========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 21:08:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Amanda Earl Subject: Todd Swift on Poetry and Politics: new essay from AngelHousePress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed In his essay, "A Broadcast from Cairo: Poetry, Politics and the Extraordinary Pressure of News" Todd Swift muses on the compatibility of poetry and politics. The essay is particularly timely given the recent oil spill in the Gulf and the ensuing poetic engagement, and also the recent G20 riots in Toronto and the participation of writers as activists and protestors. How does art or how can art respond to war, unrest and disaster or should art respond at all? to read this and other essays, please go to www.angelhousepress.com and click on essays. Amanda Earl AngelHousePress www.angelhousepress.com the angel is in the house ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 12:13:45 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Naomi Buck Palagi Subject: Re: Translators In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Have you considered Ana Osan? --- On Tue, 6/29/10, William Allegrezza wrote: From: William Allegrezza Subject: Translators To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 11:28 AM I'm looking for a few poets who can translate Spanish into English. If you are interested in a new project, just e-mail me for details. Bill Allegrezza wallegrezza@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:02:02 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Playing Ball Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com, elsalites@yahoogroups.com, obodooha@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The =93soccering=94 of sex and the sexualization of soccerare both practices of humour too. ... When one thinks about this interesting coalescence of soccer and sex in and the World Cup taking place in South Africa, one could understand how painfu= l it could be for Slovakia to have succeeded in taking Italy to bed. As the two wrestled in the South African soccer bedroom, perhaps some of us though= t that Slovakia would be on the receiving end. I thought so too, and feared that the =93bashing=94 Slovakia would receive might result in multiple pregnancies!" Read the full text of this article at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/5586754-146/shibboleth_playin= g_ball___.csp --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 13:21:25 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Query: Poetry Benchmarks 1971 In-Reply-To: <50762b62-4998-e727-c272-8b5964304e5f@me.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed I must have mistaken the query. I didn't know it was about =20 autobiography. gb On Jun 29, 2010, at 2:24 AM, David Seaman wrote: > I must be the elder statesman of 1971. At that point I was =20 > interviewing for my next job and Robert Creeley said come to =20 > Buffalo, there is money for your concrete poetry projects. In New =20 > York City=EF=BB=BF, when I got there, Richard Kostelanetz introduced = me to =20 > Fluxus artists (Dick Higgins) and let me know what was going on. > David > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 > > YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: http://www.youtube.com/=20 > watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k > > > > > > On 28 Jun, 2010,at 11:06 PM, Donald Wellman =20 > wrote: > >> In 1971, I left Germany where I was because of Vietnam era =20 >> military service. >> I brought back with me a love for Olson and Zukofsky. I had picked =20= >> up Z. at >> a bookstore in Covent Garden. My special love was Basil Bunting. =20 >> My buddy >> had studied with Kenner in Santa Barbara and could recite "Brigg =20 >> Flats" by >> heart. That wowed me and fit with my Anglo-Saxon Studies agenda. =20 >> It was Old >> English that drew me to Oregon. Contemporary poetry for me began =20 >> there with >> Galway Kinnell and Robert Creeley and necessarily William Stafford =20= >> whose son >> was a classmate. Donald Davey came up and promoted Ed Dorn and =20 >> Thom Gunn. >> Ralph Salisbury was a poet and a friend. Some of you may know the =20 >> inimitable >> Joe Smith whom I later published in O.ARS. I have written a =20 >> history of my >> associations with Charles Olson and people like Harvey Brown which is >> available on the web at >> http://www.cranberryisles.com/photos/olson_tangents.htm. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) =20 >> [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On >> Behalf Of Kevin Killian >> Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 7:18 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: Re: Query: Poetry Benchmarks 1971 >> >> Dear Rachel, >> >> My God, I was 18 then.... >> >> I remember living in New York and the following things happened, =20 >> though >> most of them I didn't find out about till years later! For me =20 >> personally >> the signal arts events of 1971 were seeing Bette Midler at the =20 >> Continental >> Bath House.... and Maria Callas working at Juilliard giving the =20 >> master >> class to voice students, but anybody could get in just about. But in >> poetry, you might say 1971 involved.... >> >> Birth of Tupac Shakur, Kazim Ali, Jeff Clark, Brigid Pegeen Kelly, =20= >> Beth >> Ann Fennelly, Snoop Dogg, Terrance Hayes, Evelyn Lau >> >> Patti Smith performs with Lenny Kaye February 10 at the Poetry =20 >> Project >> (first collaboration) >> >> Ted Berrigan, Train Ride >> >> Jack Spicer, The Red Wheelbarrow >> >> Anne-Marie Albiach, Etat >> >> Sonia Sanchez joins Nation of Islam >> >> Linda Nochlin, "Why have there been no great woman =20 >> artists?" (published) >> >> The Collected Poems of Frank O'Hara, ed. Donald M. Allen >> >> Jose Lezama Lima, Complete Poems (Cuban publication) >> >> Adrienne Rich publishes The Will to Change >> >> Elizabeth Bishop meets Alice Methfessel >> >> Louis Zukofsky, ALL: The Collected Shorter Poems (final version) >> >> High point of Bolinas as American poetry capital >> >> Pablo Neruda receives Nobel Prize >> >> Duncan and Levertov quarrel reaches flash point in Sept-November 1971 >> >> Sun Ra, "The Black Man in the Cosmos" (course at UC Berkeley) >> >> Philip Whalen, Scenes of Life at the Capital >> >> John Lennon releases "Imagine" (autumn) >> >> Andy Warhol designs Sticky Fingers cover for the Stones (spring) >> >> Jackson Mac Low, Stanzas for Iris Lezak >> >> Valerie Eliot publishes Waste Land facsimile from original =20 >> manuscripts >> >> Anne Waldman edits Another World >> Nam June Paik, TV Cello with Charlotte Moorman >> >> Hugh Kenner, The Pound Era >> >> Death of Ogden Nash, Jim Morrison, Paul Blackburn, Stevie Smith, =20 >> Lew Welch >> >> Love ya, Kevin K. >> >> >> > Dear Friends, >> > What would you put on a list of significant poetry moments of 1971? >> > Thank you for your help! >> > Rachel Levitsky >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 >> welcome.html >> > >> > >> > >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 >> welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html George Harry de Bowering Will happily eat an endangered cod. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 14:38:28 -0700 Reply-To: derek beaulieu Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from No press: SENSATIONS OF THE RETINA by Bob Cobbing Comments: To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@invalid.domain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit No press is proud to announce the publication of SENSATIONS OF THE RETINA by Bob Cobbing originally published in 1978 in an editionof 200 copies by bpNichol's grOnk; this edition of SENSATIONS OF THE RETINA is published in a fascimile edition of 40 copies (of which 20 are for sale) $5 each (including shipping) for more information, or to order copies, email derek@housepress.ca derek beaulieu 2 - 733 2nd avenue nw calgary alberta canada T2N 0E4 derek@housepress.ca http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/beaulieu/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 16:25:42 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: A London Story Comments: To: UK POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii London Viz Text - those great signs en route (root?) http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Enjoy Stephen V ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 23:25:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Re: Query: Poetry Benchmarks 1971 In-Reply-To: 65CA4B52-3324-48D5-9310-1ACDEB89ED41@sfu.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Something Else Press (Dick Higgins) published Bern Porter's I'VE LEFT in= 1971. =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =20 From: George Bowering [mailto:bowering@SFU.CA] To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:53:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Query: Poetry Benchmarks 1971 The publication of bpNichol's Monotones. (He published 4 books that year!) =20 =20 On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:52 PM, R Levitsky wrote: =20 > Dear Friends, > What would you put on a list of significant poetry moments of 1971= =3F > Thank you for your help! > Rachel Levitsky > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check =20 > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/=20 > welcome.html > =20 Mr. G.H. Bowering Does not get up immoderately early. =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 00:10:40 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Young Subject: Now out from Otoliths=?windows-1252?Q?=97_Grzegorz_Wr=F3blewski's_?= "A Marzipan Factory" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *A Marzipan Factory* Grzegorz Wr=F3blewski (translated from the Polish by Adam Zdrodowski) 112 pages Otoliths, 2010 ISBN: 978-0-9807651-1-3 $15.95 + p&h URL: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/a-marzipan-factory/11184884 *A Marzipan Factory *is the most original and enticing book of poems I have read in years. It is Kafkaesque and yet tender, cynical and yet warm, elliptical and yet wholly immediate. Grzegorz Wr=F3blewski can take the mos= t ordinary of phenomena and then give them the twist of a knife: to "spare" the life of a living organism=97a "dry" tangerine for instance=97is, from another angle, to forget it. The pleasures and terrors of sex, of age, of the fear of death, of the deceptions of our social life, have rarely been s= o brutally=97yet wittily and charmingly=97documented as they are in these sho= rt, often gnomic poems, surprisingly well rendered in Adam Zdrodowski=92s translation. Grzegorz Wr=F3blewski restores one=92s faith in the power of l= yric poetry to renew itself. =97 Marjorie Perloff Grzegorz Wr=F3blewski's poems are ironic and serious, quick and probing, nailed to place and character but soaring in imagination. If you haven't read his poems, it's not too late to start and this new volume is the perfect place to do that. =97 John Z. Guzlowski *A Marzipan Factory* will also be available through Amazon shortly. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 11:42:00 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Brian Clements Subject: Sentence and Firewheel Announcements In-Reply-To: <817094.66927.qm@web83302.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Firewheel Editions announces the third Sentence Book Award and the fifth Fi= rewheel Chapbook Award.=20 =20 The Firewheel Chapbook Award is given to a collection of no more than 20 ma= nuscript pages in any genre. Preference is for innovative work (liberally i= nterpreted), work that crosses genres, work that combines images and text, = work in formats other than the traditionally bound book, or work that may h= ave difficulty finding publication elsewhere due to the nature, typography,= or format of the work. The recipient of the award will receive 50 copies o= ut of a limited edition. Entry fee: $15 by check to Firewheel Editions or b= y PayPal at http://firewheel-editions.org. Checks and submissions may be ma= iled to Firewheel Chapbook Award, Box 7, WCSU, 181 White St., Danbury, CT 0= 6810. Electronic submissions may be sent to chapbook@firewheel-editions.org= . Postmark/Timestamp Deadline for submissions and fees: November 17, 2010, = 11:59 pm PST.=20 =20 The Sentence Book Award will be given to a book-length manuscript of prose = poems or a book-length manuscript consisting substantially of prose poems (= for example, a book that is half prose poems and half free-verse, or a book= -length sequence that mixes passages of prose poetry with other modes). The= recipient of the award will receive publication in a trade paper edition w= ith a standard royalty contract and 50 copies of the book. All entrants wil= l receive Sentence #8 (entrants who are already subscribers will have their= subscription extended by one issue). Entry fee: $25 by check to Firewheel = Editions or by PayPal at http://firewheel-editions.org. Checks and submissi= ons may be mailed to Sentence Book Award, Box 7, WCSU, 181 White St., Danbu= ry, CT 06810. Electronic submissions may be sent to sentence@firewheel-edit= ions.org. Postmark/Timestamp Deadline for submissions and fees: November 17= , 2010, 11:59 pm PST.=20 =20 Firewheel Editions subscribes to the CLMP Code of Ethics: "CLMP's community= of independent literary publishers believes that ethical contests serve ou= r shared goal: to connect writers and readers by publishing exceptional wri= ting. We believe that intent to act ethically, clarity of guidelines, and t= ransparency of process form the foundation of an ethical contest. To that e= nd, we agree to 1) conduct our contests as ethically as possible and to add= ress any unethical behavior on the part of our readers, judges, or editors;= 2) to provide clear and specific contest guidelines defining conflict of i= nterest for all parties involved; and 3) to make the mechanics of our selec= tion process available to the public. This Code recognizes that different c= ontest models produce different results, but that each model can be run eth= ically. We have adopted this Code to reinforce our integrity and dedication= as a publishing community and to ensure that our contests contribute to a = vibrant literary heritage." =20 =20 The recipient of the Sentence Award will be selected by Brian Clements, Edi= tor of Sentence and Firewheel Editions; the recipient of the Firewheel Chap= book Award will be selected by Brian Clements and Tom Nackid, Design Manage= r for Firewheel Editions. In the event that no recipient is chosen for eith= er award, entry fees will be returned to all of the award's entrants. Autho= rs who have published a chapbook or book with Firewheel Editions, authors w= ho have served on the Board of Contributing Editors of Sentence, graduate o= r undergraduate students and relatives of Brian Clements and Tom Nackid, an= d all past and current staff members of Sentence and Firewheel Editions are= ineligible. All manuscripts will come to the editors anonymously after scr= eening and preparation by Firewheel staff. =20 Submission guidelines: =20 - Chapbook Award entrants must explain any special production requirements = for their projects in the cover letter. - All entrants must provide email address or SASE for Award results.=20 - Unless SASE with sufficient postage for return is included, manuscripts w= ill be recycled. - Multiple submissions are acceptable with an entry fee for each submission= . - Translations are acceptable with proof of permission to publish translati= ons. - Electronic submissions must be sent as a single attachment in .rtf (prefe= rred for text-only submissions), .doc, or .pdf format.=20 - All submitted manuscripts must include a one-page cover with author's nam= e, title, author's email address, and name of Award (Chapbook or Sentence);= also include a second title page with title only. - The author's name should be recognizable nowhere in the manuscript other = than on the cover page. =20 For more information on Sentence and Firewheel Editions, visit http://firew= heel-editions.org or email info@firewheel-editions.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 21:11:16 +0200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Anny Ballardini Subject: Re: SAVE THE GULF-- SAN FRANCISCO-- SHOW YOUR SUPPORT!!--JULY 2 In-Reply-To: <050a01cb16e3$de451e10$6401a8c0@LENOVOB39742E2> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I will always support you. Take it easy Michael. I am flying tomorrow morning to San Miguel De Allende to meet my UNO people= . Take care, Anny On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Michael wrote: > SAN FRANCISCO Save The Gulf Benefit for The Louisiana Bucket Brigade > Rockpile and The Rabbles > with David Meltzer, Michael Rothenberg, Terri Carrion, Clark Coolidge and > Gloria Frym > Friday, July 2, 8pm > The Counterpulse, 1310 Mission at 9th > San Francisco, CA > > SHOW YOUR SUPPORT!! > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Anny Ballardini http://annyballardini.blogspot.com/ http://www.fieralingue.it/modules.php?name=3Dpoetshome http://www.lulu.com/content/5806078 http://www.moriapoetry.com/ebooks.html I Tell You: One must still have chaos in one to give birth to a dancing star! Friedrich Nietzsche =AB Stulta est clementia, cum tot ubique vatibus occurras, periturae parcere chartae =BB Giovenale =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:43:45 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Slaughter Subject: New Mudlark Poster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 88 (2010) Collaborative Poems by James Bertolino & Anita K. Boyle Sugar Zen | Clarified | Saying Hello James Bertolino's poetry has been published internationally, and collected in ten volumes from such publishers as Copper Canyon Press, New Rivers Press, Carnegie Mellon University Press, and the Quarterly Review of Literature Award Series. His most recent volume, Finding Water, Holding Stone, was published in 2009 by Cherry Grove Collections. His fellowship awards and residencies have come from the National Endowment for the Arts, the Book-of-the-Month Club, the Djerassi Foundation and the Espy Foundation. He received his MFA at Cornell University, and has taught creative writing at Cornell, University of Cincinnati, Western Washington University and, for 2005-06, was Writer-in-Residence and Hallie Ford Chair of Creative Writing at Willamette University in Oregon. In 2007 he received the Jeanne Lohmann Poetry Prize for Washington State poets. He lives outside Bellingham, Washington in the shadow of Mt. Baker, where he has retired to full-time writing. Anita K. Boyle's poems have appeared in Indiana Review, StringTown, The Raven Chronicles, Spoon River Poetry Review, Crab Creek Review, Stories With Grace, Margin, and in the anthologies Red Sky Morning and Saints of Hysteria: A Half-Century of Poetry Collaboration in America. She was a winner of Seattle's 2004 Red Sky Poetry Theatre competition and, for the month of October, 2003, had an Espy Foundation writer's residency near the Pacific Ocean in Oysterville, Washington. Her books include Bamboo Equals Loon and, in collaboration with James Bertolino, Bar Exams and Pub Proceedings from Egress Studio Press. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 16:18:03 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Allegrezza Subject: Literary Reading in Chicago: Gizzi, Clifford, and Mukerjee Comments: To: mail@chicagoreader.com Comments: cc: brian@newcity.com, ritaredeye@tribune.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Poetry Reading. Wednesday, July 7 Series A 7-8pm Series A reading series is dedicated to showcasing experimental writing in the US and the Midwest through readings, discussion and performance. Organized by Indiana University Northwest faculty member William Allegrezza, this series brings exciting writers to the Art Center to share their work. On July 7th from 7 to 8pm, writers Peter Gizzi, Pat Clifford, and Aryanil Mukherjee will share their work. This event is free at the Hyde Park Art Center, 5020 S. Cornell Ave., Chicago. For more information call (773) 324-5520 or visit www.hydeparkart.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:43:19 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Closing Eyes Blazing Life" by Sarah Ahmad. Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Closing Eyes Blazing Life" by Sarah Ahmad. Description: Sarah Ahmad's "Closing Eyes Blazing Life" consists of neo-vignettes fabricated from the chaos of absurdity that is the background noise to the human experience, and which encircles us like a demented throng. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/closing-eyes-blazing-life/11599164 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:54:23 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: at Bird & Beckett in San Francisco, CA on Monday, July 5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 =20 Bird & Beckett welcomes poets Nicholas Karavatos & Dee Allen =20 Date: Monday=2C July 5=2C 2010=20 Time: 7:00pm - 9:00pm=20 Location: Bird & Beckett=20 Street: 653 Chenery St.=20 City/Town: San Francisco=2C CA=20 http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=3D139473502735708&ref=3Dnf =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is included in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass* (U= kiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review* (= University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Amendment Nine = published his first book titled *No Asylum* (Arcata=2C 2009). http://www.am= azon.com/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp =20 David Meltzer wrote on the back cover: =93Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of g= reat range and clarity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp = political poetry in tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it vo= iced with an impressive singularity.=94 =20 Nicholas Karavatos lives near Dubai=2C teaching at the American University = of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. Previously he taught in Muscat=2C S= ultanate of Oman. He is a graduate of New College of California and Humbold= t State University. =20 http://www.birdbeckett.com/=20 =20 Nicholas Karavatos' next poetry reading/book-signing is sponsored by the Or= egon Literary Review and will be in Portland=2C OR on Wednesday=2C July 7 a= t Blackbird Wine Shop. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Nicholas Karavatos Dept of Language & Literature American University of Sharjah PO Box 26666 Sharjah United Arab Emirates =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your = inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:27:24 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: twshaner@COMCAST.NET Subject: Wig 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Our second issue of Wig is finally out! Please see below if you're interest= ed in ordering a copy.=20 WIG 2=20 edited by Kristen Gallagher and Tim Shaner=20 Contributors: Steve Benson, Laynie Browne, Del Ray Cross, Thom Donovan, Pat= rick Durgin, William Fuller, Kristen Gallagher, Judith Goldman, Brandon Hol= mquest, Rodney Koeneke, Richard Kostelanetz, Bill Marsh, Tim Shaner, Sigmun= d Shen, and Carol Szymanski.=20 Wig is a low-budget magazine devoted to poetry and art that appropriates th= e job for its own artistic purposes. Not always =E2=80=9Cabout=E2=80=9D wor= k, the wig-artist may employ his or her labor for poetic or artistic ends t= hat implicitly critique the virtue of productivity through the act of poach= ing company time and/or materials. The wig-artist often =E2=80=9Cwrites wor= k=E2=80=9D (Spahr) in relation to a =E2=80=9Claboring society=E2=80=9D (Are= ndt) that has little or no appreciation for the work of making art. The for= m of the work will often reflect compromised time and/or attention. The tit= le of the magazine alludes to Michel de Certeau=E2=80=99s discussion of la = perruque: =E2=80=9Cthe worker=E2=80=99s own work disguised as work for his = employers.=E2=80=9D=20 =E2=80=9CIt was a typical entry level job. I tried during my job to do my o= ther work, that without an economy, only to realize there was little hope. = This was my attempt to get around the problem and write work. [...] I colle= cted notes from my boss=E2=80=99s memos, things I had seen [or] over-heard.= I collected them into one long stream of day/text and barely edited them.= =E2=80=9D=20 =E2=80=93Juliana Spahr, Live=20 =E2=80=9CThe limits imposed by work represent not simply an obstacle but an= opportunity for writing=E2=80=94not least because the workplace is the sit= e of common activity and therefore enables us to bear witness to our common= experience.=E2=80=9D=20 =E2=80=93Kit Robinson, =E2=80=9CTime and Materials=E2=80=9D=20 =E2=80=9CThere is no use being alive if one must work. The event from which= each of us is entitled to expect the revelation of his own life=E2=80=99s = meaning=E2=80=94that event which I may not have found, but on whose path I = seek myself=E2=80=94is not earned by work.=E2=80=9D=20 =E2=80=93Andr=C3=A9 Breton, Nadja=20 To order a copy contact Tim Shaner @ twshaner [at] comcast [dot] net OR sen= d a check for $10 made out to Tim Shaner to Tim Shaner, 130 E. 49th Ave, Eu= gene, OR 97405=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:42:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Tom=E1s_=D3_C=E1rthaigh?= Subject: Translators In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Im looking for anyone who wants to translate my poetry into whatever langua= ge you speak... email me with same!!!! =A0 Tom=E1s "a person with a good book is never alone... a writer until they've written= one is never at peace"=20 - www.writingsinrhyme.com=A0=A0::: Add me on Facebook ::: My YouTube Videos =A0 =A0 --- On Tue, 29/6/10, William Allegrezza wrote: From: William Allegrezza Subject: Translators To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, 29 June, 2010, 17:28 I'm looking for a few poets who can translate Spanish into English. If you are interested in a new project, just e-mail me for details. Bill Allegrezza wallegrezza@gmail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 23:11:36 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Carol Seferi Subject: Catherine Woodard-- Request for e-mail address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Does anyone have Catherine Woodard's contact information? Thank you in advance. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:28:20 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Playz" by Alan Sondheim Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "Playz" by Alan Sondheim. Description: In "Playz" by Alan Sondheim, extreme base desires take over base desires, control becomes politics becomes control, and zaniness is exposed as violence, sex, arousal and betrayal. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/playz/11601170 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:29:54 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: F-E-R-M-E-N-T-A-T-I-O-N Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com, Theory and Writing , webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 F-E-R-M-E-N-T-A-T-I-O-N Juice begins the journey to wine as all the world clanks & squeaks to the changes. http://vimeo.com/12903161 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:57:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Query: Poetry Benchmarks 1971 In-Reply-To: <20100630032555.0eb46503@mail.fps.k12.me.us> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Ginserg's Fall of America and kerouc's posthumous Scattered Poems came out (i think also Poems all Sizes might have been in 1971) I remember quite vividly reading both of those that summer--(Scattered Poems & Fall of America)-- Ted Berrigan published in 1971 A Train Ride and Memorial Day (with Anne Waldman)--i read those in '71 as a friend in NYC who worked in a bookstore gave them to me as "part of my new york experience" i also read Frank O'Hara for the first time--Lunch Poems and Meditations in an Emergency--i had found both at a yard sale-- other poets i remember reading that year though the spefic works not published in 1971 (in a way a book when one reads it is "new, of that year" when one first reads it--) Blaise Cendrars poetry books (in French) Picasso--Hunk of Skin (city lights) Spanish Poems of Protest--Kennth Rexroth editor the 1855 Edition of Leaves of Grass with famous Malcolm Cowley intro- Capitale de la Douleur--Paul Eluard Mayakovsky's poems then out in English- Russian Futurism--history/with tons of poems) by V Markov Poetry & Plays by Lorca--esp Poet in New York- Dada Painters & Poets--ed by Robert Motherwell reread complete Baudelaire & Rimbaud in French reread Aurelia by Gerard de nerval (prose poem/autobiographical accounts of his madness--) i french) Nerval poetry in French--Les Chimeres--incredible book! Henri Michaux--Miserable Miracle Novalis--poetry prose works in english Emily Dickinson--poetry & letters (reread) Apollinaire--Calligrammes, Alcools (reread) Sappho (reread) (i usually reread my favorite poets over again every two or every one year--) that's all i can recall off top of my head-- along with poetry in various journals pub in nyc my friend turned me on to-- new directions grove and city lights i wd always look for to see what foreign poetry they might have-- the nyc writers i found in journals were the ones one would expect to find that time period-- also Ezra Pound though can't recall which particular ones--my gfather was a Poundian so he had a huge Pound collection-- Gertrude Stein--whatever i cd find)-- Nicanor Parra--Antipoems Vicente huidobro--selected poems-- Bert Brecht--poems Pasternak--poetry & memoirs- American Indian poetry--various collections-- Clark Coolidge--Space (as i recall) it was a very vivid year so recal those books pretty vividly-- for the heck of it i looked up on line to see what may have happened in poetry world that year for example: (just a couple ones picked at random--) John Berryman died, as did Stevie Smith; Pablo Neruda won the Nobel Prize Jom Morrison, poet of the Lizard King--died Ted Berrigan published A Train Ride and memorial Day (with Anne Waldman) Patti Smith gave her first reading accompanied by guitar (Lenny Kaye)--2 years later her group was founded and first LP followed-- On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Mark Melnicove wrote: > Something Else Press (Dick Higgins) published Bern Porter's I'VE LEFT in > 1971. > _____ > > From: George Bowering [mailto:bowering@SFU.CA] > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 16:53:32 -0400 > Subject: Re: Query: Poetry Benchmarks 1971 > > The publication of bpNichol's Monotones. > (He published 4 books that year!) > > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 12:52 PM, R Levitsky wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > What would you put on a list of significant poetry moments of 1971? > > Thank you for your help! > > Rachel Levitsky > > > > > > > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/ > > welcome.html > > > > Mr. G.H. Bowering > Does not get up immoderately early. > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:30:46 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: poems by dalachinsky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2 of my poems and a collage are up at http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/129009/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:04:51 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Fwd: ACLU: Who knows what books you buy? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [image: Because Freedom Can't Protect Itself] Dear ACLU Supporter, The books, music and movies you browse or buy online can reveal private and profoundly intimate information about your life. It's time to upgrade the Electronic Communications Privacy Act to keep our personal information safe= . Can government agencies conduct sweeping collections of your most persona= l and private information, including the books you buy online? That fundamental question is at stake in an ACLU lawsuit we just filed. The ACLU intervened in an existing Amazon.com lawsuit to resist the North Carolina Department of Revenue's demand that Amazon turn over thousands of customers' records. The laws governing electronic privacy haven't been updated since 1986=97bef= ore the Internet as we know it even existed. The books, music and movies you browse or buy online can reveal private and profoundly intimate information about your life. It's time to upgrade the Electronic Communications Privacy Act (ECPA) to keep our personal information safe. *Tell Congress to update our privacy laws and keep your information personal, private and protected.* Our anonymous clients in the Amazon.com lawsuit include: - Jane Doe 1, who purchased books on self-help and how to get a divorce and a restraining order after her former spouse threatened to kill her. - Jane Doe 2, the general counsel of a global corporation, who purchased books and movies with overt political leanings as well as books that may reveal her religious beliefs. - Jane Doe 3, who purchased books on mental health in order to better understand the conditions afflicting her former spouse, including "Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About = Has Borderline Personality Disorder." If the North Carolina government gets its way, this information=97and the personal records of thousands of others=97will be in government hands. We'v= e gone to court to stop this massive invasion of privacy and free speech rights. But we must stop it from happening in the future. *Tell Congress to strengthen personal privacy laws to prevent unreasonable government demands for our most personal electronic information.* Amazon has refused to yield to the unreasonable demands for detailed information about what specific individuals are buying online. As part of a tax audit, it has already handed over lists of the exact items purchased an= d their cost. But North Carolina has refused to relent in its belief that it is also entitled to know the identities of purchasers. It shouldn't take either Amazon standing tall or the ACLU intervening to prevent this kind of abuse. We should have clear laws that safeguard our private records, especially when they involve expressive materials like books. *Tell your members of Congress it's time to update and strengthen privacy laws.* Thank you for taking action on this vitally important effort to defend personal privacy. Sincerely, [image: Anthony D. Romero] [image: Anthony D. Romero] Anthony D. Romero Executive Director ACLU [image: Donate Today] [image: Tell a Friend] =A9 ACLU, 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor, New York, NY 10004 Unsubscribe from receiving email, or change your email preferences. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:23:15 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: [puritanmagazine@gmail.com: Puritan X] Friends, The Puritan is back with a brand-spanking new tenth issue! It's jam-packed with eye-popping poetry and spine-tingling fiction that is guaranteed to please. We realize that this is a bit of a belated announcement as the issue has been online for a while now. Thank you for your patience as we ironed out the wrinkles. This tenth issue marks a bit of a milestone for our humble publication and we would not have been able to do it without your support. Enjoy. Love always, Spencer, Andrew, and Tyler -- The Puritan: Frontiers of New English Toronto, Ontario, Canada www.puritan-magazine.com puritanmagazine@gmail.com -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:05:47 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aldonlnielsen Subject: Re: new U.S. laureate In-Reply-To: <11887284.946991277987300967.JavaMail.www@wwinf3706> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 7B367) W.S. Merwin is the new Poet Laureate. Aldon Lynn Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English 117 Burrowes Building The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-6200 I never wanted to be the man who broke your heart -- Only wanted to be the man who wrote the song -- That broke your heart > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:19:51 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Evermore OIL, evermore POEMS Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Evermore OIL flows, evermore POEMS appear -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** Juice - + http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ travis-nichols/the-poetry- feminaissance_b_607561.html + http://www.pw.org/content/ poets_take_action_in_wake_of_ gulf_coast_disaster + http://poetry.about.com/b/ 2010/06/16/poems-for-the-gulf- of-mexico.htm + http://amyking.org ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 11:18:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: News Release: Third Thursday Poetry Night, July 15 - Jason Crane Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 The Poetry Motel Foundation =20 c/o Dan Wilcox 280 South Main Ave. Albany, NY 12208 (518) 482-0262 =20 =20 > Press Release -- for immediate release < =20 Poet Jason Crane to read at the Social Justice Center Thursday, July 15, 7:30PM =20 Local poet Jason Crane will read from his work at the Social Justice = Center, 33 Central Ave., Albany on Thursday, July 15, 2010 at 7:30PM. = Jason Crane hosts the online jazz interview show The Jazz Session = (http://thejazzsession.com), featuring in-depth interviews with jazz = musicians from around the world. His first collection of poems, = =93Unexpected Sunlight,=94 was published earlier this year by FootHills = Publishing, and he is the Executive Director of the New York Bicycling = Coalition. A reading by a local or regional poet is held each Third Thursday at the = Social Justice Center. The event includes an open mic for audience = members to read. Sign-up starts at 7:00PM, with the reading beginning = at 7:30. The host of the readings is Albany poet and photographer Dan = Wilcox. The suggested donation is $3.00, which helps support this and = other poetry programs of the Poetry Motel Foundation, and the work of = the Social Justice Center. For more information about this event = contact Dan Wilcox, 518-482-0262; e-mail: dwlcx@earthlink.net. The Social Justice Center, founded in 1981, is a non-profit organization = working for progressive social change through education, community = building and collective action. The center advances the struggles = against racism and for peace and justice. For further information about = the SJC call 518-434-4037. =20 # =20= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 14:42:10 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: books and cds you buy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit books and cds immediately available cds: cd with matthew shipp - $15 phenomena of interference insomnia poems bbc broadcast -$10 various live bootlegs -$10 books: the final nite: poems for charles gayle $15 logos and language w/ matthew shipp - $20 reaching into the unknown w/ photographer jacques bisceglia 450pages of photos and poems - $50 the mantis: poems for cecil taylor $10 animal people: $6 insomnia poems: $6 christ amongst the fishes: a book of collage $10 shipping cost separate but reasonable ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 14:45:26 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: BP is burning endangered sea turtles alive (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="0-424324221-1278009926=:28119" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --0-424324221-1278009926=:28119 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 11:50:08 From: "Steven Biel, MoveOn.org Political Action" To: Alan Sondheim Subject: BP is burning endangered sea turtles alive Click here to sign the petition: "BP: Stop blocking the rescue of endangered sea turtles before you burn them alive in your 'controlled burns.'" [button_red_signpetition.gif] Sign the petition Dear MoveOn member, News recently emerged from the Gulf Coast that BP is burning endangered sea turtles alive.1 That's right. BP is using "controlled burns" to contain the oil spill, and any turtles that are not removed from the area before the fire is lit are literally burned alive. A boat captain who has been leading efforts to rescue the endangered turtles says BP has blocked his crews from entering the areas where the animals are trapped, effectively shutting down the rescue operation. With BP already facing so much public outrage, we can stop this. Our friends at Credo Mobile launched a petition demanding that BP stop burning turtles alive, and you can add your name by clicking the link below: http://pol.moveon.org/seaturtles/?id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx&t=5 The petition says: "BP: Stop blocking the rescue of endangered sea turtles before you burn them alive in your 'controlled burns.'" Then, after you've signed, be sure to share it with your friends on Facebook, Twitter, or by forwarding this email. The way controlled burns work is that shrimp boats create a corral of oil by dragging together fire-resistant booms and then lighting the enclosed "burn box" on fire. Any animals not removed from the burn area are trapped. The sea turtle most affected by the Gulf of Mexico oil spill is the Kemp's Ridley, which is listed as endangered under the Endangered Species Act.2 "They ran us out of there and then they shut us down. They would not let us get back in there," said turtle rescuer Mike Ellis in an interview with conservation biologist Catherine Craig that was posted on YouTube.3 Environmental groups including the Center for Biological Diversity and Turtle Island Restoration Network have called on BP to end the practice, but BP has refused, denying that there's really any problem. Yesterday, these groups filed a lawsuit demanding that BP take action to protect the endangered turtles.4 But the legal system can work very slowly, and the turtles need help now. Tell BP to allow the rescue boats back in and stop burning endangered sea turtles alive. Click the link below to sign the petition: http://pol.moveon.org/seaturtles/?id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx&t=6 Thanks for all you do. ?Steven, Jeff, Duncan, Amy, and the rest of the team 1. "BP 'burning sea turtles alive,'" The Raw Story, June 20, 2010 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89247&id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx&t=7 2. "Sea Turtles Among Oil Spill Victims," NPR, June 10, 2010 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89248&id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx&t=8 3. "Venice, Louisiana, Boat Captain, by Catherine Craig," YouTube, June 13, 2010 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89249&id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx&t=9 4. "Gulf of Mexico sea turtles may be burning with oil, groups plan to sue BP," Miami Herald, June 30, 2010 http://www.moveon.org/r?r=89252&id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx&t=10 Want to support our work? We're entirely funded by our 5 million members?no corporate contributions, no big checks from CEOs. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. Chip in here. ____________________________________________________________________________ PAID FOR BY MOVEON.ORG POLITICAL ACTION, http://pol.moveon.org/. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. This email was sent to Alan Sondheim on July 1, 2010. To change your email address or update your contact info, click here. To remove yourself from this list, click here. [o.gif?id=21503-1083850-pJvqBmx] ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html --0-424324221-1278009926=:28119-- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 18:43:32 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Requited - issue #3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable REQUITED http://www.requitedjournal.com Issue #3 now online! FICTION=20 Lydia Ship=20 James Tadd Adcox=20 Cami Park=20 Patrick Crerand=20 A D Jameson Neil=20 De La Flor=20 POETRY=20 Arlene Ang=20 Clint Campbell=20 Nicholas Destino=20 Daniel Godston=20 Jennifer Karmin=20 P. A. Levy=20 Stefania Irene Marthakis=20 Kristen Orser=20 Lana Rakhman=20 Susan Slaviero=20 ESSAY=20 Laura Krughoff=20 Ish Klein=20 Carmen Gim=E9nez Smith=20 Tyler Flynn Dorholt=20 DRAMA=20 Nathan Child and Andrew K. Peterson VISUAL / VIDEO=20 Eula Biss and John Bresland=20 Suzon Fuks=20 Fereshteh Toosi=20 Eric Fleischauer=20 Todd Mattei=20 Lindsay Page =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 09:26:59 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicky Melville Subject: selections and dissections MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hey=2C=20 =20 just wanted to post up a couple of reviews of my book=2C selections and dis= sections=2C=20 with thanks to reviewers Adam Piette and Stephen Nelson. =20 blackbox manifold: http://www.manifold.group.shef.ac.uk/issue4/AdamPiette.h= tml =20 tarpaulin sky: http://tsky-reviews.blogspot.com/2010/04/nick-e-melvilles-se= lections-and.html =20 the book's available through me=2C just backchannel=3B (or many shops in Edinburgh)=3B or from Lulu: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/selections-and-dissecti= ons/11269870 =20 aw th best=2C=20 nick-e melville Get a new e-mail account with Hotmail - Free. Sign-up now. =20 _________________________________________________________________ http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/195013117/direct/01/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 12:50:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Mysterious Attribution MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill Knott, in his comment on Sharon Messmer's poem, PIMP MY TOP KILL LIVE FEED MOTHERSHIP at POETS FOR LIVING WATERS, writes the following: Karl Marx said to Heinrich Heine: =93Give up these everlasting complaints about love; show these poets how to use a whip.=94 What makes the Mesmer poem stand out from the others here is the whip of it. Apparently, the poet John Logan also used it in his opening to A CENTURY PIECE FOR POOR HEINE. Does anyone know if Marx actually wrote this to Heinrich Heine? Mary Jo Malo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 20:09:59 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: at Blackbird Wine Shop - Oregon Literary Review - in Portland on Wednesday, July 7, 2010 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 =20 The Oregon Literary Review welcomes poets Nicholas Karavatos=2C Pat Cason= =2C Jan Priddy=2C and Susan DeFreitas to the Blackbird Wine Shop in Portlan= d=2C OR on Wednesday=2C July 7=2C 2010 at 7:00pm. =20 Date: Wednesday=2C July 7=2C 2010=20 Time: 7:00pm - 9:00pm=20 Location: Blackbird Wine Shop=20 Street: 3519 NE 44th=20 City/Town: Portland=2C OR=20 http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=3D140061199343797 =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is included in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass* (U= kiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review* (= University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Amendment Nine = published his first book titled *No Asylum* (Arcata=2C 2009). http://www.am= azon.com/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp=20 =20 David Meltzer wrote on the back cover: =93Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of g= reat range and clarity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp = political poetry in tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it vo= iced with an impressive singularity.=94 =20 Nicholas Karavatos lives near Dubai=2C teaching at the American University = of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. Previously he taught in Muscat=2C S= ultanate of Oman. He is a graduate of New College of California and Humbold= t State University.=20 =20 http://blackbirdwine.com/ http://orelitrev.startlogic.com/digital/FirstWed.htm=20 http://orelitrev.startlogic.com/digital/indexnew.htm=20 =20 Nicholas Karavatos=92 next poetry reading / book-signing is sponsored by Th= ird Thursday Poets at the Tea Party Bookshop (oh=2C currently unfortunate n= ame! =85perhaps redeemed by its address? =85"420 Ferry Street") in Salem=2C= Oregon on Thursday=2C July 17=2C 2010. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Nicholas Karavatos Dept of Language & Literature American University of Sharjah PO Box 26666 Sharjah United Arab Emirates =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your = inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 09:27:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Krystal Languell Subject: Bone Bouquet Issue 2 Published Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Bone Bouquet: An Online Journal of Women's Poetry is proud to announce: The second issue of Bone Bouquet is now posted! =20 http://bonebouquet.org/issue-2/ =20 Poetry from Sandra Doller, Kate Schapira, Kristy Bowen and ten more female poets! Reading period to re-open in August. Best wishes, Krystal Languell Editor in Chief | Bone Bouquet | www.bonebouquet.org Senior Editor | Puerto del Sol | www.puertodelsol.org Senior Editor | Noemi Press | www.noemipress.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 16:57:20 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CSharks_of_Mary_Shelley=E2=80=9D_?= by Jeff Harrison Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CSharks of Mary Shelley=E2=80= =9D by Jeff Harrison Description: Jeff Harrison's =E2=80=9CSharks of Mary Shelley=E2=80=9D explores the subte= rfuges and circumscriptions of the authorial persona before a backdrop of c= annibalised historical identities filtered through the ventriloquism of poe= tic utterances. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/sharks-of-mary-shelley/11608088 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 05:05:38 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Netartery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://netartery.vispo.com is a blog by a group of writers whose individual practices have gone significantly wrong. Recent posts include: * Nawlz.com, a computer graphic novel -- Jim Andrews * The Marconi factory beams out one final SOS -- Gregory Whitehead * Up for the challenge -- Christine Wilks * On fluid poetry -- Eugenio Tisselli * Online Russian mag of sound poetry & audio art -- Jim Andrews * On Pulsate by Andre Michelle -- Jim Andrews * On using tools made by comrades -- Chris Funkhouser * 2 short films from ELO Archive & Innovate -- David Jhave Johnston * The Playground -- Andy Campbell * Digital Fiction on the iPhone via Flash export? -- Andy Campbell * The gusher provides the ink -- Gregory Whitehead * BP Horizon oil spill volume -- Jim Andrews ja! ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 23:40:05 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Young Subject: Now out from Otoliths=?windows-1252?Q?=97=22modulations=22_by_M=E1rton_Kopp=E1ny?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *modulations* M=E1rton Kopp=E1ny 52 pages, full color Page size 7=BD" x 7=BD" Otoliths, 2010 ISBN: 978-0-9807651-2-0 $19.99 (currently with free postage in the U.S.A.) URL: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/modulations/11269905 Nearly sixty years ago, Charles Olson warned, =93The poet cannot afford to traffick in any other sign than his =91one=92,=94 preparing the way whether= he knew it or not for M=E1rton Kopp=E1ny to take leave of his native Hungarian= and to move into English, where for more than two decades he has been creating traffic signs with the gleeful abandon of a deranged city planner with an advanced degree in Dada. Or maybe not so deranged. I read the poems in * modulations* as perfectly sensible, whether fish are emitting thought bubbles in the sky, or a table=92s legs are deconstructed to show their essentially asemic nature. Language is our great connecting principle and Kopp=E1ny=92s language artfully breaks, reduces, and repairs poetry with a metaphysician=92s discomfort matched with a physician=92s healing touch. = =97*Peter O'Leary* There was a time when *pictures* and *writing* were not as separate as they are today, a time when *the picture* was given not just *to show* but *to tell;* a sort of =93picture-writing.=94 And each =93pictograph=94 was as a= n aper=E7u, at once an insight into and a brief digest of the thought to be communicated. The poet M=E1rton Kopp=E1ny has found for himself a form mos= t becoming of his intuition; each panel here is an aper=E7u into that space where *picture* and *writing* are one, *that space where the mind knows the word in the figure of its substance,* that space that is *language-in-eidos= . * And so I see Kopp=E1ny=92s panels as =93eidographs,=94 as urtexts of =93= eidetic poetry.=94 =97*Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, author of The Logoclasody Manifesto * What can you say about . . . except that . . . with clouds just where they . . . which is, to say, in short, a master of the . . ., as well as . . . the. For instance, the refle . . . one poem of the invis. . . stillness ( ), not to exclude ( In fullest slowest color. =97*Bob Gru . . . n* * * The minimalist visual poetry of M=E1rton Kopp=E1ny has many qualities lifti= ng it high and above most visual poetry composed over the last 100 years in any language. We are fortunate he has chosen to compose in his second language, American English, wedded to discipline. His manifestations always lean forward into the new, not a mere recycling of the old and worn out. It brings smiles, smirks and the belly laugh. It is consistently permeated wit= h the rare characteristic of awe so many others lack and never reach for. And= , for me, on too many occasions, his visions give me a jealous wish that it had come my way rather than his. =97*Karl Kempton* =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 02:58:21 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CStories_Short_and_Strange=E2=80=9D_?= by Bill Drennan. Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CStories Short and Strange=E2= =80=9D by Bill Drennan. =20 Description:=20 =20 =E2=80=9CStories Short and Strange=E2=80=9D is the first volume of a unique= collection by Bill Drennan. These tales are typically laced with blends of= absurdist science fiction, satire, childish cartoonism and black space hum= our. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/stories-short-and-strange/11612442 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:54:52 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William Slaughter Subject: New Mudlark Issue (Chapbook) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed New and On View: Mudlark No. 39 (2010) 3,068,518 An Electronic Chapbook Poems by Drew Dillhunt Drew Dillhunt lives in the Beacon Hill neighborhood of Seattle and is co-author, with his father, CX, of the chapbook Double Six (Endeavor, 1994). His writing has appeared in Eclectica, Pitkin Review, Hummingbird: Magazine of the Short Poem, Tarpaulin Sky, and Jacket. He's the author of the poetry manuscript Materials Science, which was selected as a finalist for the National Poetry Series 2009 Open Competition. He has released two albums of his songs, including one with the band Fighting Shy. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 10:04:50 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: New @ Rogue Embryo: My Leslie + Gene-Pixel Hybridity Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 New @ Rogue Embryo * Remembering remembering Leslie Scalapino * Gene-Pixel Hybridity: David Dowker=92s Machine Language http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com Cheers! Camille Martin Sonnets: http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2010/martin.html Codes of Public Sleep : http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781897388112/codes-of-public-sleep.aspx =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:22:14 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: my first one man show and.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit please check out my first one man show of assemblage abnd collage in lower gallery at fusion arts gallery 57 stanton street manhattan also i will be reading at the stone with pianist matthew shipp on august 18th at 10pm preceeded by stephanie stone with yuko otomo and eve packer and The 1st Annual Albert Ayler Festival Record Fair & Musical Celebration steve dalachinsky will read a poem and mc this event Saturday July 10th, 2010 Highly influential jazz label teams up with leading experimental curators to honor Albert Ayler on the anniversary of his 74th birthday with a free outdoor day-long tribute concert on Roosevelt Island. "Music Is the Healing Force of the Universe" In celebration of the life and music of legendary free-jazz tenor-saxophonist Albert Ayler, ESP-Disk’ and Issue Project Room, in conjunction with Roosevelt L!ve have curated a day-long free concert, Saturday July 10th from 2-10pm, in honor of the groundbreaking musician’s 74th birthday. With performances by some of the most prolific artists dedicated to pushing the boundaries in the avant-jazz world the same way Ayler did over 40 years ago, this festival will feature sets from The New Atlantis Sextet with Marshall Allen, William Hooker, Charles Gayle, Gunter Hampel, Giuseppi Logan, and more all taking place at RiverWalk Commons on picturesque Roosevelt Island: NYC's Best Kept Secret. The outdoor festival will also feature a record fair with a variety of new and used vinyl vendors hosted by ESP-Disk's own in-house retail operation, ESP Records. Great live music, a great selection of vinyl & CDs, great food from the local Roosevelt Island restaurants and a view of Manhattan that can't be beat. What more could a music lover want on a summer day? Location & Directions: Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New York, F Train to Roosevelt Island Map www.albertaylerfestival.com www.esprecodstore.com Performance Schedule: 2pm Giuseppi Logan Quartet Matt Lavelle: trumpet, bass clarinet Francois Grillot: bass Dave Miller: drums Giuseppi Logan: alto sax, bass clarinet (ESP 1007, 1013, 1055) 3pm Charles Gayle Trio Michael Wimberly: drums TBA: bass Charles Gayle: tenor sax 4pm Gunter Hampel Trio Gunter Hampel: vibraphones, bass clarinet (ESP 1042) 5pm Flow Trio Louie Belogenis: tenor sax (ESP 4052) Charles Downs: drums (ESP 4052) Joe Morris: bass (ESP 4052, 4056) 6pm William Hooker Trio featuring Sabir Mateen David Soldier: mandolin, banjo, violin Sabir Mateen: saxophone, flute, clarinet William Hooker: drums, spoken word 7pm New Atlantis Sextet featuring Marshall Allen Ed Ricart: guitar Sam Lohman: tba Andrew Barker: drums Danny Ray Thompson: flute Marshall Allen: alto saxophone (ESP 1008, 1014, 1017, 1045, 3033, 4002, 4054, 4060) 8pm DJ Spun (Rong/DFA) Saturday July 10, 2010 from 2pm-10pm $ FREE $ ESP LIVE and Issue Project Room Presents in conjunction with Roosevelt L!ve: The 1st Annual Albert Ayler Festival 'Record Fair & Musical Celebration' Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New York About Albert Ayler (July 13, 1936 – November 25, 1970) "Music is the Healing Force of the Universe," the title of prolific free-jazz musician Ayler's fierce work for the Verve label in 1969, sums up his musical vision and prowess behind the tenor-saxophone. Born July 13th, 1936, Ayler didn’t make his mark playing his way up the ranks in be-bop bands, yet he was exposed to the world of Little Walter inspired R&B and the gritty sounds of the New Orleans tradition. Ayler began making sparse, free arrangements of marching band tunes, brass band explorations, and alto-experimentation that led him to be a driving factor in the careers of everyone from ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:21:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Poetry comics original art MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm selling original art I've done for the "New Life" series of poetry comi= cs=2C which have appeared in Rain Taxi from 1997-present. Comics versions of poetry by K. Silem Mohammad=2C Rod Smith=2C Katie Degent= esh=2C Tao Lin=2C Flarf=2C Basquiat/Kevin Young=2C and more to come. See: http://newlifecomic.blogspot.com Thanks! Gary =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 00:30:26 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Asian Cha Subject: CALL FOR SUBMISSIONS -- "THE CHINA ISSUE" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain Cha: An Asian Literary Journal (http://asiancha.com/) is now accepting=20= submissions for "The China Issue", an edition of the journal devoted=20 exclusively to work from and about contemporary China. The issue, which w= ill=20 be published in June 2011, will feature poetry, fiction, creative non-fic= tion,=20 scholarly works and visual art exploring the modern Middle Kingdom. We ar= e=20 looking for submissions from a wide range of Chinese and international vo= ices=20 on the social, political and cultural forces which are shaping the countr= y. If you=20 have something interesting, opinionated or fresh to say about China today= , we=20 would like to hear from you. Please note that we can only accept submissi= ons=20 in English.=20 We are pleased to announce that distinguished Chinese scholar and poet Yi= bing=20 Huang will be joining Cha as guest editor for the issue (see his biograph= y=20 below). Huang has graciously agreed to lend us his extensive knowledge of= =20 Chinese literature and keen critical eye to help us select the pieces and= shape=20 the issue.=20 The Reviews section will be devoted exclusively to books related to China= . If=20 you have a recent book that you think would be right for review in "The C= hina=20 Issue", we encourage you to contact our Reviews Editor Eddie Tay at=20 eddie@asiancha.com. Books should be sent to Eddie before the end of March= =20 2011.=20 If you would like to have work considered for "The China Issue", please s= ubmit=20 by email to submissions@asiancha.com by 15th April, 2011. Please include=20= "The China Issue" in the subject line of the email or your work will=20 automatically be considered for one of the regular issues. Submissions to= the=20 issue should conform to our guidelines available at:=20 http://www.asiancha.com/guidelines. Tammy Ho & Jeff Zroback Cha blog version: http://asiancha.blogspot.com/2010/07/call-for-submissions- china-issue.html pdf version: http://asiancha.com/China *** YIBING HUANG was born in Changde, Hunan, China and inherited Tujia ethnic= =20 minority blood from his mother. After receiving his B.A., M.A. and Ph.D. = in=20 Chinese Literature from Beijing University, he moved to the U.S. in 1993.= He=20 holds a second Ph.D. in Comparative Literature from the University of=20 California, Los Angeles. Huang's poetry has been published in China since= the=20 1980s and can be found in many anthologies. As a "blindist," he is the au= thor of=20 two books of poetry: Stone Turtle: Poems 1987-2000 (2005) and Approaching= =20 Blindness (2005). Most recently, he published Contemporary Chinese=20 Literature: From the Cultural Revolution to the Future (Palgrave Macmilla= n,=20 2007), a book that presents case studies of the generation of Chinese wri= ters=20 which spent its formative years during the Cultural Revolution and focuse= s on=20 this generation's identity shift from "orphans of history" to "cultural b= astards."=20 A traveler in the world who has given poetry readings in China and in the= U.S.,=20 Huang is currently an associate professor of Chinese at Connecticut Colle= ge. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 10:32:59 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Elshtain Subject: New Beard of Bees Chapbook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Beard of Bees gives you http://www.beardofbees.com/newman.html to help you become more independent. Eric Elshtain Editor Beard of Bees Press http://www.beardofbees.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 17:58:48 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: New link for Bill Drennan's =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CStories_Short_and_Strange=E2=80=9D?= Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable New link for Bill Drennan's =E2=80=9CStories Short and Strange=E2=80=9D: =20 Description:=20 =20 =E2=80=9CStories Short and Strange=E2=80=9D is the first volume of a unique= collection by Bill Drennan. These tales are typically laced with blends of= absurdist science fiction, satire, childish cartoonism and black space hum= our. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/stories-short-and-strange/11704743 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:32:03 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Allan Revich Subject: Re: my first one man show and.. In-Reply-To: <20100705.182214.2336.5.