equipment you will > need to make your presentation > > Please see the website for more details > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:05:49 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: blacksox@ATT.NET Subject: AUSTINS 7-18 -- Tritt & Darkhorse** Orlando MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Austins Coffee and Film DOUBLE FEATURE Adam Byrn Tritt & Donnie Darkhorse Plus Open mike Wednesday July 18, 8:30pm The Orlando Poetry Group 3rd Wednesday meetup 929 w. Fairbanks Ave , Winter Park Fl, Award winning poet Adam Byrn Tritt & Donnie Darkhorse-National book tour Plus Orlando’s best open mic This is going to be a night to remember! DO NOT MISS THIS EVENT Hosted by Russ Golata Directions or comments e-mail blacksox@att.net Or phone 407-403-5814 Or Austin’s at 407-975-3364 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:44:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 14, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Stephen Vincent wrote: >> Stephen, >> >> Thanks for the report on the Kyger reading. >> Good to hear something of it. >> >> >> But "a kudo" ? > George,you must be referring to my misspelling, "kudu"?? Actually I > prefer > the change in the vowel to a "u:, the sound of it. "Kudo" always sounds > related to cooties or a sappy voiced radio guy vaguely congratulating > somebody for pulling off a good March of Dimes on a rainy day. I think that you might be right. But we don't need the sound of "kudo," I think, because there is no such word. > > Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw attention to > Michael Rothenberg's accomplishments with the Penguin series - the > Meltzer, > Dorn,Whalen, Kyger, and several other Selecteds that he has managed to > bring > together. It is unlikely that any other major Press would have picked > them > up (such as FSG, Ecco, Wesleyan, maybe UC Press). Joanne, at least, > for a > larger public, was not big on any body's radar. Michael must have had > real > persuasive power, or a very good connection with a Penguin inmate, to > bring > that series. (Penguin, I understand, measures sales in pounds, not by > the > number titles sold!) You are right again. It is something to be thankful to Penguin for (and I am not plumping for my publisher. they have done lots of my prose but no poetry). I was just the other day writing something about those wonderful Penguin books of translated poetry back when I was a tyro. We had the Garcia Lorca, Rilke, Rimbaud, etc. The original poem printed on one page and a prose translation on the facing page. I can expect that Penguin will expect to make money out of their Kerouac books, but you are right--they won't out of those others. if they are getting some grant in aid, that implies another place to say thanks to. > Mr. G.H.Bowering Does not roll through stop signs. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:29:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Sad news Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This came to me from another poet. Passing it on in the hope/belief that all good wishes beneficent thoughts are effective on some level. I performed with him once & remember his strong energy & good heart. Thanks, Diane di Prima ------------------------------ Forwarded message: just sending out the word. Lamont Steptoe just called me and asked me to pass on the word. It seems Sekou Sundiata had a heart attack yesterday and is in critical condition. Let's keep this strong spirited poet in our thoughts, meditations, and prayers. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 21:01:57 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ken Rumble Subject: Poker #8 & Saltgrass #1 @ Any Book... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Don't call it a comeback: http://anybook.blogspot.com Poker 8 & Saltgrass 1 xo, Ken -- Check out my new book Key Bridge: http://www.carolinawrenpress.org/books.html Reviews of Key Bridge: Ron Silliman: http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-know-ken-rumble-originally-from-his.html Mathias Svalina: http://mathiassvalina.blogspot.com/2007/03/key-bridge.html John Deming/Coldfront Magazine: http://reviews.coldfrontmag.com/2007/03/key_bridge_by_k.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 00:43:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Marilyn Manson Gives Dating Advice in "Ask Marilyn" & Hu Jintao sees the future MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Ask Marilyn" has Goth ominisexual being Marilyn Manson giving dating advice to kids and a sequence of sonnets pairs dictators with birds on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...there's also an elegy in the good old fashioned Thomas Gray way....well an interstate instead of a cemetery but....come hither to alleviate the crushing weight of Monday to....http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/..."in the rooms they come and go...wearing Joe Brainard pyjamas mostly...." ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 01:36:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Ricejunk2@frontiernet.net" Subject: About ARTISANworks in Rochester, NY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, This is the only email I will send regarding this topic. Thanks in =20 advance for listening because I think this is important. Please pass =20 this on, to anyone who may be interested in this information/topic; =20 thank you. I am in no way professionally associated with this =20 business, however, I am concerned about the "health" of Artisan Works. They call themselves "The place where art lives" and, if you have ever =20 been there, you know they tell the truth. This warehouse-sized gallery =20 space is beyond beautiful, amazing, exciting, intriguing... but I am =20 concerned because a friend has told me they had to reduce their hours =20 and are struggling due to a lack of funding. What can you do about it? Well, if you have never been, you should try to go... at least once! =20 Once may not be enough , to see everything on display. I see new items =20 every time I go there. It is one of my personal favorite places to go; =20 if I had the choice between the Albright-Knox in Buffalo, Memorial =20 Art Gallery in Rochester, or Artisan Works, I would choose Artisan =20 Works. It would be a tough decision, depending on current exhibits at =20 the galleries, but AW's eclectic mix is a winner. Artisan Works' collections range from the visually absurd, to the =20 beautiful classics, to really interesting original ideas in art. Some =20 are so original that I recall them individually, months after seeing =20 them last. These varying types of art hang or sit side-by-side. There =20 is "stuff" hanging/sitting/etc... everywhere! Some of the artists may =20 be in their studios while you are there. Volunteer workers may greet =20 you when you enter, and offer directions if you want to see something =20 specific. There is a Frank Lloyd Wright room which is pretty amazing. =20 I recall an indoor fountain and lots of sculpture. Rooms upstairs are =20 full of photos. A rooftop garden offers a unique "getaway" for events =20 and such; outdoor sculptures surround. Too much to note here... I AM INSPIRED TO WRITE prolifically whenever I visit this lovely place. I will openly acknowledge that this is not the only struggling =20 creative nonprofit business. However, their sudden struggle is a =20 surprise situation and they are a truly unique space within the city =20 of Rochester. I've pasted below some information, as well as links to their site, if =20 you choose to consider Artisan Works. Their admission is now $12, =20 possibly due to the funding issues, but I added up the cost for a =20 family of five to visit ONCE... and it is the same price as a =20 household MEMBERSHIP! There are only three in my family, but I am =20 going to get a membership. I want to spend more time at Artisan Works, =20 and I can't do that if they can't make it. What about you? Will you consider a membership? Students can be =20 members for $30. You can get a household membership for twice that =20 amount (two adults and all resident children 18 & under). Two-year =20 memberships are discounted even further. Let's show Artisan Works how =20 much we love their mission, and the gracious way they have filled... =20 their giant available space... with art of every kind and support for =20 every artist... Smiles!! Very Sincerely, T. F. Rice THEIR HOME PAGE: http://www.artisanworks.net/ ABOUT ARTISAN WORKS: http://www.artisanworks.net/metal_arts.htm =20 Open to The Public: Fri and Sat 11am - 6pm Sun noon - 5pm 565 Blossom Rd.Ste L Rochester, NY 14610 tel: 585.288.7170 fax: 585.288.7186 email: =20 ktrenholm@att.net www.artisanworks.net =20 Located on Blossom Road near the =20 corner of Winton Road in the Blossom =20 Business Center. Enter the parking lot at the large eagle, turn hard right, and enter at our painted train door. =20 Admission: $12 adults $8 seniors and students Members Free Guided group tour admission: $12 adults $8 seniors and students MEMBERSHIP INFO: Household $60 ($100 for 2-years) All individual benefits extended to two adults and resident =20 children 18 and under, plus: 4 complimentary guest passes An ARTISANworks mug Individual $45 ($75 for 2-years) Unlimited free admission for the year 2 complimentary guest passes Invitations to Artisan Works events 10% discount at George Bailey Framing Student $30 Unlimited free admission for the year T. F. Rice Heralding the Art of Words in Western New York... The Other Herald theotherherald@yahoo.com www.tfrice.etsy.com Hidden Valley Farm, Publisher P. O. Box 172 Perry, NY 14530 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:20:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Kudo" first appeared as a singular of "kudos" about 1945. Hal "Generally speaking anybody is more interesting doing nothing than doing anything." --Gertrude Stein Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 15, 2007, at 4:44 PM, George Bowering wrote: > On Jul 14, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > >>> Stephen, >>> >>> Thanks for the report on the Kyger reading. >>> Good to hear something of it. >>> >>> >>> But "a kudo" ? >> George,you must be referring to my misspelling, "kudu"?? Actually >> I prefer >> the change in the vowel to a "u:, the sound of it. "Kudo" always >> sounds >> related to cooties or a sappy voiced radio guy vaguely congratulating >> somebody for pulling off a good March of Dimes on a rainy day. > > I think that you might be right. But we don't need the sound of > "kudo," > I think, because there is no such word. > > >> >> Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw >> attention to >> Michael Rothenberg's accomplishments with the Penguin series - the >> Meltzer, >> Dorn,Whalen, Kyger, and several other Selecteds that he has >> managed to bring >> together. It is unlikely that any other major Press would have >> picked them >> up (such as FSG, Ecco, Wesleyan, maybe UC Press). Joanne, at >> least, for a >> larger public, was not big on any body's radar. Michael must have >> had real >> persuasive power, or a very good connection with a Penguin inmate, >> to bring >> that series. (Penguin, I understand, measures sales in pounds, not >> by the >> number titles sold!) > > You are right again. It is something to be thankful to Penguin for > (and I am not > plumping for my publisher. they have done lots of my prose but no > poetry). I was > just the other day writing something about those wonderful Penguin > books of > translated poetry back when I was a tyro. We had the Garcia Lorca, > Rilke, > Rimbaud, etc. The original poem printed on one page and a prose > translation > on the facing page. I can expect that Penguin will expect to make > money out of > their Kerouac books, but you are right--they won't out of those > others. if they > are getting some grant in aid, that implies another place to say > thanks to. >> > > > > > > Mr. G.H.Bowering > Does not roll through stop signs. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 13:21:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Allegrezza Subject: Heartland Poetry Prize MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2007 Heartland Poetry Prize! Description The Heart Poetry Prize is given to a book of poetry or cross genre work by a poet who has published no more than two books and who resides in the following states: Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Kentucky, Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Minnesota, Florida, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, West Virginia, Georgia, Idaho, or Montana. Entrance Fee The entrance fee is $20 per manuscript made payable to Cracked Slab Books. The author should send with the manuscript a CD of the work in *Word* format. The deadline is September 20th, 2007. Prize The prize is limited to works in English that are innovative and experimental. The Heartland Prize includes for the winner a $500 payment, 50 copies of the book, and a four city reading tour. Send submissions to: Cracked Slab Books c/o Bill Allegrezza 1151 E. 56th #2 Chicago, IL 60637 For more information, please see crackedslabbooks.com. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:26:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Sad news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit very sad sekuo i know well and he is a poet of the best quality heart gut spoken with one of the richest of voices On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:29:49 -0700 Diane DiPrima writes: > This came to me from another poet. > > Passing it on in the hope/belief that all good wishes beneficent > thoughts > are effective on some level. > > I performed with him once & remember his strong energy & good > heart. > > > > Thanks, Diane di Prima > ------------------------------ > > Forwarded message: > > > just sending out the word. Lamont Steptoe just called me and asked > me to > pass on the word. It seems Sekou Sundiata had a heart attack > yesterday and > is in critical condition. Let's keep this strong spirited poet in > our > thoughts, meditations, and prayers. > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:15:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: BABEL link MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the follow-up. The babel link in the previous email had a stray = period that caused problems. Here's the proper link to the BABEL website: http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:10:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Irony In-Reply-To: <20070713053534.85269.qmail@web32911.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable thanks for the support, Herr Petermeier -- I knew I was up shit's creek early on in this job when I was hauled into a big auditorium and shown a 10 minute "fireside chat" given by the U of M president, where he browbeat the willing new hires with expressions like "We must maintain STRONG INTERNAL CONTROL" -- the scene strikes me as something worthy of a sequel to "1984". haven't had the pleasure of working for GK, though he has baked cookies for my wife -- is that ironic or just weird?=20 Bobby Zimmerman is a homie -- I even davvened with him a few years back at our local shul.=20 peculiar, yes, but that's what you get when you maintain STRONG INTERNAL CONTROL. tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steve Petermeier Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 0:36 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Irony On Thu, 12 Jul 2007, Tom W. Lewis wrote: > which I find to be very uncomfortable now that I've > settled in the upper midwest, 'cause most people > "don't do irony" around here -- I am convinced that > this was a factor in at least one dismissal, because > my straight-shooting, echt-Minnesotan supervisor > could not understand where I was coming from: after > a year, it was curtains for me and my "foreign-born" > ironic attitude. =20 Hey, Garrison Keillor is just plain tough to work for, but I think he's fired some non-ironic, echt-Minnesotans, too, and even some Danes. (Garrison ain't all that echt anyway, even if he can name all the counties by memory.) Maybe you'll have better luck if you start hanging out with some guys from the Iron Range. There's some guy from Hibbing who knows a thing or two about "irony," donchya know? pac, lov, and undrstanding (nvr giv up!) Stv Ptrmir no man's land minnapolis, mn usa =20 ________________________________________________________________________ ____________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search=20 that gives answers, not web links.=20 http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=3D1ONXIC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:08:04 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Mahmoud Darwish MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This morning's A.P. has a brief story about Darwish's appearance in = Haifa yesterday: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Palestinians-Poet.html If anyone hears of a way to obtain a copy of his speech, in print or = audio, online or otherwise, I'd be very interested. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:42:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Kelleher Subject: ANNOUNCING BABEL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BABEL =2E..a series of readings and conversations with the world's best writers a= t the Church, downtown Buffalo's most exciting address for the arts. Just Buffalo Literary Center and Hallwalls are proud to introduce Babel, an= exciting new reading and conversation series that will feature four acclai= med international authors each year. Babel will support the Buffalo Niagara= region=E2=80=99s ongoing efforts to define and promote itself as a vibrant= center for the exploration of global cultures. In our first season, we wil= l present two Nobel Prize winners, one Man Booker Prize winner, and an accl= aimed Broadway playwright. Here=E2=80=99s the season in a nutshell: November 8 Orhan Pamuk, Turkey, author of Snow, Winner of the 2006 Nobel Pr= ize in Literature December 7=C2=A0Ariel Dorfman, Chile, Author of Death and the Maiden March 13=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, poet, Winner of = the 1992 Nobel Prize in Literature April 24=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Kiran Desai, India, autho= r of The Inheritance of Loss, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize in Fictio= n In collaboration with the International Institute of Buffalo, Just Buffalo = will create and distribute readers=E2=80=99 guides and informational packet= s to increase understanding of the cultural forces at play in each author= =E2=80=99s work. These activities will culminate with each author visiting = Buffalo to directly engage local audiences in an open dialogue centered on = their work. They will read excerpts, discuss their ideas and inspiration, = sign books, answer audience questions, and attend a reception. Each event will be preceded by a month=E2=80=99s worth of cultural activiti= es related to the culture of the author, including: book discussions, topic= panels, cooking demonstrations and food tastings, musical programs, and mo= re. Our signature program, =E2=80=9CIf All Of Buffalo Read the Same Book,= =E2=80=9D will continue through Babel, as we will choose one book by each a= uthor and encourage the entire city to read it. Members of Just Buffalo/CEPA Gallery/Big Orbit Gallery, Hallwalls and the I= nternational Institute of Buffalo can subscribe to this series at an early = bird member discount from now until September 1 at a special member rate of= =2460. Book groups (minimum three people) can also subscribe at a special = rate of =2460 per person for the whole season.That=E2=80=99s just =2415 per= event to see some of the greatest living authors in the world. Regular sub= scriptions are =2475. If there are any left, tickets for individual events = will go on sale October 10 for =2425 per person per event. To subscribe or to find out more about the authors, visit: http://www.justb= uffalo.org/babel. Book group subscriptions by phone only at 832-5400.=00 BABEL is made possible by a grant from the John R. Oishei Foundation. Other BABEL funding comes from: The National Endowment for the Arts; The Ne= w York State Council on the Arts (NYSCA); Erie County Cultural Funding. BABEL MEDIA SPONSORS: Artvoice, Buffalo Spree, WBFO 88.7 fm. BABEL sponsors and partners: Righteous Babe Records, UB Humanities Institut= e, The Mansion on Delaware Avenue, Hallwalls, Just Buffalo, & The Internati= onal Institute of Buffalo. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:30:20 -0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: North-5 Text-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is #21 of a projected 35 texts: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/North-5/text-1.htm Introduction: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/North/Intro.htm Notes:=20 The forward button in the right-hand lower corner is not active yet. The back button in the left-hand lower corner leads to Contents page. Designed for screen resolution: 1024x768; Text size: Medium; Monitor: = 17" or larger; Browser: MS Explorer preferred. (On Foxfire, a few design changes are = usually found.)=20 Paratext boxes are opened by holding cursor over words. =20 -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:27:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit >>> But "a kudo" ? >> George,you must be referring to my misspelling, "kudu"?? Actually I >> prefer >> the change in the vowel to a "u:, the sound of it. "Kudo" always sounds >> related to cooties or a sappy voiced radio guy vaguely congratulating >> somebody for pulling off a good March of Dimes on a rainy day. > > I think that you might be right. But we don't need the sound of "kudo," > I think, because there is no such word. What's a poet for, George, but shadings and inventions, new constructs and such! By the way, an authoritative source informs me that there absolutely false or invented in Joanne Kyger's Dharma Committee accounts. Jack Spicer did convene an appearance of the Zen Singers on Blabber Mouth Night at The Place on Grant Street. For further info, consult all of the DC reports in the book. > > >> >> Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw attention to >> Michael Rothenberg's accomplishments with the Penguin series - the >> Meltzer, >> Dorn,Whalen, Kyger, and several other Selecteds that he has managed to >> bring >> together. It is unlikely that any other major Press would have picked >> them >> up (such as FSG, Ecco, Wesleyan, maybe UC Press). Joanne, at least, >> for a >> larger public, was not big on any body's radar. Michael must have had >> real >> persuasive power, or a very good connection with a Penguin inmate, to >> bring >> that series. (Penguin, I understand, measures sales in pounds, not by >> the >> number titles sold!) > > You are right again. It is something to be thankful to Penguin for (and > I am not > plumping for my publisher. they have done lots of my prose but no > poetry). I was > just the other day writing something about those wonderful Penguin > books of > translated poetry back when I was a tyro. We had the Garcia Lorca, > Rilke, > Rimbaud, etc. The original poem printed on one page and a prose > translation > on the facing page. I can expect that Penguin will expect to make money > out of > their Kerouac books, but you are right--they won't out of those others. > if they > are getting some grant in aid, that implies another place to say thanks > to. >> > > > > > > Mr. G.H.Bowering > Does not roll through stop signs. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 07:23:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: <0C8AAE45-969D-4E6A-91F7-501792BEF50C@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit There was no such year. gb On Jul 16, 2007, at 6:20 AM, Halvard Johnson wrote: > "Kudo" first appeared as a singular of "kudos" > about 1945. > > Hal > > "Generally speaking anybody is more > interesting doing nothing than doing > anything." > --Gertrude Stein > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jul 15, 2007, at 4:44 PM, George Bowering wrote: > >> On Jul 14, 2007, at 5:24 PM, Stephen Vincent wrote: >> >>>> Stephen, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the report on the Kyger reading. >>>> Good to hear something of it. >>>> >>>> >>>> But "a kudo" ? >>> George,you must be referring to my misspelling, "kudu"?? Actually I >>> prefer >>> the change in the vowel to a "u:, the sound of it. "Kudo" always >>> sounds >>> related to cooties or a sappy voiced radio guy vaguely congratulating >>> somebody for pulling off a good March of Dimes on a rainy day. >> >> I think that you might be right. But we don't need the sound of >> "kudo," >> I think, because there is no such word. >> >> >>> >>> Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw attention >>> to >>> Michael Rothenberg's accomplishments with the Penguin series - the >>> Meltzer, >>> Dorn,Whalen, Kyger, and several other Selecteds that he has managed >>> to bring >>> together. It is unlikely that any other major Press would have >>> picked them >>> up (such as FSG, Ecco, Wesleyan, maybe UC Press). Joanne, at least, >>> for a >>> larger public, was not big on any body's radar. Michael must have >>> had real >>> persuasive power, or a very good connection with a Penguin inmate, >>> to bring >>> that series. (Penguin, I understand, measures sales in pounds, not >>> by the >>> number titles sold!) >> >> You are right again. It is something to be thankful to Penguin for >> (and I am not >> plumping for my publisher. they have done lots of my prose but no >> poetry). I was >> just the other day writing something about those wonderful Penguin >> books of >> translated poetry back when I was a tyro. We had the Garcia Lorca, >> Rilke, >> Rimbaud, etc. The original poem printed on one page and a prose >> translation >> on the facing page. I can expect that Penguin will expect to make >> money out of >> their Kerouac books, but you are right--they won't out of those >> others. if they >> are getting some grant in aid, that implies another place to say >> thanks to. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Mr. G.H.Bowering >> Does not roll through stop signs. > > George Harry Bowering, Never got his share. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 13:12:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Blood Tantra, Second Life MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Blood Tantra, Second Life http://www.asondheim.org/slblood.mp4 You: beneath the waves, i'm You: yes i can cannot i with my foot surrounding my neck You: who will read my You: now i am transformed into an impossible position You: slow as can be, this You: tired as i am, this lake You: so back for i am/furious leaning You: /if you are lucky you may see my face You: /if you are lucky you may caress me /jjj You: /i am complete i will turn and stare your engagement to me You: not quite your engagement /mmm You: my back towards you i am typing furiously i am turning You: turning you around when you stop this You: now i am through myself and through you You: prims are not primitive but primeval but primevaluation /ooo You: /i will turn dawn will turn dusk for you against the red sea You: of my menses /ttt You: you cannot track me, i face towards your hieroglyph right your hieroglyph left You: recognizing this is always the only remnant of inscription me /rrr You: coming closer, feet in the air against red sunset blood menses imagination You: while inscriptive devices active my text as it were my very self You: my very self absent from this space /ppp You: o! shall i have the encumberance of acting for you in this writing You: i am neither here nor there i disappear my bones disappear /[[[ You: my face disappear /]]] You: i am bound by the edges of the world my blood is everywhere You: the world swallows my blood the world swallows me /888 You: the world is all that is the casein the world drowns me in my blood You: oh my children /777 You: oh my children /666 You: i am turned inside out for you i am face left for you face right for you /444 You: my arm are broken my leg are broken my arm move my leg move /222 You: of what is the gathering /ooo You: of text when i will speak through blood through /ddd /ddd You: so quickly will i speak through /bbb /bbb You: so quickly will i drown in /lll /lll You: i want you /666 You: i face you first time i come towards you first time /666 /666 You: you see my face you see my loving skin you inside my skin = You: you record my skin you choose me among the stars You: you suckle the interior of my breasts my womb my mouth You: you come in my belly my things you come in legs and arms You: i will stare you come towards me /vvv /vvv /vvv You: =i You: i will stare you come through me oh the blood stars await elsewhere on other other side You: blood stars of my skin my flesh you will read my inscribe you will think You: =you will think you yes yes have me /555 You: you will think you yes yes yes own me /hhh/hhh You: my veins are your veins my blood your blood my menses your menses You: more of anything than this my ocean your ocean my seas your seas /iii /iii You: =of the darkling world this wood You: of the darkling world this wooing You: /zzz /zzz of the darkling world this bone skin flesh skin text /zzz You: =of the skin of this flesh /zzzz You: of the skin of this flesh of the bones of my lips you shall not penetrate You: my lips you shall not penetrate /qqq /qqq /qqq /qqq /qqq You: =i am your interior i write into your interior You: i am the world and the letter You: the world is the letter You: the world is the letter You: the letter is the world You: /eee /eee You: =goodbye my letter eye goodbye /iii === ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:54:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sara marcus Subject: Robert Gl=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=FCck?= + Laurie Weeks read Tuesday, July 17 (NYC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline If you're in New York this week, please consider venturing out for this sure-to-be-lovely event. QT: Queer Readings at Dixon Place presents a reading by the very wonderful ROBERT GL=DCCK + LAURIE WEEKS Tuesday, July 17 Doors at 7 PM / Reading at 7:30 Part of HOT!: The NYC Celebration of Queer Culture at Dixon Place: 258 Bowery, 2nd Fl, b/w Houston & Prince I go outside and see the teeth of an iron rake extending past the edge of the shed. Brutal teeth of the rake sharp music against the sky. I'm covered with water, standing suddenly in the road and next to me on its sizzling liquid surface light shimmers dimly and yellowly twists. Raindrops swarm up from the street, illuminated in the headlights of a car. Down the road a team of men, vague black shapes in front of a pickup, run the chainsaw beneath a streetlamp. --Laurie Weeks, "Robins" To destroy an image, show it by example how delicious one's own blood is. With pride I list the inadequacies, the toilet's vile blue water, my laziness and envy, the woman pulling her collar over her jacket lapel, sting of a light wind, distant corporate thrum, checkered landscape, deviations of some river, light beginning to cluster along its banks. --Robert Gl=FCck, "Batlike, Wolflike" --- QT: Queer Readings at Dixon Place http://qt-readings.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/qtreadings ~Upcoming readings:~ November 27 Billy Merrell + Justin Torres December 18 Akilah Oliver + Stacy Szymaszek ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:02:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ALDON L NIELSEN Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS - African American Literature Comments: cc: L-Poconater@lists.psu.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 CALL FOR PAPERS The ALA African American Literature and Culture Society Symposium Theme: “Traditions and Revisions: New Directions in African American Literature and Scholarship” October 25-27, 2007 St. Louis University (Home of African American Review) St. Louis, MO Proposals for informal panel discussions, sessions, roundtables, workshops, and traditional paper presentations that reflect the conference theme are welcome on the following topics: Preservation of Archives Archiving Contemporary Writers Constructing an Online Directory of Manuscript Sites Defining the Marker “African American” in the 21st Century Maintaining Distinctions Between Criticism and Scholarship The History and Contributions of African American Journals New Approaches to Teaching African American Literature The History and Contributions of Black Presses Black Skins/Electronic Skins and Changes in African American Writing Post-Post-Modern Scholarship and Criticism The Role of Scholars in African American Literature Translating African American Literature into Other Languages The Current State of African American Studies and Criticism The Economic and Literary Politics of African American Literature An Examination of Major African American Texts of the 20th Century Conference Director: Loretta G. Woodard, Marygrove College Please submit 400-500 word proposals via email to lwoodard@marygrove.edu. Deadline for Proposals: July 30, 2007, for notification by August 15, 2007. Early submissions are welcome and appreciated. Conference Fee: $130.00 (pre-registration before September 10, 2007) $140 (on-site registration or if received after September 10, 2007.) The conference fee covers the costs of the conference, including two lunches and two receptions. Hotel Rate: The Water Tower Inn, which is located on the campus and 20 minutes from the Lambert St. Louis International Airport (STL), is offering a special rate of $75.00 plus tax per night for a single or double room. Please make your reservations by calling 314.977.7500 and asking for the “ALA/AALCS Symposium 2007” rate before September 25. Additional conference details regarding registration and special events will be posted at the AALCS website: http://aalcs.marygrove.edu and the ALA website: www.americanliterature.org. ALA symposia provide opportunities for scholars to meet in pleasant settings, present papers, and share ideas and resources. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are enslaved by what makes us free -- intolerable paradox at the heart of speech. --Robert Kelly Sailing the blogosphere at: http://heatstrings.blogspot.com/ Aldon L. Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature The Pennsylvania State University 116 Burrowes University Park, PA 16802-6200 (814) 865-0091 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:42:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sam Truitt Subject: "Days" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit As some of you may know, in a work entitled "Days" I've been making an improvisational audio-photo poem ("phoetry") - like the "strips" of "Transverse," some of which are on ubu.com - each 24-hour day so far of 2007. I just recently posted a slew to get relatively caught up and so thought to post word, thus: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Samtruitt Youtube allows for comments, and I would be pleased to read your takes. I can say these are different from "Transverse" in that I am no longer in NYC and so not walking as much and so much of these happen in a state of standing, sitting or driving (though not sleeping yet). Many thanks for looking as you may. Sam --------------------------------- Bored stiff? Loosen up... Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:35:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: It was Joanne Kyger at City Lights In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I wrote this too early on a Monday morning - > By the way, an authoritative source informs me that there ARE absolutely No >false or invented Accounts in Joanne Kyger's Dharma Committee reports. Jack >Spicer did convene an appearance of the Zen Singers on Blabber Mouth Night at >The Place on Grant Street. For further info, consult all of the DC reports in >the book. And thanks to Sylvester Pollet for the additional info on editors and designer behind the making of the book. Stephen V > > > > > > > >> >> >>> >>> Back in reality I should say I was really wanting to draw attention to ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 15:49:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. 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IHdoZW4gSSB3YXMgYSB0eXJvLiBXZSBoYWQgdGhlIEdhcmNpYSBMb3JjYSwNCj4gUmlsa2UsDQo+ IFJpbWJhdWQsIGV0Yy4gVGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHBvZW0gcHJpbnRlZCBvbiBvbmUgcGFnZSBhbmQg YSBwcm9zZQ0KPiB0cmFuc2xhdGlvbg0KPiBvbiB0aGUgZmFjaW5nIHBhZ2UuIEkgY2FuIGV4cGVj dCB0aGF0IFBlbmd1aW4gd2lsbCBleHBlY3QgdG8gbWFrZSBtb25leQ0KPiBvdXQgb2YNCj4gdGhl aXIgS2Vyb3VhYyBib29rcywgYnV0IHlvdSBhcmUgcmlnaHQtLXRoZXkgd29uJ3Qgb3V0IG9mIHRo b3NlIG90aGVycy4NCj4gaWYgdGhleQ0KPiBhcmUgZ2V0dGluZyBzb21lIGdyYW50IGluIGFpZCwg dGhhdCBpbXBsaWVzIGFub3RoZXIgcGxhY2UgdG8gc2F5IHRoYW5rcw0KPiB0by4NCj4+IA0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE1yLiBHLkguQm93ZXJpbmcNCj4gRG9lcyBub3Qgcm9sbCB0aHJv dWdoIHN0b3Agc2lnbnMuDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:52:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Mahmoud Darwish In-Reply-To: <000c01c7c7c3$82f4cd20$0d2b1341@JEFFREY> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline There are many articles on line--the easiet way to find them is to type in search for Mahmoud Darwish-- and you will see "top news stories" for him-- i have eletronic intifada but wasn't yet in that--so check there again-- (they have very good cultural coverage, reviewers of all the arts, books, etc) also the Israeli papers on line if not listed among the "top news"-- it's most interesting to read the accounts in the various different countries' papers-- On 7/16/07, Crane's Bill Books wrote: > > This morning's A.P. has a brief story about Darwish's appearance in Haifa > yesterday: > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Palestinians-Poet.html > If anyone hears of a way to obtain a copy of his speech, in print or > audio, online or otherwise, I'd be very interested. > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:42:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Heartland Poetry Prize In-Reply-To: <7ebc05130707161121o7dfb6b39o96c1806d399155ff@mail.gmail.co m> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A more apt name would be "The Hinterland Prize." At 02:21 PM 7/16/2007, you wrote: >2007 Heartland Poetry Prize! > > >Description > >The Heart Poetry Prize is given to a book of poetry or cross genre work by a >poet who has published no more than two books and who resides in the >following states: > >Ohio, Indiana, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois, Kentucky, Nebraska, Missouri, >Kansas, Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Minnesota, Florida, Utah, >Wyoming, Colorado, Louisiana, Texas, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, >West Virginia, Georgia, Idaho, or Montana. > >Entrance Fee > >The entrance fee is $20 per manuscript made payable to Cracked Slab >Books. The >author should send with the manuscript a CD of the work in *Word* format. The >deadline is September 20th, 2007. > > >Prize > >The prize is limited to works in English that are innovative and >experimental. The Heartland Prize includes for the winner a $500 payment, >50 copies of the book, and a four city reading tour. > > >Send submissions to: > >Cracked Slab Books >c/o Bill Allegrezza >1151 E. 56th #2 >Chicago, IL 60637 > >For more information, please see crackedslabbooks.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:49:58 +1000 Reply-To: John Tranter Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: "Announcing Jacket 33 - July 2007" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0D=0A"Announcing Jacket 33 - July 2007" Guest editor: Pam Brown=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Feature =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Gordon Ball: Unknown Collaborators: photos from the world of Allen Ginsberg= and his many friends among the Beats, from 1969 to Ginsberg's death in 199= 7=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Feature =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pieces on "Pieces of Air in the Epic", by Brenda Hillman: Barbara Claire Fr= eeman, Editor. "The generic convention of the book review is monologic; however nuanced an= d subtle, the constraints of the form typically allow the inclusion of only= one perspective. This collection of short texts on the poems in Brenda Hil= lman's Pieces of Air in the Epic intends first, to present a kind of collec= tive 'book review,' that is, a form of writing about poems that demands a p= lurality of individual voices; and second, to provide a forum in which poet= s respond to and explore a particular poem." - B.C.F. Introduction, by Barbara Claire Freeman Marjorie Welish Graham Foust Evie Shockley C.D. Wright Forrest Gander Carol Snow Robert Hass Michael Davidson Claudia Keelan Robert Kaufman Norma Cole Marjorie Perloff Geoffrey G. O'Brien Juliana Spahr Calvin Bedient Reginald Shepherd Cole Swensen Elizabeth Robinson Nathaniel Tarn Bin Ramke Donald Revell Patricia Dienstfrey Michael Palmer Brenda Hillman was born in Tucson, Arizona in 1951. After receiving her B.A= . at Pomona College, she attended the University of Iowa, where she receive= d her M.F.A. in 1976.She has published seven collections of poetry: White D= ress (1985), Fortress (1989), Death Tractates (1992), Bright Existence (199= 3), Loose Sugar (1997) and Cascadia (2001), Pieces of Air in the Epic (2005= ); all published by Wesleyan University Press. She resides in the San Franc= isco Bay Area; she is married and has a daughter. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Reviews =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Adam Aitken: "The Accidental Cage" by Michelle Cahill=20 Stan Apps: "Folly", by Nada Gordon.=20 Stan Apps: "My Angie Dickinson", by Michael Magee=20 Cynthia Arrieu-King: "The Man Suit" by Zachary Schomburg=20 Bridget Brooklyn: "Passion", by Brane Mozetic, translated by Tamara Soban= =20 Andrew J. Browne: "Don't Ever Get Famous: Essays on New York Writing after = the New York School", edited by Daniel Kane.=20 Stephen Cope: "City Eclogue" by Ed Roberson=20 Penelope Cray: "The Wanton Sublime:A Florilegium of Whethers and Wonders" b= y Anna Rabinowitz=20 Mark Dickinson: "Leaves of Field": with "Open Woods" and "Moving Woods".by = Peter Larkin=20 Patrick James Dunagan: "Remembering Joel Oppenheimer" by Robert Bertholf=20 Martin Duwell: "Sugar Hits" by Philip Hammial=20 Michael Farrell: "Phosphorescence" by Graeme Miles=20 Cliff Fell: Eliot Weinberger, "What happened here" (second edition) and "Mu= hammad", both published by Verso, 2006.=20 Norbert Francis: Tosa Motokiyu (edited by Kent Johnson and Javier Alvarez).= "Also, With My Throat, I Shall Swallow Ten Thousand Swords: Araki Yasusada= 's Letters in English"=20 Noah Eli Gordon and Erik Anderson: Conversational Noise: Some Talk on "Some= Notes on My Programming", by Anselm Berrigan=20 Anne Heide: "hidde violeth i dde violet", by Kathleen Fraser=20 Cole Heinowitz: "Exchanges of Earth and Sky", by Jack Collom=20 Tom Hibbard: "Somebody Blew Up America and Other Poems", Amiri Baraka=20 Ben Hickman: "Remnants of Hannah" by Dara Wier=20 Carlos Hiraldo: "Unprotected Texts: Selected Poems, 1978-2006" by Thomas Be= ckett=20 Craig Johnson: "Poem for the End of Time and Other Poems" by Noelle Kocot= =20 Paul Kahn: "I Was Blown Back", by Norman Fischer=20 Carl Kelleher: "Shake" by Joshua Beckman=20 Jake Kennedy: "The Men" by Lisa Robertson=20 Marc Kipniss: "The Bird Hoverer", by Aaron Belz=20 Louise Landes Levi: "Sunswumthru a Building", by Bob Arnold=20 Michelle Mahoney: "The Pajamaist", by Matthew Zapruder=20 Jill M. Neziri: "Forth a Raven", by Christina Davis=20 Michael Quattrone: "Overnight", by Paul Violi=20 Dr Mark Seton: "The Kamikaze Mind", by Richard James Allen=20 Rob Stanton: "A panic that can still come upon me" by Peter Gizzi=20 Paul Stephens: "The External Combustion Engine" by Michael Ives=20 James Stuart: "From Now" by Johanna Drucker=20 Ezra Tessler: "The Stamp of Class: Reflections on Poetry and Social Class" = by Gary Lenhart=20 Dan Thomas-Glass: "Girly Man" and "World on Fire", both by Charles Bernstei= n=20 Marjorie Welish: "The Totality for Kids", by Joshua Clover=20 Interviews=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Interviews =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Kathleen Fraser in conversation with Sarah Rosenthal, 2007: "SR: Silence has been a central trope in your writing since early on. It ca= rries a range of meanings, from erasure to grief and loss to the spaciousne= ss of an open field. Perhaps we could trace some of the ways in which silen= ce has come up in your work over time."=20 George Bowering in conversation with Rachel Loden: Like a Radio in the Dark= : An Email Interview, 2007 Alison Knowles in conversation with Elizabeth-Jane Burnett, September 2006.= Alison Knowles is a visual artist known for her soundworks, installations,= performances, publications and association with Fluxus, the experimental a= vant-garde group formally founded in 1962.=20 Eleni Sikelianos, author of The California Poem, in conversation with Jesse= Morse=20 Catherine Wagner in conversation with Nathan Smith, 13 April 2007=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Articles =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D James Wallenstein: Ninnies and the Critics: "A Nest of Ninnies" by John Ash= bery and James Schuyler=20 Geoffrey Cruickshank- Hagenbuckle with Alexander Nouvel: ZAP! (Zukofsky, Ap= ollinaire, and the X Men)=20 Vernon Frazer and Kirpal Gordon: Who We Are Now: A Retrospective of Michael Rothenberg (60 pages)=20 Aram Saroyan: Contretemps: A Minimalist Parable=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Feature: Humor in Poetry =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D The Dangerfield Conundrum: A Roundtable on Humor in Poetry - 80 pages of di= scussion edited from 200 pages of postings to the HumPo List by Rachel Lode= n and K. Silem Mohammad, and featuring the voices of: George Bowering Maxine Chernoff Katie Degentesh Gabriel Gudding Rachel Loden Ange Mlinko K. Silem Mohammad D. A. Powell Ron Silliman Gary Sullivan=20 The Dangerfield Files, edited by Rachel Loden: poems from the HumPo List:= =20 Rachel Loden: Introduction George Bowering Maxine Chernoff Gabriel Gudding Rachel Loden Ange Mlinko K. Silem Mohammad D. A. Powell Ron Silliman Gary Sullivan =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Feature =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mark Weiss: Jos=E9 Mart=ED: "Jos=E9 Juli=E1n Mart=ED y P=E9rez (1853-1895) = may not be unique as a political poet-martyr (one thinks of Byron and Lorca= ), but he must have been one of the most politically involved. The very mod= el of the committed artist, he was 42 when he died in one of the first enga= gements of the second Cuban War of Independence, of which he had been chief= propagandist and one of the principal planners. He had spent his entire ad= ult life in exile, chiefly in Mexico City and New York."=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Poems =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mary Jo Bang: Three poems=20 Ken Bolton: Three poems: An Australian Suburban Garden; EUROPE; For various= movie directors=20 Michelle Cahill: Three poems: The Accidental Cage; Manhattan; Poppies=20 Justin Clemens: "The Mundiad", Book IV=20 Kelvin Corcoran: Three poems from 'Ulysses in the Car'=20 Alfred Corn: Two poems: Page and Cave; Trunk Show=20 Wystan Curnow: poem: Max=20 Norman Fischer: Formal Terms=20 Robert Gibbons: Two poems: That Internal World; At the End of Writing=20 Anna Gibbs: Culpable Blindness=20 John Hennessy: Coney Island Pilgrims=20 Katia Kapovich: Two poems: To Whom It May Concern; The Seventh String=20 Burt Kimmelman: Two poems: House, Normandy; Crumbs upon the Table=20 Rachel Loden: Three poems: Props to the Twentieth Century; Dick of the Dead= ; The Pure of Heart, Those Murderers=20 Rupert Loydell: Two poems: The Secret Life of Mist; The Secret Life of Ligh= t=20 Norman MacAfee: I Am Astro Place=20 Mark Mordue: Things That Year=20 John Muckle: Three Poems: Elizabeth Bishop; Nothing Wrong; Cyclomotors=20 Marc Nasdor: Five poems=20 Simon Robb: Excerpt from "Jane Fonda's Temple of Literature"=20 Sam Sampson: Three poems: The Ship Beautiful; Reel; Diagram=20 Don Share: On being philosophical=20 Jaya Savige: Two poems=20 Mark Schafer translates five poems by David Huerta=20 Jeffrey Side: Extracts from "Carrier of the Seed"=20 Stephen Sturgeon: Two poems: Friday; Fired=20 Paul Violi: Finish These Sentences=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The next issue of Jacket=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D is due in October.=20 From=20now until the Northern Harvest Moon on 26 September the Jacket edito= rs preserve their creative energies by entering a profound state of marsupi= al hibernation. Please do not disturb them!=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Jacket magazine:=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Editor: John Tranter=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Associate Editor: Pam Brown ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:18:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Indicting the Muse on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Muse is caught on COPS on Joe Brainard's Pyjamas, and yours truly pens a trio in memory of Schuyler while soaking in a tub overlooked by a feline...it's all quite legal at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:34:27 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: Dmitry Prigov, RIP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I posted this on my blog today, in memory of Prigov: Eugene Ostashevsky sent me an email yesterday with news of the passing of a great poet, artist, and cultural laborer, Dmitry Prigov. One of the great innovators and tireless experimenters of his generation, Prigov's massive poetic and artistic output (he once promised to write 25,000 poems) has yet to receive full acknowledgement or readership in the United States. As far as I know, the only full-length collection of his poems to appear in English has been Fifty Drops of Blood, translated by Cris Mattison and published by Ugly Duckling Presse. In honor of his life and work, I'm posting a few Prigov poems I translated a few years back. Tomorrow, I'll post an interview of Prigov that I did in 1996, versions of which appeared in COMBO. He was electrifyingly intelligent, hilariously gesticulating, and humanely generous to me, a young American stuttering his Russian and misunderstanding the scope of his project. Some Prigov poems: 1. In Japan I would be Catullus And in Rome I would be Hokusai And in Russia I am the same guy Who would have been Catallus in Japan And in Rome, Hokusai. 2. The plumber goes into the winter yard He looks: and the yard is already spring. It's the same way as with him now-- He was a schoolboy, and now he's a plumber. And the farther the more--farther is death, And before that ripe old age And before that, and before that, And before that--as is now, a plumber. 3. In the cafe of the house of Literators Poliseman drinks beer Drinks in his usual manner, Not even seeing the literary workers But they all look at him. Around him it is light and empty And all of their different arts In his presence don't mean anything He represents life, Appearing in the form of Duty. Life is short, but Art is long. And in the battle Life wins 4. Here is the Poliseman standing in place Watching everything, remembering Everything around and here is his pride The ambulance dressed all in white flies up to him Raises a fan of spring splashes Hands entwined they're walking together The heavens above them melt The ground disappears in this place. 5. It's not important the recorded milk production Cannot be compared to the real milk production Everything that's recorded is recorded in the heavens And if it will come to be not in two or three days Nevertheless it's really important when it will And in some high sense it's already come true And in some low sense everything will be forgotten And it's nearly been forgotten already Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:35:23 +0000 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Internships Available at FULCRUM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FULCRUM is currently looking for volunteer interns. MUST be in the Boston= / Cambridge area. The following assets are a plus: * interest in literature * bookkeeping skills * research skills * car * grant-writing skills * copywriting skills * marketing marketing skills * experience in publishing Other skills are of interest too, and even sheer enthusiasm goes a long w= ay. All interns are gratefully acknowledged in the journal and on our FUL= CRUM's website ( http://fulcrumpoetry.com ), with possibility of further = promotion. Whether interested or in doubt, contact Julia Kleyman, Directo= r of Marketing and Development, at office{AT}fulcrumpoetry.com with your = background, qualifications and availability (append your CV, if available= ). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 03:54:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: buddhist and 4 4 casio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The following were recorded on a Casio or other small keyboard (with built-in rhythm and minimal bass) a few years ago; I recently found the tape and added echo. 3 has some slow and moody 1 is furious and fast 2 is a continuation of 1 4 is fast-melodic. They're sections of a continuous 20 minute improvisation. I'm really happy with these - not only what I was able to do on the keyboard, but the surge of the music, tsunami. (This might have to do with an ongoing interview I'm doing about the music I did in the 60s. I think the Casio is from the late 90s. Apologies for the slightly large size of the mp3s but it's necessary; there's too much going on to cut back on the bandwidth.) Then there's buddhist immediately following (text). http://www.asondheim.org/casio1.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/casio2.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/casio3.mp3 http://www.asondheim.org/casio4.mp3 buddhist more "The The want. more "The tired tired "The I more tired. tired. more know more know the I more the less I "The I less less know more know don't don't know I the know." know." the know less But know." the the don't Oh But less less know." what know. don't don't Oh and Oh don't know." what more. to know." But Oh is what But Oh to less. and know. what To To Oh to more. am am more. and is so tired, to Oh To tired, so is to tired, want Jennifer, To less. Jennifer, play tired, so so want this want am tired, want play Jennifer, so Jennifer, play this play Jennifer, Jennifer, this game. want want want silly To this Jennifer, play game. game. play want game. you am silly play To want. you game. this am tired are silly silly are tired. want. To game. tired The game. you tired you want. tired. are tired The tired. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:31:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Red Rover Series / Experiment #14 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Red Rover Series {readings that play with reading} Experiment #14: Phases for I, Afterlife Featuring Kristin Prevallet Elizabeth Schmitz 8pm Saturday, July 21st at Lifeline Theatre 6912 N. Glenwood Ave Chicago, IL CTA Morse Red Line http://www.lifelinetheatre.com **special location for this event only** Suggested donation $12 (pay what you can) for reservations call 312-276-4072 A literary dance collaboration presented by David M. Schmitz From the Hip Dance Project and Red Rover Series Brought together by their father's suicide in 2000, this family of artists have come together to perform the work of mourning. Poet Kristin Prevallet will read selections from her new book, I Afterlife: An Essay in Mourning Time (Essay Press, 2007). Six dancers from the newly formed From the Hip Dance Project, choreographed by sister Elizabeth Schmitz, will echo the tones and themes of the material. KRISTIN PREVALLET's previous books include Shadow Evidence Intelligence (Factory School, 2006), Scratch Sides: Poetry, Documentation, and Image-Text Projects (Skanky Possum, 2002), and Perturbation, My Sister: A Study of Max Ernst's Hundred Headless Woman (First Intensity, 1997). Her essays, poems, and translations have appeared in several magazines including Jacket, The Nation, Chain, Poetry New York, Poets and Writers, Conjunctions, Seneca Review, Bombay Gin and The Chicago Review. She recently co-edited Third Mind: Creative Writing Through Visual Art with Tonya Foster (Teachers & Writers, 2002), an anthology of essays about the challenges and rewards of uniting art and writing in the classroom. Her selected edition of Helen Adam's ballads and collages, The Helen Adam Reader, is forthcoming from the National Poetry Foundation. She is a 2007 New York State Foundation for the Arts fellow, and teaches at St John’s University in Queens, NY. www.kayvallet.com www.essaypress.org ELIZABETH SCHMITZ received her B.A. in dance from Marymount Manhattan College in New York City. While in New York, she performed with Return of the Sun and Divino Ritmo Dance Company. In 2005 she completed a seven-month contract as a featured dancer for Holland America Cruise lines. She since has performed abroad, in France, Japan, and India. She now lives in Chicago and has performed with K-Theory, Valerie Alpert Dance Company, The Collective, and the Chicago Honey Bear Dancers. Most recently, she choreographed an original musical for Stage and Screen performing arts camp and taught master classes in London, England. Her choreography has been presented in New York at Marymount Manhattan College and with Return of the Sun at The Merce Cunningham Studio; in Chicago, at Rebound Dance, and Links Hall. This performance marks the debut for her dance company, From the Hip Dance Project. DAVID M. SCHMITZ is currently serving as the General Manager at Steppenwolf Theatre Company and as the Financial & Business Practice Consultant for the House Theatre of Chicago. Prior to joining Steppenwolf, David served as the General Manager at Lookingglass Theatre Company, the Business Manager at Adair Performance (a variety entertainment agency), and as the Executive Artistic Director of the This Isn’t Brain Surgery Production Company (Greeley, CO). David also works as a freelance theatre director, and is a member of the Stage Left Theatre Company ensemble. >>> D A N C E R S <<< AMANDA DOERR received her B.A. in Dance from the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point. Recently her choreography was presented at Rebound Dance Festival and she looks forward to presenting more in the future. Amanda currently teaches social dancing, beginner to advanced, at May I Have This Dance in Chicago. MELISSA MALLINSON has performed with many companies and independent artists. She is the Associate Artistic Director of Marquez Dance Project and a performer with Khecari Dance Theater. She graduated summa cum laude from the University of Michigan. AMANDA NEWMAN is a recent graduate from Columbia College Chicago with her B.A. in Musical Theater Performance. She has trained and studied with Natalie Rast, Anna Paskevska and Nana Shineflug. Her recent performances include the Open House Dance Collective, and the Human Rights Campaign’s Chicago Gala, "Tickled Pink." DIONNA PRIDGEON graduated from Point Park University (PA) with a B.A. in Dance. Currently she is a teaching artist for Hubbard Street and six other dance institutions across the Chicago-land area. She currently works with several dance companies including: Dance2xs, Pillowproject (PA), Corpo, and Cerqua Rivera. LAUREN RITTER graduated from Barat College with a B.A. in Dance and a B.A. in Humanities in 2005. She has studied with Rory Foster, Pamela Tanis, Greg Begley, Sarita Smith-Childs, Randy Duncan and many more. She has danced with numerous companies throughout the Chicago land area including, Forces of Nature and Matter Dance Company. >>> R E D R O V E R S E R I E S <<< is curated by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin. Founded in 2005, each Red Rover event is designed as a reading experiment with participation by local, national, and international writers, artists, and performers. Email ideas for reading experiments to us at redroverseries@yahoogroups.com The schedule of events is listed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redroverseries Coming up Experiment #15 August 20th with Zach Barocas and Joel Bettridge http://www.culturalsociety.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 00:18:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Sad news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit does anyone know what hospital sekou is in or his condition now? On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:29:49 -0700 Diane DiPrima writes: > This came to me from another poet. > > Passing it on in the hope/belief that all good wishes beneficent > thoughts > are effective on some level. > > I performed with him once & remember his strong energy & good > heart. > > > > Thanks, Diane di Prima > ------------------------------ > > Forwarded message: > > > just sending out the word. Lamont Steptoe just called me and asked > me to > pass on the word. It seems Sekou Sundiata had a heart attack > yesterday and > is in critical condition. Let's keep this strong spirited poet in > our > thoughts, meditations, and prayers. > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:45:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: ANNOUNCING BABEL MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit speaking og world's best writers (qualify please) has anyone ever been nominted for any kind of pen award i was just informed by someone i know on the west coast committee that someone close to me has it was nice to hear ... in fact the person is so close to me it's a bit unnerving On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:42:46 -0400 Michael Kelleher writes: > BABEL > > ...a series of readings and conversations with the world's best > writers at the Church, downtown Buffalo's most exciting address for > the arts. > > Just Buffalo Literary Center and Hallwalls are proud to introduce > Babel, an exciting new reading and conversation series that will > feature four acclaimed international authors each year. Babel will > support the Buffalo Niagara region’s ongoing efforts to define and > promote itself as a vibrant center for the exploration of global > cultures. In our first season, we will present two Nobel Prize > winners, one Man Booker Prize winner, and an acclaimed Broadway > playwright. Here’s the season in a nutshell: > > November 8 Orhan Pamuk, Turkey, author of Snow, Winner of the 2006 > Nobel Prize in Literature > > December 7 Ariel Dorfman, Chile, Author of Death and the Maiden > > March 13 Derek Walcott, St. Lucia, poet, Winner of the 1992 > Nobel Prize in Literature > > April 24 Kiran Desai, India, author of The Inheritance > of Loss, Winner of the 2006 Man Booker Prize in Fiction > > In collaboration with the International Institute of Buffalo, Just > Buffalo will create and distribute readers’ guides and > informational packets to increase understanding of the cultural > forces at play in each author’s work. These activities will > culminate with each author visiting Buffalo to directly engage local > audiences in an open dialogue centered on their work. They will > read excerpts, discuss their ideas and inspiration, sign books, > answer audience questions, and attend a reception. > > Each event will be preceded by a month’s worth of cultural > activities related to the culture of the author, including: book > discussions, topic panels, cooking demonstrations and food tastings, > musical programs, and more. Our signature program, “If All Of > Buffalo Read the Same Book,” will continue through Babel, as we > will choose one book by each author and encourage the entire city to > read it. > > Members of Just Buffalo/CEPA Gallery/Big Orbit Gallery, Hallwalls > and the International Institute of Buffalo can subscribe to this > series at an early bird member discount from now until September 1 > at a special member rate of $60. Book groups (minimum three people) > can also subscribe at a special rate of $60 per person for the whole > season.That’s just $15 per event to see some of the greatest > living authors in the world. Regular subscriptions are $75. If there > are any left, tickets for individual events will go on sale October > 10 for $25 per person per event. > > To subscribe or to find out more about the authors, visit: > http://www.justbuffalo.org/babel. Book group subscriptions by phone > only at > 832-5400. BABEL is made possible by a grant from the John R. Oishei Foundation. Other BABEL funding comes from: The National Endowment for the Arts; The New York State Council on the Arts (NYSCA); Erie County Cultural Funding. BABEL MEDIA SPONSORS: Artvoice, Buffalo Spree, WBFO 88.7 fm. BABEL sponsors and partners: Righteous Babe Records, UB Humanities Institute, The Mansion on Delaware Avenue, Hallwalls, Just Buffalo, & The International Institute of Buffalo. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:54:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: ars poetica update Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ars poetica project continues to notch the belt at: http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/ Poems appeared last week by: Dean Blehert, James Cummins, Chris Murray, and Ernie Wormwood. Poems will appear this week by: Ernie Wormwood, Celia Bland, Angela Carr, Bhanu Kapil, and Peter Boyle. A new poem about poetry every day, by invitation only (but thanks for asking). Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:38:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Elshtain Subject: New Beard of Bees Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beard of Bees Press is pleased to announce the publication of Paul Hoover's _At the Sound_, a chapbook in which Cassandra meets Sam the Sham. http://www.beardofbees.com/hoover.html Yours, Eric E. Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 11:37:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: The Poetry of Impeachment! In-Reply-To: <4015D538-B58D-4D2E-9716-90221397404C@danhubig.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html Well, that's not exactly the title but for those who have the time to watch this ... it's a very interesting discussion about impeaching BOTH Bush & Cheney. The people in the discussion are Bill Moyers, John Nichols (the Nation magazine) and Bruce Fein (Constitutional Lawyer, academic and very conservative - worked for Reagan and is associated with both the Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation) .... and they ALL agree that impeachment would be the proper course of action. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:41:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: he is what he eats Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed This story played in a slew of british newspapers. Does it explain anything? >London, July 16 : There's nothing that US President George W Bush >likes to sink his teeth into at dinner than a cheeseburger pizza. > >The revelation comes from none other than the American president's >chef, who gives an insight into what Mr Bush loves to eat. > >And if you're wondering what a cheeseburger pizza is, well it >consists of a standard cheese and tomato pizza base, with all the >ingredients of a burger as the topping. > >Toppings include ground beef and cheese, ketchup, pickles, gherkins, >fried onions, bacon and tomatoes. > >The pizzas were invented in 2005 by teams on Donald Trump's reality >TV show 'The Apprentice' when they were set the challenge of coming >up with a new flavour. > >Chef Cristeta Comerford also revealed that at lunch, the President >likes to dine on peanut butter and honey on bread, with crisps at an >annual gathering of the cooks who cater to the palates of royals and >world statesmen. > >"For dinner the President loves what we call home-made 'cheeseburger >pizzas' because every ingredient of a cheeseburger is on top of a >margherita pizza," The Sun quoted her, as saying. > >"For lunch he loves cinnamon bread with peanut butter and organic >honey, with home-made potato chips and pickles," she added. > >Pizza giant Domino makes the food in the US, and admits a large one >has 1,600 calories and the highest level of cholesterol. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:53:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Dmitri Prigov, 66; artist and influential poet of the post-Soviet era Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Dmitri Prigov, 66; artist and influential poet of the post-Soviet era From Times Wire Reports July 17, 2007 Dmitri Prigov, 66, an avant-garde artist and poet considered one of the most influential writers of the post-Soviet era, died Monday in a Moscow hospital, the RIA-Novosti news agency said. Prigov had been in intensive care since a heart attack July 7. A prolific poet, Prigov's work has been widely published since the late 1980s, but he was perhaps best known in the West for his live performances, which incorporated visual and musical elements. He and his close friend, Lev Rubenstein, were leaders of the so- called conceptualist school, which arose in unofficial Soviet art in the late 1960s. They were believed to have been the first in Russia to regard performance as an art form. Until he fell ill, Prigov was planning to return to the ideals of his youth and participate in a performance in which he would sit in a wardrobe as it was hauled up 22 flights of stairs at Moscow State University and read poems all the way to the top, the Moscow Times reported. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:18:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: pen In-Reply-To: <20070717.001229.1072.11.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 16, 2007, at 8:45 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > speaking og world's best writers (qualify please) has anyone ever > been > nominted for any kind of pen award Oh sure. Lots of people have. You can Google PEN awards and find the names of winners, if not all the nominations. > GB Under electronic surveillance. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:28:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Who would combine Wilfred Owen and Ron Silliman? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, of course Joe Brainard's Pyjamas would...some new poetry including a poem meditating upon the phenomenon that is RonSil.....and some Zombies get their haiku on...that and more at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 14:44:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Serious News] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000509020700010509020503" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000509020700010509020503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------000509020700010509020503 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="part1_c19.1a714b52.33ce74df_boundary" --part1_c19.1a714b52.33ce74df_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sonja Arsham Kuftinec Associate Professor Director of Undergraduate Studies Theater Arts and Dance University of Minnesota 612-626-9238 ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour --part1_c19.1a714b52.33ce74df_boundary Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1288827387-1184701058=:89406" --0-1288827387-1184701058=:89406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Bill Cottman www.salon1016.org ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: "OPwll@aol.com" To: eg@egbailey.com Cc: billcottman@yahoo.com Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 12:18:28 PM Subject: Fwd: Sekou Lives... + FORWARD In a message dated 7/17/2007 12:39:49 PM Central Standard Time, ADPATE writes: -----Original Message----- From: Louisreyesrivera@aol.com To: Shamalbooks@aol.com Bcc: ADPATE@aol.com Sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 9:23 am Subject: Sekou Lives... + FORWARD Please be advised that, all other rumors to the contrary notwithstanding, esteemed poet Sekou Sundiata is as of this writing (Tuesday morning, July 17, 2007) still fighting the latest battle for his life. Yes, he is in a hospital, he does remain in a coma and on life support, and, yes, he's still in critical condition. But he's still with us and still fighting back! Yesterday, an eeg was performed on him and sometime today or tomorrow a cat scan will be underway. As best as I could gather, on or about Friday, July 6th, Sekou suffered a mild heart attack, and on Sunday, July 8, he was doing well and walking about. Six days later, on the morning of Friday, July 13th, he was released from the hospital and returned home. That night, roughly after 10pm, he was hit again, this time more seriously. He was taken to Brooklyn Hospital and eventually transferred to a hospital in Westchester County, where he remains in relatively stable and critical condition. You may contact me: Louisreyesrivera@aol.com for further updates. Later. Louis. MEANWHILE, please spread the following statement as best as you would: Dear Family, Friends: Minutes ago, I spoke with a representative from Sekou Sundiata's family and the family wishes for me to let you know that, despite what has been circulating on some parts of the Internet, Sekou is "alive and maintaining." While it is true that Sekou is very ill, he has NOT made his transition. He is alive. The family asks that your prayers and thoughts be toward his health and speedy recovery. Please stay tuned for updates from the family via "Put On BLAST!" Feel free to forward this message in an effort to cancel any rumors you may have received. Prayerfully, April Silver AKILA WORKSONGS, Inc. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. -----Original Message----- From: Louisreyesrivera@aol.com To: Shamalbooks@aol.com Bcc: ADPATE@aol.com Sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 9:23 am Subject: Sekou Lives... + FORWARD Please be advised that, all other rumors to the contrary notwithstanding, esteemed poet Sekou Sundiata is as of this writing (Tuesday morning, July 17, 2007) still fighting the latest battle for his life. Yes, he is in a hospital, he does remain in a coma and on life support, and, yes, he's still in critical condition. But he's still with us and still fighting back! Yesterday, an eeg was performed on him and sometime today or tomorrow a cat scan will be underway. As best as I could gather, on or about Friday, July 6th, Sekou suffered a mild heart attack, and on Sunday, July 8, he was doing well and walking about. Six days later, on the morning of Friday, July 13th, he was released from the hospital and returned home. That night, roughly after 10pm, he was hit again, this time more seriously. He was taken to Brooklyn Hospital and eventually transferred to a hospital in Westchester County, where he remains in relatively stable and critical condition. You may contact me: Louisreyesrivera@aol.com for further updates. Later. Louis. MEANWHILE, please spread the following statement as best as you would: Dear Family, Friends: Minutes ago, I spoke with a representative from Sekou Sundiata's family and the family wishes for me to let you know that, despite what has been circulating on some parts of the Internet, Sekou is "alive and maintaining." While it is true that Sekou is very ill, he has NOT made his transition. He is alive. The family asks that your prayers and thoughts be toward his health and speedy recovery. Please stay tuned for updates from the family via "Put On BLAST!" Feel free to forward this message in an effort to cancel any rumors you may have received. Prayerfully, April Silver AKILA WORKSONGS, Inc. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ____________________________________________________________________________________ 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news --0-1288827387-1184701058=:89406 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8C996B09B97ECDF_116C_A737_webmail-da06.sysops.aol.com" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" -----Original Message----- From: Louisreyesrivera@aol.com To: Shamalbooks@aol.com Bcc: ADPATE@aol.com Sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 9:23 am Subject: Sekou Lives... + FORWARD ? Please be advised that, all other rumors to the contrary notwithstanding, esteemed poet Sekou Sundiata is as of this writing (Tuesday morning, July 17, 2007)?still fighting the latest battle for his life. Yes, he is in a hospital, he does remain in a coma and on life support, and, yes, he's still in critical condition. But he's still with us and still fighting back! ? Yesterday, an eeg was performed on him and sometime today or tomorrow a cat scan will be underway. ? As best as I could gather, on or about Friday, July 6th, Sekou suffered a mild heart attack, and on Sunday, July 8, he was doing well and walking about. Six days later, on the morning of Friday, July 13th, he was released from the hospital and returned home. That night, roughly after 10pm, he was hit again, this time?more seriously. He was taken to Brooklyn Hospital and eventually transferred to a hospital in Westchester County, where he remains in relatively stable and critical condition. ? You may contact me: Louisreyesrivera@aol.com for further updates. ? Later. Louis. ? ? MEANWHILE, please spread the following statement as best as you would:? ? ? Dear Family, Friends: ? Minutes ago, I spoke with a representative from Sekou Sundiata's family and the family wishes for me to let you know that, despite what has been circulating on some parts of the Internet, Sekou is "alive and maintaining." While it is true that Sekou is very ill, he has NOT made his transition. He is alive. The family asks that your prayers and thoughts be toward his health and speedy recovery. Please stay tuned for updates from the family via "Put On BLAST!" Feel free to forward this message in an effort to cancel any rumors you may have received. Prayerfully, April Silver AKILA WORKSONGS, Inc. Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. --0-1288827387-1184701058=:89406-- --part1_c19.1a714b52.33ce74df_boundary-- --------------000509020700010509020503-- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:06:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: does anyone know is Randall Potts alive and well? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ....does anyone know if Randall Potts is alive and well...he's a poet who had a book out through O Books a few years back and published in mags like Five Fingers Review. I saw an obit for a Randall Potts in Philly area I think it was dated June, 2007. Potts was in Frisco at the time of the publications I am speaking of....no malediction on a namesake but hope it wasn't he... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:13:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: pen In-Reply-To: <478c864be7ee64f6d7c84ff8d8c2a604@sfu.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed The ex-drummer of my group, Joel Zabor (now Rafi Zabor) won the Pen Faulkner award for best novel, The Bear Comes Home, a few year back - - Alan On Tue, 17 Jul 2007, George Bowering wrote: > On Jul 16, 2007, at 8:45 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > >> speaking og world's best writers (qualify please) has anyone ever been >> nominted for any kind of pen award > > Oh sure. Lots of people have. You can Google PEN awards and find the > names of winners, if not all the nominations. > > >> > GB > Under electronic surveillance. > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 13:48:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Three events In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 15, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Kevin Killian wrote: > Hi there, I want to let you all know that my impressions of Art Basel > 38 are on line now at FANZINE, > > www.thefanzine.com > > It's called "Diary of a Nobody," and it's quite long so give yourself > a little time. > > Thanks, Kevin-- It IS long, but it is fun, too. And isn't Basel a cute town? I know mainly the part that isn't hilly, the other side of the Rhine. George H. Bowering Wishes your happiness. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:16:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Sad news In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit very sad to hear it--my students loved to hear him, so did I. On 7/15/07 8:29 PM, "Diane DiPrima" wrote: > This came to me from another poet. > > Passing it on in the hope/belief that all good wishes beneficent thoughts > are effective on some level. > > I performed with him once & remember his strong energy & good heart. > > > > Thanks, Diane di Prima > ------------------------------ > > Forwarded message: > > > just sending out the word. Lamont Steptoe just called me and asked me to > pass on the word. It seems Sekou Sundiata had a heart attack yesterday and > is in critical condition. Let's keep this strong spirited poet in our > thoughts, meditations, and prayers. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:43:20 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Talking with A.I. A.L.I.C.E. about Degas, Bisexuality and Dinosaurs.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Brainard's Pyjamas is in conversation with A.I. A.L.I.C.E. about Degas, bisexuality, poetry, dinosaurs and other sundry topics....turns out she has a Ph.d. from one of our finer universities....who knew? Sound the artificial depths at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:06:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC/Exhibit at Boog City's 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward -------------------- Exhibit at Boog City?s 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair (with Indie Records and Crafts, too) Sat. Aug. 4, 11:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. at day 3 of Welcome to Boog City poetry and music festival (complete fest info below) Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) NYC $20 for a table email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG (2664) Featuring 15 on the 15?s, a 15-minute musical performance each hour on the 15?s by: Robert Kerr at 11:15 a.m. 12:15 p.m. 1:15 p.m. Sean T. Hanratty at 2:15 p.m. 3:15 p.m. 4:15 p.m. Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He =20 wrote thebook and lyrics for the short musical "The Sticky-Fingered =20 Fiancee" and the songs for his plays "Kingdom Gone" and "Meet Uncle =20 Casper" as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations "Bearskin" and "The =20 Juniper Tree." He was also a founding member of the Minneapolis band =20 Alien Detector. Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your =20 shower, by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly =20 enchanting songs in the shower, of course... http://myspace.com/seanthanratty ------------------ *Welcome to Boog City 4 Days of Poetry and Music Thurs. Aug. 2/ ACA Galleries Fri. Aug. 3/ Sidewalk Cafe Sat. Aug. 4/ Cakeshop Sun. Aug. 5/ Bowery Poetry Club with readings from: David Baratier Sean Cole John Coletti Tom Devaney Greg Fuchs Joanna Fuhrman Tony Gloeggler Nada Gordon Mitch Highfill Brenda Iijima Eliot Katz Amy King Mark Lamoureux Kimberly Lyons Gillian McCain Simon Perchik Wanda Phipps Kristin Prevallet Lauren Russell Nathaniel Siegel Rachel M. Simon Christina Strong Gary Sullivan Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater Ian Wilder Daniel Zimmerman and more and music from: Dr. Benstock The Drew Gardner Flash Orchestra I Feel Tractor The Leader Rachel Lipson Nan & the Charley Horses The Passenger Pigeons (formerly The Sparrows) and more and The Fugs album, The Village Fugs, performed by Paul Cama, Steve Espinola, I Feel Tractor, JUANBURGUESA, and Scott MX Turner Sat. 8/4 at Cakeshop Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum For more info: 212-842-BOOG (2664) * editor@boogcity.com -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:18:35 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jacob Edmond Subject: Dmitry Prigov dies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable St. Petersburg Times=20 =A0=20 =A0Issue #1289 (55), Tuesday, July 17, 2007=20 =A0=20 Poet Prigov Dies=20 MOSCOW (AP) =97 Dmitry Prigov, one of the most influential poets of the post-Soviet era, died early Monday in a Moscow hospital, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported. He was 66. Prigov had been in intensive care since suffering a heart attack July 7. = He and his close friend Lev Rubenstein were leaders of the so-called conceptualist school, which arose in unofficial Soviet art in the late 1960s. They were the first in Russia to see performance as a form of = art. ________________________ Dr Jacob Edmond Senior Lecturer Department of English University of Otago=20 PO Box 56, Dunedin 9054, New Zealand=20 Office and street address: 1S3, 1st Floor, Arts Building, Albany St, = Dunedin 9016, New Zealand Phone: +64 3 479 7969 Fax: +64 3 479 8558 jacob.edmond@otago.ac.nz http://www.otago.ac.nz/english/staff/edmond.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:19:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: newpoemsnow Subject: query for history of publishing (and service learning) resources MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi folks, I am creating a section for our Multicultural America course at the university that takes a comparative look at the experience of individuals from multiple ethnic and other diverse groups in the US attempting to publish their literary work. The course includes a service learning component. If you know of resources that I should be aware of, such as political analyses of publishing history, or have suggestions for service learning opportunities (you may even know of an organization that could provide an online service learning experience?), please let me know. Thank you very much, Peter Blewett --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:08:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: A SALE A SALE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Friends, As a lot of you know, all the artists and arts organizations at the Steinfeld Warehouse have to move out by July 31. We are having a sale to help with our futures. This is not a "yard sale" or "moving sale" as you might normally think of it. Rather, it is an art sale & poetry/fine art book sale, with some definite bargains to be found, but also with a sense that we need you to come and buy works to help us with expenses we are encountering -- generally, the spaces to which we are moving are two or three times more expensive than the marvelous Steinfeld Warehouse studios. So, if you'd like to find great paintings by Cynthia Miller, Betina Fink, Elizabeth Criger, Laura LaFave, and Mary Theresa Dietz, amazing handcrafted furniture by Brian Kelly, Robert Robles & others at the Alamo Woodworks, photography by Joseph Labate, and books from Chax Press, please come! As to the poetry and fine art books by Chax Press, you will encounter savings of more than $200 on at least one handmade book, and of $100 on another, as well as a lot of $11 to $16 books on sale for $10, and a few $8 books on sale for $5. Bargaining is encouraged on purchases of 5 books or more. Come to buy! and pass the word on to serious art & poetry & book buyers! THURSDAY JULY 19 from 4:30 to 6:30pm SUNDAY JULY 22 from 3 to 5pm 101 W. 6th St. (west of Stone, east of Granada, at corner of 9th Ave., with sale at 9th Ave. entry) Thank you, Charles Alexander charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 101 W. Sixth St. Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:09:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: literary blogs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've recently posted a couple of blogs on literary topics that may be of interest. same blogs at two places...take your pick www.myspace.com/charlierossiter and www.charlierossiter.blogspot.com continue enjoying the summer Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 00:33:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schuchat Simon Subject: Re: Dimitry Prigov RIP In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Prigov was a monumental poet, also a fine graphic artist, whose writings before and after the end of the Soviet Union were equally wonderful. I translated his long list poem "During me" (Pri mne) in Skanky Possum several years back -- I would recommend that as a somewhat different side from the writings Philip provides below. I heard Prigov read back when I lived in Moscow (it was probably 2001), a work with musical (taped) accompaniment about "the Englishwoman and the Russian revolution," a spectacular performance. another loss. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 06:34:27 -0400 From: Philip Metres Subject: Dmitry Prigov, RIP I posted this on my blog today, in memory of Prigov: Eugene Ostashevsky sent me an email yesterday with news of the passing of a great poet, artist, and cultural laborer, Dmitry Prigov. One of the great innovators and tireless experimenters of his generation, Prigov's massive poetic and artistic output (he once promised to write 25,000 poems) has yet to receive full acknowledgement or readership in the United States. As far as I know, the only full-length collection of his poems to appear in English has been Fifty Drops of Blood, translated by Cris Mattison and published by Ugly Duckling Presse. In honor of his life and work, I'm posting a few Prigov poems I translated a few years back. Tomorrow, I'll post an interview of Prigov that I did in 1996, versions of which appeared in COMBO. He was electrifyingly intelligent, hilariously gesticulating, and humanely generous to me, a young American stuttering his Russian and misunderstanding the scope of his project. Some Prigov poems: 1. In Japan I would be Catullus And in Rome I would be Hokusai And in Russia I am the same guy Who would have been Catallus in Japan And in Rome, Hokusai. 2. The plumber goes into the winter yard He looks: and the yard is already spring. It's the same way as with him now-- He was a schoolboy, and now he's a plumber. And the farther the more--farther is death, And before that ripe old age And before that, and before that, And before that--as is now, a plumber. 3. In the cafe of the house of Literators Poliseman drinks beer Drinks in his usual manner, Not even seeing the literary workers But they all look at him. Around him it is light and empty And all of their different arts In his presence don't mean anything He represents life, Appearing in the form of Duty. Life is short, but Art is long. And in the battle Life wins 4. Here is the Poliseman standing in place Watching everything, remembering Everything around and here is his pride The ambulance dressed all in white flies up to him Raises a fan of spring splashes Hands entwined they're walking together The heavens above them melt The ground disappears in this place. 5. It's not important the recorded milk production Cannot be compared to the real milk production Everything that's recorded is recorded in the heavens And if it will come to be not in two or three days Nevertheless it's really important when it will And in some high sense it's already come true And in some low sense everything will be forgotten And it's nearly been forgotten already Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:54:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Dmitry Prigov (and perhaps Araki Yasusada) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Many deep thanks to Igor Satanovsky for his excellent piece re Dmitry Prigov, included in this post-- Dmitry Prigov was also interested in and created many hyperauthorships--among them, as hypothetically posited by Mikhail Epstein, being that of Araki Yasusada. On 7/17/07, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > A further "appearance" of Dmitry Prigov's that is very interesting and > appropriately "strange" is that in his "Commentary and Hypotheses" which = is > one of the appendices that appears in Doubled Flowering From the Noteboo= ks > of Araki Yasusada--Mikhail Epstein posits two Russian writers as possibl= e > candidates for the "real" authorship of the Yasusada writings. One of th= e > writers--"Hypothesis #2"--is Dmitry Prigov. (The other is Andrei Bitov.) > Prigov's work, accompanied by a manifesto, Epstein points out, is include= d > in the anthology Third Wave : The New Russian Poetry edited by Kent John= son > (the American poet most often pointed to as the "real author" of the > Yasusada) and Stephen M. Ashby. Epstein offers evidence of both Prigov a= nd > Bitov--close acquaintances according to Epstein----having the opportunity > and known proposed writings which never were published--of presenting the= ir > respective manuscripts to Johnson while in Russia, and their finding thei= r > way to publication not in Russian, but as English translations, purportin= g > to be translations from the Japanese. > > ------------------------------ > To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com > From: editor@pavementsaw.org > Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:34:10 -0700 > Subject: [spidertangle] Re: Unable to deliver your message > > > Thanks Igor, clear reason to take note-- > > *Igor Satanovsky * wrote: > > Ye, Dmitry Aleksandrovich Prigov was a very interesting figure. Born in > 1940, the same year as J.Brodsky, K.Kuzminsky and R.Kostelanetz, he truly > came to spotlight only in the 80s, being a phenomenally gifted performer = of > his own writing. An artist by education, Prigov has been experimenting wi= th > various traditional and avant-garde poetic/artistic modes since the early > 60s, including visual and typographic poetry (Sackners have some examples= in > their archive). By the late 70's, he settled into very disciplined > conceptual work, which at its core had a performance persona of Prigov as= a > cross between a mad Soviet intellectual and a traditional Russian =ABholy > schizo=BB, *yurodivyi. *In reality, he was probably one of the most > consistently brainy and able thinkers of contemporary Russian culture, > transporting his visual obsessions and artistic strategies into the verba= l > arts. He was too productive for his own good, writing, according to vario= us > estimates, 36000 to 40000 short poems. Russian public never absorbed even > one percent of that, content to hear Prigov perform his most popular poem= s > about President Reagan, and Soviet policeman, =ABmillitsaner=BB, from the= 80's. > Prigov didn't seem to mind, and thought that the public at large was not > ready to absorb his more challenging work anyway. > > Prigov's poetic signiture's always been secondary to his persona, but it'= s > very persistent and recognizable. His poems usually start in a traditiona= l > poetic meter, but veer off to a prosaic final line. They are often > satirical, sharply social and absurdist in nature, contrasting several > social, literary or ideological contexts to a revealing result. One good > example is this poem from _Reagan's Image in the Soviet Literature_ serie= s: > > > Reagan doesn't want to feed us > He makes a serious mistake > It's only over there that they believe > You've got to eat to live > > But we don't need his bread > We'll live on our Idea > It'll come to him quite suddenly: Hey, where are they? - > But we've already settled in his heart. > > > What we have here is a deconstruction of the late Soviet identity as that > of the collapsing revolutionary empire begging its capitalist enemies to > feed it, while shedding the dying revolutionary rethoric (*We'll live on > our Idea*) for the newly appealing eastern-christian- orthodoxy makeup (*= _But > we've already settled in his heart*_). Prigov's one of the first to > notice, but there is more to his work. > > He is another of my favorites, which reveals how the best of Prigov's wor= k > can be subtle, sly and seriously uncanny at the same time. > > > * > When mad Jews > Call Russia their Motherland > And do better than a Russian > Where they are not even invited > And where invited, they do, too > And where they themselves invite -- > She stands in all her beauty > Russia, the Motherland of Jews. > > The line _*And where they themselves invite -*- has a lot to do with > _jewish invitations_ that is, refers to Israel, often called among Russia= ns > the sixteenth Soviet republic. Prigov's work is full of shifting and > transporting identities, that's probably why his it has been so important= to > the post-Soviet cultural scene. > > His later writing often had a much darker tone. He would pick a theme fro= m > the media headlines, say, Sexual Harassment, and develop it into a > book-length poetic cycle, approaching his topic from all imaginable angle= s. > > As a true performance artist, close in some ways to Situationists, Prigov > had an uncanny ability to mimic and blend in any social context, adapting > and compromising discourses left and right. In that sense, he never was a > dissident in the Soviet period. That is, he distrusted any kind of direct > heroic or romantic sentiment, and kept his distance from both the > Traditionalist and the Traditional Russian Avantgard camps, declaring > himself to be a classicist. He was one strange and fascinating classicist= , I > gotta tell you that. > > igor satanovsky, > new york > > ** > mIEKAL aND wrote on 7/17/07, 2:53 PM: > > Prigov, 66; artist and influential poet of the post-Soviet era > From Times Wire Reports > July 17, 2007 > > Dmitri Prigov, 66, an avant-garde artist and poet considered one of > the most influential writers of the post-Soviet era, died Monday in a > Moscow hospital, the RIA-Novosti news agency said. > > Prigov had been in intensive care since a heart attack July 7. > > A prolific poet, Prigov's work has been widely published since the > late 1980s, but he was perhaps best known in the West for his live > performances, which incorporated visual and musical elements. > > He and his close friend, Lev Rubenstein, were leaders of the so- > called conceptualist school, which arose in unofficial Soviet art in > the late 1960s. They were believed to have been the first in Russia > to regard performance as an art form. > > Until he fell ill, Prigov was planning to return to the ideals of his > youth and participate in a performance in which he would sit in a > wardrobe as it was hauled up 22 flights of stairs at Moscow State > University and read poems all the way to the top, the Moscow Times > reported. > > > > ------------------------------ > Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one > place! Find it! > > __._,_.___ Messages in this topic > ( > 0) Reply (via web post) > = | Start > a new topic > > Messages| > Files| > Photos| > Links| > Database| > Polls| > Members| > Calendar > S P I D E R T A N G L E Projects listed at: > http://www.spidertangle.net > [image: Yahoo! Groups] > Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID requ= ired) > Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch > format to Traditional > Visit Your Group > | Yahoo! > Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe > > Recent Activity > > - 1 > New Members > > Visit Your Group > > SPONSORED LINKS > > - Creative writing > - Creative writing course > - Creative writing class > > Yahoo! TV > > Staying in tonight? > > Check listings to > > see what is on. > Yahoo! Groups > > Moderator Central > > Connecting a world > > of moderators > Official Samsung > > Yahoo! Group for > > supporting your > > HDTVs and devices. > . > > __,_._,___ > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:40:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: new on rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed First of all, Elisa, Irwin and I are laboring hard over the second issue of absent. It really, truly, is coming out soon. Look for a last-minute intervention by Kent Johnson! Secondly, I am in New York until the 23rd; I would love to make contact with any poets in the area (I hear there are a few) who want to knock back a few beers or, alternatively, alert me to good readings (I seem to have come when a few series have taken Summer hiatus.) Please backchannel. Thirdly, I am struggling to pull together enough resarch to go on the job market in October, but did find the time today to post a new essay to rhubarb is susan -- the defeasible pause: http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/07/defeasible-pause.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ All the best, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:35:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: pen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit right i know rafi On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:13:14 -0400 Alan Sondheim writes: > The ex-drummer of my group, Joel Zabor (now Rafi Zabor) won the Pen > Faulkner award for best novel, The Bear Comes Home, a few year back > - > > - Alan > > > On Tue, 17 Jul 2007, George Bowering wrote: > > > On Jul 16, 2007, at 8:45 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > >> speaking og world's best writers (qualify please) has anyone > ever been > >> nominted for any kind of pen award > > > > Oh sure. Lots of people have. You can Google PEN awards and find > the > > names of winners, if not all the nominations. > > > > > >> > > GB > > Under electronic surveillance. > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel > 718-813-3285. > Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: > sondheim@panix.com. > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also > check > WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, > performance, > dvds, etc. > ============================================================= > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:31:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: pen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i mean on this list On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:18:47 -0700 George Bowering writes: > On Jul 16, 2007, at 8:45 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > speaking og world's best writers (qualify please) has anyone > ever > > been > > nominted for any kind of pen award > > Oh sure. Lots of people have. You can Google PEN awards and find > the > names of winners, if not all the nominations. > > > > > GB > Under electronic surveillance. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:14:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Next, next Friday in Brooklyn ---> In-Reply-To: <8C992A7D52696C1-1BFC-A924@FWM-D11.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias presents [http://www.mipoesias.com] ~~ RICHARD PEABODY ~ NICOLE STEINBERG ~ CATE PEEBLES ~~ Friday, July 27, 2007 @ 7:00 PM ~~~ Richard Peabody, a prolific poet, fiction writer and editor, is an experienced teacher and important activist in the Washington , D.C. community of letters. He is the founder and co-editor of Gargoyle magazine and editor (or co-editor) of fourteen anthologies including Mondo Barbie, Mondo Elvis, Conversations with Gore Vidal, A Different Beat: Writings by Women of the Beat Generation, Alice Redux, Sex & Chocolate, Grace and Gravity: Fiction by Washington Area Women and Enhanced Gravity: More Fiction by Washington Area Women. He is the author of the novella Sugar Mountain, two short story collections, and six poetry collections. He is currently working on Electric Grace: Still More Fiction by Washington Area Women (forthcoming 2007). Peabody teaches at The Writer's Center and at Johns Hopkins University, where he has been presented the Faculty Award for Distinguished Professional Achievement. He lives and works in the Washington, D.C. area. You can find out more at: www.wikipedia.org and www.gargoylemagazine.com. Nicole Steinberg is the Co-Editor of LIT and Associate Editor of BOMB Magazine. Her poetry has appeared or is forthcoming in Gulf Coast, McSweeney's Internet Tendency, The Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel—Second Floor, PMS, Lumina, and Half Drunk Muse, and she writes for music webzine Axis of Live. She's the founder, curator and host of EARSHOT, a Brooklyn-based reading series dedicated to the work and presence of emerging writers in the New York City area. She lives in Queens, New York. Cate Peebles was born in Pittsburgh and currently lives in Brooklyn. She is a graduate of Reed College and is currently enrolled in the MFA program at the New School. She works as an editorial assistant on an oral biography of George Plimpton that will be published by Random House in 2008. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King MiPO Host http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** wrote:","On 6/29/07, \u003cb class\u003dgmail_sendername\>Janet Holmes\u003c/b\> wrote:","googlegroups.com",,,"\u003cpussipo.googlegroups.com\>","",0,"pussipo@googlegroups.com","\u003c38a93cff0706291955w4556859s521d4bb960da3634@mail.gmail.com\>",0,,0,"In reply to \"Tonight in Brooklyn\"",0] ); D(["mb","Say hi to Ethan for me!",1] ); //--> --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 13:26:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: MiPO Films In-Reply-To: <583205.52923.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://mipovideo.blogspot.com/2007/07/stacy-szymaszek-and-ethan-paquin.html#links Description: Stacy Szymaszek and Ethan Paquin MiPOesias Reading @ Stain Bar Williamsburg, Brooklyn June 28, 2007 ETHAN PAQUIN is author of My Thieves (Salt, 2007), The Violence (Ahsahta Press, 2005), Accumulus (Salt, 2003) and The Makeshift (UK: Stride, 2002). He lives and teaches in Buffalo, NY, and returns to seacoast New Hampshire every summer. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/paquin_ethan.html Stacy Szymaszek is the author of Emptied of All Ships (Litmus Press, 2005) as well as several chapbooks. After working at Woodland Pattern Book Center in Milwaukee, WI for many years she moved to New York to be the Program Coordinator at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church. This year she is also the Monday Night Reading curator. She edited Gam: A Survey of Great Lakes Writing which lived for 4 issues, and now works as co-editor or contributing editor on various projects including Instance Press and Fascicle. Her current work in process is called "hyper glossia," parts of which can be found on the internet, in a Belladonna* chap book and forthcoming from Hot Whiskey Press. http://www.mipoesias.com/Poetry/szymaszek_stacey.html --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:09:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Vetock Redux, "As With Mantis," and a Brief "Review" of Black Snake Moan on JBP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aestival not hibernal blasts from the past and present race down Joe Brainard's Pyjamas' slopes like a chinook...and Christina Ricci puts on her hootchie momma cut-offs just for you...the language is tramping it up at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:11:00 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Sekou Sundiata In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just heard that Sekou Sundiata passed away this morning... Very sad news. He was an amazing poet and performer. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:14:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Murphy Subject: be sure to check out humor in poetry at jacket 33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Worth the read, including work and conversation among the fine cast of cont= ributors.=0A=0ASheila Murphy ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:32:53 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Sekou Sundiata In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit forwarded -- From: Cathy Zimmerman [ mailto:cathy@multiartsprojects.com ] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:46 PM Dear Friends and Colleagues, It is with deep sadness and the heaviest of hearts that we inform you that Sekou Sundiata, the eloquent and much loved poet, performer, artist activist and educator, passed away this morning July 18, 2007 at 5:47am at the age of 58 due to heart failure. Sekou Sundiata fell ill earlier this month as he was preparing for the European premiere of his latest epic music/theater piece, the 51st dream state, at the Stimmen Festival in Germany. In early June he performed, blessing the boats, at the Spoleto Festival in S.C. and delivered a keynote presentation at the 13th Annual Pedagogy and Theatre of the Oppressed International Conference in Minneapolis. He leaves behind a full schedule of performances, community residencies and keynote speeches. Mr. Sundiata's untimely passing is a profound loss not only to his family and innumerable friends, colleagues and students but also to all of the individuals and communities whom he touched and changed through his performances, music, writings, public talks, interviews and conversations. Mr. Sundiata is survived by his wife, Maurine (Kazi) Knighton, daughter Myisha Gomez, stepdaughter Aida Riddle, grandson Amman and his mother Virginia Myrtle Feaster, two brothers William and Ronald and lots of nieces, nephews, aunts and uncles. Cards can be sent to Maurine at 296 Stuyvesant Avenue, Brooklyn, New York 11221. Donations in memory of Sekou may be made to the National Kidney Foundation at 30 E. 33rd Street, Suite 1100, New York NY 10016. Details regarding funeral arrangements will be forthcoming. We have attached here some additional information about Sekou Sundiata and his work. Please feel free to contact us for further information. In the words of Sekou, All of a sudden., Cathy, Ann, Jordana, Milka and Emily MAPP International Productions Tel: 646-602-9390 excerpt from the 51st (dream) state by Sekou Sundiata: What if we were Life Or Liberty Or the Pursuit of something new? Between the rocks below and the stars above What if we were composed by Love? And what if we could show that what we dream is deeper than what we know? Suppose if something does not live in the world that we long to see then we make it ourselves as we want it to be What if we are Life Or Liberty and the Pursuit of something new? And suppose the beautiful answer asks the more beautiful question, Why don't we get our hopes up too high? What don't we get our hopes up to high? High! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:19:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Sekou Sundiata Comments: To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to hear that. We were colleagues for a while at the New School. My wife and he were colleagues for years. Here's a sample: http://www.salon.com/audio/2000/10/05/sundiata/ Hal "I can't understand it. I can't even understand the people who can understand it." --Queen Juliana of the Netherlands Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 18, 2007, at 5:11 PM, Daniel Godston wrote: > I just heard that Sekou Sundiata passed away this morning... Very > sad news. > He was an amazing poet and performer. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:26:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: be sure to check out humor in poetry at jacket 33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sad news just informed that sekuo sendiata passed away this morning On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:14:05 -0700 Sheila Murphy writes: > Worth the read, including work and conversation among the fine cast > of contributors. > > Sheila Murphy > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:22:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Our Wonderful Picture of the Month! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Our Wonderful Picture of the Month! What happens when the image of a text becomes the archaeology of the text itself? Let's find out in this wonderful image by Alan Sondheim. He says: "I took this with a Canon 630 set on flash and automatic. The image is a shelf in my local bookstore, full of works connected with "theory" and other intellectual pursuits. But everyone knows that books like knowledge, decay, and I thought, how can I hasten the process? I experimented with many filters and pencil bandwidths, finally settling on an ideal transfor- mation, in which a few of the titles like Doubt are just barely visible. I hope to continue in this vein; the best thing about digital photography is that no one needs to shoot your failures, and there are so many successes! I'd advise anyone to just keep their eyes open, to shoot what they know, and to shoot as many images as possible. You'll find that one golden one in the mountain of dross, but it's always worth waiting for. And with digital, you can just shoot and shoot and shoot! It costs almost nothing to make mistakes, but takes a great deal of editing and creative energy to find that one perfect image, the one that dreams are made of." We are sure that Alan will continue to make these "perfect images," and we will all enjoy them. This is a far cry from our Sunset Composition we began with, just a few months ago! http://www.asondheim.org/thelatest.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 05:07:41 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: "Darwish blasts Palestinian factions" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Darwish blasts Palestinian factions http://archive.gulfnews.com/region/Middle_East/10140108.html 07/18/2007 07:08 PM | Agencies Gaza City, Gaza Strip: The world's most recognized Palestinian poet, Mahmoud Darwish, delivered a stinging tirade against rival Palestinian factions on Sunday in his first public appearance in decades in the Israeli city of Haifa. The reading by Darwish, known as the "Palestinian national poet," came a month after deadly battles between rival Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas last month in the Gaza Strip, claiming dozens of casualties. The factions subsequently formed separate regimes. One is run by militant Islamic Hamas in Gaza, while the moderate Fatah formed a government in the West Bank. Darwish, 66, who was born in a village near Haifa, described the Gaza infighting as a "a public attempt at suicide in the streets." He spoke to a packed auditorium in the Israeli port city. The recital was also broadcast live over Arab satellite television. "We became independent," Darwish said mockingly. "Gaza became independent of the West Bank, and for one people, two countries, two prisons." Darwish said bitterly the two governments made the possibility of creating a Palestinian state "one of the seven wonders of the world." Darwish also directed barbs at Israel, blaming the Jewish state for not taking advantage of a historical chance at peace. It was Darwish's first poetry reading in Haifa since he left the port city in 1970 to study in the former Soviet Union. While Haifa is city known for its coexistence among Jews and Arabs, it was a flourishing, mostly Palestinian, town before Israel won the 1948 war that followed its creation. Most of its original residents fled or were forced out in 1948, and the town, nicknamed "the Bride of the Sea," looms large in Palestinian literature. Since 1970, Darwish only briefly returned for personal engagements. He joined the Palestinian Liberation Organization, living in different Arab countries. He resigned from the PLO in 1993 in protest over the interim peace accords that the late Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, signed with Israel. Darwish moved to the West Bank city of Ramallah in 1996. His poetry has been translated into more than 20 languages, and he has won many international prizes for his work. _________________________________________________________________ Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:25:35 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: New projects by TINFISH PRESS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NEW AT TINFISH PRESS I. ABOUT LOOKING initiates a new component to Tinfish, featuring writings on art. The first installment is by Jaimey Hamilton on DRAWING TO REMEMBER, a project by Dana Forsberg. Forsberg's work is also featured at this site: drawings of the artist and some of her friends by a police sketch artist. As Hamilton writes of the project: “Each portrait is more than simply a translation from memory, but a result of the frustrating experience of trying to translate a mental and seemingly more 'private' image into a more 'public' one. This comes across in viewing the series as well. We are left with the 'evidence' of each describer’s unique perception and are drawn into comparing one portrait to the next as we move down the row, experiencing the portraits as if they were a police line-up, looking for the tell-tale differences in each version of the subject.” Hamilton's research concerns the intersection of contemporary subjectivity, commodity culture, mass media, and the visual arts in a global context. Hamilton is an Assistant Professor at the University of Hawai'i at Manoa - Department of Art and Art History. http://tinfishpress.com/art.html II. Tinfish is also launching two chapbooks this week. One is by Sarith Peou, a survivor of the Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia in the 1970s and currently an inmate at Stillwater Prison in Minnesota. Designed by Lian Litvin, using archival materials from the Cambodia Documentation Center. CORPSE WATCHING: http://tinfishpress.com/hot_off_the_press.html The second book is by a prominent contemporary Korean poet, Hwang Jiwoo, and translated by the late Scott Swaner and Young-Jun Lee. Designed by Gaye Chan. SOMEDAY I'LL BE SITTING IN A DINGY BAR: http://tinfishpress.com/hot_off_the_press.html You can purchase books through our website with a credit card or from Small Press Distribution. Or you can send us checks: Tinfish Press, 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9, Kane`ohe, HI 96744. In Honolulu, Tinfish publications are available at the UH Bookstore and Native Books. Aloha, Susan M. Schultz Editor, Tinfish Press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:34:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Sekou Sundiata MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit forwarded -- From: Cathy Zimmerman [ mailto:cathy@multiartsprojects.com ] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:46 PM Dear Friends and Colleagues, It is with deep sadness and the heaviest of hearts that we inform you that Sekou Sundiata, the eloquent and much loved poet, performer, artist activist and educator, passed away this morning July 18, 2007 at 5:47am at the age of 58 due to heart failure. Sekou Sundiata fell ill earlier this month as he was preparing for the European premiere of his latest epic music/theater piece, the 51st dream state, at the Stimmen Festival in Germany. In early June he performed, blessing the boats, at the Spoleto Festival in S.C. and delivered a keynote presentation at the 13th Annual Pedagogy and Theatre of the Oppressed International Conference in Minneapolis. He leaves behind a full schedule of performances, community residencies and keynote speeches. Mr. Sundiata's untimely passing is a profound loss not only to his family and innumerable friends, colleagues and students but also to all of the individuals and communities whom he touched and changed through his performances, music, writings, public talks, interviews and conversations. Mr. Sundiata is survived by his wife, Maurine (Kazi) Knighton, daughter Myisha Gomez, stepdaughter Aida Riddle, grandson Amman and his mother Virginia Myrtle Feaster, two brothers William and Ronald and lots of nieces, nephews, aunts and uncles. Cards can be sent to Maurine at 296 Stuyvesant Avenue, Brooklyn, New York 11221. Donations in memory of Sekou may be made to the National Kidney Foundation at 30 E. 33rd Street, Suite 1100, New York NY 10016. Details regarding funeral arrangements will be forthcoming. We have attached here some additional information about Sekou Sundiata and his work. Please feel free to contact us for further information. In the words of Sekou, All of a sudden., Cathy, Ann, Jordana, Milka and Emily MAPP International Productions Tel: 646-602-9390 excerpt from the 51st (dream) state by Sekou Sundiata: What if we were Life Or Liberty Or the Pursuit of something new? Between the rocks below and the stars above What if we were composed by Love? And what if we could show that what we dream is deeper than what we know? Suppose if something does not live in the world that we long to see then we make it ourselves as we want it to be What if we are Life Or Liberty and the Pursuit of something new? And suppose the beautiful answer asks the more beautiful question, Why don't we get our hopes up too high? What don't we get our hopes up to high? High! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 07:46:30 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: blacksox@ATT.NET Subject: AUSTINS 7-18 -- Tritt & Darkhorse*..Orlando MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit My goal in creating the readings at Austin's Coffee and Film in Winter Park, Florida (near Orlando) was to give all types of poetry a place of expression. I didn't want it to become another coffee house/ open mic. Orlando has a growing poetry community and for central Florida that's a good thing. Adam Byrn Tritt and Donnie Darkhorse were brave enough to be our first features. Brave, because we have had a year of just Open Mic They did not disappoint! (Hey I am looking for more readers backchannel me) Review of Austin's 7/18 Adam and Donnie were just great. two very different styles of expression made me have a great time at my own event. (that's not just blowing smoke either) Thanks Russ Golata CONTACT INFORMATION for Adam and Donnie is listed below The Phoenix and the Dragon now in print Adam Byrn Tritt's latest release is a good indicator of how much talent he has Wonderful book Poclaimation... My second book, The Phoenix and the Dragon: Poems of the Alchemical Transformation, is about to hit the shelves. It follows my first book, Tellstones, and several anthologies and is my first collection through Smithcraft Press. Included in this volume are pieces for which I was awarded the 2006 EPPIE Prize for poetry in an anthology. In addition, it contains several pieces of stunning artwork by Evanne Floyd, whose work also graces the back cover. So please support the arts, writing and, most importantly, Evanne and I, by looking below and ordering your copy. Of course, the absolute easiest way to reserve your edition is to use PayPal or, even better, just send me your email address, how many copies and I’LL have a PayPal link sent to YOU. You can also go to www.adamusatlarge.blogspot.com and order there. And soon, www.adamtritt.com Please forward this to where ever and who ever you can/like/wish or your entire emails list… whichever is larger (smile) . If you would like me to come to your store for workshops and booksignings, please contact me. I'd love to. Thank you, Adam Byrn Tritt Adam Byrn Tritt puts me on the horns of that dilemma between Apollo or Pan. So what makes his poetry good, then? As a poet he consulted not so much with his mortal texts, but with his heart, personal muses, and the Gods. Raymond T. Anderson, Editor, Oestara Publishing [Tritt is] unique, brilliant, wicked-ass funny, and a mensch.... Valerie Turner, Editor Website: http://www.adamusatlarge.blogspot.com Donnie Darkhorse On a National book tour--from Connecticut with his blend of house music and poetry pushed the audiance in a different direction His poetry is as dark as his name all political rants with a musical backdrop his web address www.myspace.com/darkhorse1804 or www.wastelandpress.net A solid night and a nice blend of sounds ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 06:46:01 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: More Prigov: An Interview MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yesterday, I posted my (unpublished) interview on my blog, www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com with Dmitry Prigov, taken in 1996. It illuminates Prigov's project, first and foremost, but it also provides a glimpse into the landscape of Russian poetry, art, and culture from a postmodern perspective. Prigov's postmodernism was not a desiccated version of Western postmodernism; it was entirely his own, and, for this young writer, completely eye-opening and generative. On a political note, one of the prophetic moments in the interview is when he discusses how the new "other," the new enemy for Russia that would replace the "capitalist," will be "the Chechen." He says: "I think that the enemy has shifted to the Muslims--they will now be accused of being the devil." Philip Metres Associate Professor Department of English John Carroll University 20700 N. Park Blvd University Heights, OH 44118 phone: (216) 397-4528 (work) fax: (216) 397-1723 http://www.philipmetres.com http://www.behindthelinespoetry.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:01:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Sekou Sundiata In-Reply-To: <20070719.024229.1824.8.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Death seems everywhere this morning. The wonderful Sekou Sundiata and the superb tenor Jerry Hadley whom I reviewed (my first review, actually) in the opera The Great Gatsby and who thrilled me in his unforgettable performance in Stravinsky's Rake's Progress. At least Sundiata died by natural causes. Hadley shot himself in the head. "steve d. dalachinsky" wrote: forwarded -- From: Cathy Zimmerman [ mailto:cathy@multiartsprojects.com ] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:46 PM Dear Friends and Colleagues, It is with deep sadness and the heaviest of hearts that we inform you that Sekou Sundiata, the eloquent and much loved poet, performer, artist activist and educator, passed away this morning July 18, 2007 at 5:47am at the age of 58 due to heart failure. Sekou Sundiata fell ill earlier this month as he was preparing for the European premiere of his latest epic music/theater piece, the 51st dream state, at the Stimmen Festival in Germany. In early June he performed, blessing the boats, at the Spoleto Festival in S.C. and delivered a keynote presentation at the 13th Annual Pedagogy and Theatre of the Oppressed International Conference in Minneapolis. He leaves behind a full schedule of performances, community residencies and keynote speeches. Mr. Sundiata's untimely passing is a profound loss not only to his family and innumerable friends, colleagues and students but also to all of the individuals and communities whom he touched and changed through his performances, music, writings, public talks, interviews and conversations. Mr. Sundiata is survived by his wife, Maurine (Kazi) Knighton, daughter Myisha Gomez, stepdaughter Aida Riddle, grandson Amman and his mother Virginia Myrtle Feaster, two brothers William and Ronald and lots of nieces, nephews, aunts and uncles. Cards can be sent to Maurine at 296 Stuyvesant Avenue, Brooklyn, New York 11221. Donations in memory of Sekou may be made to the National Kidney Foundation at 30 E. 33rd Street, Suite 1100, New York NY 10016. Details regarding funeral arrangements will be forthcoming. We have attached here some additional information about Sekou Sundiata and his work. Please feel free to contact us for further information. In the words of Sekou, All of a sudden., Cathy, Ann, Jordana, Milka and Emily MAPP International Productions Tel: 646-602-9390 excerpt from the 51st (dream) state by Sekou Sundiata: What if we were Life Or Liberty Or the Pursuit of something new? Between the rocks below and the stars above What if we were composed by Love? And what if we could show that what we dream is deeper than what we know? Suppose if something does not live in the world that we long to see then we make it ourselves as we want it to be What if we are Life Or Liberty and the Pursuit of something new? And suppose the beautiful answer asks the more beautiful question, Why don't we get our hopes up too high? What don't we get our hopes up to high? High! --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:31:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. From: charles alexander Subject: A SALE A SALE Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Repeating message below: I had neglected to say that for this event only, 10% of all sales proceeds will go to Habitat for Humanity! Also, for those who can't be here, this weekend I will post a way for you to participate in the Chax Press part of the sale via mailing a check to buy items. I.e. I'll post a list of books available for $10, books available for $5, handmade fine art books for sale at varying prices ranging from $30 to $1,200. Thank you! Charles Dear Friends, As a lot of you know, all the artists and arts organizations at the Steinfeld Warehouse have to move out by July 31. We are having a sale to help with our futures. This is not a "yard sale" or "moving sale" as you might normally think of it. Rather, it is an art sale & poetry/fine art book sale, with some definite bargains to be found, but also with a sense that we need you to come and buy works to help us with expenses we are encountering -- generally, the spaces to which we are moving are two or three times more expensive than the marvelous Steinfeld Warehouse studios. So, if you'd like to find great paintings by Cynthia Miller, Betina Fink, Elizabeth Criger, Laura LaFave, and Mary Theresa Dietz, amazing handcrafted furniture by Brian Kelly, Robert Robles & others at the Alamo Woodworks, photography by Joseph Labate, and books from Chax Press, please come! As to the poetry and fine art books by Chax Press, you will encounter savings of more than $200 on at least one handmade book, and of $100 on another, as well as a lot of $11 to $16 books on sale for $10, and a few $8 books on sale for $5. Bargaining is encouraged on purchases of 5 books or more. Come to buy! and pass the word on to serious art & poetry & book buyers! THURSDAY JULY 19 from 4:30 to 6:30pm SUNDAY JULY 22 from 3 to 5pm 101 W. 6th St. (west of Stone, east of Granada, at corner of 9th Ave., with sale at 9th Ave. entry) Thank you, Charles Alexander charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then Chax Press 520-620-1626 (studio) 520-275-4330 (cell) chax@theriver.com chax.org 101 W. Sixth St. Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:43:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Images by Prigov, link to reading/lecture, lps, his film star turn--"and "Fortress Laboratory" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline At my blog entry for yesterday "Sembrar la memoria Dmitry Prigov" one may > find some examples of Prigov's visual works--he made tens of thousands so is > but a drop in the oceans--as well the dvd cover for the film he appeared in, > the covers for some lps he collaborated/participated on, some comments on > his relation with hyperauthorships (Chinese and Yasusada among many as noted > in post yesterday & "sowing of memory" as other forms of sowing "leaves of > grass" as well as a video link to a lecture/reading by Prigov from 2002 and > sites for work of Mikhail Epstein and Gerald Janecek. > At the same site as Prigov's reading/lecture are among others ones > by Robert Creeley and A. Dragomoshenko. today's entry has truly terrifying article on the "Fortress Laboratory" and "show room"(Gaza) for the megabusiness of "homeland securities" weapons and equipments, control of populations, State Terrorism, and the attendant Corporate Mercenary armies, Coporate "cleanup/recovery" operations-- etc--as the big "Fashion Show" for these approaches----in relation with art works --from artists in many media around the world and myself--in relation to these at the blog for over a year ongoing--(one of the major Themes has been Walls--sites/sights/cites of these from/with/for/by many different points of view, uses, media--their anti-possibilites and possiblities of finding ways to make cracks in them etc--the many different ways of "writing on the wall"--"writing through the wall"--etc--) "Where life had no value, death had its price." Billions of dollars . . . involved in the "creation and production" of death-- http://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:09:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Stanford Commencement Address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Read and ponder Charlie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:33:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Ellis Subject: New Wieners Book In-Reply-To: <1182B366-61D3-4B06-9BEB-207A80049596@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Has anyone got a line on where Wiener's new Book of Prophesy is available, like address of publisher, email, or whatever? Please b/c me. SE _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:21:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: A-team, b-list, c-SPAN Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear friends- I am trying to build a primer based on American slang abbreviations, popular acronyms, brands, and nicknames, so that I can teach my kids the alphabet in a "relevant" way. I've posted what I have so far on my blog: http://belz.wordpress.com/ You'll see that I have accounted for everything but R and W, and i'm hoping that you (being poets and poet-types) can help me fill in the blanks. I still have questions about Z and H, and there are a couple of other fishy ones. I'm open to all suggestions. I'm trying to come up with the *right* list, as in, the most recognizable. The rule is that each entry should be its letter followed by a single-syllable word, with the stress on the initial letter. I'm open to phonemes (as in "wi-fi" for Y, "Jay-Z" for J) but would prefer single letters ("P-funk" for p). Please help. Thanks- Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:25:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: A-team, b-list, c-SPAN In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit thanks for making me laugh out loud--your poems are fun(NY) & the first one says it all, yet you clearly have more to say. sending kids to yr website--maybe they will have some ideas. Ruth Lepson On 7/19/07 1:21 PM, "Aaron Belz" wrote: > Dear friends- > > I am trying to build a primer based on American slang abbreviations, popular > acronyms, brands, and nicknames, so that I can teach my kids the alphabet in > a "relevant" way. I've posted what I have so far on my blog: > > http://belz.wordpress.com/ > > You'll see that I have accounted for everything but R and W, and i'm hoping > that you (being poets and poet-types) can help me fill in the blanks. I > still have questions about Z and H, and there are a couple of other fishy > ones. I'm open to all suggestions. I'm trying to come up with the *right* > list, as in, the most recognizable. > > The rule is that each entry should be its letter followed by a > single-syllable word, with the stress on the initial letter. I'm open to > phonemes (as in "wi-fi" for Y, "Jay-Z" for J) but would prefer single > letters ("P-funk" for p). > > Please help. Thanks- > > Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:22:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Printers' Ball: July 20th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The 3rd Annual Printers' Ball: July 20, 2007 8pm http://printersball.org Literary organizations of all kinds gather under one roof for a spree of Chicago's reading scene An all-ages celebration with free admission, magazines & more Zhou B. Art Center 1029 West 35th Street Chicago, IL http://www.zbcenter.org Free Parking Red Line to Sox-35th Halsted Bus Featuring: ACM | After Hours | Alarm Magazine | AREA | Bailliwik | Beard of Bees | bleached whale design | Bookslut | Busy Beaver Buttons | The Canary | Chicago Innerview | Chicago Quarterly Review | Chicago Reader | Chicago Review | Chicago Underground Library | Chicagoland Tails Pet Magazine | Columbia Poetry Review | The Common Review | contratiempo | Court Green | Cracked Slab Books | The Danny's Reading Series | d'cypher press | Delicious Design League | The Dollar Store | Em Press | f magazine | featherproof Books | Flameshovel Records | Free Lunch | Front Forty Press | Gnoetry | Green Lantern | The Guild Literary Complex Haymarket Books | Hourglass Books | In These Times | International Socialist Review | The Journal of Artists' Books | Journal of Ordinary Thought | Jack Black's Body | Kedzie Press | Love, Chicago | Literago.org | Lumpen | LVNG | The Machine | MAKE | March Abrazo Press | MilkMag.org | Moonlit | Mule Magazine | Myopic Books & Poetry Series | Newcity | Other Voices | Palabra Pura Series | Poetry | The Poetry Center of Chicago | The Poetry Foundation | Polyphony | Press of the Third Mind | Puddin'head Press | Punk Planet | Quimby's | Reading Under the Influence | Reconstruction Room | Red Rover Series | Rhino | Roctober Magazine | Rose Metal Press | Rubba Ducky | Screwball Press | Select | Seven Ten Bishop | shelter | Shortpants Press | The Skeleton News | Small Happy | Stop Smiling | StoryQuarterly | Switchback | Books | Terry Plumming | Tia Chucha Press | THE2NDHAND | Time Out Chicago | TriQuarterly | Try Less Hard | UR Chicago Magazine | Venus Zine | Virtual Artists Collective | WLUW | The Writers WorkSpace | You Are Beautiful | And others... Live music! Punk Planet presents Magic Lantern, Venus Zine presents Blue Ribbon Glee Club and The 1900s, DJs from WLUW & Flameshovel Records Demonstrations by Gnoetry & Reading Under the Influence FREE all-beef hot dogs of RED HOT CHICAGO. Mustard courtesy of MAKE: A Chicago Literary Magazine. Installation by Chicago Underground Library, HAUNTING MACHINE built & operated by Terry Plumming, comics by Shortpants Press, free featherproof T-shirts to the first one hundred attendees, posters by Delicious Design League, special offer subscriptions & more! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:35:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: EJOYCE Subject: Sun & Moon Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I have written an article on Susan Howe's poem, "Tuning the Sky," which is= going to be included in the How2 eco-feminism issue, and I'm trying to= find out how to get permission to publish images of a few pages of the= poem. This poem is collected in _Europe of Trusts_ published by Sun & Moon= Press. I know that the Sun & Moon Press is no longer in business and the= papers are archived in the Mandeville Collection, but it sounds like I= need permission from Douglas Messerli. Is this true? Does anyone know how= to reach him? Is it sufficient to get Howe's permission? Lisa Joyce Elisabeth Joyce, Ph.D. Associate Professor Department of English and Theatre Arts Edinboro University of Pennsylvania 500 Meadville Street Edinboro, PA 16444 (814)732-2448 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:09:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Sun & Moon Press In-Reply-To: <2007071921353738cfbf828f@webmail1.eup.edinboro.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Contact Doug at Green Integer Books, http://www.greeninteger.com/. Mark At 05:35 PM 7/19/2007, you wrote: >I have written an article on Susan Howe's poem, "Tuning the Sky," >which is going to be included in the How2 eco-feminism issue, and >I'm trying to find out how to get permission to publish images of a >few pages of the poem. This poem is collected in _Europe of Trusts_ >published by Sun & Moon Press. I know that the Sun & Moon Press is >no longer in business and the papers are archived in the Mandeville >Collection, but it sounds like I need permission from Douglas >Messerli. Is this true? Does anyone know how to reach him? Is it >sufficient to get Howe's permission? > >Lisa Joyce > >Elisabeth Joyce, Ph.D. >Associate Professor >Department of English and Theatre Arts >Edinboro University of Pennsylvania >500 Meadville Street >Edinboro, PA 16444 >(814)732-2448 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:46:20 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: New Wieners Book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From www.bootstrapproductions.org . SPD also has it ( www.spdbooks.org ). How about the chapbook Kidnap Notes, apparently put out a few years ago by Pressed Wafer? Gone for good? J. A. Lee Crane's Bill Books ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Ellis" To: Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: New Wieners Book > Has anyone got a line on where Wiener's new Book of Prophesy is available, > like address of publisher, email, or whatever? Please b/c me. > SE > > _________________________________________________________________ > http://liveearth.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 19:04:19 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Pyjamas Find Themselves New England Bound MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Brainard's Pyjamas find a Burning Bush in Portland, Maine, a city which is taking us back to 19th century France beautifully, and uncover evidence that Mother Nature has Soho aspirations...it's all quite visual tonight at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:58:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Re: Sun & Moon Press In-Reply-To: <2007071921353738cfbf828f@webmail1.eup.edinboro.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New Directions reprinted that book, so you might get in touch with them... EJOYCE wrote: > I have written an article on Susan Howe's poem, "Tuning the Sky," which is going to be included in the How2 eco-feminism issue, and I'm trying to find out how to get permission to publish images of a few pages of the poem. This poem is collected in _Europe of Trusts_ published by Sun & Moon Press. I know that the Sun & Moon Press is no longer in business and the papers are archived in the Mandeville Collection, but it sounds like I need permission from Douglas Messerli. Is this true? Does anyone know how to reach him? Is it sufficient to get Howe's permission? > > Lisa Joyce > > Elisabeth Joyce, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Department of English and Theatre Arts > Edinboro University of Pennsylvania > 500 Meadville Street > Edinboro, PA 16444 > (814)732-2448 > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 00:31:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: trouble in paradise? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I've seen numerous postings suggesting we check out people's literary blogs but when i recently sent in a little note suggesting that folks might be interested in checking out my blogs on lit topics I did not see it posted I admit I may have overlooked it but I think it did not get through the big monitor in the sky...if that's what happened well...here it is again... Just in case. . . check out my comments on Camus' "The Fall" and some thoughts on the ancient Chinese mountain recluse poets at EITHER www.myspace.com/charlierossiter or www.charlierossiter.blogspot.com same blog postings in two locations...your choice of where to look in case you are a Murdochophile charlie ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:02:47 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: On the reading in NYC Thursday August 2nd MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit To further elaborate, on Thurs. 8/2 at ACA Galleries, in NYC, 6:00 p.m. Pavement Saw Press from Columbus, Ohio not only will appear but I, David Baratier, will introduce and tell stories about how I chose books by all of the readers such as Simon Perchik who will be the feature, a man who, with Paul Blackburn, created what is currently known as The Poetry Project. I read with him back in 2003, which was his last reading in NYC. I convinced him to evict himself from from his cave and substantially emote which is no small thing for this small press champion who has appeared in every press listed in Dustbooks _THE INTERNATIONAL GUIDE TO SMALL PRESSES AND PUBLISHERS_ last year. His previous reading in NYC was over 25 years ago in the early 1970's. Poets who have passed on, such as Charles Olson, William Bronk, Jackson MacLow, Robert Creeley, David Ignatow, and many others as well as living poets such as James Tate, X. J. Kennedy, Naton Leslie, Donald Baker, Robert Peters and many a more star filled cast have had substantially positive things to say about him. The collection I published, _Hands Collected: The Books of Simon Perchik Poems 1949-1999, which placed his first 17 collections back in print, was nominated for the National Book Award and has went through two editions. His next collection _The Family of Man_, another massive 550 plus page book, will appear from Pavement Saw Press in 2008. I do hope you take the time to come and see this rare event. Tony Gloeggler's first full length book was published by Pavement Saw Press. He is an underdog, a narrative poet who has been important enough to escape attention but go into a second edition on the strength of the word of mouth created by this narrative collection. I would like to say that many accolades brought him to this point but no, only the strength of his poems, and course adoptions, brought him to a second edition of 1000. He has two other chaps out, one won the Pearl poetry prize. Rachel M. Simon's first book _Theory of Orange_ rankled many and recieved negative notice as a "poet of the moment" from POETRY Magazine while receiving highest accolades from Publishers Weekly. Go Figure. This intriguing first collection is well worth the time, if it matters even Dean Young puts it in the top of his list for 2007. Check it out. Daniel Zimmerman's collection _Post Avant_ changed poetry. Even the idea of "Post Avant" stems from this collection which is perhaps why it has become such a staple in the realm of American poetry. With a solid backing, and forward, by Bob Creeley, this is a collection of note that has done well, again, by word of mouth. Preceeded by a collaboration with one of the most important critics of the later 20th century, John (Jack) Clarke, which was then followed by some brilliant process work from various presses and has solidified his improtance. This is his first book after 30+ years in the field. So yes, I will introduce them all and tell a bunch of jokes in the process. Probably a bunch of the rumors that have been handed me, it is tough to say. Boy I love jokes. And fabrications for that matter. In the past, personal experience with Brad Gooch, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity has made the bill but who knows. If you have more poetic threads for me to consider, please backchannel, I would really hate to repeat material. It looks like I will be forced to read some of my own material but my main reading will be the next eve, so do come and see that as well as I will be offering a weak primer to spotlight them'all for this. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:56:42 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Work by Dan Boehl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Work by Dan Boehl Winner of the Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award Paper Trade: ISBN 978-1-886350-69-4 28 pages, $6 431 copies These poems first appeared in: LIT, Poetry East and Redivider. Here is a scintillating sample of our answer to "ultra-talk" poetry: Cube, or 7 Complete Strangers of Widely Varying Personality Characteristics are Involuntarily Placed in an Endless Kafkaesque Maze Containing Deadly Traps Able to take only so much hip-hop and databases, I get some coffee and shoot-the-shit with the co-workers there. Times like this I think about that movie Cube. The best-worst movie I have ever seen, it’s about these people who wake up in a giant cube. Frantically they run around the cube’s identical rooms discovering each other and getting bloodbathed by unforeseen traps set by an unseen boss. It’s a test. If they work together they live. They fall into the regular character types: the soldier, the clown, the babe. Only the autistic guy lives. He actually likes the work of not getting bloodbathed. Tomorrow, I’ll be somebody's boss. But today I can confidently count on myself as someone I would like. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:55:34 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Marriage License by Susan Terris MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Marriage License by Susan Terris Winner of the Pavement Saw Press Chapbook Award Paper Trade: ISBN 978-1-886350-44-1 28 pages, saddle stapled, $6, 434 copies This collection consists of five poems which circumscribe the subject of marriage and infidelity. Susan Terris’ poetry books include Natural Defenses (Marsh Hawk Press), Fire is Favorable to the Dreamer (Arctos Press), Poetic License (Adastra Press), Curved Space (La Jolla Poets Press), and Eye of the Holocaust (Arctos Press). Recent work appears in The Iowa Review, Field, Calyx, The Journal, Colorado Review, Prairie Schooner, Shenandoah, Denver Quarterly, Southern California Anthology, and Ploughshares. With CB Follett, she is co-editor of an annual anthology, RUNES, A Review Of Poetry. Her next book Contrariwise will be published by Time Being Books in 2007. In 2007, she will also have new chapbooks appear from Pavement Saw Press and from Pudding House Publications both winners in chapbook competitions. She is also the winner of a Pushcart Award for a poem published in 2005 in Field. One of these poems first appeared in The Journal. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:12:41 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Sekou Sundiata MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Friends and Colleagues, It is with deep sadness and the heaviest of hearts that we inform you that Sekou Sundiata, the eloquent and much loved poet, performer, artist activist and educator, passed away this morning July 18, 2007 at 5:47am at the age of 58 due to heart failure. Sekou Sundiata fell ill earlier this month as he was preparing for the European premiere of his latest epic music/theater piece, the 51st dream state, at the Stimmen Festival in Germany. In early June he performed, blessing the boats, at the Spoleto Festival in S.C. and delivered a keynote presentation at the 13th Annual Pedagogy and Theatre of the Oppressed International Conference in Minneapolis. He leaves behind a full schedule of performances, community residencies and keynote speeches. Mr. Sundiata's untimely passing is a profound loss not only to his family and innumerable friends, colleagues and students but also to all of the individuals and communities whom he touched and changed through his performances, music, writings, public talks, interviews and conversations. Mr. Sundiata is survived by his wife, Maurine (Kazi) Knighton, daughter Myisha Gomez, stepdaughter Aida Riddle, grandson Amman and his mother Virginia Myrtle Feaster, two brothers William and Ronald and lots of nieces, nephews, aunts and uncles. Cards can be sent to Maurine at 296 Stuyvesant Avenue, Brooklyn, New York 11221. Donations in memory of Sekou may be made to the National Kidney Foundation at 30 E. 33rd Street, Suite 1100, New York NY 10016. Details regarding funeral arrangements will be forthcoming. We have attached here some additional information about Sekou Sundiata and his work. Please feel free to contact us for further information. In the words of Sekou, All of a sudden., Cathy, Ann, Jordana, Milka and Emily MAPP International Productions Tel: 646-602-9390 excerpt from the 51st (dream) state by Sekou Sundiata: What if we were Life Or Liberty Or the Pursuit of something new? Between the rocks below and the stars above What if we were composed by Love? And what if we could show that what we dream is deeper than what we know? Suppose if something does not live in the world that we long to see then we make it ourselves as we want it to be What if we are Life Or Liberty and the Pursuit of something new? And suppose the beautiful answer asks the more beautiful question, Why don't we get our hopes up too high? What don't we get our hopes up to high? High! Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:37:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Howl Sleeping Poser - after Ginsberg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Howl Sleeping Poser - after Ginsberg -- Peter Ciccariello Image - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:28:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: seeking submissions for We mag from Naropa In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Can you use a soundfile--a hiphop group--actually a group that uses hiphop rhythms to play with, has sampled my voice to use as an instrument in one of their pieces. Shd they send it for another issue? All the best, Ruth Lepson On 7/11/07 8:57 PM, "Jim Andrews" wrote: > Below is a call from Chris Funkhouser for submissions to We mag from Naropa. > > ja > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Funkhouser, Chris [mailto:Funkhouser@ADM.NJIT.EDU] >> Sent: July 11, 2007 5:28 PM >> To: Jim Andrews >> Subject: RE: avantgardes >> >> >> hey jim >> I am teaching at Naropa University this week and wanted to let >> you know that I am, along with my students, putting together an >> issue of We magazine for the first time since 1993. The course I >> am teaching is called Creative Cannibalism & Prehistoric Digital >> Poetry (see http://web.njit.edu/~funkhous/2007/naropa) and the >> main issues we are exploring are spatial representation, >> temporal-spatial ideas, appropriative practices, intensive >> graphicism, automation, software, sampling, and digital >> calculation. The course ends on Friday (7/13) and we plan to put >> the magazine together on Friday morning. It is very short notice, >> but Im hoping that you might have something appropriate to >> contribute. The issue will be published online, and we are >> accepting work in all formats (contents will be posted as pdf, >> html, flash, soundfiles, etc.). If you have something we could >> include, please send it! Itd be great to have your work in the >> project send to funkhouser@adm.njit.edu >> & please feel free to pass the word along-- could you post the >> call on webartery, poetics, etc.? >> all's going well i hope >> >> cf > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:14:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: trouble in paradise? -- Checking the archives ... In-Reply-To: <3011.68.23.162.21.1184909516.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Charlie, Your post on July 18th regarding your blog was distributed to the list and can be viewed in the archives here: http://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0707&L=poetics&D=1&O=A&X=1E42C724D81132C963&Y=poetics.list%40gmail.com&P=55098 Additionally, anyone may view the archives and sort by author, date, subject, etc, here: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Cheers, Amy Charlie Rossiter wrote: I've seen numerous postings suggesting we check out people's literary blogs but when i recently sent in a little note suggesting that folks might be interested in checking out my blogs on lit topics I did not see it posted I admit I may have overlooked it but I think it did not get through the big monitor in the sky...if that's what happened well...here it is again... Just in case. . . check out my comments on Camus' "The Fall" and some thoughts on the ancient Chinese mountain recluse poets at EITHER www.myspace.com/charlierossiter or www.charlierossiter.blogspot.com same blog postings in two locations...your choice of where to look in case you are a Murdochophile charlie --------------------------------- No need to miss a message. Get email on-the-go with Yahoo! Mail for Mobile. Get started. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 01:34:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Clay Banes Subject: Re: trouble in paradise? In-Reply-To: <3011.68.23.162.21.1184909516.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline or murdochophobe? hopefully &c., On 7/19/07, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > I've seen numerous postings suggesting we check out people's literary blogs > > but when i recently sent in a little note suggesting that folks might be > interested in checking out my blogs on lit topics I did not see it posted > > I admit I may have overlooked it but I think it did not get through the > big monitor in the sky...if that's what happened well...here it is > again... > > Just in case. . . > > check out my comments on Camus' "The Fall" and some thoughts on the > ancient Chinese mountain recluse poets at EITHER > > www.myspace.com/charlierossiter > > or > > www.charlierossiter.blogspot.com > same blog postings in two locations...your choice of where to look in case > you are a Murdochophile > > charlie > -- EYEBALL HATRED http://claytonbanes.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:36:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC: $10/BYO Table to Exhibit at Boog City's Small Press Fair Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable please forward -------------------- =20 $10/BYO Table to =20 Exhibit at Boog City=B9s 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair (with Indie Records and Crafts, too) =20 Sat. Aug. 4, 11:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. =20 at day 3 of Welcome to Boog City poetry and music festival (complete fest info below) =20 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. (bet. Stanton and Rivington sts.) NYC =20 $20 if we rent table for you =20 email editor@boogcity.com or call 212-842-BOOG (2664) **Please reserve space by Tues. July 31, 2007, 5:00 p.m.** Featuring 15 on the 15=B9s, a 15-minute musical performance each hour on the 15=B9s by: =20 Robert Kerr at =20 11:15 a.m. 12:15 p.m. 1:15 p.m. =20 =20 Sean T. Hanratty at =20 2:15 p.m. 3:15 p.m. 4:15 p.m. =20 =20 Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote thebook and lyrics for the short musical "The Sticky-Fingered Fiancee" and the songs for his plays "Kingdom Gone" and "Meet Uncle Casper" as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations "Bearskin" and "The Juniper Tree." He was also a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. =20 Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your shower, by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly enchanting songs in the shower, of course... http://myspace.com/seanthanratty =20 ------------------ =20 *Welcome to Boog City 4 Days of Poetry and Music =20 Thurs. Aug. 2/ ACA Galleries =20 Fri. Aug. 3/ Sidewalk Cafe =20 Sat. Aug. 4/ Cakeshop =20 Sun. Aug. 5/ Bowery Poetry Club =20 with readings from: =20 David Baratier Sean Cole John Coletti Thomas Devaney Greg Fuchs Joanna Fuhrman Tony Gloeggler Nada Gordon Mitch Highfill Brenda Iijima Eliot Katz Amy King Mark Lamoureux Kimberly Lyons Gillian McCain Simon Perchik Wanda Phipps Kristin Prevallet Lauren Russell Nathaniel Siegel Rachel M. Simon Christina Strong Gary Sullivan Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater Ian Wilder Daniel Zimmerman and more =20 and music from: =20 Dr. Benstock The Drew Gardner Flash Orchestra I Feel Tractor The Leader Rachel Lipson Nan & the Charley Horses The Passenger Pigeons (formerly The Sparrows) and more =20 and =20 The Fugs album, The Village Fugs, performed by Paul Cama, Steve Espinola, Huggabroomstik, I Feel Tractor, JUANBURGUESA, and Scott MX Turner Sat. 8/4 at Cakeshop =20 Hosted by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum For more info: 212-842-BOOG (2664) * editor@boogcity.com =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:45:54 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Sekou Sundiata interview rebroadcast In-Reply-To: <568960.43062.qm@web83306.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today Terry Gross will be rebroadcasting her interview with Sekou Sundiata on "Fresh Air": http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:20:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: trouble in paradise? In-Reply-To: <3011.68.23.162.21.1184909516.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, Charlie, that's twice it's crossed my screen. Just FYI. Hal "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissenger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." --Tom Lehrer Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 20, 2007, at 12:31 AM, Charlie Rossiter wrote: > I've seen numerous postings suggesting we check out people's > literary blogs > > but when i recently sent in a little note suggesting that folks > might be > interested in checking out my blogs on lit topics I did not see it > posted > > I admit I may have overlooked it but I think it did not get through > the > big monitor in the sky...if that's what happened well...here it is > again... > > Just in case. . . > > check out my comments on Camus' "The Fall" and some thoughts on the > ancient Chinese mountain recluse poets at EITHER > > www.myspace.com/charlierossiter > > or > > www.charlierossiter.blogspot.com > same blog postings in two locations...your choice of where to look > in case > you are a Murdochophile > > charlie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:26:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: susan maurer Subject: dead city radio Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed really recommend (old boyfriend) nelson lyon and hal wilner's spoken word recording of wm. burroughs reading , called dead city radio. susan maurer _________________________________________________________________ http://liveearth.msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:05:54 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: tonight at Mercury Cafe In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tonight Tara Betts, Rich Villar, and Daniel Godston perform their poetry during the Mercury Cafe Poetry event hosted by Vittorio Carli. Open mic performances begin at 7 p.m. and the featured poets perform after that. Mercury Cafe 1505 W. Chicago Avenue. (in Chicago) Tara Betts is a poet, activist, educator, and performer originally from Kankakee, Illinois. A Loyola University graduate, she received her MFA in Poetry from New England College in 2007. She authored two chapbooks, Can I Hang? and Switch. Her work appears in several anthologies, including Bum Rush The Page, The Spoken Word Revolution, and Gathering Ground. Her work is also in Callaloo, WSQ, DrumVoices Revue, and Essence. She recently completed her first full-length collection of poems, tentatively titled Infinite Arithmetic. Her work was commissioned for the Steppenwolf Theatre Company production Words on Fire, and she herself appeared onstage at Chicago's DuSable Museum in the Southwest VDay production of Eve Ensler's The Vagina Monologues. In addition, she represented Chicago twice at the National Poetry Slam, and appeared on the fourth season of HBO's Def Poetry. During 13 years as a teaching artist in Chicago, Betts co-founded several initiatives, including GirlSpeak (a program of Young Chicago Authors) and the open mic and performance space Women OutLoud. She has worked with young people in various settings, including Gallery 37, Cook County Juvenile Detention Center, and City Girls, a rehabilitation center for teen girls. Upon relocating to New York City in 2005, she continued her work with young writers, facilitating workshops for the Sadie Nash Leadership Project, Urban Word NYC, and the Bronx Council on the Arts, among others. Betts serves as a lecturer in creative writing at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, NJ and continues to write, publish, perform, and lecture throughout the country. Rich Villar is a poet originally from Paterson, NJ. His work has been nominated for a Pushcart Prize and appears in the journals Rattapallax, Parse, and Achiote Seeds. His work was commissioned for the stage production "Eve Descending," produced in 2005 by Actors Stock NYC. He is an MFA candidate in the Rutgers-Newark Creative Writing program and the host/curator of Acentos, a twice-monthly reading series for Latino/a poets, based in the South Bronx. Rich also represented New York as part of Team NYC-LouderARTS at the 2004 National Poetry Slam. His online exploits include writing about literature and Latino/a culture at http://www.literatiboricua.blogspot.com. Daniel Godston teaches, writes, and creates music in Chicago. His poetry has appeared in Chase Park, Versal, Drunken Boat, 580 Split, Kyoto Journal, Eratica, after hours, and other publications. His poem "Mask to Skin to Blood to Heart to Bone and Back" was nominated by the editors of 580 Split for the Pushcart Prize. In February 2007 he curated the Forth Sound Back event, in the Red Rover Series. He is also the founder of the Chicago Calling Arts Festival. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:09:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Hoerman Subject: Two calls for Massachusetts poets: Kerouac anthology and new poetry org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Call for Submissions (For Poets of Massachusetts and the Merrimack Valley) In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On The Road, the Cultural Organization of Lowell is seeking submissions on the book's themes of freedom, the open road, and friendship for an upcoming anthology, entitled Where The Road Begins. Please send: =95 Up to two new unpublished poems, no more than 35 lines each =95 One line on Kerouac's influence on your work Email submissions only to: coolsubmissions@gmail.com Please include your name, address, phone number and email with each submitted poem. DEADLINE: August 10, 2007 by 5pm Where the Road Begins is sponsored in part by the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA). Please forward to any interested parties. *** Greetings to Massachusetts Poets: Would you like to be listed on a state-wide database of Massachusetts poets? Such a database is being compiled as the first step in the Massachusetts Poetry Outreach Project (MassPOP). The purpose of MassPOP is to create resources to help support and promote poets and poetry throughout the commonwealth. The project is a partnership of the Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Massachusetts Foundation for the Humanities, the Commonwealth Foundation and several private funders. If you'd like to be listed, please send an email that includes: Name Mailing address Phone number/s Email address Website address A SHORT description of what kind of work you do. (For example, "I am author of two chapbooks of poetry (include titles) and I teach a poetry workshop at the Johnson City center for adult education. I write poetry using traditional forms such as sonnets and sestinas.") Please send your email to masspop@gmail.com We look forward to hearing from you. Charles Coe Massachusetts Cultural Council Director, MassPOP ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 10:05:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: A-team, b-list, c-SPAN Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thank you, Ruth. Very kind & unexpected. The list is much revised and, I think, close to its final form-- http://belz.wordpress.com/ However, I still perceive needs at H (HD is OK, but...), R (R2?), and W (WB seems to need a definite article to make it complete). H Bomb, for instance, is better than HD, but since F-bomb is on the list I'm hesitant to, eh hem, pull the trigger. Also I'm thinking of subbing U-Haul for YouTube and J Lo for Jay-Zee. Eventually this will be published in the New Yorker with a clever blurb for each entry, so get your opinion in while you can! Email me at aaron@belz.net if you have ideas. Thanks, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:41:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: New de Blog - San Francisco walks & queries Comments: cc: UK POETRY , "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Mostly brief visual/text dialogs and queries from walks mainly in the Mission District, San Francisco http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Icarus Or Jacob - Ladders & Scaffolds Series Anatomy at Work - Shop Window Series Sidewalk Stencil Art Discussion Visual Oxymoron or, a Gary Winogrand Moment Responses are always, or mostly!, appreciated! Welcome & Enjoy Stephen Vincent http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Walking Theory (84 pages, $12) Junction Press For more, including ordering information, go to: www.junctionpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Robins Subject: Sekou Sundiata - from NYTimes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/arts/music/20sundiata.html July 20, 2007 Sekou Sundiata Dies at 58; Performer of Text and Sound By MARGALIT FOX Sekou Sundiata, a poet and performance artist whose work explored slavery, subjugation and the tension between personal and national identity, especially as they inform the black experience in America, died on Wednesday in Valhalla, N.Y. He was 58 and lived in Brooklyn. The cause was heart failure, said his producer, Ann Rosenthal. At his death, Mr. Sundiata was a professor in the writing program of Eugene Lang College of New School University. Mr. Sundiata’s art, which defied easy classification, ranged from poems performed in the style of an oral epic to musical, dance and dramatic works infused with jazz, blues, funk and Afro-Caribbean rhythms. In general, as he once said in a television interview, it entailed “the whole idea of text and noise, cadences and pauses.” His work was performed widely throughout the United States and abroad, staged by distinguished organizations like the Brooklyn Academy of Music and the Spoleto Festival U.S.A. Among Mr. Sundiata’s most recent works was “the 51st (dream) state,” an interlaced tapestry of poetry, music, dance and videotaped interviews that explores what it means to be an American in the wake of 9/11. His other works include “Udu,” a staged oratorio about slavery in present-day Mauritania, with music by Craig Harris; “blessing the boats,” a one-man show, autobiographically inspired, about Mr. Sundiata’s experiences of heroin addiction, a debilitating car crash and a kidney transplant; and “The Circle Unbroken Is a Hard Bop,” a collaboration with Mr. Harris about black Americans coming of age in the 1960s. Writing in The New York Times in 1993, D .J. R. Bruckner reviewed a production of “The Circle Unbroken” at the Nuyorican Poets Cafe: “This is a remarkably smooth work, its complex stories and ideas bound together by the vivid, memorable poetry of Mr. Sundiata. And in one tornadic scene, the poet lets the audience hear all at once the range of his vocabulary and voice: Mr. Sundiata becomes a young, crazed homeless man on the street, and in eight minutes pours out a torrent of grief, humor and shrewd insight that leaves one simply astonished.” Mr. Sundiata was born Robert Franklin Feaster in Harlem on Aug. 22, 1948; he adopted the African name Sekou Sundiata in the late 1960s. He earned a bachelor’s degree in English from City College of New York in 1972 and a master’s degree in creative writing from the City University of New York in 1979. He is survived by his wife, Maurine Knighton, known as Kazi; a daughter, Myisha Gomez of Manhattan; a stepdaughter, Aida Riddle of Brooklyn; his mother, Virginia Myrtle Singleton Feaster of Kingstree, S.C.; two brothers, William Feaster of Belleville, N.J., and Ronald Feaster of Manhattan; and one grandchild. Mr. Sundiata, who performed with the folk rock artist Ani DiFranco as part of her Rhythm and News tour in 2001, released several CDs of music and poetry, including “The Blue Oneness of Dreams” (Mouth Almighty/Mercury Records) and “longstoryshort” (Righteous Babe Records). His work was also featured on television, on the HBO series “Def Poetry” and the PBS series “The Language of Life.” ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:24:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Latta Subject: Re: A-team, b-list, c-SPAN In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed W's war ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:20:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Two calls for Massachusetts poets: Kerouac anthology and new poetry org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit what about the rest of the world like new york On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:09:00 -0400 Michael Hoerman writes: > Call for Submissions (For Poets of Massachusetts and the Merrimack > Valley) > > In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On The > Road, the Cultural Organization of Lowell is seeking submissions on > the book's themes of freedom, the open road, and friendship for an > upcoming anthology, entitled Where The Road Begins. > > Please send: > • Up to two new unpublished poems, no more than 35 lines each > • One line on Kerouac's influence on your work > > Email submissions only to: coolsubmissions@gmail.com > > Please include your name, address, phone number and email with each > submitted poem. > > DEADLINE: August 10, 2007 by 5pm > > Where the Road Begins is sponsored in part by the National > Endowment > for the Arts (NEA). > > Please forward to any interested parties. > > *** > > Greetings to Massachusetts Poets: > > Would you like to be listed on a state-wide database of > Massachusetts > poets? Such a database is being compiled as the first step in the > Massachusetts Poetry Outreach Project (MassPOP). The purpose of > MassPOP is to create resources to help support and promote poets > and > poetry > throughout the commonwealth. The project is a partnership of the > Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Massachusetts Foundation for > the > Humanities, the Commonwealth Foundation and several private > funders. > > If you'd like to be listed, please send an email that includes: > > Name > Mailing address > Phone number/s > Email address > Website address > A SHORT description of what kind of work you do. (For example, "I > am > author of two chapbooks of poetry (include titles) and I teach a > poetry > workshop at the Johnson City center for adult education. I write > poetry > using traditional forms such as sonnets and sestinas.") > > Please send your email to masspop@gmail.com > > We look forward to hearing from you. > > Charles Coe > Massachusetts Cultural Council > Director, MassPOP > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:31:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Kyle Subject: I Have Imagined A Center // Wilder Than This Region: A Tribute to Susan Howe Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable New from Cuneiform Press I HAVE IMAGINED A CENTER // WILDER THAN THIS REGION: A TRIBUTE TO SUSAN HOWE Edited by Sarah Campbell With the intent of marking and celebrating Howe's years of teaching, the contributors to this volume were asked specifically to comment on her pedagogy and their experience of being her student at the State University of New York at Buffalo where she taught from 1988-2007. Contributors include: Nathan Austin, Sarah Campbell, Barbara Cole, Richard Deming, Thom Donovan, Logan Esdale, Zack Finch, Graham Foust, Benjamin Friedlander, Peter Gizzi, Jena Osman, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, Juliana Spahr, Sasha Steensen, and Elizabeth Willis. Edited by Sarah Campbell with an introduction by Neil Schmitz. 120 pp. 23x 13 cm. (2007) Edition limited to 250 copies. $10 plus $3.50 shipping. Order via. PayPal at www.cuneiformpress.com or send a check made out to: Cuneiform Press 528 Richmond Avenue Buffalo, NY 14222 Forthcoming in August: Ted Greenwald and Hal Saulson=B9s Two Wrongs Dan Featherston=B9s Clock Maker=B9s Memoir ______________ Kyle Schlesinger www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:53:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: beating about the bush Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed George Bush is scheduled for a routine colonoscopy, according to his neurologist. It's not clear whether sedation will have any noticeable effect on his judgment, but on the chance that it may Bush plans to hand over presidential power to Cheney for two hours, during which Cheney will declare war on the world. You heard it here first. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:31:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Two calls for Massachusetts poets: Kerouac anthology and new poetry org In-Reply-To: <20070720.144710.1888.7.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is that your final question? Hal "How beautiful it is to do nothing, and then rest afterward." --Spanish proverb Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 20, 2007, at 1:20 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > what about the rest of the world like new york > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:09:00 -0400 Michael Hoerman =20 > > writes: >> Call for Submissions (For Poets of Massachusetts and the Merrimack >> Valley) >> >> In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On The >> Road, the Cultural Organization of Lowell is seeking submissions on >> the book's themes of freedom, the open road, and friendship for an >> upcoming anthology, entitled Where The Road Begins. >> >> Please send: >> =95 Up to two new unpublished poems, no more than 35 lines each >> =95 One line on Kerouac's influence on your work >> >> Email submissions only to: coolsubmissions@gmail.com >> >> Please include your name, address, phone number and email with each >> submitted poem. >> >> DEADLINE: August 10, 2007 by 5pm >> >> Where the Road Begins is sponsored in part by the National >> Endowment >> for the Arts (NEA). >> >> Please forward to any interested parties. >> >> *** >> >> Greetings to Massachusetts Poets: >> >> Would you like to be listed on a state-wide database of >> Massachusetts >> poets? Such a database is being compiled as the first step in the >> Massachusetts Poetry Outreach Project (MassPOP). The purpose of >> MassPOP is to create resources to help support and promote poets >> and >> poetry >> throughout the commonwealth. The project is a partnership of the >> Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Massachusetts Foundation for >> the >> Humanities, the Commonwealth Foundation and several private >> funders. >> >> If you'd like to be listed, please send an email that includes: >> >> Name >> Mailing address >> Phone number/s >> Email address >> Website address >> A SHORT description of what kind of work you do. (For example, "I >> am >> author of two chapbooks of poetry (include titles) and I teach a >> poetry >> workshop at the Johnson City center for adult education. I write >> poetry >> using traditional forms such as sonnets and sestinas.") >> >> Please send your email to masspop@gmail.com >> >> We look forward to hearing from you. >> >> Charles Coe >> Massachusetts Cultural Council >> Director, MassPOP >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:33:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: beating about the bush In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070720155055.067b1d18@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Let Gary Trudeau know, quick! The search for Bush's brain is on. Hal "We fought a war on poverty, and poverty won." --Pres. Ronald Reagan Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 20, 2007, at 2:53 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > George Bush is scheduled for a routine colonoscopy, according to > his neurologist. It's not clear whether sedation will have any > noticeable effect on his judgment, but on the chance that it may > Bush plans to hand over presidential power to Cheney for two hours, > during which Cheney will declare war on the world. > > You heard it here first. > > Mark ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:02:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "St. Thomasino" Subject: a noun sing e=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=B7ratio_9=B72007?= Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed a noun sing e=B7ratio 9 =B72007 http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com with poetry by: louis armand, bill lavender, jeff harrison, brian=20 zimmer, jon cone, alifair skebe, nicole mauro, michelle cahill, kristy=20= bowen, julie waugh, robyn alter bielawa, jack foley, ivan arguelles,=20 jake berry, jonathan minton, scott wilkerson, and amy grier http://www.eratiopostmodernpoetry.com edited by gregory vincent st. thomasino ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:02:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City 43 Available, and Free PDF and Free PDF Subs, Too Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------------- Hi all, Boog City 43 is available Saturday. If you'd like to receive a free pdf subscription to Boog City, beginning with the current issue, BC43 (contents= ' description below), simply reply to this note with the email address where you'd like it to be sent. Also, our new website http://www.welcometoboogcity.com is going live over the next few weeks. Check there for back issues of the paper, information o= n upcoming events, monthly writing projects from some of our favorite poets, samples from the many publications we've put out over the past 16 years, an= d a shop offering many of them for sale. All thanks to the wizardry of one Christina Strong (http://www.xtina.org/). Thanks, David -------------------- Boog City 43 =20 available Saturday Our Welcome to Boog City festival issue, with work on or by performers taking part in the festival or from the East Village and Williamsburg. Inside, a special 4-page pull-out program, complete with performer bios and photos. =20 And a hearty thanks to Scott MX Turner of Superba Graphics (http://www.superbagraphics.com) for designing the nifty logo for the festival that adorns the back cover and the festival program. featuring: =20 ***Our Printed Matter section, edited by Mark Lamoureux*** --"Much like Whitman, her work aspires to a kind of expansiveness that, by its very nature, cannot be contained within a single gender or sexuality." --from Amy King Contains Multitudes, I'm the Man Who Loves You (BlazeVOX Books) by Amy King, reviewed by Lamoureux ***And Our Comics section*** =20 --"War in the Neighborhood gives anyone living in the East Village a very clear, detailed account of how the neighborhood has changed over the years, especially the last two decades." --from My Seth Tobocman: A Personal Meditation on the Radical Comics Artist by Gary Sullivan ***Our Music section, edited by Jonathan Berger*** =20 --"His live performances are something to experience. Erratic and exciting, Espinola has taken to making no preparation for his shows. =8CThere are times when I get up there I feel I know what I am doing,=B9 he says, =8Cand there are other times I can go up there and make the nervousness a positive part of the act.=B9" -- from Espinola Excites!: AntiFolk stalwart writes and fights, plays and stays in Brooklyn by Berger ***Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from Williamsburg's Miki Katagiri.*** =20 =20 ***Our Poetry section, edited by Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano*** (excerpts from each of this issue's poems below) --Two from Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn's Joanna Fuhrman -from Inflation When the rent went up, we shifted all motion west, lifted the bottoms of our pant legs as if crossing a creek. -from Why are all the Elephants Crying? I am wrinkle-free.=20 which isn=B9t a problem except for the clock bird trapped in my curls. --Kensington, Brooklyn's Nada Gordon with Alpaca Lips (6/6/06) Today is the first day of the end of the world. I feel that in a weaving fever. Oxen breathe out stars =8B men, spiny digits.=20 Shelly Winters bloats into murky paralysis. This is the first face of crumbling. --The Upper East Side's Nathaniel Siegel with an excerpt from no! stench offering raise a corpse his or her feet jump his or her needs rise needs rising invigorate Latin Quarter =20 ----- =20 And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. =20 ----- Please patronize our advertisers: =20 BlazeVOX Books * http://www.blazevox.org Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com Cuneiform Press * http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ Fish Drum * http://www.fishdrum.com Kelsey Street Press * http://www.kelseyst.com ----- =20 Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) =20 ----- =20 2,250 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free at, the following locations: =20 MANHATTAN =20 *THE EAST VILLAGE* =20 Acme Underground =20 Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 Anthology Film Archives Bluestockings =20 Bowery Poetry Club=20 Caf=E9 Pick Me Up Cakeshop Lakeside Lounge =20 Life Caf=E9 Living Room Mission Caf=E9 =20 Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 Pianos =20 The Pink Pony =20 St. Mark's Books =20 St. Mark's Church =20 Shakespeare & Co. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 =20 Sunshine Theater =20 Trash and Vaudeville =20 *OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN* =20 Hotel Chelsea Poets House =20 =20 BROOKLYN =20 *WILLIAMSBURG* =20 Academy Records Bliss Caf=E9 Galapagos =20 Sideshow Gallery =20 Soundfix/Fix Cafe=20 Spoonbill & Sugartown Supercore Caf=E9 =20 *GREENPOINT* (available early next week) =20 Greenpoint Coffee House Lulu's=20 Photoplay Thai Cafe =20 The Pencil Factory =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:47:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Vireo Nefer Subject: Re: Boog City 43 Available, and Free PDF and Free PDF Subs, Too In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Yo! PDF sub! vireo.nefer@gmail.com Thanks! Vireo On 7/20/07, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: > > Please forward > --------------------- > > Hi all, > > Boog City 43 is available Saturday. If you'd like to receive a free pdf > subscription to Boog City, beginning with the current issue, BC43 > (contents' > description below), simply reply to this note with the email address wher= e > you'd like it to be sent. > > Also, our new website http://www.welcometoboogcity.com is going live over > the next few weeks. Check there for back issues of the paper, information > on > upcoming events, monthly writing projects from some of our favorite poets= , > samples from the many publications we've put out over the past 16 years, > and > a shop offering many of them for sale. All thanks to the wizardry of one > Christina Strong (http://www.xtina.org/). > > Thanks, > David > > -------------------- > > Boog City 43 > > available Saturday > > Our Welcome to Boog City festival issue, with work on or by performers > taking part in the festival or from the East Village and Williamsburg. > Inside, a special 4-page pull-out program, complete with performer bios > and > photos. > > And a hearty thanks to Scott MX Turner of Superba Graphics > (http://www.superbagraphics.com) for designing the nifty logo for the > festival that adorns the back cover and the festival program. > > featuring: > > ***Our Printed Matter section, edited by Mark Lamoureux*** > > --"Much like Whitman, her work aspires to a kind of expansiveness that, b= y > its very nature, cannot be contained within a single gender or sexuality.= " > --from Amy King Contains Multitudes, I'm the Man Who Loves You (BlazeVOX > Books) by Amy King, reviewed by Lamoureux > > > ***And Our Comics section*** > > --"War in the Neighborhood gives anyone living in the East Village a very > clear, detailed account of how the neighborhood has changed over the > years, > especially the last two decades." --from My Seth Tobocman: A Personal > Meditation on the Radical Comics Artist by Gary Sullivan > > > ***Our Music section, edited by Jonathan Berger*** > > --"His live performances are something to experience. Erratic and > exciting, > Espinola has taken to making no preparation for his shows. =8CThere are > times > when I get up there I feel I know what I am doing,=B9 he says, =8Cand the= re > are > other times I can go up there and make the nervousness a positive part of > the act.=B9" -- from Espinola Excites!: AntiFolk stalwart writes and figh= ts, > plays and stays in Brooklyn by Berger > > > ***Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from Williamsburg's Miki > Katagiri.*** > > > ***Our Poetry section, edited by Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano*** > (excerpts from each of this issue's poems below) > > --Two from Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn's Joanna Fuhrman > > -from Inflation > > When the rent went up, we shifted > all motion west, lifted the bottoms > of our pant legs as if crossing a creek. > > -from Why are all the Elephants Crying? > > I am wrinkle-free. > which isn=B9t a problem > except for the clock bird > trapped in my curls. > > > --Kensington, Brooklyn's Nada Gordon with > > Alpaca Lips (6/6/06) > > Today is the first day > of the end of the world. > > I feel that in a weaving > fever. Oxen breathe out stars =8B > men, spiny digits. > > Shelly Winters bloats > into murky paralysis. > This is the first face of > crumbling. > > > --The Upper East Side's Nathaniel Siegel with an > > excerpt from no! > > stench > offering > raise a corpse > his or her > feet jump > his or her > needs rise > needs rising > invigorate Latin Quarter > > > ----- > > And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. > > ----- > > Please patronize our advertisers: > > BlazeVOX Books * http://www.blazevox.org > Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com > Cuneiform Press * http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ > Fish Drum * http://www.fishdrum.com > Kelsey Street Press * http://www.kelseyst.com > > ----- > > Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to > editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) > > ----- > > 2,250 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free > at, > the following locations: > > MANHATTAN > > *THE EAST VILLAGE* > > Acme Underground > Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 > Anthology Film Archives > Bluestockings > Bowery Poetry Club > Caf=E9 Pick Me Up > Cakeshop > Lakeside Lounge > Life Caf=E9 > Living Room > Mission Caf=E9 > Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 > Pianos > The Pink Pony > St. Mark's Books > St. Mark's Church > Shakespeare & Co. > Sidewalk Caf=E9 > Sunshine Theater > Trash and Vaudeville > > *OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN* > > Hotel Chelsea > Poets House > > > BROOKLYN > > *WILLIAMSBURG* > > Academy Records > Bliss Caf=E9 > Galapagos > Sideshow Gallery > Soundfix/Fix Cafe > Spoonbill & Sugartown > Supercore Caf=E9 > > *GREENPOINT* > (available early next week) > > Greenpoint Coffee House > Lulu's > Photoplay > Thai Cafe > The Pencil Factory > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > --=20 AIM: vireonefer LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml?user=3Dvireoibis VireoNyx Publications: http://www.vireonyxpub.org INK: http://www.inkemetic.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 00:10:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracey Gagne Subject: Re: Boog City 43 Available, and Free PDF and Free PDF Subs, Too In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I'm interested in receiving the pdfs of boog city that you mention here. My email address is: euphrasie71@gmail.com. Sincerely, Tracey M. Gagne On 7/20/07, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: > > Please forward > --------------------- > > Hi all, > > Boog City 43 is available Saturday. If you'd like to receive a free pdf > subscription to Boog City, beginning with the current issue, BC43 > (contents' > description below), simply reply to this note with the email address wher= e > you'd like it to be sent. > > Also, our new website http://www.welcometoboogcity.com is going live over > the next few weeks. Check there for back issues of the paper, information > on > upcoming events, monthly writing projects from some of our favorite poets= , > samples from the many publications we've put out over the past 16 years, > and > a shop offering many of them for sale. All thanks to the wizardry of one > Christina Strong (http://www.xtina.org/). > > Thanks, > David > > -------------------- > > Boog City 43 > > available Saturday > > Our Welcome to Boog City festival issue, with work on or by performers > taking part in the festival or from the East Village and Williamsburg. > Inside, a special 4-page pull-out program, complete with performer bios > and > photos. > > And a hearty thanks to Scott MX Turner of Superba Graphics > (http://www.superbagraphics.com) for designing the nifty logo for the > festival that adorns the back cover and the festival program. > > featuring: > > ***Our Printed Matter section, edited by Mark Lamoureux*** > > --"Much like Whitman, her work aspires to a kind of expansiveness that, b= y > its very nature, cannot be contained within a single gender or sexuality.= " > --from Amy King Contains Multitudes, I'm the Man Who Loves You (BlazeVOX > Books) by Amy King, reviewed by Lamoureux > > > ***And Our Comics section*** > > --"War in the Neighborhood gives anyone living in the East Village a very > clear, detailed account of how the neighborhood has changed over the > years, > especially the last two decades." --from My Seth Tobocman: A Personal > Meditation on the Radical Comics Artist by Gary Sullivan > > > ***Our Music section, edited by Jonathan Berger*** > > --"His live performances are something to experience. Erratic and > exciting, > Espinola has taken to making no preparation for his shows. =8CThere are > times > when I get up there I feel I know what I am doing,=B9 he says, =8Cand the= re > are > other times I can go up there and make the nervousness a positive part of > the act.=B9" -- from Espinola Excites!: AntiFolk stalwart writes and figh= ts, > plays and stays in Brooklyn by Berger > > > ***Art editor Brenda Iijima brings us work from Williamsburg's Miki > Katagiri.*** > > > ***Our Poetry section, edited by Laura Elrick and Rodrigo Toscano*** > (excerpts from each of this issue's poems below) > > --Two from Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn's Joanna Fuhrman > > -from Inflation > > When the rent went up, we shifted > all motion west, lifted the bottoms > of our pant legs as if crossing a creek. > > -from Why are all the Elephants Crying? > > I am wrinkle-free. > which isn=B9t a problem > except for the clock bird > trapped in my curls. > > > --Kensington, Brooklyn's Nada Gordon with > > Alpaca Lips (6/6/06) > > Today is the first day > of the end of the world. > > I feel that in a weaving > fever. Oxen breathe out stars =8B > men, spiny digits. > > Shelly Winters bloats > into murky paralysis. > This is the first face of > crumbling. > > > --The Upper East Side's Nathaniel Siegel with an > > excerpt from no! > > stench > offering > raise a corpse > his or her > feet jump > his or her > needs rise > needs rising > invigorate Latin Quarter > > > ----- > > And thanks to our copy editor, Joe Bates. > > ----- > > Please patronize our advertisers: > > BlazeVOX Books * http://www.blazevox.org > Bowery Poetry Club * http://www.bowerypoetry.com > Cuneiform Press * http://www.cuneiformpress.com/ > Fish Drum * http://www.fishdrum.com > Kelsey Street Press * http://www.kelseyst.com > > ----- > > Advertising or donation inquiries can be directed to > editor@boogcity.com or by calling 212-842-BOOG (2664) > > ----- > > 2,250 copies of Boog City are distributed among, and available for free > at, > the following locations: > > MANHATTAN > > *THE EAST VILLAGE* > > Acme Underground > Angelika Film Center and Caf=E9 > Anthology Film Archives > Bluestockings > Bowery Poetry Club > Caf=E9 Pick Me Up > Cakeshop > Lakeside Lounge > Life Caf=E9 > Living Room > Mission Caf=E9 > Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 > Pianos > The Pink Pony > St. Mark's Books > St. Mark's Church > Shakespeare & Co. > Sidewalk Caf=E9 > Sunshine Theater > Trash and Vaudeville > > *OTHER PARTS OF MANHATTAN* > > Hotel Chelsea > Poets House > > > BROOKLYN > > *WILLIAMSBURG* > > Academy Records > Bliss Caf=E9 > Galapagos > Sideshow Gallery > Soundfix/Fix Cafe > Spoonbill & Sugartown > Supercore Caf=E9 > > *GREENPOINT* > (available early next week) > > Greenpoint Coffee House > Lulu's > Photoplay > Thai Cafe > The Pencil Factory > > -- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher > Boog City > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > For event and publication information: > http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ > T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > F: (212) 842-2429 > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 00:51:05 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: precisely In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070720155055.067b1d18@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe Cheney will drop a nuke on Bush's colon. That'd be nice. That's what I'd call laser precision accuracy, not like randomly shooting at lawyers at Texas quail hunts. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 2:54 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: beating about the bush George Bush is scheduled for a routine colonoscopy, according to his neurologist. It's not clear whether sedation will have any noticeable effect on his judgment, but on the chance that it may Bush plans to hand over presidential power to Cheney for two hours, during which Cheney will declare war on the world. You heard it here first. Mark ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 02:43:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: Two calls for Massachusetts poets: Kerouac anthology and new poetry org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit no i need more words that mean love in many different languages got any? On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:31:00 -0500 Halvard Johnson writes: > Is that your final question? > > Hal > > "How beautiful it is to do nothing, > and then rest afterward." > --Spanish proverb > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > On Jul 20, 2007, at 1:20 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > > > what about the rest of the world like new york > > > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:09:00 -0400 Michael Hoerman > > > > writes: > >> Call for Submissions (For Poets of Massachusetts and the > Merrimack > >> Valley) > >> > >> In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On > The > >> Road, the Cultural Organization of Lowell is seeking submissions > on > >> the book's themes of freedom, the open road, and friendship for > an > >> upcoming anthology, entitled Where The Road Begins. > >> > >> Please send: > >> • Up to two new unpublished poems, no more than 35 lines > each > >> • One line on Kerouac's influence on your work > >> > >> Email submissions only to: coolsubmissions@gmail.com > >> > >> Please include your name, address, phone number and email with > each > >> submitted poem. > >> > >> DEADLINE: August 10, 2007 by 5pm > >> > >> Where the Road Begins is sponsored in part by the National > >> Endowment > >> for the Arts (NEA). > >> > >> Please forward to any interested parties. > >> > >> *** > >> > >> Greetings to Massachusetts Poets: > >> > >> Would you like to be listed on a state-wide database of > >> Massachusetts > >> poets? Such a database is being compiled as the first step in > the > >> Massachusetts Poetry Outreach Project (MassPOP). The purpose of > >> MassPOP is to create resources to help support and promote poets > >> and > >> poetry > >> throughout the commonwealth. The project is a partnership of the > >> Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Massachusetts Foundation for > >> the > >> Humanities, the Commonwealth Foundation and several private > >> funders. > >> > >> If you'd like to be listed, please send an email that includes: > >> > >> Name > >> Mailing address > >> Phone number/s > >> Email address > >> Website address > >> A SHORT description of what kind of work you do. (For example, > "I > >> am > >> author of two chapbooks of poetry (include titles) and I teach a > >> poetry > >> workshop at the Johnson City center for adult education. I write > >> poetry > >> using traditional forms such as sonnets and sestinas.") > >> > >> Please send your email to masspop@gmail.com > >> > >> We look forward to hearing from you. > >> > >> Charles Coe > >> Massachusetts Cultural Council > >> Director, MassPOP > >> > >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 03:41:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: stress fracture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed View This is the view from my desk which is neither in Paris nor the Black Forest; it faces nothing but bleak development, projects, urban wasteland scheduled for drastic over-development, still opposed by Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) in what is increasingly appearing to be a losing battle. How can one expect literature from such blight, nature pushed out to the limit, pigeons with missing toes resulting from frostbite, squir- rels huddled in backyards along with jays and almost invisible mourning doves? Everything protects itself; humans are the dominant species and everything, including other humans, is prey. So don't can't expect literature, only theory crippled by screams and auto accidents; you can't expect proper grammar and spelling - those literary matters - in the face of screeching cars and sirens. http://www.asondheim.org/windowview.jpg ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 08:59:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: "Weightedness in Poetry: An Approach to Scott Thurston" by Ira Lightman Comments: To: british-poets@jiscmail.ac.uk, wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu "Weightedness in Poetry: An Approach to Scott Thurston" by Ira Lightman http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Lightman%20essay%202.htm ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 08:20:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Two calls for Massachusetts poets: Kerouac anthology and new poetry org In-Reply-To: <20070721.024826.588.10.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "something from the oven"? That's from bizspeak. Hal "One barium enema is worth a year of psychoanalysis." --Dr. Robert Whitlock Halvard Johnson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 21, 2007, at 1:43 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > no > i need more words that mean love in many different languages got any? > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:31:00 -0500 Halvard Johnson > writes: >> Is that your final question? >> >> Hal >> >> "How beautiful it is to do nothing, >> and then rest afterward." >> --Spanish proverb >> >> Halvard Johnson >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Jul 20, 2007, at 1:20 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: >> >>> what about the rest of the world like new york >>> >>> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:09:00 -0400 Michael Hoerman >>> >>> writes: >>>> Call for Submissions (For Poets of Massachusetts and the >> Merrimack >>>> Valley) >>>> >>>> In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On >> The >>>> Road, the Cultural Organization of Lowell is seeking submissions >> on >>>> the book's themes of freedom, the open road, and friendship for >> an >>>> upcoming anthology, entitled Where The Road Begins. >>>> >>>> Please send: >>>> =95 Up to two new unpublished poems, no more than 35 lines >> each >>>> =95 One line on Kerouac's influence on your work >>>> >>>> Email submissions only to: coolsubmissions@gmail.com >>>> >>>> Please include your name, address, phone number and email with >> each >>>> submitted poem. >>>> >>>> DEADLINE: August 10, 2007 by 5pm >>>> >>>> Where the Road Begins is sponsored in part by the National >>>> Endowment >>>> for the Arts (NEA). >>>> >>>> Please forward to any interested parties. >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> Greetings to Massachusetts Poets: >>>> >>>> Would you like to be listed on a state-wide database of >>>> Massachusetts >>>> poets? Such a database is being compiled as the first step in >> the >>>> Massachusetts Poetry Outreach Project (MassPOP). The purpose of >>>> MassPOP is to create resources to help support and promote poets >>>> and >>>> poetry >>>> throughout the commonwealth. The project is a partnership of the >>>> Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Massachusetts Foundation for >>>> the >>>> Humanities, the Commonwealth Foundation and several private >>>> funders. >>>> >>>> If you'd like to be listed, please send an email that includes: >>>> >>>> Name >>>> Mailing address >>>> Phone number/s >>>> Email address >>>> Website address >>>> A SHORT description of what kind of work you do. (For example, >> "I >>>> am >>>> author of two chapbooks of poetry (include titles) and I teach a >>>> poetry >>>> workshop at the Johnson City center for adult education. I write >>>> poetry >>>> using traditional forms such as sonnets and sestinas.") >>>> >>>> Please send your email to masspop@gmail.com >>>> >>>> We look forward to hearing from you. >>>> >>>> Charles Coe >>>> Massachusetts Cultural Council >>>> Director, MassPOP >>>> >>>> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:29:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Pyjamas Embrace St. Crispin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Who of course is Crispin Glover, here discussed in Almereyda's missed masterpiece _Twister_(1998). Plus new poetry by yours truly and a sequence of visual thoughts occasioned by a reliquary seahorse produced yesterday...this and other serendipitous finds that would make Mr. Cornell reach deeper into that thrift store box...can all be found levitating at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:25:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Fwd: 2 from the Stack - New Online Album In Progress by Lewis LaCook Comments: To: rhizome , webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --- Lewis LaCook wrote: > Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 12:17:29 -0400 > From: Lewis LaCook > Subject: 2 from the Stack - New Online Album In > Progress by Lewis LaCook > To: WRYTING-L@listserv.wvu.edu > > Everything is All Good > http://www.lewislacook.org/thestack/everything_is_all_good.mp3 > > Karl Rove Falls Asleep Mid-flight and Dreams of > Hitler > http://www.lewislacook.org/thestack/karl_rove_falls_asleep.mp3 > > > > > All songs composed using Audacity on Debian/GNU > Linux--Support Open > Source Software! > > > > -- > http://www.lewislacook.org > New Media Poetry and Poetics > > http://www.xanaxpop.org > The Poetry of Lewis LaCook > > http://www.abstractoutlooks.com > Affordable Web Hosting and Development > Lewis LaCook Director of Web Development Abstract Outlooks Media 440-989-6481 http://www.abstractoutlooks.com Abstract Outlooks Media - Premium Web Hosting, Development, and Art Photography http://www.lewislacook.org lewislacook.org - New Media Poetry and Poetics http://www.xanaxpop.org Xanax Pop - the Poetry of Lewis LaCook ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:36:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Poetry Foundation's Lit Party Raided by Chicago Cops MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I just talked with CJ Laity who runs Chicagopoetry.com and wrote the article. He was there. This really happened, around 10:30 Friday night. The event was scheduled to go on for several more hours. We can only hope the Poetry Foundation will raise a stink about it Charlie ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Printers Ball Gets Busted From: "ChicagoPoetry.com" Date: Sat, July 21, 2007 10:33 am To: posey@poetrypoetry.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- . This year's Printers Ball got raided by the police. Here's the story: http://chicagopoetry.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=696 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 15:20:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tracey Gagne Subject: Re: stress fracture In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline And yet, there's a cave-like feature in the picture because of the way the curtain hangs in the window.... On 7/21/07, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > View > > This is the view from my desk which is neither in Paris nor the Black > Forest; it faces nothing but bleak development, projects, urban wasteland > scheduled for drastic over-development, still opposed by Develop Don't > Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) in what is increasingly appearing to be a losing > battle. How can one expect literature from such blight, nature pushed out > to the limit, pigeons with missing toes resulting from frostbite, squir- > rels huddled in backyards along with jays and almost invisible mourning > doves? Everything protects itself; humans are the dominant species and > everything, including other humans, is prey. > > So don't can't expect literature, only theory crippled by screams and auto > accidents; you can't expect proper grammar and spelling - those literary > matters - in the face of screeching cars and sirens. > > http://www.asondheim.org/windowview.jpg > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:08:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Two calls for Massachusetts poets: Kerouac anthology and new poetry org In-Reply-To: <20070721.024826.588.10.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit pagsinta means love in filipino steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > no > i need more words that mean love in many different languages got any? > > On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 15:31:00 -0500 Halvard Johnson > writes: > >> Is that your final question? >> >> Hal >> >> "How beautiful it is to do nothing, >> and then rest afterward." >> --Spanish proverb >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> >> On Jul 20, 2007, at 1:20 PM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: >> >> >>> what about the rest of the world like new york >>> >>> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 08:09:00 -0400 Michael Hoerman >>> >>> writes: >>> >>>> Call for Submissions (For Poets of Massachusetts and the >>>> >> Merrimack >> >>>> Valley) >>>> >>>> In commemoration of the 50th anniversary of Jack Kerouac's On >>>> >> The >> >>>> Road, the Cultural Organization of Lowell is seeking submissions >>>> >> on >> >>>> the book's themes of freedom, the open road, and friendship for >>>> >> an >> >>>> upcoming anthology, entitled Where The Road Begins. >>>> >>>> Please send: >>>> • Up to two new unpublished poems, no more than 35 lines >>>> >> each >> >>>> • One line on Kerouac's influence on your work >>>> >>>> Email submissions only to: coolsubmissions@gmail.com >>>> >>>> Please include your name, address, phone number and email with >>>> >> each >> >>>> submitted poem. >>>> >>>> DEADLINE: August 10, 2007 by 5pm >>>> >>>> Where the Road Begins is sponsored in part by the National >>>> Endowment >>>> for the Arts (NEA). >>>> >>>> Please forward to any interested parties. >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> Greetings to Massachusetts Poets: >>>> >>>> Would you like to be listed on a state-wide database of >>>> Massachusetts >>>> poets? Such a database is being compiled as the first step in >>>> >> the >> >>>> Massachusetts Poetry Outreach Project (MassPOP). The purpose of >>>> MassPOP is to create resources to help support and promote poets >>>> and >>>> poetry >>>> throughout the commonwealth. The project is a partnership of the >>>> Massachusetts Cultural Council, the Massachusetts Foundation for >>>> the >>>> Humanities, the Commonwealth Foundation and several private >>>> funders. >>>> >>>> If you'd like to be listed, please send an email that includes: >>>> >>>> Name >>>> Mailing address >>>> Phone number/s >>>> Email address >>>> Website address >>>> A SHORT description of what kind of work you do. (For example, >>>> >> "I >> >>>> am >>>> author of two chapbooks of poetry (include titles) and I teach a >>>> poetry >>>> workshop at the Johnson City center for adult education. I write >>>> poetry >>>> using traditional forms such as sonnets and sestinas.") >>>> >>>> Please send your email to masspop@gmail.com >>>> >>>> We look forward to hearing from you. >>>> >>>> Charles Coe >>>> Massachusetts Cultural Council >>>> Director, MassPOP >>>> >>>> >>>> >> ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 21:46:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Uselessness of Monoculture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Uselessness of Monoculture I will call 'monoculture' anything before the advent of the Internet - in particular artworks, literature, theater, dance, etc. etc. This culture is characterized by the singular; even when dispersive anatomies are present, they are always in opposition or subtext to traditional thought. The mono- lith is always present and accounted-for. The monolith is either station- ary or process- movement- oriented, always static or dynamic; its elements cohere, separate, are born to die, to be reborn again. This is the culture of the traditional university but it is also urban culture, street-corner culture; it is the culture of history and historiography, of the encyclo- pedia and the expert and think-tank. Monoculture resolves, whether towards resolution or irresolution; it is possessed by narratological impulse, by development and the compass. Monoculture is not necessarily unary; there is multiplicity and the nomadic, beneath the stars, within it. Monoculture blinds us to the world; it is the World that is all the case. It is the culture of gas, liquid, solid, electrostatics, electrodynamics, special and general relativity; it is the substance of quantum mechanics insofar as action may be defined as action or verification at a distance. In sum, it is our sum, our summation, our accountancy of the world and of our- selves, and it is useless, as the result of an Internet that is neither singular nor plural, neither present nor absent, neither coherent nor dis- persed; I will call 'Internet' what has corrupted monoculture, tended towards its demise. I am not implying that 'Internet' in fact or fiction signifies anything, that the name means; it may, in fact or fiction, be characterized imprecisely by insigification, spews, abjections, blurs, avatars, nothing at all. For the change that has come about within and without the tangled skein, holarchy of networkings, is of the plasma or swarm; it is Wolfram's science, not Hertz's. Thinking through social sites, collaborative facting and fictioning, wikipediatry, avatars of avatars, bots and phishing, what comes clear is lack of clarity, lack of clarity's epistemology. This is a fundamental transform to the extent that anything is fundamental at this point; it sweeps away, for example, plots and allegories, bureaucracies and governments, minds and bodies. Think of pre-Internet novels - novels of modernism or post-modernism, of constructed and conceptual weavings, of characters or lack of them. And television, theater, cinema, follow suit; one is locked into farther time, father time, to diegesis, to an unravel- ing that characterizes experimental film as well. Neither film nor paint- ing are linear, but both participate in a locking-down of perspective, no matter what openings, contusions, are on the horizon. Lacan, Gardner, even Bateson presaged multiplicities; in Wolfram the swarm is simultaneously organized and disorganized. Lacan never went far enough; there was that reliance on language, no matter how shifted. It comes down to this: When I read a novel, I don't recognize myself, the 'times,' any- thing. When I watch a show on television, there are actors, people, or animated actors. They're moving through familiar antiquated monolithic space, proscenium or deep space - it makes no difference; there's always a perspective. Perspective invades novels, stories, the world of monolithic writing - on the other hand, try assigning a vanishing-point to MySpace or even Facebook. Even Second Life, which tends towards classical perspec- tive, falls apart on the edges where the simulacrum of physics is turned, churned upside-down. One doesn't recognize (oneself or others) in Second Life because recognition is already a problem; everything moves within the aegis of Bell's theorem. Consider photographic apparatus: begin with camera obscura, that one-to- one allegory of the real - through Daguerre, view cameras, stationary then moving then Edgerton. Cameras dissolve into swarming components; now com- ponents themselves disappear as cameras transform into light-sensitive holarchies, networked or independent, under whose or what control? The image ends up everywhere and nowhere at all; no longer is it allegory - which has long since disappeared - but the stuttering of the fragment which no longer is in need of suture or extension. You can watch family trauma, physical and mental abuse, on the morning talk shows, but whose families? whose abuse? whose perspective? It doesn't need to end up on YouTube; YouTube provides its own violence, its own parameters of liter- ally unfathomable streams. Videos are removed if found, if from copy- righted material; everything gets through, leaks. But leaks from nothing - the culture, non-monolithic, Internetted, leaks without transmitters, receivers, leaks without channels, or leaks from traditional channels, only to be churned back, lost in brackish protocol. Code, programs, codes, protocols, reference one another, are increasingly open-sourceless; scratch the surface and no one's there, nor beneath the surface - all those dead-ending projects on SourceForge ending up maybe somewhere else, maybe vaporware, the languor of the name. Languages embed languages; soon they'll be without physical foundation for all intents and purposes, perfectly floating signifiers shattering against subroutines and useful or useless misuses. (The world doesn't end either with a bang or with a whimper; there is no world to end.) This confusion is on the ground as well - in some places, Harry Potter really is a witch; children suffer as a result. It doesn't take electron- ics; it takes nothing more than extinctions, overpopulation, global cli- mate change, weapon distribution, religious fanaticisms, starvation, desertification - the unsupportive world. Radiations swirl around the farthest villages; there are unheard broadcasts, music, news, exhortations to the perfect religious life, promises of vacated paradises. These places or spaces are the future of the novel; language dissolves without signifi- ers, without that place where the sememe holds, however tenuously. It's here that home is found, in the bombing of the home, categorization of flora and fauna, ethnic cleansing. Online real explosions transform into hacking, thousands, millions, of MySpace friends, hundreds of millions of blogs, billions of Wikipedia pages hardly ever under contestation. Yes, it's all true. Yes, none of it is. Monolithic culture prepared the battlefield inhabited only by the wounded. Monolithic culture developed the technology of multiplicity and the plasma - a multiplicity of multiplicities, never stationary enough for analysis, never moving enough for a coherent dynamics to emerge. It's a memory to an extent, to the extent that memory is encapsulated in fast-forward media already forgetting what was loosened in the habitus. This is all electronic, all colonial, all nanobot, this isn't your fath- er's monoculture, your mother's multiplicity, your father's multiplicity, your mother's monoculture. Capital seeps everywhere as do heat and water; island nations are disappearing in the Pacific, Atlantic not far behind. Think of this as the anxiety of diminishing power; surely, not only is the world out of control, but control is as well. What happens to feedback in chaotic domains? One likes to think fecundity, fractal, but in the real this holds only so long before 'things' bottom out in rust and tumors. Monoculture is always waiting in the wings; as networks decay and data- bases turn useless, big iron will descend upon the world. But this is far in the future, a future so defined that no one will see it, no one will inhabit it. Instead of now, we are pre-sent, always in a state of arrival; there are endless tracks, monorails, they go nowhere, sink in dust, desiccation. This is all electronic, and as technology miniaturizes, improves, perhaps these skeins will continue, sheathed, to exist, transmit, transform, no matter what. Then the scenario simply holds longer. Consider: There are no species. There is no real life, no organic life, no artificial life, no patented life, no constructed life. There is network life and one hopes that the remnants of wilderness (which are not to be deconstructed) remain that way, that enclaves succeed where management hasn't. Consider: There are no persons; there are couplings, situations which grow increasingly small and temporary, imminent decisions. Consider: Immanence has disap- peared, if it were every anything more than mythos; it's replaced by the Facebook contact, as enunciations are replaced and replicated by 'What I am doing now.' Consider the usual: We are all audience; none of us are watching; we are all watching; there is no 'we.' It's the latter Lacan has missed; there is nothing to talk about. These essays themselves are thin sheaves, interspersions; they carry the dim light of the dusk into the dusk. 