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Congratulations Steve! I wish I could be there for the show. Allan On 7/5/2010 8:52 AM, steve dalachinsky wrote: > please check out my first > one man show of assemblage abnd collage > in lower gallery at fusion arts gallery > 57 stanton street manhattan > > also i will be reading at the stone with pianist matthew shipp > on august 18th at 10pm preceeded by stephanie stone with yuko otomo and > eve packer > > and > > The 1st Annual > Albert Ayler Festival > Record Fair& Musical Celebration > > > steve dalachinsky will read a poem and mc this event > > Saturday July 10th, 2010 > > > > Highly influential jazz label teams up with leading experimental curators > to honor Albert Ayler on the anniversary of his 74th birthday > with a free outdoor day-long tribute concert on Roosevelt Island. > > > "Music Is the Healing Force of the Universe" > > > In celebration of the life and music of legendary free-jazz > tenor-saxophonist Albert Ayler, ESP-Disk’ and Issue Project Room, in > conjunction with Roosevelt L!ve have curated a day-long free concert, > Saturday July 10th from 2-10pm, in honor of the groundbreaking musician’s > 74th birthday. With performances by some of the most prolific artists > dedicated to pushing the boundaries in the avant-jazz world the same way > Ayler did over 40 years ago, this festival will feature sets from The New > Atlantis Sextet with Marshall Allen, William Hooker, Charles Gayle, > Gunter Hampel, Giuseppi Logan, and more all taking place at RiverWalk > Commons on picturesque Roosevelt Island: NYC's Best Kept Secret. > > The outdoor festival will also feature a record fair with a variety of > new and used vinyl vendors hosted by ESP-Disk's own in-house retail > operation, ESP Records. > > Great live music, a great selection of vinyl& CDs, great food from the > local Roosevelt Island restaurants and a view of Manhattan that can't be > beat. What more could a music lover want on a summer day? > > Location& Directions: > Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New York, F Train to Roosevelt > Island Map > > www.albertaylerfestival.com > www.esprecodstore.com > > > Performance Schedule: > > 2pm > Giuseppi Logan Quartet > Matt Lavelle: trumpet, bass clarinet > Francois Grillot: bass > Dave Miller: drums > Giuseppi Logan: alto sax, bass clarinet (ESP 1007, 1013, 1055) > > > 3pm > Charles Gayle Trio > Michael Wimberly: drums > TBA: bass > Charles Gayle: tenor sax > > 4pm > Gunter Hampel Trio > Gunter Hampel: vibraphones, bass clarinet (ESP 1042) > > 5pm > Flow Trio > > Louie Belogenis: tenor sax (ESP 4052) > > Charles Downs: drums (ESP 4052) > > Joe Morris: bass (ESP 4052, 4056) > > > > 6pm > William Hooker Trio featuring Sabir Mateen > > David Soldier: mandolin, banjo, violin > Sabir Mateen: saxophone, flute, clarinet > William Hooker: drums, spoken word > > > 7pm > New Atlantis Sextet featuring Marshall Allen > Ed Ricart: guitar > Sam Lohman: tba > Andrew Barker: drums > Danny Ray Thompson: flute > Marshall Allen: alto saxophone (ESP 1008, 1014, 1017, 1045, 3033, 4002, > 4054, 4060) > > 8pm > DJ Spun (Rong/DFA) > > > > > > Saturday July 10, 2010 from 2pm-10pm > $ FREE $ > > ESP LIVE and Issue Project Room Presents in conjunction with Roosevelt > L!ve: > The 1st Annual > Albert Ayler Festival > 'Record Fair& Musical Celebration' > Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New York > > > > > About Albert Ayler > (July 13, 1936 – November 25, 1970) > "Music is the Healing Force of the Universe," the title of prolific > free-jazz musician Ayler's fierce work for the Verve label in 1969, sums > up his musical vision and prowess behind the tenor-saxophone. Born July > 13th, 1936, Ayler didn’t make his mark playing his way up the ranks in > be-bop bands, yet he was exposed to the world of Little Walter inspired > R&B and the gritty sounds of the New Orleans tradition. Ayler began > making sparse, free arrangements of marching band tunes, brass band > explorations, and alto-experimentation that led him to be a driving > factor in the careers of everyone from > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:08:17 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: lesbians don't want... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her body. Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting his poet laureate prick inside her! I VOMIT I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me think he needs to read Howe. When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! CAConrad poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:14:02 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Amiri Baraka interview at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Amiri Baraka interview at The Argotist Online: http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Baraka%20interview.htm Excerpt: "The official Ivy League University line is that Europe is the place and th= e culture we Uncle Sam hicks must emulate and imitate. That is why it is st= ill the 'English' department because they are still teaching from the point= of view of The US as an English Colony [...] Today the cultural and arts '= police', i.e. the formalist and academic establishment have tried to cover = most of the art from the turbulent 60=E2=80=99s and 70=E2=80=9Ds and reintr= oduce the passive unmusical self focused academic and formalist models. Mos= t of the poets from the Beat, Black Mountain, San Francisco, New York Movem= ents and Black Arts Movement are rarely published, except occasional menti= ons of Allen Ginsberg or another prize to John Ashbery. Great poets like La= rry Neal or Frank O=E2=80=99Hara are rarely mentioned." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:01:05 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: paolo javier Subject: PRJCTNS Summer Finale, 7/11 @ the BPC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Bowery Poetry Club Hosts Summer Finale of PRJCTNS: A Motion Picture Readin= g Series July 11th at 6PM Featuring Adam Pendleton and Nada Gordon* Bowery Poetry Club is pleased to announce the summer finale of PRJCTNS: A Motion Picture Reading Series (formerly P||R||O||J||E||C||T||I||O||N|| S) the only event showcase in New York City spotlighting practices specifically at the intersection of poetics, performance, and the moving image, PRJCTNS repositions the reading series as multi-genre platform, retracing its lineage to encompass the historical phenomenon of movie-telling as well as broader histories of performative practice. The upcoming summer finale features multimedia artist *Adam Pendleton* and *Nad= a Gordon*. The performances will be followed by a Q&A with the artists. Nodding in part to early 20th-century traditions of live film narration lik= e those of Benshi in Japan and Gavrilov Translation in the USSR - often strategies for the ideological control of cinematic content - PRJCTNS emerges alongside recent nationwide recuperations of related practices in Los Angeles, San Francisco, and beyond. The series expands movie-telling's mechanisms of destabilizing visual meaning in considering game-based genres like cartridge hacking and in-game intervention; post-production video editing tactics such as gag dubbing and re-subtitling; as well as electroni= c techniques of appropriation and misuse including data sculpting, browser poetry, and computational aesthetics. A multidisciplinary ensemble of poets, filmmakers, musicians, performance artists, scholars, critics, and editors will investigate the implementation of these strategies across the wide spectrum of their respective fields. PRJCTNS presents a series of scenarios whose fundamental components are liv= e narrators textually mediating between spectator and screen, marking the virally trending collective urge to intervene in regulated flows of data in media and information systems. PRESENTERS *ADAM PENDLETON* is a New York based artist, working in multiple media, including silkscreen, installation, performance, sculpture, and text, Pendleton=92s conceptual practice probes historical consciousness through a= n investigation of language. Pendleton=92s work has been exhibited nationally and internationally notably at the Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago; the Indianapolis Museum of Contemporary Art, Indiana; the Contemporary Arts Museum, Houston; the Studio Museum, New York; the Whitney Museum of America= n Art, New York; the Stedelijk Museum, Amsterdam; and the Deutsche Guggenheim= , Berlin. Recent biennials and exhibitions include Greater New York, MoMA/PS1= , Long Island City, New York; The Generational: Younger Than Jesus, New Museum, New York; Performa 07, New York; Manifesta 7, Trentino-South Tyrol, Italy; Object, The Undeniable Success of Operations, Stedelijk Museum, Amsterdam; The Future as Disruption, The Kitchen, New York; Sympathy for th= e Devil: Art and Rock n=92 Roll since 1967, Museum of Contemporary Art Chicag= o, Chicago; After 1968: Contemporary Artists and the Civil Rights Legacy, High Museum, Atlanta; Hey Hey Glossolalia, Creative Time, New York; and Manifest= o Marathon at The Serpentine Gallery, London amongst many others. *NADA GORDON* is the author of Folly (Roof) V. Imp. (Faux Press), Are Not Our Lowing Heifers Sleeker Than Night-Swollen Mushrooms? (Spuyten Duyvil), Foriegnn Bodie [stet], (Detour) and (with Gary Sullivan) Swoon (Granary Books), an e-pistolary [stet] non-fiction novel. Scented Rushes is forthcoming from Roof in the fall. Her interests include: biodiversity, enka, alternative pedagogies, home couture, free color samples, canon destruction, movie repurposing, felines, spice, rufflers, peoples of the world, soups and salads, decorative papers, temporary dependent zones, sparrows, and theories. Visit her blog at http://ululate.blogspot.com/. CURATORS *JEREMY JF THOMPSON* is the author of *Autographography*, forthcoming from Cuneiform Press. He received an MFA in Poetics from Mills College in 2006. He is the curator of the Oakland-based series Plastique: A Gallery of Poetics, and more recently Textform, a Center for Book Arts reading series. His practice seeks to investigate the process of collaboration and the notion of a practical avant-garde. He has presented his work at Performance Space 122, Galapagos Art Space, Bowery Poetry Club, the Poetry Project, Poets' Theater, the Supermachine Series, the Front Room Gallery, the University of Miami, and the Kelly Writers House at the University of Pennsylvania. His work has appeared in the Houston Literary Review, Cricket Online Review, EAOGH, and Viz. Inter-Arts: a Trans-Genre Anthology. He most recently contributed to EDIT: Performing Networked Publishing orchestrated in conjunction with the release of Tan Lin=92s Seven Controlled Vocabularie= s. * PAOLO JAVIER* is the newly-appointed Queens Borough Poet Laureate. He is th= e author of two full-length poetry collections and four chapbooks, and runs 2nd Avenue Poetry, a tiny press devoted to innovative language art. For additional information, please contact Paolo Javier and Jeremy JF Thompson at projectionsseries@gmail.com, or visit the PRJCTNS Facebook Group. *PRJCTNS Summer Finale Sunday, July 11th Bowery Poetry Club 6:00PM - 7:30PM $6 At the Door Full Bar Available Bowery Poetry Club is located at: 308 Bowery (Between Houston & Bleecker) New York, NY 10012-2802 (212) 614-0505* --=20 http://blog.myspace.com/paolojavier http://queenspoetlore.tumblr.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:39:39 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hear hear. i heard it too. it was the most simultaneously hubristic and pathetic sex fantasy (and the least turn-on) I've ever heard. eeeeew! CA Conrad wrote: > ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! > > SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! > > A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily > Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing > someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly > cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! > > What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual > preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a > lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS > poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, > and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little > sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her > body. > > Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT > very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting > his poet laureate prick inside her! > > I VOMIT > I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY > > Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes > such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES > AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE > WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! > > Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the > way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me > think he needs to read Howe. > > When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for > every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, > I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! > > May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear > Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how > he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! > > CAConrad > > poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com > > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: > http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > > PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:48:15 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: Fwd: The death of Andrei Voznesensky In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _______________ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/andrei-voznesensky-poet-who-fo= ught-against-artistic-censorship-in-the-soviet-union-2018291.html Regards, S=E9amas Cain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:00:08 -0700 Reply-To: gfrym@earthlink.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Go CA! There's all kinds of new conjectural/fantasy bio material out there, including the bio that posits epilepsy and the wacked novel, The Secret Life of Emily Dickinson, replete with an image of a see-through skirt. None of this has any bearing on the poems. The industry with which these writers produce might be better applied to close reading. Gloria Frym On 7/6/2010 7:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! > > SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! > > A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily > Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing > someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly > cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! > > What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual > preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a > lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS > poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, > and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little > sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her > body. > > Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT > very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting > his poet laureate prick inside her! > > I VOMIT > I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY > > Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes > such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES > AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE > WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! > > Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the > way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me > think he needs to read Howe. > > When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for > every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, > I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! > > May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear > Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how > he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! > > CAConrad > > poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com > > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING& other videos and MP3s: > http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > > PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2986 - Release Date: 07/06/10 11:36:00 > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:08:03 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cleary Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should I care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! > > SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! > > A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily > Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing > someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly > cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! > > What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual > preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a > lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS > poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, > and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little > sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her > body. > > Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT > very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting > his poet laureate prick inside her! > > I VOMIT > I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY > > Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes > such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES > AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE > WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! > > Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the > way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me > think he needs to read Howe. > > When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for > every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, > I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! > > May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear > Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how > he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! > > CAConrad > > poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com > > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: > http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > > PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:24:19 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: my first one man show and.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit thanks On Tue, 6 Jul 2010 13:32:03 -0400 Allan Revich writes: > Congratulations Steve! > > I wish I could be there for the show. > > Allan > > On 7/5/2010 8:52 AM, steve dalachinsky wrote: > > please check out my first > > one man show of assemblage abnd collage > > in lower gallery at fusion arts gallery > > 57 stanton street manhattan > > > > also i will be reading at the stone with pianist matthew shipp > > on august 18th at 10pm preceeded by stephanie stone with yuko > otomo and > > eve packer > > > > and > > > > The 1st Annual > > Albert Ayler Festival > > Record Fair& Musical Celebration > > > > > > steve dalachinsky will read a poem and mc this event > > > > Saturday July 10th, 2010 > > > > > > > > Highly influential jazz label teams up with leading experimental > curators > > to honor Albert Ayler on the anniversary of his 74th birthday > > with a free outdoor day-long tribute concert on Roosevelt Island. > > > > > > "Music Is the Healing Force of the Universe" > > > > > > In celebration of the life and music of legendary free-jazz > > tenor-saxophonist Albert Ayler, ESP-Disk’ and Issue Project Room, > in > > conjunction with Roosevelt L!ve have curated a day-long free > concert, > > Saturday July 10th from 2-10pm, in honor of the groundbreaking > musician’s > > 74th birthday. With performances by some of the most prolific > artists > > dedicated to pushing the boundaries in the avant-jazz world the > same way > > Ayler did over 40 years ago, this festival will feature sets from > The New > > Atlantis Sextet with Marshall Allen, William Hooker, Charles > Gayle, > > Gunter Hampel, Giuseppi Logan, and more all taking place at > RiverWalk > > Commons on picturesque Roosevelt Island: NYC's Best Kept Secret. > > > > The outdoor festival will also feature a record fair with a > variety of > > new and used vinyl vendors hosted by ESP-Disk's own in-house > retail > > operation, ESP Records. > > > > Great live music, a great selection of vinyl& CDs, great food from > the > > local Roosevelt Island restaurants and a view of Manhattan that > can't be > > beat. What more could a music lover want on a summer day? > > > > Location& Directions: > > Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New York, F Train to > Roosevelt > > Island Map > > > > www.albertaylerfestival.com > > www.esprecodstore.com > > > > > > Performance Schedule: > > > > 2pm > > Giuseppi Logan Quartet > > Matt Lavelle: trumpet, bass clarinet > > Francois Grillot: bass > > Dave Miller: drums > > Giuseppi Logan: alto sax, bass clarinet (ESP 1007, 1013, 1055) > > > > > > 3pm > > Charles Gayle Trio > > Michael Wimberly: drums > > TBA: bass > > Charles Gayle: tenor sax > > > > 4pm > > Gunter Hampel Trio > > Gunter Hampel: vibraphones, bass clarinet (ESP 1042) > > > > 5pm > > Flow Trio > > > > Louie Belogenis: tenor sax (ESP 4052) > > > > Charles Downs: drums (ESP 4052) > > > > Joe Morris: bass (ESP 4052, 4056) > > > > > > > > 6pm > > William Hooker Trio featuring Sabir Mateen > > > > David Soldier: mandolin, banjo, violin > > Sabir Mateen: saxophone, flute, clarinet > > William Hooker: drums, spoken word > > > > > > 7pm > > New Atlantis Sextet featuring Marshall Allen > > Ed Ricart: guitar > > Sam Lohman: tba > > Andrew Barker: drums > > Danny Ray Thompson: flute > > Marshall Allen: alto saxophone (ESP 1008, 1014, 1017, 1045, 3033, > 4002, > > 4054, 4060) > > > > 8pm > > DJ Spun (Rong/DFA) > > > > > > > > > > > > Saturday July 10, 2010 from 2pm-10pm > > $ FREE $ > > > > ESP LIVE and Issue Project Room Presents in conjunction with > Roosevelt > > L!ve: > > The 1st Annual > > Albert Ayler Festival > > 'Record Fair& Musical Celebration' > > Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New York > > > > > > > > > > About Albert Ayler > > (July 13, 1936 – November 25, 1970) > > "Music is the Healing Force of the Universe," the title of > prolific > > free-jazz musician Ayler's fierce work for the Verve label in > 1969, sums > > up his musical vision and prowess behind the tenor-saxophone. Born > July > > 13th, 1936, Ayler didn’t make his mark playing his way up the > ranks in > > be-bop bands, yet he was exposed to the world of Little Walter > inspired > > R&B and the gritty sounds of the New Orleans tradition. Ayler > began > > making sparse, free arrangements of marching band tunes, brass > band > > explorations, and alto-experimentation that led him to be a > driving > > factor in the careers of everyone from > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines& sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:22:54 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Daniel Godston Organization: Borderbend Arts Collective Subject: interview with Vanessa Place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Recently I interviewed Vanessa Place. You can read the interview by clicking on this link: http://tinyurl.com/2folm5j Cheers, Dan ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:37:55 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CA, I am marooned in missouri without civilization or internet connection, yet I feel prone to respond. While I was utterly bowled over by 'Nine Horses' -- much to my surprise -- I am utterly disgusted by the recurring trope of "all she needs is a night with me." Also, Terri Gross is simply horrid. Thanks for sharing. On 7/7/10, John Cleary wrote: > Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference > should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should I > care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? > > I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > >> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! >> >> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! >> >> A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily >> Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing >> someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly >> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! >> >> What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual >> preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a >> lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS >> poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, >> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little >> sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her >> body. >> >> Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT >> very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting >> his poet laureate prick inside her! >> >> I VOMIT >> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY >> >> Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes >> such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES >> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE >> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! >> >> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the >> way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me >> think he needs to read Howe. >> >> When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for >> every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, >> I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! >> >> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear >> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how >> he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! >> >> CAConrad >> >> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: >> http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >> >> TAROT READINGS: >> http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com >> >> MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: >> http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com >> >> PhillySound: new poetry: >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- Sent from my mobile device ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:44:29 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 He wrote this poem a loong time ago. I've got a parody of it in my unpublished chap of poems I hate turned into love poems. I've got one in there for Marvin Bell's Emily Dickinson poem, too. There's an ENTIRE anthology of questionable Emily Dickinson poems. Janet Holmes MS OF MY KIN is pretty nice, tho. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:49:39 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: lesbians don't want...//geological survey of ED bio-fantasies-- MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "To shut the eyes is travel," Emily Dickinson wrote-- "I have but to cross the room to reach the Spice Islands." (Who knows, some psycho-babble--fantasy bio of today might say to "reach the Spice Girls"--??--) One might do a kind of geological survey of the succeeding strati of the investigations into ED's life, decade by decade, and "decode" this as a seismograph of the changing popular fads decade by decade for "psycho-biographical interpretations . . . "-- running one's eyes along the shelves of Dickinson lore, editions of Dickinson-- one faces a mirror not of the poet, but of the biographers-- a cracked mirror-- whose crevices, schisms, chasms, abysses, receding & advancing glaciers-- present the rhizomatic activities of a full blown "cottage" industry- My favorite Dickinson-related tome, though, takes a slightly different tack, though the changes in its name from one edition to another indicate some slight geological shifting going on here, as well. This is: *The Poet and the Murderer*: A True Story of Literary Crime and the Art of Forgery-- changed in its new edition to: *The Poet and the Murderer*: A True Story of Verse, Violence and the Art of Forgery. Note how "A True Story of Literary Crime" must be seen as "too 'literary'" and so is changed to "A True Story of Verse, Violence"-- someone thinking that "verse, violence" by its use of alliteration is both "more catchy" and "more poetic"-- I highly recommend this book, which concerns not only a forged document of ED's handwriting, but one of a forged--invented--"new" ED poem--so well forged it was purchased by Amherst as a crowning display for its ED collection--until . . . the honest person in charge's doubts intiates a trip straight into the bizarre, bomb filled world of anti-Mormon ex-Mormon Mark Hofmann, one of the great forgers of all time-- ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:25:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Maria, Gloria, Angela, Catherine, YES, thank you! SOLIDARITY WITH EMILY! (Catherine I'd love to see your poem!) And I actually had no idea that his poem was old. He's such a drag. John, the thing I try to make clear in my post is that it's VERY IMPORTANT information to Collins. Hearing him talk with Terry Gross completely grossed me out. First, sticking with the issue at hand, in his preface to reading his poem he is literally saying that THAT poem puts to rest the argument of her sexuality. As though all she needed was ONE NIGHT with Billy Zoom-Zoom Collins and she would be off women! His language suggests he is an antidote to an illness, or something. But he's clearly masturbated thinking about bringing Emily Dickinson to her senses. I VOMIT AGAIN FOR HER! And WHY didn't Terry Gross confront him???? I don't get it. What a lousy form for an interview! TELL HIM HE'S A JOKE! For crying out loud someone has to! The OTHER crime is how he discusses her poems. Simple this, and simple that. She's so simple. He talks as if she GOT LUCKY a lot when writing, or something. He didn't even allow her the surrealism in her poems, linking that to a regional view of the world. WHO INVITED HIM TO WRITE THIS INTRODUCTION TO HER NEW COLLECTION? It's horrible that it's him! They should have invited Susan Howe to write an introduction and edit the collection. Abhorrent man that Billy Phil Collins! And his poems stink! CAConrad poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:04:36 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This specific interview sounds horrible, but why do you say that Terry Gros= s is simply horrible? I don't listen to her very much, so I am not terribly= familiar with her interviewing style. I am just curious.=20 =A0 Mary --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Angela Vasquez-Giroux = wrote: From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 1:37 PM CA, I am marooned in missouri without civilization or internet connection, yet I feel prone to respond. While I was utterly bowled over by 'Nine Horses' -- much to my surprise -- I am utterly disgusted by the recurring trope of "all she needs is a night with me." Also, Terri Gross is simply horrid. Thanks for sharing. On 7/7/10, John Cleary wrote: > Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference > should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should I > care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? > > I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > >> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! >> >> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! >> >> A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily >> Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing >> someone about Dickinson's poems.=A0 So I tuned into NPR and instantly >> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! >> >> What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual >> preference(s).=A0 And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a >> lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS >> poem.=A0 Which he then read.=A0 It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, >> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little >> sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her >> body. >> >> Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT >> very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting >> his poet laureate prick inside her! >> >> I VOMIT >> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY >> >> Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes >> such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is.=A0 BUT THEN GOES >> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE >> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! >> >> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the >> way?=A0 Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me >> think he needs to read Howe. >> >> When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for >> every single library in the world!=A0 And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, >> I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! >> >> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins!=A0 Dear >> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how >> he likes gay sex!=A0 I'll let you know how it goes! >> >> CAConrad >> >> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: >> http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >> >> TAROT READINGS: >> http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com >> >> MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: >> http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com >> >> PhillySound: new poetry: >> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Sent from my mobile device =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 02:32:47 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nana Zabic Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CA et co., Billy Collins is more on the periphery of my world, a name whose bad poems often appear in poetry textbooks I peruse to decide what to use when I teach. I used to listen to NPR as white noise, but then I couldn't stand it even as that, so I stopped listening quite a while ago, and I didn't hear that interview. But based on what I know, I wanna put it out there that non-lesbians also don't want to be fucked by Billi Collins. Yuuuuck. CA, I think the best revenge is for you to write that poem "Undressing Billy Collins" if you can, but I understand if you're too repulsed. Snezana On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Catherine Daly wrote= : > He wrote this poem a loong time ago. =A0I've got a parody of it in my > unpublished chap of poems I hate turned into love poems. =A0I've got one = in > there for Marvin Bell's Emily Dickinson poem, too. > > There's an ENTIRE anthology of questionable Emily Dickinson poems. > > Janet Holmes MS OF MY KIN is pretty nice, tho. > > > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:33:18 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christine Hamm Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 6 Jul 2010 to 7 Jul 2010 (#2010-158) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable submit to ceehamm@gmail.com L= ALL SUBMISSIONS ARE DUE JULY 15TH!!=0A=0Asubmit to ceehamm@gmail.com=0A=0AL= ike a Fat Gold Watch: I am collecting an anthology of poems and more that c= elebrate Sylvia Plath=E2=80=99s life and works, but do not fetishize her su= icide and death. Please submit your work about Sylvia Plath for an antholog= y to come out in Fall of 2011. All texts/images must be either a response t= o her work, or her life, with one caveat =E2=80=94 they cannot be about dea= th or suicide. Work will be looked at more favorably if it responds to, for= example, The Bee Poems, rather than =E2=80=9CDaddy=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CLa= dy Lazarus=E2=80=9D. The book will be published through Fat Gold Watch Pres= s. Authors will get reduced price copies.=0A=0APlease send three to five po= ems, 1 essay, or 1 short story as either an rtf or doc attachment. For art = (black and white only), send a low res jpg -- if I am interested, I will as= k for a higher res version. For the subject heading, please write, Sylvia a= nd your name. For the cover letter, please include a short bio =E2=80=94 15= 0 words or less, and describe how your poems are a response to her work or = life. If there=E2=80=99s a particular poem you are responding to, please te= ll me its name. Submissions are due July 15, 2010, and you should hear back= by September 15. I am also considering essays, shorter than ten pages (dou= ble spaced), and black and white artwork.=0A=0AThe anthology will not be pu= blished if there is an insufficient amount of submissions.=0A=0ASend submis= sions to: ceehamm@gmail.com.=0AChristine Hamm=0A__________________=0A=0Awww= .christinehamm.com=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:10:35 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "a. tsai" Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John: I think this is a very good question. For myself, I am more interested in gender/sexual politics only as it exists in someone's WORK as one lens of examination of poetry (or literature) rather than as mere fascination/autobiography. But, I would further say that when it comes to programs that are meant for wide distribution, those questions are asked because the answers themselves are talked about widely and the mainstream public loves scandal and intrigue, not because it's a worthy question for discussion. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:08 AM, John Cleary wrote: > Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference > should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should I > care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? > > I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > >> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! >> >> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! >> >> A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily >> Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing >> someone about Dickinson's poems. =A0So I tuned into NPR and instantly >> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! >> >> What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual >> preference(s). =A0And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a >> lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS >> poem. =A0Which he then read. =A0It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, >> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little >> sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her >> body. >> >> Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT >> very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting >> his poet laureate prick inside her! >> >> I VOMIT >> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY >> >> Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes >> such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. =A0BUT THEN GOES >> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE >> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! >> >> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the >> way? =A0Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me >> think he needs to read Howe. >> >> When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for >> every single library in the world! =A0And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, >> I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! >> >> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! =A0Dear >> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how >> he likes gay sex! =A0I'll let you know how it goes! >> >> CAConrad >> >> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >> >> TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com >> >> MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: >> http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com >> >> PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:07:27 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "a. tsai" Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow, as a fellow lesbian, I agree with Conrad. I think CA should do the following: 1. Write Billy Collins a letter and include this email. 2. Send Billy Collins Susan Howe's book with an explanation as to why. 3. Write an article for a very prominent review that deals with the explicit exploitation and objectification involved both in the poem itself and in the act of using it as an argument regarding her sexual orientation. On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 9:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! > > SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! > > A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily > Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing > someone about Dickinson's poems. =A0So I tuned into NPR and instantly > cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! > > What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual > preference(s). =A0And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a > lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS > poem. =A0Which he then read. =A0It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, > and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little > sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her > body. > > Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT > very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting > his poet laureate prick inside her! > > I VOMIT > I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY > > Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes > such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. =A0BUT THEN GOES > AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE > WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! > > Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the > way? =A0Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me > think he needs to read Howe. > > When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for > every single library in the world! =A0And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, > I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! > > May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! =A0Dear > Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how > he likes gay sex! =A0I'll let you know how it goes! > > CAConrad > > poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com > > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: > http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > > PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 18:03:38 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- Robin Blaser, by Stan Persky and Brian Fawcett -- 12 or 20 questions: Sarah Selecky -- Jandak photography: how this photo came to be -- Ongoing notes: the Toronto Small Press Fair, spring 2010 -- Notes on writing, writing -- Canada Day, Happy: all about the right kind of cake -- a night above/ground: Irwin, Anstee + McCann -- Salmon Publishing, Ireland; a note, -- if i wrote greeting cards -- 12 or 20 questions: with Mark Goldstein -- fwd: new from AngelHousePress: Pirie & mclennan -- how to save This Ain't the Rosedale Library Bookstore -- father's day in yorkville -- Dusie 10: the Canadian issue, edited by rob mclennan -- The CUNY Poetics Document Initiative -- rob reads at Toronto RAMPIKE launch, June 24, Toronto -- nikki reimer, [sic] -- New American Writing 28 -- Bloomsday, Bloor West; -- Writing a process; the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education -- the toronto small press book fair, june 19 -- 12 or 20 questions: with Julie McArthur -- FORWARD; MTLS - Call for Submissions: Issue 7 and beyond -- 12 or 20 (small press) questions: Dave Proctor on Wooden Rockets Press -- 12 or 20 questions: with Susan Tichy -- Andy Weaver introduction for the TREE Reading Series -- Margaret Christakos, Welling -- Sandra Ridley, Fallout www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com + some other new things at the Chaudiere Booksblog www.chaudierebooks.blogspot.com -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:06:37 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Wed./Simon's Graceland & Johnston's Hi, How Are You Live MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Please forward ----------------- Boog City=92s Classic Albums Live presents our performers=92 choice albums Paul Simon Graceland and Daniel Johnston Hi, How Are You This Wed., July 14, 7:30 p.m. Free with a two-drink minimum Sidewalk Caf=E9 94 Ave. A NYC performed live by The Devil and Christy Davis Steve Espinola Dan Fishback Casey Holford Bob Kerr The Infringers Jesse Schoen Preston Spurlock The Trouble Dolls Kathy Zimmer Hosted by Boog City editor and publisher David Kirschenbaum Directions: F/V to 2nd Ave., L to 1st Ave. Venue is at E. 6th St. For further information: 212-842-BOOG (2664), editor@boogcity.com Musical acts=92 bios and websites follow show running order Paul Simon Graceland *Casey Holford The Boy in the Bubble Graceland I Know What I Know *Dan Fishback Gumboots *Kathy Zimmer Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes *Dan Fishback You Can Call Me Al *Jesse Schoen Under African Skies Homeless Crazy Love, Vol. II *The Infringers That Was Your Mother All Around the World or the Myth of Fingerprints Daniel Johnston Hi, How Are You *The Trouble Dolls Poor You Big Business Monkey Walking the Cow *Bob Kerr I Picture Myself With a Guitar Despair Came Knocking I Am A Baby (In My Universe) *Steve Espinola Nervous Love I'll Never Marry Get Yourself Together Running Water *Preston Spurlock Desperate Man Blues Hey Joe She Called Pest Control *The Devil and Christy Davis Keep Punching Joe No More Pushing Joe Around Bios: **Boog City http://www.welcometoboogcity.com Boog City is a New York City-based small press now in its 19th year =20 and East Village community newspaper of the same name. It has also =20 published 35 volumes of poetry and various magazines, featuring work =20 by Allen Ginsberg and Lawrence Ferlinghetti among others, and theme =20 issues on baseball, women=92s writing, and Louisville, Ky. It hosts and =20= curates two regular performance series=97d.a. levy lives: celebrating =20= the renegade press, where each month a non-NYC small press and its =20 writers and a musical act of their choosing is hosted at Chelsea=92s ACA = =20 Galleries; and Classic Albums Live, where up to 13 local musical acts =20= perform a classic album live at venues including The Bowery Poetry =20 Club, Cake Shop, CBGB=92s, and The Knitting Factory. Past albums have =20= included Elvis Costello, My Aim is True; Nirvana, Nevermind; =20 Radiohead, OK Computer; and Liz Phair, Exile in Guyville. **The Devil and Christy Davis Christy Davis is a drummer and singer/songwriter who has been playing =20= in bands since 1989. She plays with Olive Juice Music's Kansas State =20 Flower and has been a part of many projects, including Rebecca Moore =20 and the Prevention of Blindness, Reverend Billy and His Stop Shopping =20= Choir, and the popular kid's band Audrarox. Christy was the lead singer and drummer for the band Mold from =20 1993-1999. She has recently reunited with the two guitarists from Mold =20= to work on their new instrumental project, Gatos de Sensei. While =20 playing with Rebecca Moore, she had the honor of playing on the same =20 bill as Lou Reed, Laurie Anderson, Marc Ribot, and Lee Ranaldo as part =20= of a tribute show for John Zorn at Town Hall in NYC. She will be =20 joined by Glenn Hillman and Jim Williams (AKA "Southside Slim") for =20 this show. **Steve Espinola http://www.steveespinola.com/ Recently, Steve played on a bunch of recordings by the fabulous =20 Sprinkle Genies. Check 'em out! Steve is now producing several songs =20 for their next album, and seems to be evolving into a sometimes 6th =20 member of the band. Steve also plays piano on songs at the myspace page of Tom Warnick and =20= the World's Fair, a great band. (Tom is the guitarist on "Bumbling =20 Along.") Steve was a longtime member of the magical, fondly remembered =20= Dan Emery Mystery Band. A bit of a band slut, Steve has also played keys and/or electric =20 tennis racket on NYC gigs and/or recordings of The Moldy Peaches =20 (=93Jorge Regula=94), Sport Murphy, Amy X Neuberg, Peter Dizozza, Debby =20= Schwartz, Dan Fishback, cub, Lisa Marr, and Dallam Dougou, to name a =20 mere few. For a recent stretch, Steve played piano for The Teenage Prayers, and =20= the gospel oriented offshoot of the Prayers and Steve Wynn, Hazel =20 Motes. He toured Europe extensively with Steve Wynn in the olden days. =20= Espinola and Malcolm Rollick improv=92d together rather magically at one = =20 of her shows, and the song, =93Don=92t Stop Reading Me the News=94 is on = her =20 myspace page if you click on her name. **Dan Fishback http://www.danfishback.com/ Dan Fishback has been writing and performing in New York City since =20 2003. Major works include "You Will Experience Silence" (Dixon =20 Place), "No Direction Homo" (P.S. 122), and "Please Let Me Love =20 You" (Dixon Place), among others. His band Cheese On Bread has toured =20= Europe and North America and released albums in the United States and =20= Japan. Fishback has had artists residencies at Yaddo and the MacDowell =20= Colony, and was a 2007-2009 recipient of the Six Points Fellowship for =20= Emerging Jewish Artists. He is a 2010-2011 Artist-in-Residence at =20 Brooklyn Arts Exchange, where he is developing "thirtynothing," a solo =20= performance about growing up in the shadow of the AIDS epidemic. His =20 new musical, "The Material World," will be workshopped in the HOT! =20 Festival at Dixon Place on July 22nd at 7pm. **Casey Holford http://caseyholford.com/ http://framedfractions.com/ Casey Holford is a musician, producer, and photographer living in =20 Brooklyn. He has played in the bands Outlines, Urban Barnyard, Art =20 Sorority for Girls, Gilmore Boys, and too many others to list in this =20= space. He has produced recent albums for Phoebe Kreutz and Erin Regan, =20= and toured the U.S. and Europe playing his songs. His music and photos =20= exist online at the above sites. **Bob Kerr Bob Kerr is a playwright living in Brooklyn. He was in the band Alien =20= Detector while he lived in Minneapolis, where he also served as =20 musical director for Bedlam Theatre=92s production of Land Without =20 Trees. He wrote the book and lyrics for the 10-minute musical The =20 Sticky-Fingered Fiancee with composer Mat Eisenstein, and often writes =20= songs for his own plays. **The Infringers Valerie is a drummer and guitar player from New Orleans who is =20 recently in collaboration with keyboardist Philip Cooper of Portland, =20= Ore. Her background extends to punk, bluegrass, and bohemian folk =20 rock, while Philip's is in experimental electronic music and =20 pschedelic dance-pop. Former bands include Skin Verb (featuring poet =20 Brett Evans) and Los Regretos=97the country and bluegrass auction band =20= of Louisiana. Philip was in the Sensualists and Light White of Portland. **Jesse Schoen http://www.myspace.com/jesseschoen Dystopian sci-fi, inept technicians, and the universe=92s tendency =20 toward chaos inspire Jesse Schoen=92s songs. He lives in Chelsea. **Preston Spurlock http://www.myspace.com/prestonspurlock Born and raised in South Florida, Preston Spurlock has been making lo-=20= fi bedroom records for eight years. He started making a name for =20 himself in the NYC arts community in 2004, performing solo as The =20 Sewing Circle, as well as in groups including the Elastic No-No Band =20 and Huggabroomstik. Influenced equally by postpunk, bluegrass, avant-=20 garde composition, and novelty music, Preston=92s rough-hewn songs are =20= idiosyncratic and intimate. He=92s also a visual artist and short =20 filmmaker. He will be your friend. **The Trouble Dolls http://www.troubledolls.net/ Trouble Dolls are Cheri, Matty, and Chris. They play pop music. They =20 are from Brooklyn. They do not smoke. Their album "Sticky" is =20 available on Half a Cow Records. They thank you for coming to see them =20= play. **Kathy Zimmer http://www.kathyzimmermusic.com/ If sophistication and open-hearted goodwill could combine into a =20 sound, what would it be? Enter Kathy Zimmer, a New York City singer/=20 songwriter sporting a richly wistful set of pipes and speaking the =20 language of shell-shocked wildflowers. If you=92re looking in earnest =20= for something new, this is it. Here=92s a theory: Joni Mitchell is less jazz and more art song=85 as = is =20 Kathy Zimmer. The girl in the upstairs choir is originally from the =20 rural Great Plains, and she sings to the world with a clear voice and =20= a clear gaze. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 15:10:34 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" wow and nice going, CA Conrad.=20 here is a link to the show although you can hammer sharp nails into vulne= rable=20 portions of your body to get the same effect as listening offers. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3D128272101 to John: i dislike the solidification of inclination. all this all that.= i don't care.=20 finally, & i feel like governor patterson announcing to the press whe= n he took=20 office that he'd had affairs (me, too), but i wrote the poem "Emily Dicki= nson Is=20 Jewish" -- published in Fine Madness; and last yr. a student presented a = paper=20 on it at some conference in Hungary. backchannel and i'll send it to anyo= ne.=20 without apology. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:13:06 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "I also wish I could hear the experimental curato=". Rest of header flushed. From: steve russell Subject: Re: my first one man show and.. In-Reply-To: <4C336893.8090008@digitalsalon.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wish I could be there 2.=0AI also wish I could hear the experimental curato= rs ...=C2=A0experiment.=0A=0ABlues Alley is the last remaining jazz club in= D. C. =C2=A0=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Allan = Revich =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent:= Tue, July 6, 2010 1:32:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: my first one man show and..=0A= =0ACongratulations Steve!=0A=0AI wish I could be there for the show.=0A=0AA= llan=0A=0AOn 7/5/2010 8:52 AM, steve dalachinsky wrote:=0A>=C2=A0 please ch= eck out my first=0A> one man show of assemblage abnd collage=0A>=C2=A0 in l= ower gallery at fusion arts gallery=0A> 57 stanton street manhattan=0A>=0A>= also i will be reading at the stone with pianist matthew shipp=0A> on augu= st 18th at 10pm preceeded by stephanie stone with yuko otomo and=0A> eve pa= cker=0A>=0A> and=0A>=0A> The 1st Annual=0A> Albert Ayler Festival=0A> Recor= d Fair&=C2=A0 Musical Celebration=0A>=0A>=0A> steve dalachinsky will read a= poem and mc this event=0A>=0A> Saturday July 10th, 2010=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Hi= ghly influential jazz label teams up with leading experimental curators=0A>= to honor Albert Ayler on the anniversary of his 74th birthday=0A> with a f= ree outdoor day-long tribute concert on Roosevelt Island.=0A>=0A>=0A> "Musi= c Is the Healing Force of the Universe"=0A>=0A>=0A> In celebration of the l= ife and music of legendary free-jazz=0A> tenor-saxophonist Albert Ayler, ES= P-Disk=E2=80=99 and Issue Project Room, in=0A> conjunction with Roosevelt L= !ve have curated a day-long free concert,=0A> Saturday July 10th from 2-10p= m, in honor of the groundbreaking musician=E2=80=99s=0A> 74th birthday.=C2= =A0 With performances by some of the most prolific artists=0A> dedicated to= pushing the boundaries in the avant-jazz world the same way=0A> Ayler did = over 40 years ago, this festival will feature sets from The New=0A> Atlanti= s Sextet with Marshall Allen, William Hooker, Charles Gayle,=0A> Gunter Ham= pel, Giuseppi Logan, and more all taking place at RiverWalk=0A> Commons on = picturesque Roosevelt Island: NYC's Best Kept Secret.=0A>=0A> The outdoor f= estival will also feature a record fair with a variety of=0A> new and used = vinyl vendors hosted by ESP-Disk's own in-house retail=0A> operation, ESP R= ecords.=0A>=0A> Great live music, a great selection of vinyl&=C2=A0 CDs, gr= eat food from the=0A> local Roosevelt Island restaurants and a view of Manh= attan that can't be=0A> beat. What more could a music lover want on a summe= r day?=0A>=0A> Location&=C2=A0 Directions:=0A> Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt= Island, New York,=C2=A0 F Train to Roosevelt=0A> Island Map=0A>=0A> www.al= bertaylerfestival.com=0A> www.esprecodstore.com=0A>=0A>=0A> Performance Sch= edule:=0A>=0A> 2pm=0A> Giuseppi Logan Quartet=0A> Matt Lavelle: trumpet, ba= ss clarinet=0A> Francois Grillot: bass=0A> Dave Miller: drums=0A> Giuseppi = Logan: alto sax, bass clarinet (ESP 1007, 1013, 1055)=0A>=0A>=0A> 3pm=0A> C= harles Gayle Trio=0A> Michael Wimberly: drums=0A> TBA: bass=0A> Charles Gay= le: tenor sax=0A>=0A> 4pm=0A> Gunter Hampel Trio=0A> Gunter Hampel: vibraph= ones, bass clarinet (ESP 1042)=0A>=0A> 5pm=0A> Flow Trio=0A>=0A> Louie Belo= genis: tenor sax (ESP 4052)=0A>=0A> Charles Downs: drums (ESP 4052)=0A>=0A>= Joe Morris: bass (ESP 4052, 4056)=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> 6pm=0A> William Hooker T= rio featuring Sabir Mateen=0A>=0A> David Soldier: mandolin, banjo, violin= =0A> Sabir Mateen: saxophone, flute, clarinet=0A> William Hooker: drums, sp= oken word=0A>=0A>=0A> 7pm=0A> New Atlantis Sextet featuring Marshall Allen= =0A> Ed Ricart: guitar=0A> Sam Lohman: tba=0A> Andrew Barker: drums=0A> Dan= ny Ray Thompson: flute=0A> Marshall Allen: alto saxophone (ESP 1008, 1014, = 1017, 1045, 3033, 4002,=0A> 4054, 4060)=0A>=0A> 8pm=0A> DJ Spun (Rong/DFA)= =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> Saturday July 10, 2010 from 2pm-10pm=0A> $ FREE $= =0A>=0A> ESP LIVE and Issue Project Room Presents in conjunction with Roose= velt=0A> L!ve:=0A> The 1st Annual=0A> Albert Ayler Festival=0A> 'Record Fai= r&=C2=A0 Musical Celebration'=0A> Riverwalk Commons, Roosevelt Island, New = York=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> About Albert Ayler=0A> (July 13, 1936 =E2=80=93 No= vember 25, 1970)=0A> "Music is the Healing Force of the Universe," the titl= e of prolific=0A> free-jazz musician Ayler's fierce work for the Verve labe= l in 1969, sums=0A> up his musical vision and prowess behind the tenor-saxo= phone. Born July=0A> 13th, 1936, Ayler didn=E2=80=99t make his mark playing= his way up the ranks in=0A> be-bop bands, yet he was exposed to the world = of Little Walter inspired=0A> R&B and the gritty sounds of the New Orleans = tradition. Ayler began=0A> making sparse, free arrangements of marching ban= d tunes, brass band=0A> explorations, and alto-experimentation that led him= to be a driving=0A> factor in the careers of everyone from=0A>=0A> =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated&=C2=A0 does not acc= ept all posts. Check guidelines&=C2=A0 =0A>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffa= lo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guid= elines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 13:21:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jeanette Winterson (Art Objects: Essays on Ecstasy and Effrontery) explains= .=0A=0ABilly Collins, to sort of quote C A C, =A0is a prick.=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A= =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Cleary =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Wed, July 7, 2010 11:08:= 03 AM=0ASubject: Re: lesbians don't want...=0A=0ACould someone explain whet= her or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference=0Ashould matter in an unders= tanding and appreciation of her work? Should I=0Acare, does it inform me so= mehow, to know if a writer is gay or not?=0A=0AI am not being snarky, I am = legitimately wondering.=0A=0AOn Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote:=0A=0A> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins!=0A>=0A>= SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS!=0A>=0A> A dear friend of mine who knows how = much I LOVE the poetry of Emily=0A> Dickinson called me today to tell me th= at Terry Gross was interviewing=0A> someone about Dickinson's poems.=A0 So = I tuned into NPR and instantly=0A> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (t= he Phil Collins of poetry!)!=0A>=0A> What ANGERED me most was when they wer= e discussing her possible sexual=0A> preference(s).=A0 And he said, HE ACTU= ALLY SAID, that whether she was a=0A> lesbian or not, HE was going to put t= o rest this argument with HIS=0A> poem.=A0 Which he then read.=A0 It's call= ed UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON,=0A> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and = how she sighs and makes little=0A> sounds in between his removing various i= tems of clothing from her=0A> body.=0A>=0A> Whether she was a lesbian or no= t, it's pretty clear to me that THAT=0A> very issue turned him on enough to= write his sexual fantasy of putting=0A> his poet laureate prick inside her= !=0A>=0A> I VOMIT=0A> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY=0A>=0A> Not only that, if you l= isten to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes=0A> such a big deal about how i= rrelevant her biography is.=A0 BUT THEN GOES=0A> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORT= ANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE=0A> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD ST= RAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)!=0A>=0A> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY= EMILY DICKINSON by the=0A> way?=A0 Because his excessively reductive view = of her poems makes me=0A> think he needs to read Howe.=0A>=0A> When I win t= he lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for=0A> every single = library in the world!=A0 And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT,=0A> I'll just put i= n on the shelf MYSELF!=0A>=0A> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on= Billy Collins!=A0 Dear=0A> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BIL= LY COLLINS, to see how=0A> he likes gay sex!=A0 I'll let you know how it go= es!=0A>=0A> CAConrad=0A>=0A> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: =0A>http://CAConra= d.blogspot.com=0A>=0A> TAROT READINGS: =0A>h= ttp://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com=0A>=0A= > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s:=0A> http://CAConradMP3= .blogspot.com =0A>=0A> PhillySound: new p= oetry: =0A>http://PhillySound.blogspot.com=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated &= does not accept all posts. Check guidelines=0A> & sub/unsub info: http://e= pc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A= The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:14:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: charles alexander Subject: 4 New Books from Chax Press Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing 4 New Books from Chax Press Special Offer Through August 15 Buy any one for $15, any two for $26, any three for $35, or all four =20 for $45, and pay no shipping charges (for US Domestic Media Mail =20 only). Orders must be paid for by check or credit card in advance of =20 shipment. Add $5 for Priority Mail. Add $8 for international shipping =20= for one book, $11 for two, $13 for three, or $15 for four. Order by =20 mail with check to Chax Press, 411 N 7th Ave Ste 103, Tucson, AZ =20 85705-8388; or order by phone to 520-620-1626 (hours are irregular; we =20= will return your call). Inquiries by email to chax@theriver.com. 1. Leslie Scalapino, Flow =97 Winged Crocodile & A Pair / Actions are =20= Erased / Appear Two Plays ISBN: 9780925904935 117 pages $16 "For myself and the cast, directing Leslie Scalapino's FLOW has been =20 an extraordinary journey into language and the language in breath, the =20= rhythms of effort to say as precisely as her savage delicacy of =20 thought, her forcing us all to assume nothing in examining the =20 fineness of our implication in each other" =97 Fiona Templeton. 2. Charles Olson, The Principle of Measure in Composition by Field: =20 Projective Verse II, ed. by Joshua Hoeynck Work from the Olson archive, an important edition to the original =20 Projective Verse essay by Olson. ISBN 9780925904959 56 pages $15 "A poem has so many things to which it must do equal justice if it is =20= to establish its own bounds (be inclusive). They can be summarized =20 (and my intent here is to say it all): atomism (that sounds, at no =20 smallest point ain=92t also particles, as both said & heard); continuity = =20 (that old flow still flows, even though statement can no longer be an =20= adequate syntax to it =96 wave is wave of something at all points, both =20= the particle and, because it is a thing, its =91environment=92 =96 what, = its =20 passing through, it is different by as well as what it catches up, =20 what adheres to it); causation (but not that moralistic one =96 the =20 Coleridgian =96 of fact & reason; cause in physical sensation, the =20 obverse of which =96 what lies under it =96 giving it its allowance at =20= all, that the systematic geometries occur superficially as the face =20 of, cause); memory (than whom there is still no muse more, the more =20 that things, in their retention, put more demand on the poet than =20 merely his =91own=92 material, shall we say); perception (of which the =20= same extension as of memory needs to be emphasized =96 that the =20 conceptual, no matter how =91mental,=92 and as such the dipolar to =20 perception, still a powerful discrimination is basic, it is this, the =20= actualities have to be felt, while the pure potentials can be =20 dismissed. This is the great distinction between an actual entity =20 (nothing is there except for feeling) and an eternal object (Idea). A =20= poem is made up of both." =97 Charles Olson, from =93Notes on Poetics (towards Projective Verse = II)=94 3. Mark Weiss, As Landscape 114 pages Poetry ISBN 9780925904768 $16 "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of =20= particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and =20 through very one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, =20 Weiss=92 fragments are like Chekhov=92s short stories=97the more that = gets =20 left out, the more they seem to contain." =97 Mike Stephens (from review in Jacket) 4. Jonathan Stalling, Grotto Heaven ISBN 9780925904928 Poetry 80 pages $16 "In this book, Jonathan Stalling extends to us his hospitality. Enter =20= this grotto, this book of poems a haven & lodge for light & dark, made =20= by Jonathan Stalling with an ethics of respect & reverence. Pen opens =20= to penumbra, shadowing each word. This book constitutes an attentive =20 reaching, reading, a leaning into language, so that learning an other =20= language rhymes with listening to & learning the emerging language-=20 scape of one=92s own child. In Stalling=92s book we are lodged here, in =20= poems, in a place allowing passage back & forth from the mystery of =20 =93I=94 and =93we=94 to the mysterious housings of words in our language = and =20 in others. Words, characters, & embodiments make up the =20 constellations, the figured stars within a larger darkness. I =20 recommend to you Grotto Heaven as a fine place to take up lodging. " =97Hank Lazer charles alexander chax@theriver.com chax press / poetry & the book arts 411 n seventh ave ste 103 / tucson, az 85705-8388 Chax Press Summer Intensive in book arts and creative writing, July =20 12-25, 2010 DONATE TO CHAX PRESS at http://chax.org/donate.htm Chax Press is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, and your =20 contribution is tax deductible. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:27:48 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: July 10: Literary Science Fair in Chicago MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Chicago Underground Library celebrates the Science of Obscurity!=20 SATURDAY, JULY 10th from 7=E2=80=9310pm at the Jupiter Outpost 1139 W. Fulton Market -- Chicago, IL this event is free & for all ages=20 food & drink will be available for sale An annual lead up event to the Printers=E2=80=99 Ball featuring new, unpubl= ished, and in-progress works presented as science fair experiments. Join a= n awesome line up of writers, designers, and publishers as the intricately = explain the scientific principles underlying their work, real or imagined.= =20 Reading experiments with Jennifer Karmin!=20 Storigami with Zach Dodson!=20 Distress charts with A D Jameson!=20 Teenage taxonomies with Mairead Case!=20 Curmudgeonly cuttlefish with Libby Walker!=20 Hand-cranked projector mad libs with Two With Water!=20 All participants will also have work for sale. Special projects from the Society of Furthering Truth (SOFT), The Book Bike= , readings from Featherproof Books=E2=80=99 iPhone application TripleQuick,= surprise musical guests, video interviews with the CUL crew about your fav= orite forgotten and under-recognized Chicago publishers and writers. The night will also feature a public =E2=80=9Cbook launch=E2=80=9D via cata= pult, scientist speed dating, and digital readings to warm your hardened te= chie heart. Left and right brains come together, print <3s digital, everyon= e wins when the laws of physics and literature collide. If you=E2=80=99re a writer, publisher, bookmaker, or booklover of any strip= e who has recently finished writing a book, has published a book in the pas= t year, or just feels like taking out some aggression on a publication of y= our choice, we invite you to celebrate by participating in our public readi= ng and launching your work into space--or at least halfway down the block. = We define "book" broadly, so zines, magazines, chapbooks, textbooks, and mo= re are welcome. Read a paragraph, then release! And if you want to donate y= our book to the collection of the Chicago Underground Library after it=E2= =80=99s caught some air, we=E2=80=99re here for you. About the Chicago Underground Library The Chicago Underground Library provides an open forum for creative exchang= e between all producers and patrons of Chicago=E2=80=99s independent media,= facilitating collaboration and awareness between diverse communities. Thro= ugh innovative and inclusive approaches to acquisitions, cataloging and pro= gramming, we illuminate connections and provide both a historical and conte= mporary context for the creation of new local media. http://www.underground-library.org/ http://www.facebook.com/chicago.underground.library About the Printers=E2=80=99 Ball Founded by Poetry magazine with other independent Chicago literary organiza= tions, the Printers=E2=80=99 Ball is an annual celebration of print culture= , featuring thousands of magazines, books, and broadsides available free of= charge; live readings and music; letterpress, offset, and paper-making dem= onstrations; and much more. The Printers=E2=80=99 Ball is co-produced with = Columbia College Chicago and the Center for Book & Paper Arts, and takes pl= ace July 30th, 2010 in Chicago's landmark Ludington Building, former home t= o the American Book Company, at 1104 South Wabash. http://www.printersball.org/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/THE-PRINTERS-BALL/113776545311074 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:02:41 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: aslongasittakes Subject: aslongasittakes issue 5 is now live In-Reply-To: <4AD3234A.4000903@comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Issue five of aslongasitakes is finally out! The issue includes an improvised performance by the Atlanta Poets Group, a vocal drone by Shane Jesse Christmass, a digital haunt by Andy June, an audio cut-up by gtrabbit, phonetic tapestries by Gabe Raines, a glitchy, gremlined ditty by Francis Raven, a computer-interactive piece by Hazel Smith and Roger Dean, and a chambered dub by Jasmine Tutum. We hope you enjoy, and we're always looking for submissions. James Sanders > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:24:49 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Aldonlnielsen Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (iPad Mail 7B367) the form of the question is a bit odd - "should" it make a difference? - = there must be an entire series of presuppositions in place about the = reading of poetry before anyone can answer that one. =20 "does" it make a difference? it already has if we ask the question. Aldon Lynn Nielsen Kelly Professor of American Literature Department of English 117 Burrowes Building The Pennsylvania State University University Park, PA 16802-6200 I never wanted to be the man who broke your heart -- Only wanted to be the man who wrote the song -- That broke your heart On Jul 7, 2010, at 8:08 AM, John Cleary wrote: > Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual = preference > should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should = I > care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? >=20 > I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. >=20 > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad = wrote: >=20 >> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! >>=20 >> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! >>=20 >> A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily >> Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was = interviewing >> someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly >> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! >>=20 >> What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible = sexual >> preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a >> lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS >> poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, >> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes = little >> sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her >> body. >>=20 >> Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT >> very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of = putting >> his poet laureate prick inside her! >>=20 >> I VOMIT >> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY >>=20 >> Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes >> such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES >> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT = HE >> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! >>=20 >> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the >> way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me >> think he needs to read Howe. >>=20 >> When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for >> every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, >> I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! >>=20 >> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear >> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how >> he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! >>=20 >> CAConrad >>=20 >> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: = http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >>=20 >> TAROT READINGS: = http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com >>=20 >> MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: >> http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com >>=20 >> PhillySound: new poetry: = http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >>=20 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 Reply-To: sherwood@iup.edu Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kenneth Sherwood Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English, especially book-length collections that might be described as documentary or social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal moment, be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are somewhat flexible; I'll list some of the titles I've already come up with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family resemblance to these: Charles Reznikoff, _Testimony_ Muriel Rukeyser, _US 1_ Kamau Brathwaite, _Middle Passages_ Rosemarie Waldrop, _A Key Into the Language of America_ Mark Nowak, _Coal Mountain Elementary_ Allen Ginsberg, _Kaddish_ David Antin, _Code of Flag Behavior_ WC Williams, _Paterson_ Charles Olson, _Maximus_ Melvin Tolson, _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ Susan Howe, _Singularities_ Lorine Niedecker, "North Central" Jerome Rothenberg, "14 Stations" Thanks for any help. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:01:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Fox Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Susan Howe's MED is my favorite book of lit crit/biography, I would even favorite it categorized as poetry, and now that it's recently reprinted obviously every library should have it! I will join that crusade. And can't WAIT to read Undressing Billy Collins! HAVE FUN! Your fan, S. Fox On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > He wrote this poem a loong time ago. I've got a parody of it in my > unpublished chap of poems I hate turned into love poems. I've got one in > there for Marvin Bell's Emily Dickinson poem, too. > > There's an ENTIRE anthology of questionable Emily Dickinson poems. > > Janet Holmes MS OF MY KIN is pretty nice, tho. > > > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:13:19 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Calum Gardner Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) I feel inclined to stick up for him a little. I admit "Taking Off Emily Dickinson's Clothes" seems straightforwardly abhorrent. Like, the line "it was like riding a swan into the night": that line for me fell out of the offensive tree and hit every branch on the way down. So: was it pushed? Looked at with critical detachment, can this poem possibly not be DESIGNED to excruciate? Calum On 7 Jul 2010, at 03:08, CA Conrad wrote: > ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! > > SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! > > A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily > Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing > someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly > cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! > > What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual > preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a > lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS > poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, > and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little > sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her > body. > > Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT > very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting > his poet laureate prick inside her! > > I VOMIT > I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY > > Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes > such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES > AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE > WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! > > Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the > way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me > think he needs to read Howe. > > When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for > every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, > I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! > > May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear > Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how > he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! > > CAConrad > > poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com > > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: > http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > > PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 13:51:03 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: <739433.58184.qm@web51805.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For me, it's a combination of the questions (asking Catherine Deneauve - sp?) If she still wore perfume (wtf???) and her insipid laughter. It's as tho she has no real background on her topics -- if she did, she wdnt have allowed collins to write dickinson off as simple. On 7/7/10, Mary Kasimor wrote: > This specific interview sounds horrible, but why do you say that Terry Gr= oss > is simply horrible? I don't listen to her very much, so I am not terribly > familiar with her interviewing style. I am just curious. > > Mary > --- On Wed, 7/7/10, Angela Vasquez-Giroux > wrote: > > > From: Angela Vasquez-Giroux > Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Wednesday, July 7, 2010, 1:37 PM > > > CA, I am marooned in missouri without civilization or internet > connection, yet I feel prone to respond. While I was utterly bowled > over by 'Nine Horses' -- much to my surprise -- I am utterly disgusted > by the recurring trope of "all she needs is a night with me." > > Also, Terri Gross is simply horrid. > > Thanks for sharing. > > On 7/7/10, John Cleary wrote: >> Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference >> should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should I >> care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? >> >> I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. >> >> On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: >> >>> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! >>> >>> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! >>> >>> A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily >>> Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing >>> someone about Dickinson's poems.=A0 So I tuned into NPR and instantly >>> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! >>> >>> What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual >>> preference(s).=A0 And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a >>> lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS >>> poem.=A0 Which he then read.=A0 It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, >>> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little >>> sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her >>> body. >>> >>> Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT >>> very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting >>> his poet laureate prick inside her! >>> >>> I VOMIT >>> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY >>> >>> Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes >>> such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is.=A0 BUT THEN GOES >>> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE >>> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! >>> >>> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the >>> way?=A0 Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me >>> think he needs to read Howe. >>> >>> When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for >>> every single library in the world!=A0 And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, >>> I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! >>> >>> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins!=A0 Dear >>> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how >>> he likes gay sex!=A0 I'll let you know how it goes! >>> >>> CAConrad >>> >>> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: >>> http://CAConrad.blogspot.com >>> >>> TAROT READINGS: >>> http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com >>> >>> MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: >>> http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com >>> >>> PhillySound: new poetry: >>> http://PhillySound.blogspot.com >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > -- > Sent from my mobile device > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 Sent from my mobile device =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:13:22 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry Comments: To: sherwood@iup.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Kenneth-- In the tradition of his great grandfather Herman Melville=2C Paul Metcalf c= ombined documentary materials with fiction (as Melville does in Moby Dick)= --in his great collage book Genoa: A Telling of Wonders=2C which is a novel= interspersed with writings of Melville's and the Dairies of Columbus. Met= calf then went further=2C creating works which are completely made of other= s' writing=2C arranged as both historical/geological/floarl/fauna documenta= ry materials arranged with a brilliant ear=2C creating music out of documen= tary (non-literary often) texts--his masterpiece in this vein is APALACHE--= not a word of it being Paul's=2C yet at the same time=2C by way of his eye= =2C ears=2C hands=2C tongue making the materials both intensely personal an= d and opening them outwards as though they have arisen from the ground itse= lf. (Paul lived for some time on Quarry Road=2C very appropriately=2C as S= usan Howe once pointed out--Paul had a great influence/effect on Howe's wri= tings=2C as he himself had made use of Olson's works--minus the misogyny.) = Other works by Paul treat the landscape=2C the shifting of the earth's tect= onic plates in relation with migraines and a trip on route I-57=2C through = Illinois=2C investigating the history and landscape of the region a he cele= brates being"I-57" (he literally had just become "I-57" as in--Paul Metcalf= =2C 57 years old.) Several others of Paul's works combine documentary mate= rials with a kind of theatrical performance=2C a staging of historical even= ts and personages in an imagined and associate theater --as in BOTH=2C a bo= ok which combines the lives & personages of John Wilkes Booth & Edgar Allan= Poe (Booth/Poe yielding the "both" of the tile.) The performance and thea= tre aspect of the book=2C (Paul also wrote plays and performed in a few)-- = of course=2C has as cathartic event the famous night in Ford's theater=2C i= n which Booth plays the role of his life & assassinates President Lincoln.= =20 Place also plays a great role=2C is a great theme in Metcalf's works--as in= Apalache & I-57--and in others works such as Huscaran=2C regarding he Indi= ans of Peru=2C and The Wonderful White Whale of Kansas=2C which combines th= e life and works of Franck Baum author of the Oz Books=2C with Moby Dick in= to a study of the meaning of home. Waters of Potomac=2C like Apache is the= "telling of --historical/geological/botanical etc--of wonders of that regi= on=2C told=2C like Apalache via the poetic arrangement of documentary mater= ials. In Zip Odes=2C small poems are composed for each state in the Union = by using places names in the different Zip Code areas of rhe country. Many = other works combines geographical an historical materials linking race trac= ks in North Carolinia with sites and histories in South America-- Though Metcal's works are in prose=2C it is a prose which traverses many mo= dulations of the prose poem=2C making use of the lyrical impulse=2C the "vo= ices" of history as in Pound's and WCW's works=2C documentary drawing on p= opular culture and contemporary historical events as John Dos Passos did in= the USA trilogy=2C and the grandeur a form of epic in APALACHE. Though th= e form is in physical appearance prose or prose poem=2C the underlying stru= cturing of the works is via the ear=2C via the poetic impulses and rhythms = which run through the flow of time=2C history=2C ge0ology=2C the lives of p= eople=2C places=2C things=2C animals=2C insects=2C plants-- Often the poetry of Metcalf's most astonishing passages attains the conditi= on of music-Paul was a great admirer of another user of documentary materia= ls=2C composer Charles Ives.=20 Coffee House=2C fortunately while Paul was stil alive--published a magnific= ent three volume Collected Works by Paul=2C which includes also his theatri= cal pieces and essays.=20 Asked at one point about his "collage" style of poetic/documentary construc= tion=2C Paul jokingly called it "Totem Paul"--a vertical construction of th= e materials in space and time.=20 In another joking vein=2C as though seeing a cockeyed reflection of his own= mixture of the documentary and other genres/media=2C Paul once wrote to me= that a collage in Missouri was offering a course in the "South Sea Island = Works of Herman Melville and the Hwiian films of Elvis Presley." Paul was greatly admired by poets=2C more so than by prose writers. Besides= Susan Howe=2C Robert Creeley was a great admirer of his works=2C s was Cla= rk Coolidge=2C among many others. For roughly a decade Paul and his wife Na= ncy lived in close proximity to Black Mountain College and often attended e= vents there as well as developing friendships with many of the poets and ar= tists.=20 Paul first met Charles Olson when the latter was traveling about New Englan= d & New York=2C in search of the scattered volumes of Melville's library--w= ith an eye towards assebling as many of the volumes as possible for the lit= erary treasures they contained by way of Melville's Marginalia. 12-14 years= old at the time=2C the much older Olson appeared to Paul as yet another on= e of the stream of Melville fans and obssssed fanatics=2C though far larger= =2C and far more intensely essaying not only to collect information=2C but = to become=2C as much as possible=2C a member of the Melville/Metcalf family= line. For example=2C a vivid memory of Paul's was watching the gigaticall= y framed Olson trying to hide behind bushes as he followed Melville's daugh= ter down the street=2C trying to imitate her wlk=2C as though a "magical" = way of "walking the walk" or "faking it until you make it" would transform = him into an actual "embodiment" of the Melville "line." I can't recommend Paul's work to you highly enough=2C with the understandin= g=2C however=2C that he may not be techncally/formally speaking=2C conventi= onally "poet enough" to "qualify." As Prose poetry=2C perhaps Paul's work m= ight qualify-- Another work which is similar in some ways to Paul's is the brilliant Smith= sonian Decompositions by Clark Coolidge. I would highly recommend this wo= rk=2C also--as Coolidge weaves a poetic "narrative" od a sort by combining = quotes from interviews with Jean-Luc Godard=2C historical=2C geological tex= ts=2C quotations from various fictional/poetical works linked by both assoc= iative trains of thought and the poetry of pure sound (as does Paul). Smith= sonian Decompositions=2C like many of Paul's works=2C is a work of the imag= ination constructed out of streams of factual "things"--quotations=2C allu= sions=2C puns=2C "sound poetry" aspects=2C and the conveyance of visions of= the imagination via the sturdy=20 poem's "machine made out of words" (WCW).=20 I hope perhaps to have interested you into at least taking a look at Paul's= works=2C as well as Coolidge's extraordinary Smithsonian Decompositions-- > Date: Fri=2C 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 > From: sherwood@IUP.EDU > Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English=2C especially > book-length collections that might be described as documentary or > social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal > moment=2C be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and > refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are > somewhat flexible=3B I'll list some of the titles I've already come up > with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd > welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family > resemblance to these: >=20 > Charles Reznikoff=2C _Testimony_ > Muriel Rukeyser=2C _US 1_ > Kamau Brathwaite=2C _Middle Passages_ > Rosemarie Waldrop=2C _A Key Into the Language of America_ > Mark Nowak=2C _Coal Mountain Elementary_ > Allen Ginsberg=2C _Kaddish_ > David Antin=2C _Code of Flag Behavior_ > WC Williams=2C _Paterson_ > Charles Olson=2C _Maximus_ > Melvin Tolson=2C _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ > Susan Howe=2C _Singularities_ > Lorine Niedecker=2C "North Central" > Jerome Rothenberg=2C "14 Stations" >=20 > Thanks for any help. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your = inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:51:13 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 CS Giscombe -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:49:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Loretta Clodfelter Subject: New Issue of There Is Now Online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The most recent issue of There is now up at http://www.therejournal.com. Check out new work from Dean Brink, Jeff Crouch, Lara Durback, Melissa Eleftherion, Mark Stephen Finein, Crag Hill, Carrie Hunter, erica lewis, Anne Elezabeth Pluto, Francis Raven, Christopher Rizzo, Sam Schild, Jennifer Styperk, and Nicolette Westfall. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:54:15 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Okay, let's form a poetry collective: Lesbians and Non-lesbians Who Don't Want To Be Fucked By Billy Collins. Nana Zabic wrote: > CA et co., > > Billy Collins is more on the periphery of my world, a name whose bad > poems often appear in poetry textbooks I peruse to decide what to use > when I teach. I used to listen to NPR as white noise, but then I > couldn't stand it even as that, so I stopped listening quite a while > ago, and I didn't hear that interview. But based on what I know, I > wanna put it out there that non-lesbians also don't want to be fucked > by Billi Collins. Yuuuuck. > > CA, I think the best revenge is for you to write that poem "Undressing > Billy Collins" if you can, but I understand if you're too repulsed. > > Snezana > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > >> He wrote this poem a loong time ago. I've got a parody of it in my >> unpublished chap of poems I hate turned into love poems. I've got one in >> there for Marvin Bell's Emily Dickinson poem, too. >> >> There's an ENTIRE anthology of questionable Emily Dickinson poems. >> >> Janet Holmes MS OF MY KIN is pretty nice, tho. >> >> >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 19:12:32 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Beautifully put, David, I was also thinking of Paul's work in this context.= Thanks for taking the patient time to put this up!=20 Stephen Vincent --- On Fri, 7/9/10, David-Baptiste Chirot wrote: From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, July 9, 2010, 1:13 PM Dear Kenneth-- In the tradition of his great grandfather Herman Melville, Paul Metcalf com= bined documentary materials with=A0 fiction (as Melville does in Moby Dick)= --in his great collage book Genoa: A Telling of Wonders, which is a novel i= nterspersed with writings of Melville's and the Dairies of Columbus.=A0 Met= calf then went further, creating works which are completely made of others'= writing, arranged as both historical/geological/floarl/fauna documentary m= aterials arranged with a brilliant ear, creating music out of documentary (= non-literary often) texts--his masterpiece in this vein is APALACHE--not a = word of it being Paul's, yet at the same time, by way of his eye, ears, han= ds, tongue making the materials both intensely personal and and opening the= m outwards as though they have arisen from the ground itself.=A0 (Paul live= d for some time on Quarry Road, very appropriately, as Susan Howe once poin= ted out--Paul had a great influence/effect on Howe's writings, as he himself had made use of Olson's works--minus the misogyny.) Other works by= Paul treat the landscape, the shifting of the earth's tectonic plates in r= elation with migraines and a trip on route I-57, through Illinois, investig= ating the history and landscape of the region a he celebrates being"I-57" (= he literally had just become "I-57" as in--Paul Metcalf, 57 years old.) Sev= eral others of Paul's works combine documentary=A0 materials with a kind of= theatrical performance, a staging of historical events and personages in a= n imagined and associate theater --as in BOTH, a book which combines the li= ves & personages of John Wilkes Booth & Edgar Allan Poe (Booth/Poe yielding= the "both" of the tile.)=A0 The performance and theatre aspect of the book= , (Paul also wrote plays and performed in a few)-- of course, has as cathar= tic event the famous night in Ford's theater, in which Booth plays the role= of his life & assassinates President Lincoln.=20 Place also plays a great role, is a great theme in Metcalf's works--as in A= palache & I-57--and in others works such as Huscaran, regarding he Indians = of Peru, and The Wonderful White Whale of Kansas, which combines the life a= nd works of Franck Baum author of the Oz Books, with Moby Dick into a study= of the meaning of home.=A0 Waters of Potomac, like Apache is the "telling = of --historical/geological/botanical etc--of wonders of that region, told, = like Apalache via the poetic arrangement of documentary materials.=A0 In Zi= p Odes, small poems are composed for each state in the Union by using place= s names in the different Zip Code areas of rhe country. Many other works co= mbines geographical an historical materials linking race tracks in North Ca= rolinia with sites and histories in South America-- Though Metcal's works are in prose, it is a prose which traverses many modu= lations of the prose poem, making use of the lyrical impulse, the "voices" = of history as in Pound's and WCW's works, documentary drawing on=A0 popular= culture and contemporary historical events as John Dos Passos did in the U= SA trilogy, and the grandeur a form of epic in APALACHE.=A0 Though the form= is in physical appearance prose or prose poem, the underlying structuring = of the works is via the ear, via the poetic impulses and rhythms which run = through the flow of time, history, ge0ology, the lives of people, places, t= hings, animals, insects, plants-- Often the poetry of Metcalf's most astonishing passages attains the conditi= on of music-Paul was a great admirer of another user of documentary materia= ls, composer Charles Ives.=20 Coffee House, fortunately while Paul was stil alive--published a magnificen= t three volume Collected Works by Paul, which includes also his theatrical = pieces and essays.=20 Asked at one point about his "collage" style of poetic/documentary construc= tion, Paul jokingly called it "Totem Paul"--a vertical construction of the = materials in space and time.=20 In another joking vein, as though seeing a cockeyed reflection of his own m= ixture of the documentary and other genres/media, Paul once wrote to me tha= t a collage in Missouri was offering a course in the "South Sea Island Work= s of Herman Melville and the Hwiian films of Elvis Presley." Paul was greatly admired by poets, more so than by prose writers. Besides S= usan Howe, Robert Creeley was a great admirer of his works, s was Clark Coo= lidge, among many others. For roughly a decade Paul and his wife Nancy live= d in close proximity to Black Mountain College and often attended events th= ere as well as developing friendships with many of the poets and artists.= =20 Paul first met Charles Olson when the latter was traveling about New Englan= d & New York, in search of the scattered volumes of Melville's library--wit= h an eye towards assebling as many of the volumes as possible for the liter= ary treasures they contained by way of Melville's Marginalia. 12-14 years o= ld at the time, the much older Olson appeared to Paul as yet another one of= the stream of Melville fans and obssssed fanatics, though far larger, and = far more intensely essaying not only to collect information, but to become,= as much as possible, a member of the Melville/Metcalf family line.=A0 For = example, a vivid memory of Paul's was watching the gigatically framed Olson= trying to hide behind bushes as he followed Melville's daughter down the s= treet, trying to imitate her wlk, as though=A0 a "magical" way of "walking = the walk" or "faking it until you make it" would transform him into an actu= al "embodiment" of the Melville "line." I can't recommend Paul's work to you highly enough, with the understanding,= however, that he may not be techncally/formally speaking, conventionally "= poet enough" to "qualify." As Prose poetry, perhaps Paul's work might quali= fy-- Another work which is similar in some ways to Paul's is the brilliant Smith= sonian Decompositions by Clark Coolidge.=A0=A0=A0I would highly recommend t= his work, also--as Coolidge weaves a poetic "narrative" od a sort by combin= ing quotes from interviews with Jean-Luc Godard, historical, geological tex= ts, quotations from various fictional/poetical works linked by both associa= tive trains of thought and the poetry of pure sound (as does Paul). Smithso= nian Decompositions, like many of Paul's works, is a work of the imaginatio= n constructed out of=A0 streams of factual "things"--quotations, allusions,= puns, "sound poetry" aspects, and the conveyance of visions of the imagina= tion via the sturdy=20 poem's "machine made out of words" (WCW).=20 I hope perhaps to have interested you into at least taking a look at Paul's= works, as well as Coolidge's extraordinary Smithsonian Decompositions-- > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 > From: sherwood@IUP.EDU > Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English, especially > book-length collections that might be described as documentary or > social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal > moment, be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and > refashion documents and found texts.=A0 The definition and scope are > somewhat flexible; I'll list some of the titles I've already come up > with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights.=A0 I'd > welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family > resemblance to these: >=20 > Charles Reznikoff, _Testimony_ > Muriel Rukeyser, _US 1_ > Kamau Brathwaite, _Middle Passages_ > Rosemarie Waldrop, _A Key Into the Language of America_ > Mark Nowak, _Coal Mountain Elementary_ > Allen Ginsberg, _Kaddish_ > David Antin, _Code of Flag Behavior_ > WC Williams, _Paterson_ > Charles Olson, _Maximus_ > Melvin Tolson, _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ > Susan Howe, _Singularities_ > Lorine Niedecker, "North Central" > Jerome Rothenberg, "14 Stations" >=20 > Thanks for any help. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your = inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 21:53:55 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haniel Long's "Pittsburgh Memoranda" is worth a glance. Jeffrey > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 > From: sherwood@IUP.EDU > Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English, especially > book-length collections that might be described as documentary or > social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal > moment, be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and > refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are > somewhat flexible; I'll list some of the titles I've already come up > with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd > welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family > resemblance to these: > > Charles Reznikoff, _Testimony_ > Muriel Rukeyser, _US 1_ > Kamau Brathwaite, _Middle Passages_ > Rosemarie Waldrop, _A Key Into the Language of America_ > Mark Nowak, _Coal Mountain Elementary_ > Allen Ginsberg, _Kaddish_ > David Antin, _Code of Flag Behavior_ > WC Williams, _Paterson_ > Charles Olson, _Maximus_ > Melvin Tolson, _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ > Susan Howe, _Singularities_ > Lorine Niedecker, "North Central" > Jerome Rothenberg, "14 Stations" > > Thanks for any help. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 22:55:48 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Crane's Bill Books Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To be fair, you could read the poem as saying that once you've stripped away the frills and laces generations of biographers have forced on her, what's left are Dickinson's words. They ARE the details of her life, as Howe writes, because it was a life lived in language. The problem is, Collins isn't committed or crafty enough to pull it off; he settles for elaborating a metaphor in that ernest English Professor fashion, because that's what he thinks poetry is. A comparison with Jimenez's "First she came to me naked" might be interesting. Jeffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "CA Conrad" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 2:25 PM Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... > Maria, Gloria, Angela, Catherine, YES, thank you! SOLIDARITY WITH > EMILY! (Catherine I'd love to see your poem!) And I actually had no > idea that his poem was old. He's such a drag. > > John, the thing I try to make clear in my post is that it's VERY > IMPORTANT information to Collins. > > Hearing him talk with Terry Gross completely grossed me out. First, > sticking with the issue at hand, in his preface to reading his poem he > is literally saying that THAT poem puts to rest the argument of her > sexuality. As though all she needed was ONE NIGHT with Billy > Zoom-Zoom Collins and she would be off women! His language suggests > he is an antidote to an illness, or something. But he's clearly > masturbated thinking about bringing Emily Dickinson to her senses. I > VOMIT AGAIN FOR HER! And WHY didn't Terry Gross confront him???? I > don't get it. What a lousy form for an interview! TELL HIM HE'S A > JOKE! For crying out loud someone has to! > > The OTHER crime is how he discusses her poems. Simple this, and > simple that. She's so simple. He talks as if she GOT LUCKY a lot > when writing, or something. He didn't even allow her the surrealism > in her poems, linking that to a regional view of the world. WHO > INVITED HIM TO WRITE THIS INTRODUCTION TO HER NEW COLLECTION? It's > horrible that it's him! They should have invited Susan Howe to write > an introduction and edit the collection. > > Abhorrent man that Billy Phil Collins! And his poems stink! > > CAConrad > > poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com > > TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com > > MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: > http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > > PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 00:34:34 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave=2C The correct title of the Coolidge work that you speak of is Smithsonian Dep= ositions / Subject to a Film. All Best=2C Mark DuCharme > Date: Fri=2C 9 Jul 2010 15:13:22 -0500 > From: davidbchirot@HOTMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Dear Kenneth-- >=20 > In the tradition of his great grandfather Herman Melville=2C Paul Metcalf= combined documentary materials with fiction (as Melville does in Moby Dic= k)--in his great collage book Genoa: A Telling of Wonders=2C which is a nov= el interspersed with writings of Melville's and the Dairies of Columbus. M= etcalf then went further=2C creating works which are completely made of oth= ers' writing=2C arranged as both historical/geological/floarl/fauna documen= tary materials arranged with a brilliant ear=2C creating music out of docum= entary (non-literary often) texts--his masterpiece in this vein is APALACHE= --not a word of it being Paul's=2C yet at the same time=2C by way of his ey= e=2C ears=2C hands=2C tongue making the materials both intensely personal a= nd and opening them outwards as though they have arisen from the ground its= elf. (Paul lived for some time on Quarry Road=2C very appropriately=2C as = Susan Howe once pointed out--Paul had a great influence/effect on Howe's wr= itings=2C as he himself had made use of Olson's works--minus the misogyny.)= Other works by Paul treat the landscape=2C the shifting of the earth's tec= tonic plates in relation with migraines and a trip on route I-57=2C through= Illinois=2C investigating the history and landscape of the region a he cel= ebrates being"I-57" (he literally had just become "I-57" as in--Paul Metcal= f=2C 57 years old.) Several others of Paul's works combine documentary mat= erials with a kind of theatrical performance=2C a staging of historical eve= nts and personages in an imagined and associate theater --as in BOTH=2C a b= ook which combines the lives & personages of John Wilkes Booth & Edgar Alla= n Poe (Booth/Poe yielding the "both" of the tile.) The performance and the= atre aspect of the book=2C (Paul also wrote plays and performed in a few)--= of course=2C has as cathartic event the famous night in Ford's theater=2C = in which Booth plays the role of his life & assassinates President Lincoln.= =20 > Place also plays a great role=2C is a great theme in Metcalf's works--as = in Apalache & I-57--and in others works such as Huscaran=2C regarding he In= dians of Peru=2C and The Wonderful White Whale of Kansas=2C which combines = the life and works of Franck Baum author of the Oz Books=2C with Moby Dick = into a study of the meaning of home. Waters of Potomac=2C like Apache is t= he "telling of --historical/geological/botanical etc--of wonders of that re= gion=2C told=2C like Apalache via the poetic arrangement of documentary mat= erials. In Zip Odes=2C small poems are composed for each state in the Unio= n by using places names in the different Zip Code areas of rhe country. Man= y other works combines geographical an historical materials linking race tr= acks in North Carolinia with sites and histories in South America-- >=20 > Though Metcal's works are in prose=2C it is a prose which traverses many = modulations of the prose poem=2C making use of the lyrical impulse=2C the "= voices" of history as in Pound's and WCW's works=2C documentary drawing on = popular culture and contemporary historical events as John Dos Passos did = in the USA trilogy=2C and the grandeur a form of epic in APALACHE. Though = the form is in physical appearance prose or prose poem=2C the underlying st= ructuring of the works is via the ear=2C via the poetic impulses and rhythm= s which run through the flow of time=2C history=2C ge0ology=2C the lives of= people=2C places=2C things=2C animals=2C insects=2C plants-- >=20 > Often the poetry of Metcalf's most astonishing passages attains the condi= tion of music-Paul was a great admirer of another user of documentary mater= ials=2C composer Charles Ives.=20 >=20 > Coffee House=2C fortunately while Paul was stil alive--published a magnif= icent three volume Collected Works by Paul=2C which includes also his theat= rical pieces and essays.=20 >=20 > Asked at one point about his "collage" style of poetic/documentary constr= uction=2C Paul jokingly called it "Totem Paul"--a vertical construction of = the materials in space and time.=20 >=20 > In another joking vein=2C as though seeing a cockeyed reflection of his o= wn mixture of the documentary and other genres/media=2C Paul once wrote to = me that a collage in Missouri was offering a course in the "South Sea Islan= d Works of Herman Melville and the Hwiian films of Elvis Presley." >=20 > Paul was greatly admired by poets=2C more so than by prose writers. Besid= es Susan Howe=2C Robert Creeley was a great admirer of his works=2C s was C= lark Coolidge=2C among many others. For roughly a decade Paul and his wife = Nancy lived in close proximity to Black Mountain College and often attended= events there as well as developing friendships with many of the poets and = artists.=20 >=20 > Paul first met Charles Olson when the latter was traveling about New Engl= and & New York=2C in search of the scattered volumes of Melville's library-= -with an eye towards assebling as many of the volumes as possible for the l= iterary treasures they contained by way of Melville's Marginalia. 12-14 yea= rs old at the time=2C the much older Olson appeared to Paul as yet another = one of the stream of Melville fans and obssssed fanatics=2C though far larg= er=2C and far more intensely essaying not only to collect information=2C bu= t to become=2C as much as possible=2C a member of the Melville/Metcalf fami= ly line. For example=2C a vivid memory of Paul's was watching the gigatica= lly framed Olson trying to hide behind bushes as he followed Melville's dau= ghter down the street=2C trying to imitate her wlk=2C as though a "magical= " way of "walking the walk" or "faking it until you make it" would transfor= m him into an actual "embodiment" of the Melville "line." >=20 > I can't recommend Paul's work to you highly enough=2C with the understand= ing=2C however=2C that he may not be techncally/formally speaking=2C conven= tionally "poet enough" to "qualify." As Prose poetry=2C perhaps Paul's work= might qualify-- >=20 > Another work which is similar in some ways to Paul's is the brilliant Smi= thsonian Decompositions by Clark Coolidge. I would highly recommend this = work=2C also--as Coolidge weaves a poetic "narrative" od a sort by combinin= g quotes from interviews with Jean-Luc Godard=2C historical=2C geological t= exts=2C quotations from various fictional/poetical works linked by both ass= ociative trains of thought and the poetry of pure sound (as does Paul). Smi= thsonian Decompositions=2C like many of Paul's works=2C is a work of the im= agination constructed out of streams of factual "things"--quotations=2C al= lusions=2C puns=2C "sound poetry" aspects=2C and the conveyance of visions = of the imagination via the sturdy=20 > poem's "machine made out of words" (WCW).=20 >=20 > I hope perhaps to have interested you into at least taking a look at Paul= 's works=2C as well as Coolidge's extraordinary Smithsonian Decompositions-= - >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > Date: Fri=2C 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 > > From: sherwood@IUP.EDU > > Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >=20 > > I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English=2C especially > > book-length collections that might be described as documentary or > > social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal > > moment=2C be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and > > refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are > > somewhat flexible=3B I'll list some of the titles I've already come up > > with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd > > welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family > > resemblance to these: > >=20 > > Charles Reznikoff=2C _Testimony_ > > Muriel Rukeyser=2C _US 1_ > > Kamau Brathwaite=2C _Middle Passages_ > > Rosemarie Waldrop=2C _A Key Into the Language of America_ > > Mark Nowak=2C _Coal Mountain Elementary_ > > Allen Ginsberg=2C _Kaddish_ > > David Antin=2C _Code of Flag Behavior_ > > WC Williams=2C _Paterson_ > > Charles Olson=2C _Maximus_ > > Melvin Tolson=2C _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ > > Susan Howe=2C _Singularities_ > > Lorine Niedecker=2C "North Central" > > Jerome Rothenberg=2C "14 Stations" > >=20 > > Thanks for any help. > >=20 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =20 > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from you= r inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:59:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Douglas Manson Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: <546053.77511.qm@web82604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 My favorite is Jackson Mac Low's Stanzas for Iris Lezak. Amazing. also John Cage's acrostics. On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 10:12 PM, Stephen Vincent wrote: > Beautifully put, David, I was also thinking of Paul's work in this context. > Thanks for taking the patient time to put this up! > > Stephen Vincent > > --- On Fri, 7/9/10, David-Baptiste Chirot > wrote: > > From: David-Baptiste Chirot > Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Friday, July 9, 2010, 1:13 PM > > Dear Kenneth-- > > In the tradition of his great grandfather Herman Melville, Paul Metcalf > combined documentary materials with fiction (as Melville does in Moby > Dick)--in his great collage book Genoa: A Telling of Wonders, which is a > novel interspersed with writings of Melville's and the Dairies of Columbus. > Metcalf then went further, creating works which are completely made of > others' writing, arranged as both historical/geological/floarl/fauna > documentary materials arranged with a brilliant ear, creating music out of > documentary (non-literary often) texts--his masterpiece in this vein is > APALACHE--not a word of it being Paul's, yet at the same time, by way of his > eye, ears, hands, tongue making the materials both intensely personal and > and opening them outwards as though they have arisen from the ground > itself. (Paul lived for some time on Quarry Road, very appropriately, as > Susan Howe once pointed out--Paul had a great influence/effect on Howe's > writings, as he > himself had made use of Olson's works--minus the misogyny.) Other works by > Paul treat the landscape, the shifting of the earth's tectonic plates in > relation with migraines and a trip on route I-57, through Illinois, > investigating the history and landscape of the region a he celebrates > being"I-57" (he literally had just become "I-57" as in--Paul Metcalf, 57 > years old.) Several others of Paul's works combine documentary materials > with a kind of theatrical performance, a staging of historical events and > personages in an imagined and associate theater --as in BOTH, a book which > combines the lives & personages of John Wilkes Booth & Edgar Allan Poe > (Booth/Poe yielding the "both" of the tile.) The performance and theatre > aspect of the book, (Paul also wrote plays and performed in a few)-- of > course, has as cathartic event the famous night in Ford's theater, in which > Booth plays the role of his life & assassinates President Lincoln. > Place also plays a great role, is a great theme in Metcalf's works--as in > Apalache & I-57--and in others works such as Huscaran, regarding he Indians > of Peru, and The Wonderful White Whale of Kansas, which combines the life > and works of Franck Baum author of the Oz Books, with Moby Dick into a study > of the meaning of home. Waters of Potomac, like Apache is the "telling of > --historical/geological/botanical etc--of wonders of that region, told, like > Apalache via the poetic arrangement of documentary materials. In Zip Odes, > small poems are composed for each state in the Union by using places names > in the different Zip Code areas of rhe country. Many other works combines > geographical an historical materials linking race tracks in North Carolinia > with sites and histories in South America-- > > Though Metcal's works are in prose, it is a prose which traverses many > modulations of the prose poem, making use of the lyrical impulse, the > "voices" of history as in Pound's and WCW's works, documentary drawing on > popular culture and contemporary historical events as John Dos Passos did in > the USA trilogy, and the grandeur a form of epic in APALACHE. Though the > form is in physical appearance prose or prose poem, the underlying > structuring of the works is via the ear, via the poetic impulses and rhythms > which run through the flow of time, history, ge0ology, the lives of people, > places, things, animals, insects, plants-- > > Often the poetry of Metcalf's most astonishing passages attains the > condition of music-Paul was a great admirer of another user of documentary > materials, composer Charles Ives. > > Coffee House, fortunately while Paul was stil alive--published a > magnificent three volume Collected Works by Paul, which includes also his > theatrical pieces and essays. > > Asked at one point about his "collage" style of poetic/documentary > construction, Paul jokingly called it "Totem Paul"--a vertical construction > of the materials in space and time. > > In another joking vein, as though seeing a cockeyed reflection of his own > mixture of the documentary and other genres/media, Paul once wrote to me > that a collage in Missouri was offering a course in the "South Sea Island > Works of Herman Melville and the Hwiian films of Elvis Presley." > > Paul was greatly admired by poets, more so than by prose writers. Besides > Susan Howe, Robert Creeley was a great admirer of his works, s was Clark > Coolidge, among many others. For roughly a decade Paul and his wife Nancy > lived in close proximity to Black Mountain College and often attended events > there as well as developing friendships with many of the poets and artists. > > Paul first met Charles Olson when the latter was traveling about New > England & New York, in search of the scattered volumes of Melville's > library--with an eye towards assebling as many of the volumes as possible > for the literary treasures they contained by way of Melville's Marginalia. > 12-14 years old at the time, the much older Olson appeared to Paul as yet > another one of the stream of Melville fans and obssssed fanatics, though far > larger, and far more intensely essaying not only to collect information, but > to become, as much as possible, a member of the Melville/Metcalf family > line. For example, a vivid memory of Paul's was watching the gigatically > framed Olson trying to hide behind bushes as he followed Melville's daughter > down the street, trying to imitate her wlk, as though a "magical" way of > "walking the walk" or "faking it until you make it" would transform him into > an actual "embodiment" of the Melville "line." > > I can't recommend Paul's work to you highly enough, with the understanding, > however, that he may not be techncally/formally speaking, conventionally > "poet enough" to "qualify." As Prose poetry, perhaps Paul's work might > qualify-- > > Another work which is similar in some ways to Paul's is the brilliant > Smithsonian Decompositions by Clark Coolidge. I would highly recommend > this work, also--as Coolidge weaves a poetic "narrative" od a sort by > combining quotes from interviews with Jean-Luc Godard, historical, > geological texts, quotations from various fictional/poetical works linked by > both associative trains of thought and the poetry of pure sound (as does > Paul). Smithsonian Decompositions, like many of Paul's works, is a work of > the imagination constructed out of streams of factual "things"--quotations, > allusions, puns, "sound poetry" aspects, and the conveyance of visions of > the imagination via the sturdy > poem's "machine made out of words" (WCW). > > I hope perhaps to have interested you into at least taking a look at Paul's > works, as well as Coolidge's extraordinary Smithsonian Decompositions-- > > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 > > From: sherwood@IUP.EDU > > Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English, especially > > book-length collections that might be described as documentary or > > social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal > > moment, be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and > > refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are > > somewhat flexible; I'll list some of the titles I've already come up > > with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd > > welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family > > resemblance to these: > > > > Charles Reznikoff, _Testimony_ > > Muriel Rukeyser, _US 1_ > > Kamau Brathwaite, _Middle Passages_ > > Rosemarie Waldrop, _A Key Into the Language of America_ > > Mark Nowak, _Coal Mountain Elementary_ > > Allen Ginsberg, _Kaddish_ > > David Antin, _Code of Flag Behavior_ > > WC Williams, _Paterson_ > > Charles Olson, _Maximus_ > > Melvin Tolson, _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ > > Susan Howe, _Singularities_ > > Lorine Niedecker, "North Central" > > Jerome Rothenberg, "14 Stations" > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your > inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:24:09 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Mark Twain's Unexpurgated Autobio: Dead for a Century, Twain Says What He Meant--NY Times Book Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable BOOKS=20 =20 | July 10=2C 2010 Dead for a Century=2C Twain Says What He Meant By LARRY ROHTER A very different and more pointedly political Mark Twain emerges in his new= unexpurgated autobiography. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/books/10twain.html?emc=3Deta1 =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 12:34:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Avaaz: Save Sakineh In-Reply-To: <93.53.29128.712F73C4@avaaz-mta> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Avaaz.org - The World in Action Dear Friends=2C Yesterday an Iranian woman=2C Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani=2C was saved by gl= obal protests from being stoned to death. But she may still be hanged -- and=2C meanwhile=2C execution by stoning con= tinues. Right now fifteen more people are on death row awaiting stoning in = which victims are buried up to their necks in the ground and then large roc= ks are thrown at their heads. The partial reprieve of Sakineh=2C triggered by the call from her children = for international pressure to save her life=2C has shown that if enough of = us come together and voice our horror=2C we may be able to save her life=2C= and stop stoning once and for all. Sign the urgent petition now and send i= t onto everyone you know -- let's end this cruel slaughter NOW! http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_stoning/?vl Sakineh was convicted of adultery=2C like all the other 12 women and one of= the men awaiting stoning. But her children and lawyer say she is innocent = and that she did not get a fair trial -- they state her confession was forc= ed from her and=2C speaking only Azerbaijani=2C she did not understand what= was being asked of her in court. Despite Iran's signing of a UN convention that requires the death penalty o= nly be used for the "most serious crimes" and despite the Iranian Parliamen= t passing a law banning stoning last year=2C stoning for adultery continue= s. Sakineh's lawyer says the Iranian government "is afraid of Iranian public r= eaction and international attention" to the stoning cases. And after Turke= y and Britain's Foreign Ministers spoke out against Sakineh's sentence=2C i= t was suspended. Sakineh's brave children are leading the international campaign to save the= ir mother and stop stoning. Massive international condemnation now could fi= nally stop this sickening punishment. Let's join together today across the = world to end this brutality. Sign the petition to save Sakineh and end ston= ing here: http://www.avaaz.org/en/stop_stoning/?vl In hope and determination=2C Alice=2C David=2C Milena=2C Ben and the whole Avaaz team SOURCES: Iranians still facing death by stoning despite 'reprieve'=2C The Guardian:= =20 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/08/iran-death-stoning-adultery Britain condemns planned Iran stoning as 'medieval'=2C AFP: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hjVdkvkzicGeInqw2R10rCKr= qs3A =20 Support the Avaaz community! We're entirely funded by donations and receive= no money from governments or corporations. Our dedicated team ensures even= the smallest contributions go a long way -- donate here. Avaaz.org is a 5.5-million-person global campaign network that works to ens= ure that the views and values of the world's people shape global decision-m= aking. ("Avaaz" means "voice" or "song" in many languages.) Avaaz members l= ive in every nation of the world=3B our team is spread across 13 countries = on 4 continents and operates in 14 languages. Learn about some of Avaaz's b= iggest campaigns here=2C or follow us on Facebook or Twitter. This message was sent to davidbchirot@hotmail.com. To change your email add= ress=2C language=2C or other information=2C click here. Want to leave this = list? Click here to unsubscribe. To contact Avaaz=2C please do not reply to this email. Instead=2C write to = us at www.avaaz.org/en/contact or call us at +1-888-922-8229 (US). = =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H= otmail.=20 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmulticalendar&ocid=3D= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 08:55:11 +1200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lisa Samuels Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: <4C37C4B7.6020001@umn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Totally there agreeing - but I would avoid adding more glamor to Collins's economic clout by forming anything with his name in it. Especially my mouth. Therefore othering the story by writing/speaking differently is my preference. with loves, Lisa On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Maria Damon wrote: > Okay, let's form a poetry collective: Lesbians and Non-lesbians Who Don't > Want To Be Fucked By Billy Collins. > > Nana Zabic wrote: >> >> CA et co., >> >> Billy Collins is more on the periphery of my world, a name whose bad >> poems often appear in poetry textbooks I peruse to decide what to use >> when I teach. I used to listen to NPR as white noise, but then I >> couldn't stand it even as that, so I stopped listening quite a while >> ago, and I didn't hear that interview. But based on what I know, I >> wanna put it out there that non-lesbians also don't want to be fucked >> by Billi Collins. Yuuuuck. >> >> CA, I think the best revenge is for you to write that poem "Undressing >> Billy Collins" if you can, but I understand if you're too repulsed. >> >> Snezana >> >> On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:44 PM, Catherine Daly >> wrote: >> >>> >>> He wrote this poem a loong time ago. =A0I've got a parody of it in my >>> unpublished chap of poems I hate turned into love poems. =A0I've got on= e in >>> there for Marvin Bell's Emily Dickinson poem, too. >>> >>> There's an ENTIRE anthology of questionable Emily Dickinson poems. >>> >>> Janet Holmes MS OF MY KIN is pretty nice, tho. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> All best, >>> Catherine Daly >>> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.htm= l >>> >>> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:06:49 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: carol dorf Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: <546053.77511.qm@web82604.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Nellie Wong "Dreams in Harrison Railroad Park" ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:10:19 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: carol dorf Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Marillyn Nelson "A Wreath for Emmett Till" Perhaps less specific to what you are looking for but Rita Dove "Thomas and Belulah" ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:04:51 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pam Brown Subject: Re: : Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Kenneth, Laurie Duggan - The Ash Range - first published by University of Queensland Press, 2nd Edition Shearsman Books, 2005 http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2005/duggan_ash.html Best wishes, Pam Brown __________________________________________________ Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 From: Kenneth Sherwood Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English, especially book-length collections that might be described as documentary or social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal moment, be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are somewhat flexible; I'll list some of the titles I've already come up with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family resemblance to these: Charles Reznikoff, _Testimony_ Muriel Rukeyser, _US 1_ Kamau Brathwaite, _Middle Passages_ Rosemarie Waldrop, _A Key Into the Language of America_ Mark Nowak, _Coal Mountain Elementary_ Allen Ginsberg, _Kaddish_ David Antin, _Code of Flag Behavior_ WC Williams, _Paterson_ Charles Olson, _Maximus_ Melvin Tolson, _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ Susan Howe, _Singularities_ Lorine Niedecker, "North Central" Jerome Rothenberg, "14 Stations" Thanks for any help. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.ht ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 14:13:04 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Justin Katko Subject: Contranight Escha Black In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable English poet Josh Stanley's fourth book, *Contranight Escha Black*, is now out from Critical Documents. The title sequence was lobbed off in one goeti= c strike on the anniversary of the sepulchral evac; the thing itself just egregiously Black, with our 'cute Israeli / complicity' dripping from the platinum railroad ties I mean staples. SoundEye snug-lumberers will find it leaked discretely into their time-wallets; Greenwich meridian jumpers will find it catapulted indiscretely into their space-purses. In all cases, owners of the future past tense will find themselves five pounds or ten dollars less rich. Don't just buy one! They're nearly sold out! They aren't even paid for yet! >> http://plantarchy.us/contranight.html My sword thou shalt put my palms around your sides split across volcanic cash eruption it is called capitalism in crisis is fucking stupid kill them other simplifiers pronounce this return of Marx but racists come back too I=92m for all resistance when I am most unafraid the good me in the lime tree flower like my prison fire my infinite blood time my still wanting you my angry angelic love world is also glacier as furious burying And that's the kind of fucking stupid ass go kill us all and bring us back shit you can't never take back. This latest artefact of the poetic mind is so indistinctly a farewell to England that the reader who chooses to regard it as an exclusively American edition may as well omit it and turn at once to page 999. The recent poem 'Relevant to the Kompany' is also appended to the sequence. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:12:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Wilcox Subject: Third Thursday Poetry Night, July 15: Jason Crane Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 the Poetry Motel Foundation presents =20 Third Thursday Poetry Night =20 at the Social Justice Center 33 Central Ave., Albany, NY =20 Thursday, July 15 7:00 sign up; 7:30 start =20 Featured Poet: Jason Crane =20 -- with an open mic for community poets before & after the feature: = $3.00 donation, suggested; more if you got it, less if you can=92t. =20 Your saxy host: Dan Wilcox. =20 Jason Crane was born in Lenox, Massachusetts. He=92s a jazz broadcaster = and writer. He=92s a husband and father. And he rides a bicycle. Jason hosts the online jazz interview show The Jazz Session = (http://thejazzsession.com), featuring in-depth interviews with jazz = musicians from around the world. Jason=92s first collection of poems, =93Unexpected Sunlight,=94 was = recently published by FootHills Publishing. His work has been published = in =93Blue Collar Review=94 and =93qarrtsiluni.=94 You can read Jason's = writing at http://jasoncrane.org. =20 (by Jason Crane) * Desperate young man with haggard face and flapping pants -- =20 as best they can* * under the streetlights the shadows are =20 wrapping you about --* * in your fatigue and isolation, in all =20 the beauty of your * * commonplace against the incestuous =20 and leaning stars --* * *= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:35:49 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cleary Subject: Re: lesbians don't want... In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I think this is it exactly. I haven't listened to the interview, but it seems as if Gross wanted some spicy gossip about Dickinson, not information that would expand understanding of her work. At some point, I hope, we will evolve past the point of thinking of someone's sexuality as a juicy tidbit to snicker about. John On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:10 PM, a. tsai wrote: > John: > > I think this is a very good question. For myself, I am more interested > in gender/sexual politics only as it exists in someone's WORK as one > lens of examination of poetry (or literature) rather than as mere > fascination/autobiography. But, I would further say that when it comes > to programs that are meant for wide distribution, those questions are > asked because the answers themselves are talked about widely and the > mainstream public loves scandal and intrigue, not because it's a > worthy question for discussion. > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:08 AM, John Cleary wrote: > > Could someone explain whether or not Emily Dickinson's sexual preference > > should matter in an understanding and appreciation of her work? Should I > > care, does it inform me somehow, to know if a writer is gay or not? > > > > I am not being snarky, I am legitimately wondering. > > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2010 at 10:08 PM, CA Conrad wrote: > > > >> ...to be fucked by Billy Collins! > >> > >> SOMEONE PLEASE TELL HIM THIS! > >> > >> A dear friend of mine who knows how much I LOVE the poetry of Emily > >> Dickinson called me today to tell me that Terry Gross was interviewing > >> someone about Dickinson's poems. So I tuned into NPR and instantly > >> cringed at the voice of Billy Collins (the Phil Collins of poetry!)! > >> > >> What ANGERED me most was when they were discussing her possible sexual > >> preference(s). And he said, HE ACTUALLY SAID, that whether she was a > >> lesbian or not, HE was going to put to rest this argument with HIS > >> poem. Which he then read. It's called UNDRESSING EMILY DICKINSON, > >> and it's about wanting to FUCK HER, and how she sighs and makes little > >> sounds in between his removing various items of clothing from her > >> body. > >> > >> Whether she was a lesbian or not, it's pretty clear to me that THAT > >> very issue turned him on enough to write his sexual fantasy of putting > >> his poet laureate prick inside her! > >> > >> I VOMIT > >> I VOMIT FOR YOU EMILY > >> > >> Not only that, if you listen to this show PLEASE NOTE how he makes > >> such a big deal about how irrelevant her biography is. BUT THEN GOES > >> AHEAD AND SHOWS HOW IMPORTANT HER BIOGRAPHY ACTUALLY IS TO HIM THAT HE > >> WANTS TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT (SO TO SPEAK!)! > >> > >> Has this dude NEVER heard of Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON by the > >> way? Because his excessively reductive view of her poems makes me > >> think he needs to read Howe. > >> > >> When I win the lottery I'm buying Susan Howe's MY EMILY DICKINSON for > >> every single library in the world! And if they REFUSE TO TAKE IT, > >> I'll just put in on the shelf MYSELF! > >> > >> May Emily Dickinson's ghost exact REVENGE on Billy Collins! Dear > >> Emily, I'm writing a poem called UNDRESSING BILLY COLLINS, to see how > >> he likes gay sex! I'll let you know how it goes! > >> > >> CAConrad > >> > >> poetryisthecenterofmyworld: http://CAConrad.blogspot.com< > http://caconrad.blogspot.com/> > >> > >> TAROT READINGS: http://CAConradTAROT.blogspot.com< > http://caconradtarot.blogspot.com/> > >> > >> MY BATHTUB POETRY READING & other videos and MP3s: > >> http://CAConradMP3.blogspot.com > >> > >> PhillySound: new poetry: http://PhillySound.blogspot.com< > http://phillysound.blogspot.com/> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:48:14 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: New @ Rogue Embryo: Leslie Scalapino's Plural Time + Blue Tulip Tree Leaf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 New @ Rogue Embryo * Reading the Minds of Events: Leslie Scalapino's Plural Time (originally p= ublished in HOW2) (alert: long essay with probably too many footnotes, but = if you like that kind of thing, take some vitamins and go for it) http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/reading-the-minds-of-events-les= lie-scalapinos-plural-time/ * Blue Tulip Tree Leaf (photograph): The tulip tree is one of my favourite = trees that grows in Louisiana (and a large portion of North America as well= ). The exquisite flowers resemble tulips. Something about the light or wate= r made the leaf appear bluish. The un-bayou-like sandy creek in Mississippi= is named "Bayou LaTerre"). http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/blue-tulip-tree-leaf-bayou-late= rre/ Cheers! Camille Martin Sonnets: http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2010/martin.html Codes of Public Sleep : http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781897388112/codes-of-public-sleep.aspx =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:07:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Iris Law Subject: LANTERN REVIEW seeks bloggers. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Lantern Review: A Journal of Asian American Poetry* is looking for a handful of talented bloggers to add to its staff for next year. We seek strong writers with an interest in Asian American poetry and a knowledge of the contemporary literary scene. Positions available: Book Reviewers, Columnists, Interviewers, Event Reporters. Prior blogging experience is not necessary, though it is a plus, as is experience with social media. More details, including qualifications and requirements, are available on our blog, at the following url: http://lanternreview.com/blog/2010/07/07/lr-news-apply-to-blog-for-us/ Please apply via email (editors [at] lanternreview [dot] com) *by July 23rd*. * * * *Lantern Review: A Journal of Asian American Poetry *Iris A. Law, Editor Mia Ayumi Malhotra, Associate Editor www.lanternreview.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:34:27 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:50:36 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: O Cleveland! As Lebron Leaves, Harvey Pekar Goes on the "Big Sleep" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cult comic writer Harvey Pekar dead at 70 in Ohio July 12, 2010, 10:44 AM EST http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38206191/ns/today-today_books/?GT1=43001 CLEVELAND (AP) -- Comic-book writer Harvey Pekar, whose autobiographical comic book series "American Splendor" portrayed his life with bone-dry honesty and wit, was found dead at home early Monday, authorities said. He was 70. Officers were called to Pekar's suburban home by his wife about 1 a.m., Cleveland Heights police Capt. Michael Cannon said. His body was found between a bed and dresser. Pekar had been suffering from prostate cancer, asthma, high blood pressure and depression, according to Cannon. Pekar had gone to bed about 4:30 p.m. Sunday in good spirits, his wife told police. An autopsy was planned, said Powell Caesar, a spokesman for the Cuyahoga County coroner's office in Cleveland. He had no information on the cause of death. Pekar took a radically different track from the superhero-laden comics that had dominated the industry. He instead specialized in the lives of ordinary people, chronicling his life as a file clerk in Cleveland and his relationship with his third wife, Joyce Brabner. His 1994 graphic novel, "Our Cancer Year," detailed his battle with lymphoma. The dreary cover scene shows him sprawled beside his wife on a snowy curbside with shopping bags on the ground. "Harvey, forget about the groceries, honey. Let's get you inside first," she says. Pekar never drew himself but depended on collaborations with artists, most notably his friend R. Crumb, who helped illustrate the first issue of the ironically titled "American Splendor," published in 1976. It was made into an acclaimed 2003 filmstarring Paul Giamatti . The most recent "American Splendor" was released in 2008. Pekar's quirky commentary developed a following and his insights and humor were often a bit on the dark side. Lucy Shelton Caswell, curator of the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum at Ohio State University, said it was inaccurate to describe Pekar's work as "cult." "His work was accepted by the mainstream," Caswell said. "It was bought by public libraries and read widely." The cartoon library has all of Pekar's works in its collection, she said. "He will be remembered as an innovator who wrote stories about ordinary things that were then illustrated by some of the most notable cartoonists of the late 20th century," Caswell said. "People identified with what was writing about and the stories that these people were drawing because it was so ordinary." In 2003, the New York Film Critics Circle honored "American Splendor" as best first film for the directing-writing team of Shari Springer Berman and Robert Pulcini . Part feature and part documentary, with animated elements added, the film starred Giamatti as the disgruntled Pekar. Pekar, who was a repeat TV guest of David Letterman, told The Associated Press in a 1997 interview that he was determined to keep writing his "American Splendor" series. "There's no end in sight for me. I want to continue to do it," Pekar said. "It's a continuing autobiography, a life's work." ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:03:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Atlanta Poets Group this week MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   This Thursday night  at= =0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AThis Thursday night=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0Aat= the 7 Stages Theater=0A=0A1105 Euclid Ave.=0A=0ALittle Five PointsAtlanta,= Georgia =0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AThe Atlanta Poets Group=0A=0Awill perform a p= anoply of polyphonic and monophonic=0Apoetry=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A= =C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0Aalso appearing,=0A=0AKodac Harrison & other local p= oets=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A8:00 pm=0A=0AAdmission $5=0A= =0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0Abe there, or be mainstream=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2= =A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A--mark=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=E2=80=9CA poet laureate is a= =0Apretender, pseudo-poet, or phantom.=E2=80=9D=0A=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 --Alexander=0APope=0A= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 12:13:33 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Paul Nelson Subject: August Postry Postcard Project MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From Lana Ayers: Welcome to the August 2010 Postcard Poetry List! http://poetrypostcards.blogspot.com/ http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=17361938720&ref=ts http://www.concretewolf.com/august2010 to sign up for this year's project. Here's what's involved: Get yourself at least 31 postcards. These can be found at book stores, thrift shops, online, drug stores, antique shops, museums, gift shops. (You'll be amazed at how quickly you become a postcard addict.) On or about July 27th, write an original poem right on a postcard and mail it to the person on the list below your name. (If you are at the very bottom, send a card to the name at the top.) And please WRITE LEGIBLY! Starting on August 1st, ideally in response to a card YOU receive, keep writing a poem a day on a postcard and mailing it to successive folks on the list until you've sent out 31 postcards. Of course you can keep going and send as many as you like but we ask you to commit to at least 31 (a month's worth). What to write? Something that relates to your sense of "place" however you interpret that, something about how you relate to the postcard image, what you see out the window, what you're reading, using a phrase/topic/or image from a card that you got, a dream you had that morning, or an image from it, etc. Like "real" postcards, get to something of the "here and now" when you write. Do write original poems for the project. Taking old poems and using them is not what we have in mind. These cards are going to an eager audience of one, so there's no need to agonize. That's what's unique about this experience. Rather than submitting poems for possible rejection, you are sending your words to a ready-made and excited audience awaiting your poems in their mailboxes. Everyone loves getting postcards. And postcards with poems, all the better. Once you start receiving postcard poems in the mail, you'll be able to respond to the poems and imagery with postcard poems or your own. That will keep your poems fresh and flowing. Be sure to check postage for cards going abroad. The Postcard Graveyard is a very sad place. That's all there it to it. It's that fun and that easy. To check out what we've done before, visit the blog [where you'll also see we also have Perennial Poetry Postcard List of folks who try to write a postcard poem at least once a week regardless of receiving in order to keep connections flowing.], Paul Nelson's website or our Facebook group. To get started, click to register. Once you've registered, you just need to login to see the list of participants. Email postcardpoetry@yahoo.com if you have any questions. Paul E. Nelson SPLAB! C. City, WA 206.422.5002 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:16:32 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Godston Subject: World Listening Day / Passport to Texas radio series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, World Listening Day happens this Sunday, July 18. You are invited to participate! For more info, please visit http://www.worldlisteningproject.org/?p=667. Several weeks ago Cecilia Nasti, Executive Producer of the Passport to Texas radio series, interviewed me about World Listening Day. You can listen to that interview / episode of Passport to Texas by tuning in to one of these stations: http://passporttotexas.org/listen/. The podcast and transcription of the episode are available at http://passporttotexas.org/world-listening-day/ Cheers, Dan ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:34:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Vernon Frazer Subject: The SEx Queen of the Berlin Turnpike -- "Vernon Frazer's Greatest Hits" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii h= ttp://www.youtube.com/my_videos_edit?ns=3D1&video_id=3DzAmpdRiSIsk&next=3D= %2Fmy_videos =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 15:33:25 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: Mark Twain's Unexpurgated Autobio: Dead for a Century, Twain Says What He Meant--NY Times Book Review MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit harvey picar passed as well today On Sat, 10 Jul 2010 10:24:09 -0500 David-Baptiste Chirot writes: > BOOKS > > > | July 10, 2010 > > > > > > > > Dead for a Century, Twain Says What He Meant > > > > > > > > By LARRY ROHTER > > > > > A very different and more pointedly political Mark Twain emerges in > his new unexpurgated autobiography. > > http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/10/books/10twain.html?emc=eta1 > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 20:15:05 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: laura oliver Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please excuse me if these titles have already been mentioned in this thread= : =20 Ed Sanders' 1968 http://poetry.about.com/library/weekly/aa082697.htm and Strange Big Moon=2C The Japan and India Journals: 1960-1964 by Joanne Kyger -Laura > Date: Sat=2C 10 Jul 2010 17:10:19 -0800 > From: carol.dorf@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Marillyn Nelson "A Wreath for Emmett Till" >=20 > Perhaps less specific to what you are looking for but Rita Dove "Thomas a= nd > Belulah" >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H= otmail.=20 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmulticalendar&ocid=3D= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:21:11 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "(A PRACTICAL PRIMER)". Rest of header flushed. From: amy king Subject: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable “Th= WHAT WOULD WOOLF AND WHITMAN DO?=0A(A PRACTICAL PRIMER)=0A=0A=0A=E2=80=9CTh= is is the beauty of the new media. There is no way to control it.=E2=80=9D= =E2=80=93Srdja =0APopovic=0A=0A=0ACont -- =0Ahttp://amyking.wordpress.com/= 2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/=0A=0A=0A=0A = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:00:09 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Goodbye -- Transfer of the Stain Series! [& Popsickle Literary Festival, July 24 & 25] Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Before we tell you all about the next poetry extrava= Dear Stain-goers,=0A=0ABefore we tell you all about the next poetry extrava= ganza from Stain, we have an =0Aexciting announcement for you. As of 2011, = Stain of Poetry will be directed by =0Athree brilliant new curators: the po= ets STEVEN KARL, ERIKA MOYA, and CHRISTIE =0AANN REYNOLDS. The Stain of Poe= try founder Amy King & her co-director Ana =0ABo=C5=BEi=C4=8Devi=C4=87 =E2= =80=94 ie, we =E2=80=94 will bow out to focus on our new books and on editi= ng the =0Asoon-to-launch e-journal ESQUE.=0A=0A=0A=0AOur incoming trio of c= urators will introduce themselves to you at POPSICKLE: A =0AFESTIVAL OF LIT= ERARY ARTS on July 24 & 25, where they will host the Stain =0Aportion of th= e readings, as well as at regularly scheduled Stain readings =0Athroughout = the summer and fall. Don=E2=80=99t worry, we (Amy and Ana) will be around = =0Atill the close of year, so there will be plenty of opportunity to raise = glasses =0Aof sake lemonade together. We are so excited to welcome Steven, = Erika & Christie =0AAnn to Stain of Poetry!=0A=0A=0A=0AThe next Stain readi= ng will be part of POPSICKLE: A FESTIVAL OF LITERARY ARTS:=0A=0Ahttp://www.= facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=3D108175169234412=0A=0A=0A=0APOPSICKLE 2010 u= nites Brooklyn=E2=80=99s literary curators for a two-day festival of =0Area= dings, performances and screenings. The festival will take place on July 24= th =0Aand 25th, from 3-8 PM on Saturday July 24th & 1-5 PM on Sunday July 2= 5th.=0A=0APOPSICKLE will take place at Bushwick=E2=80=99s beloved MARKET HO= TEL at 1142 Myrtle Ave, =0ABrooklyn.=0A=0AReaders for the Festival include:= =0A=0ABEN FAMA, BRETT PRICE & DANI LEVENTHAL, CARTER EDWARDS, DAN MAGERS, E= DDIE =0AHOPELY, EMILY PETTIT, EVAN BURTON, GINA ABELKOP, JAMES COPELAND, JO= SHUA MEHIGAN, =0ALAUREN, RUSSELL, LEIGH STEIN, MARC NASDOR, MICHAEL BARRON,= NATALIE LYALIN, =0ANICOLE TRIGG, PAIGE TAGGART, TIMOTHY DONNELLY AND MORE.= =0A=0ACurated by the series organizers of the following: Body Actualized Co= ntrol, The =0ABushwick Reading Series, CROWD, POETRY Time at SPACE SPACE, S= TAIN, and =0ASUPERMACHINE.=0A=0AShow up on July 24th and 25 for Bushwick=E2= =80=99s first monster literary festival, and =0Avisithttp://www.facebook.co= m/l/c3ff5xqDTBno9JXYyBy5r_VYnTg;HTTP://POPSICKLEFESTIVAL.BLOGSPOT.COM/ for= =0A updates.=0A=0ACheers,=0A=0AAmy & Ana=0A********=0AJuice + http://amyki= ng.org=0A=0A********=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:10:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lou Rowan Subject: Golden Handcuffs Review 13 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Colleagues, GH13 at the distributors, and ready for subscriptions. Contributors: David Antin, Charles Baudelaire, Charles Bernstein, Matt Briggs, Joseph Donahue, Francesca Duranti, Ken Edwards, Bernard Hoepffner, Victor Hugo, A D Jameson, Leslie Kaplan, Jami Macarty, Susan Smith Nash, Toby Olson, Meredith Quartermain, Peter Quartermain, Jed Rasula, Joyce Ravid, Leonard Schwartz, Pierre Senges, Tyrone Williams, Augustus Young. It is distributed by Ingram and Ubiquity, so your bookseller or news- stand can order readily. We REALLY, REALLY need support. Subscriptions only $20/annum in the US. Checks to Golden Handcuffs Review (1825 NE 58th St, Seattle, WA 98105). Paypal available through: dominicaulisio@yahoo.com Onward! Lou Lou Rowan lourowan@mac.com www.lourowan.com 1825 NE 58th St. Seattle, WA 98105 206-948-2077 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:30:51 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Thomas savage Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists In-Reply-To: <20100712.143427.3552.57.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm really sorry to hear about this.=A0 Tuli has been a part of my life sin= ce I =0Afirst heard the Fugs live when I was in my teens.=A0 So the man who= jumped off the =0ABrooklyn Bridge but didn't die, according to Ginsberg's = great poem, has finally =0Apassed away.=A0 He had a long, good life and was= a joy to many poets and other =0Apeople both with his poems and his drawin= gs.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: steve dalachinsk= y =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, July = 12, 2010 5:04:27 AM=0ASubject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug t= uli kupferberg passed away =0Atoday at noon please pass on to your lists=0A= =0Agreat friend and poet writer anarchist fug=A0 tuli=A0 kupferberg passed = away=0Atoday at noon=0Aplease pass on to your lists=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Chec= k guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.ht= ml=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 13:33:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET In-Reply-To: <928611.32961.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit do alternative means of publishing and/or distributing the same old stuff constitute a revolution? ja http://vispo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "amy king" To: Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:21 PM Subject: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET “Th WHAT WOULD WOOLF AND WHITMAN DO? (A PRACTICAL PRIMER) “This is the beauty of the new media. There is no way to control it.” –Srdja Popovic Cont -- http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:06:44 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Taking an alternate route might be 'your own revolution,' as indicated by t= he =0Atitle. =0A=0AOr you really could just sit around waiting for the mar= ketplace to find you, =0Aever the undiscovered genius-in-wait. =0A=0AMust = we all stick to prescribed, 'sanctioned' publication methods? =0A =0A*****= ***=0AJuice - =0A+ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ travis-nichols/the-poetry= - =0Afeminaissance_b_607561.html =0A+ http://www.pw.org/content/ poets_take= _action_in_wake_of_ gulf_coast_disaster =0A+ http://poetry.about.com/b/ 20= 10/06/16/poems-for-the-gulf- of-mexico.htm=0A+ http://amyking.org=0A*******= *=0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Jim Andrews =0A=0Ado alternative means of publishing and/or distributing the same old = stuff =0Aconstitute a revolution?=0A=0Aja=0Ahttp://vispo.com=0A=0A----- Ori= ginal Message ----- From: "amy king" =0ATo: =0ASent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:21 PM=0ASubject: YOUR= OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET=0A=0AWHAT WOULD WOOLF AN= D WHITMAN DO?=0A(A PRACTICAL PRIMER)=0A=0A=0A=E2=80=9CThis is the beauty of= the new media. There is no way to control it.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93Srdja=0AP= opovic=0A=0A=0ACont -- =0Ahttp://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-= revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guid= elines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:19:01 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: at Tigress Books in Salem, OR on Thursday, July 15 at 5:30 PM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 =20 The Third Thursday Poets welcomes Nicholas Karavatos to Tigress Books in Sa= lem=2C Oregon on July 15 at 5:30pm. =20 NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is included in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass* (U= kiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review* (= University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Amendment Nine = published his first book titled *No Asylum* (Arcata=2C 2009). http://www.am= azon.com/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp =20 David Meltzer wrote on the back cover: =93Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of g= reat range and clarity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart sharp = political poetry in tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it vo= iced with an impressive singularity.=94 =20 Nicholas Karavatos lives near Dubai=2C teaching at the American University = of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. Previously he taught in Muscat=2C S= ultanate of Oman. He is a graduate of New College of California and Humbold= t State University.=20 =20 https://www.thirdthursdaypoets.org/=20 http://www.teapartybookshop.com/=20 =20 Nicholas Karavatos=92 next poetry reading / book-signing is sponsored by Ba= y Area Writing Project as part of their series "Writing Teachers Write" at = the Nomad Caf=E9=2C 6500 Shattuck=2C Oakland=2C CA on Wednesday=2C July 28= =2C 2010 at 5:00pm. =20 NO ASYLUM is available from these independent booksellers: Arcata=2C CA =96 Northtown Books La Jolla=2C CA =96 D.G. Wills Books Portland=2C OR =96 Powell=92s Books San Francisco=2C CA =96 Bird & Beckett San Francisco=2C CA =96 Books & Bookshelves Venice=2C CA =96 Beyond Baroque =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 17:28:30 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Cleary Subject: Re: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET In-Reply-To: <928611.32961.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for sharing this post. -- John On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, amy king wrote: > =93Th > WHAT WOULD WOOLF AND WHITMAN DO? > (A PRACTICAL PRIMER) > > > =93This is the beauty of the new media. There is no way to control it.= =94 > =96Srdja > Popovic > > > Cont -- > > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publis= hing-the-internet/ > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:50:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Red Rover Series / Experiment #38 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Red Rover Series {readings that play with reading} Experiment #38: Poetics of the Multitude SATURDAY, JULY 17th 7pm / doors lock 7:30 Featuring: The Next Objectivists with members Adriene Dodt Denise Dooley Elizabeth Marino Scott McFarland Matthias Regan Gene Tanta Adam Weg and a few surprises at Outer Space Studio 1474 N. Milwaukee Ave Chicago, Illinois suggested donation $4 we've got air-conditioning! **NEW VENUE** near CTA Damen blue line third floor walk up not wheelchair accessible THE NEXT OBJECTIVISTS is a free, open-to-the-public poetry workshop dedicat= ed to the study & reproduction of the outsidereal. We take this term from t= he =E2=80=9CBlack Mountain=E2=80=9D poet Edward Dorn & our name from the se= cond generation modernist poets associated with The Objectivist Press. Alth= ough writers associated with the Objectivists and Black Mountain =E2=80=9Cs= chools=E2=80=9D (Bunting, Creeley, H.D., Niedecker, Pound, Reznikoff, Willi= ams, Zukofsky to name only those we've already studied) are prominent stars= in our constellation, our objective is not to reproduce any particular sty= le, mode or tradition, but instead to draw on many different ways of doing = and making in order to isolate those practices of writing & publishing & ab= ove all those poetic effects which lead us out of the neoliberal present & = the future it imagines. The Next Objectivists Poetry Workshop was founded in January 2009. From the= n until now it meets every other Thursday evening (7:00 - 10:00) at Mess Ha= ll (http://www.messhall.org/) in Rogers Park, Chicago. Members make the cu= rriculum as we go along. Our meetings are potlucks and beginners are always= welcome. We read, discuss & write poetry together. As time allows we publ= ish our findings through our website: http://nextobjectivists.blogspot.com= =20 Red Rover Series is curated by Laura Goldstein and Jennifer Karmin. Each ev= ent is designed as a reading experiment with participation by local, nation= al, and international writers, artists, and performers. The series was foun= ded in 2005 by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin. Email ideas for reading experiments to us at redroverseries@yahoogroups.com The schedule for events is listed at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redroverseries =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:25:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists In-Reply-To: <45048.29374.qm@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I am, too. I first heard the Fugs in a lobby at Stony Brook around 1967 & once stood behind Tuli K. in line at the Toronto Zoo. On 7/12/10 4:30 PM, "Thomas savage" wrote: > I'm really sorry to hear about this.=A0 Tuli has been a part of my life sin= ce I > first heard the Fugs live when I was in my teens.=A0 So the man who jumped = off > the=20 > Brooklyn Bridge but didn't die, according to Ginsberg's great poem, has > finally=20 > passed away.=A0 He had a long, good life and was a joy to many poets and ot= her > people both with his poems and his drawings. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ________________________________ > From: steve dalachinsky > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 5:04:27 AM > Subject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passe= d > away=20 > today at noon please pass on to your lists >=20 > great friend and poet writer anarchist fug=A0 tuli=A0 kupferberg passed away > today at noon > please pass on to your lists >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:46:22 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pam Brown Subject: Calling doublechange or Kristin Prevallet MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Poeticists, Does anyone have an email address for 'doublechange.com' editorial contact please? Or, failing that, does anyone have Kristin Prevallet's current email addres= s? Please back channel if you can help p.brown62@gmail.com Thanks a million, Pam Brown --=20 ____________________________________ blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com website : http://pambrownbooks.blogspot.com/ associate editor : http://jacketmagazine.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 & continuing with Jacket2 in 2011 _____________________________________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:52:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: O Cleveland! As Lebron Leaves, Harvey Pekar Goes on the "Big Sleep" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry to hear that. American Splendor also was a very interesting movie. Murat On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 2:50 PM, David Chirot wrote: > Cult comic writer Harvey Pekar dead at 70 in Ohio > July 12, 2010, 10:44 AM EST > http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38206191/ns/today-today_books/?GT1=43001 > > CLEVELAND (AP) -- Comic-book writer Harvey Pekar, whose autobiographical > comic book series "American > Splendor" > portrayed his life with bone-dry honesty and wit, was found dead at home > early Monday, authorities said. He was 70. > > Officers were called to Pekar's suburban home by his wife about 1 a.m., > Cleveland Heights police Capt. Michael Cannon said. His body was found > between a bed and dresser. > > Pekar had been suffering from prostate cancer, asthma, high blood pressure > and depression, according to Cannon. Pekar had gone to bed about 4:30 p.m. > Sunday in good spirits, his wife told police. > > An autopsy was planned, said Powell Caesar, a spokesman for the Cuyahoga > County coroner's office in Cleveland. He had no information on the cause of > death. > > Pekar took a radically different track from the superhero-laden comics that > had dominated the industry. He instead specialized in the lives of ordinary > people, chronicling his life as a file clerk in Cleveland and his > relationship with his third wife, Joyce Brabner. His 1994 graphic novel, > "Our Cancer Year," detailed his battle with lymphoma. > > The dreary cover scene shows him sprawled beside his wife on a snowy > curbside with shopping bags on the ground. "Harvey, forget about the > groceries, honey. Let's get you inside first," she says. > > Pekar never drew himself but depended on collaborations with artists, most > notably his friend R. Crumb, who helped illustrate the first issue of the > ironically titled "American Splendor," published in 1976. It was made into > an acclaimed 2003 > filmstarring > Paul > Giamatti . The > most recent "American Splendor" was released in 2008. > > Pekar's quirky commentary developed a following and his insights and humor > were often a bit on the dark side. > > Lucy Shelton Caswell, curator of the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library & Museum > at Ohio State University, said it was inaccurate to describe Pekar's work > as > "cult." > > "His work was accepted by the mainstream," Caswell said. "It was bought by > public libraries and read widely." The cartoon library has all of Pekar's > works in its collection, she said. > > "He will be remembered as an innovator who wrote stories about ordinary > things that were then illustrated by some of the most notable cartoonists > of > the late 20th century," Caswell said. "People identified with what was > writing about and the stories that these people were drawing because it was > so ordinary." > > In 2003, the New York Film Critics Circle honored "American Splendor" as > best first film for the directing-writing team of Shari Springer > Berman and Robert > Pulcini . > Part > feature and part documentary, with animated elements added, the film > starred > Giamatti as the disgruntled Pekar. > > Pekar, who was a repeat TV guest of David > Letterman, > told The Associated Press in a 1997 interview that he was determined to > keep > writing his "American Splendor" series. > > "There's no end in sight for me. I want to continue to do it," Pekar said. > "It's a continuing autobiography, a life's work." > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:05:56 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jules Boykoff Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Allison Cobb, _Green-Wood_ (Factory School Press, 2010). : http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781600010675/greenwood.aspx Kaia Sand, _Remember to Wave_ (Tinfish Press, 2010). : http://tinfishpress.com/remember_to_wave.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 22:32:03 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: The Naked Truth Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com, ederi , elsalites@yahoogroups.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , obodooha@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The metaphors used in describing the aesthetics of the naked body in those days suggested the people=92s innocent appreciation of the pleasures of bei= ng in the flesh. The pubic hair that was rich and exuberant was called the =93= ozo ebule,=94 the mane of the ram. The woman=92s breasts that were firm and rea= dy were described as the ripe udala fruit. Naked bodies of humans always stimulated the creative sensibility and provided a language that said thing= s beyond taboo." Read the rest of "The Naked Truth" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Opinion/Columns/5593034-182/story.csp --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 01:19:50 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET In-Reply-To: <317487.65090.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Taking an alternate route might be 'your own revolution,' as indicated by > the title. I would have thought "revolution" operates at at least a slightly higher level than the solipsistic. > Or you really could just sit around waiting for the marketplace to find > you, ever the undiscovered genius-in-wait. it had dawned on some of them that they were already living in a post-capitalist world, but still it wasn't quite clear what that would eventually mean. what was clear, however, was that "marketplaces" and "poetry" just didn't have much in common anymore. paying the meagre connection even lip service had become tiresome and insulting. > Must we all stick to prescribed, 'sanctioned' publication methods? of course not. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:00:20 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gerald Schwartz Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists Comments: cc: Ruth Lepson In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As the 1st Gulf War broke out I interviewed him live over the air on WRPI..= . for over an hour... and at one point he said (with his parrots bickering = in the background) "You know, this all comes down to Apha apes wanting thei= r ways, having their way."=20 Gerald S. ---- Ruth Lepson wrote:=20 > I am, too. I first heard the Fugs in a lobby at Stony Brook around 1967 & > once stood behind Tuli K. in line at the Toronto Zoo. >=20 >=20 > On 7/12/10 4:30 PM, "Thomas savage" wrote: >=20 > > I'm really sorry to hear about this.=C2=A0 Tuli has been a part of my l= ife since I > > first heard the Fugs live when I was in my teens.=C2=A0 So the man who = jumped off > > the=20 > > Brooklyn Bridge but didn't die, according to Ginsberg's great poem, has > > finally=20 > > passed away.=C2=A0 He had a long, good life and was a joy to many poets= and other > > people both with his poems and his drawings. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > ________________________________ > > From: steve dalachinsky > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 5:04:27 AM > > Subject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg pas= sed > > away=20 > > today at noon please pass on to your lists > >=20 > > great friend and poet writer anarchist fug=C2=A0 tuli=C2=A0 kupferberg = passed away > > today at noon > > please pass on to your lists > >=20 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines & > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:16:29 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Tuli Kupferberg, Bohemian and Fug, Dies at 86 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tuli Kupferberg=2C Bohemian and Fug=2C Dies at 86 http://www.nyt= imes.com/2010/07/13/arts/music/13kupferberg.html?ref=3Darts =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H= otmail.=20 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmulticalendar&ocid=3D= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:29:40 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ----- Original Message ---- From: John Cleary =0A=0AThank you for sharing this post.=0A-- John=0A=0AOn = Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 4:21 PM, amy king wrote:=0A=0A>= WHAT WOULD WOOLF AND WHITMAN DO?=0A> (A PRACTICAL PRIMER)=0A>=0A>=0A> =E2= =80=9CThis is the beauty of the new media. There is no way to control it.= =E2=80=9D=0A> =E2=80=93Srdja=0A> Popovic=0A>=0A>=0A> Cont --=0A>=0A>http://= amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-= internet/=0A>/=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 05:34:56 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Re: YOUR OWN REVOLUTION: POETRY, PUBLISHING & THE INTERNET In-Reply-To: <3A57D806DD2A496A897DDB98DCEBD17E@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Revolution" can operate on any level at any scale, including that of a 45 = rpm =0Arecord player, even now.=0A=0ANo one escapes the marketplace, not ev= en the supposed hermit or the virtual =0Ainterloper using the gas of his ow= n 'private' internet / feelings. =0A=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----= =0AFrom: Jim Andrews =0A=0A> Taking an alternate route might= be 'your own revolution,' as indicated by the =0A>title.=0A=0AI would have= thought "revolution" operates at at least a slightly higher level =0Athan = the solipsistic.=0A=0A> Or you really could just sit around waiting for the= marketplace to find you,=0Aever the undiscovered genius-in-wait.=0A=0Ait h= ad dawned on some of them that they were already living in a post-capitalis= t =0Aworld, but still it wasn't quite clear what that would eventually mean= . what was =0Aclear, however, was that "marketplaces" and "poetry" just did= n't have much in =0Acommon anymore. paying the meagre connection even lip s= ervice had become =0Atiresome and insulting.=0A=0A=0A=0A>=0A> =E2=80=9CThis= is the beauty of the new media. There is no way to control it.=E2=80=9D= =0A> =E2=80=93Srdja=0A> Popovic=0A>=0A>=0A> Cont --=0A>=0A>http://amyking.w= ordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/= =0A>=0A>/=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:32:01 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists In-Reply-To: <20100713110021.RXTM3.127218.root@hrndva-web02-z02> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tuli had parrots? Anyone know what kind? On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Gerald Schwartz w= rote: > As the 1st Gulf War broke out I interviewed him live over the air on WRPI= ... for over an hour... and at one point he said (with his parrots bickerin= g in the background) "You know, this all comes down to Apha apes wanting th= eir ways, having their way." > > Gerald S. > > > ---- Ruth Lepson wrote: >> I am, too. I first heard the Fugs in a lobby at Stony Brook around 1967 = & >> once stood behind Tuli K. in line at the Toronto Zoo. >> >> >> On 7/12/10 4:30 PM, "Thomas savage" wrote: >> >> > I'm really sorry to hear about this.=A0 Tuli has been a part of my lif= e since I >> > first heard the Fugs live when I was in my teens.=A0 So the man who ju= mped off >> > the >> > Brooklyn Bridge but didn't die, according to Ginsberg's great poem, ha= s >> > finally >> > passed away.=A0 He had a long, good life and was a joy to many poets a= nd other >> > people both with his poems and his drawings. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: steve dalachinsky >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> > Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 5:04:27 AM >> > Subject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg pa= ssed >> > away >> > today at noon please pass on to your lists >> > >> > great friend and poet writer anarchist fug=A0 tuli=A0 kupferberg passe= d away >> > today at noon >> > please pass on to your lists >> > >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines & >> > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines & >> > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 02:54:23 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: whit griffin Subject: New Skysill Press Publication MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, I'm excited to announce the Skysill Press publication of my new book, Penta= teuch: http://skysillpress.blogspot.com/2010/07/just-published.html whit=A0=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:54:16 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Joel Lewis Subject: Harvey Pekar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes I knew Pekar before he gained fame as a comic book writer. I worked in a jazz collectors shop in North Bergen, NJ & he was a legend among a group of Cleveland jazzbeaus. He would call us up on saturday (our only real sales day0 & want to speak to my boss, soul jazz producer Bob Porter, about Gene Ammons. Harvey did a fantastic strip called "Local Poet" which is sadly not in the "best of" volume that came out when the movie was released. It perfectly captured a local scene (with even a nod to da levy!) & to the reality of being a working poet. This was characteristic of the best of his work -- being able to get inside the nuances of everyday lived life -- another example was "Standing Behind Old Jewish Ladies in the Supermarket Line". he was also an acute observer of racial and ethnic differnces in a working class community. The best of this stuff is found in the early issues, before Harvey starts appearing on the old Letterman Late, late show & becomes a bit of a cult object. Hopefully, someone will collect pekar's jazz writings, mostly reviews and, in later years, liner notes. They were honest and informed. Unlike a lot of older fans, he keep up with jazz currents. I interviewed him for an article at the time of his "Our Cancer Year". He was telling me about his interest in John Zorn & the then-rising "downtown scene" & added "I'm always interested in what's going on NOW." Joel Lewis ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 09:28:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Current Nomadics Blog Posts Comments: To: British-Irish List Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Check out these recent post from Nomadics blog at = http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ Water, Rather than Oil Tuli Kupferberg (1923-2010) Robin Blaser Reading in Berkeley Celan, Goethe, Hahneman, Handke and more. Enough Oily Eyesores Already =97 I want Desert! Jamais Deux sans Trois: Oil Dispersal Projection Gulf Of Mexico Sea Floor Fractured Beyond Repair Gulf Oil isn=92t All that=92s Leaking=85 Picasso, Pablo Ruiz: Spanish Poet Who Dabbled in Painting, Drawing, and = Sculpture & have a great summer! Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris =20 cell phone: 518 225 7123 = =20 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 06:49:55 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Ruiz III Subject: What Is a Philosopher? Comments: To: nruiz@intertheory.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kritikos V.7, May-June 2010 What is a Philosopher? http://intertheory.org/philosopher.htm Nicholas Ruiz III, Ph.D NRIII for Congress 2010 http://intertheory.org/nriiiforcongress2010.html ____________________________________ Editor, Kritikos http://intertheory.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:13:31 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nic Sebastian Subject: Ten Questions on Poets and Technology: John Vick In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John Vick responds this week to Ten Questions on Poets and Technology - htt= p://bit.ly/abA09T. Best=2C Nic Nic Sebastianhttp://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot= mail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmultiaccount&ocid=3DP= ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 23:17:59 +0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dean Brink Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Kenneth, If you are interested in exploring historically grounded writing that is just beyond the standard canon you might take a look at Brian Turner's _Here Bullet_, Barrett Watten's _Bad History_, Eliot Weinberger's _What Happened Here_, Rodrigo Toscano's dramatic-poetic engagements in _Collapsible Poetics Theater_, and Ali Zarrin's _I Made You Mine, America_ and _The Book of I_. Best wishes for your project. Dean Brink Tamkang University, Taiwan interpoetics.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:37:29 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry & Dyslexic Decompostions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Mark-- Many thanks!! (How cd i forget a title i love so much!--) I had just been writing abt "Decompositions" and so "they" found their way into the "Smithsonian Depostions"--!! Perhaps one might call it the "Decomposition of Old Depositions Muddied the Inks of Composition: Seismic Shifts in Title Recall Affect Textual Topographies" Thanks again Mark and all very best for your summer-- et--- Joyeux Fetes!! pour le Quartrorze Juillet! abrazos! david On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Mark DuCharme wrote: > Dave, > > The correct title of the Coolidge work that you speak of is Smithsonian > Depositions / Subject to a Film. > > All Best, > > Mark DuCharme > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:13:22 -0500 > > From: davidbchirot@HOTMAIL.COM > > Subject: Re: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > Dear Kenneth-- > > > > In the tradition of his great grandfather Herman Melville, Paul Metcalf > combined documentary materials with fiction (as Melville does in Moby > Dick)--in his great collage book Genoa: A Telling of Wonders, which is a > novel interspersed with writings of Melville's and the Dairies of Columbus. > Metcalf then went further, creating works which are completely made of > others' writing, arranged as both historical/geological/floarl/fauna > documentary materials arranged with a brilliant ear, creating music out of > documentary (non-literary often) texts--his masterpiece in this vein is > APALACHE--not a word of it being Paul's, yet at the same time, by way of his > eye, ears, hands, tongue making the materials both intensely personal and > and opening them outwards as though they have arisen from the ground itself. > (Paul lived for some time on Quarry Road, very appropriately, as Susan Howe > once pointed out--Paul had a great influence/effect on Howe's writings, as > he himself had made use of Olson's works--minus the misogyny.) Other works > by Paul treat the landscape, the shifting of the earth's tectonic plates in > relation with migraines and a trip on route I-57, through Illinois, > investigating the history and landscape of the region a he celebrates > being"I-57" (he literally had just become "I-57" as in--Paul Metcalf, 57 > years old.) Several others of Paul's works combine documentary materials > with a kind of theatrical performance, a staging of historical events and > personages in an imagined and associate theater --as in BOTH, a book which > combines the lives & personages of John Wilkes Booth & Edgar Allan Poe > (Booth/Poe yielding the "both" of the tile.) The performance and theatre > aspect of the book, (Paul also wrote plays and performed in a few)-- of > course, has as cathartic event the famous night in Ford's theater, in which > Booth plays the role of his life & assassinates President Lincoln. > > Place also plays a great role, is a great theme in Metcalf's works--as in > Apalache & I-57--and in others works such as Huscaran, regarding he Indians > of Peru, and The Wonderful White Whale of Kansas, which combines the life > and works of Franck Baum author of the Oz Books, with Moby Dick into a study > of the meaning of home. Waters of Potomac, like Apache is the "telling of > --historical/geological/botanical etc--of wonders of that region, told, like > Apalache via the poetic arrangement of documentary materials. In Zip Odes, > small poems are composed for each state in the Union by using places names > in the different Zip Code areas of rhe country. Many other works combines > geographical an historical materials linking race tracks in North Carolinia > with sites and histories in South America-- > > > > Though Metcal's works are in prose, it is a prose which traverses many > modulations of the prose poem, making use of the lyrical impulse, the > "voices" of history as in Pound's and WCW's works, documentary drawing on > popular culture and contemporary historical events as John Dos Passos did > in the USA trilogy, and the grandeur a form of epic in APALACHE. Though the > form is in physical appearance prose or prose poem, the underlying > structuring of the works is via the ear, via the poetic impulses and rhythms > which run through the flow of time, history, ge0ology, the lives of people, > places, things, animals, insects, plants-- > > > > Often the poetry of Metcalf's most astonishing passages attains the > condition of music-Paul was a great admirer of another user of documentary > materials, composer Charles Ives. > > > > Coffee House, fortunately while Paul was stil alive--published a > magnificent three volume Collected Works by Paul, which includes also his > theatrical pieces and essays. > > > > Asked at one point about his "collage" style of poetic/documentary > construction, Paul jokingly called it "Totem Paul"--a vertical construction > of the materials in space and time. > > > > In another joking vein, as though seeing a cockeyed reflection of his own > mixture of the documentary and other genres/media, Paul once wrote to me > that a collage in Missouri was offering a course in the "South Sea Island > Works of Herman Melville and the Hwiian films of Elvis Presley." > > > > Paul was greatly admired by poets, more so than by prose writers. Besides > Susan Howe, Robert Creeley was a great admirer of his works, s was Clark > Coolidge, among many others. For roughly a decade Paul and his wife Nancy > lived in close proximity to Black Mountain College and often attended events > there as well as developing friendships with many of the poets and artists. > > > > Paul first met Charles Olson when the latter was traveling about New > England & New York, in search of the scattered volumes of Melville's > library--with an eye towards assebling as many of the volumes as possible > for the literary treasures they contained by way of Melville's Marginalia. > 12-14 years old at the time, the much older Olson appeared to Paul as yet > another one of the stream of Melville fans and obssssed fanatics, though far > larger, and far more intensely essaying not only to collect information, but > to become, as much as possible, a member of the Melville/Metcalf family > line. For example, a vivid memory of Paul's was watching the gigatically > framed Olson trying to hide behind bushes as he followed Melville's daughter > down the street, trying to imitate her wlk, as though a "magical" way of > "walking the walk" or "faking it until you make it" would transform him into > an actual "embodiment" of the Melville "line." > > > > I can't recommend Paul's work to you highly enough, with the > understanding, however, that he may not be techncally/formally speaking, > conventionally "poet enough" to "qualify." As Prose poetry, perhaps Paul's > work might qualify-- > > > > Another work which is similar in some ways to Paul's is the brilliant > Smithsonian Decompositions by Clark Coolidge. I would highly recommend > this work, also--as Coolidge weaves a poetic "narrative" od a sort by > combining quotes from interviews with Jean-Luc Godard, historical, > geological texts, quotations from various fictional/poetical works linked by > both associative trains of thought and the poetry of pure sound (as does > Paul). Smithsonian Decompositions, like many of Paul's works, is a work of > the imagination constructed out of streams of factual "things"--quotations, > allusions, puns, "sound poetry" aspects, and the conveyance of visions of > the imagination via the sturdy > > poem's "machine made out of words" (WCW). > > > > I hope perhaps to have interested you into at least taking a look at > Paul's works, as well as Coolidge's extraordinary Smithsonian > Decompositions-- > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 10:22:49 -0400 > > > From: sherwood@IUP.EDU > > > Subject: Seeking Titles: Documentary / Social Poetry > > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > > > > I'm drawing together a list of poetry in English, especially > > > book-length collections that might be described as documentary or > > > social texts. Poems that respond in a self-conscious way to a temporal > > > moment, be it contemporary or historical .... poems that absorb and > > > refashion documents and found texts. The definition and scope are > > > somewhat flexible; I'll list some of the titles I've already come up > > > with. I suspect there are some egregious holes and oversights. I'd > > > welcome suggestions of further additions that bear some family > > > resemblance to these: > > > > > > Charles Reznikoff, _Testimony_ > > > Muriel Rukeyser, _US 1_ > > > Kamau Brathwaite, _Middle Passages_ > > > Rosemarie Waldrop, _A Key Into the Language of America_ > > > Mark Nowak, _Coal Mountain Elementary_ > > > Allen Ginsberg, _Kaddish_ > > > David Antin, _Code of Flag Behavior_ > > > WC Williams, _Paterson_ > > > Charles Olson, _Maximus_ > > > Melvin Tolson, _Libretto for the Republic of Liberia_ > > > Susan Howe, _Singularities_ > > > Lorine Niedecker, "North Central" > > > Jerome Rothenberg, "14 Stations" > > > > > > Thanks for any help. > > > > > > ================================== > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from > your inbox. > > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:43:40 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: FW: Klebnikov Karnaval--from Guido Vermeulen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable includes invite--takes place in belgium in sept--in belgian russian french = etc From: davidbchirot@hotmail.com To: davidbaptistechirot.ruby@blogger.com Subject: Klebnikov Karnaval--from Guido Vermeual Date: Tue=2C 13 Jul 2010 10:42:07 -0500 KLEBNIKOVJul 13=2C '10 10:16 AM for everyoneLink: http://khlebnikov.wordpress.com Organisers of a yearly poetry festivalTags: belgium=2C poetry=2C vispo = =20 The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H= otmail. Get busy. =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:26:08 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the kind that never spoke back HA On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 07:32:01 -0500 mIEKAL aND writes: > Tuli had parrots? Anyone know what kind? > > On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Gerald Schwartz > wrote: > > As the 1st Gulf War broke out I interviewed him live over the air > on WRPI... for over an hour... and at one point he said (with his > parrots bickering in the background) "You know, this all comes down > to Apha apes wanting their ways, having their way." > > > > Gerald S. > > > > > > ---- Ruth Lepson wrote: > >> I am, too. I first heard the Fugs in a lobby at Stony Brook > around 1967 & > >> once stood behind Tuli K. in line at the Toronto Zoo. > >> > >> > >> On 7/12/10 4:30 PM, "Thomas savage" > wrote: > >> > >> > I'm really sorry to hear about this. Tuli has been a part of > my life since I > >> > first heard the Fugs live when I was in my teens. So the man > who jumped off > >> > the > >> > Brooklyn Bridge but didn't die, according to Ginsberg's great > poem, has > >> > finally > >> > passed away. He had a long, good life and was a joy to many > poets and other > >> > people both with his poems and his drawings. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ________________________________ > >> > From: steve dalachinsky > >> > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >> > Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 5:04:27 AM > >> > Subject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli > kupferberg passed > >> > away > >> > today at noon please pass on to your lists > >> > > >> > great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg > passed away > >> > today at noon > >> > please pass on to your lists > >> > > >> > ================================== > >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. > Check guidelines & > >> > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > ================================== > >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. > Check guidelines & > >> > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 10:55:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: nieuwland jeroen Subject: Re: What Is a Philosopher? In-Reply-To: <161293.70330.qm@web306.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Nice piece, thanks. You raise this as the most presssing question for our time: "Why is the world failing in its promise of justice for all?" Well what about Badiou to name just one obvious example? He has a radical egalitarian philosophy & is also active politically, involved with the sans papiers in France. Agreed, though, that there are too few philosophers around, in your sense of the word, but were there ever enough? Best, Jeroen ________________________________ From: Nicholas Ruiz III To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 3:49:55 PM Subject: What Is a Philosopher? Kritikos V.7, May-June 2010 What is a Philosopher? http://intertheory.org/philosopher.htm Nicholas Ruiz III, Ph.D NRIII for Congress 2010 http://intertheory.org/nriiiforcongress2010.html ____________________________________ Editor, Kritikos http://intertheory.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 13:51:20 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: tuli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?" Tuli Kupferberg, Poet, Songwriter, Anarchist, Jew - Dies at 86 Born Norman or in Hebrew, Naphtali on Sept 28, 1923 (one day and 22 years before me), poet, singer-songwriter, revolutionary, publisher, street vender, historian, mentor sage, wise man and wise guy, forward-thinking artist, activist, intellectual,pacifist, teacher, dreamer with a desire to contribute his ideas for the construction of a better world, boho and dear friend Tuli Kupferberg,who, though never really considering himself Beat was anthologized as early as 1959 in Fred Mcdarrah's The Beat Scene, died on Monday at N.Y. Downtown Hospital in Manhattan at the age of 86 after a prolonged battle with Life and all its joys and griefs and after suffering two dibilitating strokes. In the 1964 at age 40 he went on to become, in own his words, “the world’s oldest rock star” after co-founding the Fugs with poet Ed Sanders, and then-member Ken Weaver. They were in my opinion the first poetry/folk-rock band and a definite precursor of punk, bawdy and politically outspoken. Their first lp was produced by the equally legendary Harry Smith on Broadside and later re-issued on ESP along with their other lps. His first solo record, No Deposit, No Return was also issued by ESP. At the height of their career during the psychedelic era the group was signed by the then co-owned Frank Sinatra label Reprise who also signed Hendrix among others. When very he young worked as a medical librarian. Tuli lived 2 blocks from my apt. We first officially met while both of us were hawking our wares on the street though I had known him through the music having first seen the Fugs play way back in the '60s in various venues such as a loft space on Great Jones street, the Provincetown Theatre, The Astor Place Theater, and once even at a free concert in Thompkins Square Park, where, standing behind me to my amazement was none other than Charles Mingus. When Tuli and I first conversed some time in the mid-70's he was hawking these pamphlets which were I think, like $1.29 for one and 99 cents for two, the catch being the more you bought the cheaper the became. Though I could be wrong , memory being what it is > Hey Tuli help me out here. He was fluent in yiddish. Had a passion for Yiddish theater which he shared with fellow poet and street vendor Harry Nudel and though he loved being a Yid was an avid supporter of Palestine. Tuli always told me he hated poetry and the scene in general. He was never hierarchical and didn't choose his friends on their status in the art world but on his ability to share with them his knowledge, sharp wit and love. There were the many times we sat together in the park sharing a pint of Haagen Daz or a Good Humor bar. He loved ice cream. Particularly chocolate. Tuli's great songs included Morning, Morning, Kill For Peace and Nothing. On their last cd he wrote the poignantly beautiful " Where is My Wandering Jew Tonight" never forgetting his roots. Another song in that vein and of mocking protest was "Backward Jewish Soldiers" a para-song based on "Onward Christrian Soldiers." Tuli became something of celebrity when he was mentioned in Allen Ginsberg’s “Howl” as being the one who “jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge" then walking away "unknown and forgotten.” It was actually the Manhattan Bidge but the Brooklyn Bridge seemed more romantic. Actually he didn't walk away but was to Gouveneur Hospital with a minor spinal fracture. He was published in and published such zines as Birth and Yeah and was the first to publish the African - American Beat poet Ted Joans as well as over 50 of his own books. He loved to take standard tunes which were called para-songs and write his own lyrics to them doing this more and more in his later years and while bedridden wrote a series of short pieces he called "perverbs" punning on well-known aphorisms and posting them on YouTube. He had a long running cable show called Revolting News which in its latter stages was filmed and edited by his long time partner Thelma Blitz. Tuli has spent the past 20 or so years selling his cartoons on the street ( me spending many of them with him or directly across the street selling lps and books) and inspiring many of us to not give up despite the adversities of government, war and $$$$. He embraced his Beatnik lifestyle as a friend once told me I should. He never shrank from his commitment to protest injustice. Never gave into the "MAN". Never took the straight and narrow path. Always fought corporate interests and a greedy, demonic capitalistic value system. Long time drummer for the Fugs Coby Batty told me this story on the phone the day Tuli passed that one day while walking in Brooklyn Tuli turned and said that he wanted his epitaph to read "What the hell was that?" - and as he mentioned in one of his perverbs - "Life is funny, you can die." How Jewish can ya get?? His is survived by his wife, Sylvia Topp, three children, grand kids. On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:54:16 +0000 Joel Lewis writes: > I knew Pekar before he gained fame as a comic book writer. I worked > in a > jazz collectors shop in North Bergen, NJ & he was a legend among a > group of > Cleveland jazzbeaus. He would call us up on saturday (our only real > sales > day0 & want to speak to my boss, soul jazz producer Bob Porter, > about Gene > Ammons. > > Harvey did a fantastic strip called "Local Poet" which is sadly not > in > the "best of" volume that came out when the movie was released. It > > perfectly captured a local scene (with even a nod to da levy!) & to > the > reality of being a working poet. This was characteristic of the best > of his > work -- being able to get inside the nuances of everyday lived life > -- > another example was "Standing Behind Old Jewish Ladies in the > Supermarket > Line". he was also an acute observer of racial and ethnic differnces > in a > working class community. The best of this stuff is found in the > early > issues, before Harvey starts appearing on the old Letterman Late, > late show > & becomes a bit of a cult object. > > Hopefully, someone will collect pekar's jazz writings, mostly > reviews and, > in later years, liner notes. They were honest and informed. Unlike a > lot of > older fans, he keep up with jazz currents. I interviewed him for an > article > at the time of his "Our Cancer Year". He was telling me about his > interest > in John Zorn & the then-rising "downtown scene" & added "I'm always > > interested in what's going on NOW." > > Joel Lewis > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:34:08 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: CFW -- call for submissions Comments: To: Discussion of Women's Poetry List , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Katerina Stoykova-Klemer Call for submissions: Accents Publishing, an independent press for brilliant voices (http://www.accents-publishing.com/), seeks poems of up to 50 words for an anthology of very short poems, edited by Katerina Stoykova-Klemer. Previously published work is accepted if credited. Send submissions, along with short bio, in the body of an e-mail to accents.publishing@gmail.com ******** Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ Poets for Living Waters + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:02:14 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: tuli In-Reply-To: <20100713.135121.620.48.