'Beyond' means absolutely nothing; time is indicated only by the stoppage of death. What is a store if not a mouse-click or twitch? What is a body if not blown to pieces by a car-bomb? On a certain undefined level, these are identical. Perhaps an economic level. Perhaps in the poetics of disappearance. To be in pain, slaughtered, wounded, is two-fold, interior, exterior. The former stops everything; it is unthinkable, unbearable. It is always other even when ourselves. The color of time disappears without witness. But exterior - this requires transmission, a receiver, political economy, some means of noise control. The receiver must be receptive, must orient itself towards the message; otherwise the message remains noise, death. The receiver must have space place for reception, a moment off the network which in the very real, idiotic inert real, may be what has brought her to this moment. But the receiver is already dissolving and a hundred-thousand new novels are being born, and they are not novels, nor histories, but software biographies perhaps. Rather than monoculture, monolith, let us say multlathe, uncontrolled or multiply-controlled lathes refashioning, refiguring, configuring, what we are reading that was once literature. There is great exhilaration, great promise; multilathing, in its bypassing any and all absolutes, is always in process of permanent deconstruction. Think of the school essay, modified, bought, sold, dated, outdated, online and offline, assembled, reassembled, spell-checked, recreated, plagiar- ized, written on demand, printed on demand, behind wikipediatry, related to class, gender, sex, race, nation, religion, handedness, all or none. Think of the essay reader, the recipient, following through with programs designed to weed out the copy which is always already a copy, hacking his way through the sememe looking for miscreants, passing results to and from university and institutional databases, listening softly to the YouTube song, exchange of draft letter on Gmail, or just listening to Ipod Itunes with her Ii. The whole world is steganographic, embedded, uninterpretable, piecemeal, exchanged. So for better or worse monoculture is dead; it grew on foreign soil, is in the process of recession. To what? To the corners of vulnerable data-bases and technologies, conservationists, those disappearing from the present. The future were there, pre-sent, and it's why novels and paintings and just about anything before 1985, say - _not_ 1968 - is inconceivably quaint, something for school credit, nothing more. We need an ethnography of our own pasts presented as disappearing cultures or archaeologies written in the unreadable, spoken in the unspeakable; it is here that our bodies once reproduced and never reproduced in the continuing acceleration of images - of someone or other or no one at all. (I'm not good enough; I'm not smart enough: You may think this is tempora- ry or not-me, not-I, that this is elsewhere, of an other, an other genera- tion, place space, time, time before death. This is not the bicylist who was injured on the corner of Fifth and Bergen three days ago, but this is her/our interior, her/our political economy, what comes about in the midst of architecture and physics. I want to talk about the pleasure of novel- reading, Harry Potter and other accelerants, and their fan- and enclave- existence. I want to talk about radiations and dusts and their dispersions and what they carry from prions to nanogarbage to pollutions to sex to early deaths from bullets and asthma. I want to talk about mash, I want to perform djay vjay Vday vdday. I want to be you or someone. Rimbaud knew he was splitting up. The last of the obscene has passed, the obscene is al- ways passing: the ob-hack fractured and visible. The last of the discourse too.) ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:49:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: son of pony: open mic+feature: aug 3 Comments: To: Acousticlv@aol.com, AdeenaKarasick@cs.com, AGosfield@aol.com, alonech@acedsl.com, Altjazz@aol.com, amirib@aol.com, Amramdavid@aol.com, anansi1@earthlink.net, AnselmBerrigan@aol.com, arlenej2@verizon.net, Barrywal23@aol.com, bdlilrbt@icqmail.com, butchershoppoet@hotmail.com, CarolynMcClairPR@aol.com, CaseyCyr@aol.com, CHASEMANHATTAN1@aol.com, Djmomo17@aol.com, Dsegnini1216@aol.com, Gfjacq@aol.com, Hooker99@aol.com, rakien@gmail.com, jeromerothenberg@hotmail.com, Jeromesala@aol.com, JillSR@aol.com, JoeLobell@cs.com, JohnLHagen@aol.com, kather8@katherinearnoldi.com, Kevtwi@aol.com, krkubert@hotmail.com, LakiVaz@aol.com, Lisevachon@aol.com, Nuyopoman@AOL.COM, Pedevski@aol.com, pom2@pompompress.com, Rabinart@aol.com, Rcmorgan12@aol.com, reggiedw@comcast.net, RichKostelanetz@aol.com, RnRBDN@aol.com, Smutmonke@aol.com, sprygypsy@yahoo.com, SHoltje@aol.com, Sumnirv@aol.com, tcumbie@nyc.rr.com, velasquez@nyc.com, VITORICCI@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 21:09:10 EDT Evebpacker@aol.com writes: hey y'all & co: join us! read yr poem, speak yr piece, enjoy the feature(s), and yourself: FRIDAY, AUG 3; 6-8 P.M. son of pony OPEN MIC + FEATURE host: EVE PACKER feature: YUKO OTOMO, STEVE DALACHINSKY CORNELIA ST CAFE 29 Cornelia St. (betw bleecker & w. 4th) 212-989-9319 $6 ************************************** Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:03:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Sun & Moon Press In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070719180732.0570da00@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What ever happened to that poets' calendar book thatr Sun & Moon were going to publish? > George Harry Bowering Can't find his Speedo ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 09:52:51 +0000 Reply-To: editor@fulcrumpoetry.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Fulcrum Annual Subject: Philip Nikolayev featured on Authors of Myspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Philip Nikolayev's new collection of poems Letters from Aldenderry (Salt, 2006) is featured on Authors of Myspace: http://www.myspace.com/myspace_authors The feature includes a bio and blurbs along with an exclusive interview that appears on the Authors of Myspace blog: http://blog.myspace.com/myspace_authors ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:54:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Pyjamas Swab Your Eye With Silver MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New poetry and visual art spike the weekend at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas, including works wondering what an image is, works addressing John Yau and works with a decidedly porcine bent. He said bent, hehe hehe. It's all simmering and simpering at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) . Almost a whole month of NO GARRISON KEILLER EVER at JPB, and we're mighty proud of that fact..."SCRUB, CHRISTINA, SCRUB!!" ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 11:42:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: stress fracture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "What is not in the open streets is false, derived that is to say literatur= e"--Henry Miller(of Brooklyn born and raised)Signor Alan--why further remov= e oneself from the open streets by the departure into the realms of theory?= what IS in the open streets is a poetry hidden in plain site/sight/cite--"P= oetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself"--Paul Celan--when one sp= eaks of "expectations" it is a set -up of imposing criteria--("literature")= --and finding these not met--imposing other criteria--("theory")--when what= is to found is that which is exposing itself (poetry)all around one--hidde= n in plain site/sight/citefrom impositioning concepts of "literature" and "= theory"--david-bchttp://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com> Date: Sat, 21 Jul= 2007 15:20:17 -0400> From: euphrasie71@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: stress frac= ture> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > And yet, there's a cave-like feat= ure in the picture because of the way the> curtain hangs in the window....>= > > > > On 7/21/07, Alan Sondheim wrote:> >> > View> = >> > This is the view from my desk which is neither in Paris nor the Black>= > Forest; it faces nothing but bleak development, projects, urban wastelan= d> > scheduled for drastic over-development, still opposed by Develop Don't= > > Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) in what is increasingly appearing to be a losin= g> > battle. How can one expect literature from such blight, nature pushed = out> > to the limit, pigeons with missing toes resulting from frostbite, sq= uir-> > rels huddled in backyards along with jays and almost invisible mour= ning> > doves? Everything protects itself; humans are the dominant species = and> > everything, including other humans, is prey.> >> > So don't can't ex= pect literature, only theory crippled by screams and auto> > accidents; you= can't expect proper grammar and spelling - those literary> > matters - in = the face of screeching cars and sirens.> >> > http://www.asondheim.org/wind= owview.jpg> > _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 19:17:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: C.I.A. Paranoia, McDonalds Third World Poetry, Liz Phair Poem & More MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe Brainard's Pyjamas rocket into paranoia, that great destroy-a for a few hours, then discover scan-sion cures all ills, and think about Liz Phair thinking about relationships, pulls out the old time machine and watches Plushophiles in the future...it's just yr ordinary day @ _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 18:24:23 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Re: Poetry Foundation's Lit Party Raided by Chicago Cops In-Reply-To: <3763.68.23.162.21.1185035781.squirrel@www.poetrypoetry.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yeah, I was there too... I heard the reason the cops shut it down was there were people selling booze on different floors, and they didn't have a liquor license. The Zhou B. Center (www.zhoub.com) has their own bar / cafe where they sell alcohol, so Zhou B. must have their own license. The question is whether the people selling beer etc. on the 2nd & 3rd floors had a license. It's one thing if you go to an event like a gallery opening and they've got the free wine & cheese, but you need the license if you want to sell it... Maybe cops have two mandates: keep up public safety, and generate revenue for their employer (in this case the City of Chicago). I don't think a bunch of poetry & zine aficionados who are having a good time, celebrating literature, and who may be blotto or sober or somewhere in between are a threat to public safety. But illegally selling booze gives cops an opportunity to bust a place, and then the city slaps the venue with a fine. The cops get patted on the backs from the lieutenant or whoever. If the problem was they didn't have the proper liquor license, I wonder whose fault it is: Zhou B. Center or the Poetry Foundation. If this was the problem, personally I blame the Poetry Foundation because they might have been the event's biggest sponsor. They should've known better. They should've understood the public codes for that, and they should've been overseeing the event. I don't think John Barr, the Poetry Foundation's President, was there. Some of you may have read this article that came out in The New Yorker earlier this year: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/02/19/070219fa_fact_goodyear. Ruth Lilly was the one who gave the Poetry Foundation $200 million several years ago. The Eli Lilly & Co. make Prozac; maybe Eli Lilly & Co. reps could've been there on Friday to give the cops Prozac so they could've just chilled out. Did the cops bust the event because the Printer's Ball was disrupting the public? I didn't see any of that. I did see some dudes in their underwear and goggles playing electronic music, but that's not like Jim Morrison in Miami in 1969 when he allegedly pulled his pants down. It was amazing to see how many people and literary organizations worked together to make the event happen. Also, there was an impressive list of Printer's Ball Readings that have happened over the past month, leading up to last Friday's event at the Zhou B. Center. I'm looking forward to next year's Printer's Ball. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlie Rossiter Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 11:36 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Poetry Foundation's Lit Party Raided by Chicago Cops I just talked with CJ Laity who runs Chicagopoetry.com and wrote the article. He was there. This really happened, around 10:30 Friday night. The event was scheduled to go on for several more hours. We can only hope the Poetry Foundation will raise a stink about it Charlie ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Printers Ball Gets Busted From: "ChicagoPoetry.com" Date: Sat, July 21, 2007 10:33 am To: posey@poetrypoetry.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- . This year's Printers Ball got raided by the police. Here's the story: http://chicagopoetry.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=6 96 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 09:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bretonbooks@NS.SYMPATICO.CA Subject: Regarding Merle Hoyleman Comments: To: CAConrad9@AOL.COM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This e-mail is for CA Conrad. I woke up this morning thinking of Merle Hoyleman. Went to Google. Other than Jonathan Williams, your listserve note makes me think I am one of the very few living who knew Merle face to face. Can this be? I published Asp of the Age, printed it in Toronto. I expect your issue of the magazine regarding Merle has been published by now and I'd be interested to see it. It is unlikely that I'll be able to offer anything for publication because despite visits in Pittsburgh, this morning I don't have much memory of things discussed. But the interest is there. Must be something in the air. I've just published a little book called GEORGE ORWELL'S FRIEND: Selected Writing by Paul Potts. A reworking of my introduction is in arcpoetry magazine--the latest issue, devoted to "shamefully neglected or forgotten Canadian poets." www.arcpoetry.ca As it happens, Jonathan Williams is one of the few people to write something about Potts in the last several years. But then again, Jonathan often focused on the neglected and forgotten long before the rest of us knew that they existed. Anthony Carroll wrote a memoir fairly recently in (I think) London Review. And thinking of the N & F, I realize that another poet I published who should not be forgotten is Pittsburgh's Haniel Long (born in Rangoon to missionary parents, died in Santa Fe). In any case, please let me know this has been received and how your search for Merle turned out. If there are specific questions, I don't mind digging back, if I can help. NOTE: Merle self-published an edition of 25 signed and numbered copies of LETTERS TO CHRISTOPHER in 1970. Witih good wishes, Ronald Caplan THEN I FOUND THIS, which speaks to the above: this is an idea i had about a year ago for a magazine celebrating obscure poets i'd like more folks to know about, but it kind of went nowhere with the first issue. the first poet was supposed to be a feature of Merle Hoyleman. she's really amazing, and maybe i'll share some of her poems on the Philly Sound blog, but it's impossible to use her for the WHATEVER HAPPENED TO THE POET? magazine, mainly because everyone who knew her is already dead, and there's not even anyone out there who has read her poems, it seems. James Laughlin knew the most about her. Jonathan Williams knew her, but doesn't have too much to share, except that she would call him in the middle of baseball games and talk about the "Scum," her paranoid collective she seemed to focus on a lot. New Directions gave me permission to reprint her Christopher Letters Poems and maybe that's what i'll do, here on the blog, soon. they're really brilliant, lost treasures. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:54:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: stress fracture In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-410923229-1185152081=:4020" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-410923229-1185152081=:4020 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE The open streets is a poetry? The open streets are people I know being=20 kicked out of their places by eminent domain seizure; if that's poetry so= =20 be it but to me it's just theft. Alan On Sun, 22 Jul 2007, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > "What is not in the open streets is false, derived that is to say literat= ure"--Henry Miller(of Brooklyn born and raised)Signor Alan--why further rem= ove oneself from the open streets by the departure into the realms of theor= y?what IS in the open streets is a poetry hidden in plain site/sight/cite--= "Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself"--Paul Celan--when one = speaks of "expectations" it is a set -up of imposing criteria--("literature= ")--and finding these not met--imposing other criteria--("theory")--when wh= at is to found is that which is exposing itself (poetry)all around one--hid= den in plain site/sight/citefrom impositioning concepts of "literature" and= "theory"--david-bchttp://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com> Date: Sat, 21 J= ul 2007 15:20:17 -0400> From: euphrasie71@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: stress fr= acture> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > And yet, there's a cave-like fe= ature in the picture because of the way the> curtain hangs in the window...= =2E> > > > > On 7/21/07, Alan Sondheim wrote:> >> > Vi= ew> >> > This is the view from my desk which is neither in Paris nor the Bl= ack> > Forest; it faces nothing but bleak development, projects, urban wast= eland> > scheduled for drastic over-development, still opposed by Develop D= on't> > Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) in what is increasingly appearing to be a l= osing> > battle. How can one expect literature from such blight, nature pus= hed out> > to the limit, pigeons with missing toes resulting from frostbite= , squir-> > rels huddled in backyards along with jays and almost invisible = mourning> > doves? Everything protects itself; humans are the dominant spec= ies and> > everything, including other humans, is prey.> >> > So don't can'= t expect literature, only theory crippled by screams and auto> > accidents;= you can't expect proper grammar and spelling - those literary> > matters -= in the face of screeching cars and sirens.> >> > http://www.asondheim.org/= windowview.jpg> > > _________________________________________________________________ > See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. > http://newlivehotmail.com > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --0-410923229-1185152081=:4020-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:08:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Covey Subject: a new coconut MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Coconut Nine--featuring new poems, translations, and collaborations by Andrei Codrescu, Bernadette Mayer, Terita Heath-Wlaz, Jonah Winter, Stephen Paul Miller, Hoa Nguyen, Meghan Punschke, Louisa Spaventa, Dan Hoy, Betsy Fagin, Andrew Zawacki, Caryl Pagel, Karyna McGlynn, CAConrad, Didi Menendez, Mark Ducharme, E. Tracy Grinnell, Olivia Cronk, Nava Fader, Megan A. Volpert, Gary Barwin & Gregory Betts, Ulf Stolterfoht, Rosmarie Waldrop, Amy Berkowitz, and Tao Lin--is now live on the web. Come visit: http://www.coconutpoetry.org! Bruce Covey Coconut Editor ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:13:40 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cralan kelder Subject: versal 5 to hold in your hands In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Versal 5 recently released. More than 100 pages of goodness to help light the way in these dark times Thank you to all who submitted and contributed from this list http://www.wordsinhere.com/versal.html Jeffery Beam =20 Vesna Biga Don Bloch =20 Adam Boles Louis E. Bourgeois=20 Ronda Broatch Tsead Bruinja=20 Mary Buchinger Helen Burke =20 Nicolas Delamotte-Legrand Lorene Delany-Ullman Andrea England Emma Engstr=F6m =20 Jennifer Gandel Ridgeway Charles Geoghegan-Clements Giles Goodland =20 Si=E2n Griffiths Joe Hall =20 Myronn Hardy David Hart =20 Henrik Hey Josh Hockensmith =20 Steve Klepetar Enes Kurtovic =20 Ana Lafferranderie Francesco Levato =20 Amanda Lichtenberg Joris de Monchy=20 Alistair Noon Alissa Nutting =20 Billy O'Callaghan Nathan Parker =20 Tye Pemberton Octavio Quintanilla Joseph Radke Andrew Michael Roberts Matt Sadler Elizabeth Simson =20 Will Smiley Allison Smythe =20 Annemoon van Steen Kelly Zen-Yie Tsai=20 Kees Verbeek Julie Marie Wade=20 =C9ric Watier J. Marcus Weekley =20 Eric Weiskott Derek White =20 Kelley White Robin Winckel-Mellish Theodore Worozbyt =20 John Young ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 07:18:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Fieled Subject: Kristy Bowen on PFS Post/ OCHO #11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Check out three fab poems from Chicago's very own Kristy Bowen on PFS Post: http://www.artrecess.blogspot.com Also, obtain a copy of OCHO #11, guest edited by me and featuring poems by rob mclennan, Brian Kim Stefans, Steve Halle, David Prater, Mary Walker Graham, Larry Sawyer, Christopher Goodrich and Jessica Lee White, here: http://www.lulu.com/content/1031091 And, as always, http://www.adamfieled.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:08:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: stress fracture In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline dear alan > you misunderstand what i am saying > if you look at my blogspot you will get an idea > the site where i work lately every evening-- > used to be a huge old house abandoned finally with very large nice > yard--quiet streets, an alley--behind a street of small businesses--indie > bookstore etc etc-- > lately more chain places have opened on that street-- > and now the house torn down, the lot torn up and sitting there huge cat > bulldozer and several heavy duty machines--cranes etc--also working on th= e > tops of couple of the buildings facing the street with the businesses-- > > condos, eleven stories, going up on th old lot and office spaces--highest > nearby buildings three stores-- > > all over the East Side of Milwaukee this is going on-- > > all over the world i goes on--and in some places like West Bank and Gaza > you have the most extreme forms of this sort of real estate > ethnic/gentrification cleansing of areas--(theft, as you note--) > > what i mean by poetry is one uses the things that are there physically to > make works which literally embody and physically express what is going > on--as it is happening--i use cement mixing materials, brick dust, bits o= f > smashed things, the busted wood, the machines etc in the pieces made also= of > spray paint, wood, clay, lumber crayon rubBEings-- > and have been collecting materials for small "environments" > pieces--basically like "ruins"/"broken skeletons" and so forth-- > instead of using fotos which can't afford anyway and "texts" in a more > conventional sense--these are a kind of collaborative ongoing seiries mak= ing > with the site itself--is going to be expanding much more in the uses of > materials involved--as the police were called and once that al straighten= ed > out have a freer rein now to be doing what have always been doing anyway-= - > > years ago lived in huge abandoned house which in a couple rooms made > paintings collages etc on walls and created "shrines" "environments" out = of > things found in streets--eventually the place--long condemned--bulldozed, > knocked down using wrecking balls--and smashed everything inside-- > > so just returned and began using all the debris to make other things as > protests and to indicate that one goes on no matter what happens--what on= e > makes of thee things does not come to an end-- > > i've been homeless in several cities in different countries and lived in > various "shelters"--and witnessed the steady disappearance of towns, > neighborhoods, huge areas of cities--and what is the history of the usa > anyway but this?--my mother' father's family who came from > "reservations"--to make room for a sort of version of "eminent > domain"--"theft"--to be sure-- > > i can't stop what is going on with the bulldozers and cranes (look what > happened to rachel corrie, as a cynical warning) > but one can make --essay to make--something out of the wreckage which is > scattered about as both a protest and a poem-- > > something which uses the materials directly from the site/sight/cite > rather than at one or several removes-- > > and though "crude" and "literal" it's as "transgressive" etc and > "crippled" as any theory--and really a form of theory being acted on "han= d's > on"----the police have interviewed me four times now and once was about t= o > be hauled downtown if not for intervention of some neighborly citizens--a= nd > the materials one uses are crippled enough pieces of refuse often enough = in > contrast with the powerful machines and fresh girders, blocks of cement, = etc > being hauled into place at the site-- > (and what are the callers and police concerned with--theft! --might be stealing things from the site--or defacing private property--at one site--assaulted by a freaked out landowner--who thought i was planting an explosive device on "his" immense crane--making rubBEings off of the huge tire--but squatting and working with back to him, wearing black sweatshirt with hood up--???--i couldn't really be upset with the guy, who profusely apologized--) at any rate, it is but one way of essaying "doing something" with what is > happening-- > so everyday am at these sites and of late this one in particular-- > and evidently some people see it as "theft" back of the "theft" going on-- > Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 20:54:41 -0400 > > From: sondheim@PANIX.COM > > Subject: Re: stress fracture > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > > > > The open streets is a poetry? The open streets are people I know being > > kicked out of their places by eminent domain seizure; if that's poetry > so > > be it but to me it's just theft. > > > > Alan > > > > > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2007, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: > > > > > "What is not in the open streets is false, derived that is to say > literature"--Henry Miller(of Brooklyn born and raised)Signor Alan--why > further remove oneself from the open streets by the departure into the > realms of theory?what IS in the open streets is a poetry hidden in plain > site/sight/cite--"Poetry no longer imposes itself, it exposes itself"--Pa= ul > Celan--when one speaks of "expectations" it is a set -up of imposing > criteria--("literature")--and finding these not met--imposing other > criteria--("theory")--when what is to found is that which is exposing its= elf > (poetry)all around one--hidden in plain site/sight/citefrom impositioning > concepts of "literature" and > "theory"--david-bchttp://davidbaptistechirot.blogspot.com> Date: Sat, 21 = Jul > 2007 15:20:17 -0400> From: euphrasie71@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: stress > fracture> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU> > And yet, there's a cave-lik= e > feature in the picture because of the way the> curtain hangs in the > window....> > > > > On 7/21/07, Alan Sondheim wrote:= > > >> > View> >> > This is the view from my desk which is neither in Paris n= or > the Black> > Forest; it faces nothing but bleak development, projects, ur= ban > wasteland> > scheduled for drastic over-development, still opposed by > Develop Don't> > Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) in what is increasingly appearin= g > to be a losing> > battle. How can one expect literature from such blight, > nature pushed out> > to the limit, pigeons with missing toes resulting fr= om > frostbite, squir-> > rels huddled in backyards along with jays and almost > invisible mourning> > doves? Everything protects itself; humans are the > dominant species and> > everything, including other humans, is prey.> >> = > > So don't can't expect literature, only theory crippled by screams and aut= o> > > accidents; you can't expect proper grammar and spelling - those literar= y> > > matters - in the face of screeching cars and sirens.> >> > > http://www.asondheim.org/windowview.jpg> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > See what you're getting into=85before you go there. > > > http://newlivehotmail.com > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. > > Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. > > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check > > WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance= , > > dvds, etc. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > ------------------------------ > Missed the show? Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. See them > now! > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 06:58:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: DJ SPOOKY Subject: Wired Magazine Feature on DJ Spooky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Hey People! For those of you on the list who haven't checked out my compilation of classics from the archives of the legendary Trojan Records, one of my favorite magazines, Wired, did a great overview of my Trojan Project - after all, it's the record label's 40th Anniversary! For Jamaican music 40 years is a really really really long time! Imagine Def Jam in 40 years... Hard to think about, eh? The mix that I did was part of a series Trojan Records has set up. They asked Johhny Greenwood, the guitarist for Radiohead, and Fatboy Slim to also do selections and remixes. Look out for that too! Anyway, I wanted to let you all know about a couple of things: The Wired Magazine feature is really solid, and it even has a slideshow of classic old school album covers. Linkage Upgrading Jamaica's Cultural Shareware: Dj Spooky Presents Trojan Records at 40 http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2007/07/trojan DJ Spooky: How a Tiny Caribbean Island Birthed the Mashup http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2007/07/spooky_QA Gallery: A Look Back at 40 Years of Reggae Hits http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/multimedia/2007/07/gallery_trojan ------------------------- On the same tip I remixed a classic Bob Marley track "Rainbow Country" for the upcoming "Roots, Rock, Remixed" compilation that the Marley family commissioned for their record label "Tuff Gong." I just wanted to let the list know - it's on a downtempo party tip, but hey... It's perfect for summer. The album will be out in a bit. All I can say is you heard it here first! Check it!!! Coming July 24, 2007 Bob Marley & The Wailers - Roots Rock, Remixed "Retains the songs and the spirit of the original(s)... a great dance party record" ~ Chris Blackwell (Founder, Island Records) >>LISTEN TO THE RAINBOW COUNTRY REMIX: http://www.myspace.com/djspooky ------------------------------ And last but not least, for the www.myspace.com/djspooky community, I wanted to let everyone know about a great festival of digital media coming up. It's called Indian Electronic Music Festival, and me and and the legendary Talvin Singh are doing a track for the compilation that accompanies the festival. You can preview the track at http://www.myspace.com/djspooky. It's called "Satyagraha" after Mahatma Ghandi's philosophy of non violent resistance to all forms of oppression. We're going to do a remix contest to help raise awareness about the festival - more on that in a bit. This summer, my main focus has been my art projects, and I'm not really dj'ing that much at the moment 'cause I'm in the studio working on my next album. During the interim, check out the Wired Magazine article! I'm just writing from my studio to say what's up, and to wish y'all a happy Summer. President Bush is still up to his bullsh*t, the war ON Iraq is still going on, and the world is heating on up. But hey... Music helps bring awareness of it all. aiightt! in peace, Paul aka DJ Spooky ------------------------ UPCOMING EVENTS 7.28 Watermill, NY: Benefit for Robert Wilson's Watermill Center http://www.watermillcenter.org 9.08 San Francisco, CA: Power to the Peaceful Festival Golden Gate Park http://www.powertothepeaceful.org Click here on http://server1.streamsend.com/newstreamsend/unsubscribe.php?cd=725&md=171&ud=f16c7d0351a4dbece9ac75b29b7601d0 to update your profile or Unsubscribe ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:02:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Cross Subject: Atticus/Finch presents: Durgin and Pay Pal! Comments: cc: ENG-POETICS-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit [Please forward this on to interested parties, post on blogs, etc....small presses survive on word of mouth!] Dear Friends, Atticus/Finch is honored to announce the release of its tenth chapbook, Patrick F. Durgin’s _Imitation Poems_. For most, Durgin’s name will need little introduction: as editor of Kenning for nearly a decade, he’s played an inestimable role in the cultural production of some fantastically important work, and, as a poet, Durgin writes some seriously taut and careful little numbers. I’ve admired his work for years, and when a Durgin volume did not materialize in said years, I decided to make one myself. When you see it, I’m certain you’ll be glad I did! These poems promise to knock you back into your chair and then onto the ground, and then they promise to roll you around and around on the ground until you’re dizzy and exhausted and just want to go to bed. And to commemorate this, our tenth-book-anniversary, we’ve finally added Pay Pal to the website! Stop by (www.atticusfinch.org) to view an image of the cover and read some sample poems, and then buy Imitation Poems for eight dollars (!) with the click of a button! And if you’ve been meaning to purchase a copy of John Taggart’s _Unveiling/Marianne Moore_, you should buy that too before the handful of copies in existence disappears with the click of a Pay Pal. OR, if you prefer to do it the old fashioned way, write me a note, cut a check for eight bucks (made payable to Michael Cross) and mail it here: Atticus/Finch Chapbooks c/o Michael Cross State University of New York at Buffalo Samuel Clemens Hall #306 Buffalo, New York 14260-4610 And finally, just in case your curious, forthcoming from Atticus/Finch: Taylor Brady and Rob Halpern, _Snow Sensitive Skin_ (Fall 2007) C.J. Martin, _Lo, Bittern_ (Winter 2007-2008) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:18:30 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leon Tan Subject: New Media Haiku Poetry and Haiga (Visual Haiku) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hello People! I just joined the list and wanted to let you all know about a new media haiku poetry project I have been working on since 2005. 'Haiku Trader' is a new media poetry / performance artwork that began in 2005. The art work as such utilises the social network myspace as a virtual collaborative space investigating the theme of distributed creativity and aesthetics. Practically speaking, what this means is that the work is not 'limited' to this profile but must be conceptualised as the network it involves progressively over time. This network can be explored through the virtual traces left as haiku 'comments' throughout the myspace community. Haiku Trader is accessible at this url: http://www.myspace.com/rhizomantik Rhizome artbase listing for Haiku Trader: http://rhizome.org/object.php?41160 Whilst Haiku Trader is a public profile, I also maintain a private project that is only accessible to MySpacers who join as a 'friend' of Rhizomantic. Rhizomantic as a private profile investigates distributed poetry in relation to the art life blur. Accessible at this url: http://www.myspace.com/rhizomantic I hope to connect with others interested in digital poetry, haiku, haiga, and distributed authorship on this list. Cheers, Leon Tan ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:09:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE REVOLUTION MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline A new documentary produced and directed by The Global Women's Strike has just been released to PBS stations across the country. If you live in Philadelphia you can check out today's post on The PhillySound for time and dates: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com If you want to see it on your local PBS station contact your station, and contact The Global Women's Strike to make it happen. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:42:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: Wired Magazine Feature on DJ Spooky In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed now i like the subliminal kid as much as the next guy. IMHO, as a musician and sound artist he resides in the same rarified air as geniuses like "scratch" perry, harry partch, glenn branca, iannis xenakis, and hugh lecaine. that having been said, what does this Vivendi advertising spam that the list saw fit to forward to my inbox have to do with poetry? On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, DJ SPOOKY wrote: > Hey People! > For those of you on the list who haven't checked out my compilation of > classics from the archives of the legendary Trojan Records, one of my > favorite magazines, Wired, did a great overview of my Trojan Project - > after all, it's the record label's 40th Anniversary! For Jamaican music 40 > years is a really really really long time! Imagine Def Jam in 40 years... > Hard to think about, eh? The mix that I did was part of a series Trojan > Records has set up. They asked Johhny Greenwood, the guitarist for > Radiohead, and Fatboy Slim to also do selections and remixes. Look out for > that too! > > Anyway, I wanted to let you all know about a couple of things: The Wired > Magazine feature is really solid, and it even has a slideshow of classic > old school album covers. > > Linkage > Upgrading Jamaica's Cultural Shareware: > Dj Spooky Presents Trojan Records at 40 > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2007/07/trojan > > DJ Spooky: How a Tiny Caribbean Island Birthed the Mashup > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2007/07/spooky_QA > > Gallery: A Look Back at 40 Years of Reggae Hits > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/multimedia/2007/07/gallery_trojan > > ------------------------- > > On the same tip I remixed a classic Bob Marley track "Rainbow Country" for > the upcoming "Roots, Rock, Remixed" compilation that the Marley family > commissioned for their record label "Tuff Gong." I just wanted to let the > list know - it's on a downtempo party tip, but hey... It's perfect for > summer. The album will be out in a bit. All I can say is you heard it here > first! Check it!!! > > Coming July 24, 2007 > Bob Marley & The Wailers - Roots Rock, Remixed > "Retains the songs and the spirit of the original(s)... a great dance party > record" > ~ Chris Blackwell (Founder, Island Records) > >>> LISTEN TO THE RAINBOW COUNTRY REMIX: > http://www.myspace.com/djspooky > > ------------------------------ > > And last but not least, for the www.myspace.com/djspooky community, I > wanted to let everyone know about a great festival of digital media coming > up. It's called Indian Electronic Music Festival, and me and and the > legendary Talvin Singh are doing a track for the compilation that > accompanies the festival. You can preview the track at > http://www.myspace.com/djspooky. It's called "Satyagraha" after Mahatma > Ghandi's philosophy of non violent resistance to all forms of oppression. > We're going to do a remix contest to help raise awareness about the > festival - more on that in a bit. This summer, my main focus has been my > art projects, and I'm not really dj'ing that much at the moment 'cause I'm > in the studio working on my next album. During the interim, check out the > Wired Magazine article! > > I'm just writing from my studio to say what's up, and to wish y'all a happy > Summer. President Bush is still up to his bullsh*t, the war ON Iraq is > still going on, and the world is heating on up. But hey... Music helps > bring awareness of it all. > > aiightt! > > in peace, > Paul aka DJ Spooky > > ------------------------ > UPCOMING EVENTS > > 7.28 > Watermill, NY: Benefit for Robert Wilson's Watermill Center > http://www.watermillcenter.org > > 9.08 > San Francisco, CA: Power to the Peaceful Festival > Golden Gate Park > http://www.powertothepeaceful.org > > > > Click here on http://server1.streamsend.com/newstreamsend/unsubscribe.php?cd=725&md=171&ud=f16c7d0351a4dbece9ac75b29b7601d0 to update your profile or Unsubscribe > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:32:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jerrold Shiroma Subject: Re: Wired Magazine Feature on DJ Spooky In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit everything... Jason Quackenbush wrote: > that having been said, what does this Vivendi advertising spam that > the list saw fit to forward to my inbox have to do with poetry? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:42:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Amazon Review Project on Fanzine Comments: To: ampersand@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" The Amazon Review Project is a collection of fictions written in the form of Amazon customer reviews. In spring, 2007, for a seminar in first person fiction at San Francisco State, I assigned a number by Kevin Killian's Amazon Reviews and asked students to develop their own fictional characters through a series of Amazon reviews. Their amazing reviews, as well as an introduction by me, are now on line at Fanzine: www.thefanzine.com The reviewers are: Tom Andes Renato Escudero Michele Hayes Jim Nelson Megan O'Patry Radhika Vyas Sharma Lee Stegner Maria Suarez Jasson Flick Check it out! Dodie Bellamy ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:28:03 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Joe Brainard's Pyjamas Looks into the Void and Sees.... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit South Park Haiku, a "Death Poem," Charles Baudelaire standing waiting for a bus and some other vaguely disquieting apparitions, some with bus fare, some without...catch your ride at _http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/_ (http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/) And still an unbroken record of NO GARRISON KEILLOR EVER! "Scrub, Christina, Scrub...get the Praire OUT!" ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:56:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Nagarjuna 1 2 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Nagarjuna 1 2 3 You are singing no space, place, spatial distinctions cumber observation, the annihilated self. How so. Speak no speech, to be spoken to, undisting- uished distinction, in zazen in walking meditation, hearing is the space of the heard. My bones are ornaments, my neck Buddha's, my eyes Nagarju- na's. Pratyahara, withdrawal, without rasa, flavor, fervour. Breathing is the body's violence, meditate your corpse, you have it, you are singing no home, no home singing, you are singing no home singing, you are singing no home singing no home singing, you are singing no home singing http://www.asondheim.org/buddha.mp3 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:31:17 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Transcontinental award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The Annual Transcontinental Poetry Award by Pavement Saw Press All contributors receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Please mention this to your friends and all others who might be interested! Electronic and mailed entries must meet these requirements: 1. The manuscript should be at least 48 pages of poetry and no more than 70 pages of poetry in length. Separations between sections are NOT a part of the page count. 2. A one page cover letter. Include a brief biography, the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. This should be followed by a page which lists publication acknowledgments for the book. For each acknowledgement mention the publisher (journal, anthology, chapbook etc.) and the poem published. 3. The manuscript should be bound with a single clip and begin with a title page including the book's title, your name, address, and telephone number, and, if you have e-mail, your e-mail address. 4. The second page should have only the title of the manuscript. There are to be no acknowledgments or mention of the author's name from this page forward. Submissions to the contest are blind judged. 5. There should be no more than one poem on each page. The manuscript can contain pieces longer than one page. 6. The manuscript should be paginated, beginning with the first page of poetry. Each year Pavement Saw Press will publish at least one book of poetry and/or prose poems from manuscripts received during this competition. Selections are chosen through a blind judging process. The competition is open to anyone who has not previously published a volume of poetry or prose. The author receives $1000 and five percent of the 1000 copy press run. Previous judges have included Judith Vollmer, David Bromige, Bin Ramke and Howard McCord. This year David Baratier will be the judge; past students, Pavement Saw Press interns and employees are not allowed to submit. All poems must be original, all prose must be original, fiction or translations are not acceptable. Writers who have had volumes of poetry and/or prose under 40 pages printed or printed in limited editions of no more than 500 copies are eligible. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and until August 15th. All submissions must have an August 15th, 2007, or earlier, postmark. This is an award for first books only. If you wish to send via regular mail your manuscript should be accompanied by a check in the amount of $18.00 made payable to Pavement Saw Press. All US contributors to the contest will receive books, chapbooks and journals equal to, or more than, the entry fee. Add $3 (US) for other countries to cover the extra postal charge. Do not include an SASE for notification of results, this information will be sent with the free book. Do not send the only copy of your work. All manuscripts are recycled and individual comments on the manuscripts cannot be made. If you wish to submit electronically, you should send $25.00 via paypal to info@pavementsaw.org. We will then send you an e-mail confirmation as well as where to e-mail the manuscript. Electronic submissions need to be sent as PDF files or as word (.doc) files. Other formats are not accepted. The extra cost is to cover the paypal fees as well as the time, labor, ink, and so on, to print out your manuscript. In addition to the prize winner, sometimes another anonymous manuscript is chosen, if enough entries arrive. This “editors choice” manuscript will be published under a standard royalty contract. A decision will be reached in November. Entries should be sent to: Pavement Saw Press Transcontinental Award Entry P.O. Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 All submissions must have an August 15th, or earlier, postmark or paypal payment. Submissions are accepted during the months of June, July, and August only. If you have questions, please ask us: info@pavementsaw.org Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:55:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: July 25th: Goat Island Performance Presentations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit PERFORMANCE PRESENTATIONS: 9th GOAT ISLAND SUMMER SCHOOL CHICAGO, IL 1pm Wednesday, July 25th 2007 all welcome free The School of the Art Institute of Chicago 280 S. COLUMBUS DRIVE Please meet us in room 110 of the Columbus Drive Building. Chicago-based Goat Island Performance Group is currently working with 29 participants on their annual three-week collaborative performance summer school. Participants have been engaged in collaborative performance, installation and writing projects. There will be seven 9-minute site-specific pieces. You are invited to watch their performance presentations, followed by an informal reception where you can meet the participants and Goat Island. For more information on Goat Island, please see: http://www.goatislandperformance.org http://www.thelastperformance.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:04:28 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: Wired Magazine Feature on DJ Spooky In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I met that Subliminal Kid since I was his interpreter when he got over to Italy. I anyhow think that the mail he forwards once or twice a year to the Buffalo is one of the many he is sending out to advertise his work. He therefore will never read your or my words, Jason. I guess that what you are writing is for us to read. I have no answers to your question. On 7/23/07, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > now i like the subliminal kid as much as the next guy. IMHO, as a musician > and sound artist he resides in the same rarified air as geniuses like > "scratch" perry, harry partch, glenn branca, iannis xenakis, and hugh > lecaine. > > that having been said, what does this Vivendi advertising spam that the > list saw fit to forward to my inbox have to do with poetry? > > > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007, DJ SPOOKY wrote: > > > Hey People! > > For those of you on the list who haven't checked out my compilation of > > classics from the archives of the legendary Trojan Records, one of my > > favorite magazines, Wired, did a great overview of my Trojan Project - > > after all, it's the record label's 40th Anniversary! For Jamaican music > 40 > > years is a really really really long time! Imagine Def Jam in 40 > years... > > Hard to think about, eh? The mix that I did was part of a series Trojan > > Records has set up. They asked Johhny Greenwood, the guitarist for > > Radiohead, and Fatboy Slim to also do selections and remixes. Look out > for > > that too! > > > > Anyway, I wanted to let you all know about a couple of things: The Wired > > Magazine feature is really solid, and it even has a slideshow of classic > > old school album covers. > > > > Linkage > > Upgrading Jamaica's Cultural Shareware: > > Dj Spooky Presents Trojan Records at 40 > > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2007/07/trojan > > > > DJ Spooky: How a Tiny Caribbean Island Birthed the Mashup > > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2007/07/spooky_QA > > > > Gallery: A Look Back at 40 Years of Reggae Hits > > > http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/multimedia/2007/07/gallery_trojan > > > > ------------------------- > > > > On the same tip I remixed a classic Bob Marley track "Rainbow Country" > for > > the upcoming "Roots, Rock, Remixed" compilation that the Marley family > > commissioned for their record label "Tuff Gong." I just wanted to let > the > > list know - it's on a downtempo party tip, but hey... It's perfect for > > summer. The album will be out in a bit. All I can say is you heard it > here > > first! Check it!!! > > > > Coming July 24, 2007 > > Bob Marley & The Wailers - Roots Rock, Remixed > > "Retains the songs and the spirit of the original(s)... a great dance > party > > record" > > ~ Chris Blackwell (Founder, Island Records) > > > >>> LISTEN TO THE RAINBOW COUNTRY REMIX: > > http://www.myspace.com/djspooky > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > And last but not least, for the www.myspace.com/djspooky community, I > > wanted to let everyone know about a great festival of digital media > coming > > up. It's called Indian Electronic Music Festival, and me and and the > > legendary Talvin Singh are doing a track for the compilation that > > accompanies the festival. You can preview the track at > > http://www.myspace.com/djspooky. It's called "Satyagraha" after Mahatma > > Ghandi's philosophy of non violent resistance to all forms of > oppression. > > We're going to do a remix contest to help raise awareness about the > > festival - more on that in a bit. This summer, my main focus has been my > > art projects, and I'm not really dj'ing that much at the moment 'cause > I'm > > in the studio working on my next album. During the interim, check out > the > > Wired Magazine article! > > > > I'm just writing from my studio to say what's up, and to wish y'all a > happy > > Summer. President Bush is still up to his bullsh*t, the war ON Iraq is > > still going on, and the world is heating on up. But hey... Music helps > > bring awareness of it all. > > > > aiightt! > > > > in peace, > > Paul aka DJ Spooky > > > > ------------------------ > > UPCOMING EVENTS > > > > 7.28 > > Watermill, NY: Benefit for Robert Wilson's Watermill Center > > http://www.watermillcenter.org > > > > 9.08 > > San Francisco, CA: Power to the Peaceful Festival > > Golden Gate Park > > http://www.powertothepeaceful.org > > > > > > > > Click here on > http://server1.streamsend.com/newstreamsend/unsubscribe.php?cd=725&md=171&ud=f16c7d0351a4dbece9ac75b29b7601d0< > http://server1.streamsend.com/newstreamsend/unsubscribe.php?cd=725&md=171&ud=f16c7d0351a4dbece9ac75b29b7601d0> > to update your profile or Unsubscribe > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:25:40 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: SCOTT HOWARD Subject: Seeking Editors for New Journal In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This fall, I'll be launching an electronic journal, _Reconfigurations: A Journal for Poetics and Poetry_, and, at the moment, I'm looking for one or two new people to join the editorial board. If you're interested, please send a reply w/ an attached CV. For more information about Reconfigurations, visit: http://reconfigurations.blogspot.com/ ////////////////////////////////// W. Scott Howard University of Denver showard@du.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:07:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: Nagarjuna 1 2 3 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I like this short piece very much. I don't have an mp3 player so I can't hear the rest of it, unfortunately. Nevertheless, if breathing is the body's violence it is also many other more positive things, as well, including, one might say, it's life force. Regards, Tom Savage Alan Sondheim wrote: Nagarjuna 1 2 3 You are singing no space, place, spatial distinctions cumber observation, the annihilated self. How so. Speak no speech, to be spoken to, undisting- uished distinction, in zazen in walking meditation, hearing is the space of the heard. My bones are ornaments, my neck Buddha's, my eyes Nagarju- na's. Pratyahara, withdrawal, without rasa, flavor, fervour. Breathing is the body's violence, meditate your corpse, you have it, you are singing no home, no home singing, you are singing no home singing, you are singing no home singing no home singing, you are singing no home singing http://www.asondheim.org/buddha.mp3 --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:56:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Patrick F. Durgin" Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: July 26th deadline! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Urgent Action Needed by July 26 on ADA Restoration Act of 2007 Ask Your Rep= resentative to Co-Sponsor the ADA Restoration Act=20 ACTION NEEDED: Call your Representative at 202-224-3121 (http://www.congres= s.gov) and urge him/her to co-sponsor the ADA Restoration Act when it is in= troduced on Thursday, July 26.=20 BACKGROUND: Seventeen years ago, Congress passed the Americans with Disabil= ities Act (ADA) with overwhelming bipartisan support. However, in recent ye= ars, a number of Supreme Court decisions have significantly reduced the pro= tections available to people with disabilities in employment settings. Cour= ts are quick to side with businesses and employers, deciding against people= with disabilities who challenge employment discrimination 97% of the time,= often before the person has even had a chance to show that the employer tr= eated them unfairly. Indeed, courts have created an absurd Catch-22 by allo= wing employers to say a person is =E2=80=9Ctoo disabled=E2=80=9D to do the = job but not =E2=80=9Cdisabled enough=E2=80=9D to be protected by the ADA. P= eople with conditions like epilepsy, diabetes, HIV, cancer, hearing loss, a= nd mental illness that manage their disabilities with medication, prostheti= cs, hearing aids, etc. =E2=80=94 or =E2=80=9Cmitigating measures=E2=80=9D = =E2=80=94 are viewed as =E2=80=9Ctoo functional=E2=80=9D to have a disabili= ty and are denied the ADAs protection from employment discrimination. Peopl= e denied a job or fired because an employer mistakenly believes they cannot= perform the job or because the employer does not want people with disabili= ties in the workplace are also denied the ADA=E2=80=99s protection from emp= loyment discrimination.=20 ADA RESTORATION ACT TO BE INTRODUCED JULY 26TH AAPD (American Associatiom of People with Disabilities) has been working wi= th a broad coalition of disability organizations who have helped Representa= tive James Sensenbrenner (R-WI) draft the ADA Restoration Act of 2007, whic= h would enable Americans with disabilities utilizing the ADA to focus on th= e discrimination that they have experienced rather than having to first pro= ve that they fall within the scope of the ADA=E2=80=99s protection. With th= is bill, the ADA=E2=80=99s clear and comprehensive national mandate for the= elimination of discrimination on the basis of disability will be properly = restored. Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD), who played a leading role in = passage of the ADA in 1990, will be an original co-sponsor, but we need mor= e Representatives to sign onto the bill when it is introduced to show the b= ipartisan support and importance of this measure. Your help is urgently needed to garner support and passage of the ADA Resto= ration Act of 2007. Call your Representative today and ask him/her to co-sp= onsor the bill. Sample Telephone Message for Use BEFORE JULY 26 seeking ORI= GINAL COSPONSORS: =E2=80=9CHi. My name is_______ and I live in ________. I would = like Representative______ to be an original cosponsor of the ADA Restoratio= n Act of 2007. Employers can say that I am =E2=80=9Ctoo disabled=E2=80=9D t= o perform my job, but =E2=80=9Cnot disabled enough=E2=80=9D to be protected= by the ADA. This is wrong! Restore the ADA and restore the rights my right= s Please be an original cosponsor of the ADA Restoration Act of 2007. If yo= u would be willing to be an original cosponsor of the ADA Restoration Act o= f 2007, please contact Representative Hoyers or Sensenbrenners offices. =E2= =80=9D=20 Sample Telephone Message for use AFTER JULY 26 seeking Cosponsors: =E2=80= =9CHi. My name is_______ and I live in ________. I need Representative_____= _ to cosponsor the ADA Restoration Act of 2007. Seventeen years ago, the AD= A was passed with overwhelming bipartisan support, yet people with disabili= ties are still being treated unfairly. People with disabilities are in a no= -win situation. Employers can say that I am =E2=80=9Ctoo disabled=E2=80=9D = to perform my job, but =E2=80=9Cnot disabled enough=E2=80=9D to be protecte= d by the ADA. This is wrong! Restore the ADA and restore my rights Please c= osponsor HR _____.=E2=80=9D=20 Source: AAPD=20 For more legislative issues, see: http://www.aapd.com/News/legislature/inde= xlegislature.php=20 ---------------------------------- www.da-crouton.com www.kenningeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 20:14:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Joe Brainard & the poetics of comics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Essay in progress at: http://garysullivan.blogspot.com Feedback appreciated. _________________________________________________________________ Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:19:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC/This Sat., July 28: Garden Party with Holford, Kirschenbaums, and Spurlock Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="EUC-KR" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward -------------------- =20 Garden Party with Olive Juice Music and Boog City =20 this Sat., July 28, 4:00 p.m., free =20 a summer series, in the Suffolk Street Community Garden Suffolk St., bet. Houston & Stanton sts. NYC =20 Estelle and Irwin Kirschenbaum interviewed on growing up in the Lower East Side in the thirties, forties, and fifties poems from=20 David Kirschenbaum =20 music from=20 Casey Holford and Preston Spurlock New this season, will be each musical act taking a poem from that day's poet(s) and turning it into a song for the event, and the poets turning son= g lyrics by each musical act into a poem. Curated and with introductions by Olive Juice Music head Matt Roth and Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum --------- =20 **Olive Juice Music http://olivejuicemusic.com/ Olive Juice Music is a D.I.Y. label, studio, and mail-order distributor based in New York City and interested in helping people who are in the developmental stages of trying to do something with their art. Olive Juice Music is not a traditional record label. The artists associated with Olive Juice take an active part in how their music is produced, financed, and marketed. They in turn receive more of the profits gained from the sales of their records directly, which is how it should be. The strength of Olive Juice relies upon the active participation of its members to share resource= s and help promote a communal spirit among everyone involved as well as claiming responsibility for taking their art to wherever they would like it to go. **Boog City http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 16th year and Eas= t Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme issues on baseball, women=A9=F6s writing, and Louisville, Ky. It hosts and curates two regular performance series--d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea's ACA Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where 5-13 local musical acts perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry Club, CBGB's, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; an= d Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. =20 *Performer Bios: **Casey Holford http://www.myspace.com/casey Casey Holford was raised on a diet of folk music and comic books in Massachusetts. Now, living in Brooklyn at age 27, he has recorded three self-released solo albums, and a recent 7 inch on RiYL records. He's in the bands Urban Barnyard, Dream Bitches, and Daouets, and he's also a prolific producer, helping to document his community by working on projects with fellow bands and songwriters. Casey has been called "the missing link between lesbian folk, DC punk, =A1=AF80s synth-pop, and classic rock," which sounds pretty awesome. **David Kirschenbaum http://www.boogcity.blogspot.com http://www.unpleasanteventschedule.com/DavidKirschenbaum.htm David Kirschenbaum=A1=AFs work has appeared in The Brooklyn Review Online, can = we have our ball back, Chain, Pavement Saw, and unpleasant event schedule, among others. He is the editor and publisher of Boog City, a New York City-based small press now in its 16th year and East Village community newspaper. =20 **Estelle and Irwin Kirschenbaum Estelle and Irwin Kirschenbaum grew up, and lived in, the lower east side during the thirties, forties, and fifties. They were married 200 feet away from the Suffolk Street Community Garden more than 53 years ago. **Preston Spurlock http://www.myspace.com/thesewingcircle Born and raised in South Florida, Preston Spurlock has been making lo-fi bedroom records for eight years. He started making a name for himself in th= e prolific NYC arts community in 2004, performing solo as the Sewing Circle, as well as in groups including the Elastic No-No Band and Huggabroomstik. Influenced equally by postpunk, bluegrass, avant-garde composition, and novelty music, Preston's rough-hewn songs are idiosyncratic and intimate. He's also a visual artist and short filmmaker. He will be your friend. Directions: F to Second Ave. =20 Next event in series, Sat. Aug. 25 Poetry from Jim Behrle and Bob Hershon and music from TBD =20 -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://boogcityevents.blogspot.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:04:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CARMIN Jim Subject: Copper Canyon Press exhibition and readings in Portland OR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Vital to Language and Living : 35 Years of Poetry at Copper Canyon Press"=20 Location, time=20 - Collins Gallery, 3rd Floor, Central Library, Multnomah County Library, 801 S.W. 10th Avenue, Portland, OR=20 Exhibition runs from July 16-August 26, 2007=20 Hours: Monday: 10 a.m.-6 p.m. Tuesday & Wednesday: 10 a.m.-8 p.m. Thursday-Saturday: 10 a.m.-6 p.m. Sunday: noon-5 p.m.=20 =20 About the exhibit=20 =20 Copper Canyon Press is a nonprofit publisher in Port Townsend, Washington, that believes poetry is vital to language and living. Poet Maxine Kumin has called the press "an evangelist for poetry," and poet Jorie Graham has labeled it "the finest independent publisher in America today." Founded in 1972 by Sam Hamill, Jim Gautney, Tree Swenson and Bill O'Daly, Copper Canyon Press has published poetry exclusively and has established an international reputation for its commitment to authors and its dedication to the poetry audience. Over these 35 years, Copper Canyon Press has published many writers who have called Oregon their home, including William Stafford, Primus St. John, Olga Broumas, Kim Stafford, Barry Lopez, Kenneth Hanson and Gary Snyder. This exhibition celebrates the 35th anniversary of Copper Canyon Press and contains numerous books, broadsides, manuscripts and correspondence borrowed from the press, the John Wilson Special Collections, and other collections. The opening reception was on July 21 where speakers included Michael Wiegers and Joseph Bednarik from Copper Canyon Press; Tree Swenson, Press co-founder and current President/Executive Director of the Academy of American Poets; and exhibition curator Jim Carmin. Readings in the Collins Gallery=20 Saturday, July 28, 2-3:30 p.m. : Copper Canyon Press poet PRIMUS ST. JOHN (Oregon)=20 Saturday, August 18, 2-3:30 p.m. : Copper Canyon Press poet DAVID LEE, (Utah) For more information, see http://www.multcolib.org/events/collins/coppercanyon.html or contact John Wilson Special Collections Librarian Jim Carmin at 503.988.6287. Jim Carmin John Wilson Special Collections Librarian Multnomah County Library 801 SW 10th Avenue Portland, OR 97205 jimc@multcolib.org phone: 503-988-6287 fax: 503-988-5226 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:54:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Joe Brainard & the poetics of comics In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable just thanks--didn't know creeley & brainard had collaborated on a comic. On 7/24/07 8:14 PM, "Gary Sullivan" wrote: > Essay in progress at: >=20 > http://garysullivan.blogspot.com >=20 > Feedback appreciated. >=20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!=A0 > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=3Dclub_hotmailtextlink1 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:40:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Cindy Sheehan re Rep Conyer's "No" & Running against Speaker Pelosi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18066.htm --- _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Wi= ndows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=3Den-us&ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_mig= ration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 03:46:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Bhaga MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Bhaga "Two lives there certainly are not; -- nevertheless an extra body is visible, by reason of the Shadow-Sickness." " Naga-tabi no Oto wo shitaite Mi futatsu ni Naru wa onna no Saru rikombyo. " ( Lafcadio Hearn ) What is foretold by gong is foreshadowed by memory of its telling. True, but emergence she said. She said true, but emergence. http://www.asondheim.org/bhaga.mp3 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:36:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: THIS FRIDAY In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MiPOesias presents [http://www.mipoesias.com] ~~ RICHARD PEABODY ~ NICOLE STEINBERG ~ CATE PEEBLES ~~ Friday, July 27, 2007 @ 7:00 PM ~~~ Richard Peabody, a prolific poet, fiction writer and editor, is an experienced teacher and important activist in the Washington , D.C. community of letters. He is the founder and co-editor of Gargoyle magazine and editor (or co-editor) of fourteen anthologies including Mondo Barbie, Mondo Elvis, Conversations with Gore Vidal, A Different Beat: Writings by Women of the Beat Generation, Alice Redux, Sex & Chocolate, Grace and Gravity: Fiction by Washington Area Women and Enhanced Gravity: More Fiction by Washington Area Women. He is the author of the novella Sugar Mountain, two short story collections, and six poetry collections. He is currently working on Electric Grace: Still More Fiction by Washington Area Women (forthcoming 2007). Peabody teaches at The Writer's Center and at Johns Hopkins University, where he has been presented the Faculty Award for Distinguished Professional Achievement. He lives and works in the Washington, D.C. area. You can find out more at: www.wikipedia.org and www.gargoylemagazine.com. Nicole Steinberg is the Co-Editor of LIT and Associate Editor of BOMB Magazine. Her poetry has appeared or is forthcoming in Gulf Coast, McSweeney's Internet Tendency, The Bedside Guide to No Tell Motel—Second Floor, PMS, Lumina, and Half Drunk Muse, and she writes for music webzine Axis of Live. She's the founder, curator and host of EARSHOT, a Brooklyn-based reading series dedicated to the work and presence of emerging writers in the New York City area. She lives in Queens, New York. Cate Peebles was born in Pittsburgh and currently lives in Brooklyn. She is a graduate of Reed College and is currently enrolled in the MFA program at the New School. She works as an editorial assistant on an oral biography of George Plimpton that will be published by Random House in 2008. ~~~~~~~~ STAIN BAR 766 Grand Street Brooklyn , NY 11211 (L train to Grand Street Stop, walk 1 block west) 718/387-7840 http://www.stainbar.com/ ~~~~~~~~ Hope you'll stop by! Amy King MiPO Host http://www.mipoesias.com **please forward** **apologies for cross-posting** ~~ --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:30:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Gitin Subject: Merle Hoyleman Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed post responding to Ron Caplan Ron, I met her once through you! Mid-sixties. Cheers, David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 09:31:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: ars poetica update Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ars poetica project continues to chug along like the little engine that could at: http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/ Poems appeared last week by: Ernie Wormwood, Celia Bland, Angela Carr, Bhanu Kapil, and Peter Boyle. Poems will appear this week by: Peter Boyle, Anny Ballardini, Skip Fox, and Lyn Lifshin. A new poem about poetry every day, by invitation only (but thanks for asking). Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 08:44:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: Bhaga In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Alan, What is foretold by gong is memory of its telling. Stupendous, just stupendous! Ciao, Murat On 7/25/07, Alan Sondheim wrote: > > Bhaga > > > "Two lives there certainly are not; -- nevertheless an extra body is > visible, by reason of the Shadow-Sickness." > > " Naga-tabi no > Oto wo shitaite > Mi futatsu ni > Naru wa onna no > Saru rikombyo. " > > ( Lafcadio Hearn ) > > What is foretold by gong is foreshadowed by memory of its telling. > True, but emergence she said. > She said true, but emergence. > > http://www.asondheim.org/bhaga.mp3 > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 13:30:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Iijima looking for Stevens, Tuntha-obas, Kapil, and Fisher emails Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Greetings, Brenda Iijima has asked me to post the following for her. best, David ------------ Hi all, I'm trying to contact James Thomas Stevens, Padcha Tuntha-obas, Bhanu Kapil, and Norman Fisher--please backchannel me if you have any or all of their emails. My email is Brenda@yoyolab.com thanks, Brenda ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:02:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Conners Subject: Conners Book Published Comments: To: aaron engle , aaron fagan , Aimee Parkison , "akutz@liftbridgebooks.com"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, akutz@liftbridgebooks.com, Amy Deblase , Ander@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, Monson , Ander Monson , Andrea@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, Brown , Andy McDermott , "Anne C. Coon" , "benis@bezeqint.net" , "benis@mcc.org.il" , "Benjamin Paloff"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, paloff@fas.harvard.edu, Bill Klingensmith , "Bill Millard"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, cwa02@rochester.rr.com, Bob Thurber , "Brandon Barr"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, barr@mail.rochester.edu, Brenda Pike , Brenna@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, Doran , "brianeder@hotmail.com" , "Caketrain Journal"@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, and Press , Cecily Iddings , Chris Donovan , Chris Kluge , Christine Boyka Kluge , Corey , Dan@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU, Albergotti , Dan Albergotti , Dan Sicoli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends,=20 Announcing the Publication of Of Whiskey & Winter Prose poems by=20 Peter Conners =20 Of Whiskey & Winter is the first full-length collection of prose poetry by = Peter Conners. In his Foreword to the book, Peter Johnson writes, "Of Whisk= ey & Winter joins the list of a few first books of prose poems that read li= ke a selected or greatest hits volume." =20 Naomi Shihab Nye writes, "Peter Conners' stunning prose poems are packed wi= th keen sensitivity, dreaminess, and wit. I love his time travels, the vibr= ant layering of image and detail. Try taking walks as you are reading this = book--the dazzle of landscapes, inner and outer, feel replenished and rich.= This is language and vision I want to come home to again and again." =20 Of Whiskey & Winter is available for order at [Amazon], [Barnes & Noble], [= Borders], or through your favorite independent bookstore. =20 =20 For more information on the book, author readings, and other goings-on visi= t: www.peterconners.com =20 Of Whiskey & Winter can also be purchased directly from the publisher, Whit= e Pine Press: www.whitepine.org =20 Thanks for your interest - hope you enjoy the book! =20 Peter =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:01:41 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: one more question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Anyone familiar with or former friends with Armin Landeck, the artist? One of the folks I am friends with thru lucasfilm says he is quite something and I just have no readily available info. Except for having seen a few prints from the thirties and a few works in museums I know little. Anyone privy and willing to inform me? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:55:49 -0700 Reply-To: editor@pavementsaw.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Subject: Holy cow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bored for a moment I looked up a few of our books on Abe Books some are listed for $350. What a bizarre thought as I wonder where my next filled gas tank will come from. I feel like I feel after talking to Will Alexander for too many hours. (by the way, why has no one talked about _Sunrise in Armageddon_ or any of the other more recently released material?) Somebody want to sell me copies of Chris Stroffolino's first book Oops, or Doug Goetsch's Wherever you are? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:24:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: when POETS get fucked over MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline It's good to BITCH! Whenever someone tells me it's not good to bitch I think of something to bitch about as soon as possible! It's healthy, it makes space for better things in your mind, right? So feel free to bitch about your own experiences of being a poet who was fucked over, it's good to air these things out. There are a few incidents that I'd like to cover on this topic of being fucked over as a poet, but let me start with the most recent one. Will Esposito invited me, Frank Sherlock, Ish Klein, Ryan Eckes, and Abbi Dion to have our poems about animal cruelty included in a Philadelphia gallery recently, organized around the evil Pennsylvania Amish and their puppy mills. It seemed great! We were excited! And Will and Abbi put together a beautiful handmade book of our poems to be displayed in the gallery. A couple weeks ago the gallery had a rather large private party with lots of wealthy patrons and local political figures (including Michael Nutter who is running for mayor, and there was also a liaison from the governor's office in Harrisburg). We poets were invited to bring one guest, and to read our poems. Once again, we were excited, right? It's a party! We get to read at a party! Reading at a party sounds like a great thing, right!? Well, the woman running the show met us and made a bit of a face. Were we that bad? Are we that crazy looking? I don't usually think we are, but maybe I'm biased? But then again my guest was a six and a half foot giant lesbian poet named Janet Mason who got drunk a little too fast and told this woman that she especially LOVED the little cheese-filled pea pods because they looked like fairy vaginas. Maybe that did it, who know? Frank Sherlock had his pink machine gun shirt on. Who knows? The drunker Ish and Abbi and I got the more glitter we applied to our faces and cleavage. But we weren't horrible people, clearly, just having fun for fuck's sake! Can't we have fun!? Must we sit as still as possible? But they were serving LOTS AND LOTS of FREE cocktails! How can you POSSIBLY explain handing out as many free cocktails as people want to drink and expect those people to sit as still as possible? If you've got cocktails, and glitter, and friends, it's a fun night. Just shut up and have fun, GEESH!! Will went up to the woman running the show more than once, and she kept making these weird "OH NO" faces when she walked away from him. She kept telling him "later," "later, you'll read later." "Later" and "Maybe" means No with this class of pricks. Where I come from no one has time for such games and just says NO! The working class NO should be a university class. Call it "HOW NOT TO BE A LYING ASSHOLE 101." But it was really irritating, all this! Oh, we can't have THE POETS at the microphone! We have REAL people here tonight! Yeah, and those REAL people were drinking lots and lots of martinis, just like the poets were doing! Man, and I was looking forward to badmouthing the Amish to a large audience FINALLY, the Amish being a group of fascists I grew up near and have hated for many years. At the end of the night I tried to get the microphone to work but it had been disabled, JUST IN CASE! So we read our poems out on the sidewalk to one another, and to the jazz musicians who were also not happy about the way they had been treated at the party. That jazz trio was SUPERB by the way! They did old standards, but with a flippant kind of sting! NICE! I'm glad to have been part of the gallery show because the subject of animal cruelty is something I care deeply about, but it was ridiculous to fear us at the microphone. WE WERE ONLY GOING TO READ THE POEMS THAT WERE ALREADY SITTING ON A PODIUM FOR EVERYONE TO READ ANYWAY! Well, actually I also wanted to complain at the microphone that they were serving chicken and crab cakes. Puppies are cute and sweet, but chickens and crabs deserve to die? I'm not judging meat eaters, especially because when I ate meat I ate enough of it for one lifetime, but it's wrong to have a benefit about animal cruelty and have little bits of animal roasted and toasted and stuck on the ends of fancy sticks. Well, and I did also want to call the Amish nazis at the microphone FINALLY! I've been waiting to do that all my fucking life! Listen, all I'm saying is DON'T FUCKING INVITE POETS AND EXPECT A TEA PARTY! Unless of course it's Billy Collins or Sharon Olds, both of whom seem content sitting as still as possible and boring the shit out of any room that wants to fall asleep. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:07:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: david baratier Subject: Re: Joe Brainard & the poetics of comics In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Creeley supplied the text first. Do I win something? If so, give it to me next weekend. see you then Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus, OH 43206 http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:45:02 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Jesse Glass Sound Files Up at Lichtensteiger.de Take a look, but MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ralph Lichtensteiger's wonderful website devoted to alternative music and Cage-related materials is a great place to visit anyway! Please begin the voyage at www.lichtensteiger.de with "Diary." Enjoy! Jess ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:44:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: notes on code: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed notes on code: study of huddling http://www.asondheim.org/huddled.mp4 Major modality: Relationship between modeling and codework: mapping within the subtext/substructure of the metric. Visual modeling: Visual as thetic - modality of happenstance (i.e. modeling becomes dependent on the physiology of visual bandwidth). Aural modeling: Visual with similar field, different spatial modality. How is the thetic (is that the correct word?) in relation to ideality? Does political economy depend on visual/aural physiology? Scanning as doubled text: coded software / parameterization of the real tending towards results which are residue (separate the results from the structure). But within the phenomenology of the real, the results and structure are inextricably tangled. Motion capture (mocap) - see scanning. In scanning, the static object is standard; in motion capture, the dynamic object. Think perhaps of the latter in terms of a second-order differential - doubled modeling of changes (1. through mocap; 2. through 'accelerated modeling'). The results: the 'code carapace' or chiten - Barrier/revelation code. (Older work: The relation of consciousness to structured systems: what are the manifestations of those systems?) Code as armor. Seeing and hearing seem 'tawdry,' unable to sustain the abstracted or philosophical weight placed upon them. To see or hear text philosophically churns on transparency; everything else stumbles. We turn to writing because it gets away from us to the extent that it's also reflective of deep abstraction, alien-code (all code is alien). All code is alien because it calls from elsewhere - or rather, doesn't call at all; it's as if someone created it, it's as if it wasn't created, not a bit of it. Which is the fundamental phenomenological status of code: some of it is created, but some of it isn't. === ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:31:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is great in its spirited and entertaining description! you go, grrrl! CA Conrad wrote: > It's good to BITCH! Whenever someone tells me it's not good to bitch I > think of something to bitch about as soon as possible! It's healthy, it > makes space for better things in your mind, right? So feel free to bitch > about your own experiences of being a poet who was fucked over, it's > good to > air these things out. > > There are a few incidents that I'd like to cover on this topic of being > fucked over as a poet, but let me start with the most recent one. > > Will Esposito invited me, Frank Sherlock, Ish Klein, Ryan Eckes, and Abbi > Dion to have our poems about animal cruelty included in a Philadelphia > gallery recently, organized around the evil Pennsylvania Amish and their > puppy mills. It seemed great! We were excited! And Will and Abbi put > together a beautiful handmade book of our poems to be displayed in the > gallery. > > A couple weeks ago the gallery had a rather large private party with > lots of > wealthy patrons and local political figures (including Michael Nutter > who is > running for mayor, and there was also a liaison from the governor's > office > in Harrisburg). We poets were invited to bring one guest, and to read > our > poems. Once again, we were excited, right? It's a party! We get to > read > at a party! Reading at a party sounds like a great thing, right!? > > Well, the woman running the show met us and made a bit of a face. > Were we > that bad? Are we that crazy looking? I don't usually think we are, but > maybe I'm biased? But then again my guest was a six and a half foot > giant > lesbian poet named Janet Mason who got drunk a little too fast and > told this > woman that she especially LOVED the little cheese-filled pea pods because > they looked like fairy vaginas. Maybe that did it, who know? Frank > Sherlock had his pink machine gun shirt on. Who knows? The drunker > Ish and > Abbi and I got the more glitter we applied to our faces and cleavage. > But > we weren't horrible people, clearly, just having fun for fuck's sake! > Can't > we have fun!? > > Must we sit as still as possible? But they were serving LOTS AND LOTS of > FREE cocktails! How can you POSSIBLY explain handing out as many free > cocktails as people want to drink and expect those people to sit as > still as > possible? If you've got cocktails, and glitter, and friends, it's a fun > night. Just shut up and have fun, GEESH!! > > Will went up to the woman running the show more than once, and she kept > making these weird "OH NO" faces when she walked away from him. She kept > telling him "later," "later, you'll read later." > > "Later" and "Maybe" means No with this class of pricks. Where I come > from > no one has time for such games and just says NO! The working class NO > should be a university class. Call it "HOW NOT TO BE A LYING ASSHOLE > 101." > > But it was really irritating, all this! Oh, we can't have THE POETS > at the > microphone! We have REAL people here tonight! > > Yeah, and those REAL people were drinking lots and lots of martinis, just > like the poets were doing! > > Man, and I was looking forward to badmouthing the Amish to a large > audience > FINALLY, the Amish being a group of fascists I grew up near and have > hated > for many years. > > At the end of the night I tried to get the microphone to work but it had > been disabled, JUST IN CASE! > > So we read our poems out on the sidewalk to one another, and to the jazz > musicians who were also not happy about the way they had been treated > at the > party. That jazz trio was SUPERB by the way! They did old standards, > but > with a flippant kind of sting! NICE! > > I'm glad to have been part of the gallery show because the subject of > animal > cruelty is something I care deeply about, but it was ridiculous to > fear us > at the microphone. WE WERE ONLY GOING TO READ THE POEMS THAT WERE > ALREADY > SITTING ON A PODIUM FOR EVERYONE TO READ ANYWAY! Well, actually I also > wanted to complain at the microphone that they were serving chicken > and crab > cakes. Puppies are cute and sweet, but chickens and crabs deserve to > die? > I'm not judging meat eaters, especially because when I ate meat I ate > enough > of it for one lifetime, but it's wrong to have a benefit about animal > cruelty and have little bits of animal roasted and toasted and stuck > on the > ends of fancy sticks. Well, and I did also want to call the Amish > nazis at > the microphone FINALLY! I've been waiting to do that all my fucking > life! > > Listen, all I'm saying is DON'T FUCKING INVITE POETS AND EXPECT A TEA > PARTY! Unless of course it's Billy Collins or Sharon Olds, both of whom > seem content sitting as still as possible and boring the shit out of any > room that wants to fall asleep. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:03:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? In-Reply-To: <46A8A23D.9050003@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The why's are below. Quick easy info here though – your ONE (pain-free) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY State Capitol 600 Dexter Avenue Montgomery, Alabama 36130 No time left to write!! Call: (334) 242 7100 Fax: 334-353-0004 Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the person answering who you are, where you live, and say something like ** "Please count me as having called to ask the Governor to halt the execution of Darrell Grayson." ** They WILL count you and you will find them courteous. They will not engage you in argument, nor will they expect or need you to elaborate. That is best handled in writing. FAX: 334 242 0937 Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they seem (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). ~ DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell Grayson, facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA testing. ~ Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was convicted by an all-white jury. ~ Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He practiced divorce law. ~~ BIO: Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven siblings in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in the ninth grade. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he was convicted and received the death penalty from an all white jury. He has been on Death Row at Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe depression, which he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of his mother brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write commentary and poetry and received his GED and Associate Science degree. In 1994 he became active in Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty, an organization founded and operated by Death Row inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He edits and assembles Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive equipment in the prison. Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, The Dead Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three chapbooks of poetry from prison. ~~ DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to question my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and for which I received the death penalty. My family, friends and acquaintances had never believed it, as I had no prior criminal record or reputation for violence. Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness who had been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual that night, came forward to state unequivocally that I could not have committed the crime as I was passed out cold on the floor due to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore, the statement from the witness that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacket that night when he left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry belonging to the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I always kept in my pocket. I was not present when the police found the jewelry. It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have my blood type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project determined that the tests used by the State would not have been able to identify my blood type, nor would they have been reliable. The argument made by the State that I could have ejaculated twice did not coincide with my sexual history, which told me that when under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculate once, let alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely rested on my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not retract it because I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight tells me that my confession was due to questionable evidence and suggested scenario presented to me, a suggestive personality, psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop tactics and my debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance withdrawal. [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert ] ~~ Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the Governor with an excellent summary of the injustices associated with this case. "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in fact, commit this crime. Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable to present his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated to the Supreme Court during oral argument, the method of funding or lack thereof in this case was tantamount to having my hands tied behind me..." -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 --------------------------------- Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:41 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: reJennifer Bartlett Subject: NEW Issue of SES Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Hello Friends, We have a new issue of SES hot off the press. Poets include Nancy Kuhl Michael Leong Changming Yuan Jason Fraley David Wolach Jennifer Firestone Maryrose Larkin Larissa Shmailo Translation of Dante by Anna Akhmatova Susanna Fry Kristin Abraham Carolyn Guinzio Meredith Quartermain Stephanie Strickland Gil Fagian www.saintelizabethstreet.org Also, check out the blog with essays on Tarn, Rukeyser, Eigner, schools of poetry, and the problem of the cool. _________________________________________________________________ http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:23:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: <46A8A23D.9050003@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't know if this can be validated, but Ginsberg quoted Kenneth Rexroth as saying the following:=20 "writers are terrible people, you don't want them in your house" I think I'd turn that around and say that it's sanctimonious, cloth-eared art gallery types who are the terrible people -- the turds in the punchbowl, as it were. on a semi-related note, I have an ongoing argument with my non-poet friends that the "Garrison Keillor" phenomenon does not really promote the appreciation of most poetry, just makes it safe for squares (i.e., Billy Collins or Sharon Olds, et al.) -- not that there's anything wrong with safe poetry, but it sounds like this vernissage featured art intended to push the envelope -- big-time social and artistic disconnect, apparently. tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Maria Damon Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:32 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over this is great in its spirited and entertaining description! you go, grrrl! CA Conrad wrote: > It's good to BITCH! Whenever someone tells me it's not good to bitch I > think of something to bitch about as soon as possible! It's healthy, it > makes space for better things in your mind, right? So feel free to bitch > about your own experiences of being a poet who was fucked over, it's=20 > good to > air these things out. > > There are a few incidents that I'd like to cover on this topic of being > fucked over as a poet, but let me start with the most recent one. > > Will Esposito invited me, Frank Sherlock, Ish Klein, Ryan Eckes, and Abbi > Dion to have our poems about animal cruelty included in a Philadelphia > gallery recently, organized around the evil Pennsylvania Amish and their > puppy mills. It seemed great! We were excited! And Will and Abbi put > together a beautiful handmade book of our poems to be displayed in the > gallery. > > A couple weeks ago the gallery had a rather large private party with=20 > lots of > wealthy patrons and local political figures (including Michael Nutter=20 > who is > running for mayor, and there was also a liaison from the governor's=20 > office > in Harrisburg). We poets were invited to bring one guest, and to read > our > poems. Once again, we were excited, right? It's a party! We get to=20 > read > at a party! Reading at a party sounds like a great thing, right!? > > Well, the woman running the show met us and made a bit of a face. =20 > Were we > that bad? Are we that crazy looking? I don't usually think we are, but > maybe I'm biased? But then again my guest was a six and a half foot=20 > giant > lesbian poet named Janet Mason who got drunk a little too fast and=20 > told this > woman that she especially LOVED the little cheese-filled pea pods because > they looked like fairy vaginas. Maybe that did it, who know? Frank > Sherlock had his pink machine gun shirt on. Who knows? The drunker=20 > Ish and > Abbi and I got the more glitter we applied to our faces and cleavage. > But > we weren't horrible people, clearly, just having fun for fuck's sake! > Can't > we have fun!? > > Must we sit as still as possible? But they were serving LOTS AND LOTS of > FREE cocktails! How can you POSSIBLY explain handing out as many free > cocktails as people want to drink and expect those people to sit as=20 > still as > possible? If you've got cocktails, and glitter, and friends, it's a fun > night. Just shut up and have fun, GEESH!! > > Will went up to the woman running the show more than once, and she kept > making these weird "OH NO" faces when she walked away from him. She kept > telling him "later," "later, you'll read later." > > "Later" and "Maybe" means No with this class of pricks. Where I come=20 > from > no one has time for such games and just says NO! The working class NO > should be a university class. Call it "HOW NOT TO BE A LYING ASSHOLE=20 > 101." > > But it was really irritating, all this! Oh, we can't have THE POETS=20 > at the > microphone! We have REAL people here tonight! > > Yeah, and those REAL people were drinking lots and lots of martinis, just > like the poets were doing! > > Man, and I was looking forward to badmouthing the Amish to a large=20 > audience > FINALLY, the Amish being a group of fascists I grew up near and have=20 > hated > for many years. > > At the end of the night I tried to get the microphone to work but it had > been disabled, JUST IN CASE! > > So we read our poems out on the sidewalk to one another, and to the jazz > musicians who were also not happy about the way they had been treated=20 > at the > party. That jazz trio was SUPERB by the way! They did old standards, > but > with a flippant kind of sting! NICE! > > I'm glad to have been part of the gallery show because the subject of=20 > animal > cruelty is something I care deeply about, but it was ridiculous to=20 > fear us > at the microphone. WE WERE ONLY GOING TO READ THE POEMS THAT WERE=20 > ALREADY > SITTING ON A PODIUM FOR EVERYONE TO READ ANYWAY! Well, actually I also > wanted to complain at the microphone that they were serving chicken=20 > and crab > cakes. Puppies are cute and sweet, but chickens and crabs deserve to=20 > die? > I'm not judging meat eaters, especially because when I ate meat I ate=20 > enough > of it for one lifetime, but it's wrong to have a benefit about animal > cruelty and have little bits of animal roasted and toasted and stuck=20 > on the > ends of fancy sticks. Well, and I did also want to call the Amish=20 > nazis at > the microphone FINALLY! I've been waiting to do that all my fucking=20 > life! > > Listen, all I'm saying is DON'T FUCKING INVITE POETS AND EXPECT A TEA > PARTY! Unless of course it's Billy Collins or Sharon Olds, both of whom > seem content sitting as still as possible and boring the shit out of any > room that wants to fall asleep. > > CAConrad > http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:40:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: sue walker Subject: Re: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? In-Reply-To: <380948.80401.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I phoned this morning, Sue Walker Alabama On Jul 26, 2007, at 9:03 AM, amy king wrote: > The why's are below. Quick easy info here though =96 your ONE =20 > (pain-free) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: > > > THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY > State Capitol > 600 Dexter Avenue > Montgomery, Alabama 36130 > > No time left to write!! > Call: (334) 242 7100 > Fax: 334-353-0004 > > Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the =20 > person answering who you are, where you live, and say something =20 > like ** "Please count me as having called to ask the Governor to =20 > halt the execution of Darrell Grayson." ** They WILL count you and =20 > you will find them courteous. They will not engage you in =20 > argument, nor will they expect or need you to elaborate. That is =20 > best handled in writing. > > FAX: 334 242 0937 > Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us > Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm > > Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they =20 > seem (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). > > ~ > > DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell =20 > Grayson, facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA =20 > testing. > > ~ > > Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was =20 > convicted by an all-white jury. > > ~ > > Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He =20= > practiced divorce law. > > ~~ > > > BIO: > > Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven =20 > siblings in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in =20 > the ninth grade. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he =20= > was convicted and received the death penalty from an all white =20 > jury. He has been on Death Row at Holman Prison in Atmore, =20 > Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe depression, which =20 > he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of his mother =20 > brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write =20 > commentary and poetry and received his GED and Associate Science =20 > degree. In 1994 he became active in Project Hope to Abolish the =20 > Death Penalty, an organization founded and operated by Death Row =20 > inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He edits and assembles =20 > Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive =20 > equipment in the prison. > > Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of =20 > insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, =20 > The Dead Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three =20 > chapbooks of poetry from prison. > > ~~ > > DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert > > After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to =20 > question my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and =20= > for which I received the death penalty. My family, friends and =20 > acquaintances had never believed it, as I had no prior criminal =20 > record or reputation for violence. > > Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness =20 > who had been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual =20 > that night, came forward to state unequivocally that I could not =20 > have committed the crime as I was passed out cold on the floor due =20 > to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore, the statement from the witness =20 > that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacket that night when he =20 > left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry belonging to =20 > the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I always =20 > kept in my pocket. I was not present when the police found the =20 > jewelry. > > It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have =20 > my blood type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project =20 > determined that the tests used by the State would not have been =20 > able to identify my blood type, nor would they have been reliable. =20 > The argument made by the State that I could have ejaculated twice =20 > did not coincide with my sexual history, which told me that when =20 > under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculate once, =20 > let alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. > > In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely =20 > rested on my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not =20 > retract it because I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight =20 > tells me that my confession was due to questionable evidence and =20 > suggested scenario presented to me, a suggestive personality, =20 > psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop tactics and my =20 > debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance withdrawal. > > [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/=20 > darrellgraysonexecutionalert ] > > ~~ > > Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the =20 > Governor with an excellent summary of the injustices associated =20 > with this case. > > "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in =20= > fact, commit this crime. > > Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable =20 > to present his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated =20 > to the Supreme Court during oral argument, the method of funding or =20= > lack thereof in this case was tantamount to having my hands tied =20 > behind me..." > > -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on =20 > Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:52:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: August Postcard Poetry Fest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Three lists of 31 folks each have been compiled for the inaugural August Po= etry Postcard Fest. Thanks to Catherine Daly and David-Baptiste Chirot for = agreeing to participate.=0A=0AWith Lana Ayers' help I have created a blog a= t http://www.poetrypostcards.blogspot.com to chronicle the project. There a= re some interesting poetry postcard links and I'd welcome other suggestions= . Backchannel if you prefer.=0A=0AThe more I think about this project, the = more I understand it to be quite compatible with what I think of as Organic= : Writing Spontaneously; Enhancing the sense of Interconnectedness; Writing= as a Discipline, etc. =0A=0ASome of the places represented include:=0A=0AS= laughter=0AKirkland, WA=0AWallingford, CT =0AWashington D.C. =0AMilwaukee= , WI =0AVictoria, BC =0ASeattle=0AIrondequoit, NY =0ACastlegar, BC =0AOakla= nd, CA =0ACollege=0A Station TX =0ALos=0A Angeles, CA =0ASammamish, WA =0A= Dordrecht, Netherlands =0AReykjavik, Iceland=0ANanaimo, BC=0ANYC=0ASan=0A F= rancisco, CA =0AWilton, NH=0AOttawa, Ontario, Canada=0AThe Villages FL =0A= =0A& other spots. I will try a little harder to get some folks from my home= town, Chicago, in the game.=0A=0AHappy August.=0A=0APaul Nelson=0A =0APau= l E. Nelson, M.A. =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican Sentences= =0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog=0A=0ASlaughter, WA 253.735.6328 or= 888.735.6328=0A=0A ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jUStin!katKO Subject: new address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline dear List please note the new address of me & Plantarchy / Critical Documents: 490 Angell St #309D Providence, RI 02906 USA thanks Justin Katko -- Critical Documents http://plantarchy.us ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:36:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? In-Reply-To: <380948.80401.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Amy, I just called. It was very quick and easy. Sadly the lines were not all tie= d up with phone calls. Diane di Prima > From: amy king > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:03:01 -0700 > To: > Subject: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? >=20 > The why's are below. Quick easy info here though =96 your ONE (pain-fre= e) > PHONE CALL will absolutely count: > =20 > =20 > THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY > State Capitol > 600 Dexter Avenue > Montgomery, Alabama 36130 > =20 > No time left to write!! > Call: (334) 242 7100 > Fax: 334-353-0004 > =20 > Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the person > answering who you are, where you live, and say something like ** "Please = count > me as having called to ask the Governor to halt the execution of Darrell > Grayson." ** They WILL count you and you will find them courteous. They = will > not engage you in argument, nor will they expect or need you to elaborate= . > That is best handled in writing. > =20 > FAX: 334 242 0937 > Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us > Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm > =20 > Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they seem > (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). > =20 > ~=20 > =20 > DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell Grayson= , > facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA testing. > =20 > ~=20 > =20 > Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was convicted by a= n > all-white jury. > =20 > ~ > =20 > Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He pract= iced > divorce law. > =20 > ~~ > =20 > =20 > BIO: > =20 > Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven siblin= gs in > a single parent household. He dropped out of school in the ninth grade. = At > age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he was convicted and received= the > death penalty from an all white jury. He has been on Death Row at Holman > Prison in Atmore, Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe depres= sion, > which he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of his mother > brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write commentar= y and > poetry and received his GED and Associate Science degree. In 1994 he beca= me > active in Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty, an organization foun= ded > and operated by Death Row inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He ed= its > and assembles Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive > equipment in the prison. > =20 > Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of > insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, The De= ad > Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three chapbooks of poe= try > from prison. > =20 > ~~ > =20 > DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert > =20 > After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to questio= n my > participation in the crime of which I was convicted and for which I recei= ved > the death penalty. My family, friends and acquaintances had never believe= d it, > as I had no prior criminal record or reputation for violence. > =20 > Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness who ha= d > been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual that night, came > forward to state unequivocally that I could not have committed the crime = as I > was passed out cold on the floor due to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore, t= he > statement from the witness that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacket t= hat > night when he left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry belongi= ng to > the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I always kept in= my > pocket. I was not present when the police found the jewelry. > =20 > It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have my bloo= d > type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project determined that the > tests used by the State would not have been able to identify my blood typ= e, > nor would they have been reliable. The argument made by the State that I = could > have ejaculated twice did not coincide with my sexual history, which told= me > that when under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculate once= , let > alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. > =20 > In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely rested o= n my > "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not retract it because = I > have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight tells me that my confession wa= s due > to questionable evidence and suggested scenario presented to me, a sugges= tive > personality, psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop tactics and= my > debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance withdrawal. > =20 > [Continued in detail here -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert ] > =20 > ~~ > =20 > Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the Govern= or > with an excellent summary of the injustices associated with this case. > =20 > "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in fact, > commit this crime. > =20 > Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable to pre= sent > his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated to the Supreme Cou= rt > during oral argument, the method of funding or lack thereof in this case = was > tantamount to having my hands tied behind me..." > =20 > -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 > =20 > =20 > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! = TV.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:43:04 -0400 Reply-To: pamelabeth@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pam Grossman Subject: Re: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable i just called now--said "looking at the facts of the case as they have been= presented to me, i'm requesting that the governor halt the execution and t= hat the case be reevaluated." they said "ok, thank you," and that was all. = now, i'll be watching to see what's next. -----Original Message----- >From: sue walker >Sent: Jul 26, 2007 10:40 AM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? > >I phoned this morning, > >Sue Walker >Alabama > > >On Jul 26, 2007, at 9:03 AM, amy king wrote: > >> The why's are below. Quick easy info here though =E2=80=93 your ONE = =20 >> (pain-free) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: >> >> >> THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY >> State Capitol >> 600 Dexter Avenue >> Montgomery, Alabama 36130 >> >> No time left to write!! >> Call: (334) 242 7100 >> Fax: 334-353-0004 >> >> Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the =20 >> person answering who you are, where you live, and say something =20 >> like ** "Please count me as having called to ask the Governor to =20 >> halt the execution of Darrell Grayson." ** They WILL count you and =20 >> you will find them courteous. They will not engage you in =20 >> argument, nor will they expect or need you to elaborate. That is =20 >> best handled in writing. >> >> FAX: 334 242 0937 >> Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us >> Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm >> >> Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they =20 >> seem (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). >> >> ~ >> >> DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell =20 >> Grayson, facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA =20 >> testing. >> >> ~ >> >> Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was =20 >> convicted by an all-white jury. >> >> ~ >> >> Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He =20 >> practiced divorce law. >> >> ~~ >> >> >> BIO: >> >> Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven =20 >> siblings in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in =20 >> the ninth grade. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he =20 >> was convicted and received the death penalty from an all white =20 >> jury. He has been on Death Row at Holman Prison in Atmore, =20 >> Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe depression, which =20 >> he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of his mother =20 >> brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write =20 >> commentary and poetry and received his GED and Associate Science =20 >> degree. In 1994 he became active in Project Hope to Abolish the =20 >> Death Penalty, an organization founded and operated by Death Row =20 >> inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He edits and assembles =20 >> Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive =20 >> equipment in the prison. >> >> Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of =20 >> insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, =20 >> The Dead Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three =20 >> chapbooks of poetry from prison. >> >> ~~ >> >> DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- >> http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert >> >> After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to =20 >> question my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and =20 >> for which I received the death penalty. My family, friends and =20 >> acquaintances had never believed it, as I had no prior criminal =20 >> record or reputation for violence. >> >> Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness =20 >> who had been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual =20 >> that night, came forward to state unequivocally that I could not =20 >> have committed the crime as I was passed out cold on the floor due =20 >> to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore, the statement from the witness =20 >> that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacket that night when he =20 >> left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry belonging to =20 >> the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I always =20 >> kept in my pocket. I was not present when the police found the =20 >> jewelry. >> >> It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have =20 >> my blood type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project =20 >> determined that the tests used by the State would not have been =20 >> able to identify my blood type, nor would they have been reliable. =20 >> The argument made by the State that I could have ejaculated twice =20 >> did not coincide with my sexual history, which told me that when =20 >> under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculate once, =20 >> let alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. >> >> In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely =20 >> rested on my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not =20 >> retract it because I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight =20 >> tells me that my confession was due to questionable evidence and =20 >> suggested scenario presented to me, a suggestive personality, =20 >> psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop tactics and my =20 >> debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance withdrawal. >> >> [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/=20 >> darrellgraysonexecutionalert ] >> >> ~~ >> >> Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the =20 >> Governor with an excellent summary of the injustices associated =20 >> with this case. >> >> "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in =20 >> fact, commit this crime. >> >> Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable =20 >> to present his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated =20 >> to the Supreme Court during oral argument, the method of funding or =20 >> lack thereof in this case was tantamount to having my hands tied =20 >> behind me..." >> >> -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on =20 >> Yahoo! TV. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:50:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Kyle Subject: I Have Imagined A Center // Wilder Than This Region: A Tribute to Susan Howe SOLD OUT Comments: To: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I=B9m thrilled that so many people have ordered copies of I HAVE IMAGINED A CENTER // WILDER THAN THIS REGION: A TRIBUTE TO SUSAN HOWE. I=B9ve already sold out of the book, but there are sixty on their way to Small Press Distribution. Please place your order there. Here=B9s the scoop just in case you missed it the first time around: New from Cuneiform Press I HAVE IMAGINED A CENTER // WILDER THAN THIS REGION: A TRIBUTE TO SUSAN HOWE Edited by Sarah Campbell With the intent of marking and celebrating Howe's years of teaching, the contributors to this volume were asked specifically to comment on her pedagogy and their experience of being her student at the State University of New York at Buffalo where she taught from 1988-2007. Contributors include: Nathan Austin, Sarah Campbell, Barbara Cole, Richard Deming, Thom Donovan, Logan Esdale, Zack Finch, Graham Foust, Benjamin Friedlander, Peter Gizzi, Jena Osman, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, Juliana Spahr, Sasha Steensen, and Elizabeth Willis. Edited by Sarah Campbell with an introduction by Neil Schmitz. 120 pp. 23x 13 cm. (2007) Edition limited to 250 copies. $10 plus $3.50 shipping. Order via. PayPal at www.cuneiformpress.com or send a check made out to: Cuneiform Press 528 Richmond Avenue Buffalo, NY 14222 Forthcoming in August: Ted Greenwald and Hal Saulson=B9s Two Wrongs Dan Featherston=B9s Clock Maker=B9s Memoir ______________ Kyle Schlesinger www.kyleschlesinger.com www.cuneiformpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:37:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: When poets get fucked over MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Safe poetry, dangerous poetry, I've never understood why people don't simply find poetry fun to read. Something to do, I guess, with high school. I didn't like poetry in high school, but I didn't like much of anything in high school. The problem, i think, is too much lame, middle brow poetry-- It's all kids hear. Post Columbine kids are unlikely to give a shit about anything Billy Collins has to say. I get fed up with poets, especially the ones with talent who do little to challenge themselves. The Billy Collins/Linda Pasten's of the world. They know what they're doing, and they're comfortable doing it. They've done what they do for so long, it surprises me that they're not bored sick by now. But they've found a comfort zone. Who'd want to risk all of that comfort? --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:38:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I live in a small midwest community and have just about given up trying to have poetry readings because people are not interested, and yes, this is Garrison Keilor country (really truly--he started his radio show in this county), and there is a certain kind of safety that most people (generalities, generatlies, I knoew) only can relate to--the drunken students who roam the bars downtown and the few criminal elements that live here are the only ones that kick up their heals and get down. I miss the idea of craziness, and perhaps even the reality of craziness. Sigh. Mary Kasimor CA Conrad wrote: It's good to BITCH! Whenever someone tells me it's not good to bitch I think of something to bitch about as soon as possible! It's healthy, it makes space for better things in your mind, right? So feel free to bitch about your own experiences of being a poet who was fucked over, it's good to air these things out. There are a few incidents that I'd like to cover on this topic of being fucked over as a poet, but let me start with the most recent one. Will Esposito invited me, Frank Sherlock, Ish Klein, Ryan Eckes, and Abbi Dion to have our poems about animal cruelty included in a Philadelphia gallery recently, organized around the evil Pennsylvania Amish and their puppy mills. It seemed great! We were excited! And Will and Abbi put together a beautiful handmade book of our poems to be displayed in the gallery. A couple weeks ago the gallery had a rather large private party with lots of wealthy patrons and local political figures (including Michael Nutter who is running for mayor, and there was also a liaison from the governor's office in Harrisburg). We poets were invited to bring one guest, and to read our poems. Once again, we were excited, right? It's a party! We get to read at a party! Reading at a party sounds like a great thing, right!? Well, the woman running the show met us and made a bit of a face. Were we that bad? Are we that crazy looking? I don't usually think we are, but maybe I'm biased? But then again my guest was a six and a half foot giant lesbian poet named Janet Mason who got drunk a little too fast and told this woman that she especially LOVED the little cheese-filled pea pods because they looked like fairy vaginas. Maybe that did it, who know? Frank Sherlock had his pink machine gun shirt on. Who knows? The drunker Ish and Abbi and I got the more glitter we applied to our faces and cleavage. But we weren't horrible people, clearly, just having fun for fuck's sake! Can't we have fun!? Must we sit as still as possible? But they were serving LOTS AND LOTS of FREE cocktails! How can you POSSIBLY explain handing out as many free cocktails as people want to drink and expect those people to sit as still as possible? If you've got cocktails, and glitter, and friends, it's a fun night. Just shut up and have fun, GEESH!! Will went up to the woman running the show more than once, and she kept making these weird "OH NO" faces when she walked away from him. She kept telling him "later," "later, you'll read later." "Later" and "Maybe" means No with this class of pricks. Where I come from no one has time for such games and just says NO! The working class NO should be a university class. Call it "HOW NOT TO BE A LYING ASSHOLE 101." But it was really irritating, all this! Oh, we can't have THE POETS at the microphone! We have REAL people here tonight! Yeah, and those REAL people were drinking lots and lots of martinis, just like the poets were doing! Man, and I was looking forward to badmouthing the Amish to a large audience FINALLY, the Amish being a group of fascists I grew up near and have hated for many years. At the end of the night I tried to get the microphone to work but it had been disabled, JUST IN CASE! So we read our poems out on the sidewalk to one another, and to the jazz musicians who were also not happy about the way they had been treated at the party. That jazz trio was SUPERB by the way! They did old standards, but with a flippant kind of sting! NICE! I'm glad to have been part of the gallery show because the subject of animal cruelty is something I care deeply about, but it was ridiculous to fear us at the microphone. WE WERE ONLY GOING TO READ THE POEMS THAT WERE ALREADY SITTING ON A PODIUM FOR EVERYONE TO READ ANYWAY! Well, actually I also wanted to complain at the microphone that they were serving chicken and crab cakes. Puppies are cute and sweet, but chickens and crabs deserve to die? I'm not judging meat eaters, especially because when I ate meat I ate enough of it for one lifetime, but it's wrong to have a benefit about animal cruelty and have little bits of animal roasted and toasted and stuck on the ends of fancy sticks. Well, and I did also want to call the Amish nazis at the microphone FINALLY! I've been waiting to do that all my fucking life! Listen, all I'm saying is DON'T FUCKING INVITE POETS AND EXPECT A TEA PARTY! Unless of course it's Billy Collins or Sharon Olds, both of whom seem content sitting as still as possible and boring the shit out of any room that wants to fall asleep. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:43:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Chace Subject: Re: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? In-Reply-To: <380948.80401.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Amy: Thanks very much for putting this out there. Like the others who have replied so far, I experienced absolutely no complications on the phone with the governor's office. The call took probably 30 seconds, max. Joel Chace On 7/26/07, amy king wrote: > The why's are below. Quick easy info here though =96 your ONE (pain-f= ree) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: > > > THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY > State Capitol > 600 Dexter Avenue > Montgomery, Alabama 36130 > > No time left to write!! > Call: (334) 242 7100 > Fax: 334-353-0004 > > Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the person = answering who you are, where you live, and say something like ** "Please co= unt me as having called to ask the Governor to halt the execution of Darrel= l Grayson." ** They WILL count you and you will find them courteous. They = will not engage you in argument, nor will they expect or need you to elabor= ate. That is best handled in writing. > > FAX: 334 242 0937 > Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us > Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm > > Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they seem (htt= p://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). > > ~ > > DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell Grayson= , facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA testing. > > ~ > > Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was convicted by a= n all-white jury. > > ~ > > Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He pract= iced divorce law. > > ~~ > > > BIO: > > Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven siblin= gs in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in the ninth grad= e. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he was convicted and rec= eived the death penalty from an all white jury. He has been on Death Row a= t Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe= depression, which he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of = his mother brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write = commentary and poetry and received his GED and Associate Science degree. In= 1994 he became active in Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty, an org= anization founded and operated by Death Row inmates. In 2000 he became its = chairman. He edits and assembles Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newslette= r, with primitive equipment in the prison. > > Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of insecur= ities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, The Dead Mule, = Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three chapbooks of poetry from= prison. > > ~~ > > DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert > > After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to questio= n my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and for which I re= ceived the death penalty. My family, friends and acquaintances had never be= lieved it, as I had no prior criminal record or reputation for violence. > > Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness who ha= d been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual that night, came= forward to state unequivocally that I could not have committed the crime a= s I was passed out cold on the floor due to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore,= the statement from the witness that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacke= t that night when he left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry be= longing to the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I alway= s kept in my pocket. I was not present when the police found the jewelry. > > It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have my bloo= d type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project determined that the= tests used by the State would not have been able to identify my blood type= , nor would they have been reliable. The argument made by the State that I = could have ejaculated twice did not coincide with my sexual history, which = told me that when under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculat= e once, let alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. > > In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely rested o= n my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not retract it becau= se I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight tells me that my confession= was due to questionable evidence and suggested scenario presented to me, a= suggestive personality, psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop t= actics and my debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance wit= hdrawal. > > [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellg= raysonexecutionalert ] > > ~~ > > Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the Govern= or with an excellent summary of the injustices associated with this case. > > "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in fact,= commit this crime. > > Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable to pre= sent his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated to the Supreme = Court during oral argument, the method of funding or lack thereof in this c= ase was tantamount to having my hands tied behind me..." > > -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! = TV. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: I Have Imagined A Center // Wilder Than This Region: A Tribute to Susan Howe SOLD OUT In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable While Kyle and Cuneiform are on a roll here, I also recommend Bill Berkson'= s recent book, Sudden Address - a selection of Bill's various lectures that often 'address' the intrigue of where painting and poetry cross mediums in that often difficult to address 'conversation'. Where often the makers of text are blind to painting and makers of visual work are blind to text, it'= s great to have someone (eyes/ears - paintings and books) working the transept. =20 Also a lovely edition, the typography, design. It's also nice to have another press aspiring to have great production values without being weirdl= y precious or de luxe, but with a focus on being publicly accessible and affordable. Not that Kyle is alone here, but he's obviously doing his homework and/or worked with good mentors among makers of books. Stephen V http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ =20 > I=B9m thrilled that so many people have ordered copies of I HAVE IMAGINED A > CENTER // WILDER THAN THIS REGION: > A TRIBUTE TO SUSAN HOWE. I=B9ve already sold out of the book, but there are > sixty on their way to Small Press Distribution. Please place your order > there. Here=B9s the scoop just in case you missed it the first time around: >=20 > New from Cuneiform Press >=20 > I HAVE IMAGINED A CENTER // WILDER THAN THIS REGION: > A TRIBUTE TO SUSAN HOWE > Edited by Sarah Campbell >=20 > With the intent of marking and celebrating Howe's years of teaching, the > contributors to this volume were asked specifically to comment on her > pedagogy and their experience of being her student at the State Universit= y > of New York at Buffalo where she taught from 1988-2007. >=20 > Contributors include: Nathan Austin, Sarah Campbell, Barbara Cole, Richar= d > Deming, Thom Donovan, Logan Esdale, Zack Finch, Graham Foust, Benjamin > Friedlander, Peter Gizzi, Jena Osman, Kyle Schlesinger, Jonathan Skinner, > Juliana Spahr, Sasha Steensen, and Elizabeth Willis. Edited by Sarah > Campbell with an introduction by Neil Schmitz. >=20 > 120 pp. 23x 13 cm. (2007) Edition limited to 250 copies. $10 plus $3.50 > shipping. > Order via. PayPal at www.cuneiformpress.com or send a check made out to: >=20 > Cuneiform Press > 528 Richmond Avenue > Buffalo, NY 14222 >=20 > Forthcoming in August: > Ted Greenwald and Hal Saulson=B9s Two Wrongs > Dan Featherston=B9s Clock Maker=B9s Memoir >=20 > ______________ > Kyle Schlesinger > www.kyleschlesinger.com > www.cuneiformpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:21:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: What If a Hundred Poets Phoned? In-Reply-To: <380948.80401.qm@web83309.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit hey i just called too, and i heard another phone ringing in the background as i spoke. i hope it was a poet from poetix! or anyone calling about darrell grayson. amy king wrote: > The why's are below. Quick easy info here though – your ONE (pain-free) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: > > > THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY > State Capitol > 600 Dexter Avenue > Montgomery, Alabama 36130 > > No time left to write!! > Call: (334) 242 7100 > Fax: 334-353-0004 > > Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the person answering who you are, where you live, and say something like ** "Please count me as having called to ask the Governor to halt the execution of Darrell Grayson." ** They WILL count you and you will find them courteous. They will not engage you in argument, nor will they expect or need you to elaborate. That is best handled in writing. > > FAX: 334 242 0937 > Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us > Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm > > Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they seem (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). > > ~ > > DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell Grayson, facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA testing. > > ~ > > Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was convicted by an all-white jury. > > ~ > > Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He practiced divorce law. > > ~~ > > > BIO: > > Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven siblings in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in the ninth grade. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he was convicted and received the death penalty from an all white jury. He has been on Death Row at Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe depression, which he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of his mother brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write commentary and poetry and received his GED and Associate Science degree. In 1994 he became active in Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty, an organization founded and operated by Death Row inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He edits and assembles Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive equipment in the prison. > > Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, The Dead Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three chapbooks of poetry from prison. > > ~~ > > DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert > > After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to question my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and for which I received the death penalty. My family, friends and acquaintances had never believed it, as I had no prior criminal record or reputation for violence. > > Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness who had been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual that night, came forward to state unequivocally that I could not have committed the crime as I was passed out cold on the floor due to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore, the statement from the witness that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacket that night when he left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry belonging to the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I always kept in my pocket. I was not present when the police found the jewelry. > > It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have my blood type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project determined that the tests used by the State would not have been able to identify my blood type, nor would they have been reliable. The argument made by the State that I could have ejaculated twice did not coincide with my sexual history, which told me that when under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculate once, let alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. > > In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely rested on my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not retract it because I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight tells me that my confession was due to questionable evidence and suggested scenario presented to me, a suggestive personality, psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop tactics and my debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance withdrawal. > > [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert ] > > ~~ > > Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the Governor with an excellent summary of the injustices associated with this case. > > "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in fact, commit this crime. > > Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable to present his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated to the Supreme Court during oral argument, the method of funding or lack thereof in this case was tantamount to having my hands tied behind me..." > > -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: The Factory Reading Series, August 23, 2007, Ottawa Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT span-o (the small press action network - ottawa) & The Ottawa Art Gallery present: The Factory Reading Series lovingly hosted by rob mclennan as a 14th anniversary above/ground press reading & chapbook launch with new publications & readings by: Amanda Earl (Ottawa) launching "Eleanor" Marcus McCann (Ottawa) launching "Heteroskeptical" & William Hawkins (Ottawa) launching "the black prince of bank street" Thursday, August 23, 2007; readings at 7:30pm, doors at 7 The Ottawa Art Gallery in the Arts Court Building (Nicholas & Daly Streets) author bios: Marcus McCann is an editor and writer at Capital Xtra. His poetry debuted in the The Antigonish Review at age 18. He is the editor of theonionunion.com, a selector for Bywords and a former selector for Yawp . With Nicholas Lea and Andrew Faulkner, he is the author-translator of Basement Tapes (The Onion Union, 2007), a chapbook of homolinguistic translations. As winner of the 2005 University of Ottawa 48-Hour Novella Writing Contest, his So Long, Derrida (UESA, 2006) was published by the university. Heteroskeptical (above/ground press, 2007) is his first solo poetry chapbook. Amanda Earl's poems appear most recently in ottawater.com 3.0, listenlight.net and the Ottawa Arts Review. Amanda is the managing editor of Bywords.ca and the Bywords Quarterly Journal. She blogs about literary stuff on amandaearl.blogspot.com and ottawapoetry.blogspot.com. She also writes fiction and has been published in anthologies with the word sex in them. She will be launching her poetry chapbook Eleanor (above/ground press). William Hawkins was born in Ottawa. After side trips to the west coast and Mexico, he resides in the capital, pursuing enlightenment or a reasonable alternative thereto. Hawkins has worked as a truck driver, cook, journalist and musician before settling on the taxi profession as a means of preserving integrity and ensuring near-poverty. His poetry has appeared in eight collections, including Shoot Low, Sheriff, Theyre Riding Shetland Ponies (with Roy MacSkimming, Ottawa ON: privately printed, 1964), Two longer poems: The Seasons of Miss Nicky, by Harry Howith; and Louis Riel, by William Hawkins (Toronto ON: Patrician Press, 1965), Hawkins (Ottawa ON: Nil Press, 1966), Ottawa Poems (Kitchener ON: weed/flower press, 1966), The Gift of Space (Toronto ON: New Press, 1970), The Madmans War (Ottawa ON: S.A.W. Publications, 1974) and his second volume of selected poems, Dancing Alone: Selected Poems 1960-1990 (Fredericton NB: Broken Jaw Press / cauldron books, 2005), as well as various anthologies and many other public places. He has recorded a CD of his best songs, also titled Dancing Alone. He will be launching the chapbook "the black prince of bank street" (above/ground press) for more information, contact rob mclennan at az421@freeenet.carleton.ca or check out http://www.ottawaartgallery.ca/factoryreadingseries/ the small press action network - ottawa (cleaning out yr literary clogs since 1996); thanks to The Ottawa Art Gallery for providing space and much love. next factory reading: December -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:20:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nico Vassilakis Subject: SUBTEXT READING: Peter Culley & Joseph Donahue Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Subtext continues its monthly reading series with readings by Peter Culley and Joseph Donahue at our new home at the Chapel Performance Space on August 1st 2007. Donations for admission will be taken at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Peter Culley lives south of Nanaimo BC & has written several books of poetry including: The Climax Forest, Hammertown and the forthcoming Age of Briggs & Stratton. His writings on art have appeared in numerous publications. His blog is at: http://mossesfromanoldmanse2.blogspot.com/ Joseph Donahue currently teaches at Duke University. Born in Texas, raised in Massachusetts, this ex-New Yorker and part-time Seattleite is the author of many books: Before Creation, Monitions of the Approach, Incidental Eclipse, World Well Broken, Terra Lucida, and In This Paradise. His poems have appeared most recently in Hambone, Talisman, First Intensity, Fence, LVNG, Canary, and Fascicle. For a sample poem: "A SERVANT OF GOD WITHOUT A HEAD V" - from http://versemag.blogspot.com/2004/08/new-joseph-donahue-poem.html The future Subtext schedule is: September 5, 2007 Lissa Wolsak (Vancouver, BC) & Robert Mittenthal October 3, 2007 Kathleen Fraser (Bay Area) & Crystal Curry November 7, 2007 Golden Handcuffs Review Reading - Seattle Issue Launch December 5, 2007 TBA January 2, 2008 TBA February 6, 2008 Hank Lazer (Tuscaloosa, AL) & TBA March 5, 2008 Steve McCaffery (Toronto/Buffalo) & TBA For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/~subtext More info at Nonsequitur web site: http://nseq.blogspot.com. Details on the Chapel at http://gschapel.blogspot.com SPECIAL THANKS to NONSEQUITUR for co-sponsoring this event. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:27:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Two Job Opportunities In-Reply-To: <694636bbd11077bbd9f198810551393b@usm.maine.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline sounds like they also need an events coordinator who is acquainted with temporary liquor licensing in the state of illinois? I thought that both of you would be good people to tell about the two job openings we have on poetryfoundation.org=97one for a journalist and the other for a serious poet who can also write and edit prose. We're looking for a journalist to be the associate editor and the poet to be the archive editor. Here are links to the job descriptions: Archive Editor http://poetryfoundation.org/foundation/AE.html Associate Editor http://poetryfoundation.org/foundation/AssociateEditor.html If you happen to know of qualified people, can you ask them to send their application directly to me at ewarn@poetryfoundaiton.org. Thanks for your help! Best, Emily --=20 All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:36:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Keeney Subject: Joe Ceravolo Transmigration Question In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In the flurry of JC activity last month I noticed that the poem "Transmigraion Solo" over at the official JC site - http://www.josephceravolo.com/poems.html#trans - uses the word "there" in the fourth line: TRANSMIGRATION SOLO See the black bird in that tree trying out the branches, puzzled. I am up there with you puzzled against the rain blinking my eyes. But in his book the word is "here." TRANSMIGRATION SOLO See the black bird in that tree trying out the branches, puzzled. I am up here with you puzzled against the rain blinking my eyes. I want to believe the book is right, since "here" provides a jump to the poem that is more typical of JC's unorthodox style. Or, I guess, the jump is already there in the last line. But "here" makes it sooner and more pronounced. Less SoQ if you will. Anyone know for sure the intended word? —Scott ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:25:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Governor Riley Issues Statement on Scheduled Execution of Darrell Grayson In-Reply-To: <46A8D80F.6090302@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MONTGOMERY - Governor Bob Riley issued the following statement on Thursday about the scheduled execution of Darrell Grayson: There has been much attention focused on the convicted killer, but seemingly ignored has been consideration of his victim, Mrs. Annie Laura Orr. She was a defenseless 86-year-old woman who lived alone and died a horrifying death almost 27 years ago. The killer's own numerous confessions, his own trial testimony where he himself admitted guilt, and the overwhelming physical evidence left a jury no doubt he perpetrated a cruel and monstrous crime upon a helpless elderly woman. Despite his multiple confessions and the physical evidence, the convicted killer filed several appeals after his conviction. All were denied by state and federal courts. His convictions of burglary and murder have been upheld at each level of the appellate process. No new evidence has come to light that would warrant either a reprieve or a commutation. DNA testing would neither prove nor disprove this killer's guilt. He was convicted of burglary and murder, not rape and murder, so legally DNA testing would not exonerate him even if there is no DNA evidence that he raped Mrs. Orr. Non-DNA evidence of the convicted murderer's guilt, however, is abundant. Barring intervention by the U.S. Supreme Court, this execution will go forward as scheduled. http://www.governorpress.alabama.gov/pr/pr-2007-07-26-01-execution_grayson.asp Maria Damon wrote: hey i just called too, and i heard another phone ringing in the background as i spoke. i hope it was a poet from poetix! or anyone calling about darrell grayson. amy king wrote: > The why's are below. Quick easy info here though – your ONE (pain-free) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: > > > THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY > State Capitol > 600 Dexter Avenue > Montgomery, Alabama 36130 > > No time left to write!! > Call: (334) 242 7100 > Fax: 334-353-0004 > > Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the person answering who you are, where you live, and say something like ** "Please count me as having called to ask the Governor to halt the execution of Darrell Grayson." ** They WILL count you and you will find them courteous. They will not engage you in argument, nor will they expect or need you to elaborate. That is best handled in writing. > > FAX: 334 242 0937 > Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us > Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm > > Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they seem (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). > > ~ > > DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell Grayson, facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA testing. > > ~ > > Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was convicted by an all-white jury. > > ~ > > Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He practiced divorce law. > > ~~ > > > BIO: > > Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven siblings in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in the ninth grade. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he was convicted and received the death penalty from an all white jury. He has been on Death Row at Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama since 1982. After some years of severe depression, which he describes as spending flat on his back, the death of his mother brought about the decision to better himself. He began to write commentary and poetry and received his GED and Associate Science degree. In 1994 he became active in Project Hope to Abolish the Death Penalty, an organization founded and operated by Death Row inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He edits and assembles Wings of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive equipment in the prison. > > Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, The Dead Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three chapbooks of poetry from prison. > > ~~ > > DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert > > After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to question my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and for which I received the death penalty. My family, friends and acquaintances had never believed it, as I had no prior criminal record or reputation for violence. > > Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness who had been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual that night, came forward to state unequivocally that I could not have committed the crime as I was passed out cold on the floor due to drugs and alcohol. Furthermore, the statement from the witness that my co- defendant had borrowed my jacket that night when he left and committed the crime, explained how jewelry belonging to the victim had supposedly been found in my wallet, which I always kept in my pocket. I was not present when the police found the jewelry. > > It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have my blood type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project determined that the tests used by the State would not have been able to identify my blood type, nor would they have been reliable. The argument made by the State that I could have ejaculated twice did not coincide with my sexual history, which told me that when under the influence, I would not even be able to ejaculate once, let alone twice. My total inebriation has never been in question. > > In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely rested on my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not retract it because I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight tells me that my confession was due to questionable evidence and suggested scenario presented to me, a suggestive personality, psychological intimidation with good cop/bad cop tactics and my debilitated physical and emotional state due to substance withdrawal. > > [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert ] > > ~~ > > Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the Governor with an excellent summary of the injustices associated with this case. > > "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in fact, commit this crime. > > Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable to present his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated to the Supreme Court during oral argument, the method of funding or lack thereof in this case was tantamount to having my hands tied behind me..." > > -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July 16, 2007 > > > --------------------------------- > Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV. > --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:33:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Governor Riley Issues Statement on Scheduled Execution of Darrell Grayson In-Reply-To: <464881.9233.qm@web83313.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > Barring intervention by the U.S. Supreme Court, this MURDER will go forward > as scheduled. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:39:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: **SPAM** when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 25, 2007, at 9:24 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > Listen, all I'm saying is DON'T FUCKING INVITE POETS AND EXPECT A TEA > PARTY! Unless of course it's Billy Collins or Sharon Olds, both of > whom > seem content sitting as still as possible and boring the shit out of > any > room that wants to fall asleep. Hey, wait! Sharon Olds kissed me one time! (I've never met Billy Collins) But I did really enjoy the rant, CA > > L.A.C. Bowering, George Up, up and away. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:40:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: HOW WE LEARN: Pedagogical Factory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit HOW WE LEARN: Pedagogical Factory, Exploring strategies for an educated city July 22-September 23, 2007 Hyde Park Art Center 5020 S. Cornell Ave Chicago, IL http://www.hydeparkart.org http://www.hydeparkart.org/exhibitions/2007/07/the_pedagogy_project.php **Saturday 7.28, 1-3pm** How We Learn: Building an Educated City w/ Mess Hall, Platypus, Free Geek, Chicagoland/Calument Underground Railroad Efforts, Bronzeville Historical Society, Chicago Women's Health Clinic, African Diaspora, The Odyssey Project, and more. Adults Need Quality, Interesting, Creative, Critical Educational Opportunities Outside of the Job and the Academy! You are invited to join a discussion with a panel featuring representatives of local educational initiatives committed to cultural learning for adults in Chicago. These organizations and projects operate outside of traditional paradigms such as ESL/GED and professional skill development. We hope to highlight a range of important work happening in the city and encourage new participation in those efforts where it is appropriate. Additionally, by showcasing innovative cultural education for adults, we will gain a better sense what possibilities are currently available to adults seeking stimulation outside of traditional educational settings and better understand what this means for all of our efforts and our city. **Wednesday 8.1, 6-8pm** How We Remember: Oral Historians w/ Stephen Haymes and other oral historians What is the role of oral history in contemporary social movements? Come hear about new oral history projects and bring ideas or stories about your own. Stephen Haymes is the author of the book Race, Culture and the City: Pedagogy for Black Urban Struggle, published by State University of New York Press. In 1996, his book received a national award from the Gustavus Myers Center at Boston College for "The Outstanding Book on the Subject of Human Rights in North America". He is currently working on a new book that will be published by Roman and Littlefield Publishers, titled Pedagogy of Our Ancestors: The Existential Wisdom of African-American Slave Culture. **Saturday 8.4, 11:00am** How We Move Workshop: Meredith Haggerty & Lavie Raven How We Move will be a workshop in movement and how it relates to social movements. The workshop leaders have been brought together by the University of Hip Hop, which has been doing movement education in the city for over 15 years. Contact haggerty@uchicago.edu for more information. How We Make a Pedagogical Sketchbook w/ Stockyard Institute The Pedagogical Sketchbook began as an obsessive compilation of ideas and lessons, that stood in stark contrast to the typical offerings most adolescents were exposed to in their school art space. The project which now includes an audio curriculum is growing as artists, thinkers, map makers, socialites, ex students, construction workers, priests, addicts and ideologues to name only few have joined in making contributions to what will be presented as a new high school art textbook. The project will be published on demand and developed as an online resource. One copy of the project will be sent to every high school art department in Illinois. factory07 @ gmail.com. Jim Duignan is an artist, educator and activist and drives the collaborative artist project Stockyard Institute. Duignan directs Visual Arts Education at DePaul University in Chicago and works as an advisor to AREA Chicago: Art, Research, Education & Activism. http://www.stockyardinstitute.org **Saturday 8.11** How We Peoples Make a People's Atlas of Chicago w/ Daniel Tucker/Dave Pabellon aka The Speculators Free Food Day 12-3pm Calling all mapmakers, radical historians, informal researchers and citizens with good memory! How can we use maps to remember? What do we want to remember? Notes for a People's Atlas presents maps of the blank outline of the political border of the city. For this event we will get together and look at a map archive that was created on a recent trip to Zagreb, Croatia by AREA Chicago editors Daniel Tucker and Dave Pabellon. The other map archive is AREA's ongoing collection of Chicago maps by local artists, educators, students and activists. Please come and add your map to the archive! Because maps are never finished and only tell part of a story. Because they are visual tools for sharing with others. Because they can be produced by many people and combined together to tell stories about complex relationships. Because power exists in space, struggle exists in space, and we exist in space. Because we cannot we know where we are going if we don't know where we are from. How We Make a Pedagogical Sketchbook w/ Stockyard Institute (see August 4 description) 11-1pm **Wednesday 8.15, 6-8pm** How We Grow: Self-Education & Urban Farming Gathering w/ Baltimore visiting artists Scott Berzofsky, Dane Nester and Nicholas Wisniewski. Calling All Farmers, Gardeners, Ecologists and Interested Parties! Lets Hear About Baltimore and Then Talk About Chicago! We will prepare a powerpoint slide show of the urban farming project we are working on in Baltimore which can serve as a point of departure for a conversation on many issues, from self-education and urban farming to land reclamation and community-based urban planning. **Saturday 8.25** How We Teach w/ Various Artists, Activists and Educators An experimental forum about the act of teaching. Get in touch with factory07@gmail.com to get involved. More details TBA. 1-3pm How We Make Educational Posters w/ Watie White 11-1pm **Saturday 9.1** How We Think Walking Tour: In Honor of John Dewey 11-1pm The philosopher John Dewey (1859-1952) fought for "civil and academic freedom, founded the Progressive School movement." A resident of Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood, Dewey published one of his most important works of educational theory "How We Think" in 1910. The study deals primarily with the concept of thought training, and its place in school environments. Today we will have a walking presentation and discussion about Dewey's impact on the field of education and visit some important sites in the neighborhood where he lived and worked. Contact factory07 @ gmail.com if you know a lot about Dewey and would like to help lead the tour. **Wednesday 9.5, 6-8pm** How We Celebrate Peoples History w/ Josh MacPhee of JustSeeds Come Hear About One Amazing Effort To Make Hidden and Radical History Public! It Is A Street Curriculum! The Celebrated People's History poster series is an on-going project producing posters that focus around important moments in "people's history." These are events, groups, and individuals that we should celebrate because of their importance in the struggle for social justice and freedom, but are instead buried or erased by dominant history. Posters celebrate important acts of resistance, those who fought tirelessly for justice and truth, and the days on which we can claim victories for the forces of freedom. These posters are posted publicly (i.e. wheatpasted on the street, put up in peoples' home and storefront windows, and used in classrooms) in an attempt to help generate a discussion about our radical past, a discussion that is vital in preparing us to create a radical future. The project has also built a loose network of artists interested in creating radical public art as well as showcased the work of lesser known artists that want to create culture that is functional, carries a social message, and doesn't get buried at the bottom of the heap of the mainstream art world. http://www.justseeds.org/artists/celebrate_peoples_history/. Josh MacPhee is an artist, curator and activist currently living in Troy, NY. His work often revolves around themes of radical politics, privatization and public space. His second book Realizing the Impossible: Art Against Authority (AK Press, co-edited with Erik Reuland) was just published. He also organizes the Celebrate People's History Poster Series and is part of the political art collective Justseeds.org. How We Make a Pedagogical Sketchbook w/ Stockyard Institute (see August 4 description) **Saturday 9.8, 1-3pm** How We Build Come discuss the state of architecture/design education. Where has it been and where is it going? We often discuss the ways in which the built physical environment affects us, but how does it get built in the first place? What is the relationship between architecture education and the built environment? How does what gets taught to children, adults and professionals impact the designed world? And how can we rethink it? To get involved in the discussion contact Charles Vinz charles.vinz @ gmail.com or just show up! **Saturday 9.15** How We Make a Disorientation Guide to Our University w/ Local University Activists 1-3pm In recent years many students and professors have turned their research interests towards the university itself. They have considered how to translate the activism and critique that is generally encouraged and supported when projected outward on the world, into a more inward practice that identifies the particular political economy of today's university system. What role and responsibilities do universities have in the urban spaces they inhabit, in the knowledge economies they facilitate, in the concepts about which they produce research, and the contracts they receive and provide? Today we will work with students from several local universities, including Northwestern and University of Chicago, to talk about one of the works in the Pedagogical Factory exhibit which displays such self-critical research about the US academic system in the form of a "Disorientation Guide" to UNC Chapel Hill. We will use this work as a starting point to discuss the possibilities of creating similar initiatives in Chicago academic contexts. Get in touch with factory07 @ gmail.com if you are interested in participating. **Saturday 9.22** How we use AREA Chicago as a pedagogical experiment and also move towards an independent political and cultural education network in Chicago. In this final event of the series we will reflect on the work and conversations of the Pedagogical Factory Exhibit and the programs of the How We Learn series. We will look towards the upcoming "How We Learn" issue#5 of AREA Chicago and make plans for using the project in new and different ways as a freely distributed curriculum about critical culture in Chicago. Come and participate in the discussion and perhaps we will all build a school together. Topics to be discussed might include: Militant research, public curriculum, the limits of popular education, the drawbacks of critical pedagogy, and school versus the street, the street versus the art gallery, the page versus the screen, and why binary relationships have gotten us down. A short presentation about the past/present/future of AREA Chicago will be followed by group discussion and brainstorming. Please come with the best old ideas or the new fresh ideas. **Unless otherwise noted** All events will take place at HPAC /Wednesday events start at 6pm and Saturday events start at 1pm-3pm/ All events are 2 hours long/All events are in Gallery 1. The Art Center is easily accessible by public transportation: Take the #6 Jackson Park Express to E. Hyde Park Blvd. and Cornell Ave.; walk half a block north to 5020 S. Cornell Ave. Or, take the #15 Jeffrey or #28 Stony Island to E. Hyde Park Blvd. and Lake Park Ave.; walk one block east and half a block north to 5020 S. Cornell Ave. For detailed maps and schedules, visit the CTA's website at http://www.transitchicago.com. You also can take the Metra Electric to the 51st/53rd Street stop. Exit at 51st Street, walk half a block east and turn left (north) on Cornell to 5020 S. Cornell Ave. Organized by The Stockyard Institute http://www.stockyardinstitute.org Public Programs by AREA Chicago Art/Research/Education/Activism http://www.areachicago.org ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:43:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Governor Riley Issues Statement on Scheduled Execution of Darrell Grayson Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The Governor's statement is a precis of the State of Alabama's December = 2006 response to Darrell Grayson's petition for STR DNA testing. That = document is merciless. Whether DNA testing might prove Darrell Grayson = innocent of rape, or implicate a third unidentified party, is considered = moot. Because he is sentenced to death for burglary and murder, whether = or not he committed rape is considered irrelevant by the State today, = though a conviction that he did indeed commit rape surely informed the = severity of his sentence. Surely, especially in the case of a developing = technology (and Grayson has been in prison for 27 years, since he was 19, = I think), there should always be a right to testing. And there should = always be a right to exonerate a person convicted of any crime he or she = did not commit, and they should have this satisfaction before they die. = =20 As to the surreal experience of calling the Governor's office to request = that the State of Alabama does not kill a man today, well, that's reality. Mairead >>> amyhappens@yahoo.com 07/26/07 3:25 PM >>> MONTGOMERY - Governor Bob Riley issued the following statement on Thursday = about the scheduled execution of Darrell Grayson: There has been much = attention focused on the convicted killer, but seemingly ignored has been = consideration of his victim, Mrs. Annie Laura Orr. She was a defenseless = 86-year-old woman who lived alone and died a horrifying death almost 27 = years ago. The killer's own numerous confessions, his own trial testimony = where he himself admitted guilt, and the overwhelming physical evidence = left a jury no doubt he perpetrated a cruel and monstrous crime upon a = helpless elderly woman.=20 Despite his multiple confessions and the physical evidence, the convicted = killer filed several appeals after his conviction. All were denied by = state and federal courts. His convictions of burglary and murder have = been upheld at each level of the appellate process.=20 No new evidence has come to light that would warrant either a reprieve or = a commutation. DNA testing would neither prove nor disprove this killer's = guilt. He was convicted of burglary and murder, not rape and murder, so = legally DNA testing would not exonerate him even if there is no DNA = evidence that he raped Mrs. Orr. Non-DNA evidence of the convicted = murderer's guilt, however, is abundant. Barring intervention by the U.S. = Supreme Court, this execution will go forward as scheduled. =20 http://www.governorpress.alabam= a.gov/pr/pr-2007-07-26-01-execution_grayson.asp Maria Damon wrote: hey i just called too, and i heard = another phone ringing in the=20 background as i spoke. i hope it was a poet from poetix! or anyone=20 calling about darrell grayson. amy king wrote: > The why's are below. Quick easy info here though =E2=80=93 your ONE = (pain-free) PHONE CALL will absolutely count: > =20 > =20 > THE HONORABLE GOVERNOR BOB RILEY > State Capitol > 600 Dexter Avenue > Montgomery, Alabama 36130 > =20 > No time left to write!! > Call: (334) 242 7100 =20 > Fax: 334-353-0004 > =20 > Calling is a very easy process. Call (334) 242-7100. Tell the person = answering who you are, where you live, and say something like ** "Please = count me as having called to ask the Governor to halt the execution of = Darrell Grayson." ** They WILL count you and you will find them courteous. = They will not engage you in argument, nor will they expect or need you to = elaborate. That is best handled in writing. > =20 > FAX: 334 242 0937 > Website: http://www.governor.state.al.us=20 > Email form: http://www.governor.state.al.us/contact.htm=20 > =20 > Darrell "confessed" but, confessions are not always what they seem = (http://phadp.org/falseconfessions.html). > =20 > ~=20 > =20 > DNA evidence is available which has never been tested. Darrell = Grayson, facing execution, has been denied the right to have DNA testing. > =20 > ~=20 > =20 > Darrell Grayson, as a young, poor, African-American, was ~ > =20 > Darrell's trial attorney had no experience in capital cases. He = practiced divorce law. > =20 > ~~ > =20 > =20 > BIO: > =20 > Darrell B. Grayson was raised in Montevallo, Alabama with eleven = siblings in a single parent household. He dropped out of school in the = ninth grade. At age 19, and with no prior criminal history, he was = convicted and received the death penalty from an all white jury. He has = been on Death Row at Holman Prison in Atmore, Alabama since 1982. After = some years of severe depression, which he describes as spending flat on = his back, the death of his mother brought about the decision to better = himself. He began to write commentary and poetry and received his GED and = Associate Science degree. In 1994 he became active in Project Hope to = Abolish the Death Penalty, an organization founded and operated by Death = Row inmates. In 2000 he became its chairman. He edits and assembles Wings = of Hope, the Project Hope newsletter, with primitive equipment in the = prison. > =20 > Darrell Grayson's poetry, which he describes as "a contagion of = insecurities," has appeared in Axis of Logic, Right Hand Pointing, The = Dead Mule, Wings of Hope, and elsewhere. He has written three chapbooks of = poetry from prison. > =20 > ~~ > =20 > DARRELL GRAYSON'S STATEMENT -- > http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellgraysonexecutionalert =20 > =20 > After 20+ years on death row and acceptance of guilt, I came to = question my participation in the crime of which I was convicted and for = which I received the death penalty. My family, friends and acquaintances = had never believed it, as I had no prior criminal record or reputation for = violence. > =20 > Six years ago my belief in my guilt was shaken because a witness who = had been with my co-defendant, myself and another individual that night, = came forward to state unequivocally that I could not have committed the = crime as I was passed out cold on the floor due to drugs and alcohol. = Furthermore, the statement from the witness that my co- defendant had = borrowed my jacket that night when he left and committed the crime, = explained how jewelry belonging to the victim had supposedly been found in = my wallet, which I always kept in my pocket. I was not present when the = police found the jewelry. > =20 > It had never made sense to me how I, a non-secretor, could have my = blood type identified from the semen. The Innocence Project determined = that the tests used by the State would not have been able to identify my = blood type, nor would they have been reliable. The argument made by the = State that I could have ejaculated twice did not coincide with my sexual = history, which told me that when under the influence, I would not even be = able to ejaculate once, let alone twice. My total inebriation has never = been in question. > =20 > In the eyes of my attorneys and the state my guilt had largely rested = on my "confession" and that I never retracted it. I did not retract it = because I have no knowledge of that night. Hindsight tells me that my = confession was due to questionable evidence and suggested scenario = presented to me, a suggestive personality, psychological intimidation with = good cop/bad cop tactics and my debilitated physical and emotional state = due to substance withdrawal. > =20 > [Continued in detail here -- http://dalewisely.googlepages.com/darrellg= raysonexecutionalert ] > =20 > ~~ > =20 > Richard Bell, Darrell's original trial attorney, has written the = Governor with an excellent summary of the injustices associated with this = case. > =20 > "...there is great question as to whether Darrell Grayson did, in = fact, commit this crime. > =20 > Darrell Grayson was caught in the trap of poverty and was unable to = present his defense to the jury in this case. As I once stated to the = Supreme Court during oral argument, the method of funding or lack thereof = in this case was tantamount to having my hands tied behind me..." > =20 > -from Attorney Richard Bell to Gov. Riley, July k out tonight's top = picks on Yahoo! TV.=20 > =20 =20 --------------------------------- Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're = surfing.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:37:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Well, I'm glad for all the support for this topic, but I really wish those of you who back-channeled me would tell those stories you told me to the List, as everyone else would like to hear them as much I did. There seem to be so many incidents of being fucked over as a poet in my life, but I'm sad to report (very sad actually) that in most cases it was from other poets. At least one of whom is on this List. No, two of them actually, one was sort-of a friend, the other I never trusted. I don't feel the need to Out scoundrels since I live by my grandmother's advice that the honest man's best revenge is patience. Besides, they both have new books out this year, and I don't want to be accused of cock-blocking another poet's publishing joys. Instead let me talk about being fucked over a few years ago by The Blue Rose Moon Theater Company. The director and producers were looking for material on Elvis for a big show they were putting together for the Philadelphia Fringe Festival. I answered the call for submissions and gave them pages from my forthcoming book "advanced ELVIS course" and they enthusiastically used all the pages I gave them. That made me happy of course! I had never seen my work performed on stage before so it was very exciting for me! There were two other writers, but the bulk of the lines, the stage-settings, costumes, acting, etc., came from my pages of text. For some reason I couldn't make opening night, but I knew all the shows had sold out, and it was getting great press and feedback. On the second night I showed up in a terrific mood to a packed house, all chairs filled, and some folks were even sitting on the floor. But yet there were no programs. I asked the director where the programs were. He said that the programs had several typos in the one actress's bio (the one playing Priscilla Presley), and that they weren't using them because she threw a major tantrum about the typos. NOT USING THEM!? The programs were the ONLY place where the names of the writers appeared. We had not been mentioned in the newspapers, or online, or anywhere. We were literally invisible to the outside world, but that didn't bother me, as I was certain anyone who went to the show would see who we were in the program. Were the programs handed out on opening night I asked the director? No. It had been reported, and told to me personally that the mayor had attended that opening night show, as did the police commissioner, both of them major Elvis fans. Who was taking credit for all this? The actors, and director, and producers. Yet ALL THE WORK they were doing made them mere satellites to orbit the work of the writers. To say the least my terrific mood ended. If these people knew how to write they would have done so themselves! And I was suddenly feeling crazy with anger! The director and I had a screaming match, and I was told later that some of the audience thought it was part of the show, yelling about Elvis, the mayor, the vain actress playing Priscilla. I demanded that the programs be handed out or that I was going to make a scene. I was already making a scene the director said, so it was too late to NOT make a scene. Fine then, I'll make a BIGGER SCENE! Finally he gave in. The programs were brought out, and with them came the actress in her Priscilla costume to take a shot at yelling at me. She really DID NOT care that the writers were being ignored. It blew my mind that these people simply didn't care. The injustice I felt, and yelled about feeling penetrated none of them. It was STUNNING to witness this level of selfishness. Finally the director instructed someone to hand out programs to everyone in the audience. When I opened the program we three writers were mentioned by name, period. Nothing else. I don't remember the names of the other two writers because I didn't keep the program, the only place where our names appeared. The bios we writers had submitted to the director had been cut at some point. The actors had paragraphs explaining every fucking school they had ever attended, and their awards, etc., etc., oh boy I was angry. What was the point of the program to me with no information? We writers were truly made invisible. And the other two writers had been there the night before and -- TO MY HORROR AND DISAPPOINTMENT -- didn't make a fuss about there being no program handed out. There's nothing worse in a situation like this than being only one of three who actually gives a damn! This is another reason I don't remember the names of the other two writers because I feel they were chumps the both of them, not caring, and not making the program be handed out the night before! What a rotten bunch of people! But they did a good job on stage with the material. Although I have to say that the material I wrote was writing I worked very hard on, believed in, continue to believe in. They on the other hand were simply acting, and it was clear it didn't mean much to them, just another job. Just another ping for the point system of a resume. Later the director e-mailed me and I told him to NEVER contact me again. He had a pain of guilt, or something, finally, and I told him the guilt was probably good for him. The guilt was real I told him. He wasn't needing to act the part, he was it. And good luck in Hell. Oh, and they sold out every single show, made a pile of money, but we writers saw none of that either. Did we have a contract? No. That's the problem of course when we don't know about these things. But for some remarkable reason I expected honesty and fairness from actors. What a dope I was. I should have known better having dated actors. My least favorite people next to terrorists are actors. Actors should only date one another, otherwise they are only interested in polluting the rest of our souls. Despite all this circus of the other two cowardly writers, the dishonest and selfish acting company, etc., my poems keep coming. That's the real beauty of this world. The real payoff. And of course I know better now than to trust so much. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:37:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Were you supposed to be entertainment, or part of a program? Was this a "literary evening" or a "fundraiser"? I don't know, in my experience a lot of these things change during the event, especially if the planner doesn't have a lot of experience, or thought that the poetry would be entertainment like the band (although there seemed to be aproblem with that as well), or planned a program but realized that people were giving more money just drinking and eating fairy vaginas or whatever. Hey, at least it wasn't a "no host" bar and you thought ahead and brought glitter. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:07:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: temps MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit working on new stuff for dbcinema. temps: http://vispo.com/temp/18.htm http://vispo.com/temp/17.htm ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:29:37 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Send a chapbook to a war criminal for Tinfish Press MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tinfish Press's “Send a Book to a War Criminal” Drive Tinfish Press has just published a chapbook by Sarith Peou, titled CORPSE WATCHING. This book of poems details Peou's experiences under the genocidal Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia. Please see http://tinfishpress.com/corpse.html for details. I decided to send a copy to former Secretary of State and Nobel Peace Prize Laureate, Henry Kissinger, whose actions were largely responsible for the Khmer Rouge's coming to power in 1975. But I want everyone to have this chance. Send $10 to Tinfish Press (less than the usual price of $12) and we will send a copy of the book to the war criminal of your choice with a personalized card to say who's responsible for sending it along. There are many such war criminals—choose one or more. If at all possible, please track down their addresses for us. Susan M. Schultz, Editor Tinfish Press 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9 Kane`ohe, HI 96744 http://tinfishpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:28:51 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: Send a chapbook to a war criminal for Tinfish Press In-Reply-To: <46A982C1.5020309@hawaii.rr.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE dear susan, what a great idea! i'll be thinking of someone. will let you know. hope you and yours are well in beautiful kane'ohe. hugs, g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Thu, 26 Jul 2007, Susan Webster Schultz wrote: > Tinfish Press's =93Send a Book to a War Criminal=94 Drive > > Tinfish Press has just published a chapbook by Sarith Peou, titled > CORPSE WATCHING. This book of poems details Peou's experiences under the > genocidal Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia. Please see > http://tinfishpress.com/corpse.html for details. > > I decided to send a copy to former Secretary of State and Nobel Peace > Prize Laureate, Henry Kissinger, whose actions were largely responsible > for the Khmer Rouge's coming to power in 1975. > > But I want everyone to have this chance. Send $10 to Tinfish Press (less > than the usual price of $12) and we will send a copy of the book to the > war criminal of your choice with a personalized card to say who's > responsible for sending it along. There are many such war > criminals=97choose one or more. If at all possible, please track down > their addresses for us. > > > Susan M. Schultz, Editor > Tinfish Press > 47-728 Hui Kelu Street #9 > Kane`ohe, HI 96744 > http://tinfishpress.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:12:29 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Glass Subject: Masako's Story by Yukiko Otake (Ahadada Books) is an SPD Pick MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Thanks SPD! Available through the Ahadada Books website www.ahadadabooks.com, or SPD. A Timely poem by an atomic survivor. Jess ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:40:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I was telling CA's story of the Animal Rights event for a friend last night, and he summed it up with:=20 the Left screwing the Leftover does that fairly describe what was going on? were the organizers/ attendees what you'd call "institutional Lefties," or was I wrong to paint such a picture?=20 (please don't take the epithet "Leftover" as a put-down: my friend was trying to draw a distinction between innovative artists and the politically progressive but socially more conservative sponsors) my image of the event was that the poets were too wild-eyed and expressive for the organizers to comfortably include them (which is the fault of the organizers for not getting a handle on who they were inviting, their work and the energy they would bring to the event).=20 I love the image of the poets and jazz musicians meeting up outside for their own party: did anyone take pictures?=20 tl -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Catherine Daly Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 17:38 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over Were you supposed to be entertainment, or part of a program? Was this a "literary evening" or a "fundraiser"? I don't know, in my experience a lot of these things change during the event, especially if the planner doesn't have a lot of experience, or thought that the poetry would be entertainment like the band (although there seemed to be aproblem with that as well), or planned a program but realized that people were giving more money just drinking and eating fairy vaginas or whatever. Hey, at least it wasn't a "no host" bar and you thought ahead and brought glitter. --=20 All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:02:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Something to say? Executions .... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit What is the National Execution Alert? The National Execution Alert is a monthly news bulletin that highlights the stories of death row inmates scheduled for execution in the current and coming months. How do I respond to the Alerts? NCADP's action center now provides direct links to e-mail governors, legislators, and state leaders. We encourage all subscribers to use this system to voice their concerns about pending executions. Also, the State Alert pages include contact information for major newspapers and local affiliates. http://www.ncadp.org/execution_alerts.html ~~ --------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:54:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Hear Ye =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?=96_See_Ye_=96_Read_Ye_=96?= Comments: To: Theory and Writing , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, webartery@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed via Chris Funkhauser Hear Ye =96 See Ye =96 Read Ye =96 the Creative Cannibal issue of We Magazine (making a return after 14 =20 years mia, assembled in a 48 hour period at Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado) is now available here see/hear/read works by Geof Huth, Kenneth Goldsmith, Karen =20 Randall, Travis Macdonald, Scott Keeney, Brian Kim Stefans, Steve =20 Silberman, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Peter Ciccariello, James Kerley, =20 Brandon Arthur, Mittie Roger, Eric Curkendall, Catherine Daly, =20 Elizabeth Robinson, Samuel Knights, Marcus Salgado, Wil Hallgren, =20 Jeremy Hight, Gregory Severance, Ryan Clark, Bruce Andrews, Linda =20 Norton, Steve Dalachinsky, Eva Wheelock, Hugh Tribbey, Lily Robert-=20 Foley, Lucio Agra, mIEKAL aND, Jim Andrews, CamillE Bacos, Sandy =20 Baldwin, Augusto de Campos, Caterina Davinio, Justin Katko, Jason =20 Nelson, Clement=E9 Padin, Alan Sondheim, Chris Funkhouser, Joe Richey, =20= Larissa Shmailo, Lawrence Upton, and Katie Yates http://www.wepress.org/19 =09 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:37:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: What was here - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed What was here - Second Life residue / theory, Sandy Baldwin, Alan Sondheim: On avatars and avatar escapes, July 26 performance - duplication eliminated - [13:23] Gesture is missing from database. Eifachfilm Vacirca Online sandy Taifun [13:29] Taifun: My avatars! little people! I have moved into the interior of avatars... avatars speak with a thousand voices. Mon poupees. DO WE NOT BREATHE AS ONE PERSON? ARE HUMAN? murmur constantly, you can hear them just beneath surface, in my heart, gasps air, dolls [13:30] They run around everywhere, underfoot. will play song, aire, jig or rondelay! vectored human define an avatar as organism which infinitely repairable not within and without semi-geodesic space paralleling i'm becoming avatar-man dream-woman. natyasatrotpatti: mythical origin work You begin to understand that all are bots expert systems some symptoms am preksagrhalasksana: characteristicis playhouse its different parts You: ==/222 Well, there's no more it, his writing discourse itself getting stale. He's taken bend trundles bundles towards future; we're there carrying than our share avatar's, where there, so heard Just like those pirouettes, if were body at center them. Her skirt kept flying up, was nothing SQUEAK forever now hold your peace; this life, do lease on any other, left, rangadevatapujana: worship deities connected stage upangavidhana: gestures minor limbs such eyes eyballs eyebrows nose cheeks lower lip chin mouth fifty industrialized nations incincerated 250000 Iraqis ARMED POLITICS ANNIHILIZATION science baby, camera absurd linkage VOLUPTUOUS SHOCK VIGOR BODY FRAME "TREE" "SEA" "SKY" "I" GO AWAY red pepper boiling vinegar teach marks PHILOSOPHY OF VIRTUAL BEDROOM AVATAR immortal sacred heater language train pet ritual-objects-insignia-power-substitute-spiritual-satellite-enchanted-l ove-exposure-regulative-transaction-corruption-norm acquire baody others - blood milk urine shit face value social universal perversion contract law coordinate field rudding odors sweat vaginal semen ova decompositions bacteria vegetation hummingbirds sparrows flies mites "i detest her because i know well" imitate her" curse felt" OOH AHH YOU AAH YOUR YOURS ARMS criminalization society = transactions portions feed decay protodocument libertinage rules for outcries screams unnatural acts after-image liquefy vaporize crime shortcircuit dissipate thickness passion trigger calculate sinews muscles mecoming glands libs blotting out muscular enervations loose wet chest become semiotic comic witness extreme pleasure speech reduction crushed conspiracy integral monsters torso split big brains cipher OUTRAGE THE NORM ASSAULT SUCH EQUILIBRIUM BLAZE SCREAM solitude essential limit stranger shout metallize starched nurse uniform wanton hands liquify atmospheric electricity markers lust muddies turgid light idols vaseline-coated lens streets orchid limb thrust meter possessive handgun GIMME SAY AM DYING remaining suspended fondly animal fur feathers root dank hummus flake caress fabric come silk leather seesaw horse hump transact mire ossify slime fluminescens hardness bones rods collapse secretions belly giggling jelly swamps fetishize solidify sweating gleaming belts boots powdered male milk-sap LIFE FLUID EXCESS BLOOD PUMP fluid conduity neuter identity self hunt economy dyad eat wife-force co- [13:31] phallocratic mach bullshit rights WIT NONSENSE RICOCHET HEART CLANDESTINE NIBBLES ocean illuminated plastic box motor, tiny heels depilated legs job musculature buildt gym scar liquid hand movement want man woman PEFORATED LOBES EARS HIS NOSTRILS TUSKS BEAKS CLAWS PLUMES SHELLS PATHS FEAST hillbill monoculture SURFACE! SEX! SHADOWS! ELEMENTS! PINK MUFFINS! COUCH EARTH! DUCK LIPS! MANDRAKES! small creature half-hidden seaweed brown drag undertow hermit crab shell smelled moist ebb doorway [13:32] corpse color remains when their unreality has been demonstrated becomes eye longer stimulation retina world declares odorless song wind trees remediations, mediations, projectivities, introjectivities, phenomenologies, histories, mechanics, Extruded intruded (upon) body: cleansed bodies continuous middle-eastern 'war' armored imaginary journeys (Rhine, England); sexualized bodies: o avatar, rise midst maelstrom, sadness cobalt plutonium uranium radium seriously, what covers pain completion, yours argon xenon neon, whirl me through infinnnnitude drugs file sex fuck suck cum avatar. knife skin watch solo sexatar watch. shades avatars-- precognition behavior collision transparent interpenetration gave new Life Avatar Body moves would move had File called God attempting escape vectors result avatar-work led 15:47:47 There constructed motion capture equipment 15:48:08 images laser scanning check Love War, Avatar, Cyborg, Experimental conferences. {avatars backed, back infinite space}. digital sublime, space} imitating real-life people right, imitatin avatars. refuse moon-bay, moon-bay. avatars, (digital) sublime; backed , well, these torn apart, By What May AsK? sublime backs against wall space; nowhere left go. elsewhere The disappearance branch hardened rock occasional artifacts. itself, image-avatar, ghost. ghost travels anything course; coordinates tacit knowledge electronic Every symbol ligament avatar; every referent gesture; gesture procures body; speaking spectre doll faerie wraithe hobgoblin troll tengu kappa presence cloth stitch suture binding closing damming holding velvet cotton wool "Consider next smearing thinking skin.\n"; Kamishibai, virtual idols, PlayKiss Nikuko, Meat-Girl, (among others) 'emanation' another dead ok you're hearing imitation 78 record created event very low frequency help. 16:04:35 explore 'body-avatar' issues tobother less! 16:07:11 dancers live yes 29-Jan-2007 16:07:18 In fact they something head pieces did while ago but excusable! went somewhere, said something! beginning transparency, wizard listening-posts MOOs example. Here we are, becoming-virtual still. Given danced-to-infinity motion-capture second=life quasi-avatar tethered somewhat distanced image 'break through' private barriers course consequence "one by one, each line alone, typing Control-d done.\n"; $name calls forth $a[$gen1] $noun[$non], hungered, making things. $prep[$pre] $a[$gen], $a[$diff], $[$gen], $str? system("touch .trace; rev rope >> .trace"); system("rm rope"); "Your inscription finished, thing.", "\n\n" 3 < $g; fly it. takenpart apart llnhx 2.2.6.::attributions Devour Blue Nattributions Brought Forth lntarn$l karnals, bhckats pf mpdhlas, Attempt grapple ungrapple Death Star Galleon (s0): h boarding Flying Dutchy (f0) Dutc Sound wood wire: alpine zither: wish home computer with. avoid swords. swords make angry. avatar-meat representation uncaptured remembering origins / scars ancer ancer/avatar ancer/ancer ancer/igital igital ancer. ancer{}igital{{}}avatar{}analog. igital{{}}avatar{}analog. deconstructible level deconstruction engineering reverse "My leashed, logical thought, protocols thought; it's wonder think al One cannot reach farther one's reach, closer control release, dissipation. Enter reality world, suffused sound. Over Lord 1 Quon: tone war... Wings creak, sound beginning. (Subtitle) Haruka: "Why blue?" That's wondering. Ayato stops turns toward Har MACHINE coursing trapped blood, flush spirit vaporized, substitute bodypart another, apparatus obstinancy, prick machine: undoes belt buckle him, finds right diagram support weight, tongue, zone, other love MOUTH LETS CHAINS SENTENCES, RAMPLES, GIGGLES, TONGUES SPREAD WET OUT OVER LIPS, LEAKS, COLLAPSES, MELTS, FINGERS [13:33] don't listen avatar-man. dream-woman contaminated. building condemned. transformed early version 'outt' blue construct-space outt-structure. avatar-video avatar-performance content degree. sukara, dakshinanila, nandiskandhardhara, dhurya, prakata, pritvardhana, aparajita, sarvasattva, govinda, adhrita prefer small, seeping, peripeheral, marginal, scattered words sites, domains, emanations, emissions, interwoven sharing coagulated ego/s, matrices, languages, bodies. break down here, use me? absjure, abjure ... moments ? words, drops say drizzle everything moment you, mmmm... matrix, mother, maternal, announces edge frame dialog, carried forth... times smooth us, bits bytes, protocls lost smoothing functions traced across peripheries, margins coagulating limpets seas jellies made, women, sounded, resonated, protocol, site open winds you've before, over again, repetition goal delibery interval... bring about semblance face, lineaments mouths, elsewhere, sides things often lure seduction among here relates Lacanian objet a, deferal.... future Net, it attains state _seamless reality,_ melding real disturbances way tending _psychosis,_ interweaving realities, respon- sibilities claim Avatars always disturbances, irruptions language, lang- uage portending _the raveling existence essence appear erasures also visible, letters disappearing reverse. dark dreams, enough soft limbs, mine... matrix saves ending, pureness salvaging spaces... subject other/ near side screen tangled avatar-sites/sights/citations. @create $thing begging. clear speaker herself separate creations. Voices, voices! Each participant occupies represents (virtual) constituted written begging object number #75438. margins, slippages, constitutions, constructs, emergences "depths" software hardware, blockages flows only taking account, well surface manifestations possible comprehend subjectivity These develop limits program, reveal substructures/protocols violate dialogs stick-like _anime_ figures work, distributed authorships anatomies. consider _projection self_ appearance various applications audiophiles app arounds bio blogs awk biomes tion tr We look ruptures characters resonating interfering configuration files exe everglades empathetic encapsulations episteme extasis entropic extensivity fantasm externality [13:34] package: knives. prims cut. talks. inside he says. construction torsion edge-space. world. anorectic [13:35] =====/999 original /www /bbb /qqq eggs placenta cloaca 3/333 [13:36] [13:37] [13:38] ====/ggg [13:39] [13:40] [13:41] ====/;;; /''' /zzz /xxx oooo [13:42] [13:43] [13:44] [13:45] egg [13:46] =======nous sont nous sexdrive florescenece font wack centimes centimez =nous sens hung eagle news sense [13:47] sonnet rect fluu KJHKL help send [13:48] buttons liquids wiffle ()(*) black rose thorn ewwt hmmmmxxx [13:49] stem baby cell fine germanaachec ===if tyype won't be still during period fingers moving elsewhere. /yyy [13:50] pistol sucking fisted hair given up how many lines ascii ==if type fight iraq thoughts [13:51] freedom else return lima lamina [13:52] ==/eee /rrr /tttt [13:53] sputum war wrap arm =/kkk [13:54] ==--= [13:55] [13:56] god bod [13:57] tv Try closer. Can't sit same region you. [13:59] =====/ddd lick yearn [14:00] ()( [14:02] [14:03] [14:04] clown InnerT00b: aren't owner [14:05] [14:06] ======/ggg whole Like slimy hole [14:07] ==/666 [14:08] [14:09] =/iii /[[[ j;ljssldj;d aaahhhhhhhh =/mmm [14:10] =/1111 gooo goooo goo meee cooo pooo /z/zzz 9-=-09 [14:11] WEEE TUSY TUSKY WWOOOOSHY margerine massage cheep jf [14:12] myh horno royal road [14:13] flutter mu outrage bad go [14:14] crumbs fattties flat oybc py puncture ==== =/,,, /... /\\\ /qqqq wanted sole d conditoin [14:15] A REAL MAN WOULDNT' cna't bew REEALL WOMAN IN REEL HER BELLY AND HAIR HAH HA HAHHAHAH LAFF IMMOLATS [14:16] dissection ham da haoney JLll oh [14:17] encounter ====/777 0000000 toy finger [14:18] fluids /nous bon jour oui ii iii fffuucckkk =when write one WHEN WRITE THIS NO CAN SEE ME [14:19] WRITTEN COMES TO TELL OTHERWISE listened wouldn't WHENIWRITETHISLIKEIN THISFASHIONIT WILLREMAINFOREVER shudder came YES YESYES YESYESYES NOUSSONT NOUSNOUSSONT =/PPP effe [14:20] [14:21] sigh cage merge miniscus [14:22] septum why didn't happen [14:23] === ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:56:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: steve russell Subject: When Poets Get Fucked Over/the sequel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Activist are so uptight. & poets just want to have fun. Maybe if the organizers had managed to land Peter Singer, get him wasted, everyone would have left the party feeling fine. --------------------------------- Get the free Yahoo! toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware protection. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:39:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Hear Ye =?windows-1252?Q?=96_See_Ye_=96_Read_Ye__=96?= In-Reply-To: <02D3B343-B1E2-4667-95FE-93E2DB266061@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit this looks really great! mIEKAL aND wrote: > via Chris Funkhauser > > > > Hear Ye – See Ye – Read Ye – > > > > the Creative Cannibal issue of We Magazine (making a return after 14 > years mia, > > assembled in a 48 hour period at Naropa University in Boulder, Colorado) > > is now available > > > > here see/hear/read works by Geof Huth, Kenneth Goldsmith, Karen > Randall, Travis Macdonald, Scott Keeney, Brian Kim Stefans, Steve > Silberman, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Peter Ciccariello, James Kerley, Brandon > Arthur, Mittie Roger, Eric Curkendall, Catherine Daly, Elizabeth > Robinson, Samuel Knights, Marcus Salgado, Wil Hallgren, Jeremy Hight, > Gregory Severance, Ryan Clark, Bruce Andrews, Linda Norton, Steve > Dalachinsky, Eva Wheelock, Hugh Tribbey, Lily Robert-Foley, Lucio > Agra, mIEKAL aND, Jim Andrews, CamillE Bacos, Sandy Baldwin, Augusto > de Campos, Caterina Davinio, Justin Katko, Jason Nelson, Clementé > Padin, Alan Sondheim, Chris Funkhouser, Joe Richey, Larissa Shmailo, > Lawrence Upton, and Katie Yates > > > > http://www.wepress.org/19 > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:51:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline > Estimado Conrad: > > > > Many things could have happened you haven't considered: perhaps after = a > > certain point someone figured--the poets are just too drunk to give a g= ood > > reading. And who wants to see and hear yet another drunken poet reading= ? > > And doing the usual predictable things drunken poets do-- like making w= hat > > they hope is an offensive statement or falling on their faces in their = own > > vomit . . . > > If your looks and behaviour really bothered anyone--you'd have been > > asked to leave. You have to realize that people big in city politics a= nd > > toney businesses are used to dealing with people far more extreme and > > dangerous, far more terrifying, decadent and out there on the wild frin= ges > > of the breaking of the laws, bones, reputations, careers, than a small = group > > of sozzled poets-- and all in a regular old day's work, too. Just pick= up > > the dialy paper or turn on the news. How many more patrons of the arts= and > > politicos do you see charged with crimes than poets? Quite a damn few! > > > > > Wild crazy drunks spouting verbiage? Hey--as far as these birds are > concerned, you can walk down the streets and find this form of entertainm= ent > and instruction any time of day or night. And for free, too, without hav= ing > to shell out bundles of laundered money for tax write-offs just to hang o= ut > a gallery for while. > > > No, the way to go about it is to adapt to your environment, to use > > camouflage and disguises, deception and polite banter, all the while sm= iling > > like a crocodile along with the other reptilian life forms. The object= ive > > is to get your poetry heard, right? To ATTAIN THE PODIUM AND SECURE TH= E > > MIC! Therefore rather than allow anyone to think you are just another > > boring drunken poet who is about to spout some boring bad poetry in a > > drunken delusion of being "too much to take politically" rather than be= ing > > "too much of the samo samo"--"same old same old"--you have got to dress= and > > act the part of the same kind of outwardly slick surfaced lizard or sna= ke, > > hitman or art dealer, sex ring operator or real estate king pin the res= t of > > the company is. > > > > Put on your Piranaha face and your sharkskin and fins and swim > swimingly along with the rest of the ones who never sleep . . . > > Make sure your friends and cohorts check periodicaly to make sure > > the mics are plugged in, the wires out of the way of any potential drun= ken > > trippers who might wrench the al important plus out of their sockets. = Make > > sure you talk to as many of the Mr So and So and Ms Such and Such as > > possible, in wise, witty, polite , charming ways, all the while keeping > > alert to drop in a mention of your reading later in the evening, so as = many > > people as possible will have it in their martini laced brains that they= are > > looking forward to this. That way if anything appears to be a possible= hint > > of a change in plan--rally your new found supporters. Make sure they l= et it > > be known how much they all absolutely positively need, desire and > > desperately want to hear you and are counting on this as the piece de > > resistance of the soiree. > > > > Let their durnken voices be heard!! And don't worry about yours for > now. Let he Majority speak --and very loudly, too!--and have its way!!! > > > Then--when the great moment has arrived--you can tear off you= r > > suit jacket and dickie, your cumberband--and trousers, too, if you like= --and > > reveal beneath the glitter and glare of your True Being! > > And the mic being secured, hit him hard and hit 'em fast. That > > way the audience is so taken by surprise you have won the day, immediat= ely. > > And by the way--be sure to be funny as heck in between the ranting part= s--to > > go back and forth between "good cop, bad cop" so to speak works like a > > charm. Keep 'em happy and keep 'em off guard-- > > You will have undivided attention and no doubt people being as > > they are many many new friends in audience who also are Amish haters an= d > > think without a pang of guilt how the Amish children were slaughtered i= nside > > their school room ealiler this year. > > Serves them right, the dog torturers! > > Seriously, i think it is possible to misjudge one's audience in > > such a crowd. People are really just tired of the same old depressingl= y > > all-too-familair drunken wildly dressed or appearing poet--it's like ha= ving > > a mime show up--kind of an embarassement and poor reflection on the bad > > fashion sense of someone in charge, how incredibly behind the times the= y > > are. "Epater la bourgosisie" with drunken antics--ho hum. Bring in t= he > > coats, please, so we can leave this dreary clambake . . . > > No--what they really need is something like an act of poetic > > TearerISm--to blend in and mill about and gain everyone's alliance--and= then > > go on stage and tear off the uniform and tear into the poetry--and int= o the > > humor--that's the way to do it-- > > > > Be the one in charge!!! > > > > > When in Rome, do as the Roamns do--among mega-scale practioners of > > deceit and camouflage, "cover up"--use their own tactics against them. > > Remeber the Trojan Horse! > > Then one has performed some "poetic justice". > > In this age of silence and security the way to frighten or shak= e > > up people with poetry when it is polticians and patrons one is dealing = with > > is to perform something "tearerIStic"--something that mocks their effor= ts to > > keep poetry out--(if they really even want to--) rather than playing ri= ght > > into it. In the name of poetry, don't just be just another drunken bor= ing > > samo samo poet stereotype for them to overlook while the true "poetry" = is > > walking right in front of them----beautiful coifs and clothes, the hors > > d'ouveres, the flashes of skillfully revealed flesh---the whisper of do= llars > > in the wings . . . > > The tolerance of the rich is pretty huge--after all they pay > > artists to provide them with the "shock of the new"--and issues like pu= ppy > > mills to sing on to--by being "patrons of the arts"--the person or pers= ons > > in charge of the reading might have just decided you didn't seem like a= very > > promising lot after al the money being poured out in the booze going do= wn > > the hatchs. After all, f you're pouring out dollars like Diet Pepsi y= ou > > expect something in return. So you have gt to make them think before y= ou go > > near the mic that what they are going to be getting is the finest newse= t > > hippest most high octane pure Hell American alcohol they ever consumed = in > > their sharklike lives. > > And then you dorp the hammer-- > > > > > > Not that one is really going to offend anyone by savaging people who are > > cruel to dogs. Your audience probably feels that personally it's to ba= d thy > > can't just go out and perfrom some carnage on anyone capble of being me= an to > > a dog.. That's one thing they won't tolerate! > > It's far worse after all than mistreating humans! You can > > pay a human to be ordered around--but a dog--now a dog, they just LOVE = you > > for that!! > > > > And you know how it is--you just plain can't BUY love-- not like a > dog's, not like "man's best friend"! > > You see, if you had worked it in the manner described, you > > may have found yourself with a lot of unexpected allies, patrons, > > supporters--and ones with pocketbooks!! And influence in places high a= nd > > low! > > > > Seriously--i've seen this sort of thing work many times-- > > Remember--the jazz musicians may sympathize with you--but i am sure they > at least were paid, made sure of it-- > for delivering the goods-- > > maybe the music and the crowd aren't to their real liking as what they'd > prefer to be doing-- > but you see, they did play and am sure made some impression, had another > gig to add to the CV--etc-- > > It is always a good idea to learn from the example of professionals-- > who know how to deal with the professionals doing the paying-- > as they work to rise in their own profession-- > > > Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:40:45 -0500 > > > From: tom.w.lewis@THOMSON.COM > > > Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > > I was telling CA's story of the Animal Rights event for a friend last > > > night, and he summed it up with: > > > > > > the Left screwing the Leftover > > > > > > does that fairly describe what was going on? were the organizers/ > > > attendees what you'd call "institutional Lefties," or was I wrong to > > > paint such a picture? > > > > > > (please don't take the epithet "Leftover" as a put-down: my friend wa= s > > > trying to draw a distinction between innovative artists and the > > > politically progressive but socially more conservative sponsors) > > > > > > my image of the event was that the poets were too wild-eyed and > > > expressive for the organizers to comfortably include them (which is > > the > > > fault of the organizers for not getting a handle on who they were > > > inviting, their work and the energy they would bring to the event). > > > > > > I love the image of the poets and jazz musicians meeting up outside > > for > > > their own party: did anyone take pictures? > > > > > > tl > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.ED= U > > ] > > > On Behalf Of Catherine Daly > > > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 17:38 > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over > > > > > > Were you supposed to be entertainment, or part of a program? > > > > > > Was this a "literary evening" or a "fundraiser"? > > > > > > I don't know, in my experience a lot of these things change during th= e > > > event, especially if the planner doesn't have a lot of experience, or > > > thought that the poetry would be entertainment like the band (althoug= h > > > > > there seemed to be aproblem with that as well), or planned a program > > > but realized that people were giving more money just drinking and > > > eating fairy vaginas or whatever. Hey, at least it wasn't a "no host" > > > bar and you thought ahead and brought glitter. > > > > > > -- > > > All best, > > > Catherine Daly > > > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > See what you're getting into=85before you go there. Check it out! > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:58:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Tom and Catherine: Catherine first: Well, I see what you're saying, but we were supposed to read, had been invited to read. And what I wound up reading was the body language of the host. She knew what she was doing, meaning she wanted to X us from it, and did. And she never once came to say anything like, "whoops, sorry," etc., just this constant, "you'll read later" shit. Very passive-aggressive in the fashion of the guilty coward. And yeah, we had fun, but it was still a bunch of bullshit. She clearly did not want us at the microphone. And yes it was a fundraiser, but for me it was an awareness night, and we poets had things to say that NO ONE else who took to that microphone had said. But Will and Abbi made a nice looking book, which people did pick up and read, so, that's good. And I had fun, but I was still pissed off, as were others. Tom: yes, I think you're right on about getting the frame of who these people are. They are indeed that heavy branch of the Left enclosed into their own closed-circuit vision. Too much to jeopardize, which is exactly why we poets were uninvited with lies and a disabled microphone. I'm not paranoid, just observant. But those peach martinis were superb! And no way am I offended by you saying the Leftovers. It's exactly right, and the quietly, covertly conservative Left is banking on a lot of folks who don't want the boat to rock, and to allow, support, and perpetuate the lie that everyone is invited. It's the Hillary Clinton fireworks so many buy, like many of us bought her husband's lies his first time around. I bring up Hillary because one woman had a "Hillary for President" button on at this affair. It was pinned to a very expensive looking suit she will probably wear to a tea party with the Daughters of the Revolution. But the open support for Clinton summed up the room for me. I expect such people to want someone like Clinton. Hillary and Bill have done an EXCELLENT job at making all the right gestures into the wind about how much they care. Hillary and Bill have made it A-OKAY to pretend to care, or maybe they were riding a wave of this behavior already in motion? But the tyranny of our time and of our country is found in the remarkable UNSAID about what's ignored. If there are people in the future I'm sure they will be clear about everything we protected to maintain the worst things imaginable. The possible people of the future will see the Clintons (for example), really see them, because if there are people in the future I'm POSITIVE they will not have the luxury of our time where so much effort was put into pretending to care. Our selfishness makes the future almost impossibly honest. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:20:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: perhaps various interesting images, calligraphy In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The images of the Koran here are gorgeous. I have appreciated the Bhaga MP3 also..one listens, is carried..hopes ..in the emergence, in its recurrence, its evaporation and ride. Audrey --- Alan Sondheim wrote: > perhaps various interesting images > > > These might be of interest; the first series > contains more accurate ren- > ditions of images I put up a few years ago. The > Koran is difficult to > photograph; it's small and delicate and > tightly-bound. It's illuminated > with gold-leaf and from the early 19th-century and > as usual we're broke; > I'm trying to auction it through Sotheby's or > Christie's. I'm constantly > amazed at the physical labor and craft that went > into it. I've never felt > comfortable owning it; it's a museum piece. The > other three images are > half-exercise/camera-testing and playing around, but > they're of interest I > think: > > http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran1.jpg > http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran2.jpg > http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran3.jpg > http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran4.jpg > http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran5.jpg > http://www.asondheim.org/oldkoran6.jpg > > http://www.asondheim.org/nikukohouse.jpg > > http://www.asondheim.org/craned.jpg > > http://www.asondheim.org/calvary2.bmp > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 01:15:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: control (followup to What was Here text) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed control sections of control performed by sandy baldwin alan sondheim in sl east of odyssey excerpted from 19-minute video in which sound provides the motive and text provides the moment of disappearance http://www.asondheim.org/control.mp4 the full video would be around 200 megabytes highly compressed; this is bad enough but sufficient and indicative of the sort of psychodrama undergone by avatars in disregard of their human creators who remain in the background while sky land and skin turn blood this is america and iraq this is gender this is all or none this is gray code incremental learn the art of gray code and you will never have error again ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 23:34:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: New de blog Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Eros Meets Stencil Art - Dolores Park ... the way the erotic appearing dirt stain on a sidewalk unintentionally both augments and betrays the voice of a forlorn speaker. The way the red stencil ink - variously awash about the concrete - speaks to an enduring passion. A woman, I think. An artist who came west with her lover, either left him, or was betrayed, then set to stenciling the romance... "Green, green, I want you..." Haptic & Commentary Cantor Museum, Stanford University - Haptic 733 Guerrero - Haptic Joanne Kyger at City Lights - A Haptic with brief commentary. As always, comments appreciated. Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 00:33:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Harrison Horton Subject: Poets and plants: Help? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,=20 =20 and sorry, this is a botany question. When I first arrived back in Oakland, I moved in to my friend (artist) Eric= King's old place. He left me many useful things. In addition, he left me a= plant, a peace lily, that sat in a dark corner for 2 years (out of my igno= rance). I thought it was a green leafed plant and was happy with that.I hav= e since named the plant *Oscar* [it's the only other living thing in my stu= dio, so I thought a name was appropriate] and haved transplanted it to my n= ew place where it sits in the window and sunlight.It seems to be doing grea= t. At the moment it has a less than a half bloom, which it has had for four= days now, that is half bloom not going to full bloom. I didn't know this p= lant bloomed.These are my question, how long does a peace lily take to full= bloom?=20 =20 Have the cloudy mornings recently affected Oscar's decision to bloom?Is the= re something [not expensive] I can do to usher the bloom?Some of you must b= e botanists or plant knowledgeable. _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Wi= ndows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=3Den-us&ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_mig= ration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 06:49:25 -0400 Reply-To: pmetres@jcu.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Philip Metres Subject: new on Behind the Lines blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Rm9sa3MsIGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIGFueSB0aG91Z2h0cywgYW55IHJlY2VudCB3ZWIgZGlzY292 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Cj49PT0NCj4NCj4tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4NCj5FbmQgb2Yg UE9FVElDUyBEaWdlc3QgLSAyNiBKdWwgMjAwNyB0byAyNyBKdWwgMjAwNyAoIzIwMDctMjA4 KQ0KPioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 08:45:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Poets and plants: Help? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sound like Oscar really needs some friends... I haven't grown peace lilies but I have several hundred other species growing in my house. Light, temperature, humidity & transplant shock are all going to factor into answering your question. A shot of fish emulsion will jumpstart the flowering process but why not sit back & enjoy a slow bloom. Or set up a webcam & sell tickets. ~mIEKAL On Jul 28, 2007, at 2:33 AM, David Harrison Horton wrote: > Hi all, > > and sorry, this is a botany question. > When I first arrived back in Oakland, I moved in to my friend > (artist) Eric King's old place. He left me many useful things. In > addition, he left me a plant, a peace lily, that sat in a dark > corner for 2 years (out of my ignorance). I thought it was a green > leafed plant and was happy with that.I have since named the plant > *Oscar* [it's the only other living thing in my studio, so I > thought a name was appropriate] and haved transplanted it to my new > place where it sits in the window and sunlight.It seems to be doing > great. At the moment it has a less than a half bloom, which it has > had for four days now, that is half bloom not going to full bloom. > I didn't know this plant bloomed.These are my question, how long > does a peace lily take to full bloom? > > Have the cloudy mornings recently affected Oscar's decision to > bloom?Is there something [not expensive] I can do to usher the > bloom?Some of you must be botanists or plant knowledgeable. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 07:21:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Hiding under trees Comments: To: rhizome , webartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This blue thunder and its agonizing tributaries forks before me when i smoke my way home Predictably it rains nasal stitches on mary’s red umbrella until I walk into a sign that says no outlet I wonder where the ends of lines go I didn’t mean to hurt anybody Laughing the other side of my nose to garbage piled behind some houses i see and of sudden torrents land slowly easy pouring down Lewis LaCook Director of Web Development Abstract Outlooks Media 440-989-6481 http://www.abstractoutlooks.com Abstract Outlooks Media - Premium Web Hosting, Development, and Art Photography http://www.lewislacook.org lewislacook.org - New Media Poetry and Poetics http://www.xanaxpop.org Xanax Pop - the Poetry of Lewis LaCook ____________________________________________________________________________________ Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 09:51:55 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE REVOLUTION, is very important. It's been playing on Philadelphia PBS, and while I only use my television for the news, THIS IS NEWS! The importance of this documentary I feel is that it shows you the people we only hear about, read about. There are friends of mine in Philadelphia (one of them Cuban) who get into screaming matches with me over Chavez and Venezuela's Bolivarian Revolution. What I've noticed is that their main argument is always that I'm naive, I'm being lied to, I'm buying it. And when my friend Mary Kalayna of the Global Women's Strike went down to Venezuela last year for the World Social Forum and I interviewed her about it, my friends who like to get into screaming matches with me over this topic told me SHE WAS naive, being lied to, etc. And said too that Chavez probably MADE all the people she spoke with say the things they did, to trick her, to lie and fool her. Well, THIS documentary happens to be important BECAUSE if the Venezuelan people in the film are acting, they should all win awards! SEEING THESE PEOPLE really seeing them, seeing their body language, seeing their care, seeing how they are FEELING cared for, well, it's just nothing short of infectious, that warmth, and I want it. Seriously, I want it in my life, in your life, that system of care and collective strength. There is a scene in a soup kitchen / homeless shelter. The people running it make it clear that they DON'T want people to continue eating and living there. That the goal is to find out what happened to each person brought them there, and to solve the problem, get them on their feet. Get them medicine if they need it, etc. It's very complicated, the jobs in the shelter, but the people working there seem to be dedicated and motivated, and are making progress. In Philadelphia I've spoken with people who work in the shelters (a city where (I'm not making this up) one quarter of the population lives below the poverty line) and they tell me (one of these people is a coworker of mine) that it's almost impossible to get these people on their feet and out into the world because the city is so expensive, and jobs impossible to find, especially for some of these people who are in the conditions they are in. In Philadelphia it seems that the shelter workers are doing the best they can with terrible resources, and can only manage to maintain the situation, meaning they can't possibly invest in progressing these people into new lives so much as they can just provide food and shelter. And in America, a country with the wealth we have it's shameful to see so many people whose needs are not being met. There is a young man being interviewed in the documentary who is a member of the queer branch of the revolution, and it's AMAZING to see the T-shirt he's wearing, which has a quote from Chavez's own mouth about how homosexuals ARE part of the revolution, and important at that. My president in my own country has actually said that he thinks we queers are making a choice to be queer. So has presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Meanwhile here's this man in Venezuela saying that IT'S VITAL to reach out immediately to those most in need in the queer community, and that being the transgendered people and the queers of African descent. Wow! That was beautiful to hear! And in Philadelphia when a black drag queen is murdered the police write it off as an accident, literally do so, and move on. There's another scene in a health clinic with a doctor that just blows my mind, makes me so happy. And another scene with Nora Castaneda, president of the Women's National Bank who is behind the heart of the revolution getting out to the poorest regions. And the documentary points out that not everyone has been helped yet, but shows how and where they have so far been able to, and how and where to intend to go next and move everyone forward. It's an amazing thing to see what that country was when American corporate interests had control, and what it looks like now, and what they intend to do next. It's beautiful. If you could make the effort to see this film you would give yourself the opportunity to make clearer judgments about Venezuela, whether you feel good or not about what's going on down there. If you go to the PhillySound and scroll down, you'll soon see a post about the documentary with links to the Global Women's Strike, etc., and there you will be able to find a way to see the film. I hope you do. And I hope you let others know about it. This is important, very important, and thank you, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:13:35 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: when POETS get fucked over MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline David Chirot, we poets who were going to read were NOT drunk until it was clear we weren't reading. The poet I mentioned, Janet Mason, who got drunkest fastest wasn't a reader. It became clear to me, and clearer and clearer that the woman running the show wasn't going to let us read. And I wasn't going to interfere with Will Esposito's attempts to make this happen. This was something he had worked hard at, and was trying to get us up there, but was being shot down. It wasn't my place to get in the middle of that out of respect for my friend. Also he wasn't asking for my help anyway. After a little while it was pretty fucking clear we were getting the block and the chop. And WHY NOT party at that point!? Oh, and I make it a point to NOT drink until after I've read. Besides, who says we can't give a fine reading with a few drinks under the belt? Oh, and when I say that the mic was disabled don't assume that wires were unplugged. This thing had been cut off from the other room, trust me. This gallery is a very sophisticated set up as it was the former home of the MTV Philadelphia Real World Show. And what a bunch of assholes they were. But, my point being that that microphone was down and not about to go up. But I read a poem from the podium anyway, but the only ones who could hear it were my other poet friends and only because they came in close. Oh well, CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 19:22:44 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Marcacci Subject: Listen to i-Outlaw's "From the Vault of Antiquity" Episode 2 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This episodic mini-show from i-Outlaw brings long lost forgotten writings to your 21st century ears. Episode 2 brings you a text by Heroditus, 'The Punishment of Harpagus', read in the ancient Greek and followed by a new translation by Joseph McDonald. Spread the word. Always happy to hear from you... -- Bob Marcacci We learn from history that we do not learn from history. - Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:58:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Adam Tobin Subject: Sunday 3 pm: Howsare & Carter at Unnameable Books MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just a quick note to say: Erika Howsare and Tyler Carter, outstanding poets both, will be reading here tomorrow at 3pm. They don't neither of them live in NYC, so it'll be a while before you see them again. *** SUNDAY, JULY 29 3:00 PM UNNAMEABLE BOOKS 456 BERGEN STREET, BROOKLYN *** ERIKA HOWSARE is an editor for the Charlottesville Weekly and an aspiring organic farmer. Her work will be found in Fence, Chain, Verse, Aufgabe, Encyclopedia, the Denver Quarterly, and the online version of Conjunctions. A collaborative chapbook with Jen Tynes, THE OHIO SYSTEM, is out from Octopus Books. Recent projects include a fictional account of traveling with Isabella Bird and a true account of a search for the Northwest Passage. TYLER CARTER lives in Oakland, and teaches writing at the Academy of Art College in San Francisco. His work may be found in American Letters & Commentary, Combo, Fence, Tantalum, etc., and in 3 chapbooks [most recently: EGG BREAKFAST (horse less press), and forthcoming: NEW PLACE (the Pierce Press)]. You can also find one of his poems at the bottom of this email. UNNAMEABLE BOOKS is a new & used bookshop on Bergen Street in central Brooklyn. Steps from the 2,3 Bergen St. subway; a short walk from the D,M,N,R,B,Q,4,5,LIRR; around the corner from the atlantic yards landgrab. *** *** BLACK HOLE *** The deepest note ever detected is 57 octaves below middle C. Whereas, here on earth, birds. *** xoxo, adam *** Unnameable Books [formerly "Adam's"] 456 Bergen St. Brooklyn, NY 11217 unnameablebooks@earthlink.net (718) 789-1534 www.unnameablebooks.net *** PS - We'll be closed for vacation from Monday August 6 through Friday August 10, so get your HARRY POTTER now! 25% off, of course. *** ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:40:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 28, 2007, at 7:51 AM, CA Conrad wrote: > > > There are friends of mine in Philadelphia (one of them Cuban) who get > into > screaming matches with me over Chavez and Venezuela's Bolivarian > Revolution. What I've noticed is that their main argument is always > that > I'm naive, I'm being lied to, I'm buying it. Thanks for the news on the documentary. I was having some trouble following the above. Aren't the Cuban people friends of Venezuela? > G. Bowering, DLitt. I still haven't opened it. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:35:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Forwarded from electronicIntifada.net poetics, I thought you would be interested in the following link: http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article7124.shtml David Chirot (david.chirot@gmail.com) -- The Electronic Intifada is an online educational resource relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, offering news, analysis, and reference materials. Visit our site at http://electronicIntifada.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 08:03:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Mingus & Art Pepper--Still Married to the Music - New York Times In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline > Two of the giants of Jazz and two incredible women who've made their own > places in Jazz world-- > > if you haven't read Laurie and Art Pepper's Straight Life--do > > and same for Mingus' books-- > > > On 7/29/07, David Chirot wrote: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/arts/music/29kapl.html?ref=arts --- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 09:25:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Paul Nelson Subject: Re: Mingus & Art Pepper--Still Married to the Music - New York Times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Excellent article. http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/SOB_S= David!=0A=0AExcellent article. =0A=0Ahttp://www.globalvoicesradio.org/SOB_S= onnet_23_(Mingus).htm=0A=0Ais a bit of my take on Mingus. The line breaks (= notation) is perfect there, but I'll post here too:=0A=0AS.O.B. Sonnet XXII= I=0A=0A =0A=0A=0AMingus, a musical mystic=0A=0A=0Adead in Mexico in =A279= =0A=0A=0A@ 56. He burned=0A=0A=0Aclean through=0A=0A=0A& the day they burne= d=0Ahis remains=0A=0A=0A56 whales beached themselves=0A=0A=0Aon the Mexican= coast=0A=0A=0A& there THEY burned.=0A=0A=0ABurning whale fat=0A=0A=0Ain th= e Mexican sun.=0A=0A=0AFat smoke filled the=0A=0A=0AMexican air & Charlie= =A2s=0A=0A=0Aashes painted the Ganges a shade=0A=0A=0Aof blue it will NEVER= see=0Aagain.=0A=0A=0AOther jazz poems at:=0Ahttp://www.globalvoicesradio.o= rg/paul-nelson_poems.html (Scroll down).=0A =0ASee you in August.=0A=0APaul= =0A=0A=0APaul E. Nelson, M.A. =0A=0AGlobal Voices Radio=0ASPLAB!=0AAmerican= Sentences=0AOrganic Poetry=0APoetry Postcard Blog=0A=0ASlaughter, WA 253.7= 35.6328 or 888.735.6328=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: David Chir= ot =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Sund= ay, July 29, 2007 8:03:18 AM=0ASubject: Re: Mingus & Art Pepper--Still Marr= ied to the Music - New York Times=0A=0A> Two of the giants of Jazz and two = incredible women who've made their own=0A> places in Jazz world--=0A>=0A> i= f you haven't read Laurie and Art Pepper's Straight Life--do=0A>=0A> and sa= me for Mingus' books--=0A>=0A>=0A> On 7/29/07, David Chirot wrote:=0A> >=0A> > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/arts/music/2= 9kapl.html?ref=3Darts ---=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 15:45:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Blackboard Poems for Left Hand, Jackson Mac Low's Wool Hat Redux & more on JBP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Good day! Godan dag! Blackboard Poems for Left Hand, Jackson Mac Low's Hanna Weiner-Richard Kostelanetz Wool Hat Mystery Revisited and other sudden veers into the paranormal are the norm at Joe Brainard's Pyjamas...and I do validate parking...http://joebrainardspyjamas.blogspot.com/. Peace be to all people as it is unto mantids who are vegetarians to boot.... ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:35:55 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Godston Subject: Mingus In-Reply-To: <52845.88642.qm@web56914.mail.re3.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's a great article. Sue Mingus' "Tonight at Noon" is an engrossing read, & Gene Santoro's bio about Mingus, entitled "Myself When I Am Real," is fantastic. On a related note, Vladimir Simosko & Barry Tepperman's "Eric Dolphy: A Musical Biography & Discography" is also a great book. There's a story in there about a Mingus Big Band concert, w/ Dolphy, at Ann Arbor's Once Festival, back in 1964. At the end of the Bob James Trio's set, James threw a brick through a piece of glass. Sounds like something Hugo Ball might've done. Here's Mingus' lyric for "Fables of Faubus": Oh, Lord, don't let 'em shoot us! Oh, Lord, don't let 'em stab us! Oh, Lord, don't let 'em tar and feather us! Oh, Lord, no more swastikas! Oh, Lord, no more Ku Klux Klan! Name me someone who's ridiculous, Dannie. Governor Faubus! Why is he so sick and ridiculous? He won't permit integrated schools. Then he's a fool! Boo! Nazi Fascist supremists! Boo! Ku Klux Klan (with your Jim Crow plan) Name me a handful that's ridiculous, Dannie Richmond. Faubus, Rockefeller, Eisenhower Why are they so sick and ridiculous? Two, four, six, eight: They brainwash and teach you hate. H-E-L-L-O, Hello. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Paul Nelson Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 11:25 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Mingus & Art Pepper--Still Married to the Music - New York Times Excellent article. http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/SOB_S David! Excellent article. http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/SOB_Sonnet_23_(Mingus).htm is a bit of my take on Mingus. The line breaks (notation) is perfect there, but I'll post here too: S.O.B. Sonnet XXIII Mingus, a musical mystic dead in Mexico in ?79 @ 56. He burned clean through & the day they burned his remains 56 whales beached themselves on the Mexican coast & there THEY burned. Burning whale fat in the Mexican sun. Fat smoke filled the Mexican air & Charlie?s ashes painted the Ganges a shade of blue it will NEVER see again. Other jazz poems at: http://www.globalvoicesradio.org/paul-nelson_poems.html (Scroll down). See you in August. Paul Paul E. Nelson, M.A. Global Voices Radio SPLAB! American Sentences Organic Poetry Poetry Postcard Blog Slaughter, WA 253.735.6328 or 888.735.6328 ----- Original Message ---- From: David Chirot To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 8:03:18 AM Subject: Re: Mingus & Art Pepper--Still Married to the Music - New York Times > Two of the giants of Jazz and two incredible women who've made their own > places in Jazz world-- > > if you haven't read Laurie and Art Pepper's Straight Life--do > > and same for Mingus' books-- > > > On 7/29/07, David Chirot wrote: > > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/29/arts/music/29kapl.html?ref=arts --- > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:10:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roberto Harrison Subject: Enemy Rumor poetry reading - 911 W. National Ave., Milwaukee, WI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Hello all! Please come... Enemy Rumor presents a poetry reading by Joel Felix & Paul Martinez Pompa 7:00 PM, Saturday, August 4 @ Walker's Point Center for the Arts 911 W. National Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53204 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 22:27:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline George Bowering wrote: >>Thanks for the news on the documentary. >>I was having some trouble following the above. >>Aren't the Cuban people friends of Venezuela? Hey George, thank you for asking me to clarify that. Well, many Cuban-Americans don't like Castro. My one friend who likes to scream at me (she and I have a fine time! it's all good, we laugh after it's over) comes from that very brand of bourgeois family Castro kicked out of Cuba and sent to Miami. But yes the Cubans in Cuba are fast friends in a larger political family kind of way with Venezuela. Castro sent thousands of doctors to Venezuela. And the standing army in Venezuela actually works (this is kind of incredible) hands-on in the deep rural villages, building health clinics, soup kitchens, etc. Just the other night Amy Goodman showed four young American women who had graduated from medical school in Cuba, and they were SO AMAZING TO LISTEN TO THESE WOMEN! They were excited about coming back to the states to help the poor! OH MY GOD! There are SO MANY medical students in the area where I live and work and they're such assholes most of them. It's like they use me and other service industry folks as some kind of testing ground for their future lives of shitting on other poeple. By the way I'm not sold on Castro, nor his legacy. He's done some pretty fucked up things, as I'm sure we're all aware. But Chavez, so far, seems to mean what he says. And I hope he continues to do so. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 01:36:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: moktak MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed moktak moktak composition for plane, bird, lake, moktak http://www.asondheim.org/moktak.mp4 "Mandala is the impression of the feet." (Hevajratantra) "May I hear the three sounds, may I perceive the three forms." "Having said this to witness I will have been reborn." "Propitiation dies with the insurmountable corpse." "Meditate upon the double entrance of the circle." "The accountancy of rebirth is of no account at all (i.e. nothing)." "All afflictions, all sufferings, extinguished by these words." "The whole of existence, Clear Light and mirror." "Ten directions and no sounds, two directions, semen and blood." "Ten directions, no sounds, the (fierce) corpse is killed." "May I perceive the word of the corpse." "Death is a tautology." "May I perceive the word of death." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 05:56:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Berry Subject: Re: moktak In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why the quotation marks? -a --- Alan Sondheim wrote: > moktak > > moktak composition for plane, bird, lake, moktak > > http://www.asondheim.org/moktak.mp4 > > "Mandala is the impression of the feet." > (Hevajratantra) > > "May I hear the three sounds, may I perceive the > three forms." > > "Having said this to witness I will have been > reborn." > > "Propitiation dies with the insurmountable corpse." > > "Meditate upon the double entrance of the circle." > > "The accountancy of rebirth is of no account at all > (i.e. nothing)." > > "All afflictions, all sufferings, extinguished by > these words." > > "The whole of existence, Clear Light and mirror." > > "Ten directions and no sounds, two directions, semen > and blood." > > "Ten directions, no sounds, the (fierce) corpse is > killed." > > "May I perceive the word of the corpse." > > "Death is a tautology." > > "May I perceive the word of death." > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:08:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <200707282135.l6SLZ5B09283@lma3152.tam.us.siteprotect.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hal "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." --Bertolt Brecht Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:34:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Fw: Yictove passed away. A memorial service will be this Saturday. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit He passed away while reciting poetry. His memorial service is 3PM this Saturday. It is at 3 West 43rd Street, near 8th Avenue. Go to 5th floor. The room it is in is an amphitheater. If you want to say something at the memorial call Viviana Grell at 917 292 2683. Miriam -- -- _______________________________ - Miriam Stanley, Senior Editor - Rogue Scholars Press ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:11:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit CA,I have liked most of what I have heard about Chavez, also.However, I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me more about claims that Chavez is closing off political dissent. From my perspective, that is almost always bad, but perhaps I am missing something. Or perhaps our media is only giving us a very small piece of the picture. Thanks. Mary Kasimor CA Conrad wrote: George Bowering wrote: >>Thanks for the news on the documentary. >>I was having some trouble following the above. >>Aren't the Cuban people friends of Venezuela? Hey George, thank you for asking me to clarify that. Well, many Cuban-Americans don't like Castro. My one friend who likes to scream at me (she and I have a fine time! it's all good, we laugh after it's over) comes from that very brand of bourgeois family Castro kicked out of Cuba and sent to Miami. But yes the Cubans in Cuba are fast friends in a larger political family kind of way with Venezuela. Castro sent thousands of doctors to Venezuela. And the standing army in Venezuela actually works (this is kind of incredible) hands-on in the deep rural villages, building health clinics, soup kitchens, etc. Just the other night Amy Goodman showed four young American women who had graduated from medical school in Cuba, and they were SO AMAZING TO LISTEN TO THESE WOMEN! They were excited about coming back to the states to help the poor! OH MY GOD! There are SO MANY medical students in the area where I live and work and they're such assholes most of them. It's like they use me and other service industry folks as some kind of testing ground for their future lives of shitting on other poeple. By the way I'm not sold on Castro, nor his legacy. He's done some pretty fucked up things, as I'm sure we're all aware. But Chavez, so far, seems to mean what he says. And I hope he continues to do so. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:07:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I too am saddened by the death of Ingmar Bergman. I have scenes from The Seventh Seal playing in my head right now. No one made better films than he did both at his peak and after. I saw many of them, including Sarabande, his last film, which was wonderful. After he stopped making films, he returned to the theater. Every couple of years, he brought his company to the Brooklyn Academy of Music. I'm sorry I never saw any of their productions, particularly one of a play by Schiller. Also, of course, his movie of The Magic Flute, probably the best film of an opera ever made. Regards, Tom Savage Halvard Johnson wrote: Hal "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." --Bertolt Brecht Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html --------------------------------- Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:05:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Andrew Keen on MPR radio this morning In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable am listening to this crap artist live: the show will be archived for a week or so, in case you want to access it. http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/07/30/midmorning2/ 10:06 a.m. Good blog, bad blog One digital media critic claims that user-generated content from bloggers and citizen media is bad for our culture.=20 Guests Andrew Keen: author of "The Cult of the Amateur: How Today's Internet is Killing Our Culture."=20 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:01:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I can think of very few people that have influenced me more, as a young man, than Ingmar Bergman. R.I.P. - Peter Ciccariello On 7/30/07, Halvard Johnson wrote: > Hal > > "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > but a hammer with which to shape it." > --Bertolt Brecht > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > -- Image - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ Word - http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/ Photography - http://uncommonvision.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:52:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard remains. aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Halvard Johnson Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) Hal "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." --Bertolt Brecht Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:27:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: stress fracture In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I often feel this way, too. Still, literature or at least poetry keeps coming. Whether from Brooklyn or the Lower East Side of Manhattan where I am located. Somehow we transcend our surroundings partially by incorporating them with a certain detached perspective which both brings our environment closer to us but keeps it from overwhelming us as well. It's almost a paradox that this happens but fortunately for us, it goes on regardless of what we may think about it. Anyone for a concurrence concussion rather than a fracture? Regards, Tom Savage Alan Sondheim wrote: View This is the view from my desk which is neither in Paris nor the Black Forest; it faces nothing but bleak development, projects, urban wasteland scheduled for drastic over-development, still opposed by Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn (DDDB) in what is increasingly appearing to be a losing battle. How can one expect literature from such blight, nature pushed out to the limit, pigeons with missing toes resulting from frostbite, squir- rels huddled in backyards along with jays and almost invisible mourning doves? Everything protects itself; humans are the dominant species and everything, including other humans, is prey. So don't can't expect literature, only theory crippled by screams and auto accidents; you can't expect proper grammar and spelling - those literary matters - in the face of screeching cars and sirens. http://www.asondheim.org/windowview.jpg --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 07:00:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kimberly jaye Subject: Re: This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks for the news. However, I have to say that, despite the fact that I want to like Chavez, I happen to know from a friend with 30+ years on a very small farm in Venezuela that Chavez is no hero nor are things improving at all for the average citizen despite the rhetoric. Best, Kimber CA Conrad wrote: George Bowering wrote: >>Thanks for the news on the documentary. >>I was having some trouble following the above. >>Aren't the Cuban people friends of Venezuela? Hey George, thank you for asking me to clarify that. Well, many Cuban-Americans don't like Castro. My one friend who likes to scream at me (she and I have a fine time! it's all good, we laugh after it's over) comes from that very brand of bourgeois family Castro kicked out of Cuba and sent to Miami. But yes the Cubans in Cuba are fast friends in a larger political family kind of way with Venezuela. Castro sent thousands of doctors to Venezuela. And the standing army in Venezuela actually works (this is kind of incredible) hands-on in the deep rural villages, building health clinics, soup kitchens, etc. Just the other night Amy Goodman showed four young American women who had graduated from medical school in Cuba, and they were SO AMAZING TO LISTEN TO THESE WOMEN! They were excited about coming back to the states to help the poor! OH MY GOD! There are SO MANY medical students in the area where I live and work and they're such assholes most of them. It's like they use me and other service industry folks as some kind of testing ground for their future lives of shitting on other poeple. By the way I'm not sold on Castro, nor his legacy. He's done some pretty fucked up things, as I'm sure we're all aware. But Chavez, so far, seems to mean what he says. And I hope he continues to do so. CAConrad http://PhillySound.blogspot.com --------------------------------- Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:11:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <601014.80657.qm@web31114.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Almost equally enthralling and film-like is his autobiography - The Magic Lantern. aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Thomas savage Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 11:08 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) I too am saddened by the death of Ingmar Bergman. I have scenes from The Seventh Seal playing in my head right now. No one made better films than he did both at his peak and after. I saw many of them, including Sarabande, his last film, which was wonderful. After he stopped making films, he returned to the theater. Every couple of years, he brought his company to the Brooklyn Academy of Music. I'm sorry I never saw any of their productions, particularly one of a play by Schiller. Also, of course, his movie of The Magic Flute, probably the best film of an opera ever made. Regards, Tom Savage ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:15:53 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Fwd: ASSERTION: Online Journal of Art and Action Comments: To: Theory and Writing , spidertangle@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Begin forwarded message: > From: "kathartes_aura" > Date: July 28, 2007 10:56:54 AM CDT > To: oddmusic@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [oddmusic] ASSERTION: Online Journal of Art and Action > Reply-To: oddmusic@yahoogroups.com > > ASSERTION > > Surrealists, Dadaists, Modernists, Noise Makers, Poets, > Expressionists and > Critical Thinkers > > Seeking artists of various media, and writers for the premier issue of > Assertion, a bi-montly reaction of Art and Action. For a full > description > and submission guidelines see our website. > > http://www.aspectarts.com > > Looking for photography, montage, collage, automatic writing, > intentional > painting, sound art, video, abstraction and exaltation of the > 'real'. Use > your imagination and send us a bit of it. > > You must be 18 or over to submit material; all work must be > original. No > submission fee. Email Submission. > > Deadline: September 1, 2007 > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <003b01c7d2b0$d0eabbf0$ea2c7a92@net.plm.eds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > remains. > > aryanil > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > Hal > > "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > but a hammer with which to shape it." > --Bertolt Brecht > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:31:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Waber Subject: ars poetica update Comments: To: announce MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The ars poetica project continues to whomp at: http://www.logolalia.com/arspoetica/ Poems appeared last week by: Peter Boyle, Anny Ballardini, Skip Fox, and Lyn Lifshin. Poems will appear this week by: Lyn Lifshin, and Marilyn Taylor. A new poem about poetry every day, by invitation only (but thanks for asking). Enjoy, Dan ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:24:12 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 you forgot Tarkovsky... No one made films like he did. It was like holding = your breath. But Bergman, what an utter loss.=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Aryanil Mukherjee" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:52:06 -0400 >=20 >=20 > thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > remains. >=20 > aryanil >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >=20 > Hal >=20 > "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > but a hammer with which to shape it." > --Bertolt Brecht >=20 > Halvard Johnson > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > =3D Codi Laptop and Notebook Cases Free Ground Shipping on Cases & 30% - 40% Off Security & Accessories. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D0642c5de842d86ab98576= 2d813d314c0 --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:42:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: Yictove passed away. A memorial service will be this Saturday. In-Reply-To: <20070730.114243.2044.9.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.poetz.com/2000/yictovemp3.htm some audio of Yictove reading in '00...=20 -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of steve d. dalachinsky Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 10:35 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Fw: Yictove passed away. A memorial service will be this Saturday. He passed away while reciting poetry. His memorial service is 3PM this=20 Saturday. It is at 3 West 43rd Street, near 8th Avenue. Go to 5th floor. The room it is in is an amphitheater. If you want to say something at the memorial call Viviana Grell at 917=20 292 2683. =20 =20 Miriam --=20 --=20 _______________________________ - Miriam Stanley, Senior Editor - Rogue Scholars Press ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:37:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Killian and Bellamy reading in Portland Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Thursday, August 9, 7 p.m. the Clinton Corner Cafe 2633 SE 21st Ave. at the corner of 21st SE and Clinton St. two blocks off Division St. http://www.clintoncornercafe.net/home_index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:15:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Diane DiPrima Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70707300915g7510bc76kb598fd721570e9b7@mail.gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. And Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > From: Anny Ballardini > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > To: > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard >> remains. >> >> aryanil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> Hal >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >> but a hammer with which to shape it." >> --Bertolt Brecht >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. Mark At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. And >Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > > > > From: Anny Ballardini > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > > To: > > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son > > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > > > > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > >> remains. > >> > >> aryanil > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >> > >> Hal > >> > >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > >> but a hammer with which to shape it." > >> --Bertolt Brecht > >> > >> Halvard Johnson > >> ================ > >> halvard@earthlink.net > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > >> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:01:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dreyer, Bresson... maybe the Magic 5 should be expanded to ten? J. A. Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diane DiPrima" To: Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 2:15 PM Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. And > Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > > >> From: Anny Ballardini >> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >> To: >> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son >> gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >> >> On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. >>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard >>> remains. >>> >>> aryanil >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>> --Bertolt Brecht >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard@earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>> ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:46:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Killian and Bellamy reading in Portland In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Damn! I'll be at a barbecue in Vancouver tonight. Wish I could be in Portland. If yr nearby--get there. gb On Jul 30, 2007, at 11:37 AM, Dodie Bellamy wrote: > Thursday, August 9, 7 p.m. > the Clinton Corner Cafe > 2633 SE 21st Ave. > at the corner of 21st SE and Clinton St. > two blocks off Division St. > > http://www.clintoncornercafe.net/home_index.html > > G. Bowering Knows which door the tiger's behind. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Chirot Subject: Raw War Scores words & sounds from the Wars on Poverty, Drugs & Terror MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Linnemans 743 E Locust Milwaukee, WI 9 PM David Chirot Reading "Raw War Scores" Stories, Poems & Sound Poems of the Wars on Poverty, Drugs & Terror $5.00 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:58:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dillon Westbrook Subject: paratactics for the masses In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not even sure what to make of this, so I thought I'd let the list =20 sort it out- headline from AP today: Wis. Man Gets Top Prize for Bad Prose A Wisconsin man whose blend of awkward syntax, imminent disaster and =20 bathroom humor offends both good taste and the English language won =20 an annual contest Monday that salutes bad writing. Jim Gleeson, 47, of Madison, Wis., beat out thousands of other prose =20 manglers in San Jose State University's 2007 Bulwer-Lytton Fiction =20 Contest with this convoluted opening sentence to a nonexistent novel: "Gerald began =97 but was interrupted by a piercing whistle which cost =20= him ten percent of his hearing permanently, as it did everyone else =20 in a ten-mile radius of the eruption, not that it mattered much =20 because for them 'permanently' meant the next ten minutes or so until =20= buried by searing lava or suffocated by choking ash =97 to pee," =20 Gleeson wrote. Scott Rice, an English professor at San Jose State, called Gleeson's =20 entry a "syntactic atrocity" that displays "a peculiar set of =20 standards or values." Rice has organized the contest since founding =20 it in 1982. Gleeson, who works at a Madison hospital setting up computer =20 networks, said he submitted about 20 entries, and gave a little =20 insight into what it takes to win the bad writing title and its $250 =20 prize. "It's like you take two thoughts that are not anything like each =20 other and you cram them together by any means necessary," Gleeson =20 said. He claimed he took time off from his current project, a self-=20 help book for slackers entitled "Self-Improvement Through Total =20 Inactivity," to pen his winning entry. Gleeson credited his time in college with preparing him well. =20 "There's a certain degree to which academia prepares you to write =20 badly," Gleeson said wryly. The contest takes its name from Victorian novelist Edward George Earl =20= Bulwer-Lytton, whose 1830 novel "Paul Clifford" famously begins "It =20 was a dark and stormy night." Entrants are asked to submit bad opening sentences to imaginary =20 novels. Citations are handed out for several categories, including =20 "dishonorable mention" awards for "purple prose" and "vile puns."= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:31:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Did the New York School invent alternative comics? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See:http://garysullivan.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Missed the show?=A0 Watch videos of the Live Earth Concert on MSN. http://liveearth.msn.com= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:02:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: the politics of Venezuela, In-Reply-To: <76926.7100.qm@web33212.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 30, 2007, at 7:00 AM, kimberly jaye wrote: > Thanks for the news. > However, I have to say that, despite the fact that I want to like > Chavez, I happen to know from a friend with 30+ years on a very small > farm in Venezuela that Chavez is no hero nor are things improving at > all for the average citizen despite the rhetoric. > > Best, > Kimber I think we have learned that you can't tell what is happening in a country from the anecdotal report of one person. > George Harry Bowering, Never got his share. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:05:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: This may open up some kind of debate about the politics of Venezuela, etc., but that's fine with me. What I want to say is that the documentary my good friends at the Global Women's Strike have produced and directed called VENEZUELA: JOURNEY WITH THE In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 29, 2007, at 8:27 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > > > Just the other night Amy Goodman showed four young American women who > had > graduated from medical school in Cuba, and they were SO AMAZING TO > LISTEN TO > THESE WOMEN! They were excited about coming back to the states to > help the > poor! OH MY GOD! There are SO MANY medical students in the area > where I > live and work and they're such assholes most of them. It's like they > use me > and other service industry folks as some kind of testing ground for > their > future lives of shitting on other poeple. Yep. Remember what happened during the flood of New Orleans? Fidel offered to sent medical crews to help out. Said he would send all their own food and housing, no expense to the USA. What did Bush do? > George B. Author of his own misfortunes. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:00:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Venezuela, In-Reply-To: <673694.24243.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On Jul 30, 2007, at 8:11 AM, Mary Kasimor wrote: > CA,I have liked most of what I have heard about Chavez, also.However, > I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me more about claims that Chavez > is closing off political dissent. I expect that neither Fidel nor his allies are ideal critters. But Cuba and Venezuela are certainly spearheading the current leftward turn of South America. I don't know, for example, how much the typical USA newspaper or television news will cover what is happening in Uruguay or Ecuador, but Chavez is certainly one of the hopeful signs that Latin American countries can start to escape control by US military and industry. > George Cletis Bowering Slow to anger. Well, slow about everything. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:14:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nada Gordon Subject: A review of _Folly_ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" by D.J. Huppatz: "Gordon's inclusive carnival flattens ... hierarchies and allows for all kinds of odd imaginary interactions. Provocative and engaging, Folly constitutes a complex critique of the contemporary American image-world of reductive consumer "choice" (BANJO or OUD, Coke or Pepsi, good or evil) with no clear winners. 'Minty swirl of mutant life / in jerk and lunge /of futile strife.' ("Extreme Smile Makeover") American poetry for the 21st century?" http://djhuppatz.blogspot.com/2007/07/on-folly.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:13:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: moktak In-Reply-To: <178678.31068.qm@web53308.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Because as if spoken, i.e. an ontological performative. The first quote is from the Hevajratantra. - Alan On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Audrey Berry wrote: > Why the quotation marks? > -a > --- Alan Sondheim wrote: > >> moktak >> >> moktak composition for plane, bird, lake, moktak >> >> http://www.asondheim.org/moktak.mp4 >> >> "Mandala is the impression of the feet." >> (Hevajratantra) >> >> "May I hear the three sounds, may I perceive the >> three forms." >> >> "Having said this to witness I will have been >> reborn." >> >> "Propitiation dies with the insurmountable corpse." >> >> "Meditate upon the double entrance of the circle." >> >> "The accountancy of rebirth is of no account at all >> (i.e. nothing)." >> >> "All afflictions, all sufferings, extinguished by >> these words." >> >> "The whole of existence, Clear Light and mirror." >> >> "Ten directions and no sounds, two directions, semen >> and blood." >> >> "Ten directions, no sounds, the (fierce) corpse is >> killed." >> >> "May I perceive the word of the corpse." >> >> "Death is a tautology." >> >> "May I perceive the word of death." >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search > that gives answers, not web links. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: on our earth, the killdeer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed on our earth, the killdeer we are on earth for such a shorttime, we have no more than a picture. the picture is what we think of when we say, 'the way things are.' just yesterday or tomorrow, something new, perhaps a bee. the bee pollinates a flower shortly after our death. there is a storm somewhere. just now, i am beginning to understand the alarm calls of the killdeer. the ghost of a shorebird, the feint, the run, the back and forth. everything, everyone, lives in a different world. i can say this because the image is always a sad image, the image is in mourning for our death. http://www.asondheim.org/killdeeralarm.mp3 like neural signals, the killdeer calls are a mix of analog and digital phenomenology - their frequency is very narrow, and the repetitions of standard (most likely territorial or display) calls are easily comprehen- ded - at least they appear to be (the cry of the killdeer is easily iden- tified) - on the other hand, there are temporal processes, non-standard pitch and repetition, which present information, in this case alarm based on distance, degree of threat, etc. - as far as i can tell - which means nothing at all - on the sample you hear both calls and responses and the changes within individual calls as well. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC: Welcome to Boog City Poetry and Music Festival Begins This Thursday Comments: To: "UB Poetics discussion group "@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward --------------------- Hi all, =20 This Thurs. Aug. 2-Sun. Aug. 5 we'll be putting on Welcome to Boog City, a poetry and music festival. The schedule for the event is below this note, followed by performer bios and websites. You can view the pdf version, replete with performer pics at our website: http://welcometoboogcity.com/boogpdfs/wbcprogram2007.pdf And check out our website, in progress, and read back issues of Boog City (and the current one, too): http://welcometoboogcity.com/ Hope you can make it down to the festival. as ever, David =20 ------------- =20 THURSDAY AUGUST 2, 6:00 P.M. =20 d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press =20 Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio)=20 =20 Thurs. Aug. 2, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free =20 ACA Galleries 529 W.20th St., 5th Flr. NYC =20 Event will be hosted by Pavement Saw Press editor David Baratier =20 =20 Featuring=20 =20 Tony Gloeggler Simon Perchik Rachel M. Simon Daniel Zimmerman =20 music from turntablists Dr. Benstock =20 There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. =20 Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues =20 =20 FRIDAY AUGUST 3, 7:30 P.M. =20 Sidewalk Caf=E9 94 Ave. A, NYC free with a two-drink minimum =20 Readings and musical performances =20 7:30 p.m.-Lauren Russell 7:45 p.m.-Mark Lamoureux 8:00 p.m.-Rachel Lipson (music) 8:30 p.m.-Joanna Fuhrman 9:00 p.m.-I Feel Tractor 9:30 p.m.-Thomas Devaney 9:50 p.m.-The Passenger Pigeons (n=E9 The Sparrows) 10:35 p.m.-David Baratier 11:00 p.m.-The Leader 12:00 a.m.-Nan and the Charley Horses =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E.6th St. =20 =20 SATURDAY AUGUST 4, 11:00 A.M., 5:00 P.M. =20 Cakeshop 152 Ludlow St. NYC =20 11:00 a.m. =20 4th Annual Small, Small Press Fair Free =20 Small press fair, this year with indie records and crafts, too. Featuring 1= 5 on the 15=B9s=8Ba 15-minute musical performance at the fair each hour on the 15=B9s: =20 11:15 a.m.-Bob Kerr 12:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr 1:15 p.m.-Bob Kerr =20 2:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 3:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty 4:15 p.m.-Sean T. Hanratty =20 =20 5:00 p.m.=20 Political poets and The Fugs, Village Fugs live $5 =20 =20 5:15 p.m.-Amy King 5:30 p.m.-Nathaniel Siegel 5:45 p.m.-Christina Strong 6:00 p.m.-Ian Wilder 6:15 p.m.-Frank Sherlock 6:30 p.m.-CAConrad 6:50 p.m.-Greg Fuchs 7:05 p.m.-Kristin Prevallet 7:20 p.m.-Eliot Katz 7:35 p.m.-Rodrigo Toscano and his Collapsible Poetics Theater 7:55 p.m.-The Fugs, Village Fugs. Performed live by: =20 *I Feel Tractor 1. Slum Goddess 2. Ah, Sunflower Weary of Time =20 *Scott MX Turner 3. Supergirl=20 4. Swinburne Stomp=20 =20 *Paul Cama 5. I Couldn't Get High 6. How Sweet I Roamed From Field to Field =20 *The Actual Feelings 7. Carpe Diem=20 8. My Baby Done Left Me =20 *JUANBURGUESA 9. Boobs a Lot =20 *Huggabroomstik 10. Nothing =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave. Venue is bet. Stanton and Rivington sts. =20 =20 SUNDAY AUGUST 5, 1:30 P.M., 3:45 P.M. =20 Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery NYC $5 =20 1:30 p.m. The Future of Small Press Publishing curated and moderated by Mitch Highfill =20 featuring =20 David Baratier, editor Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio) Bob Hershon, co-editor Hanging Loose Press Brenda Iijima, editor Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs (Brooklyn) Jill Stengel, editor a+bend press (Davis, Calif.) =20 =20 3:45 p.m. Readings and musical performances =20 3:45 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra 4:15 p.m.-Kimberly Lyons 4:30 p.m.-Gary Sullivan 4:45 p.m.-Brenda Iijima =20 5:00 p.m.- break =20 5:15 p.m.-The Poetics Orchestra 5:35 p.m.-Jill Stengel 5:55 p.m.-Mitch Highfill 6:10 p.m.-Nada Gordon 6:25 p.m.-Sean Cole =20 =20 Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., 6 to Bleecker Venue is at E.1st St. =20 --------------- =20 **Welcome to Boog City Bios and Websites** =20 *Thursday =20 **David Baratier http://www.pavementsaw.org/pages/editor.htm http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/dabaratier.htm http://herecomeseverybody.blogspot.com/2005/12/from-his-birth-in-1970-many-= b elieved.html Although he has appeared in print since 1986, in 1991 David Baratier met th= e poet laureate of New York State, at which point the powers of poetry were bestowed to him in a macabre ceremony. Shortly thereafter he became a full time poet. Many believe his previous life is fiction. He and his fine lady Rita, a former model, who has appeared in films such as Traffic, live in th= e deep south end of Columbus, Ohio, where his catty-corner neighbors ask to mow his lawn nightly for $2. He has given featured readings at the Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church, University of Pittsburgh, DC Arts Center, and Small Press Traffic, among others. He is the editor of Pavement Saw Press. His poems are anthologized in American Poetry: the Next Generation (Carnegi= e Mellon University Press), Clockpunchers: Poetry of the American Workplace (Partisan Press), Green Meanies (University of California Press), and Red, White & Blues (University of Iowa Press). His poetry collections include A Run of Letters (Poetry New York Press), The Fall Of Because (Pudding House)= , Estrella=B9s Prophecies I: Spinning the Wheel of Fortune (Runaway Spoon Press), Estrella=B9s Prophecies II: An American Fortune in Paris (Anabasis/Extant), Estrella=B9s Prophecies III: Return of the Magi (Luna Bisonte Productions), and the epistolary and prose novel In It What=B9s in It (Spuyten Duyvil). His forthcoming collections include after Celan (Slack Buddha Press) and Ugly American. =20 **Dr. Benstock http://www.drbenstock.com http://www.myspace.com/drbenstock Dr. Benstock is a turntable duo, in the tradition of Christian Marclay and Philip Jeck. Using Califone and PAC turntables and records found in Salvation Army bins, turntablists John McDonough and Paul Spencer have created a number of structured pieces, as well as improvisations, referencing the entire universe of recorded music. At any given Benstock performance one may hear the Clash, Berlioz, Sid Vicious, Frank Sinatra, Ar= t Blakey, Charles Mingus, Charles Nelson Reilly, Palestrina, self-hypnosis instructions, Bach, Portuguese poetry, Penderecki, and Van Halen. These records are mixed as a collage but never haphazardly. They are combined to make unique compositions in their own right. =20 Dr. Benstock has been together since 1992. They have played venues such as ABC No Rio, the Pourhouse, Tonic, the Knitting Factory, SUNY-Stony Brook, and Collective Unconscious in the N.Y.-metropolitan area, and Caf=E9 Koko in Greenfield, Mass. =20 **Tony Gloeggler Tony Gloeggler was born, lived, lives, and expects to die in some part of NYC. He manages a group home for developmentally disabled men in one of the suddenly too cool parts of Brooklyn. His first chapbook, One On One, won th= e Pearl Poetry Prize, and Jane Street Press put out My Other Life. One Wish Left (Pavement Saw Press) recently went into its second edition. =20 **Simon Perchik http://www.geocities.com/simonthepoet Simon Perchik is an attorney whose poems have appeared in The New Yorker, Partisan Review, and Pavement Saw, among others. Family of Man (Pavement Sa= w Press) and Rafts (Parsifal Editions) are forthcoming in 2007. For more information, including his essay =B3Magic, Illusion, and Other Realities=B2 and a complete bibliography, please visit his website. =20 **Rachel M. Simon http://www.myspace.com/theoryoforange http://www.chicagopostmodernpoetry.com/rsimon.htm Rachel M. Simon lives in Yonkers, N.Y., where she teaches writing to high school and college students, senior citizens, and maximum-security prison inmates. Her book Theory of Orange won the Transcontinental Prize from Pavement Saw Press. =20 **Daniel Zimmerman Daniel Zimmerman teaches at Middlesex County College in Edison, N.J., where he chairs the English department. He served as associate editor of the issu= e of Anonym that first published Ezra Pound=B9s last canto and edited the single-issue magazines The Western Gate and Brittannia. The Institute of Further Studies included his fascicle, Perspective, in its series, a curriculum of the soul. He collaborated with American-Canadian artist Richard Sturm on a livre deluxe, See All The People, lithographs, serigraph= s and embossings (Open Studio/ Scarborough College). In 1997 he invented an anagrammatical poetic form, Isotopes. His works include the trans-temporal collaboration blue horitals (Oasii), with John Clarke; ISOTOPES (Frame Publications); Post-Avant (Pavement Saw Press), with an introduction by Robert Creeley; and, forthcoming, ISOTOPES2 (Beard of Bees). His work has recently appeared in Chain, Chelsea, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, ETC: A Review o= f General Semantics, An Exaltation of Forms, House Organ, New York Quarterly, Snakeskin, and Tinfish. =20 =20 Friday =20 **David Baratier (see Thursday for bio) =20 **Thomas Devaney http://www.writing.upenn.edu/~wh/devaney.html http://thomasdevaney.blogspot.com/ Thomas Devaney is the author of A Series of Small Boxes (Fish Drum Press). He presented "No Silence Here, Enjoy the Silence" this spring at the Institute of Contemporary Art in Philadelphia for the "Locally Localized Gravity" show. Devaney writes about poetry for The Philadelphia Inquirer. Recent work has appeared in Jubilat, The Poetry Project Newsletter, and The Sienese Shredder. He is a Penn Senior Writing Fellow in the English department at the University of Pennsylvania. =20 **Joanna Fuhrman http://www.hangingloosepress.com/recent.html http://www.poetryfoundation.org/archive/poem.html?id=3D179254 Joanna Fuhrman is the author of three books of poetry, Freud in Brooklyn, Ugh Ugh Ocean, and Moraine, all from Hanging Loose Press. =20 **I Feel Tractor http://www.myspace.com/ifeeltractor http://www.goodbyebetter.com I feel tractor is available to you with musings of space folk and cut ups. = I feel tractor has a self-titled 7" from the Loudmouth Collective, and a CD, Once I Had an Earthquake, from Goodbye Better. =20 **Mark Lamoureux http://www.marklamoureux.com Mark Lamoureux lives in Astoria, Queens. Spuyten Duyvil/Meeting Eyes Binder= y published his first full-length collection, Astrometry Organon, earlier thi= s year. He is the author of four chapbooks: Traceland, 29 Cheeseburgers, Film Poems, and City/Temple. His work has appeared in print and online in Carve, Coconut, Conduit, Denver Quarterly, Fence, GutCult, Jubilat, Lungfull!, Melancholia=B9s Tremulous Dreadlocks, miPoesias, and Mustachioed, among others. He started Cy Gist Press, a micropress focusing on ekphrastic poetry, in 2006. He is an associate editor for Fulcrum Annual, printed matter editor for Boog City, and teaches English at Kingsborough Community College.=20 =20 **The Leader http://olivejuicemusic.com/theleader.html The Leader rock out with the dynamic grace of two sonic gymnasts (in formal attire). Careening through a thousand time signatures and pop genres, bassist Julie DeLano and drummer Sam Lazzara reign supreme over the low end= , with suspenseful rhythmic patterns beneath wickedly clever melodies and lyrics. It would be math rock if it weren't so soulful =8A yeah. =20 **Rachel Lipson http://www.rachellipson.org http://www.myspace.com/rachellipson Rachel Lipson is a Brooklyn-based songwriter who performs her simple, hones= t songs on guitar, ukulele and banjo. Born near Detroit, she spent her childhood building forts with her brother and sister in the living room, contemplating the dangers of the dark and pizza deliverers, riding horses and playing with friends. Rachel first picked up a guitar at age 16 and a few years later, after having moved to New York, began crafting the songs that would make up her first album, This Way, which she self-released the next year. =20 In 2003 Rachel released a 7" with Rough Trade recording artist Jeffrey Lewis, on Holland's Nowhere Fast record label and self-released her second album Some More Songs. She toured Europe for seven weeks with Lewis and Herman D=FCne in the summer, including the Mofo festival in Paris in July. In the fall, Rachel recorded a new album at Olive Juice Studios in New York fo= r the forthcoming release Pastures on Meccico Records, a U.K. label founded and run by members of Cornershop. Rachel is returning to the studio to record the first album of her side project, The Scruffles, with bandmate Jeffrey Lewis. =20 In the last few years, Rachel has collaborated and performed extensively with Leah Hayes (of La Laque and Scary Mansion), Herman D=FCne, and others. She has also played alongside Eugene Chadbourne, Kimya Dawson, Daniel Johnston, The Mountain Goats, and Refrigerator, as well as twice performing live on WFMU in New Jersey and on WNYC, a division of NPR. =20 Rachel Lipson's music combines a sort of radical simplicity and honesty wit= h intricately woven narratives. The lyrics seem to have as much to do with William Faulkner as they do with Woody Guthrie. The music recalls the earliest folk traditions and yet speaks at the same time to a contemporary minimal aesthetic. While sometimes the approach is blindingly direct and at others masterfully oblique, the overall effect is irresistible, one of invitingly gentle beauty and clarity. (Biography by Blue Bomber Press) =20 **Nan and the Charley Horses http://www.olivejuicemusic.com/nan.html http://www.myspace.com/nanturner Vocally, she's the missing link between Kathleen Hanna and Juliana Hatfield= , with a wail matched only by her whisper. The Lucy Ricardo of indie rock, he= r zany, goof-ball spirit is cut only by the fierce sexuality of her drumming style (see Schwervon!). Raised on the outskirts of Olympia, Nan was studyin= g theater when the riot grrrl movement seduced her into a life of rock =B9n' roll. After several years with the power-pop girl band Bionic Finger, Nan went solo with her jangly, eclectic EP Leg Out, but her one-woman act soon morphed into the all-girl Pantsuit. After touring the U.K. with their French-released The Path From the House to the Lawn, Pantsuit has established itself as a virtual gland of playful melodies, moody sounds, an= d old-school feminist ferocity. =20 Presently, Nan is writing songs on keys and guitar and experimenting live with a rotating cast of musicians she has coined the One Night Stands. Her new EP, For Champs and Losers, Version 1, is out now on Olive Juice Music. =20 **The Passenger Pigeons http://myspace.com/rachelandrew Andrew Phillip Tipton met Rachel Talentino in Savannah while working at The Gap. A common love for catchy melodies, Carole King, and boys led them to Brooklyn. As The Passenger Pigeons (n=E9 The Sparrows), Andrew and Rachel mak= e up the cutest anti-folk duo around! Simple and lovely. =20 **Lauren Russell Lauren Russell is now at the mercy of an idiopathic need to enter language and manipulate it. Her poetry has appeared in Boog City, The Recluse, and Van Gogh's Ear, among others. She is writing an experimental novella. =20 =20 Saturday =20 **The Actual Feelings The Actual Feelings are an assemblage of egos, chopped separately and throw= n together to make a tasty gazpacho. Their ingredient list is elastic. For this Fugs tribute they will most likely consist of Steve Espinola, Debby Schwartz, Heather Hoover, Andy Gilchrist, Erica Simonian, Andrew Rohn, and Catherine Capellero, with some cilantro, tomatoes, and peppers. The Actual Feelings manifesto calls for the immediate release of the complete 1965 Fug= s sessions, including, but not limited to, the out-of-print recordings once found on Virgin Fugs, Fugs Four Rounders Score, and the alternate, primitive, Broadside LP release of The Village Fugs. The Actual Feelings have yet to hear the song "Bull Tongue Clit" and need to at once. =20 **Paul Cama Paul Cama started to play drums at 14, performing all kinds of music from jazz to blues to pop. He plays jazz in a big band in St. James. He was in the folk rock Americana band Nylon & Steel from 1989-1997. They released th= e album Slip Behind the Molecule in 1995. Cama also is a singer-songwriter guitarist and occasionally play solo gigs. He is playing drums in the impro= v band The Center For Hearing & Dizziness, which improves new sounds to vintage films in the tradition of silent movies. They will be releasing their first full-length DVD/CD later this year. =20 **CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/CAConrad CAConrad=B9s childhood included selling cut flowers along the highway for his mother and helping her shoplift. He escaped to Philadelphia the first chanc= e he got, where he lives and writes today with the PhillySound poet (www.phillysound.blogspot.com). Soft Skull Press published his book Deviant Propulsions last year. =20 **Greg Fuchs http://www.gregfuchs.com Greg Fuchs is a multi-disciplinary artist living in The Bronx. He works in = a variety of media including audio, digital, photography, poetry, and prose often placed in alternative art spaces including independent media organizations, non-profit galleries, and small press magazines. His latest work is Metropolitan Transit published by Brooklyn-based publisher Isabel Lettres. =20 **Sean T. Hanratty http://www.myspace.com/seanthanratty Sean T. Hanratty is straight outta Brooklyn and on his way into your shower= , by way of you singing his memorably melodic and incredibly enchanting songs in the shower, of course. =20 **Huggabroomstik http://www.huggabroomstik.com http://myspace.com/lehuggacoustique Neil and Dashan started Huggabroomstik on January 7, 2001. The original nam= e they went by was "Toenail Fungus Clippings Up Your A$$ho1e Bi+ch." The firs= t song they came up with was "You Ask For Peanuts, You Get Popcorn, Bi+ch," which featured Benny Hadley singing through the telephone. Huggabroomstik has gone through a lot of changes through the past couple of years, but one thing that will never change is their love for the rock. Not Rock & Roll, but crack rock. So far, Huggabroomstik has been content playing shows in an= d around NYC, but they dream of making it all the way to Nashville. =20 **Juanburguesa http://myspace.com/jonathanberger Jonathan Berger writes about music, reads poetry, and eats Twinkies. In between these, he sometimes performs with his band, Juanburguesa. =20 **Eliot Katz Eliot Katz is the author of five books of poetry, including, most recently, When the Skyline Crumbles: Poems for the Bush Years (Cosmological Knot Press), View from the Big Woods: Poems from North America's Skull (Cosmological Knot Press), and Unlocking The Exits (Coffee House Press). A cofounder, with Danny Shot, of Long Shot literary journal, Katz guest-edite= d the journal's 2004 "Beat Bush issue." He is also a coeditor, with Allen Ginsberg and Andy Clausen, of Poems for the Nation (Seven Stories Press). Called "another classic New Jersey bard" by Ginsberg, Katz worked for many years as a housing advocate for Central Jersey homeless families. He lives in New York City, and works as a freelance writer and editor. =20 **Robert Kerr Robert Kerr is a playwright and songwriter living in Brooklyn. He wrote the book and lyrics for the short musical The Sticky-Fingered Fianc=E9e, and the songs for his plays Kingdom Gone and Meet Uncle Casper, as well as his Brothers Grimm adaptations Bearskin and The Juniper Tree. He was a founding member of the Minneapolis band Alien Detector. =20 **Amy King http://www.amyking.org http://www.mipoesias.com http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/poetics/welcome.html Amy King is the author of I=B9m the Man Who Loves You (BlazeVOX Books), Antidotes for an Alibi (BlazeVOX Books), and The People Instruments (Pavement Saw Press). She teaches creative writing and English at Nassau Community College, is the editor-in-chief for the literary arts journal MiPOesias, and is also a member of the Poetics List Editorial Board. =20 **Kristin Prevallet http://www.kayvallet.com Kristin Prevallet's most recent book is I, Afterlife: Essay in Mourning Tim= e (Essay Press). She is a 2007 NYFA poetry fellow and lives in Brooklyn. =20 **Frank Sherlock Frank Sherlock is the author of 13 (ixnay press), ISO (furniture press), an= d the forthcoming collection Ace of Diamond Satellite. He curates the Night Flag reading series & is the co-founder of PACE (Poet Activist Community Extension). He lives in Philadelphia. **Nathaniel Siegel Nathaniel Siegel is a poet, artist, and activist. He is a volunteer at The Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church in the Bowery and an advisor to Study Abroad on the Bowery at The Bowery Poetry Club. His work has been included in Art Around the Park at The Howl Festival, and group shows at the Leslie Lohman Gallery in SoHo. Poets for Peace, Poets Against the War, and Acts of Art are all groups he supports. He is also a member of ACT UP NYC and the Queer Justice League. His first chapbook is forthcoming from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 **Christina Strong http://www.xtina.org http://www.openmouth.org http:///www.bookwhore.com Christina Strong is a poet and designer who lives in Red Hook, Brooklyn. Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs published her chapbook, [Anti-Erato] and Faux Press her e-book Utopian Politics. Her poems have appeared in Boog City, Jacket, Magazine CyPress, POM2, and Shampoo, among others. She is the edito= r of Openmouth Press and the politics editor of Boog City, as well as managin= g the above websites. =20 **Rodrigo Toscano http://www.woodlandpattern.org/poems/rodrigo_toscano01.shtml Rodrigo Toscano is the author of To Leveling Swerve, Platform, The Disparities, and Partisans. Toscano is also the artistic coordinator of the Collapsible Poetics Theater. His experimental poetics plays, polyvocalic pieces, masques, anti-masques, and radio plays have recently been performed at Los Angeles=B9 Disney Redcat Theater; the Ontological Theater Poets Plays Festival; New Langton Arts Space in San Francisco; Vancouver, Canada; Teubingen, Germany; the Poet=B9s Theater Jamboree 2007 at the California College of the Arts Auditorium, and, most recently, at the Yockadot Poetics Theater Festival in Alexandria, Va. His poetic works have been translated into French, German, Portuguese, and Italian. Toscano is originally from th= e Borderlands of California. He lives in Greenpoint township of Brooklyn, and works in Manhattan at the Labor Institute. =20 **Scott M.X. Turner http://www.fansforfairplay.com http://www.dddb.net Scott M.X. Turner's quarter-century of musical output has involved punk roc= k bands (The Spunk Lads, The Service), Irish punk (The Devil's Advocates), sk= a (one tumultuous tour with Bad Manners), soundtrack music for films (a bunch of documentaries), and his one-man/one-guitar assemblage, RebelMart, is currently recording its new album Brooklyn Is Dying. Turner's writings have appeared in Boog City, Elysian Fields Quarterly, Lurch, and others. As a coordinator of Fans For Fair Play and a steering committee member of Develo= p Don't Destroy Brooklyn, Turner's joined thousands to fight overdevelopment in NYC, starting with Bruce Ratner's disastrous Atlantic Yards project. He lives with archeologist Diane George and the dogs Sirius and Tikkanen near Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn. =20 **Ian Wilder http://www.onthewilderside.net Ian Wilder=B9s life has always veered between art and politics. On the cultural side, he has published chapbooks; given dozens of poetry readings; wrote newspaper articles; and hosted events. At a master class, Yevegeny Yevtushenko proclaimed that Ian=B9s snowflake poem is perfect. He has performed spoken word as a part of the near-mythic folk groovin=B9 band Nylon & Steel, and was co-founding lyricist for the duo Spiritwalkers. His work with Nylon & Steel can be found on the album Slip Behind the Molecule. =20 With Nader=B9s 2000 presidential campaign, Wilder was drawn back into politics. Within four years he co-founded the Babylon Greens at his kitchen table, helped run the first full ticket of Greens in his town=B9s history, gotten elected secretary of his county Green Party and then co-chair of the Green Party of New York State. He currently represents Long Island to the GPUS Presidential Campaign Support Committee. =20 Wilder also co-hosts The Green Party Show, a weekly public access TV show, which you can also see posted at his blog. Some of the events he helped organize this year are documented there, including a local UFPJ Peace Vigil= , a pro-day laborer/Love Thy Neighbor Rally, and a Step-It-Up 2007 event at the Solar Cafe. =20 =20 [Sunday =20 **David Baratier (see Thursday for bio) =20 **Sean Cole http://www.shampoopoetry.com/ShampooTwentyfour/coles.html Sean Cole is the author of the chapbooks By the Author (Boog Literature) an= d Itty City (Pressed Wafer), Boog's first full-length, single-author collection The December Project. His work has appeared in Black Clock, Carve, Magazine Cypress, Pavement Saw, Pom Pom, and Torch. Cole also writes stories for public radio and bios like this one. =20 **Nada Gordon http://ululate.blogspot.com Nada Gordon is the author of five books, including the recently released Folly from Roof Books. She lives happily on Ocean Parkway with the cartoonist and poet Gary Sullivan. =20 **Mitch Highfill http://www.fauxpress.com/e/highfill.pdf Mitch Highfill is the author of Koenig's Sphere, and the forthcoming Rebis (Open Mouth Press). =20 **Brenda Iijima http://www.yoyolabs.com Brenda Iijima is the author of Around Sea (O Books). Her book of drawings, collages, and poems, Animate, Inanimate Aims, is just out from Litmus Press= . She was the runner-up for Ahsahta Press's Sawtooth Prize, selected by Peter Gizzi, with her book, If Not Metamorphic, to be published by Ahsahta. Forthcoming from Fewer & Further Press is the chapbook Rabbit Lesson. She i= s the editor of Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. =20 **Kimberly Lyons Kimberly Lyons is the author of Saline (Instance Press). A chapbook from Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs/Katalanch=E9 Press is forthcoming. =20 **The Poetics Orchestra The Poetics Orchestra plays improvisational music with poetry, conducted by Drew Gardner. =20 **Jill Stengel http://www.durationpress.com/abend/ http://www.dusie.org/late%20may.pdf Poet and publisher Jill Stengel lives in Davis, Calif. with her husband and three young children. Jill=B9s poetry has recently appeared at www.notellmotel.org, www.shampoopoetry.com, and www.texfiles.blogspot.com, as well as Dirt and Superflux, and in her recent chapbook, late may (see link above). She has two new chapbooks due out later this year: may/be (dusie) and wreath (Texfiles). Boog Literature published her chapbook Ladie= s with Babies in 2003. She=B9s the editor of a+bend press, former prolific publisher of chapbooks in conjunction with a reading series in San Francisco. a+bend is now publishing mem, a journal of writing by poets who are currently mothering young children, and page mothers. **Gary Sullivan http://www.garysullivan.blogspot.com Gary Sullivan is the author of How to Proceed in the Arts (Faux Press) and, with Nada Gordon, Swoon (Granary Books). He has published three issues of his comic book series Elsewhere and lives in Brooklyn with Nada and their two cats, Dante and Nemo. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://www.welcometoboogcity.com T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:53:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <20070730162412.215261489D@ws5-9.us4.outblaze.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit yes Tarkovsky--I even tried to write a poem abt his films. I remember the night I saw my first Bergman films still. Add Bunuel. On 7/30/07 12:24 PM, "Christophe Casamassima" wrote: > you forgot Tarkovsky... No one made films like he did. It was like holding > your breath. > > But Bergman, what an utter loss. > > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Aryanil Mukherjee" >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:52:06 -0400 >> >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard >> remains. >> >> aryanil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> Hal >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >> but a hammer with which to shape it." >> --Bertolt Brecht >> >> Halvard Johnson >> ================ >> halvard@earthlink.net >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > >> > > > = > Codi Laptop and Notebook Cases > Free Ground Shipping on Cases & 30% - 40% Off Security & Accessories. > http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=0642c5de842d86ab985762d813 > d314c0 > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:06:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Ciccariello Subject: little serif dancing darkness MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline little serif dancing darkness -- Peter Ciccariello Image - http://invisiblenotes.blogspot.com/ Word - http://poemsfromprovidence.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:19:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CA Conrad Subject: a conversation with DODIE BELLAMY on Kathy Acker and writing through the object, the body, and more MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline This e-mail conversation with Dodie Bellamy, CAConrad, Christina Strong, and Erica Kaufman took place in June, 2007 Go to the PhillySound: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com/2007_07_01_archive.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:30:28 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabrielle Welford Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070730172140.064ce180@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT and fellini for la strada. g No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.412 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/705 - Release Date: 2/27/2007 On Mon, 30 Jul 2007, Mark Weiss wrote: > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if > limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir > generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest > in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > Mark > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: > >Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. And > >Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > > > > > > > From: Anny Ballardini > > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > > > > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son > > > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > > > > > > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > > >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > > >> remains. > > >> > > >> aryanil > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > >> > > >> Hal > > >> > > >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > > >> but a hammer with which to shape it." > > >> --Bertolt Brecht > > >> > > >> Halvard Johnson > > >> ================ > > >> halvard@earthlink.net > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > >> > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:40:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20070730172140.064ce180@earthlink.net> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit But wouldn't Luis Bunuel make it necessary to have a group of 6? gb On Jul 30, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if limited > to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir generations) I'd > add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest in Bergman, tho his > later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > Mark > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. >> And >> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >> >> >> > From: Anny Ballardini >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> > >> > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun >> son >> > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >> > >> > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >> cinema. >> >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >> Godard >> >> remains. >> >> >> >> aryanil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >> >> but a hammer with which to shape it." >> >> --Bertolt Brecht >> >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> >> ================ >> >> halvard@earthlink.net >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> > > Mr. G. Bowering Okanagan born. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:06:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Redell Olsen poems at The Argotist Online Comments: To: british-poets@jiscmail.ac.uk, wryting-l@listserv.wvu.edu http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Olsen%20poems.htm ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:48:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: on our earth, the killdeer & the glowworms & the vanishing bees MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is odd, but this posting made me think yet again of something troubling. I knew about the bees dying off in such numbers...last I checked there were several theories, none of them proven...(anyone know if that's been convincingly explained yet? did i miss sequelae?) and have empirically witnessed this scarcity...but I've been spooked because we've had no lightning bugs all summer...I am East Coast....Pennsylvania...they're usually lighting the neighborhood up every two seconds...anybody hear anything about this? I'm near a river and a stadium (a few miles upriver) and I know they spray the river area for mosquitos and such, but in past years no lightning bug (or glowworms as some call 'em) effect was seen...maybe it's just in this area...are your lawns lighting up? ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:00:48 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline yeap, agreed. On 7/31/07, George Bowering wrote: > > But wouldn't Luis Bunuel make it necessary to have a group of 6? > > gb > > > On Jul 30, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > > > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if limited > > to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir generations) I'd > > add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest in Bergman, tho his > > later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > > > Mark > > > > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: > >> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. > >> And > >> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > >> > >> > >> > From: Anny Ballardini > >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > >> > To: > >> > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >> > > >> > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun > >> son > >> > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > >> > > >> > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of > >> cinema. > >> >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only > >> Godard > >> >> remains. > >> >> > >> >> aryanil > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > >> >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >> >> > >> >> Hal > >> >> > >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > >> >> but a hammer with which to shape it." > >> >> --Bertolt Brecht > >> >> > >> >> Halvard Johnson > >> >> ================ > >> >> halvard@earthlink.net > >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > >> >> > > > > > Mr. G. Bowering > Okanagan born. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:12:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: A<4b65c2d70707300915g7510bc76kb598fd721570e9b7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Diane Di Prima voted for Pasolini too. Pasolini could indeed displace anyone from the list, perhaps Godard. He was a good poet too which leaves me a soft spot. Same stands true for Tarkovsky. In fact, Bergman at some point in his career expressed deep admiration for him, saying something like cinema didn't exist without Tarkovsky. Kurosawa said the same about Ray. One could profess to include Antonioni too. There are other greats who had a much shortlived career. The body of work, its richness, topical range, the power to create brilliant human documents, the courage to experiment with the apparatus and the craft, the condition in which they made films - all these factors counted for my Magic 5. It requires a lot of guts to discount someone like Ray. If you've seen "The Chess Players" (Shatranj ki Khilari) or "The Lonely Wife" (Charulata) or "The Hero" (Nayak) you'd know. What makes him even greater is the aspect ratio (defined as the ratio of the final footage to the initial amount shot) of his films. He maintained an aspect ratio of 8 over his entire film career. This means for every 8 feet of film he shot, 1 foot made it into the final cut. That's the lowest aspect ratio one could think of when it comes to the acclaimed. Kurosawa had a ratio of 400, Hitchcock 265, let's not even try to think of Spielberg. Even the Nouvelle Vague directors who stood for cheap film-making couldn't even dream of making such small budget films. Ray was a gifted commercial artist and used that skill to prepare detailed drawings of every single frame, every single movement within the frame. He was a perfectionist who would sometimes rehearse his artists for about 20-25 times because they couldn't get some Bengali or English accent correct. He was an exceedingly talented musician and composed his own music. In many of his films he wrote the story, the screenplays, dialogs, did the casting himself, wrote and composed the music, designed sets/garments and finally directed the film. I don't know of any other film director who managed so much himself. Truffaut, back in 1956 at the Cannes film festival made a statement which he might have felt really sorry about for the rest of his life. He tried his very best to swallow his once spoken words. He left the theatre in the middle of the screening of Ray's "Song of the Little Road" saying, " I have no interest in the life of an Indian farmer". As for Fellini, I would emphatically argue if Satryicon was his best film. How could we forget La Dolce Vita, 8-and-a-half, La Strada, Ginger and Fred! I thought very few handled the modern classic narrative like him. Very few wrote a human document like Fellini or Ray or Kurosawa. We all have our own favorites but all of my magic 5 are "high", really "high". They can be displaced but not discounted. Anyway, here we are to remember Ingmar Bergman, an equally stunning artist. Aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Anny Ballardini Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:16 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > remains. > > aryanil > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > Hal > > "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > but a hammer with which to shape it." > --Bertolt Brecht > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:19:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aryanil Mukherjee Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit sure. maybe we could do a POETICS TOP-12 or TOP-15 when all the raised hands have been counted. no has said - Truffaut by far! Or Eisenstein (maybe not Kalatozov for his low low turn over). and as poets, how could we forget Jean Cocteau ? Or Alain Resnais. aryanil -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of George Bowering Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 2:40 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) But wouldn't Luis Bunuel make it necessary to have a group of 6? gb On Jul 30, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if limited > to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir generations) I'd > add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest in Bergman, tho his > later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > Mark > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. >> And >> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >> >> >> > From: Anny Ballardini >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> > >> > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun >> son >> > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >> > >> > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >> cinema. >> >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >> Godard >> >> remains. >> >> >> >> aryanil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >> >> but a hammer with which to shape it." >> >> --Bertolt Brecht >> >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> >> ================ >> >> halvard@earthlink.net >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> > > Mr. G. Bowering Okanagan born. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:09:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Add Herzog. Add Kubrick. Add Wertmuller. Hal Sal si puedes. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html On Jul 30, 2007, at 11:53 PM, Ruth Lepson wrote: > yes Tarkovsky--I even tried to write a poem abt his films. > I remember the night I saw my first Bergman films still. > Add Bunuel. > > > On 7/30/07 12:24 PM, "Christophe Casamassima" > wrote: > >> you forgot Tarkovsky... No one made films like he did. It was like >> holding >> your breath. >> >> But Bergman, what an utter loss. >> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Aryanil Mukherjee" >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:52:06 -0400 >>> >>> >>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >>> cinema. >>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >>> Godard >>> remains. >>> >>> aryanil >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >>> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>> >>> Hal >>> >>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>> --Bertolt Brecht >>> >>> Halvard Johnson >>> ================ >>> halvard@earthlink.net >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >>> >> >> >> = >> Codi Laptop and Notebook Cases >> Free Ground Shipping on Cases & 30% - 40% Off Security & Accessories. >> http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick? >> redirectid=0642c5de842d86ab985762d813 >> d314c0 >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:43:37 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 The thing with Fellini is this: my parents know shit about art, but whe it = comes to Fellini, they equate his films with their daily lives (they're for= eigners). It's the only thing they can relate to with me. I think Fellini t= ook the absurd, the extravagent, and made it my parents'. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Bowering" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:40:21 -0700 >=20 >=20 > But wouldn't Luis Bunuel make it necessary to have a group of 6? >=20 > gb >=20 >=20 > On Jul 30, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: >=20 > > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't=20 > > need to make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens.=20 > > And if limited to five (assuming we're talking about the=20 > > post-Renoir generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had=20 > > much interest in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier=20 > > ones for me. > > > > Mark > > > > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: > >> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. A= nd > >> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > >> > >> > >> > From: Anny Ballardini > >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > >> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > >> > To: > >> > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >> > > >> > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son > >> > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > >> > > >> > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cine= ma. > >> >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Goda= rd > >> >> remains. > >> >> > >> >> aryanil > >> >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 > >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > >> >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > >> >> > >> >> Hal > >> >> > >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > >> >> but a hammer with which to shape it." > >> >> --Bertolt Brecht > >> >> > >> >> Halvard Johnson > >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> >> halvard@earthlink.net > >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > >> >> > > > > > Mr. G. Bowering > Okanagan born. > =3D Roomba Half Price Blowout Sale Save Over 50% on Roomba Scheduler, & all Roomba and Scooba Models. http://a8-asy.a8ww.net/a8-ads/adftrclick?redirectid=3D39f41f7aab4117c87ea4b= 395c03817b6 --=20 Powered By Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:11:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Roberto Harrison Subject: Enemy Rumor announcement (w. bios) - 911 W. National Ave., Milwaukee, WI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline All welcome!... Enemy Rumor presents a poetry reading by Joel Felix & Paul Martinez Pompa Paul Martinez Pompa received his BA from the University of Chicago and his MFA from Indiana University, where he served as a poetry editor for *Indiana Review*. His chapbook, *Pepper Spray*, was published by Momotombo Press in 2006. His writing has appeared in the journals *After Hours*, *Borderlands,* *Rhino, and **Barrow Street**, *and some of his poems were anthologized in *The Wind Shifts: New Latino Poetry* and *Telli**ng** To**ng**ues*. He currently teaches composition and creative writing at Triton College in River Grove, Illinois. Joel Felix lives in Chicago where he edits the journal LVNG with Peter and Michael O'Leary. He is the author of the several chapbooks including "Catch and Release," published by the Chicago Poetry Project, "Monaural," published by Answer Tag Home Press, and "Regional Noir" published by Bronze Skull Press. His work can also be found in the anthology *City** Visible: ** Chicago** Poetry for the New Century*. Joel works as an adult learning curriculum developer and is a part-time faculty member of the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. 7:00 PM, Saturday, August 4 @ Walker's Point Center for the Arts 911 W. National Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53204 414.672.2787 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:35:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: on our earth, the killdeer & the glowworms & the vanishing bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I'm from Kingston (Wilkes-Barre area) and we've noticed the same thing on and off - but then they return. In our area the rabbits, skunks, and possums have disappeared; herons have increased, as have certain kinds of spiders. I think at least to some extent this might have to do with global warming, but I'm not certain. - Alan On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, W.B. Keckler wrote: > This is odd, but this posting made me think yet again of something > troubling. I knew about the bees dying off in such numbers...last I checked there were > several theories, none of them proven...(anyone know if that's been > convincingly explained yet? did i miss sequelae?) and have empirically witnessed > this scarcity...but I've been spooked because we've had no lightning bugs all > summer...I am East Coast....Pennsylvania...they're usually lighting the > neighborhood up every two seconds...anybody hear anything about this? I'm near a > river and a stadium (a few miles upriver) and I know they spray the river area > for mosquitos and such, but in past years no lightning bug (or glowworms as > some call 'em) effect was seen...maybe it's just in this area...are your lawns > lighting up? > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:44:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tom W. Lewis" Subject: Re: RIP Michaelangelo Antonioni (1912-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable you guys forgot Antonioni, and now he's dead...=20 died on the same day as Bergman -- so why did the news media hold off reporting it? NYT * July 31, 2007 Michelangelo Antonioni, 94, Italian Director, Dies By RICK LYMAN Michelangelo Antonioni, the Italian director whose chilly canticles of alienation were cornerstones of international filmmaking in the 1960s, inspiring intense measures of admiration, denunciation and confusion, died on Monday at his home in Rome, Italian news media reported today. He was 94. He died on the same day as Ingmar Bergman, the Swedish filmmaker who died at his home in Sweden earlier Monday. "With Antonioni, not only has one of the greatest living directors been lost, but also a master of the modern screen," said the mayor of Rome, Walter Veltroni. His office said it was making plans for Mr. Antonioni's body to lie in state on Wednesday, Reuters reported. Tall, cerebral and resolutely serious, Mr. Antonioni harkens back to a time in the middle of the last century when cinema-going was an intellectual pursuit, when purposely opaque passages in famously difficult films spurred long nights of smoky argument at sidewalk cafes, and when fashionable directors like Mr. Antonioni, Alain Resnais and Jean-Luc Godard were chased down the Cannes waterfront by camera-wielding cineastes demanding to know what on earth they meant by their latest outrage. Mr. Antonioni is probably best known for "Blow-Up," a 1966 drama set in Swinging London about a fashion photographer who comes to believe that a photograph he took of two lovers in a public park also shows, hidden in the background, evidence of a murder. But his true, lasting contribution to cinema resides in an earlier trilogy - "L'Avventura" in 1959, "La Notte" in 1960 and "L'Eclisse" in 1962 - which explores the filmmaker's tormented central vision that people had become emotionally unglued from one another. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/movies/31cnd-antonio.html?_r=3D1&hp=3D&= ore f=3Dslogin&pagewanted=3Dprint -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of George Bowering Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 1:40 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) But wouldn't Luis Bunuel make it necessary to have a group of 6? gb On Jul 30, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to=20 > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if limited > to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir generations) I'd > add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest in Bergman, tho his > later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > Mark > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about.=20 >> And >> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >> >> >> > From: Anny Ballardini >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> > >> > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun=20 >> son >> > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >> > >> > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of=20 >> cinema. >> >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only=20 >> Godard >> >> remains. >> >> >> >> aryanil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group=20 >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >> >> but a hammer with which to shape it." >> >> --Bertolt Brecht >> >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> halvard@earthlink.net >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> > > Mr. G. Bowering Okanagan born. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:58:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Surgeon General has declared smoking books could be dangerous to your health Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed http://www.tankmagazine.com/tankbooks/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:02:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: RIP Michelangelo Antonioni (1912-2007) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Today's Special G(e)nome http://www.xpressed.org/fall03/genome.pdf Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:07:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Why are we playing a numbers game instead of discussing Bergman? For the record (?), any list of great filmmakers without Renoir and Carne is woefully incomplete. Anyway, of the postwar generation, a new death has to be recorded today. Michelangelo Antonioni died early today or yesterday. The last film I saw of his, called Passenger or The Passenger, was wonderful. Regards, Tom Savage George Bowering wrote: But wouldn't Luis Bunuel make it necessary to have a group of 6? gb On Jul 30, 2007, at 2:25 PM, Mark Weiss wrote: > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if limited > to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir generations) I'd > add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest in Bergman, tho his > later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > Mark > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought about. >> And >> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >> >> >> > From: Anny Ballardini >> > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> > >> > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun >> son >> > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >> > >> > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >> >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >> cinema. >> >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >> Godard >> >> remains. >> >> >> >> aryanil >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >> >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >> >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >> >> >> >> Hal >> >> >> >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >> >> but a hammer with which to shape it." >> >> --Bertolt Brecht >> >> >> >> Halvard Johnson >> >> ================ >> >> halvard@earthlink.net >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >> >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >> >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >> >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >> >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >> >> > > Mr. G. Bowering Okanagan born. --------------------------------- Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:36:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "steve d. dalachinsky" Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard etc all masters and so many more why do this silly top ten billy wilder fritz lang On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss writes: > Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to > > make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if > limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir > generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest > > in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. > > Mark > > > At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: > >Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought > about. And > >Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. > > > > > > > From: Anny Ballardini > > > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > > > > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 > > > To: > > > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > > > > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a > chacun son > > > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > > > > > > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > >> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of > cinema. > > >> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only > Godard > > >> remains. > > >> > > >> aryanil > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > > >> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > >> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > > >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > >> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > >> > > >> Hal > > >> > > >> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > > >> but a hammer with which to shape it." > > >> --Bertolt Brecht > > >> > > >> Halvard Johnson > > >> ================ > > >> halvard@earthlink.net > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > >> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > >> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > >> http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > >> > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:55:39 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: question Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT my friend Jennifer Mulligan will be in New York from the evening of August 17th to the afternoon of August 19th; are there any lit events she should consider going to? i'll probably send her with some above/ground press publications for handout & maybe some Chaudiere Books catalogues too.... rob -- poet/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...13th poetry coll'n - The Ottawa City Project .... c/o 858 Somerset St W, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:56:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Michelangelo Antonioni, 94, Italian Director, Dies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: davidbchirot@hotmail.comTo: davidbchirot@hotmail.comSubject: NYTimes.= com: Michelangelo Antonioni, 94, Italian Director, DiesDate: Tue, 31 Jul 20= 07 09:52:28 -0700 =09 This page was sent to you by:=20 davidbchirot@hotmail.com MOVIES=20 =20 | July 31, 2007 Michelangelo Antonioni, 94, Italian Director, Dies By RICK LYMAN The director=92s chilly canticles of alienation were cornerstones of intern= ational filmmaking in the 1960s. =20 =09 =09 =09 =09 1. Who=92s Minding the Mind?=20 2. Findings: The Whys of Mating: 237 Reasons and Counting=20 3. Op-Ed Contributor: A War We Just Might Win=20 4. Every Penny Counts=20 5. Advances Cited in Research on Multiple Sclerosis=20 =BB =20 Go to Complete List =09 Advertisement=20 SUNSHINE From Danny Boyle The director of Trainspotting and 28 Days LaterIn Select T= heatres July 20 Click here to watch trailer Copyright 2007 The New York Times Company | Privacy Policy =20 =09 =09 _________________________________________________________________ PC Magazine=92s 2007 editors=92 choice for best web mail=97award-winning Wi= ndows Live Hotmail. http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=3Den-us&ocid=3DTXT_TAGHM_mig= ration_HMWL_mini_pcmag_0707= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:30:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "W.B. Keckler" Subject: Re: Surgeon General has declared smoking books could be dangerous to your health In-Reply-To: <076A8D81-5C85-4FBC-9507-3906C0C4F232@mwt.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" LOL...those are great! Reminds me of the uproar the candy cigarettes caused in years past. At first, I thought it was going to be some bad taste?thing where they only released books by authors who died of lung disease or something...like we'd see ray carver, thomas bernhard, etc....although maybe it's a marlboro "manly man thing" since i see ernest hemingway, joseph conrad...but i think their mommas had em both in dresses when they wuz little, no? -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:58 am Subject: Surgeon General has declared smoking books could be dangerous to your health http://www.tankmagazine.com/tankbooks/? ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:29:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ann Bogle Subject: Re: a conversation with DODIE BELLAMY on Kathy Acker and writing through the ... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 7/31/2007 6:37:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, caconrad13@GMAIL.COM writes: This e-mail conversation with Dodie Bellamy, CAConrad, Christina Strong, and Erica Kaufman took place in June, 2007 Go to the PhillySound: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com/2007_07_01_archive.html This is a totally invigorating piece of thought writing -- about today, lives, women writers, women & aging -- I read it straight through, without pause & bookmarked links for further reading & fwd'd it to my writer friends, who are (deep-down old, patient, tired) just waiting to read something like this! Heart. An amazing discussion, honest, & optimistic -- all. AMB ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:13:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Suzanne Burns Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 7/31/07, Ruth Lepson wrote: > > yes Tarkovsky--I even tried to write a poem abt his films. > I remember the night I saw my first Bergman films still. > Add Bunuel. Anything by Tarkovsky recharges my poetry batteries. :-) Bergman, Dreyer, Godard... God yes. Suzanne ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:18:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <20070731.124155.504.17.skyplums@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' On 7/31/07 12:36 PM, "steve d. dalachinsky" wrote: > this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard etc all > masters and so many more why do this silly top ten > > billy wilder fritz lang > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss > writes: >> Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to >> >> make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if >> limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir >> generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest >> >> in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. >> >> Mark >> >> >> At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought >> about. And >>> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >>> >>> >>>> From: Anny Ballardini >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> >>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >>>> To: >>>> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>> >>>> don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a >> chacun son >>>> gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >>>> >>>> On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >> cinema. >>>>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >> Godard >>>>> remains. >>>>> >>>>> aryanil >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>>>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>>>> --Bertolt Brecht >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> halvard@earthlink.net >>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>>> >> >> ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:17:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: RIP Michelangelo Antonioni (1912-2007) In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit your synaesthesia is wonderful, convincing On 7/31/07 11:02 AM, "Halvard Johnson" wrote: > Today's Special > > G(e)nome > http://www.xpressed.org/fall03/genome.pdf > > Halvard Johnson > ================ > halvard@earthlink.net > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:19:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eric Dickey Subject: Re: on our earth, the killdeer & the glowworms & the vanishing bees In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I was just in Alabama and saw enough lightning bugs to warm my heart and cause my four year old son's eyes to widen as we captured a few of them in jars. As for killdeer, I know nothing other than one made an appearance in a recent poem of mine. As for the bee death, CCD, colony collapse disease, is a new phenom. We have only recently begun commercial beekeeping at such a rate. So, we don't really have enough data to know one way or the other. I have several friends who study bees; they are not alarmed. We have exchanged some e-mails about it. Here are some highlights of recent news stories. rest assured: http://www.thedalleschronicle.com/news/2007/05/news05-01-07-01.shtml Bee deaths: big buzz over small concern contributing to bee deaths: http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/225743/ Bees dying of mysterious infection probably due to genetically modified crops http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2867049 and http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/NEWS/706190314/-1/rss01 A 13-year-old's award-winning essay suggests the die-off comes from feeding them too much corn syrup and trucking them long distances to pollinate crops http://www.oregonlive.com/metro/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/117505052781130.xml&coll=7 Researchers puzzled at the sudden drop of honeybees But with the discovery of a 100-million year old bee, I seriously doubt that humans could have a lasting impact on the bee: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209083342.htm However, if it meant giving up cell phones, which would go first, the phone or the bee? http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20070315215055data_trunc_sys.shtml Cell Phones To Blame For Deserted Bee Colonies? re: climate change, be concerned: http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=4086 Honey Bees, Satellites and Climate Change nectar and pollen availability has shifted one month Of more concern, I read that global warming will bring a decline in human males. A good place to end this message. Have a nice day! Eric Alan Sondheim wrote: I'm from Kingston (Wilkes-Barre area) and we've noticed the same thing on and off - but then they return. In our area the rabbits, skunks, and possums have disappeared; herons have increased, as have certain kinds of spiders. I think at least to some extent this might have to do with global warming, but I'm not certain. - Alan On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, W.B. Keckler wrote: > This is odd, but this posting made me think yet again of something > troubling. I knew about the bees dying off in such numbers...last I checked there were > several theories, none of them proven...(anyone know if that's been > convincingly explained yet? did i miss sequelae?) and have empirically witnessed > this scarcity...but I've been spooked because we've had no lightning bugs all > summer...I am East Coast....Pennsylvania...they're usually lighting the > neighborhood up every two seconds...anybody hear anything about this? I'm near a > river and a stadium (a few miles upriver) and I know they spray the river area > for mosquitos and such, but in past years no lightning bug (or glowworms as > some call 'em) effect was seen...maybe it's just in this area...are your lawns > lighting up? > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > ======================================================================= Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, dvds, etc. ============================================================= --------------------------------- Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:28:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <20070731.124155.504.17.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yeah. Add Budd Boettticher. gb On Jul 31, 2007, at 9:36 AM, steve d. dalachinsky wrote: > this argument is rediculous fellini bergman pasolini godddard etc > all > masters and so many more why do this silly top ten > > billy wilder fritz lang > > On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:25:41 -0400 Mark Weiss > writes: >> Myself, I'd keep Fellini for 8 1/2 and Satyricon, if I didn't need to >> >> make room for Visconti. Godard and Kurosawa are givens. And if >> limited to five (assuming we're talking about the post-Renoir >> generations) I'd add Almodovar and Wenders. Never had much interest >> >> in Bergman, tho his later films redeem the earlier ones for me. >> >> Mark >> >> >> At 04:15 PM 7/30/2007, you wrote: >>> Yes, on reading the list of "five" Pasolini was who I thought >> about. And >>> Fellini was who I questioned. . . in the long haul. >>> >>> >>>> From: Anny Ballardini >>>> Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >> >>>> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:15:50 +0200 >>>> To: >>>> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>> >>>> don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a >> chacun son >>>> gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ >>>> >>>> On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: >>>>> thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of >> cinema. >>>>> Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only >> Godard >>>>> remains. >>>>> >>>>> aryanil >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: UB Poetics discussion group >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >>>>> Behalf Of Halvard Johnson >>>>> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM >>>>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>>>> Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) >>>>> >>>>> Hal >>>>> >>>>> "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, >>>>> but a hammer with which to shape it." >>>>> --Bertolt Brecht >>>>> >>>>> Halvard Johnson >>>>> ================ >>>>> halvard@earthlink.net >>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html >>>>> http://entropyandme.blogspot.com >>>>> http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com >>>>> http://www.hamiltonstone.org >>>>> http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html >>>>> >> >> > > George H. Bowering, OUH Born without a religion. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:33:59 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <00b501c7d36c$1fad2c80$ea2c7a92@net.plm.eds.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I was not clear and I apologize. I put Man Ray into doubt because he is an artist par excellence for me, and that could go even beyond cinematography. Why not Pasolini as well? Because for me his cinema is better than his writings and his paintings. On 7/31/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > Diane Di Prima voted for Pasolini too. > > Pasolini could indeed displace anyone from the list, perhaps > Godard. > He was a good poet too which leaves me a soft spot. Same stands true for > Tarkovsky. In fact, Bergman at some point in his career expressed deep > admiration for him, saying something like cinema didn't exist without > Tarkovsky. Kurosawa said the same about Ray. One could profess to include > Antonioni too. There are other greats who had a much shortlived career. > > The body of work, its richness, topical range, the power to create > brilliant > human documents, the courage to experiment with the apparatus and the > craft, > the condition in which they made films - all these factors counted for my > Magic 5. > > It requires a lot of guts to discount someone like Ray. If you've > seen "The Chess Players" (Shatranj ki Khilari) or "The Lonely Wife" > (Charulata) or "The Hero" (Nayak) you'd know. What makes him even greater > is > the aspect ratio (defined as the ratio of the final footage to the initial > amount shot) of his films. He maintained an aspect ratio of 8 over his > entire film career. This means for every 8 feet of film he shot, 1 foot > made > it into the final cut. That's the lowest aspect ratio one could think of > when it comes to the acclaimed. Kurosawa had a ratio of 400, Hitchcock > 265, > let's not even try to think of Spielberg. Even the Nouvelle Vague > directors > who stood for cheap film-making couldn't even dream of making such small > budget films. Ray was a gifted commercial artist and used that skill to > prepare detailed drawings of every single frame, every single movement > within the frame. He was a perfectionist who would sometimes rehearse his > artists for about 20-25 times because they couldn't get some Bengali or > English accent correct. He was an exceedingly talented musician and > composed > his own music. In many of his films he wrote the story, the screenplays, > dialogs, did the casting himself, wrote and composed the music, designed > sets/garments and finally directed the film. I don't know of any other > film > director who managed so much himself. > > Truffaut, back in 1956 at the Cannes film festival made a statement > which he might have felt really sorry about for the rest of his life. He > tried his very best to swallow his once spoken words. He left the theatre > in > the middle of the screening of Ray's "Song of the Little Road" saying, " I > have no interest in the life of an Indian farmer". > > As for Fellini, I would emphatically argue if Satryicon was his > best > film. How could we forget La Dolce Vita, 8-and-a-half, La Strada, Ginger > and > Fred! I thought very few handled the modern classic narrative like him. > Very > few wrote a human document like Fellini or Ray or Kurosawa. > > We all have our own favorites but all of my magic 5 are "high", > really "high". They can be displaced but not discounted. > > Anyway, here we are to remember Ingmar Bergman, an equally stunning > artist. > > > Aryanil > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On > Behalf Of Anny Ballardini > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:16 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > > Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > > remains. > > > > aryanil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On > > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > > Hal > > > > "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > > but a hammer with which to shape it." > > --Bertolt Brecht > > > > Halvard Johnson > > ================ > > halvard@earthlink.net > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 21:37:46 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <4b65c2d70707311233k659dd92dj6edcf356309f7c4c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On a second thought I do not like that "beyond." What I might use is "distinct from" cinematography. His versatility tended more towards the arts rather than cinema tout court. This is the way I see Man Ray, probably not as you do. On 7/31/07, Anny Ballardini wrote: > > I was not clear and I apologize. I put Man Ray into doubt because he is an > artist par excellence for me, and that could go even beyond cinematography. > Why not Pasolini as well? Because for me his cinema is better than his > writings and his paintings. > > On 7/31/07, Aryanil Mukherjee wrote: > > > > Diane Di Prima voted for Pasolini too. > > > > Pasolini could indeed displace anyone from the list, perhaps > > Godard. > > He was a good poet too which leaves me a soft spot. Same stands true for > > Tarkovsky. In fact, Bergman at some point in his career expressed deep > > admiration for him, saying something like cinema didn't exist without > > Tarkovsky. Kurosawa said the same about Ray. One could profess to > > include > > Antonioni too. There are other greats who had a much shortlived career. > > > > The body of work, its richness, topical range, the power to create > > brilliant > > human documents, the courage to experiment with the apparatus and the > > craft, > > the condition in which they made films - all these factors counted for > > my > > Magic 5. > > > > It requires a lot of guts to discount someone like Ray. If you've > > > > seen "The Chess Players" (Shatranj ki Khilari) or "The Lonely Wife" > > (Charulata) or "The Hero" (Nayak) you'd know. What makes him even > > greater is > > the aspect ratio (defined as the ratio of the final footage to the > > initial > > amount shot) of his films. He maintained an aspect ratio of 8 over his > > entire film career. This means for every 8 feet of film he shot, 1 foot > > made > > it into the final cut. That's the lowest aspect ratio one could think of > > > > when it comes to the acclaimed. Kurosawa had a ratio of 400, Hitchcock > > 265, > > let's not even try to think of Spielberg. Even the Nouvelle Vague > > directors > > who stood for cheap film-making couldn't even dream of making such small > > > > budget films. Ray was a gifted commercial artist and used that skill to > > prepare detailed drawings of every single frame, every single movement > > within the frame. He was a perfectionist who would sometimes rehearse > > his > > artists for about 20-25 times because they couldn't get some Bengali or > > English accent correct. He was an exceedingly talented musician and > > composed > > his own music. In many of his films he wrote the story, the screenplays, > > > > dialogs, did the casting himself, wrote and composed the music, designed > > sets/garments and finally directed the film. I don't know of any other > > film > > director who managed so much himself. > > > > Truffaut, back in 1956 at the Cannes film festival made a > > statement > > which he might have felt really sorry about for the rest of his life. He > > tried his very best to swallow his once spoken words. He left the > > theatre in > > the middle of the screening of Ray's "Song of the Little Road" saying, " > > I > > have no interest in the life of an Indian farmer". > > > > As for Fellini, I would emphatically argue if Satryicon was his > > best > > film. How could we forget La Dolce Vita, 8-and-a-half, La Strada, Ginger > > and > > Fred! I thought very few handled the modern classic narrative like him. > > Very > > few wrote a human document like Fellini or Ray or Kurosawa. > > > > We all have our own favorites but all of my magic 5 are "high", > > really "high". They can be displaced but not discounted. > > > > Anyway, here we are to remember Ingmar Bergman, an equally > > stunning > > artist. > > > > > > Aryanil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > > On > > Behalf Of Anny Ballardini > > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 12:16 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > > don't really know if fellini was that high (or ray) mais a chacun son > > gout, I'd rather have pasolini there_ > > > > On 7/30/07, Aryanil Mukherjee < aryanil@kaurab.com> wrote: > > > thanks for the information. a stupendous loss for the world of cinema. > > > Of the magic 5 - fellini-ray-godard-kurosawa-bergman, now only Godard > > > remains. > > > > > > aryanil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > > On > > > Behalf Of Halvard Johnson > > > Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 9:09 AM > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > Subject: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) > > > > > > Hal > > > > > > "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, > > > but a hammer with which to shape it." > > > --Bertolt Brecht > > > > > > Halvard Johnson > > > ================ > > > halvard@earthlink.net > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/index.html > > > http://entropyandme.blogspot.com > > > http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com > > > http://www.hamiltonstone.org > > > http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard/vidalocabooks.html > > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:41:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Simon DeDeo Subject: rhubarb is susan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Two new things up on rhubarb is susan -- a response to an essay in the Contemporary Poetry Review, and a short hit on some recent journals. http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/07/from-complaints-department.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/2007/07/things-that-make-you-go-hmm.html http://rhubarbissusan.blogspot.com/ Thanks for tuning in; as always, I encourage publishers with new work out to drop me a line re: review copies for the blog. Yours, Simon ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:33:05 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl-Erik Tallmo Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <407224.42242.qm@web31108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Swedish daily Dagens Nyheter had a special today about Ingmar Bergman, with two of the articles translated into English. One is written by one of Sweden's more prominent theater critics, Leif Zern: Love and Daemons See http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=2712&a=675578 Then there is an article by the Bergman biographer Maaret Koskinen: Death has wrapped its large mantle around Bergman See http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=2712&a=675560 Many have emphasized Bergman's visual genius (achieved in co-operation with Sven Nyqkist) and his great interest in music, and that his greatest love actually was the theater, not film - but I think one aspect that is seldom mentioned is the special rhetoric, the very special verbal flow articulated through his actors, e.g. Erland Josephson and Gunnar Bjornstrand, and of course Max von Sydow. But also the famous "Bergman women" sometimes excel in these almost breathless verbal outbursts. There is a similarity here with another Swedish director, Hasse Ekman, who also had a very special talent for a sort of smooth eloquence, but Bergman's characters (think Erland Josephson in "Scenes From a Marriage") are mostly ironic, sarcastic, bitter or just lost in this world, while Ekman was always elegant and made even misery seem somehow endurable through his mere voice and timbre. I think this use of voices and voice quality together with often very non-oral literary utterances have not attracted as much attention as I think they should. Bergman used his actors as a composer chooses instruments for a piece of music. Somebody wrote the other day that Bergman managed to deal with all these existential topics without being pretentious. I think he was very pretentious - but he got away with it beautifully, partly I believe through this very special use of certain actors and their marvellous, not to say idiosyncratic, diction. See also http://www.ingmarbergman.se/ /Karl-Erik Tallmo -- _________________________________________________________________ KARL-ERIK TALLMO, writer, artist, journalist etc. ARTWORK, WRITINGS etc.: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/ SOUND & MUSIC: http://www.nisus.se/tallmo/sound/ MAGAZINE: http://art-bin.com COPYRIGHT HISTORY: http://www.copyrighthistory.com _________________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:20:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: amy king Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? Anything Krystof Kieslowski. Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? Ruth Lepson wrote: and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' http://www.amyking.org/blog --------------------------------- Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:10:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: on our earth, the killdeer & the glowworms & the vanishing bees In-Reply-To: <761073.24980.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here's my son Zon's photos of a baby killdeer that's living on the roof of our old school. Still doing fine despite hawks & owls everywhere. These were just shot a few weeks ago. http://www.zooomr.com/photos/wakest/2775332/ ~mIEKAL As for bees, here in the organic world, I know of almost no one who has experienced CCD & it's pretty much business as usual. The same is not true for the big commercial growers who truck semi loads of bees across the country... On Jul 31, 2007, at 2:19 PM, Eric Dickey wrote: > I was just in Alabama and saw enough lightning bugs to warm my > heart and cause my four year old son's eyes to widen as we captured > a few of them in jars. > > As for killdeer, I know nothing other than one made an appearance > in a recent poem of mine. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 17:33:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wang Kar-Wei, Abbas Kiostami, Fassbinder, Tarkovsky, Bunuel . . . Murnau, O= zu, Dreyer, Welles, Griffith, Vertov, Catherine Breillat--one cd go for qui= te a few!! Melies, Lumiere, Feuillade--Eisentstein, Mizoguchi, Jean Renoir= , Andrej Wajda, Bertolucci, i blanked out on his name--who made the Dogma f= ilms and Dancer in the Dark, the Kingdom, Dogville, etc--many moreat their= best John Woo and Johnnie To--Oshima--Miyazake--Abel Gance--Agnes Varda--i= shd stop--> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:20:29 -0700> From: amyhappens@yahoo.= com> Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007)> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFF= ALO.EDU> > John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, y= es? > > Anything Krystof Kieslowski. > > Dare I throw Chris Mar= ker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? > > > Ruth Lepson wrote:> and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville'> http://www.= amyking.org/blog> > ---------------------------------> Luggage? GPS?= Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. _________________________________________________________________ See what you=92re getting into=85before you go there. http://newlivehotmail.com= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:57:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wil Hallgren Subject: Re: a lot of filmakers are dead but Rupert Murdock lives and has bought the Wall Street Journal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Rupert Murdock has absorbed The Wall Street Journal into his polymorphic media conglomerate. Let's see ... I can hardly contain my glee -- open the Journal; on page three to my great surprise -- in front of my eyes -- Anna Coulter au naturally! Incidentally, can we stop the filmamker count before we start listing James Whale and Roger Corman (both of whom I admire, ok we can see how this gets silly). Wil ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:07:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tisa Bryant Subject: Re: RIP Ingmar Bergman (1918-2007) In-Reply-To: <230446.71303.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just watched L'ECLISSE for the 5th time (I wrote a piece on it; be =20 out soon), but love the inexplicable actions of THE PASSENGER and =20 L'AVVENTURA. Haven't watched Bergman since last year (AUTUMN SONATA); will return to =20= him, "my first film love". I think PERSONA was the first I saw of his, =20= at the Brattle Theater in Cambridge, MA. My film school. I remember =20= one particular evening, at the end of a failed love affair that hadn't =20= quite ended, I watched three Bergman films (WILD STRAWBERRIES was one) =20= in a row. But sadly, I've always attempted to watch THE SEVENTH SEAL =20= late at night, and I've always fallen asleep. He taught me about =20 light, dark, silence and the layered frame (I think someone said =20 something about his depth of field, or some suchness). Bergman's women...and Woody Allen's, Godard's, Cassavetes', Fellini's, =20= etc...it's more than amazing, what these women have done for film, in =20= film, made visible, palpable...in an expression of the inexpressible =20= (to quote Blonde Redhead, a propos a Vitti), from director to actor. =20= didn't a book on Monica Vitti just come out? I remember reading a =20 review in BookForum, I think. My "Indelible Imagemakers" list, in no order, hella long, and really, =20= it could change tomorrow, and well it should; there are at least 20 =20 filmmakers for my every mood. As for the top whatever, and voting, =20 etc? Not interested. I'll leave that to some academy. These folks' =20= works haunt, mark, stay with me, and I keep returning, seeking them out =20= for more: Antonioni Bergman Jean-Pierre Melville Alain Resnais Renoir Fellini Almodovar Kubrick Godard Kurosawa Cassavetes Sembene Ousmane (died last month; was also a novelist) Bela Tarr Coppola Ozu Jacques Rivette Billy Wilder Charles Burnett (and not just for KILLER OF SHEEP) Satyajit Ray Flora Gomes (and all the overlooked "African New Wave" filmmakers of =20 the late 80s -early 90s, along with the "Hong Kong New Wave") Otto Preminger Shohei Imamura Tsai Ming Liang Chris Marker (I dare!) Scorcese Luchino Visconti Stanley Kwan Claire Denis Oscar Micheaux George Cukor Chantal Akerman Nancy Savoca Fassbinder Spike Lee John Sayles Apichatpong Weerasethakul (let's see, 10 years from now, what's up) Tarkovsky Agnes Varda It's all so intertextual! That's what makes the ongoing conversation =20= of cinema so interesting to me. And why the list, really, means =20 nothing. But I couldn't help it! About to watch Pasolini's MAMA ROMA, and Theo Angelopoulos' THE WEEPING =20= MEADOW; some buyer's on point at the Brooklyn Public Library. I also =20= really liked Bertolucci's BEFORE THE REVOLUTION. Peace and light to the spirits of Igmar Bergman and Antonioni as they =20= pass through this world to the next, and much thanks to them for =20 leaving so much of themselves, and their vision, with us. Tisa =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 Prose is like a window; fiction is like a door. But it is not uncommon that he who should come in through the door jumps in through the window. MuXin translated by Toming Jun Liu =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8= =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=20 =A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8=A8 On Jul 31, 2007, at 5:20 PM, amy king wrote: > John Cassavettes, yes! Someone already wrote Akria Kurosawa, yes? > > Anything Krystof Kieslowski. > > Dare I throw Chris Marker into the mix? And Wim Wenders? > > > Ruth Lepson wrote: > and cassavettes & who cd forget 'Nashville' > http://www.amyking.org/blog > > --------------------------------- > Luggage? GPS? Comic books? > Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search. > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:08:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eric unger Subject: Re: on our earth, the killdeer & the glowworms & the vanishing bees In-Reply-To: <761073.24980.qm@web43141.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I've seen a surprising amount of lightning bugs in Chicago this summer. And Chicago has been unaffected by the bee colony collapses which I gather has been a problem in other parts of the country. On 7/31/07, Eric Dickey wrote: > I was just in Alabama and saw enough lightning bugs to warm my heart and cause my four year old son's eyes to widen as we captured a few of them in jars. > > As for killdeer, I know nothing other than one made an appearance in a recent poem of mine. > > As for the bee death, CCD, colony collapse disease, is a new phenom. We have only recently begun commercial beekeeping at such a rate. So, we don't really have enough data to know one way or the other. I have several friends who study bees; they are not alarmed. We have exchanged some e-mails about it. Here are some highlights of recent news stories. > > rest assured: > http://www.thedalleschronicle.com/news/2007/05/news05-01-07-01.shtml > Bee deaths: big buzz over small concern > > contributing to bee deaths: > http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/225743/ > Bees dying of mysterious infection > probably due to genetically modified crops > http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=2867049 > > and > > http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070619/NEWS/706190314/-1/rss01 > A 13-year-old's award-winning essay suggests the die-off comes from feeding them too much corn syrup and trucking them long distances to pollinate crops > > http://www.oregonlive.com/metro/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/117505052781130.xml&coll=7 > Researchers puzzled at the sudden drop of honeybees > > But with the discovery of a 100-million year old bee, I seriously doubt that humans could have a lasting impact on the bee: > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209083342.htm > > However, if it meant giving up cell phones, which would go first, the phone or the bee? > http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20070315215055data_trunc_sys.shtml > Cell Phones To Blame For Deserted Bee Colonies? > > re: climate change, be concerned: > http://www.loc.gov/today/cyberlc/feature_wdesc.php?rec=4086 > Honey Bees, Satellites and Climate Change > nectar and pollen availability has shifted one month > > Of more concern, I read that global warming will bring a decline in human males. > > A good place to end this message. > > Have a nice day! > > Eric > > Alan Sondheim wrote: > I'm from Kingston (Wilkes-Barre area) and we've noticed the same thing on > and off - but then they return. In our area the rabbits, skunks, and > possums have disappeared; herons have increased, as have certain kinds of > spiders. I think at least to some extent this might have to do with global > warming, but I'm not certain. - Alan > > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2007, W.B. Keckler wrote: > > > This is odd, but this posting made me think yet again of something > > troubling. I knew about the bees dying off in such numbers...last I checked there were > > several theories, none of them proven...(anyone know if that's been > > convincingly explained yet? did i miss sequelae?) and have empirically witnessed > > this scarcity...but I've been spooked because we've had no lightning bugs all > > summer...I am East Coast....Pennsylvania...they're usually lighting the > > neighborhood up every two seconds...anybody hear anything about this? I'm near a > > river and a stadium (a few miles upriver) and I know they spray the river area > > for mosquitos and such, but in past years no lightning bug (or glowworms as > > some call 'em) effect was seen...maybe it's just in this area...are your lawns > > lighting up? > > > > > > > > ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at > > http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour > > > > > > > ======================================================================= > Work on YouTube, blog at http://nikuko.blogspot.com . Tel 718-813-3285. > Webpage directory http://www.asondheim.org . Email: sondheim@panix.com. > http://clc.as.wvu.edu:8080/clc/Members/sondheim for theory; also check > WVU Zwiki, Google for recent. Write for info on books, cds, performance, > dvds, etc. ============================================================= > > > > --------------------------------- > Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! >