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit lovely, steve. thanks. steve dalachinsky wrote: > "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?" > > Tuli Kupferberg, Poet, Songwriter, Anarchist, Jew - Dies at 86 > > Born Norman or in Hebrew, Naphtali on Sept 28, 1923 (one day and 22 > years before me), poet, singer-songwriter, revolutionary, publisher, > street vender, historian, mentor sage, wise man and wise guy, > forward-thinking artist, activist, intellectual,pacifist, teacher, > dreamer with a desire to contribute his ideas for the construction of a > better world, boho and dear friend Tuli Kupferberg,who, though never > really considering himself Beat was anthologized as early as 1959 in > Fred Mcdarrah's The Beat Scene, died on Monday at N.Y. Downtown Hospital > in Manhattan at the age of 86 after a prolonged battle with Life and all > its joys and griefs and after suffering two dibilitating strokes. In the > 1964 at age 40 he went on to become, in own his words, “the world’s > oldest rock star” after co-founding the Fugs with poet Ed Sanders, and > then-member Ken Weaver. They were in my opinion the first > poetry/folk-rock band and a definite precursor of punk, bawdy and > politically outspoken. Their first lp was produced by the equally > legendary Harry Smith on Broadside and later re-issued on ESP along with > their other lps. His first solo record, No Deposit, No Return was also > issued by ESP. At the height of their career during the psychedelic era > the group was signed by the then co-owned Frank Sinatra label Reprise who > also signed Hendrix among others. When very he young worked as a medical > librarian. > > > Tuli lived 2 blocks from my apt. We first officially met while both of > us were hawking our wares on the street though I had known him through > the music having first seen the Fugs play way back in the '60s in various > venues such as a loft space on Great Jones street, the Provincetown > Theatre, The Astor Place Theater, and once even at a free concert in > Thompkins Square Park, where, standing behind me to my amazement was none > other than Charles Mingus. When Tuli and I first conversed some time in > the mid-70's he was hawking these pamphlets which were I think, like > $1.29 for one and 99 cents for two, the catch being the more you bought > the cheaper the became. Though I could be wrong , memory being what it is > >> Hey Tuli help me out here. He was fluent in yiddish. Had a passion for >> > Yiddish theater which he shared with fellow poet and street vendor Harry > Nudel and though he loved being a Yid was an avid supporter of Palestine. > Tuli always told me he hated poetry and the scene in general. He was > never hierarchical and didn't choose his friends on their status in the > art world but on his ability to share with them his knowledge, sharp wit > and love. There were the many times we sat together in the park sharing a > pint of Haagen Daz or a Good Humor bar. He loved ice cream. Particularly > chocolate. > > > Tuli's great songs included Morning, Morning, Kill For Peace and Nothing. > On their last cd he wrote the poignantly beautiful " Where is My > Wandering Jew Tonight" never forgetting his roots. Another song in that > vein and of mocking protest was "Backward Jewish Soldiers" a para-song > based on "Onward Christrian Soldiers." Tuli became something of > celebrity when he was mentioned in Allen Ginsberg’s “Howl” as being the > one who “jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge" then walking away "unknown and > forgotten.” It was actually the Manhattan Bidge but the Brooklyn Bridge > seemed more romantic. Actually he didn't walk away but was to Gouveneur > Hospital with a minor spinal fracture. > > He was published in and published such zines as Birth and Yeah and was > the first to publish the African - American Beat poet Ted Joans as well > as over 50 of his own books. > He loved to take standard tunes which were called para-songs and write > his own lyrics to them doing this more and more in his later years and > while bedridden wrote a series of short pieces he called "perverbs" > punning on well-known aphorisms and posting them on YouTube. He had a > long running cable show called Revolting News which in its latter stages > was filmed and edited by his long time partner Thelma Blitz. > > Tuli has spent the past 20 or so years selling his cartoons on the street > ( me spending many of them with him or directly across the street selling > lps and books) and inspiring many of us to not give up despite the > adversities of government, war and $$$$. He embraced his Beatnik > lifestyle as a friend once told me I should. He never shrank from his > commitment to protest injustice. Never gave into the "MAN". Never took > the straight and narrow path. Always fought corporate interests and a > greedy, demonic capitalistic value system. > > > > Long time drummer for the Fugs Coby Batty told me this story on the phone > the day Tuli passed that one day while walking in Brooklyn Tuli turned > and said that he wanted his epitaph to read "What the hell was that?" - > and as he mentioned in one of his perverbs - "Life is funny, you can > die." How Jewish can ya get?? > > His is survived by his wife, Sylvia Topp, three children, grand kids. > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:54:16 +0000 Joel Lewis > writes: > >> I knew Pekar before he gained fame as a comic book writer. I worked >> in a >> jazz collectors shop in North Bergen, NJ & he was a legend among a >> group of >> Cleveland jazzbeaus. He would call us up on saturday (our only real >> sales >> day0 & want to speak to my boss, soul jazz producer Bob Porter, >> about Gene >> Ammons. >> >> Harvey did a fantastic strip called "Local Poet" which is sadly not >> in >> the "best of" volume that came out when the movie was released. It >> >> perfectly captured a local scene (with even a nod to da levy!) & to >> the >> reality of being a working poet. This was characteristic of the best >> of his >> work -- being able to get inside the nuances of everyday lived life >> -- >> another example was "Standing Behind Old Jewish Ladies in the >> Supermarket >> Line". he was also an acute observer of racial and ethnic differnces >> in a >> working class community. The best of this stuff is found in the >> early >> issues, before Harvey starts appearing on the old Letterman Late, >> late show >> & becomes a bit of a cult object. >> >> Hopefully, someone will collect pekar's jazz writings, mostly >> reviews and, >> in later years, liner notes. They were honest and informed. Unlike a >> lot of >> older fans, he keep up with jazz currents. I interviewed him for an >> article >> at the time of his "Our Cancer Year". He was telling me about his >> interest >> in John Zorn & the then-rising "downtown scene" & added "I'm always >> >> interested in what's going on NOW." >> >> Joel Lewis >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:59:46 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: carol dorf Subject: Re: Harvey Pekar In-Reply-To: <90e6ba53a56ce6803f048b445dba@google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I didn't know Pekar, but this spring he came out to Berkeley to do a performance along with Dan Plonsey (a local composer & a colleague) at the Center for Jewish Studies. Plonsey and Pekar they had collaborated on an opera. The evening was very loosely structured; but I agree that Pekar's discussion of jazz was very much focused on contemporary music. The parts of the opera Plonsey's band and Pekar performed were compelling -- I hope the performance as a whole is revived. On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:54 AM, Joel Lewis wrote: > I knew Pekar before he gained fame as a comic book writer. I worked in a > jazz collectors shop in North Bergen, NJ & he was a legend among a group of > Cleveland jazzbeaus. He would call us up on saturday (our only real sales > day0 & want to speak to my boss, soul jazz producer Bob Porter, about Gene > Ammons. > > Harvey did a fantastic strip called "Local Poet" which is sadly not in the > "best of" volume that came out when the movie was released. It perfectly > captured a local scene (with even a nod to da levy!) & to the reality of > being a working poet. This was characteristic of the best of his work -- > being able to get inside the nuances of everyday lived life -- another > example was "Standing Behind Old Jewish Ladies in the Supermarket Line". he > was also an acute observer of racial and ethnic differnces in a working > class community. The best of this stuff is found in the early issues, before > Harvey starts appearing on the old Letterman Late, late show & becomes a bit > of a cult object. > > Hopefully, someone will collect pekar's jazz writings, mostly reviews and, > in later years, liner notes. They were honest and informed. Unlike a lot of > older fans, he keep up with jazz currents. I interviewed him for an article > at the time of his "Our Cancer Year". He was telling me about his interest > in John Zorn & the then-rising "downtown scene" & added "I'm always > interested in what's going on NOW." > > Joel Lewis > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:46:32 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Francis Raven Subject: Re: New Issue of There Is Now Online In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 it looks so great, thanks again for including me! all my best Francis On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 7:49 PM, Loretta Clodfelter wrote: > The most recent issue of There is now up at http://www.therejournal.com. > > Check out new work from Dean Brink, Jeff Crouch, Lara Durback, Melissa > Eleftherion, Mark Stephen Finein, Crag Hill, Carrie Hunter, erica > lewis, Anne Elezabeth Pluto, Francis Raven, Christopher Rizzo, Sam > Schild, Jennifer Styperk, and Nicolette Westfall. > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- Francis Raven 2125 14th St. NW #332 Washington DC 20009 francisraven@gmail.com 202-621-7345 http://www.ravensaesthetica.com/ Raven's Occasional Spice Club: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/716933849/ravens-occasional-spice-club ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:07:40 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: re tuli funeral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit tuli to be funeralized at st marks sat 12-3 then buried and afterward a "party" somewhere maybe at st marks ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:45:00 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Benjamin Rybeck Subject: Sonora Review Poetry Contest - $1000 Prize MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A prize of $1,000 and publication in Sonora Review - the literary journal published at the University of Arizona - is given annually for a poem. Claudia Rankine will judge. Submit up to three poems totaling no more than 10 pages with a $15 entry fee, either by post or online through our website= . Each submission includes a copy of the winter issue and must be submitted online or postmarked by midnight December 1. Last year=92s recipient of the award, judged by Caroline Bergvall, was Pete= r Jay Shippy for his poem =93White for diluting dreams." Submit online at sonorareview.com. Submit by post: Sonora Review, Poetry Contest, Department of English, University of Arizona Tucson, AZ 85721. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:27:24 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: tuli MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit not done yet On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:02:14 -0500 Maria Damon writes: > lovely, steve. thanks. > > steve dalachinsky wrote: > > "WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?" > > > > Tuli Kupferberg, Poet, Songwriter, Anarchist, Jew - Dies at 86 > > > > Born Norman or in Hebrew, Naphtali on Sept 28, 1923 (one day and > 22 > > years before me), poet, singer-songwriter, revolutionary, > publisher, > > street vender, historian, mentor sage, wise man and wise guy, > > forward-thinking artist, activist, intellectual,pacifist, teacher, > > dreamer with a desire to contribute his ideas for the construction > of a > > better world, boho and dear friend Tuli Kupferberg,who, though > never > > really considering himself Beat was anthologized as early as 1959 > in > > Fred Mcdarrah's The Beat Scene, died on Monday at N.Y. Downtown > Hospital > > in Manhattan at the age of 86 after a prolonged battle with Life > and all > > its joys and griefs and after suffering two dibilitating strokes. > In the > > 1964 at age 40 he went on to become, in own his words, “the > world’s > > oldest rock star” after co-founding the Fugs with poet Ed > Sanders, and > > then-member Ken Weaver. They were in my opinion the first > > poetry/folk-rock band and a definite precursor of punk, bawdy and > > politically outspoken. Their first lp was produced by the equally > > legendary Harry Smith on Broadside and later re-issued on ESP > along with > > their other lps. His first solo record, No Deposit, No Return was > also > > issued by ESP. At the height of their career during the > psychedelic era > > the group was signed by the then co-owned Frank Sinatra label > Reprise who > > also signed Hendrix among others. When very he young worked as a > medical > > librarian. > > > > > > Tuli lived 2 blocks from my apt. We first officially met while > both of > > us were hawking our wares on the street though I had known him > through > > the music having first seen the Fugs play way back in the '60s in > various > > venues such as a loft space on Great Jones street, the Provincetown > > Theatre, The Astor Place Theater, and once even at a free concert > in > > Thompkins Square Park, where, standing behind me to my amazement > was none > > other than Charles Mingus. When Tuli and I first conversed some > time in > > the mid-70's he was hawking these pamphlets which were I think, > like > > $1.29 for one and 99 cents for two, the catch being the more you > bought > > the cheaper the became. Though I could be wrong , memory being > what it is > > > >> Hey Tuli help me out here. He was fluent in yiddish. Had a > passion for > >> > > Yiddish theater which he shared with fellow poet and street vendor > Harry > > Nudel and though he loved being a Yid was an avid supporter of > Palestine. > > Tuli always told me he hated poetry and the scene in general. He > was > > never hierarchical and didn't choose his friends on their status > in the > > art world but on his ability to share with them his knowledge, > sharp wit > > and love. There were the many times we sat together in the park > sharing a > > pint of Haagen Daz or a Good Humor bar. He loved ice cream. > Particularly > > chocolate. > > > > > > Tuli's great songs included Morning, Morning, Kill For Peace and > Nothing. > > On their last cd he wrote the poignantly beautiful " Where is My > > Wandering Jew Tonight" never forgetting his roots. Another song in > that > > vein and of mocking protest was "Backward Jewish Soldiers" a > para-song > > based on "Onward Christrian Soldiers." Tuli became something of > > celebrity when he was mentioned in Allen Ginsberg’s “Howl” as > being the > > one who “jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge" then walking away > "unknown and > > forgotten.” It was actually the Manhattan Bidge but the Brooklyn > Bridge > > seemed more romantic. Actually he didn't walk away but was to > Gouveneur > > Hospital with a minor spinal fracture. > > > > He was published in and published such zines as Birth and Yeah and > was > > the first to publish the African - American Beat poet Ted Joans as > well > > as over 50 of his own books. > > He loved to take standard tunes which were called para-songs and > write > > his own lyrics to them doing this more and more in his later years > and > > while bedridden wrote a series of short pieces he called > "perverbs" > > punning on well-known aphorisms and posting them on YouTube. He > had a > > long running cable show called Revolting News which in its latter > stages > > was filmed and edited by his long time partner Thelma Blitz. > > > > Tuli has spent the past 20 or so years selling his cartoons on the > street > > ( me spending many of them with him or directly across the street > selling > > lps and books) and inspiring many of us to not give up despite the > > adversities of government, war and $$$$. He embraced his Beatnik > > lifestyle as a friend once told me I should. He never shrank from > his > > commitment to protest injustice. Never gave into the "MAN". Never > took > > the straight and narrow path. Always fought corporate interests > and a > > greedy, demonic capitalistic value system. > > > > > > > > Long time drummer for the Fugs Coby Batty told me this story on > the phone > > the day Tuli passed that one day while walking in Brooklyn Tuli > turned > > and said that he wanted his epitaph to read "What the hell was > that?" - > > and as he mentioned in one of his perverbs - "Life is funny, you > can > > die." How Jewish can ya get?? > > > > His is survived by his wife, Sylvia Topp, three children, grand > kids. > > > > On Tue, 13 Jul 2010 12:54:16 +0000 Joel Lewis > > writes: > > > >> I knew Pekar before he gained fame as a comic book writer. I > worked > >> in a > >> jazz collectors shop in North Bergen, NJ & he was a legend among > a > >> group of > >> Cleveland jazzbeaus. He would call us up on saturday (our only > real > >> sales > >> day0 & want to speak to my boss, soul jazz producer Bob Porter, > >> about Gene > >> Ammons. > >> > >> Harvey did a fantastic strip called "Local Poet" which is sadly > not > >> in > >> the "best of" volume that came out when the movie was released. > It > >> > >> perfectly captured a local scene (with even a nod to da levy!) & > to > >> the > >> reality of being a working poet. This was characteristic of the > best > >> of his > >> work -- being able to get inside the nuances of everyday lived > life > >> -- > >> another example was "Standing Behind Old Jewish Ladies in the > >> Supermarket > >> Line". he was also an acute observer of racial and ethnic > differnces > >> in a > >> working class community. The best of this stuff is found in the > >> early > >> issues, before Harvey starts appearing on the old Letterman Late, > > >> late show > >> & becomes a bit of a cult object. > >> > >> Hopefully, someone will collect pekar's jazz writings, mostly > >> reviews and, > >> in later years, liner notes. They were honest and informed. > Unlike a > >> lot of > >> older fans, he keep up with jazz currents. I interviewed him for > an > >> article > >> at the time of his "Our Cancer Year". He was telling me about his > > >> interest > >> in John Zorn & the then-rising "downtown scene" & added "I'm > always > >> > >> interested in what's going on NOW." > >> > >> Joel Lewis > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 09:47:21 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pam Brown Subject: thanks - I have double change & Kristin Prevallet contacts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Poeticists, Thanks very much I have double change & Kristin Prevallet contacts now All the best, Pam --=20 ____________________________________ blog : http://thedeletions.blogspot.com website : http://pambrownbooks.blogspot.com/ associate editor : http://jacketmagazine.com/ =A0 =A0 =A0=A0 & continuing with Jacket2 in 2011 _____________________________________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:24:33 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: William James Austin Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed away today at noon please pass on to your lists In-Reply-To: 29172893 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Very sorry to hear this. I spent some time with Ed Sanders many years ago.= I met Tuli on the streets of Soho. He was sitting behind a little sidewa= lk table (Spring Street), selling his poetry. Of course I own the Fugs' re= cordings. When they were appearing at the Cafe Wha, I was a regular perfor= mer a block away at the Cafe Bizarre. Those were great days. So long, Tuli. Write for the sky. William James Austin -----Original Message----- From: mIEKAL aND To: POETICS Sent: Tue, Jul 13, 2010 8:39 am Subject: Re: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg pas= sed away today at noon please pass on to your lists Tuli had parrots? Anyone know what kind? On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Gerald Schwartz w= rote: As the 1st Gulf War broke out I interviewed him live over the air on WRPI.= ..=20 or over an hour... and at one point he said (with his parrots bickering in = the=20 ackground) "You know, this all comes down to Apha apes wanting their ways,= =20 aving their way." Gerald S. ---- Ruth Lepson wrote: > I am, too. I first heard the Fugs in a lobby at Stony Brook around 1967 & > once stood behind Tuli K. in line at the Toronto Zoo. > > > On 7/12/10 4:30 PM, "Thomas savage" wrote: > > > I'm really sorry to hear about this. Tuli has been a part of my life s= ince=20 > > first heard the Fugs live when I was in my teens. So the man who jumpe= d=20 ff > > the > > Brooklyn Bridge but didn't die, according to Ginsberg's great poem, has > > finally > > passed away. He had a long, good life and was a joy to many poets and= =20 ther > > people both with his poems and his drawings. > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: steve dalachinsky > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Sent: Mon, July 12, 2010 5:04:27 AM > > Subject: great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg pas= sed > > away > > today at noon please pass on to your lists > > > > great friend and poet writer anarchist fug tuli kupferberg passed awa= y > > today at noon > > please pass on to your lists > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines=20 > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines=20 > > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es &=20 ub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s &=20 ub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D he Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines = &=20 ub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:44:35 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: 12 or 20 questions with Jessica Smith, http://robmclennansindex.blogspot.com/2009/06/12-or-20-questions-second-series.html rob -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:02:06 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: re tuli funeral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit cemetery for tuli is Greenwood Cemetry is on 5th Ave and 25th Street Brookyn, (kind of Bay Ridge - Bensonhurst but I'm not sure, interdenominational - Henry Ward Beecher, Basquiat and Leonard Bernstein all rest there. > tuli to be funeralized at st marks sat 12-3 then buried and > afterward a > "party" somewhere maybe at st marks ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 00:58:57 -1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Morse Subject: I blog about censorship, representation, and a line by Wallace Stevens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit at http://jonathan-morse.blogspot.com/2010/07/descartes-and-plato-humorists-in.html Jonathan Morse ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:55:22 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: tuli update from family MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit We have arranged to hold a service for Tuli at St. Marks church from 12-3 on Saturday, with a reception following shortly thereafter. We will have a viewing in a separate room at the beginning of the service for anyone who wishes to see him. We are still working on the details for the reception and will let you know shortly. There will be no religious element to the service, and Coby, Steve and Ed will be the main speakers, after which anyone who wants to can talk, sing, recite poetry, or whatever they like. He will be buried at Greenwood cemetery in Brooklyn on Monday morning at 9 am. We will send out another email with more details once we have figured them out, but you are welcome to tell anyone who asks, the funeral is open to whoever wishes to attend. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 10:56:05 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: re tuli funeral MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit update burial on monday reeption and srvice saturday We have arranged to hold a service for Tuli at St. Marks church from 12-3 on Saturday, with a reception following shortly thereafter. We will have a viewing in a separate room at the beginning of the service for anyone who wishes to see him. We are still working on the details for the reception and will let you know shortly. There will be no religious element to the service, and Coby, Steve and Ed will be the main speakers, after which anyone who wants to can talk, sing, recite poetry, or whatever they like. He will be buried at Greenwood cemetery in Brooklyn on Monday morning at 9 am. We will send out another email with more details once we have figured them out, but you are welcome to tell anyone who asks, the funeral is open to whoever wishes to attend. On Wed, 14 Jul 2010 01:02:06 +0530 steve dalachinsky writes: > cemetery for tuli is > > Greenwood Cemetry is on 5th Ave and 25th Street Brookyn, > (kind of Bay Ridge - Bensonhurst but I'm not sure, > interdenominational - Henry Ward Beecher, Basquiat > and Leonard Bernstein all rest there. > > tuli to be funeralized at st marks sat 12-3 then buried and > > afterward a > > "party" somewhere maybe at st marks > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 17:07:13 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Hadbawnik Subject: kadar koli #5 now available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Announcing the new issue of Kadar Koli http://habenichtpress.com/?p=443 Featuring visual art, translation, and poetry by: *Barbara Maloutas*, *Brenda Ijima*, *Roger Snell*, *Nathaniel Mackey*, *Clifton Riley*, *Susan Briante*, *Teresa K. Miller*, *Kim Gek Lin Short*, *Warren Craghead*, *Ammiel Alcalay*, *Eileen Myles*, *Richard Owens*, *Carrie Kaser*, *Jessica Smith*, *Aaron Lowinger*, *Sarah Peters*, *Lisa A. Forrest*, *Michael Kelleher*, *Maria Mazziotti Gillan*, *Sean Reynolds*. Edited by *Micah Robbins* and *David Hadbawnik*. Designed by *Clifton Riley*. $10 plus shipping get your copy today.... --DH ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:49:57 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Karavatos Subject: Re: at Tigress Books in Salem, OR on Thursday, July 15 at 5:30 PM In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 =20 The poet will be accompanied by electronic guitarist Jeff Kelley. =20 =20 =20 Nicholas Karavatos Dept of Language & Literature American University of Sharjah PO Box 26666 Sharjah United Arab Emirates ---------------------------------------- > Date: Mon=2C 12 Jul 2010 21:19:01 +0000 > From: nicholaskaravatos@HOTMAIL.COM > Subject: at Tigress Books in Salem=2C OR on Thursday=2C July 15 at 5:30 P= M > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > > The Third Thursday Poets welcomes Nicholas Karavatos to Tigress Books in = Salem=2C Oregon on July 15 at 5:30pm. > > NICHOLAS KARAVATOS is included in the anthology *Punk Rock Saved My Ass* = (Ukiah: Medusa=92s Muse=2C 2010) and the latest issue of *West Wind Review*= (University of Southern Oregon=2C 2010). In December 2009=2C Amendment Nin= e published his first book titled *No Asylum* (Arcata=2C 2009). http://www.= amazon.com/dp/0984280006/ref=3Dcm_sw_su_dp > > David Meltzer wrote on the back cover: =93Nicholas Karavatos is a poet of= great range and clarity. This book is an amazing collectanea of smart shar= p political poetry in tandem with astute and tender love lyrics. All of it = voiced with an impressive singularity.=94 > > Nicholas Karavatos lives near Dubai=2C teaching at the American Universit= y of Sharjah in the United Arab Emirates. Previously he taught in Muscat=2C= Sultanate of Oman. He is a graduate of New College of California and Humbo= ldt State University. > > https://www.thirdthursdaypoets.org/ > http://www.teapartybookshop.com/ > > Nicholas Karavatos=92 next poetry reading / book-signing is sponsored by = Bay Area Writing Project as part of their series "Writing Teachers Write" a= t the Nomad Caf=E9=2C 6500 Shattuck=2C Oakland=2C CA on Wednesday=2C July 2= 8=2C 2010 at 5:00pm. > > NO ASYLUM is available from these independent booksellers: > Arcata=2C CA =96 Northtown Books > La Jolla=2C CA =96 D.G. Wills Books > Portland=2C OR =96 Powell=92s Books > San Francisco=2C CA =96 Bird & Beckett > San Francisco=2C CA =96 Books & Bookshelves > Venice=2C CA =96 Beyond Baroque > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html = =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 19:37:36 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Video documentation of Netfilmmakers event and talks in Copenhagen last year - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Video documentation of Netfilmmakers event and talks in Copenhagen last year - Gazira Babeli, Lance Shields, myself - check it out - http://www.netfilmmakers.dk/netblog/?p=1333 Thanks to everyone at Netfilmmakers for this! ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 09:44:27 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicholas Ruiz III Subject: Re: What Is a Philosopher? In-Reply-To: <822448.20484.qm@web34202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks - I've a few of Badiou's books - his writing is fairly interesting. I agree - if you're implying that there have never been enough philosophers. And that's one point, I suppose. And we've reached the point of diminishing returns for institutionalized philosophy, and poetics, I imagine. Nick Nicholas Ruiz III, Ph.D NRIII for Congress 2010 http://intertheory.org/nriiiforcongress2010.html ____________________________________ Editor, Kritikos http://intertheory.org ____________________________________ Director, Florida Forum for Social Justice http://intertheory.org/ffsj.htm ________________________________ From: nieuwland jeroen To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 1:55:20 PM Subject: Re: What Is a Philosopher? Nice piece, thanks. You raise this as the most presssing question for our time: "Why is the world failing in its promise of justice for all?" Well what about Badiou to name just one obvious example? He has a radical egalitarian philosophy & is also active politically, involved with the sans papiers in France. Agreed, though, that there are too few philosophers around, in your sense of the word, but were there ever enough? Best, Jeroen ________________________________ From: Nicholas Ruiz III To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 3:49:55 PM Subject: What Is a Philosopher? Kritikos V.7, May-June 2010 What is a Philosopher? http://intertheory.org/philosopher.htm Nicholas Ruiz III, Ph.D NRIII for Congress 2010 http://intertheory.org/nriiiforcongress2010.html ____________________________________ Editor, Kritikos http://intertheory.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Godston Subject: Sounding into World Listening Day MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sounding into World Listening Day Saturday July 17 (10 p.m.) at Brown Rice "Sounding into World Listening Day" is an event that starts on the eve of the first World Listening Day and concludes on World Listening Day. This event is being organized by members of the World Listening Project. The purposes of World Listening Day are: . to celebrate the practice of listening as it relates to the world around us, environmental awareness, and acoustic ecology; . to raise awareness about issues related to the World Soundscape Project, World Listening Project, World Forum for Acoustic Ecology, and individual and group efforts to creatively explore phonography; . and to design and implement educational initiatives which explore these concepts and practices. performers / performances will include: excerpted performance of Staring at Walls, a play by Spencer Hutchinson Alpha Bruton -- Vibrational Sound Narratives Projection Jayve Montgomery -- reeds, electronics Mojdeh Stoakley -- audio Alex Wing -- upright bass, guitar Jennifer Mosier -- electronics Norman Long -- electronics Paul Hartsaw -- tenor saxophone Dan Godston -- trumpet, poetry Kai Kraatz -- electronics Bill Whitmer -- amplified banjo Audio contributed by other World Listening Day participants around the world will be integrated into the performance. This includes contributions by DJ Spooky and other individuals, as well as audio which will be streaming live from locations around the world. $10 suggested donation / sliding scale Brown Rice 4432 N. Kedzie Ave., 1st floor Chicago, IL 60625 www.brownricemusic.org http://www.worldlisteningproject.org/?p=667 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:45:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: OIl at 3:25 p.m. Today... Comments: To: "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News & Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As of 3:25 p.m. TODAY the oil flow has supposedly stopped -- http://abcnews.go.com/WN/gulf-oil-spill-bps-cap-success-oil-stops/story?id=11173330 But the poems have not -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet + http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/ Poets for Living Waters + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ ******** ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:43:53 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: CA Conrad Subject: NYC Chinatown poetry... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 NYC Chinatown (Soma)tic Poetry Workshop, all details here: http://myforehead.blogspot.com/ I'm looking forward to this! CAConrad -- PhillySound: new poetry http://PhillySound.blogspot.com THE BOOK OF FRANK by CAConrad http://CAConrad.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:30:07 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "King Amour" by Jack Foley Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is "King Amour" by Jack Foley. Description:=20 Jack Foley=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CKing Amour=E2=80=9D are amour-plated adventur= es that take the rider on a fifty-year journey in a soi-disant con-sciousne= ss that takes itself serially and postulates both pos and impostures in a g= rand, grad granulation of mic and picturation. The Kong is dead, but the Ko= nig kicks. Who but Amour would dorothy these ravings? As the great, inspiri= ng, and possibly loony Samuel Greenberg wrote, =E2=80=9CThe blue, faded pur= ple, horizon mount / Seemed to bellow the valleys in mists / Of enriching, = ensuing, divine shadowings... / Where may this be? Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/king-amour/11781047 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:34:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Christophe Casamassima Subject: Dialogue's End: Chris McCreary & Marthe Reed Inter[Re]View each other MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dialogue's End is a locus for interview, reviews, views... http://thedialoguesend.blogspot.com/ This week's feature centers around Chris McCreary's new Furniture Press Books title, Undone: a fakebook, and Marthe Reed's Black Radish Books title, Gaze... Next up, Emily Carr and David Wolach... ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:57:49 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Comments: RFC822 error: Invalid RFC822 field - "sharp, so much on". Rest of header flushed. From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Reading Report: D McNaughton & L Kearney Comments: cc: UK POETRY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bullets into the dark - so well crafted; tender, =0Asharp, so much on=20 target: Lawrence Kearney & Duncan McNaughton at=0A Books &=20 Bookshelves (SF) last night, the darkness in the psychic =0Aeaves. To my=20 knowledge, nothing quite like it in Contemp. Am. =0APoetry. Poe in hand=20 & much else unveiling the historic & =0Apresent street, here &=20 wars abroad, the Papacy included. Tar dark =0Ashivers. Terrific.If unfamili= ar, suggest looking for their books!=20 Stephen Vincent thttp://stephenvincent.net/blog/ New piece/=A0 Paris: Ellsworth Kelly, C Brancusi, the Mali gazelle, & the staircase shadow (pix inclu)=20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 23:57:59 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Interview with Norman Fischer at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interview with Norman Fischer at The Argotist Online: Excerpt: "First, no one needs me to write, there are enough great writers already. S= econd, I must do this, and will always fail, yet this doesn=E2=80=99t matte= r. I will continue to believe that I will get it right the next time and th= is belief will keep me going. It strikes me that writing (at least writing = as I view it, experimental--if that is the word, though I am sure it is not= --writing) is a faith. An irrational faith. Really, it is a religion for wr= iters, writing. Writing, you feel whole. Not writing, you feel sinful, unho= ly, incomplete, guilty, not right. Even if no one is paying money or attent= ion, and you are not getting anywhere at all, you have to do it. I was thin= king this the other day, talking to the many good friends, poets, who were = at Leslie Scalapino=E2=80=99s funeral, a full on Zen Buddhist funeral at wh= ich I was officiating: that religion is essentially an imaginative practice= . As writing is. It=E2=80=99s not =E2=80=9Creal=E2=80=9D in the sense we c= ommonly use that word. Writing is also not real. And yet it is essential." http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Fischer%20interview.htm =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:08:42 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jen Tynes Subject: Call for submissions: Horse Less Review #8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 From now until August 15, horse less press will be accepting submissions for horse less review #8. please send 3-10 pages of text to horselesssubmissions@gmail.com. We prefer all pieces to be collected in one Word or RTF or PDF attached file. To get a sense of what we're into, check out the archives: http://www.horselesspress.com/horselessreview.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 01:14:26 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: OIl at 3:25 p.m. Today... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hooray but it's just a band aid right now On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:45:57 -0700 amy king writes: > As of 3:25 p.m. TODAY the oil flow has supposedly stopped > > -- > http://abcnews.go.com/WN/gulf-oil-spill-bps-cap-success-oil-stops/story?i d=11173330 > > > > But the poems have not -- http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > > > > ******** > Poetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet > + > http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publis hing-the-internet/ > > > > > > Poets for Living Waters > + http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ > ******** > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:59:29 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: my short piece about tuli on line MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The piece is now up: http://blogs.forward.com/the-arty-semite/. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 14:05:35 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: CONTEXT, Volume 13, Number 1, March 2010 Comments: To: ederi , USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com, obodooha@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The current issue of *CONTEXT: Journal of Social & Cultural Studies * (ISSN 1119 -- 9229) is now available. Contributors to this edition are: Jen Westmoreland Bouchard, John M. Bennett, Judith E. Johnson, Ayo Kehinde, Sarala Krishnamurthy, Biko Agozino, Tim Mayo, Francis Raven, Ifeyinwa Okolo, Alexander Kure, Sule E. Egya, Abdullahi M. Ashafa, Mukhtar U. Bunza, and Musa Idris Okpanachi. -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 21:23:27 -0500 Reply-To: dgodston@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Godston Subject: World Listening Day at the Chicago Underground Library MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit World Listening Day at the Chicago Underground Library Sunday, July 18 (2 p.m.) You are invited to come to a World Listening Day event that is being hosted by the Chicago Underground Library -- * a soundwalk that happens inside the building and around the neighborhood * a performance led by composer and instrument builder Douglas Ewart * a listening party, with field recordings being played. Participants will include Eric Leonardson, Fereshteh Toosi, Norman Long, Jimmy Bennington, Dan Godston, and other TBA individuals. This event is being organized by the Midwest Society for Acoustic Ecology. It is free and open to the public, BYOB, bring your own food! Chicago Underground Library -- 621 W. Belmont, 2nd Floor, Chicago, http://underground-library.org World Listening Day -- http://www.worldlisteningproject.org/?p=667 Midwest Society for Acoustic Ecology -- http://mwsae.org/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 12:56:34 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CBrainiography=E2=80=9D_?= by Evelyn Posamentier Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CBrainiography=E2=80=9D by Ev= elyn Posamentier Description: In =E2=80=9CBrainiography=E2=80=9D Evelyn Posamentier creates a dreamscape = in which objects become animate and humans objectified, both inhabiting a m= arginal realm between physical and virtual dimensions. In language that is = neither pre-modern nor postmodern, a compelling narrative brings language t= o a turning point. Here is poetry responsive to encounters with world and t= echnology=E2=80=94brutal and immediate. A new form of witness. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/brainiography/11786920 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:39:42 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: Jake Berry and Chris Mansel in Conversation at The Argotist Online Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jake Berry and Chris Mansel in Conversation =20 =E2=80=9CThere is still great poetry sneaking out as pop music because that= 's the medium in which it is performed. It's a long list and everyone that = really loves popular music and devotes time to listening to it will know im= mediately what I'm talking about. When I use the term popular music, I mean= all the music that has been popular in terms of a large audience (compared= to other forms like classical, avant-garde, art song and so forth) over th= e last century as recording technology has made music available to everyone= . =20 There's no small amount of modernism in pop music either. But you rarely he= ar people complain about the difficulty of a Radiohead lyric for instance, = or the obscurity of Beck's references. People talk about the words. They re= cognize them as being more abstract, but that isn't a problem. There are mi= llions of people walking around singing lyrics that are open to as many int= erpretations as there are listeners and few have a problem with this. =20 Does the fact that you can sing an obscure bit of poetry make it better som= ehow than reading it in a book? Maybe it does. Maybe someone should set The= Maximus Poems to a nice backbeat, mix in a heavy bass line and some nice g= uitar licks. I bet if a successful artist did that and didn't call any atte= ntion to the fact, beyond the essential permission notice buried in the cre= dits, we'd have people all over the world singing Olson.=E2=80=9D =20 http://www.argotistonline.co.uk/Berry%20interview.htm =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:48:18 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is 'Light as a Fetter' by Chris Stroffol= ino Description: Chris Stroffolino=E2=80=99s 'Light as a Fetter' is a collection of poems in= spired by Cliffs Notes, which John Ashbery has described as =E2=80=98carele= ssly brilliant=E2=80=99. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/light-as-a-fetter/11787261 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 09:40:06 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Finnegan Subject: Gloucester Writers House In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" GLOUCESTER WRITERS CENTER Contact: henry.ferrini@verizon.net or 978-281-2355 (Peter Anastas, Charles Olson and Vincent Ferrini, left to right, at 126 East Main Street c.1965. Mark Power photograph) Gloucester may soon be home to a new cultural and literary center. When Gloucester=E2=80=99s Poet Laureate Vincent Ferrini died on Christmas= Eve 2007, many of his friends in Gloucester and around the world hoped his house could be pu= rchased and turned into a center where artistic activities could be shared with the co= mmunity. Today this idea is very close to becoming a reality. Plans are progressing to establish The Gloucester Writers Center at the Fe= rrini house in Gloucester, Massachusetts. This former home of Vincent Ferrini (1913-2007)= lies across the harbor from Charles Olson=E2=80=99s (1910-1970) 28 Fort Square home.= These two poets, known as the consciences of our city for over half a century, wrote about= Gloucester with enlightened passion and energy. Organizers of this project believe it is= only fitting that a place that honors their work and keeps their vision alive be established. Since Ferrini=E2=80=99s death Paul Sawyer, an old friend of Vincent=E2=80= =99s who lives in California, has been advocating for the purchase of the house. This spring, Sawyer, a Unit= arian- Universalist Minister, called Vincent=E2=80=99s nephew filmmaker Henry Fer= rini to report that he has Pancreatic Cancer and has been given a year to live. With that time he= wanted to put his energy toward helping to create a Vincent Ferrini/ Charles Olson Write= rs Center at Vincent=E2=80=99s East Main Street studio. The poet=E2=80=99s nephew was= moved by Reverend Sawyer=E2=80=99s decision. =E2=80=9CHis decision has motivated many people close to Vincent, Charles= and Paul to work toward creating an innovative educational and cultural organization= that will be a lasting asset to Gloucester.=E2=80=9D Ferrini said. To date the group has raised $84,900 toward the purchase price of $100,000= . According to Ferrini, the timing and situation for this project couldn=E2= =80=99t be better.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9C Raising the $100,000 means we=E2=80=99ll be mortgage free and ta= x-exempt, an enviable position for any organization. The Center can live on in perpetuity with= out much overhead. Plus 2010 is Charles Olson=E2=80=99s Centenary,=E2=80=9D he says= , =E2=80=9Cand attention is focused on Olson and Gloucester.=E2=80=9D The group hopes that by the time Gloucester celebrates Olson=E2=80=99s cen= tenary in October the house will be open to tour. Tax-deductible contributions for= the establishing of the Ferrini Olson Writers Center can be made to the Charle= s Olson Society and sent to Henry Ferrini, 5 Wall Street, Gloucester, MA 01930 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 16:50:15 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is Light as a Fetter by Chris Stroffolino Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is 'Light as a Fetter' by Chris Stroffol= ino. Description: Chris Stroffolino=E2=80=99s 'Light as a Fetter' is a collection of poems in= spired by Cliffs Notes, which John Ashbery has described as "carelessly bri= lliant".. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/product/ebook/light-as-a-fetter/11787261 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 11:57:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Brian Seabolt Subject: Raft Magazine: call for new work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Raft,=A0a new online literary journal, is currently accepting submissions. Please click http://www.raftmagazineonline.com=A0for our mission statement and contact information. --=20 _______________________________________________ Search for products and services at:=20 http://search.mail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:14:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ruth Lepson Subject: Re: Gloucester Writers House In-Reply-To: <8CCF3CCB369609E-1A84-82FB@webmail-d057.sysops.aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I'm there! On 7/17/10 9:40 AM, "Jim Finnegan" wrote: > GLOUCESTER WRITERS CENTER > Contact: henry.ferrini@verizon.net or 978-281-2355 > (Peter Anastas, Charles Olson and Vincent Ferrini, left to right, > at 126 East Main Street c.1965. Mark Power photograph) >=20 > Gloucester may soon be home to a new cultural and literary center. >=20 > When Gloucester=B9s Poet Laureate Vincent Ferrini died on Christmas Eve 200= 7, > many of > his friends in Gloucester and around the world hoped his house could be > purchased and > turned into a center where artistic activities could be shared with the > community. Today > this idea is very close to becoming a reality. >=20 > Plans are progressing to establish The Gloucester Writers Center at the > Ferrini house in > Gloucester, Massachusetts. This former home of Vincent Ferrini (1913-2007= ) > lies across > the harbor from Charles Olson=B9s (1910-1970) 28 Fort Square home. These tw= o > poets, > known as the consciences of our city for over half a century, wrote about > Gloucester with > enlightened passion and energy. Organizers of this project believe it is = only > fitting that a > place that honors their work and keeps their vision alive be established. >=20 > Since Ferrini=B9s death Paul Sawyer, an old friend of Vincent=B9s who lives i= n > California, has > been advocating for the purchase of the house. This spring, Sawyer, a > Unitarian- > Universalist Minister, called Vincent=B9s nephew filmmaker Henry Ferrini to > report that he > has Pancreatic Cancer and has been given a year to live. With that time h= e > wanted to put > his energy toward helping to create a Vincent Ferrini/ Charles Olson Writ= ers > Center at > Vincent=B9s East Main Street studio. The poet=B9s nephew was moved by Reveren= d > Sawyer=B9s > decision. >=20 > =B3His decision has motivated many people close to Vincent, Charles and Pau= l to > work toward creating an innovative educational and cultural organization = that > will be a > lasting asset to Gloucester.=B2 Ferrini said. >=20 > To date the group has raised $84,900 toward the purchase price of $100,00= 0. > According to Ferrini, the timing and situation for this project couldn=B9t = be > better.=B2 >=20 > =B3 Raising the $100,000 means we=B9ll be mortgage free and tax-exempt, an > enviable > position for any organization. The Center can live on in perpetuity with = out > much > overhead. Plus 2010 is Charles Olson=B9s Centenary,=B2 he says, =B3and attentio= n is > focused on > Olson and Gloucester.=B2 >=20 > The group hopes that by the time Gloucester celebrates Olson=B9s centenary = in > October the house will be open to tour. Tax-deductible contributions for = the > establishing of the Ferrini Olson Writers Center can be made to the Charl= es > Olson > Society and sent to Henry Ferrini, 5 Wall Street, Gloucester, MA 01930 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 00:25:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Camille Martin Subject: New @ Rogue Embryo: Monty Reid's phantom settlement + passion flowers, Gulf fritillaries, and cultural exoticism Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 New @ Rogue Embryo * Passion Flowers, Gulf Fritillary Butterfies, and Cultural Exocitism http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com/2010/07/17/passion-flowers-gulf-friti= llary-butterflies-and-cultural-exoticism/ * Monty Reid=92s The Luskville Reductions: Poems from a Phantom Settlement http://rogueembryo.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/monty-reids-the-luskville-= reductions-poems-from-a-phantom-settlement/ Cheers! Camille Martin Sonnets: http://www.shearsman.com/pages/books/catalog/2010/martin.html Codes of Public Sleep : http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781897388112/codes-of-public-sleep.aspx =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:07:36 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeff Davis Subject: Fwd: 2nd Annual Re-Viewing Black Mountain College Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This in from the Black Mountain College Museum + Arts Center: The July 31st Deadline for Proposals is Approaching! 2nd Annual Re-Viewing Black Mountain College Conference October 8-10, 2010 The legacy of Black Mountain College continues to influence contemporary culture in multiple realms. This conference aims to investigate its history as well as the multiple paths of influence, actual and possible, identifiable in the contemporary world and beyond. Co-hosted by The Black Mountain College Museum + Arts Center and the University of North Carolina at Asheville Keynote Speaker: Kenneth Snelson Kenneth Snelson is a major American sculptor with work in collections including the Metropolitan Museum of Art, MOMA, the Whitney Museum of American Art, the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis, the Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden in Washington, D.C., museums in Holland, Australia, Japan and Germany and public art commissions all over the world. He also holds several U.S. patents. Snelson was a student at Black Mountain College in the summers of 1948 and 1949, where he worked closely with Buckminster Fuller, and where he discovered the principle known as "tensegrity". Known primarily for his gravity defying sculptures, Snelson is also an accomplished photographer with a particular interest in panoramic photographs. The recent publication Kenneth Snelson: Forces Made Visible traces this important artist's five-decade career. Papers, performances, multi-media and panel proposals in all relevant disciplines are welcome. Abstracts of 400-600 words should be submitted to Brian Butler (bbutler@unca.edu) by July 31, 2010. Notification will be made by August 28, 2010. (I'm hoping for some good panels on Olson, myself) On the web at http://naturespoetry.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 13:35:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: Poems & Pictures Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable POEMS & PICTURES Curated by Kyle Schlesinger Center for Book Arts 28 West 27th Street, 3rd Floor New York City July 7, 2010 - September 11, 2010 Poems and Pictures:=A0A Renaissance in the Art of the Book (1946 - 1981)=A0examines relationships between visual and language art. The exhibit features over 60 books produced between 1946 and 1981, as well as paintings= , collages, periodicals, and ephemera. Poets, artists and collaborators include John Ashbery, Asa Benveniste, Bill Berkson, Wallace Berman, Joe Brainard, Frances Butler, Robert Creeley, Jim Dine, Johanna Drucker, Kenwar= d Elmslie, Ted Greenwald, Philip Guston, Alastair Johnston, RB Kitaj, Joanne Kyger, Henry Miller, Michael Myers, Frank O=B9Hara, Ron Padgett, Kenneth Patchen, Tom Raworth, Larry Rivers, George Schneeman, Holbrook Teter, Wes Wilson, and many more. The exhibition concludes with corresponding works by emerging artists and writers such as Charles Alexander, Aaron Cohick, Karen Randall, and Emily McVarish. &=20 Don=B9t miss the panel discussion featuring painter Trevor Winkfield, poet Miles Champion and publisher of Granary Books Steve Clay. Moderated by Michael Basinski, poet and curator of the Poetry Collection at the University at Buffalo. Wednesday, July 28th=A0@ 6:30pm=A0 A comprehensive catalog will be available in August. Reserve your copy by writing to info@centerforbookarts http://www.centerforbookarts.org/exhibits/.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 00:08:36 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Noah Eli Gordon Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovative= writing=2C one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be flown to the U= niversity of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011. =20 Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to 100= pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an SASE for= notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for complete guid= elines. Send to Subito Press=2C English Department=2C Hellems 101=2C 226 U= CB=2C Boulder=2C Colorado=2C 80309-0226. Former students=2C friends and rel= atives of UCB faculty are ineligible. =20 =20 Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th=2C 2010 (postmark= date). =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:15:04 +1000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Young Subject: Now out from Otoliths=?windows-1252?Q?=97=22Expanding_?= The Radius" by Mary Ellen Derwis & Joe Balaz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Expanding The Radius* Mary Ellen Derwis & Joe Balaz 72 pages, full color Otoliths, 2010 ISBN: 978-0-9807651-0-6 $24.95 (currently with free postage in the U.S.) URL: http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/expanding-the-radius/11020602 Early on in *Expanding The Radius*, Mary Ellen Derwis gives us an untitled narrative sequence of digital art, hinting at the human form, which picks u= p again towards the end of the book in a more figurative sequence=97 =93Rendezvous=94. Intimate portraits, wider anthropological insights, and o= ther strongly titled art also prevail. Among other tightly woven directives, Jo= e Balaz includes multi-paged narrations =93High in Blue=94, =93Fairly Textual= =94, and =93The Industrial Poet=94. Then there are the collaborations which find a distinct third voice, as often happens when two people are so creatively in synch. The book ends with two of Mary Ellen=92s urban shots that include typographical symbols and a similar photo, a final pun by Joe=97 =93C and Leave=94. Many of these images have appeared separately in the quarterly =93Otoliths=94; now it=92s a pleasure to see/read this combined three heade= d body of always direct, sometimes humorous, often profound digital art, visual poetry, and collaborations. =97*C. Mehrl Bennett* & a reminder that the full Otoliths catalog, which includes Paul Siegell, Nick Piombino, Sheila Murphy, Adam Fieled, Martin Edmond, Eileen Tabios, Nico Vassilakis, Spencer Selby, Denise Duhamel & Sandy McIntosh, Anny Ballardini, Geof Huth, & many more authors, can be found at The Otoliths Storefront . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 14:54:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: sam truitt Subject: Wolsak's SQUEEZED LIGHT.... Review Copies Available MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Station Hill announces the fall publication of: Squeezed Light: Collected Poems 1994-2005 by Lissa Wolsak Lissa Wolsak, a poet who seemingly emerged fully-formed in the mid-1990s, now offers access to the realized body of her work in this collection. Neither easily classified nor directly traceable to a particular school or lineage, she stands instead within her own continuously evolving context=97= one as free of convention and fashion as it is independent of thought outside the work itself. =93The mirror would do well to reflect further,=94 demands= Jean Cocteau=92s Orphic radio voice, and Wolsak=92s poetry answers to this stran= ge admonition: For the self-reflective moment in her work takes us far beyond familiar literary practices of self-attention and recursive discourse. Agai= n and again this work reaches a genuinely mysterious interpenetration of vivi= d awareness, renewed language, and human care. SQUEEZED LIGHT includes all of Wolsak=92s previously published poetry to da= te, her essay in poetics =93An Heuristic Prolusion,=94 an interview with the au= thor, and an introductory essay by George Quasha with Charles Stein. For a PDF of SQUEEZED LIGHT for review consideration, please email publishers@stationhill.org All past poets, in particular, Pound and Zukofsky, were not porous enough. Lissa Wolsak subtends as egregiously porous. She pours tenacious slipperiness every which way=97how very yes. =97Madeline Gins It=92s not that Lissa Wolsak=92s words are made up, but that the words have= made up a relation between themselves that is of the author. In order for isolat= e words to be continuous =93acts of symmetry,=94 they are =93to move through = that silence which linear language admits, its lack of fullness, its utter necessity.=94 Her words are this non-random arising in necessity. =97Leslie Scalapino I am still learning to read Lissa Wolsak=97an immensely entertaining and demanding project. I am being reeducated in the pleasures of using the dictionary to discover how awareness of the roots and branches of words tightens their hold on the world. =97Charles Altieri ISBN 978-1-58177-116-9 1-58177-116-9 Publication September 1, 2010 Pages 288 Size 6.00 x 9.00 in. Price $21.95 Binding Paperback ____________________________________ Sam Truitt Managing Director Station Hill Press of Barrytown 120 Station Hill Road Barrytown, NY 12507 O-845-758-5293 C-518-817-8725 www.stationhill.org =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:53:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with rad= ical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do nothing = more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity culture by pa= rticipating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions engineered expre= ssly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a competitive rather t= han cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, competition and cooperation a= re in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclusive).=20 but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could weed ou= t a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and otherwise) = would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win?=A0=A0=20 Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Charles I= ves was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity."=20 &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of cultural p= olitics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of submission. = it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly "submit" to = editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of recognizing prod= uctive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. & it's even more reprehensible= when editors create a situation that expects others to "submit." man, for = people so attuned to the complexities and the ideological underpinnings of = language i find it utterly astounding that so many gleefully accept that la= nguage of submission and the practice of competition.=A0 =A0=20 but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right? & so lo= ng as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class politic= s in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry abt how the = practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce the logic that= guarantees inequality and injustice.=20 =A0=A0=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: From: Noah Eli Gordon Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovative= writing, one each of fiction and poetry.=A0 Winners will be flown to the U= niversity of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011. =20 Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to 100= pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an SASE for= notification of results.=A0 Please see www.subitopress.org for complete gu= idelines.=A0 Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems 101, 226 UCB= , Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and relatives of = UCB faculty are ineligible.=A0=20 =20 Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postmark d= ate). =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0= =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:14:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry": http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. Enjoy. Adam ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:51:10 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: 4000 WORDS 4000 DEAD: call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 4000 WORDS 4000 DEAD call for submissions "I want to start with the milestone today of 4,000=20 dead in Iraq. Americans. And just what effect=20 do you think it has on the country?" -- Martha Raddatz,=20 ABC News' White House correspondent=20 to Dick Cheney in 2008 Jennifer Karmin has been collecting 4000 WORDS for the over 4000 DEAD Ameri= cans in Iraq. All words are being used to create a public poem. During str= eet performances, she gives away these words to passing pedestrians. Submi= ssions are ongoing as the Iraq War continues and the number of dead grows. = Send 1-10 words with subject 4000 WORDS to jkarmin@yahoo.com. Sponsored by: NOT CONTENT A series of text projects curated by Les Figues Press=20 as part of Los Angeles Contemporary Exhibitions year-long initiative Public Interest http://www.notcontent.lesfigues.com UNNATURAL ACTS July 21-August 11 Los Angeles, California Taking its name from the historic collaborative writing marathons led by Be= rnadette Mayer and others in NYC during 1972-73, Unnatural Acts will explor= e the themes of hunger, war, and desire through public acts of collaboratio= n. =20 Beginning with two days of installation and performance by Amina Cain and J= ennifer Karmin, a group of eleven writers/artists will gather on the third = day to write together over the course of eight hours. In a daily ritual in= augurated on the fourth day, the outline of a new person=E2=80=99s body wil= l be traced onto the bodies of text until the exhibit closes on August 11th= . ALL EVENTS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC - 6522 Hollywood Blvd http://www.welcometolace.org/events/view/unnatural-acts July 21: Amina Cain=20 Installation (12-5) Hunger Texts Read in the Dark performance (5-5:30pm)=20 July 22: Jennifer Karmin Installation (12-5) 4000 Words 4000 Dead street performance (5-6pm)=20 July 23: Unnatural Acts 8 hours of collaborative writing (12-8pm) Collaborators include: Harold Abramowitz, Tisa Bryant, Amina Cain, Teresa C= armody, Saehee Cho, Kate Durbin, K. Lorraine Graham, Jennifer Karmin, Laida= Lertxundi, India Radfar, and Mark Wallace. July 24: Presentations Artists=E2=80=99 Talk (2-3pm) Collaborative Reading (4-6pm) Readers include: Harold Abramowitz, Tisa Bryant, Amina Cain, Teresa Carmody= , Kate Durbin, K. Lorraine Graham, Jennifer Karmin, India Radfar, and Mark = Wallace. AMINA CAIN is the author of the short story collection I Go To Some Hollow = (Les Figues Press, 2009), and a forthcoming chapbook, Tramps Everywhere (In= sert Press/PARROT SERIES). A recording of her story =E2=80=9CAttached to a= Self=E2=80=9D was included in the group show A Diamond in the Mud at Liter= aturhaus Basel in Switzerland in 2008; other work has appeared in publicati= ons such as 3rd Bed, Action Yes, Denver Quarterly, onedit, Sidebrow, and Wr= eckage of Reason: Xxperimental Prose by Women Writers. She lives in Los An= geles. http://aminacain.com JENNIFER KARMIN's text-sound epic, Aaaaaaaaaaalice, was published by Flim F= orum Press in 2010. She curates the Red Rover Series and is co-founder of t= he public art group Anti Gravity Surprise. Her multidisciplinary projects = have been presented across the U.S., Japan, and Kenya. A proud member of th= e Dusie Kollektiv, she is the author of the Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disem= bodying Katrina. Walking Poem, a collaborative street project, is featured = online at How2. In Chicago, Jennifer teaches creative writing to immigrants= at Truman College and works as a Poet-in-Residence for the public schools.= =20 http://aaaaaaaaaaalice.blogspot.com =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:47:28 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Francesco Levato Subject: Call for Submissions: Atlanta Review - Italy Issue Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Atlanta Review seeks submissions of Italian poetry translated into English for an upcoming issue focused on Italy. Please send 3-5 unpublished poetry translations, via email, as an attachment, to the address below. Submissions should be in Microsoft Word format, 12 point type. Please include your name and contact email, as well as the original title and author in your submission. And though only the English version will appear in Atlanta Review, please include the original language version of each poem. Deadline: submissions must be received by September 15th, 2010 Send submissions to: Francesco Levato poet@francescolevato.com Please put Atlanta Review and your name in the subject line. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:09:13 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Brian Seabolt Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" =A0it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. Who? ______________________________ =20 While he read Moll held a little aloof, with downcast eyes, saying to herself, Now he's at the part where, and a little later, Now he's at the part where, and so remained until the rustle of the sheet going back into the envelope announced that he had finished. =20 Samuel Beckett, Malone Dies______________________________ --=20 _______________________________________________ Search for products and services at:=20 http://search.mail.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:12:57 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jessica Wickens Subject: New Issue of Monday Night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Announcing *Issue 9 of **Monday Night* in print and online editions! *Including poetry, fiction, and things in-between from: *Ben Bellizi, Joe Celizic, Amber DiPietra, Steffi Drewes, Israel Francisco Haros, Colin James, Dan Moreau, Joa Suorez, Elizabeth Terrazas, Marissa Bell Toffoli, Noah Uitermark, & Della Watson Order a print copy today for $3 or read it online at *Monday Night :* because new lit beats old TV any night of the week. Also available soon in these fine bookstores: Diesel (Oakland), City Lights(SF), Quimby's (Chicago), & Pegasus(Berkeley). ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:58:07 +1200 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lisa Samuels Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <61254.93942.qm@web33404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you Richard for expressing your clear principles concerning prize culture and languages of 'submission'. With warmth and respect I note that the latter part of your message might get a little away from that message - I see no need to suggest editorial incompetence in order to make points about competition and the politics of speech acts. And I can't make an easy equation between competition and acceptable topics for poetry & critical work. But I do concur with your points about competitiveness and the 'submit' button. About prize culture especially I agree - universites love to have their workers win prizes, and it is a challenge to find ways of opting out of submitting to prizes. Part of that resistance involves, at least for me, reminding my employers, locally, of the kind of work I do, aspire to do, and value from others. And creating and participating in contexts for cooperation, which are sometimes local - like the current trans-Tasman Home & Away events we're doing here this year - and sometimes as wide as this list is long. Warm regards, Lisa On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:53 AM, richard owens w= rote: > for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with r= adical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do nothin= g more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity culture by = participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions engineered exp= ressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a competitive rather= than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, competition and cooperation= are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclusive). > > but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could weed = out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and otherwise= ) would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? > > Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Charles= Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." > > &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of cultural= politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of submission= . it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly "submit" t= o editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of recognizing pr= oductive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. & it's even more reprehensib= le when editors create a situation that expects others to "submit." man, fo= r people so attuned to the complexities and the ideological underpinnings o= f language i find it utterly astounding that so many gleefully accept that = language of submission and the practice of competition. > > but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right? & so = long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class polit= ics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry abt how th= e practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce the logic th= at guarantees inequality and injustice. > > > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 > > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog > > --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > > From: Noah Eli Gordon > Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM > > 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovati= ve writing, one each of fiction and poetry.=A0 Winners will be flown to the= University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011. > > Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to 1= 00 pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an SASE f= or notification of results.=A0 Please see www.subitopress.org for complete = guidelines.=A0 Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems 101, 226 U= CB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and relatives o= f UCB faculty are ineligible. > > Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postmark= date). > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox= . > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:23:23 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Kimmelman, Burt" Subject: Kimmelman et al. Readings in Pacific Northwest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please come if you are nearby to these upcoming readings (listed below) in = late July and August 1st. Burt Kimmelman (poetry) and Diane Simmons (fiction) 7/26, 5 PM Pilot Books www.pilotbooksseattle.com Upstairs 219 Broadway E Seattle, WA 98102 (206) 229-7181 Burt Kimmelman (poetry), Diane Simmons (fiction), Lyn Coffin (poetry) 7/27, 7 PM Makeda Coffee www.makedacoffee.com 153 North 78th Street Seattle, WA 98103-4607 (206) 782-1489 info@makedacoffee.com Burt Kimmelman (poetry), Diane Simmons (fiction), Lyn Coffin (drama) 7/28, 7 PM Nordic Museum 3014 NW 67th Street Seattle, WA 98117 Burt Kimmelman and Rob Schlegel 8/1, 7:30 PM Spare Room Reading Series at the Concordia Coffee House 2909 NE Alberta St Portland OR 97211 (503) 810-2279 concordiacoffeehouse.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:55:20 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Jo Malo Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Wonderful essay, Adam. Romantic Deconstructionist poetry is a possibility. I've come to believe the words 'soul' and 'spirit' aren't offensive as much as inadequate for describing our encounter with the infinite. Mary Jo -- http://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/ http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:18:03 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: John Latta Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <61254.93942.qm@web33404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-745680382-780168617-1279563483=:7679" This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---745680382-780168617-1279563483=:7679 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Bravo, Rich. Freshest blast unleash'd here in career-boost central since=20 the end of the Eisenhower administration, at least! JL On Sun, 18 Jul 2010, richard owens wrote: > for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with r= adical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do nothin= g more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity culture by = participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions engineered exp= ressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a competitive rather= than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, competition and cooperation= are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclusive). > > but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could weed = out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and otherwise= ) would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win?=A0=A0 > > Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Charles= Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." > > &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of cultural= politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of submission= =2E it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly "submit"= to editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of recognizing = productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. & it's even more reprehens= ible when editors create a situation that expects others to "submit." man, = for people so attuned to the complexities and the ideological underpinnings= of language i find it utterly astounding that so many gleefully accept tha= t language of submission and the practice of competition.=A0 =A0 > > but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right? & so = long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class polit= ics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry abt how th= e practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce the logic th= at guarantees inequality and injustice. > =A0=A0 > > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 > > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog > > --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > > From: Noah Eli Gordon > Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM > > 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovati= ve writing, one each of fiction and poetry.=A0 Winners will be flown to the= University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011. > > Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to 1= 00 pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an SASE f= or notification of results.=A0 Please see www.subitopress.org for complete = guidelines.=A0 Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems 101, 226 U= CB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and relatives o= f UCB faculty are ineligible.=A0 > > Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postmark= date). =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0 > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox= =2E > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ---745680382-780168617-1279563483=:7679-- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:31:21 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Many thanks. And I hope that transc= =A0=A0=A0=A0 Mary Jo,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 Many thanks. And I hope that transc= endentalism will be channeled into many =0Aof our poems as well.=0A=0A=A0= =A0=A0=A0 Adam=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Mary = Jo Malo =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: M= on, July 19, 2010 1:55:20 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in P= oetry"=0A=0AWonderful essay, Adam. Romantic Deconstructionist poetry is a p= ossibility.=0AI've come to believe the words 'soul' and 'spirit' aren't off= ensive as much=0Aas inadequate for describing our encounter with the infini= te.=0A=0AMary Jo=0A=0A-- =0Ahttp://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/=0Ahttp://= apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guid= elines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:01:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <61254.93942.qm@web33404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one of the first recommendations = I give young writers is never ever to enter such "small reading fee" = competitions as they are by their nature scam affairs, no matter how hip = and experimental they claim to be. Basic capitalist exploitation. Right = on Richard. =97 Pierre On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote: > for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves = with radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) = do nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity = culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions = engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a = competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, = competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually = exclusive).=20 >=20 > but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could = weed out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and = otherwise) would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? = =20 >=20 > Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." = Charles Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity."=20= >=20 > &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of = cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of = submission. it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so = willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as = capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. = & it's even more reprehensible when editors create a situation that = expects others to "submit." man, for people so attuned to the = complexities and the ideological underpinnings of language i find it = utterly astounding that so many gleefully accept that language of = submission and the practice of competition. =20 >=20 > but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right? & = so long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class = politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry = abt how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce = the logic that guarantees inequality and injustice.=20 > =20 >=20 > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 >=20 > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog >=20 > --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon = wrote: >=20 > From: Noah Eli Gordon > Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM >=20 > 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of = innovative writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be = flown to the University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the = spring of 2011. >=20 > Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up = to 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an = SASE for notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for = complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems = 101, 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends = and relatives of UCB faculty are ineligible. =20 >=20 > Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 = (postmark date). =20 > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your = inbox. > = http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:= ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris =20 cell phone: 518 225 7123 = =20 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:28:06 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Amish Trivedi Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <20100719130913.41EDCCC18C@ws5-11.us4.outblaze.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 What I still wonder, though, is: What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick one's foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from people who are further ahead in their careers. Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and hope somebody takes notice? Amish On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Brian Seabolt wrote: > it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many > poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, > are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula > or Simon Cowell. > > Who? > > ______________________________ > > While he read Moll held a little aloof, > with downcast eyes, saying to herself, > Now he's at the part where, and a little > later, Now he's at the part where, and > so remained until the rustle of the sheet > going back into the envelope announced > that he had finished. > > Samuel Beckett, Malone Dies______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > Search for products and services at: > http://search.mail.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:37:54 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Weinstein Subject: Eric Weinstein & Adam Eaglin KGB Reading Thursday, 7/22 (NYC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey all, Adam Eaglin and I will be readingthis *Thursday, July 22nd* from *7:00p - 9:00p* at KGB Bar in New York City, and I'd be thrilled if you could make it. KGB is located at 85 E. 4th Street and is close to the B, D, F, V, 6, R, and W subway lines. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail if you have any questions. Thanks & all best, Eric ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:45:14 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Judy Johnson at 13th Moon asks for an "offering" rather than submission of= =A0work. =0AI'm going to change language at Sous Rature shortly. Not sure= =A0what the change =0Awill be, but totally agreed change should be a comin.= ...C=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=A0=0A=A0=0A=A0=0A________________________=A0= =0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=A0{homepage}=A0=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com/= sousrature.html=A0{journal}=0A=A0=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________________= _____=0AFrom: John Latta =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.= EDU=0ASent: Mon, July 19, 2010 2:18:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: 2010 Subito Press = Book Competition=0A=0ABravo, Rich. Freshest blast unleash'd here in career-= boost central since =0Athe end of the Eisenhower administration, at least!= =0A=0AJL=0A=0A=0AOn Sun, 18 Jul 2010, richard owens wrote:=0A=0A> for years= now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with radical =0A>= politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do nothing more = than =0A>reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity culture by par= ticipating in =0A>(or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions engineered ex= pressly for the purpose =0A>of roping in cash and fostering a competitive r= ather than cooperative cultural =0A>environment (&, yes, competition and co= operation are in _no_ uncertain way =0A>mutually exclusive).=0A>=0A> but fa= ir competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could weed out a = =0A>few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and otherwise) = would be =0A>beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win?=A0=A0=0A>= =0A> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Char= les Ives =0A>was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity."=0A>= =0A> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of cultu= ral =0A>politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of sub= mission. it's =0A>incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly= "submit" to editors =0A>that, more often than not, are about as capable of= recognizing productive work =0A>as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. & it's ev= en more reprehensible when editors =0A>create a situation that expects othe= rs to "submit." man, for people so attuned =0A>to the complexities and the = ideological underpinnings of language i find it =0A>utterly astounding that= so many gleefully accept that language of submission and =0A>the practice = of competition.=A0 =A0=0A>=0A> but, then again, it's all abt building a res= pectable career, right? & so long =0A>as you grapple w/ gender difference, = race, subjectivity or class politics in yr =0A>poetry or critical work, wel= l there's no need to worry abt how the practices =0A>that feed the poetry i= ndustry might also reproduce the logic that guarantees =0A>inequality and i= njustice.=0A> =A0=A0=0A>=0A> ........richard owens=0A> 810 richmond ave=0A>= buffalo NY 14222-1167=0A>=0A> damn the caesars, the journal=0A> damn the c= aesars, the blog=0A>=0A> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote:=0A>=0A> From: Noah Eli Gordon =0A> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition=0A> To: POETICS@LISTSE= RV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM=0A>=0A> 2010 Subito= Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovative =0A>writin= g, one each of fiction and poetry.=A0 Winners will be flown to the =0A>Univ= ersity of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011.=0A>= =0A> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up t= o 100 =0A>pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an= SASE for =0A>notification of results.=A0 Please see www.subitopress.org fo= r complete =0A>guidelines.=A0 Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hel= lems 101, 226 UCB, =0A>Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, frie= nds and relatives of UCB =0A>faculty are ineligible.=A0=0A>=0A> Submissions= will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postmark =0A>date). = =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=0A> ___= ______________________________________________________________=0A> The New = Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.=0A>http:= //www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:= en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3=0A>3=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetic= s List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0A>sub= /unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A= >=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does = not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0A>sub/unsub info: http://epc.buf= falo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A= =0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:01:45 -0500 Reply-To: halvard@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <61254.93942.qm@web33404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 We don't need no stinkin' competitions. We don't need no readin' fees. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf * On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 12:53 PM, richard owens wrote: > for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with > radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do > nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity > culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions > engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a > competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, > competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclusive). > > but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could weed > out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and otherwise) > would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? > > Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Charles > Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." > > &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of cultural > politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of submission. > it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly "submit" to > editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of recognizing > productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell. & it's even more > reprehensible when editors create a situation that expects others to > "submit." man, for people so attuned to the complexities and the ideological > underpinnings of language i find it utterly astounding that so many > gleefully accept that language of submission and the practice of > competition. > > but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right? & so > long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class > politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry abt > how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce the > logic that guarantees inequality and injustice. > > > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 > > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog > > --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > > From: Noah Eli Gordon > Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM > > 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovative > writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be flown to the > University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011. > > Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to 100 > pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an SASE for > notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for complete > guidelines. Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems 101, 226 UCB, > Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and relatives of UCB > faculty are ineligible. > > Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postmark > date). > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:23:49 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chad Sweeney Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, good essay, Adam, and I agree with Mary Jo about the words =E2=80=9Cso= ul=E2=80=9D and =0A=E2=80=9Cspirit=E2=80=9D; =C2=A0and the issue of the spi= ritual in poetry (or its decay) is an =0Aimportant one which I continue to = feel keenly. In addition to transcendence, its =0Ainverse (I guess) is imma= nence, which is another frontier for spirituality, the =0Adivine material, = the mystery of what "is" of the visible granite and bark, the =0Aimpenetrab= le threshold into the material, a miracle as grand and as intricate as =0Aa= ny angel=E2=80=99s wing. Oppen (and the objectivists generally) are strong = in this way, =0Aas is Heidegger, Nietzsche, Walter Benjamin, and others. Le= vertov borrows the =0ABuddhist term =E2=80=9Csuchness=E2=80=9D to describe = the frogness of the frog, the rockness of =0Athe rock, which is another way= into spirituality via the real, the material. As =0Afor language, perhaps = language is the human soul, in the collective, the alpha =0Aand the omega, = quite literally. I think the best scientists have always been =0Aawestruck = by the World, and in this light, the noon-light of wonder, it=E2=80=99s =0A= possible to see the material and the spiritual in the=C2=A0 same frame.=C2= =A0 Forgive my =0Arambling thoughts.=0A=0ACheers,=0AChad=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____= ____________________________=0AFrom: Mary Jo Malo =0A= To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, July 19, 2010 1:55:20 PM=0ASu= bject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A=0AWonderful essay, Adam= . Romantic Deconstructionist poetry is a possibility.=0AI've come to believ= e the words 'soul' and 'spirit' aren't offensive as much=0Aas inadequate fo= r describing our encounter with the infinite.=0A=0AMary Jo=0A=0A-- =0Ahttp:= //thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/=0Ahttp://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.bl= ogspot.com/=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderat= ed & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http:= //epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:27:09 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Dan Glass Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just do it yourself=97 http://withplusstand.blogspot.com =97 DTG On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Amish Trivedi wrote: > What I still wonder, though, is: > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick one= 's > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from > people > who are further ahead in their careers. > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and hope > somebody takes notice? > > Amish > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Brian Seabolt wrote: > > > it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many > > poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, > > are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula > > or Simon Cowell. > > > > Who? > > > > ______________________________ > > > > While he read Moll held a little aloof, > > with downcast eyes, saying to herself, > > Now he's at the part where, and a little > > later, Now he's at the part where, and > > so remained until the rustle of the sheet > > going back into the envelope announced > > that he had finished. > > > > Samuel Beckett, Malone Dies______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > Search for products and services at: > > http://search.mail.com > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:22:14 -0700 Reply-To: gfrym@earthlink.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, Pierre, for reinforcing it. Gloria Frym On 7/19/2010 5:01 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one of the first recommendations I give young writers is never ever to enter such "small reading fee" competitions as they are by their nature scam affairs, no matter how hip and experimental they claim to be. Basic capitalist exploitation. Right on Richard. — Pierre > > On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote: > > >> for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclusive). >> >> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could weed out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and otherwise) would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? >> >> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Charles Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." >> >> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language of submission. it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& it's even more reprehensible when editors create a situation that expects others to "submit." man, for people so attuned to the complexities and the ideological underpinnings of language i find it utterly astounding that so many gleefully accept that language of submission and the practice of competition. >> >> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right?& so long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry abt how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce the logic that guarantees inequality and injustice. >> >> >> ........richard owens >> 810 richmond ave >> buffalo NY 14222-1167 >> >> damn the caesars, the journal >> damn the caesars, the blog >> >> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: >> >> From: Noah Eli Gordon >> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM >> >> 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of innovative writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be flown to the University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring of 2011. >> >> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an SASE for notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems 101, 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and relatives of UCB faculty are ineligible. >> >> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postmark date). >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > ================================================= > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > ================================================= > Pierre Joris > cell phone: 518 225 7123 > email: jorpierre@gmail.com > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ > ================================================= > > > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date: 07/18/10 23:36:00 > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:34:21 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <598420.86613.qm@web504.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable     Thanks. I like= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Chad,=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks. I like= the Heideggerian version of this; what comes behind the =0Afundamental "wh= at is,"=C2=A0is an=C2=A0affirmation/acknowledgement of the Other. There are= =0Asome neat clips of Derrida addressing this on YouTube. =0A=0A=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Adam=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr= om: Chad Sweeney =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.B= UFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, July 19, 2010 4:23:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay = of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A=0AYes, good essay, Adam, and I agree with Mar= y Jo about the words =E2=80=9Csoul=E2=80=9D and =0A=E2=80=9Cspirit=E2=80=9D= ; =C2=A0and the issue of the spiritual in poetry (or its decay) is an =0Aim= portant one which I continue to feel keenly. In addition to transcendence, = its =0A=0Ainverse (I guess) is immanence, which is another frontier for spi= rituality, the =0Adivine material, the mystery of what "is" of the visible = granite and bark, the =0Aimpenetrable threshold into the material, a miracl= e as grand and as intricate as =0A=0Aany angel=E2=80=99s wing. Oppen (and t= he objectivists generally) are strong in this way, =0A=0Aas is Heidegger, N= ietzsche, Walter Benjamin, and others. Levertov borrows the =0ABuddhist ter= m =E2=80=9Csuchness=E2=80=9D to describe the frogness of the frog, the rock= ness of =0Athe rock, which is another way into spirituality via the real, t= he material. As =0Afor language, perhaps language is the human soul, in the= collective, the alpha =0Aand the omega, quite literally. I think the best = scientists have always been =0Aawestruck by the World, and in this light, t= he noon-light of wonder, it=E2=80=99s =0Apossible to see the material and t= he spiritual in the=C2=A0 same frame.=C2=A0 Forgive my =0Arambling thoughts= .=0A=0ACheers,=0AChad=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom= : Mary Jo Malo =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A= Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 1:55:20 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituali= ty in Poetry"=0A=0AWonderful essay, Adam. Romantic Deconstructionist poetry= is a possibility.=0AI've come to believe the words 'soul' and 'spirit' are= n't offensive as much=0Aas inadequate for describing our encounter with the= infinite.=0A=0AMary Jo=0A=0A-- =0Ahttp://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/=0A= http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Chec= k guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.ht= ml=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & d= oes not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.= buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 15:51:09 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Deborah A. Meadows" Subject: Beyond Baroque reading for Factory School poets--July 30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 You are invited to a Beyond Baroque reading on July 30th at 7:30 pm with Fa= ctory School Press poets including: Diane Ward, Deborah Meadows, Kathyrn Pringle, Sarah Menefee, Allison Cobb, = Brian Kim Stefans, Catherine Daly, and Carol Mirkove. The doors open for a reception and to the book store at 6 pm. Beyond Baroque is located: 681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA 90291 Deborah Meadows teaches in the Liberal Studies department at California Sta= te Polytechnic University, Pomona. Her sixth collection of poetry is from F= actory School, Depleted Burden Down. Other recent titles include How, the = means (Mindmade, 2010) and Goodbye Tissues (Shearsman Press, 2009). Her El= ectronic Poetry Center author page is located: http://epc.buffalo.edu/auth= ors/meadows/ Diane Ward was born in Washington, DC and currently lives in Santa Monica, = California. She attended the Corcoran School of Art in Washington, DC and = is studying Geography and Urban Studies at University of California, Los An= geles. She has published eleven books of poetry including, most recently, = a collaboration with Tina Darragh and Jane Sprague at #8 in the Belladonna = Elders series,2009, No List (no list) from Seeing Eye Books, Los Angeles, 2= 008, Flim-Yoked Scrim, Factory School, 2006, and When You Awake, New York: = Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. Several of her poems have been set to music b= y the Los Angeles composer Michael Webster, including =93Fade on Family=94 = which was performed in 2005 as part of The Society for the Activation of So= cial Space through Art and Sound series at the Schindler House in West Holl= ywood. =93InHouse,=94 a constructed poem, is forthcoming as part of Kinderg= arde, the First Avant Garde Anthology for Children. Catherine Daly's book Chanteuse / Cantatrice was published in the Heretical= Texts series in 2007. It is a book about collaboration and complicity dur= ing World War II and now; it can be read from the bottom of the page to the= top and normally. Allison Cobb is the author of Born2 (Chax Press) and Green-Wood (Factory Sc= hool). She was born in Los Alamos, New Mexico, as were the first atomic bom= bs, and she now lives in Portland, Oregon.=20 Sarah Menefee is a San Francisco poet whose latest books are Human Star [Fa= ctory School] and In Your Fish Helmet [Transmission Press]. kathryn l. pringle has written RIGHT NEW BIOLOGY (Factory School), The Stil= ls (Duration Press), and Temper and Felicity are lovers. (TAXT). she lives = in Oakland, Ca.=20 Brian Kim Stefans lives in Los Angeles, California, and teaches digital media and literature at UCLA. His latest books are What is Said to the Poet Concerning Flowers (2006) and Kluge: A Meditation, and other works (2007). In manuscript is a short collected titled Viva Miscegenation. His digital text works and other art projects can be seen at www.arras.net. Carol Mirakove is the author of Occupied and Mediated. Her work is included in the forthcoming issues of make/shift and Model Homes magazines. She lives in the SF Bay Area. ##### =20 =09 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:12:12 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Matthew Landis Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition Comments: To: gfrym@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <4C44C206.9010203@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've self published a chapbook. But it can be so expensive, especially if y= r trying to go beyond typical chapbook formatting (for instance with my DIY chapbook, the vellum cover with card stock backing, the paper I bought, the printer's fee...all of this cost me nearly $200 for 30 COPIES. And then, I think I've sold 5. I gave away some, but for the most part people ask how they can get one and then when I tell them the 25 (roughly) page hand stitched, designed from scratch, all materials bought and paid for and all the production work done by me and a couple friends is say $10 or even $8 it's an oh never mind. That's pricey for a book. Self-publishing has its merits (obviously, since I've done it a few times), but it IS difficult to up the ante sometimes on an aesthetic level. I'd also like to echo the comment about people who already have established themselves opposing these competitions and reading fees. Where is this door= ? Call me shallow but I actually CRAVE the opportunity to be associated with = a press, to engage in a community of fellow authors, to interact with a nexus of people who are involved in the book and in poetry in mediums and artways drastically different than my own. It's valuable. Typesetting my own work, designing the cover and layout, choosing the paper and materials for the cover, scrounging up public domain visuals, hand stitching...it's an invaluable experience, but it's also completely monological. And you become limited, very often in a technological sense if yr working with other peopl= e who are self-publishing. You simply don't have the means to produce work th= e way a boutique press, or academic press, or even some small presses can. Yr aesthetic choices are STILL LIMITED (although the interaction I've had with other self-publishing writers has been invaluable as well). So while I agre= e with Richard's sentiment and am immeasurably appreciative of Pierre supporting the sentiment it's worth pointing out that besides the exploitative nature of the competition and reading fee system, it's worth pointing out the other drawbacks behind another fundamental feature of capitalist production and culture: (1) the "workers" don't own the means of production (2) in many cases the "workers" are producing above "value" and beyond what they are paid in return for that production=97i.e, we produce m= ore than enough value to provide for our own subsistence and yet only receive "wages" enough to subsist=97which is really just an unnecessarily wordy definition of the labor theory of value. Anyway, I think both of those points should be considered as well. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gloria Frym wrote: > double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, Pierre, for > reinforcing it. > Gloria Frym > > > On 7/19/2010 5:01 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > >> hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one of the first recommendations= I >> give young writers is never ever to enter such "small reading fee" >> competitions as they are by their nature scam affairs, no matter how hip= and >> experimental they claim to be. Basic capitalist exploitation. Right on >> Richard. =97 Pierre >> >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote: >> >> >> >>> for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with >>> radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do >>> nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity >>> culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions >>> engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a >>> competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, >>> competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclusiv= e). >>> >>> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could wee= d >>> out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural and other= wise) >>> would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? >>> >>> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." Charl= es >>> Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." >>> >>> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of >>> cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language o= f >>> submission. it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so willin= gly >>> "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of >>> recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& it's eve= n >>> more reprehensible when editors create a situation that expects others = to >>> "submit." man, for people so attuned to the complexities and the ideolo= gical >>> underpinnings of language i find it utterly astounding that so many >>> gleefully accept that language of submission and the practice of >>> competition. >>> >>> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right?& s= o >>> long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class >>> politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry a= bt >>> how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce th= e >>> logic that guarantees inequality and injustice. >>> >>> >>> ........richard owens >>> 810 richmond ave >>> buffalo NY 14222-1167 >>> >>> damn the caesars, the journal >>> damn the caesars, the blog >>> >>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: >>> >>> From: Noah Eli Gordon >>> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM >>> >>> 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of >>> innovative writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be fl= own >>> to the University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the sprin= g of >>> 2011. >>> >>> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up to >>> 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee and an S= ASE >>> for notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for >>> complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press, English Department, Hellems= 101, >>> 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and >>> relatives of UCB faculty are ineligible. >>> >>> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 (postma= rk >>> date). >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your >>> inbox. >>> >>> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTA= GL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.htm= l >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.htm= l >>> >>> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> Pierre Joris >> cell phone: 518 225 7123 >> email: jorpierre@gmail.com >> http://pierrejoris.com >> Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date: 07/18/10 >> 23:36:00 >> >> >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 18:20:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Robert Duncan and NORGOL. Help needed! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HELP ! ! ! I need some help. I'm annotating Robert Duncan's poems (translating foreign words and phrases, identifying their source) for the Collected Later Poetry and Plays, and I'm getting into difficulties in GROUND WORK II: IN THE DARK. I'm stuck in more than one place, and may be calling for help from time to time. Here's the first: The poem is "IN WONDER" (pages 227-229 in the single-volume Ground Work) 1. "NORGOL" - the word occurs twice: "norgol" and "Nor-gol." The poem hints it might come from science fiction - Duncan read Andre Norton (among others) and it might be from something by her - or from Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings (but there I'm grasping at straws). Googling "Norgol" I find that it's a name in a wargame, but so far as I can tell the game post-dates the poem. Does anyone out there know? 2. The mixed German and French at the top of page 228 ends with "kasts", but my sources (native-speakers of German) tell me this is not a word in German, though it appears in the title of an autobiographical novel (The Unrestrained Life of Kast) by Volker Braun, published in 1972. I don't know German; Braun's book has not been translated into English. Can anyone help me here? Thanks. Peter ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:33:00 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?E=2E_Gambad=E9?= Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Amish Trivedi wrote: > What I still wonder, though, is: > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick one= 's > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from > people > who are further ahead in their careers. > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and hope > somebody takes notice? > "Stay in Cagnes. The view is charming." "Holland's not bad." I said. "Canals everywhere ..." "What are you going to do there?" H=E9l=E8ne asked. "A scandal," said Gilles. "That goes without saying. But what else?" "A real scandal," I said. "In a museum." Bertrand intervened, very interested: "Is that really why you're going?" "Not exactly," I explained. "Some friends will do it. But in cases like these, Gilles usually shows up ahead of time to organize the thing." "We all end up specializing in something," said Gilles. "And do you always organize them?" insisted Bertrand. "One well-planned scandal is worth two," I said. "Will they talk about it in the papers?" "In books, rather." "Let's go have a drink," proposed H=E9l=E8ne. "Or eat, if it's not too late." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:40:04 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable what if submission were a holy action? what if it allowed humility? > Date: Mon=2C 19 Jul 2010 13:27:09 -0700 > From: danthomasglass@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Just do it yourself=97 >=20 > http://withplusstand.blogspot.com >=20 > =97 >=20 > DTG >=20 > On Mon=2C Jul 19=2C 2010 at 12:28 PM=2C Amish Trivedi wrote: >=20 > > What I still wonder=2C though=2C is: > > > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick o= ne's > > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? > > > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from > > people > > who are further ahead in their careers. > > > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and ho= pe > > somebody takes notice? > > > > Amish > > > > On Mon=2C Jul 19=2C 2010 at 9:09 AM=2C Brian Seabolt wrote: > > > > > it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many > > > poets so willingly "submit" to editors that=2C more often than not= =2C > > > are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula > > > or Simon Cowell. > > > > > > Who? > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > > While he read Moll held a little aloof=2C > > > with downcast eyes=2C saying to herself=2C > > > Now he's at the part where=2C and a little > > > later=2C Now he's at the part where=2C and > > > so remained until the rustle of the sheet > > > going back into the envelope announced > > > that he had finished. > > > > > > Samuel Beckett=2C Malone Dies______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Search for products and services at: > > > http://search.mail.com > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ If It Exists=2C You'll Find it on SEEK. Australia's #1 job site http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:50:21 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Send work to journals you admire. And don't think=20 of it as a career. What matters is the=20 conversation with one's peers, and with the history of the craft. Best, Mark At 04:27 PM 7/19/2010, you wrote: >Just do it yourself=97 > >http://withplusstand.blogspot.com > >=97 > >DTG > >On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Amish Trivedi wrote: > > > What I still wonder, though, is: > > > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick= one's > > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? > > > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from > > people > > who are further ahead in their careers. > > > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and= hope > > somebody takes notice? > > > > Amish > > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Brian Seabolt = wrote: > > > > > it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many > > > poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, > > > are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula > > > or Simon Cowell. > > > > > > Who? > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > > While he read Moll held a little aloof, > > > with downcast eyes, saying to herself, > > > Now he's at the part where, and a little > > > later, Now he's at the part where, and > > > so remained until the rustle of the sheet > > > going back into the envelope announced > > > that he had finished. > > > > > > Samuel Beckett, Malone Dies______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Search for products and services at: > > > http://search.mail.com > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:18:11 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, but there's no shortage of presses that=20 read work without charging for the privilege. And=20 if those that charge were to go under for lack of=20 takers 20 would spring up in their place. At 09:12 PM 7/19/2010, you wrote: >I've self published a chapbook. But it can be so expensive, especially if= yr >trying to go beyond typical chapbook formatting (for instance with my DIY >chapbook, the vellum cover with card stock backing, the paper I bought, the >printer's fee...all of this cost me nearly $200 for 30 COPIES. And then, I >think I've sold 5. I gave away some, but for the most part people ask how >they can get one and then when I tell them the 25 (roughly) page hand >stitched, designed from scratch, all materials bought and paid for and all >the production work done by me and a couple friends is say $10 or even $8 >it's an oh never mind. That's pricey for a book. Self-publishing has its >merits (obviously, since I've done it a few times), but it IS difficult to >up the ante sometimes on an aesthetic level. > >I'd also like to echo the comment about people who already have established >themselves opposing these competitions and reading fees. Where is this= door? >Call me shallow but I actually CRAVE the opportunity to be associated with= a >press, to engage in a community of fellow authors, to interact with a nexus >of people who are involved in the book and in poetry in mediums and artways >drastically different than my own. It's valuable. Typesetting my own work, >designing the cover and layout, choosing the paper and materials for the >cover, scrounging up public domain visuals, hand stitching...it's an >invaluable experience, but it's also completely monological. And you become >limited, very often in a technological sense if yr working with other= people >who are self-publishing. You simply don't have the means to produce work= the >way a boutique press, or academic press, or even some small presses can. Yr >aesthetic choices are STILL LIMITED (although the interaction I've had with >other self-publishing writers has been invaluable as well). So while I= agree >with Richard's sentiment and am immeasurably appreciative of Pierre >supporting the sentiment it's worth pointing out that besides the >exploitative nature of the competition and reading fee system, it's worth >pointing out the other drawbacks behind another fundamental feature of >capitalist production and culture: (1) the "workers" don't own the means of >production (2) in many cases the "workers" are producing above "value" and >beyond what they are paid in return for that production=97i.e, we produce= more >than enough value to provide for our own subsistence and yet only receive >"wages" enough to subsist=97which is really just an unnecessarily wordy >definition of the labor theory of value. Anyway, I think both of those >points should be considered as well. > >On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gloria Frym wrote: > > > double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, Pierre,= for > > reinforcing it. > > Gloria Frym > > > > > > On 7/19/2010 5:01 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > >> hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one of the first= recommendations I > >> give young writers is never ever to enter such "small reading fee" > >> competitions as they are by their nature=20 > scam affairs, no matter how hip and > >> experimental they claim to be. Basic capitalist exploitation. Right on > >> Richard. =97 Pierre > >> > >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves= with > >>> radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do > >>> nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity > >>> culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry= competitions > >>> engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a > >>> competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, > >>> competition and cooperation are in _no_=20 > uncertain way mutually exclusive). > >>> > >>> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could= weed > >>> out a few greedy apples then market-based=20 > economies (cultural and otherwise) > >>> would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? > >>> > >>> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse."= Charles > >>> Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." > >>> > >>> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of > >>> cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language= of > >>> submission. it's incredibly demoralizing to=20 > see so many poets so willingly > >>> "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of > >>> recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& it's= even > >>> more reprehensible when editors create a situation that expects others= to > >>> "submit." man, for people so attuned to the=20 > complexities and the ideological > >>> underpinnings of language i find it utterly astounding that so many > >>> gleefully accept that language of submission and the practice of > >>> competition. > >>> > >>> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right?& = so > >>> long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class > >>> politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry= abt > >>> how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce= the > >>> logic that guarantees inequality and injustice. > >>> > >>> > >>> ........richard owens > >>> 810 richmond ave > >>> buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >>> > >>> damn the caesars, the journal > >>> damn the caesars, the blog > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon = wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Noah Eli Gordon > >>> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM > >>> > >>> 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of > >>> innovative writing, one each of fiction and=20 > poetry. Winners will be flown > >>> to the University of Colorado at Boulder to=20 > give a reading in the spring of > >>> 2011. > >>> > >>> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up= to > >>> 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along=20 > with a $20 reading fee and an SASE > >>> for notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for > >>> complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press,=20 > English Department, Hellems 101, > >>> 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and > >>> relatives of UCB faculty are ineligible. > >>> > >>> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010= (postmark > >>> date). > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > >>> inbox. > >>> > >>>=20 >= http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > >> "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > >> Pierre Joris > >> cell phone: 518 225 7123 > >> email: jorpierre@gmail.com > >> http://pierrejoris.com > >> Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines& sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date:= 07/18/10 > >> 23:36:00 > >> > >> > >> > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:26:16 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hilary Clark Subject: Re: Robert Duncan and NORGOL. Help needed! In-Reply-To: <000001cb27a9$c30df820$4929e860$@ubc.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT Hi Peter, "kast" seems to be a Dutch word, for a sort of armoire that was taken up in parts of America: see this link http://www.artnet.com/magazine/features/garrett/garrett2-14-00.asp I'm not sure whether "kasts" would be plural--don't know Dutch. Hope you're well. Hilary Clark Quoting Peter Quartermain : > HELP ! ! ! > > > > I need some help. I'm annotating Robert Duncan's poems (translating foreign > words and phrases, identifying their source) for the Collected Later Poetry > and Plays, and I'm getting into difficulties in GROUND WORK II: IN THE DARK. > I'm stuck in more than one place, and may be calling for help from time to > time. Here's the first: > > The poem is "IN WONDER" (pages 227-229 in the single-volume Ground Work) > > 1. "NORGOL" - the word occurs twice: "norgol" and "Nor-gol." > > The poem hints it might come from science fiction - Duncan read Andre Norton > (among others) and it might be from something by her - or from Tolkien's The > Lord of the Rings (but there I'm grasping at straws). Googling "Norgol" I > find that it's a name in a wargame, but so far as I can tell the game > post-dates the poem. > > Does anyone out there know? > > > > 2. The mixed German and French at the top of page 228 ends with "kasts", but > my sources (native-speakers of German) tell me this is not a word in German, > though it appears in the title of an autobiographical novel (The > Unrestrained Life of Kast) by Volker Braun, published in 1972. I don't know > German; Braun's book has not been translated into English. > > Can anyone help me here? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > ========= > Peter Quartermain > 846 Keefer Street > Vancouver > BC Canada V6A 1Y7 > 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) > quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > ========= > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:43:46 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not to be glib, but the solution to the monologicalness of se= Matthew,=0A=0ANot to be glib, but the solution to the monologicalness of se= lf-publishing is to =0Apublish other people. Instead of kvetching about ho= w unfair all these contests =0Aare, form a collective, share costs, use POD= and get those books out into the =0Aworld.=0A=0AHugh Behm-Steinberg=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Matthew Landis =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, Jul= y 19, 2010 6:12:12 PM=0ASubject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition=0A= =0AI've self published a chapbook. But it can be so expensive, especially i= f yr=0Atrying to go beyond typical chapbook formatting (for instance with m= y DIY=0Achapbook, the vellum cover with card stock backing, the paper I bou= ght, the=0Aprinter's fee...all of this cost me nearly $200 for 30 COPIES. A= nd then, I=0Athink I've sold 5. I gave away some, but for the most part peo= ple ask how=0Athey can get one and then when I tell them the 25 (roughly) p= age hand=0Astitched, designed from scratch, all materials bought and paid f= or and all=0Athe production work done by me and a couple friends is say $10= or even $8=0Ait's an oh never mind. That's pricey for a book. Self-publish= ing has its=0Amerits (obviously, since I've done it a few times), but it IS= difficult to=0Aup the ante sometimes on an aesthetic level.=0A=0AI'd also = like to echo the comment about people who already have established=0Athemse= lves opposing these competitions and reading fees. Where is this door?=0ACa= ll me shallow but I actually CRAVE the opportunity to be associated with a= =0Apress, to engage in a community of fellow authors, to interact with a ne= xus=0Aof people who are involved in the book and in poetry in mediums and a= rtways=0Adrastically different than my own. It's valuable. Typesetting my o= wn work,=0Adesigning the cover and layout, choosing the paper and materials= for the=0Acover, scrounging up public domain visuals, hand stitching...it'= s an=0Ainvaluable experience, but it's also completely monological. And you= become=0Alimited, very often in a technological sense if yr working with o= ther people=0Awho are self-publishing. You simply don't have the means to p= roduce work the=0Away a boutique press, or academic press, or even some sma= ll presses can. Yr=0Aaesthetic choices are STILL LIMITED (although the inte= raction I've had with=0Aother self-publishing writers has been invaluable a= s well). So while I agree=0Awith Richard's sentiment and am immeasurably ap= preciative of Pierre=0Asupporting the sentiment it's worth pointing out tha= t besides the=0Aexploitative nature of the competition and reading fee syst= em, it's worth=0Apointing out the other drawbacks behind another fundamenta= l feature of=0Acapitalist production and culture: (1) the "workers" don't o= wn the means of=0Aproduction (2) in many cases the "workers" are producing = above "value" and=0Abeyond what they are paid in return for that production= =E2=80=94i.e, we produce more=0Athan enough value to provide for our own su= bsistence and yet only receive=0A"wages" enough to subsist=E2=80=94which is= really just an unnecessarily wordy=0Adefinition of the labor theory of val= ue. Anyway, I think both of those=0Apoints should be considered as well.=0A= =0AOn Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gloria Frym wrote= :=0A=0A> double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, Pier= re, for=0A> reinforcing it.=0A> Gloria Frym=0A>=0A>=0A> On 7/19/2010 5:01 A= M, Pierre Joris wrote:=0A>=0A>> hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one= of the first recommendations I=0A>> give young writers is never ever to en= ter such "small reading fee"=0A>> competitions as they are by their nature = scam affairs, no matter how hip and=0A>> experimental they claim to be. Bas= ic capitalist exploitation. Right on=0A>> Richard. =E2=80=94 Pierre=0A>>=0A= >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> f= or years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with=0A>>= > radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do=0A>= >> nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity=0A= >>> culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions= =0A>>> engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering= a=0A>>> competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes,= =0A>>> competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclu= sive).=0A>>>=0A>>> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if on= ly we could weed=0A>>> out a few greedy apples then market-based economies = (cultural and otherwise)=0A>>> would be beneficial to all, no? and who does= n't want to win?=0A>>>=0A>>> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered= a crown | refuse." Charles=0A>>> Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are = badges of mediocrity."=0A>>>=0A>>> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given = to a responsible sense of=0A>>> cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop= appealing to the language of=0A>>> submission. it's incredibly demoralizin= g to see so many poets so willingly=0A>>> "submit" to editors that, more of= ten than not, are about as capable of=0A>>> recognizing productive work as = Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& it's even=0A>>> more reprehensible when edi= tors create a situation that expects others to=0A>>> "submit." man, for peo= ple so attuned to the complexities and the ideological=0A>>> underpinnings = of language i find it utterly astounding that so many=0A>>> gleefully accep= t that language of submission and the practice of=0A>>> competition.=0A>>>= =0A>>> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right?&= so=0A>>> long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or = class=0A>>> politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to= worry abt=0A>>> how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also= reproduce the=0A>>> logic that guarantees inequality and injustice.=0A>>>= =0A>>>=0A>>> ........richard owens=0A>>> 810 richmond ave=0A>>> buffalo NY = 14222-1167=0A>>>=0A>>> damn the caesars, the journal=0A>>> damn the caesars= , the blog=0A>>>=0A>>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> From: Noah Eli Gordon=0A>>> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition=0A>>> To: POETICS@L= ISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A>>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM=0A>>>=0A>>> = 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of=0A>>> inno= vative writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be flown=0A>>= > to the University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring = of=0A>>> 2011.=0A>>>=0A>>> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 p= ages of poetry or up to=0A>>> 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along with = a $20 reading fee and an SASE=0A>>> for notification of results. Please se= e www.subitopress.org for=0A>>> complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press,= English Department, Hellems 101,=0A>>> 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0= 226. Former students, friends and=0A>>> relatives of UCB faculty are inelig= ible.=0A>>>=0A>>> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th= , 2010 (postmark=0A>>> date).=0A>>> _______________________________________= __________________________=0A>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, = chat and e-mail from your=0A>>> inbox.=0A>>>=0A>>>http://www.windowslive.co= m/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_= 3=0A>>>3=0A>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>> The Poetics List is modera= ted& does not accept all posts. Check=0A>>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: h= ttp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A= >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>> The Poetics List is moderated& doe= s not accept all posts. Check=0A>>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc= .buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> "Lyric poetry has to = be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> Pierre Joris=0A>> = cell phone: 518 225 7123=0A>> email: jorpierre@gmail.com=0A>> http://pierre= joris.com=0A>> Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/=0A>> =3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> The Poeti= cs List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check=0A>> guidelines& s= ub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>> No virus found in this incoming message.=0A>> Checked by AVG - www.av= g.com=0A>> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date: = 07/18/10=0A>> 23:36:00=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines=0A> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>= =0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does no= t accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffal= o.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:07:52 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Noah Eli Gordon Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Richard's email was in response to the announcement I'd posted here=2C I= can't help but take his comment about the lack of editorial acumen as pers= onal=2C even if it included the "more often that not" caveat. Subito Press = was founded at the University of Colorado-Boulder by my colleague Elisabeth= Sheffield. It's not "my" press. I was simply passing on an announcement ab= out it. Like Richard=2C I've been frustrated in the past by what I perceive= d of as a dearth of uninteresting work being brought into the world. But ra= ther than grip about it=2C I decided=2C along with a friend to found a pres= s (http://www.lettermachine.org/catalog.html) that would function as a sort= of polemic=2C where our books would collectively make an argument for what= we see as representative of the work being done that is wholly valuable fo= r the state of (& future of) the art.=20 =20 Letter Machine Editions does not have a contest. We did=2C however=2C have = an open reading period recently=2C one where we asked for $10. For this $10= =2C we offered to mail any title from our backlist to whomever submitted. T= he cost of a mailing envelop is around one dollar. The cost to mail the boo= k is about two dollars. The actual cost per book=2C the amount we pay to pu= blish each book=2C including all fees=2C shipping=2C charges to list the bo= ok with SPD=2C designer fees=2C etc. ranges from about $4 to $8 per book (o= ur full-length titles are offset pressed=2C not digit)=2C for a total cost = of from $7 to $11 dollars. This is to say we are not making money off of ou= r reading fees=2C rather we're getting our books out into the world and get= ting a chance to see work by folks we might not otherwise see. I've persona= lly already gone over $5=2C000 into debt=2C and had to open up new credit c= ards=2C just to fund this press. Not for some sort of careerist gain=2C but= because I believe in the books we=92re publishing & want to see them move = into the world.=20 =20 That said=2C I realize that the initial response to my email was more of an= attack on the contest system. Yes=2C I also think it has its faults. But n= o=2C I don't think those poet who've won contests really care all that much= about the contest itself. It's more of a means to simply get the work into= the world. I mean=2C even John Latta=2C who commented here is a book conte= st winner. Here are a few more off the top of my head:=20 =20 Nathaniel Mackey Juliana Spahr Cole Swensen Elizabeth Willis John Ashbery Rodrigo Toscano Ange Mlinko Joshua Clover Ed Roberson John Yau Laura Mullen Graham Foust Jena Osman Laynie Browne Eleni Sikelianos Elizabeth Robinson =20 Maybe these people would shun contest now=2C but that's because they've had= the opportunity to establish themselves in some (& not always so) small wa= y through having won one. This is why I think Pierre Joris's comment about = them being scam affairs comes from a place of privilege. Although I respect= all of the many years he=92s put into poetry=2C teaching=2C translation=2C= etc.=2C it's just not that easy=2C as Amish Trivedi notes=2C for a young p= oet to break into the scene. Yes=2C I'm an advocate for starting your own p= ress and journal=2C both of which I did. But for folks not lucky enough to = live in a city with a large=2C active poetry community=2C or to study at a = school like the University of Buffalo (as Richard did)=2C with its instant = community and funding for student-editing projects=2C it can be a daunting = thing. Yes=2C creating alterative market systems is one answer. I think we = all think Sub Press is pretty amazing. But the problem is much deeper than = the tiny market systems of poetry. One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet = these days without being somehow independently wealthy. That wasn't always = the case=2C tho.=20 =20 I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better dire= cted into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email=2C as Ric= hard did=2C by bringing up inequality and injustice=2C aren't there other m= eans to more efficaciously address these issues?=20 =20 --Noah =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:37:14 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Sarah Sarai Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I believe it should be "artists WHO live" not "artists THAT live," a mist= ake=20 replicated in your essay.=20 Here's a poem; 3, actually:=20 http://www.terrain.org/poetry/22/sarai.htm Sarah Sarai another angry sinner in the soft hands of something greater than her ego http://my3000lovingarms.blogspot.com/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:44:17 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Cool News! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hey: I'm so excited. My book Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems is now available as an Amazon Kindle book (downloadable also for mac laptop, iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch, blackberry and Android)--buy one :) and tell all your friends: http://www.amazon.com/Wake-Up-Calls-Morning-Poems-ebook/dp/B 003OYIH5O/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=books&qid=1275535066&sr=1-4 and I just found out one of my poems will be included in this wild shoe museum in Belgium as well as on their website. The exhibit includes artists' work shoes they sometimes turned into artwork as well as an ethnographic section of shoes from traditional cultures, a designer section and now drawing, cartoons and writings about shoes. You can find my poem on their website if you click on the writers section on the bottom right hand corner then scroll down to my name: www.shoesornoshoes.com/ -- Wanda Phipps Check out my websites: http://www.mindhoney.com and http://www.myspace.com/wandaphippsband My latest book of poetry Field of Wanting: Poems of Desire available at: http://www.blazevox.org/bk-wp.htm And my 1st full-length book of poems Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems available at:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=rm_item ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:03:53 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: teersteeg Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Same story--submission fees--in "anonymous" visual art competitions. The only difference is that I've never heard of an exhibition opportunity that didn't include a hefty per item fee. regards, brunoT cape cod >Yeah, but there's no shortage of presses that read work without charging >for the privilege. And if those that charge were to go under for lack of >takers 20 would spring up in their place. At 09:12 PM 7/19/2010, you wrote: >I've self published a chapbook. But it can be so expensive, especially if >yr >trying to go beyond typical chapbook formatting (for instance with my DIY >chapbook, the vellum cover with card stock backing, the paper I bought, the >printer's fee...all of this cost me nearly $200 for 30 COPIES. And then, I >think I've sold 5. I gave away some, but for the most part people ask how >they can get one and then when I tell them the 25 (roughly) page hand >stitched, designed from scratch, all materials bought and paid for and all >the production work done by me and a couple friends is say $10 or even $8 >it's an oh never mind. That's pricey for a book. Self-publishing has its >merits (obviously, since I've done it a few times), but it IS difficult to >up the ante sometimes on an aesthetic level. > >I'd also like to echo the comment about people who already have established >themselves opposing these competitions and reading fees. Where is this >door? >Call me shallow but I actually CRAVE the opportunity to be associated with >a >press, to engage in a community of fellow authors, to interact with a nexus >of people who are involved in the book and in poetry in mediums and artways >drastically different than my own. It's valuable. Typesetting my own work, >designing the cover and layout, choosing the paper and materials for the >cover, scrounging up public domain visuals, hand stitching...it's an >invaluable experience, but it's also completely monological. And you become >limited, very often in a technological sense if yr working with other >people >who are self-publishing. You simply don't have the means to produce work >the >way a boutique press, or academic press, or even some small presses can. Yr >aesthetic choices are STILL LIMITED (although the interaction I've had with >other self-publishing writers has been invaluable as well). So while I >agree >with Richard's sentiment and am immeasurably appreciative of Pierre >supporting the sentiment it's worth pointing out that besides the >exploitative nature of the competition and reading fee system, it's worth >pointing out the other drawbacks behind another fundamental feature of >capitalist production and culture: (1) the "workers" don't own the means of >production (2) in many cases the "workers" are producing above "value" and >beyond what they are paid in return for that production-i.e, we produce >more >than enough value to provide for our own subsistence and yet only receive >"wages" enough to subsist-which is really just an unnecessarily wordy >definition of the labor theory of value. Anyway, I think both of those >points should be considered as well. > >On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gloria Frym wrote: > > > double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, Pierre, > > for > > reinforcing it. > > Gloria Frym > > > > > > On 7/19/2010 5:01 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > >> hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one of the first > >> recommendations I > >> give young writers is never ever to enter such "small reading fee" > >> competitions as they are by their nature > scam affairs, no matter how hip and > >> experimental they claim to be. Basic capitalist exploitation. Right on > >> Richard. - Pierre > >> > >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves > >>> with > >>> radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do > >>> nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity > >>> culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry > >>> competitions > >>> engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering a > >>> competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes, > >>> competition and cooperation are in _no_ > uncertain way mutually exclusive). > >>> > >>> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we could > >>> weed > >>> out a few greedy apples then market-based > economies (cultural and otherwise) > >>> would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? > >>> > >>> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | refuse." > >>> Charles > >>> Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." > >>> > >>> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense of > >>> cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the language > >>> of > >>> submission. it's incredibly demoralizing to > see so many poets so willingly > >>> "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as capable of > >>> recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& it's > >>> even > >>> more reprehensible when editors create a situation that expects others > >>> to > >>> "submit." man, for people so attuned to the > complexities and the ideological > >>> underpinnings of language i find it utterly astounding that so many > >>> gleefully accept that language of submission and the practice of > >>> competition. > >>> > >>> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right?& > >>> so > >>> long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or class > >>> politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to worry > >>> abt > >>> how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also reproduce > >>> the > >>> logic that guarantees inequality and injustice. > >>> > >>> > >>> ........richard owens > >>> 810 richmond ave > >>> buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >>> > >>> damn the caesars, the journal > >>> damn the caesars, the blog > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Noah Eli Gordon > >>> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM > >>> > >>> 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of > >>> innovative writing, one each of fiction and > poetry. Winners will be flown > >>> to the University of Colorado at Boulder to > give a reading in the spring of > >>> 2011. > >>> > >>> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry or up > >>> to > >>> 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along > with a $20 reading fee and an SASE > >>> for notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for > >>> complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press, > English Department, Hellems 101, > >>> 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends and > >>> relatives of UCB faculty are ineligible. > >>> > >>> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 > >>> (postmark > >>> date). > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > >>> inbox. > >>> > >>> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: > >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: > >>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >> ================================================= > >> "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > >> ================================================= > >> Pierre Joris > >> cell phone: 518 225 7123 > >> email: jorpierre@gmail.com > >> http://pierrejoris.com > >> Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ > >> ================================================= > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines& sub/unsub info: > >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date: > >> 07/18/10 > >> 23:36:00 > >> > >> > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > >================================== >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines >& sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and through every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss' fragments are like Chekhov's short stories­the more that gets left out, the more they seem to contain. One can hear echoes from all the various ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musical threnody.[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 06:35:04 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This has been a very interesting discussion, in my opinion. Noah, I really = appreciate your comments and defense of the poetry contests in response. I = have very little to do with other poets in my daily life, other than the po= ets who I "meet" online and whose work I read. I find it reassuring that ev= en though our motives are not ALWAYS the purest if we were to be honest wit= h ourselves, we are/ you are/I am working towards an openness and a non-com= petitiveness in creating and getting poems out there, considering that most= everything else is so very competitive; we live in a cut throat dog eat do= g...and other cliches, world. Without a doubt, we, poets, cannot always get= away from what we deplore, but we can look at it, respond to it, and think= of other ways to do what we believe in, which is to write, read, and respo= nd to poetry, since poetry is really about the world, the universe, each ot= her, etc. etc.=20 Thanks. Mary Kasimor --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: From: Noah Eli Gordon Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 10:07 PM As Richard's email was in response to the announcement I'd posted here, I c= an't help but take his comment about the lack of editorial acumen as person= al, even if it included the "more often that not" caveat. Subito Press was = founded at the University of Colorado-Boulder by my colleague Elisabeth She= ffield. It's not "my" press. I was simply passing on an announcement about = it. Like Richard, I've been frustrated in the past by what I perceived of a= s a dearth of uninteresting work being brought into the world. But rather t= han grip about it, I decided, along with a friend to found a press (http://= www.lettermachine.org/catalog.html) that would function as a sort of polemi= c, where our books would collectively make an argument for what we see as r= epresentative of the work being done that is wholly valuable for the state = of (& future of) the art.=20 =20 Letter Machine Editions does not have a contest. We did, however, have an o= pen reading period recently, one where we asked for $10. For this $10, we o= ffered to mail any title from our backlist to whomever submitted. The cost = of a mailing envelop is around one dollar. The cost to mail the book is abo= ut two dollars. The actual cost per book, the amount we pay to publish each= book, including all fees, shipping, charges to list the book with SPD, des= igner fees, etc. ranges from about $4 to $8 per book (our full-length title= s are offset pressed, not digit), for a total cost of from $7 to $11 dollar= s. This is to say we are not making money off of our reading fees, rather w= e're getting our books out into the world and getting a chance to see work = by folks we might not otherwise see. I've personally already gone over $5,0= 00 into debt, and had to open up new credit cards, just to fund this press.= Not for some sort of careerist gain, but because I believe in the books we=E2=80=99re publishing & want to see them move into the world.=20 =20 That said, I realize that the initial response to my email was more of an a= ttack on the contest system. Yes, I also think it has its faults. But no, I= don't think those poet who've won contests really care all that much about= the contest itself. It's more of a means to simply get the work into the w= orld. I mean, even John Latta, who commented here is a book contest winner.= Here are a few more off the top of my head:=20 =20 Nathaniel Mackey Juliana Spahr Cole Swensen Elizabeth Willis John Ashbery Rodrigo Toscano Ange Mlinko Joshua Clover Ed Roberson John Yau Laura Mullen Graham Foust Jena Osman Laynie Browne Eleni Sikelianos Elizabeth Robinson =20 Maybe these people would shun contest now, but that's because they've had t= he opportunity to establish themselves in some (& not always so) small way = through having won one. This is why I think Pierre Joris's comment about th= em being scam affairs comes from a place of privilege. Although I respect a= ll of the many years he=E2=80=99s put into poetry, teaching, translation, e= tc., it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi notes, for a young poet to b= reak into the scene. Yes, I'm an advocate for starting your own press and j= ournal, both of which I did. But for folks not lucky enough to live in a ci= ty with a large, active poetry community, or to study at a school like the = University of Buffalo (as Richard did), with its instant community and fund= ing for student-editing projects, it can be a daunting thing. Yes, creating= alterative market systems is one answer. I think we all think Sub Press is= pretty amazing. But the problem is much deeper than the tiny market systems of poetry. One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet these days with= out being somehow independently wealthy. That wasn't always the case, tho.= =20 =20 I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better dire= cted into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email, as Richa= rd did, by bringing up inequality and injustice, aren't there other means t= o more efficaciously address these issues?=20 =20 --Noah =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:36:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Douglas Manson Subject: Courses offered in all forums, formats MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi All, Please check out my poetics link--I'm in love with learning! http://dougfinmanson.blogspot.com/2010/07/courses-workshops-and-seminars-offered.html Thank you, Douglas Manson 716-240-8792 inksaudible@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:04:04 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Elizabeth Switaj Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Not one of us burns every one of our poems before letting anyone else read them. We all have a little mud on us if we want to talk about careerism. And purity is repulsive anyway. Collectives and conversations with your peers start to look a lot like cliques and cronyism if you have lousy social skills, particularly if those social skills are affected by neurological differences. Oh, I know that's a marginal concern but aren't the margins where distinctive writing happens more often than not? Elizabeth Switaj elizabethkateswitaj.net ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:51:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: Robert Duncan and NORGOL. Help needed! In-Reply-To: <1279592776.4c450948f0d9f@webmail.usask.ca> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hilary: Wow. I wonder. The plural is kasten, but Duncan might not have known that. I didn't know the dutch in its singular either (did Duncan?), which says something about my ignorance speculating upon his putative same. How to deal with a writer's ignorance is a subject worthy of several books, I'd think, but what ignorant editor or professor who says s/he knows something can protect the poet the poem and other readers from that knowing. So THANKS -- and the conundrum is still conundering. Which means Duncan's work is, no doubt, endless in its demands -- but I can live with walking away from itall once the deadline arrives. And that tells you I'm getting a bit tiured of this project, look forward to other stuff so do, and seem to be thriving. Just finished the first of two longish-weekend visits from my son and his children (aged 4 and 2) -- fun, but oh my, exhausting. And that tells you we're both well, happy, busy -- and (oh dear) looking forward to the grandchildren's return visit this weekend, before they fly home to Ottawa. Good job the summer is, so far, generally cool enough to be pleasant rather than too hot to be tolerable. BC is not Saskatchewan. Best, yes indeed, Peter ========= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC Canada V6A 1Y7 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ========= -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Hilary Clark Sent: 19 July 2010 07:26 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: Robert Duncan and NORGOL. Help needed! Hi Peter, "kast" seems to be a Dutch word, for a sort of armoire that was taken up in parts of America: see this link http://www.artnet.com/magazine/features/garrett/garrett2-14-00.asp I'm not sure whether "kasts" would be plural--don't know Dutch. Hope you're well. Hilary Clark Quoting Peter Quartermain : > HELP ! ! ! > > > > I need some help. I'm annotating Robert Duncan's poems (translating foreign > words and phrases, identifying their source) for the Collected Later Poetry > and Plays, and I'm getting into difficulties in GROUND WORK II: IN THE DARK. > I'm stuck in more than one place, and may be calling for help from time to > time. Here's the first: > > The poem is "IN WONDER" (pages 227-229 in the single-volume Ground Work) > > 1. "NORGOL" - the word occurs twice: "norgol" and "Nor-gol." > > The poem hints it might come from science fiction - Duncan read Andre Norton > (among others) and it might be from something by her - or from Tolkien's The > Lord of the Rings (but there I'm grasping at straws). Googling "Norgol" I > find that it's a name in a wargame, but so far as I can tell the game > post-dates the poem. > > Does anyone out there know? > > > > 2. The mixed German and French at the top of page 228 ends with "kasts", but > my sources (native-speakers of German) tell me this is not a word in German, > though it appears in the title of an autobiographical novel (The > Unrestrained Life of Kast) by Volker Braun, published in 1972. I don't know > German; Braun's book has not been translated into English. > > Can anyone help me here? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > ========= > Peter Quartermain > 846 Keefer Street > Vancouver > BC Canada V6A 1Y7 > 604 255 8274 (voice and fax) > quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca > ========= > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:51:17 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Matthew Landis Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TO respond to Hugh's point: That's a great point and, in fact, I do work with a group of poets here in Philadelphia who have set up their own small presses, or put out small limited editions of other poets just for fun, and set up readings for other poets, and readings which celebrate presses that we admire or are fond of. All of that certainly helps, so yr point is well taken. That still doesn't address the point I made regarding how engaging in such communities can still, very often, limit the aesthetic choices available to you (printing i= n color, paper quality) not to mention the fact that most of us are recent college graduates or grad students who don't have the time to raise the money to do more ambitious publishing projects because we have to work in order to payoff ridiculous student loans and are already sacrificing sleep, social lives, and sanity in order to do what little we can...we're not "professional" poets who have institutional support; we're 20 somethings wh= o are already publishing our friends work, setting up readings, attending readings, meeting to share and discuss work. The group that I work with, th= e New Philadelphia Poets, some of our members work 2 or 3 jobs, than have to hussle to meetings where we set up a reading, or meet with a friend who's putting out a chapbook by one of us, or go to a reading we've set up or tha= t we're performing in. Or for the reading series I help run, the 3 of us who work on it work all week and then sacrifice most if not all of our Sunday t= o set up the bookstore where we hold it, run the reading and the open reading which follows, and then clean up. And I swear I'm not complaining about it. None of us. We all love poetry and art and music too much to bother complaining. It's a source of joy in the midst of an otherwise workaday existence. My point is, I suppose, we're already at the mercy of and subjec= t to capitalist exploitation in order to simply have the money to afford the leisure time necessary to sustain our artistic lives. There's a real poetic community in Philadelphia=97one of the most open and engaging in the countr= y I'd venture to say; but it's still difficult simply because most, though admittedly not all, of the people I know in this community are not in a position of economic privilege (due to student loans, or health concerns combined with a lack of health insurance, or any of the other myriad social problems) wherein they have the leisure time required to do what yr talking about=97& even if they did the resources would still be limited. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > As Richard's email was in response to the announcement I'd posted here, I > can't help but take his comment about the lack of editorial acumen as > personal, even if it included the "more often that not" caveat. Subito Pr= ess > was founded at the University of Colorado-Boulder by my colleague Elisabe= th > Sheffield. It's not "my" press. I was simply passing on an announcement > about it. Like Richard, I've been frustrated in the past by what I percei= ved > of as a dearth of uninteresting work being brought into the world. But > rather than grip about it, I decided, along with a friend to found a pres= s ( > http://www.lettermachine.org/catalog.html) that would function as a sort > of polemic, where our books would collectively make an argument for what = we > see as representative of the work being done that is wholly valuable for = the > state of (& future of) the art. > > Letter Machine Editions does not have a contest. We did, however, have an > open reading period recently, one where we asked for $10. For this $10, w= e > offered to mail any title from our backlist to whomever submitted. The co= st > of a mailing envelop is around one dollar. The cost to mail the book is > about two dollars. The actual cost per book, the amount we pay to publish > each book, including all fees, shipping, charges to list the book with SP= D, > designer fees, etc. ranges from about $4 to $8 per book (our full-length > titles are offset pressed, not digit), for a total cost of from $7 to $11 > dollars. This is to say we are not making money off of our reading fees, > rather we're getting our books out into the world and getting a chance to > see work by folks we might not otherwise see. I've personally already gon= e > over $5,000 into debt, and had to open up new credit cards, just to fund > this press. Not for some sort of careerist gain, but because I believe in > the books we=92re publishing & want to see them move into the world. > > That said, I realize that the initial response to my email was more of an > attack on the contest system. Yes, I also think it has its faults. But no= , I > don't think those poet who've won contests really care all that much abou= t > the contest itself. It's more of a means to simply get the work into the > world. I mean, even John Latta, who commented here is a book contest winn= er. > Here are a few more off the top of my head: > > Nathaniel Mackey > Juliana Spahr > Cole Swensen > Elizabeth Willis > John Ashbery > Rodrigo Toscano > Ange Mlinko > Joshua Clover > Ed Roberson > John Yau > Laura Mullen > Graham Foust > Jena Osman > Laynie Browne > Eleni Sikelianos > Elizabeth Robinson > > Maybe these people would shun contest now, but that's because they've had > the opportunity to establish themselves in some (& not always so) small w= ay > through having won one. This is why I think Pierre Joris's comment about > them being scam affairs comes from a place of privilege. Although I respe= ct > all of the many years he=92s put into poetry, teaching, translation, etc.= , > it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi notes, for a young poet to brea= k > into the scene. Yes, I'm an advocate for starting your own press and > journal, both of which I did. But for folks not lucky enough to live in a > city with a large, active poetry community, or to study at a school like = the > University of Buffalo (as Richard did), with its instant community and > funding for student-editing projects, it can be a daunting thing. Yes, > creating alterative market systems is one answer. I think we all think Su= b > Press is pretty amazing. But the problem is much deeper than the tiny mar= ket > systems of poetry. One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet these days > without being somehow independently wealthy. That wasn't always the case, > tho. > > I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better > directed into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email, as > Richard did, by bringing up inequality and injustice, aren't there other > means to more efficaciously address these issues? > > --Noah > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your > inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:08:53 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: sheila black Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition Comments: To: michael farrell In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think you are correct in giving the word "submission" another connotation= (i.e. humility).=C2=A0 An apprentice by nature of being an apprentice is i= n a process of learning her craft. Why not learn by submitting work (howeve= r tentative).=C2=A0 Art requires great humility and great arrogance (in my = humble opinion). Of course, I think there are many artists whose gifts put = them in the category of linguistic savants; however, for most of us who beg= an with "just" :) :) a passion for literature, writing, language, etc. it i= s a craft that grows with experience and sometimes acknowledgment (dependin= g on the person). I write because I love to write. Its always nice to get t= hings published occasionally. Many of my young students express their ultim= ate desire is to be published, but most students, (and I include myself in = this), feel driven to say something, driven to tell their outside world som= ething. I love that there are so many small presses now providing that service in whatever form they choose.=20 Sheila e. Black =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0Sheila Black=20 --- On Mon, 7/19/10, michael farrell wrote: From: michael farrell Subject: RE: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: poetics@listserv.buffalo.edu Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 4:40 PM what if submission were a holy action? what if it allowed humility? > Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:27:09 -0700 > From: danthomasglass@GMAIL.COM > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Just do it yourself=E2=80=94 >=20 > http://withplusstand.blogspot.com >=20 > =E2=80=94 >=20 > DTG >=20 > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Amish Trivedi wrot= e: >=20 > > What I still wonder, though, is: > > > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick o= ne's > > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? > > > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from > > people > > who are further ahead in their careers. > > > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and ho= pe > > somebody takes notice? > > > > Amish > > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Brian Seabolt wrot= e: > > > > >=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many > > >=C2=A0 poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than no= t, > > >=C2=A0 are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Ab= dula > > >=C2=A0 or Simon Cowell. > > > > > > Who? > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > > While he read Moll held a little aloof, > > > with downcast eyes, saying to herself, > > > Now he's at the part where, and a little > > > later, Now he's at the part where, and > > > so remained until the rustle of the sheet > > > going back into the envelope announced > > > that he had finished. > > > > > > Samuel Beckett, Malone Dies______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Search for products and services at: > > > http://search.mail.com > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidel= ines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 _________________________________________________________________ If It Exists, You'll Find it on SEEK. Australia's #1 job site http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/157639755/direct/01/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 18:31:58 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: jason snyder Subject: Sidebrow Open Reading Period in August MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sidebrow Books will hold an open reading period for unpublished book-length= manuscripts of prose=2C poetry=2C cross-genre=2C and collaborative work du= ring the month of August. Details regarding the submission process are available on the Sidebrow Web = site (http://www.sidebrow.net/submit). There will be a $20 reading fee for = each manuscript submitted. As thanks for helping develop Sidebrow's collabo= rative projects=2C Sidebrow contributors will be offered a discounted readi= ng fee of $10 per manuscript. All writers who submit during the open readin= g period will receive a complimentary Sidebrow title. Simultaneous submissions will be considered where noted=2C but we ask you t= o notify us promptly should your manuscript be accepted elsewhere. Work pub= lished in part as a chapbook will be considered=2C as long as the manuscrip= t in its current form has not been previously published. Manuscripts not postmarked in the month of August will be discarded. More information can be found on the Sidebrow Web site: http://www.sidebrow= .net/submit Those unfamiliar with Sidebrow are encouraged to explore our press before s= ubmitting by purchasing one of our titles: http://www.sidebrow.net/books = =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb= ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 08:08:40 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT On Jul 19, 2010, at 3:28 PM, Amish Trivedi wrote: > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Get together with other young poets with similar ideas about poetry & poetics, and start your own magazine and small presses. > Which door does one stick one's > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? you don't use the door, you use the window, the skylight, the back door. What is this door anyway? leading to what? The House of Succesful Poets? Ain't no such abode. Of course if you mean the University's Creative Writing departments and your career move is to land a job there in order to pay the rent, that's different from being a poet who wants to write the best poetry she can. > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from people > who are further ahead in their careers. Maybe the late sixties/seventies, when I came off age as a poet, were more politically radical, but it never entered my or my contemporaries' mind to get involved with any outfit, magazine or publisher, that smacked of reading period / paid submission / contest, what have you. In fact, thinking back, those kind of gimmicks didn't exist much, as they are to a great extent the invention of the MFA industry. > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and hope > somebody takes notice? No (see first answer), work quietly or loudly wherever & however you work best, and then go make a loud noise in the streets. There probably is no quieter burial than to win the 20whatever $50whatever XXXPress Prize. You think you've achieved something (which will lure you into trying to repeat, thus imitating yourself) and everyone else knows what such prizes means & it will just be another hurdle for someone to read you straight. Pierre ================================================= "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn ================================================= Pierre Joris cell phone: 518 225 7123 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ ================================================= ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > ... I think Pierre Joris's comment about them being scam affairs comes = from a place of privilege. Where do you want me to write from? Can't quit my job in a provincial = upstate English department to answer you, really. Wouldn't know how to = pay the rent. Been there for 18 years now, after 20+ freelancing, doing = mimeo-mags, translating for peanuts or less, editing, teaching EFL, = bartending, whatever. It is exactly because of that experience that I = feel that I can speak to yours & Amish's posts, & that that's coming = from a place of experience, not privilege.=20 > Although I respect all of the many years he=92s put into poetry, = teaching, translation, etc., it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi = notes, for a young poet to break into the scene. It was never easy. It was actually even less easy back when as there was = no poetry "scene" that offered careers =97 that came about in the = eighties & nineties with the expansion of the MFA programs, with AWP, = etc. One never thought one could make a living at poetry, one paid the = rent with whatever job =97 & it would certainly not be poetry related =97 = that came to hand. So the place of privilege would actually be today = when there seem to be so much available possibilities =97 cf. the ads = throughout every issue of AWP mag.=20 > One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet these days without being = somehow independently wealthy. How much money does it take to get an MFA? Enough to live in NYC for the = same amount of years & write poetry & find out if that is what one is = good at and wants to spend one's life doing. That involves a risk of = course =97but the kind of risk any artist worth her salt needs to take. = Of course if you find out that you are not very good or even any good at = all at writing poetry while doing an MFA, you haven't really lost any of = your investment, as you will get the degree anyhow and then can still go = on & get a job teaching the writing of poetry for the next 40 years. >=20 > I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better = directed into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email, = as Richard did, by bringing up inequality and injustice, aren't there = other means to more efficaciously address these issues?=20 I think it is indeed worth arguing about, Noah, because it is exactly = these questions that keep coming up while teaching or talking with young = poets. They define in a certain way the political economy of the current = situation in the US. (Poets anywhere else, from Paris to Timbuktu, = Beijing to Sofia, would laugh out loud at the puny problems encountered = by well-fed, well-clothed young Norte Americanos bitching about not = getting into some poetry "scene." The real place of privilege is this = country. btw, I admire Letter Machine Editions & your description of the economy = of it in this post =97 important in fact to do that, explain it = publicly. (In the seventies, in London, Allen Fisher would always have = an page in the back of the books he published that would itemize the = exact cost of the book & its relation to the number of copies printed = and the price asked per copy.) Pierre =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris =20 cell phone: 518 225 7123 = =20 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:43:46 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Hugh Behm-Steinberg Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not to be glib, but the solution to the monologicalness of se= Matthew,=0A=0ANot to be glib, but the solution to the monologicalness of se= lf-publishing is to =0Apublish other people. Instead of kvetching about ho= w unfair all these contests =0Aare, form a collective, share costs, use POD= and get those books out into the =0Aworld.=0A=0AHugh Behm-Steinberg=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Matthew Landis =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, Jul= y 19, 2010 6:12:12 PM=0ASubject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition=0A= =0AI've self published a chapbook. But it can be so expensive, especially i= f yr=0Atrying to go beyond typical chapbook formatting (for instance with m= y DIY=0Achapbook, the vellum cover with card stock backing, the paper I bou= ght, the=0Aprinter's fee...all of this cost me nearly $200 for 30 COPIES. A= nd then, I=0Athink I've sold 5. I gave away some, but for the most part peo= ple ask how=0Athey can get one and then when I tell them the 25 (roughly) p= age hand=0Astitched, designed from scratch, all materials bought and paid f= or and all=0Athe production work done by me and a couple friends is say $10= or even $8=0Ait's an oh never mind. That's pricey for a book. Self-publish= ing has its=0Amerits (obviously, since I've done it a few times), but it IS= difficult to=0Aup the ante sometimes on an aesthetic level.=0A=0AI'd also = like to echo the comment about people who already have established=0Athemse= lves opposing these competitions and reading fees. Where is this door?=0ACa= ll me shallow but I actually CRAVE the opportunity to be associated with a= =0Apress, to engage in a community of fellow authors, to interact with a ne= xus=0Aof people who are involved in the book and in poetry in mediums and a= rtways=0Adrastically different than my own. It's valuable. Typesetting my o= wn work,=0Adesigning the cover and layout, choosing the paper and materials= for the=0Acover, scrounging up public domain visuals, hand stitching...it'= s an=0Ainvaluable experience, but it's also completely monological. And you= become=0Alimited, very often in a technological sense if yr working with o= ther people=0Awho are self-publishing. You simply don't have the means to p= roduce work the=0Away a boutique press, or academic press, or even some sma= ll presses can. Yr=0Aaesthetic choices are STILL LIMITED (although the inte= raction I've had with=0Aother self-publishing writers has been invaluable a= s well). So while I agree=0Awith Richard's sentiment and am immeasurably ap= preciative of Pierre=0Asupporting the sentiment it's worth pointing out tha= t besides the=0Aexploitative nature of the competition and reading fee syst= em, it's worth=0Apointing out the other drawbacks behind another fundamenta= l feature of=0Acapitalist production and culture: (1) the "workers" don't o= wn the means of=0Aproduction (2) in many cases the "workers" are producing = above "value" and=0Abeyond what they are paid in return for that production= =E2=80=94i.e, we produce more=0Athan enough value to provide for our own su= bsistence and yet only receive=0A"wages" enough to subsist=E2=80=94which is= really just an unnecessarily wordy=0Adefinition of the labor theory of val= ue. Anyway, I think both of those=0Apoints should be considered as well.=0A= =0AOn Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gloria Frym wrote= :=0A=0A> double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, Pier= re, for=0A> reinforcing it.=0A> Gloria Frym=0A>=0A>=0A> On 7/19/2010 5:01 A= M, Pierre Joris wrote:=0A>=0A>> hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one= of the first recommendations I=0A>> give young writers is never ever to en= ter such "small reading fee"=0A>> competitions as they are by their nature = scam affairs, no matter how hip and=0A>> experimental they claim to be. Bas= ic capitalist exploitation. Right on=0A>> Richard. =E2=80=94 Pierre=0A>>=0A= >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>> f= or years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify themselves with=0A>>= > radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative practices) do=0A>= >> nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and commodity=0A= >>> culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry competitions= =0A>>> engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and fostering= a=0A>>> competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, yes,= =0A>>> competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually exclu= sive).=0A>>>=0A>>> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if on= ly we could weed=0A>>> out a few greedy apples then market-based economies = (cultural and otherwise)=0A>>> would be beneficial to all, no? and who does= n't want to win?=0A>>>=0A>>> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered= a crown | refuse." Charles=0A>>> Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are = badges of mediocrity."=0A>>>=0A>>> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given = to a responsible sense of=0A>>> cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop= appealing to the language of=0A>>> submission. it's incredibly demoralizin= g to see so many poets so willingly=0A>>> "submit" to editors that, more of= ten than not, are about as capable of=0A>>> recognizing productive work as = Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& it's even=0A>>> more reprehensible when edi= tors create a situation that expects others to=0A>>> "submit." man, for peo= ple so attuned to the complexities and the ideological=0A>>> underpinnings = of language i find it utterly astounding that so many=0A>>> gleefully accep= t that language of submission and the practice of=0A>>> competition.=0A>>>= =0A>>> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, right?&= so=0A>>> long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or = class=0A>>> politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to= worry abt=0A>>> how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also= reproduce the=0A>>> logic that guarantees inequality and injustice.=0A>>>= =0A>>>=0A>>> ........richard owens=0A>>> 810 richmond ave=0A>>> buffalo NY = 14222-1167=0A>>>=0A>>> damn the caesars, the journal=0A>>> damn the caesars= , the blog=0A>>>=0A>>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> From: Noah Eli Gordon=0A>>> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition=0A>>> To: POETICS@L= ISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A>>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM=0A>>>=0A>>> = 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of=0A>>> inno= vative writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners will be flown=0A>>= > to the University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in the spring = of=0A>>> 2011.=0A>>>=0A>>> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 p= ages of poetry or up to=0A>>> 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along with = a $20 reading fee and an SASE=0A>>> for notification of results. Please se= e www.subitopress.org for=0A>>> complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press,= English Department, Hellems 101,=0A>>> 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0= 226. Former students, friends and=0A>>> relatives of UCB faculty are inelig= ible.=0A>>>=0A>>> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th= , 2010 (postmark=0A>>> date).=0A>>> _______________________________________= __________________________=0A>>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, = chat and e-mail from your=0A>>> inbox.=0A>>>=0A>>>http://www.windowslive.co= m/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_= 3=0A>>>3=0A>>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>> The Poetics List is modera= ted& does not accept all posts. Check=0A>>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: h= ttp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A= >>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>> The Poetics List is moderated& doe= s not accept all posts. Check=0A>>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: http://epc= buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> "Lyric poetry has to = be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> Pierre Joris=0A>> = cell phone: 518 225 7123=0A>> email: jorpierre@gmail.com=0A>> http://pierre= joris.com=0A>> Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/=0A>> =3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>> The Poeti= cs List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check=0A>> guidelines& s= ub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>= =0A>> No virus found in this incoming message.=0A>> Checked by AVG - www.av= g.com=0A>> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date: = 07/18/10=0A>> 23:36:00=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guide= lines=0A> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>= =0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does no= t accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffal= o.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:19:26 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Lori Emerson Subject: CFP: Steve McCaffery special issue of Open Letter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all - I'm passing this on for a colleague but please do consider submitting or please pass it on to anyone you think might be interested in contributing! best, Lori =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Breakthrough Nostalgia: Reading Steve McCaffery Then and Now As Steve McCaffery approaches his mid-60s, his poetic and critical output shows no signs of abating. Within the last decade, in fact, McCaffery has produced five new collections of poetry, a new collection of critical essays, and three volumes of selected material: Seven Pages Missing Vols. 1 & 2, and Verse and Worse. Yet it has also been nearly 25 years since Open Letter=92s first festschrift on McCaffery appeared, and both the critical community surrounding McCaffery=92s work specifically, and of innovative writing in general, has changed dramatically. Thus, this new issue of Open Letter seeks to examine the changes in the reception of McCaffery=92s work, as well has his own poetic development, over the last quarter century. Intended as a continuum from the first collection of Open Letter essays on McCaffery, this new gathering seeks critical essays (both scholarly and experimental) on any aspect of McCaffery=92s criticism or poetry (including sound, visual, and performance poetry), with a particular interest in writing produced since 1990. Some points of departure, or lines of inquiry may include: - Reassessments of McCaffery early writing or analysis of recent writ= ing - Is there a McCaffery canon? The significance of Teachable Texts, Carnival, or The Black Debt? - McCaffery and digital poetics: his inclusion in Poems for the Millennium Vol. 2 as a cyberpoet? Carnival: Panel 3 as his first self-identified digital work? - McCaffery collaborations (TRG, Nichol, The Four Horsemen, Mac Corma= ck) - McCaffery=92s contributions to theories of translation, sound poetr= y, or pataphysics - McCaffery=92s influence on writers, both younger and contemporary - The concept of nationality in McCaffery=92s career: his internation= al reputation or his interrogation of nationality in assessing literature? - McCaffery and trans-historicism: making the new old, or making the old new? - The critical and theoretical contributions of McCaffery to literary debate Priority will be given to critical writing on McCaffery=92s work, but submissions of poetry or visuals inspired by, or related to the work of, McCaffery will also be considered. Please send proposals/ intentions/ ideas to Stephen Cain by October 1st, 2010. Complete work will be requested by January 2011. --=20 Lori Emerson Assistant Professor | Electropoetics Thread Editor, Electronic Book Review Department of English, University of Colorado at Boulder Hellems 101, 226 UCB, Boulder, CO 80309-0226 http://www.loriemerson.com http://www.electronicbookreview.com http://twitter.com/loriemerson =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 14:34:21 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <598420.86613.qm@web504.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable     Thanks. I like= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Chad,=0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks. I like= the Heideggerian version of this; what comes behind the =0Afundamental "wh= at is,"=C2=A0is an=C2=A0affirmation/acknowledgement of the Other. There are= =0Asome neat clips of Derrida addressing this on YouTube. =0A=0A=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Adam=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr= om: Chad Sweeney =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.B= UFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Mon, July 19, 2010 4:23:49 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay = of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A=0AYes, good essay, Adam, and I agree with Mar= y Jo about the words =E2=80=9Csoul=E2=80=9D and =0A=E2=80=9Cspirit=E2=80=9D= ; =C2=A0and the issue of the spiritual in poetry (or its decay) is an =0Aim= portant one which I continue to feel keenly. In addition to transcendence, = its =0A=0Ainverse (I guess) is immanence, which is another frontier for spi= rituality, the =0Adivine material, the mystery of what "is" of the visible = granite and bark, the =0Aimpenetrable threshold into the material, a miracl= e as grand and as intricate as =0A=0Aany angel=E2=80=99s wing. Oppen (and t= he objectivists generally) are strong in this way, =0A=0Aas is Heidegger, N= ietzsche, Walter Benjamin, and others. Levertov borrows the =0ABuddhist ter= m =E2=80=9Csuchness=E2=80=9D to describe the frogness of the frog, the rock= ness of =0Athe rock, which is another way into spirituality via the real, t= he material. As =0Afor language, perhaps language is the human soul, in the= collective, the alpha =0Aand the omega, quite literally. I think the best = scientists have always been =0Aawestruck by the World, and in this light, t= he noon-light of wonder, it=E2=80=99s =0Apossible to see the material and t= he spiritual in the=C2=A0 same frame.=C2=A0 Forgive my =0Arambling thoughts= =0A=0ACheers,=0AChad=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom= : Mary Jo Malo =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A= Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 1:55:20 PM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituali= ty in Poetry"=0A=0AWonderful essay, Adam. Romantic Deconstructionist poetry= is a possibility.=0AI've come to believe the words 'soul' and 'spirit' are= n't offensive as much=0Aas inadequate for describing our encounter with the= infinite.=0A=0AMary Jo=0A=0A-- =0Ahttp://thisshiningwound.blogspot.com/=0A= http://apophisdeconstructingabsurdity.blogspot.com/=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Chec= k guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.ht= ml=0A=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & d= oes not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.= buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:12:50 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When *Eda*: An Anthology of Contemporary Turkish Poetry edited by me was published, among acknowledgments, I thanked my business at the time Murat Oriental Rugs, Inc. for the financial sacrifices it had to make for the writing of the book. I spent endless hours at my office working on the book= , neglecting my business. That is what it takes to be a poet. I wanted the book to contain a record of that. Ciao, Murat On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > > ... I think Pierre Joris's comment about them being scam affairs comes > from a place of privilege. > > Where do you want me to write from? Can't quit my job in a provincial > upstate English department to answer you, really. Wouldn't know how to pa= y > the rent. Been there for 18 years now, after 20+ freelancing, doing > mimeo-mags, translating for peanuts or less, editing, teaching EFL, > bartending, whatever. It is exactly because of that experience that I fee= l > that I can speak to yours & Amish's posts, & that that's coming from a pl= ace > of experience, not privilege. > > > Although I respect all of the many years he=92s put into poetry, teachi= ng, > translation, etc., it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi notes, for a > young poet to break into the scene. > > It was never easy. It was actually even less easy back when as there was = no > poetry "scene" that offered careers =97 that came about in the eighties & > nineties with the expansion of the MFA programs, with AWP, etc. One never > thought one could make a living at poetry, one paid the rent with whateve= r > job =97 & it would certainly not be poetry related =97 that came to hand.= So the > place of privilege would actually be today when there seem to be so much > available possibilities =97 cf. the ads throughout every issue of AWP mag= . > > > One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet these days without being someh= ow > independently wealthy. > How much money does it take to get an MFA? Enough to live in NYC for the > same amount of years & write poetry & find out if that is what one is goo= d > at and wants to spend one's life doing. That involves a risk of course = =97but > the kind of risk any artist worth her salt needs to take. Of course if y= ou > find out that you are not very good or even any good at all at writing > poetry while doing an MFA, you haven't really lost any of your investment= , > as you will get the degree anyhow and then can still go on & get a job > teaching the writing of poetry for the next 40 years. > > > > > I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better > directed into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email, as > Richard did, by bringing up inequality and injustice, aren't there other > means to more efficaciously address these issues? > I think it is indeed worth arguing about, Noah, because it is exactly the= se > questions that keep coming up while teaching or talking with young poets. > They define in a certain way the political economy of the current situati= on > in the US. (Poets anywhere else, from Paris to Timbuktu, Beijing to Sofia= , > would laugh out loud at the puny problems encountered by well-fed, > well-clothed young Norte Americanos bitching about not getting into some > poetry "scene." The real place of privilege is this country. > > btw, I admire Letter Machine Editions & your description of the economy o= f > it in this post =97 important in fact to do that, explain it publicly. (I= n the > seventies, in London, Allen Fisher would always have an page in the back = of > the books he published that would itemize the exact cost of the book & it= s > relation to the number of copies printed and the price asked per copy.) > > Pierre > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Pierre Joris > cell phone: 518 225 7123 > email: jorpierre@gmail.com > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:53:56 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "can't make an easy equation between competition and acceptable topics" =20 Maybe not easy=2C but concretized ethics value as "prize culture." =20 =20 "editorial incompetence in order to make points about competition and the p= olitics of speech acts" =20 Very much in order: "$" =20 "a challenge to find ways of opting out of submitting to prizes" / "are the= rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and hope somebody= takes notice" =20 No. =20 js http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781609640019/zeros-blooming-excursion.asp= x etc =20 =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:18:00 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Matthew Landis Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The one thing I'd add Pierre, when you address the relative costs of an MFA compared to living in NYC for a similar number of years: The difference is it's far easier to get a loan for an MFA from a bank, or some other institution when yr a 20 something with no collateral and little to no credit history (and if the statistics bear out, if you are a 20 something, chances are yr credit history is awful) than it is to walk into a bank and ask for a comparable loan in order to move to NYC and write poetry for two years. Which isn't to say yr wrong, I agree with many of yr points in fact. After all, fortune favors the brave and all that...still, as it was in the 60's and 70's I'm sure, there's a tremendous amount of volatility that come= s into play in the economic lives of younger poets now. We're extremely vulnerable, especially if we've bought in to the MFA racket. They prey on the sort of competition/prize fed homunculus which is bred inside of you from Kindergarten on and on yr economic vulnerability. I feel like a lot of kids of my generation (I'm 28) get sold into believing that the MFA route i= s the only economically viable route to becoming a writer. There's such an emphasis on "professional" or "career" being the suffix to "writer". Hell, = I bought into it. I didn't attend an MFA, I got my Masters in Liberal Arts at Penn (i certainly didn't get an interdisciplinary degree to advance my career though...I did it because well...I like being a student, I like learning...) but if there's one thing I've learned in my brief time trying to participate in and grow WITH the scene here in Philadelphia it's that I hope I stay an amateur forever. After all, the Latin route "amo" implies love. If I ever stop loving poetry and it becomes PRIMARILY a career for me (I still think it's a valid and admirable thing to spend yr life doing as a vocation or even a professional vocation), I hope someone has the good sens= e and compassion to put me out of my misery. On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > > ... I think Pierre Joris's comment about them being scam affairs comes > from a place of privilege. > > Where do you want me to write from? Can't quit my job in a provincial > upstate English department to answer you, really. Wouldn't know how to pa= y > the rent. Been there for 18 years now, after 20+ freelancing, doing > mimeo-mags, translating for peanuts or less, editing, teaching EFL, > bartending, whatever. It is exactly because of that experience that I fee= l > that I can speak to yours & Amish's posts, & that that's coming from a pl= ace > of experience, not privilege. > > > Although I respect all of the many years he=92s put into poetry, teachi= ng, > translation, etc., it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi notes, for a > young poet to break into the scene. > > It was never easy. It was actually even less easy back when as there was = no > poetry "scene" that offered careers =97 that came about in the eighties & > nineties with the expansion of the MFA programs, with AWP, etc. One never > thought one could make a living at poetry, one paid the rent with whateve= r > job =97 & it would certainly not be poetry related =97 that came to hand.= So the > place of privilege would actually be today when there seem to be so much > available possibilities =97 cf. the ads throughout every issue of AWP mag= . > > > One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet these days without being someh= ow > independently wealthy. > How much money does it take to get an MFA? Enough to live in NYC for the > same amount of years & write poetry & find out if that is what one is goo= d > at and wants to spend one's life doing. That involves a risk of course = =97but > the kind of risk any artist worth her salt needs to take. Of course if y= ou > find out that you are not very good or even any good at all at writing > poetry while doing an MFA, you haven't really lost any of your investment= , > as you will get the degree anyhow and then can still go on & get a job > teaching the writing of poetry for the next 40 years. > > > > > I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better > directed into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email, as > Richard did, by bringing up inequality and injustice, aren't there other > means to more efficaciously address these issues? > I think it is indeed worth arguing about, Noah, because it is exactly the= se > questions that keep coming up while teaching or talking with young poets. > They define in a certain way the political economy of the current situati= on > in the US. (Poets anywhere else, from Paris to Timbuktu, Beijing to Sofia= , > would laugh out loud at the puny problems encountered by well-fed, > well-clothed young Norte Americanos bitching about not getting into some > poetry "scene." The real place of privilege is this country. > > btw, I admire Letter Machine Editions & your description of the economy o= f > it in this post =97 important in fact to do that, explain it publicly. (I= n the > seventies, in London, Allen Fisher would always have an page in the back = of > the books he published that would itemize the exact cost of the book & it= s > relation to the number of copies printed and the price asked per copy.) > > Pierre > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Pierre Joris > cell phone: 518 225 7123 > email: jorpierre@gmail.com > http://pierrejoris.com > Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:28:38 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Brian Clements Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 While I appreciate the reservations many poets have about contest culture (= especially after the whole Foetry thing a few years ago), and while there i= s no doubt that there are outfits out there taking improper advantage of th= at culture, I don't think ALL small presses out there running contests have= dubious motives--in fact, I run two awards myself at Firewheel (the Senten= ce Book Award and the Firewheel Chapbook Award) in addition to publishing S= entence and unsolicited book manuscripts. I'm sure many other folks on this= list who aren't speaking up run contests and awards as well. First, many (most?) small presses are run as nonprofits on an entirely volu= nteer basis. Many of them, like Noah's press and like Firewheel was when I = first started, are run mostly out of the editor's pocket, without support f= rom a university and without NEA or state grant moneys. So to imply that th= ese presses somehow are pouring contest money into their editors' own pocke= ts simply isn't the case in most instances. The funds from contest fees, if= there is any left after publication of the winning title, is poured back i= nto other titles, which the press would be unable to publish without those = funds. So there actually is an element of the co-op in many of these small = presses; I would hope that entrants in such contests actually KNOW the pres= ses to which they are sending their work and can take some satisfaction in = knowing that if they themselves are not offered publication, they are suppo= rting a press they admire and helping that press to publish other worthy wo= rk. Isn't that what a co-op is? The Firewheel Chapbook Award, for example, is dedicated to publishing work = that is difficult to place for publication due to format, typography, whate= ver reason. Our last publication was a box with cover art and loose leaf pr= inted pages, Marjorie Tesser's poem/game _The important thing is..._. I wou= ld hope that the folks who entered and whom we did not publish feel that th= ey contributed to the publication of Marjorie's title, because they did. It= wouldn't have happened without them. The Sentence Book Award, which is dev= oted to prose poetry, appeals to a specific audience who form a kind of co-= op in expressing their support for their fellow prose poets, for Sentence a= nd for Firewheel with their entries. Is there really a difference between s= ending an entry fee to a publisher you admire and sending a small donation? Maybe one would argue that no publisher should be publishing who can't affo= rd to do so without the contest structure. One might argue that there are t= oo many books anyway and these contests are publishing work that aren't wor= thy of publication. And my response would be to challenge you to read Marjo= rie's _The important thing is..._ or Catherine Sasanov's _Had Slaves_ and s= ee if you still feel that way--I'm sure the same applies to many award-winn= ing books that I didn't publish as well... If Firewheel ever is successful enough (that is, has enough ongoing sales o= f existing titles) to support these awards without fees, then we will run t= hem for free or cease the awards and just publish more books that come over= the transom, that would be great! Just as we'd love to be able to pay all = of our contributors gobs of money every time we print their work in Sentenc= e. But until that time, we feel like we're providing a service to a certain= audience by doing things the way we do them. And it sure as hell hasn't gi= ven me any kind of career boost, I can tell you that! What it has done for = me personally, though, is give me an opportunity to get to know many excell= ent people who are interested in building respectful relationships through = books, journals, and poems. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:48:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Just an idea: as list after list descends into exchanges of marketing info. or announcements of products and events that are part of our culture of mini-celebrity, and now that facebook and blogs are also going that way, perhaps it might be time to return to critical/aesthetic debates? For example, I haven't replied to Adam's post because I think it might be more appropriate for me to write (as I mention on my blog, which I don't "market" -- I made it as a sort of blog in 2002? when? that isn't in the direction blogging went -- ) a more positively-positioned summary of my ideas about how the ideas of soul and spirit might be entirely inappropriate for poetry -- but because this list was so contentious in the past, also, there's no way I could really post what I think here. Maybe there's a new way? Something more descriptive and anecdotal, less like the poetry we write? To write poetry is to be on the margins, but to write experimental poetry, more so, and to spend most of the days and nights locked outside of both the academic/critical realm and the mainstream poetry realm is painful, and to have a different aesthetic -- or even be in a different place in life, or to be tired of "building a following" -- from the local poetry coteries -- is painful as well. And within experimental poetry. I know for me, the lists were a balm at one time. I was so isolated, working as a manager for institutions squandering billions of dollars and creating the recessions. Including schools: isn't it great that art resists professionalism? The familiar? Isn't it nice to be able to see when a work is really vacuous and another is really interesting? That unlike composition, creative writing remains relevant to the way people have to communicate after their last paper is due? That arts, criticism, and theory is the last revenge of the amateur? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I pretty much echo the sentiments of this and=20 Pierre's previous messages. Let's be real=20 specific about the privilege of age. To the=20 extent that I'm known, despite my usual lack of=20 attention to beyond a very small public, it's=20 because, purely for love of the art, aside from=20 writing and getting my own work published, I've=20 edited anthologies, published a magazine and a=20 press, translated, run readings, etc., for almost=20 50 years. Pierre, who's far better known, has an=20 even longer list of services over almost as long=20 a period of time: add for him journalism in=20 several languages, radio shows ditto.=20 Recoignition has been a by-product, regardless of=20 whether it was wanted. When a twenty-something or=20 even a thirty-something complains about not being=20 known I want to know what he or she is looking=20 for, why they need fame, such as it is for poets,=20 so young. Do they think it's like being a rock=20 star? Do they think the craft is so easily learned? At 09:09 AM 7/20/2010, you wrote: >On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Noah Eli Gordon wrote: > > ... I think Pierre Joris's comment about them=20 > being scam affairs comes from a place of privilege. > >Where do you want me to write from? Can't quit=20 >my job in a provincial upstate English=20 >department to answer you, really. Wouldn't know=20 >how to pay the rent. Been there for 18 years=20 >now, after 20+ freelancing, doing mimeo-mags,=20 >translating for peanuts or less, editing,=20 >teaching EFL, bartending, whatever. It is=20 >exactly because of that experience that I feel=20 >that I can speak to yours & Amish's posts, &=20 >that that's coming from a place of experience, not privilege. > > > Although I respect all of the many years he=92s=20 > put into poetry, teaching, translation, etc.,=20 > it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi=20 > notes, for a young poet to break into the scene. > >It was never easy. It was actually even less=20 >easy back when as there was no poetry "scene"=20 >that offered careers =97 that came about in the=20 >eighties & nineties with the expansion of the=20 >MFA programs, with AWP, etc. One never thought=20 >one could make a living at poetry, one paid the=20 >rent with whatever job =97 & it would certainly=20 >not be poetry related =97 that came to hand. So=20 >the place of privilege would actually be today=20 >when there seem to be so much available=20 >possibilities =97 cf. the ads throughout every issue of AWP mag. > > > One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet=20 > these days without being somehow independently wealthy. >How much money does it take to get an MFA?=20 >Enough to live in NYC for the same amount of=20 >years & write poetry & find out if that is what=20 >one is good at and wants to spend one's life=20 >doing. That involves a risk of course =97but the=20 >kind of risk any artist worth her salt needs to=20 >take. Of course if you find out that you are not=20 >very good or even any good at all at writing=20 >poetry while doing an MFA, you haven't really=20 >lost any of your investment, as you will get the=20 >degree anyhow and then can still go on & get a=20 >job teaching the writing of poetry for the next 40 years. > > > > > I just think the energy expended in arguing=20 > about this would be better directed into actual=20 > action. I mean if you're going to end your=20 > email, as Richard did, by bringing up=20 > inequality and injustice, aren't there other=20 > means to more efficaciously address these issues? >I think it is indeed worth arguing about, Noah,=20 >because it is exactly these questions that keep=20 >coming up while teaching or talking with young=20 >poets. They define in a certain way the=20 >political economy of the current situation in=20 >the US. (Poets anywhere else, from Paris to=20 >Timbuktu, Beijing to Sofia, would laugh out loud=20 >at the puny problems encountered by well-fed,=20 >well-clothed young Norte Americanos bitching=20 >about not getting into some poetry "scene." The=20 >real place of privilege is this country. > >btw, I admire Letter Machine Editions & your=20 >description of the economy of it in this post =97=20 >important in fact to do that, explain it=20 >publicly. (In the seventies, in London, Allen=20 >Fisher would always have an page in the back of=20 >the books he published that would itemize the=20 >exact cost of the book & its relation to the=20 >number of copies printed and the price asked per copy.) > >Pierre >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >"Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Pierre Joris >cell phone: 518 225 7123 >email: jorpierre@gmail.com >http://pierrejoris.com >Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 22:07:52 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Noah Eli Gordon Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Richard's email was in response to the announcement I'd posted here, = I can't help but take his comment about the lack of editorial acumen as = personal, even if it included the "more often that not" caveat. Subito = Press was founded at the University of Colorado-Boulder by my colleague = Elisabeth Sheffield. It's not "my" press. I was simply passing on an = announcement about it. Like Richard, I've been frustrated in the past by = what I perceived of as a dearth of uninteresting work being brought into = the world. But rather than grip about it, I decided, along with a friend = to found a press (http://www.lettermachine.org/catalog.html) that would = function as a sort of polemic, where our books would collectively make = an argument for what we see as representative of the work being done = that is wholly valuable for the state of (& future of) the art.=20 =20 Letter Machine Editions does not have a contest. We did, however, have = an open reading period recently, one where we asked for $10. For this = $10, we offered to mail any title from our backlist to whomever = submitted. The cost of a mailing envelop is around one dollar. The cost = to mail the book is about two dollars. The actual cost per book, the = amount we pay to publish each book, including all fees, shipping, = charges to list the book with SPD, designer fees, etc. ranges from about = $4 to $8 per book (our full-length titles are offset pressed, not = digit), for a total cost of from $7 to $11 dollars. This is to say we = are not making money off of our reading fees, rather we're getting our = books out into the world and getting a chance to see work by folks we = might not otherwise see. I've personally already gone over $5,000 into = debt, and had to open up new credit cards, just to fund this press. Not = for some sort of careerist gain, but because I believe in the books = we=92re publishing & want to see them move into the world.=20 =20 That said, I realize that the initial response to my email was more of = an attack on the contest system. Yes, I also think it has its faults. = But no, I don't think those poet who've won contests really care all = that much about the contest itself. It's more of a means to simply get = the work into the world. I mean, even John Latta, who commented here is = a book contest winner. Here are a few more off the top of my head:=20 =20 Nathaniel Mackey Juliana Spahr Cole Swensen Elizabeth Willis John Ashbery Rodrigo Toscano Ange Mlinko Joshua Clover Ed Roberson John Yau Laura Mullen Graham Foust Jena Osman Laynie Browne Eleni Sikelianos Elizabeth Robinson =20 Maybe these people would shun contest now, but that's because they've = had the opportunity to establish themselves in some (& not always so) = small way through having won one. This is why I think Pierre Joris's = comment about them being scam affairs comes from a place of privilege. = Although I respect all of the many years he=92s put into poetry, = teaching, translation, etc., it's just not that easy, as Amish Trivedi = notes, for a young poet to break into the scene. Yes, I'm an advocate = for starting your own press and journal, both of which I did. But for = folks not lucky enough to live in a city with a large, active poetry = community, or to study at a school like the University of Buffalo (as = Richard did), with its instant community and funding for student-editing = projects, it can be a daunting thing. Yes, creating alterative market = systems is one answer. I think we all think Sub Press is pretty amazing. = But the problem is much deeper than the tiny market systems of poetry. = One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet these days without being somehow = independently wealthy. That wasn't always the case, tho.=20 =20 I just think the energy expended in arguing about this would be better = directed into actual action. I mean if you're going to end your email, = as Richard did, by bringing up inequality and injustice, aren't there = other means to more efficaciously address these issues?=20 =20 --Noah =20 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your = inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check = guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:33:40 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nic Sebastian Subject: Ten Questions on Poets and Technology: Sandra Beasley In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sandra Beasley responds this week to Ten Questions on Poets and Technology = - http://bit.ly/aKK8Ws.=20 Series' standing page: http://bit.ly/c0aBUb Best=2C Nic Nic Sebastianhttp://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:02:22 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Compton, Degentesh, Downing, Gardner, Gordon, Mesmer, Sullivan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thursday July 22=2C 6:00pm - 8:00pm We-Are-Familia Pop Up Gallery & Event Space 539 Atlantic Avenue=2CBrooklyn=2C NYhttp://www.we-are-familia.com/ On Thursday=2C July 22=2C WE-ARE-FAMILIA Gallery will host a gathering of flarf poets. Flarf is an international avant-garde poetry move= ment of the late 20th century / early 21st century whose 30+ practitioners explo= re =93the inappropriate=94 in all of its guises. Their method is to mine the I= nternet with odd search terms then distill the results into often hilarious and sometimes disturbing poems=2C plays=2C and other texts. Recently profiled o= n the front page of The Wall Street Journal=2C the flarf collective create hilari= ous=2C shocking=2C and sometimes downright offensive works. Heated discussions abo= ut flarf have been broadcast by the BBC and National Public Radio=2C and publi= shed in The Village Voice=2C The Nation=2C Poetry=2C Poets & Writers=2C and The = Wall Street Journal. =93Flarf is a hip=2C digital reaction to... boring=2C gente= el poetry=2C=94 writes poet and critic Marjorie Perloff. Whatever flarf is=96= =96whatever you think flarf is=96=96it is most definitely the 21st century=91s first po= etry movement. Host and flarfista Sharon Mesmer will introduce some of the collective's New York members: Shanna Compton (For Girls)=2C Katie Degentesh (The Anger Scale)=2C Nada Gordon (Folly)=2C Gary Sullivan (PPL In A Depot)=2C Brandon Downing (Lake Antiquity)=2C and Drew Gardner (Petroleum Hat). WE-ARE-FAMILIA is an extensive global network of creative individuals from all disciplines who have come together to explore the powerful=2C complex ties which consciously and unconsciously touch all that= we experience as humans. Spearheaded by Creative Director Jennifer Garcia=2C t= heir primary ongoing project is a series of 25 one-of-a-kind Keepsake Boxes showcasing original =93mementos=94 engaging the con...cept of family. =20 WE-ARE-FAMILIA=2C with help from sponsors Art Assets=2C Atlantic Assets=2C and GFI Realty=2C have recently transformed a raw=2C formerly vac= ant storefront on Atlantic Avenue into an open studio where they will continue assembling new Keepsake Boxes including a special commission for the Museum= of Art and Design. The space additionally functions as a gallery to exhibit ne= w works by Keepsake Box contributors as well as a free event space which aims= to extend their family dialogue. The space opened its doors on June 11th=2C 20= 10=2C during Atlantic Avenue ArtWalk and has since had a showing of Jeff Lewis=92= meticulous pencil grid drawings as well as electronic performances by Mitchell Akiyama= and Nina Mehta of bands First Nation and Rings from Animal Collective=92s Paw T= racks label. =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:28:32 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: Boog City presents Eleven Eleven and Churchill Downs Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit please forward ------------------ Boog City presents d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press Eleven Eleven (San Francisco) Tues., July 27, 6:00 p.m. sharp, free ACA Galleries 529 W. 20th St., 5th Flr. NYC Event will be hosted by Eleven Eleven editor Hugh Behm-Steinberg Featuring readings from J. Mae Barizo Suzanne Gardinier Steven Karl Amy King and music from Churchill Downs There will be wine, cheese, and crackers, too. Curated and with an introduction by Boog City editor David Kirschenbaum ------ **Eleven Eleven http://www.elevenelevenjournal.com/ Eleven Eleven is a biannual journal of literature and art based at California College of the Arts in San Francisco. The aim of the publication is to provide a forum for risk and experimentation and to serve as an exchange between writers and artists. Founded by Youmna Chlala and Gayle Romasanta, since 2007 Eleven Eleven has been edited by Hugh Behm-Steinberg and the students of CCA's M.F.A. Writing Program. **J. Mae Barizo Born in Toronto, J. Mae Barizo was shortlisted for Canada's Robert Kroetsch award for Innovative Poetry and Ahsahta Press's Sawtooth Poetry Prize. New work appears in Prairie Schooner, Denver Quarterly, and Bellingham Review. She is the author of two chapbooks, The Concert Review and The Marble Palace. **Churchill Downs http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Churchill-Downs/ 127643877255339?v=wall&ref=search From the stable of Postparade, Churchill Downs have recorded a CDR called Paddock. Churchill Downs has done shows at Goodbye Blue Monday, Webster Hall, and Sidewalk Cafe. **Suzanne Gardinier Suzanne Gardinier is the author of Today: 101 Ghazals, the long poem Dialogue with the Archipelago, and the forthcoming Iridium & Selected Poems, all from Sheep Meadow Press. She teaches at Sarah Lawrence College and lives in Manhattan. **Steven Karl http://stevenkarl.blogspot.com/ Steven Karl is the author of State(s) of Flux, a collaborative chapbook with Joseph Lappie (Peptic Robot Press), (Ir)Rational Animals (Flying Guillotine Press), and Saturday(s) (forthcoming from Scantily Clad Press). He is a frequent poetry reviewer for Sink Review and Coldfront Magazine. He lives in Chinatown, NYC. **Amy King http://amyking.org/ Amy King's most recent book is Slaves to Do These Things (Blazevox), and forthcoming, I Want to Make You Safe (Litmus Press). She is currently preparing a book of interviews with the poet Ron Padgett. She also teaches English and creative writing at SUNY Nassau Community College. With Ana Bozicevic, King co-curates the Brooklyn-based reading series, The Stain of Poetry. ---- Directions: C/E to 23rd St., 1/9 to 18th St. Venue is bet. 10th and 11th avenues Next event: Tues. Sept. 28 Satellite Telephone http://nolongdistance.endingthealphabet.org/ (Buffalo) Robert Dewhurst, ed. -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=343169880 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 11:27:54 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Damn the Caesars vol. N &c MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing FOUR new publications: http://damnthecaesars.org/ 1. DAMN THE CAESARS vol. N ($15.00)=20 NEW WRITING: Keston Sutherland, Justin Katko, Emily Critchley, Luke Roberts= , Francesca Lisette, Dale Smith, Geoffrey Gatza, Josh Stanley, Frances Kruk= , David Hadbawnik, Carrie Etter, Francis Crot, and Rosa Alcala. =A0 =A0=20 FEATURE: New writing and 6 full-color visual pieces from Allen Fisher =0Afo= llowed by an extended consideration of Allen Fisher's work by Pierre Joris.= =A0=20 ESSAY: Dennis Tedlock on Alcheringa's relationship to Language Writing.=20 TRANSLATION: The Papyrus of Ani translated by Steve McCaffery; writing from= Egyptian poet Ahmed Abdel Muti Hijazi translated by Rick London and Omnia = Amin.=A0=20 =0A http://damnthecaesars.org/punchpress.html 2. DALE SMITH | JOSIAH WILBARGER: 1833 ($5.00) Scalped in Texas, 1833. Survived some years. Skull half exposed. Single poe= m. Letterpress. Bare black bristol wraps. Hand-stitched. 4 pages.=A0=20 3. MARIANNE MORRIS | TOO FEW RICHARDS TOO MANY DICKS ($5.00) "Father, Goon and Executive Fucker." Single poem. Letterpress. Black bristo= l wraps. Hand-stitched. 8 pages.=20 4. CARRIE ETTER | DIVINATIONS ($10.00) Twenty from Divinations for Starters (forthcoming from Shearsman). Two-colo= r letterpress on Fabriano Tiziano folded over black bristol wraps. Hand-sti= tched. Cover image: adaptation of Lee Bontecou's untitled 1993 mixed-media = sculpture. 24 pages.=A0=0A=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:10:18 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nana Zabic Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. unestablished poets, MFA/AWP generation vs. pre-MFA/AWP generation. First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the former, and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on the table. But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are nowadays, being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers that be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep writing, reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) Nana Zabic P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run the journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, and how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; no silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the word "submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent nepotism (I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, we might have fee+prize contest in the future... P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. You get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble for a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard to generalize. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:14:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nana Zabic Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ****Wait, I need to correct something here. Sorry. (Note to self, always proofread meticulously.)**** Corrected version: I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. unestablished poets, pre-MFA/AWP generation vs. MFA/AWP generation. First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the former, and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on the table. But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are nowadays, being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers that be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep writing, reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) Nana Zabic P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run the journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, and how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; no silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the word "submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent nepotism (I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, we might have fee+prize contest in the future... P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. You get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble for a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard to generalize. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:45:17 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "Tribbey, Hugh R." Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: A MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Three cheers. -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List (UPenn, UB) [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Mark Weiss Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 4:50 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition Send work to journals you admire. And don't think=20 of it as a career. What matters is the=20 conversation with one's peers, and with the history of the craft. Best, Mark At 04:27 PM 7/19/2010, you wrote: >Just do it yourself- > >http://withplusstand.blogspot.com > >- > >DTG > >On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:28 PM, Amish Trivedi wrote: > > > What I still wonder, though, is: > > > > What else are younger poets supposed to do? Which door does one stick one's > > foot into in the hopes of keeping it open? > > > > I feel like I hear a lot of anti-reading period/submission stuff from > > people > > who are further ahead in their careers. > > > > Are the rest of us just supposed to work quietly in our bedrooms and hope > > somebody takes notice? > > > > Amish > > > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Brian Seabolt wrote: > > > > > it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many > > > poets so willingly "submit" to editors that, more often than not, > > > are about as capable of recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula > > > or Simon Cowell. > > > > > > Who? > > > > > > ______________________________ > > > > > > While he read Moll held a little aloof, > > > with downcast eyes, saying to herself, > > > Now he's at the part where, and a little > > > later, Now he's at the part where, and > > > so remained until the rustle of the sheet > > > going back into the envelope announced > > > that he had finished. > > > > > > Samuel Beckett, Malone Dies______________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Search for products and services at: > > > http://search.mail.com > > > > > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss' fragments are=20 like Chekhov's short stories-the more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain... One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody...[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:14:07 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Unnatural Acts in Los Angeles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A series of text pro= NOT CONTENT=0Ahttp://www.notcontent.lesfigues.com=0A=0AA series of text pro= jects curated by Les Figues Press =0Aas part of Los Angeles Contemporary Ex= hibitions=0Ayear-long initiative Public Interest=0A=0AUNNATURAL ACTS=0AJuly= 21-August 11=0ALos Angeles, California=0A=0ATaking its name from the histo= ric collaborative writing marathons led by Bernadette Mayer and others in N= YC during 1972-73, Unnatural Acts will explore the themes of hunger, war, a= nd desire through public acts of collaboration. =0A=0ABeginning with two d= ays of installation and performance by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin, a gr= oup of eleven writers/artists will gather on the third day to write togethe= r over the course of eight hours. In a daily ritual inaugurated on the fou= rth day, the outline of a new person=E2=80=99s body will be traced onto the= bodies of text until the exhibit closes on August 11th.=0A=0AALL EVENTS OP= EN TO THE PUBLIC - 6522 Hollywood Blvd=0Ahttp://www.welcometolace.org/event= s/view/unnatural-acts=0A=0AJuly 21: Amina Cain =0AInstallation (12-5)=0AHun= ger Texts Read in the Dark performance (5-5:30pm) =0A=0AJuly 22: Jennifer K= armin=0AInstallation (12-5)=0A4000 Words 4000 Dead street performance (5-6p= m) =0A=0AJuly 23: Unnatural Acts=0A8 hours of collaborative writing (12-8pm= )=0ACollaborators include: Harold Abramowitz, Tisa Bryant, Amina Cain, Tere= sa Carmody, Saehee Cho, Kate Durbin, K. Lorraine Graham, Jennifer Karmin, L= aida Lertxundi, India Radfar, and Mark Wallace.=0A=0AJuly 24: Presentations= =0AArtists=E2=80=99 Talk (2-3pm)=0ACollaborative Reading (4-6pm)=0AReaders = include: Harold Abramowitz, Tisa Bryant, Amina Cain, Teresa Carmody, Kate D= urbin, K. Lorraine Graham, Jennifer Karmin, India Radfar, and Mark Wallace.= =0A=0AAMINA CAIN is the author of the short story collection I Go To Some H= ollow (Les Figues Press, 2009), and a forthcoming chapbook, Tramps Everywhe= re (Insert Press/PARROT SERIES). A recording of her story =E2=80=9CAttache= d to a Self=E2=80=9D was included in the group show A Diamond in the Mud at= Literaturhaus Basel in Switzerland in 2008; other work has appeared in pub= lications such as 3rd Bed, Action Yes, Denver Quarterly, onedit, Sidebrow, = and Wreckage of Reason: Xxperimental Prose by Women Writers. She lives in = Los Angeles.=0Ahttp://aminacain.com=0A=0AJENNIFER KARMIN's text-sound epic,= Aaaaaaaaaaalice, was published by Flim Forum Press in 2010. She curates th= e Red Rover Series and is co-founder of the public art group Anti Gravity S= urprise. Her multidisciplinary projects have been presented across the U.S= ., Japan, and Kenya. A proud member of the Dusie Kollektiv, she is the auth= or of the Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disembodying Katrina. Walking Poem, a c= ollaborative street project, is featured online at How2. In Chicago, Jennif= er teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman College and works as a = Poet-in-Residence for the public schools. http://aaaaaaaaaaalice.blogspot.= com=0A=0ACOLLABORATORS:=0A=0AHarold Abramowitz's recent publications includ= e Not Blessed (Les Figues Press) and A House on a Hill {A House on a Hill, = Part One} (Insert Press). Harold writes collaboratively as part of SAM OR S= AMANTHA YAMS and UNFO, and co-edits the short-form literary press eohippus = labs. http://www.eohippuslabs.com=0A=0ATisa Bryant is author of Unexplaine= d Presence (Leon Works, 2007), co-editor, with Ernest Hardy, of the antholo= gy War Diaries (AIDS Project Los Angeles, 2010), co-editor of The Encyclope= dia Project's Encyclopedia Vol. 2 F-K, due out Fall 2010, and has work fort= hcoming in Animal Shelter 2 and Mixed Blood. Her creative process demands = she write longhand, one of her favorite words is 'autochthonous,' and she t= eaches in the MFA Writing Program at CalArts. http://www.encyclopediaproje= ct.org=0A=0ATeresa Carmody is the author of Requiem (Les Figues Press, 2005= ), and two chapbooks: Eye Hole Adore (PS Books, 2008), and Your Spiritual = Suit of Armor by Katherine Anne (Woodland Editions, 2009). She lives in Los= Angeles and is co-director of Les Figues Press. http://www.lesfigues.com/= lfp/24/requiem=0A=0ASaehee Cho holds a BA in Literature/Writing from The Un= iversity of California, San Diego and an MFA in Writing from Calarts. She = has just completed her first collection of short stories tentatively titled= Form, Composite. Her work has been featured in Shrapnel and Ex Nihilo. ht= tp://www.thesproutandthebean.com=0A=0AKate Durbin is a writer & fashion art= ist. Her full-length collection of poetry, The Ravenous Audience, is availa= ble from Akashic Books. http://www.katedurbin.blogspot.com=0A=0AK. Lorrai= ne Graham is the author of Terminal Humming (Edge Books). Visual work appea= red in the 2008 Zaoem International Poetry Exhibition at the Minardschouwbu= rg, Gent, Belgium and the Infusoria visual poetry exhibition in Brussels an= d Ghent, 2009. http://www.spooksbyme.org=0A =0ALaida Lertxundi, (Bilbao, S= pain) works on film making non-stories with non-actors that play with diege= tic space and a particular sound and image syntax to create moments of down= time, of a time between events. Her work has been shown at MoMa, Lacma, Vie= nnale and the New York Film Festival views of the Avant Garde among other p= laces. http://www.laidalertxundi.net=0A=0AIndia Radfar is the author of fo= ur books of poetry: India Poem (Pir Press), the desire to meet with the bea= utiful (Tender Buttons Press), Breathe (Shivastan Publications) and most re= cently, Position & Relation (Station Hill/Barrytown Books) and one chapbook= , 12 Poems That Were Never Written (Mind Made Books). She has lived in Los = Angeles for the past 6 years. http://www.stationhill.org/authors/profile/2= 30-India_Hixon_Radfar=0A =0AMark Wallace is the author and editor of more t= han fifteen books and chapbooks of poetry, fiction, and essays. Most recent= ly he has published a collection of tales, Walking Dreams, and a book of po= ems, Felonies of Illusion. http://wallacethinksagain.blogspot.com=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:43:31 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable So this afternoon I am trying to catch up with the magazines that have = accumulated around my table and come across this, by Jennifer Moxley =97 = from Fragments of a Broken Poetics =97 in the latest issue of Chicago = Review (55:2, spring 2010), which speaks to what we have been discussing = in this thread: "Publication, popularity, and prizes. All three are unreliable measures = of value. In fact, any indicator of poetics worth that is immediately = perceptible to people who care nothing of poetry is likely to be, in = some part, false." =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Pierre Joris =20 cell phone: 518 225 7123 = =20 email: jorpierre@gmail.com http://pierrejoris.com Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:36:33 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David-Baptiste Chirot Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <659443.30269.qm@web53604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Adam-many thanks for your sharing the essay-- a thought: historically=2C the USA is a nation based on spirtiuality & mat= erialism being intimately interrelated ("In God We Trust" on the money--) also my sense of Marxist readings by poets in the US has been it is not ver= y well thought through=2C not well enough read in the original writings of = both the "Early/Romantic" Marx and the later "Scientific" Marx-- as well as the "Traditions of Modern Leftism" including Situationism-- Marx is an excellent writer--i wish i read German much better!!--many passa= ges of poetry in his works even in the French and English editions i have r= ead-- i have been corresponding with a fellow Russian Sound/Visual/Asemic poet wh= o is a fanatic abt the place of philosphy in the face of the hells of the = current world-- like many he has taken the route laid out--there are many--by Gilles Deleuz= e-- a problem facing language used in the USA today is that of "Torture: Cance= r of Democracy" as a great book on France-Algeria 1944-62 by Pierre Vidal-N= aquet calls it-- and the Orwellian demands of language used in order to accommodate support = for Apartheid -- with the Taoist Chung Tzu ("Look under your feet!")-- and my ancestors her= e tens of thousands of years in the Americas i wd say we have lost the sens= e of the ground beneath our feet--of the Earth-- when we begin to lose the Mother--we see it every day what is happening--fr= om the oil spill to everywhere any town usa-- often the thing in front of one is the lesson to be learned from thank you again-- onwo/ards!! david-bc =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:52:35 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition and the State of .... In-Reply-To: <70BD82E7-F616-412B-AAC8-30BBB82D71F6@me.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I hope someone is recording this exchange and will make it into a book. Th= is has been a fascinating and anguished discussion of the vocation, just l= ike the plight of visual artists.=0A=0AMy trajectory is a bit like Pierre'= s, but with less publication: a journal here, an odd anthology there, occa= sional readings, a growing pile of poems to be put into some retrospective= volume (after 50 years of writing poetry). And income from a separate car= eer (teaching French). =EF=BB=BF=0A=0AIn some ways, my participation in th= e Lettriste artist group in France has been the most rewarding: group show= s, monthly meetings in Paris (when I could make it) and occasional publica= tion of my works (their imprint, my expense).=0A=0AThe only thing I can of= fer is the familiar exhortation: just do it. Today I saw a video of downhi= ll skateboarders, who put up their hay bales and let it fly. Poets, do the= same. Just let it fly. Some of us will be discovered 50 years after our d= eath; meanwhile, leave some traces.=0A=0ADavid=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.= =0Ahttp://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow m= y Twitter poetry at dseaman40=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poe= m: =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 20 = Jul, 2010,at 03:43 PM, Pierre Joris wrote:=0A=0A> So = this afternoon I am trying to catch up with the magazines that have accumu= lated around my table and come across this, by Jennifer Moxley =E2=80=94 f= rom Fragments of a Broken Poetics =E2=80=94 in the latest issue of Chicago= Review (55:2, spring 2010), which speaks to what we have been discussing = in this thread:=0A>=0A> "Publication, popularity, and prizes. All three ar= e unreliable measures of value. In fact, any indicator of poetics worth th= at is immediately perceptible to people who care nothing of poetry is like= ly to be, in some part, false."=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> "Lyric poetry has to be exo= rbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> Pierre Joris=0A> cell phone= : 518 225 7123=0A> email: jorpierre@gmail.com=0A> http://pierrejoris.com=0A= > Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A= >=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does= not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffa= lo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:55:08 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I use the same arguments for doing study abroad during college, not after.= =0A=0ADWS=EF=BB=BF=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://personal.georgiaso= uthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetry at dseaman4= 0=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com= /watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 20 Jul, 2010,at 03:18 PM, Matth= ew Landis wrote:=0A=0A> The one thing I'd a= dd Pierre, when you address the relative costs of an MFA=0A> compared to l= iving in NYC for a similar number of years: The difference is=0A> it's far= easier to get a loan for an MFA from a bank, or some other=0A> institutio= n when yr a 20 something with no collateral and little to no=0A> credit hi= story (and if the statistics bear out, if you are a 20 something,=0A> chan= ces are yr credit history is awful) than it is to walk into a bank and=0A>= ask for a comparable loan in order to move to NYC and write poetry for tw= o=0A> years. Which isn't to say yr wrong, I agree with many of yr points i= n fact.=0A> After all, fortune favors the brave and all that...still, as i= t was in the=0A> 60's and 70's I'm sure, there's a tremendous amount of vo= latility that comes=0A> into play in the economic lives of younger poets n= ow. We're extremely=0A> vulnerable, especially if we've bought in to the M= FA racket. They prey on=0A> the sort of competition/prize fed homunculus w= hich is bred inside of you=0A> from Kindergarten on and on yr economic vul= nerability. I feel like a lot of=0A> kids of my generation (I'm 28) get so= ld into believing that the MFA route is=0A> the only economically viable r= oute to becoming a writer. There's such an=0A> emphasis on "professional" = or "career" being the suffix to "writer". Hell, I=0A> bought into it. I di= dn't attend an MFA, I got my Masters in Liberal Arts at=0A> Penn (i certai= nly didn't get an interdisciplinary degree to advance my=0A> career though= ..I did it because well...I like being a student, I like=0A> learning...)= but if there's one thing I've learned in my brief time trying=0A> to part= icipate in and grow WITH the scene here in Philadelphia it's that I=0A> ho= pe I stay an amateur forever. After all, the Latin route "amo" implies=0A>= love. If I ever stop loving poetry and it becomes PRIMARILY a career for = me=0A> (I still think it's a valid and admirable thing to spend yr life do= ing as a=0A> vocation or even a professional vocation), I hope someone has= the good sense=0A> and compassion to put me out of my misery.=0A>=0A> On = Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Pierre Joris wrote:=0A>= =0A> > On Jul 19, 2010, at 11:07 PM, Noah Eli Gordon wrote:=0A> > > ... I = think Pierre Joris's comment about them being scam affairs comes=0A> > fro= m a place of privilege.=0A> >=0A> > Where do you want me to write from? Ca= n't quit my job in a provincial=0A> > upstate English department to answer= you, really. Wouldn't know how to pay=0A> > the rent. Been there for 18 y= ears now, after 20+ freelancing, doing=0A> > mimeo-mags, translating for p= eanuts or less, editing, teaching EFL,=0A> > bartending, whatever. It is e= xactly because of that experience that I feel=0A> > that I can speak to yo= urs & Amish's posts, & that that's coming from a place=0A> > of experience= , not privilege.=0A> >=0A> > > Although I respect all of the many years he= =E2=80=99s put into poetry, teaching,=0A> > translation, etc., it's just n= ot that easy, as Amish Trivedi notes, for a=0A> > young poet to break into= the scene.=0A> >=0A> > It was never easy. It was actually even less easy = back when as there was no=0A> > poetry "scene" that offered careers =E2=80= =94 that came about in the eighties &=0A> > nineties with the expansion of= the MFA programs, with AWP, etc. One never=0A> > thought one could make a= living at poetry, one paid the rent with whatever=0A> > job =E2=80=94 & i= t would certainly not be poetry related =E2=80=94 that came to hand. So th= e=0A> > place of privilege would actually be today when there seem to be s= o much=0A> > available possibilities =E2=80=94 cf. the ads throughout ever= y issue of AWP mag.=0A> >=0A> > > One can't up & move to NYC to be a poet = these days without being somehow=0A> > independently wealthy.=0A> > How mu= ch money does it take to get an MFA? Enough to live in NYC for the=0A> > s= ame amount of years & write poetry & find out if that is what one is good=0A= > > at and wants to spend one's life doing. That involves a risk of course= =E2=80=94but=0A> > the kind of risk any artist worth her salt needs to ta= ke. Of course if you=0A> > find out that you are not very good or even any= good at all at writing=0A> > poetry while doing an MFA, you haven't reall= y lost any of your investment,=0A> > as you will get the degree anyhow and= then can still go on & get a job=0A> > teaching the writing of poetry for= the next 40 years.=0A> >=0A> > >=0A> > > I just think the energy expended= in arguing about this would be better=0A> > directed into actual action. = I mean if you're going to end your email, as=0A> > Richard did, by bringin= g up inequality and injustice, aren't there other=0A> > means to more effi= caciously address these issues?=0A> > I think it is indeed worth arguing a= bout, Noah, because it is exactly these=0A> > questions that keep coming u= p while teaching or talking with young poets.=0A> > They define in a certa= in way the political economy of the current situation=0A> > in the US. (Po= ets anywhere else, from Paris to Timbuktu, Beijing to Sofia,=0A> > would l= augh out loud at the puny problems encountered by well-fed,=0A> > well-clo= thed young Norte Americanos bitching about not getting into some=0A> > poe= try "scene." The real place of privilege is this country.=0A> >=0A> > btw,= I admire Letter Machine Editions & your description of the economy of=0A>= > it in this post =E2=80=94 important in fact to do that, explain it publ= icly. (In the=0A> > seventies, in London, Allen Fisher would always have a= n page in the back of=0A> > the books he published that would itemize the = exact cost of the book & its=0A> > relation to the number of copies printe= d and the price asked per copy.)=0A> >=0A> > Pierre=0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > "Lyric poetry= has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried Benn=0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> > Pierre = Joris=0A> > cell phone: 518 225 7123=0A> > email: jorpierre@gmail.com=0A> = > http://pierrejoris.com=0A> > Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/= =0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=0A> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= guidelines=0A> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome= html=0A> >=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is m= oderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: h= ttp://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:01:10 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It always costs somebody something to get an MFA,=20 whether it's a foundation or a university=20 endowment, all funds that can't be used other ways. And there are other ways to get an education.=20 Here's mine: be a psychiatric social worker for=20 15 years and raise a child, while reading=20 everything you can get your hands on and=20 communicating with poets you respect who don't=20 expect to get paid to talk to you. At 03:14 PM 7/21/2010, you wrote: >****Wait, I need to correct something here. Sorry. (Note to self, >always proofread meticulously.)**** > >Corrected version: > >I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. >unestablished poets, pre-MFA/AWP generation vs. MFA/AWP generation. >First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the former, >and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a >slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and >powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so >much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on the >table. > >But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are nowadays, >being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. >Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers that >be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep writing, >reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere >crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our >crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) > >Nana Zabic > >P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run the >journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, and >how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long >story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; no >silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the word >"submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent nepotism >(I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the >past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, we >might have fee+prize contest in the future... > >P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. You >get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble for >a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard to >generalize. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:34:17 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is fascin= ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 Thi= nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being =0Agut= tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; our= =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 Th= e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; =0A= realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," lik= e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't work= . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the d= arkness of our current fetishism?=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 And then takes it someplac= e else.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 Many Thanks,=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Adam=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 afieled@yahoo.com=A0=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: David-Baptiste Chir= ot =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: We= d, July 21, 2010 12:36:33 AM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in P= oetry"=0A=0AAdam-many thanks for your sharing the essay--=0A=0Aa thought:= =A0 historically, the USA is a nation based on spirtiuality & =0Amaterialis= m being intimately interrelated ("In God We Trust" on the money--)=0A=0Aals= o my sense of Marxist readings by poets in the US has been it is not very = =0Awell thought through, not well enough read in the original writings of b= oth the =0A"Early/Romantic" Marx and the later "Scientific" Marx--=0Aas wel= l as the "Traditions of Modern Leftism" including Situationism--=0AMarx is = an excellent writer--i wish i read German much better!!--many passages =0Ao= f poetry in his works even in the French and English editions i have read--= =0Ai have been corresponding with a fellow Russian Sound/Visual/Asemic poet= who is =0Aa fanatic abt the=A0 place of philosphy in the face of the hells= of the current =0Aworld--=0Alike many he has taken the route laid out--the= re are many--by Gilles Deleuze--=0A=0Aa problem facing language used in the= USA today is that of "Torture:=A0 Cancer of =0ADemocracy" as a great book = on France-Algeria 1944-62 by Pierre Vidal-Naquet =0Acalls it--=0Aand the Or= wellian demands of language used in order to accommodate support for =0AApa= rtheid --=0A=0Awith the Taoist Chung Tzu=A0 ("Look under your feet!")-- and= my ancestors here =0Atens of thousands of years in the Americas i wd say w= e have lost the sense of =0Athe ground beneath our feet--of the Earth--=0Aw= hen we begin to lose the Mother--we see it every day what is happening--fro= m =0Athe oil spill to everywhere any town usa--=0A=0Aoften the thing in fro= nt of one is the lesson to be learned from=0A=0Athank you again--=0Aonwo/ar= ds!!=0Adavid-bc=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 = =A0 =0A_________________________________________________________________=0A= The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.= =0Ahttp://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAG= L:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poeti= cs List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub= /unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 23:14:42 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nicole Mauro Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition and the State of .... 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UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Les Rencontres Internationales Subject: Re: POETICS Digest - 19 Jul 2010 to 20 Jul 2010 (#2010-168) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear friends, We are writing you just to remind that our call for entries for the next Rencontres Internationales Paris/Berlin/Madrid is still running, and that its deadline is approaching (July 30). Any individual or organization can submit film, video and multimedia works. The next Rencontres Internationales will take place in Paris from November 25 to December 4 at the Centre Pompidou. It will propose during 10 days a film, video and multimedia programme, and a forum for artists, filmmakers, audiences and professionals. PLEASE FORWARD and spread out this information through your networks, to reach art and film organizations, art communities, production organizations, artists and filmmakers. Best wishes Jean-François #PRESS RELEASE [IN ENGLISH] http://art-action.org/site/_news/10/call/de.htm#retour [EN FRANÇAIS] http://art-action.org/site/_news/10/call/fr.htm#retour [AUF DEUTSCH] http://art-action.org/site/_news/10/call/de.htm#retour [EN ESPAÑOL] http://art-action.org/site/_news/10/call/es.htm#retour C A L L F O R E N T R I E S ||||||| CALL FOR ENTRIES ||||||| EXTENDED DEADLINE ||||||| LAST DEADLINE: JULY 30, 2010 ||||||| http://art-action.org ||||||| RENCONTRES INTERNATIONALES PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID ||||||| FILM / VIDEO / MULTIMEDIA The call for entries is open until July 30, 2010, for the 'Rencontres Internationales' that will take place in Paris at the Centre Pompidou from Nov. 25 to Dec. 4, 2010, and in Madrid and Berlin in 2011. Those three events will feature an international programming focusing on film, video and multimedia, gathering works of artists and filmmakers recognized on the international scene along with young artists and filmmakers. ANY INDIVIDUAL OR ORGANIZATION CAN SUBMIT ONE OR SEVERAL WORKS. THE CALL FOR ENTRIES IS OPEN TO FILM, VIDEO AND MULTIMEDIA WORKS, without any restrictions for length or genre. All submissions are free, regardless of geographical origin. Click here >>> http://art-action.org/call • FILMS AND VIDEOS - any film and video format * Video / Experimental video * Fiction, exp. fiction / Short, middle and full length * Documentary, exp. documentary * Experimental film * Animation • MULTIMEDIA * Video installation, multimedia installation * Net art * Multimedia concert, multimedia performance TO ENTER A WORK, CLICK HERE >>> http://art-action.org/call You may choose between two types of registration: • Until July 30, 2010: Entry form to use with regular mail • Until July 30, 2010: 100% online entry form with video upload PLEASE FORWARD this information to art and film organizations, art networks, production organizations, artists and filmmakers you are in contact with. The 'Rencontres Internationales' offers more than a simple presentation of the works. It introduces an intercultural forum gathering various guests from all over the world - artists and filmmakers, institutions and emerging organizations - to testify of their reflections and their experiences, but also of artistic and cultural contexts that are often undergoing deep changes. The 'Rencontres Internationales' reflects specificities and convergences of artistic practices between new cinema and contemporary art, explores emerging media art practices and their critical purposes, and makes possible a necessary time when points of view meet and are exchanged. The event aims at presenting works to a broad audience, at creating circulations between different art practices and between different audiences, as well as creating new exchanges between artists, filmmakers and professionals. It seeks to contribute to a reflection on our contemporary culture of image via a compelling program opened to everyone.. PARIS/BERLIN/MADRID In 2007, the Rencontres Internationales, which initially took place in Paris and Berlin, opened up to a third city: Madrid. The event constitutes a unique artistic and cultural platform in Europe for artists, professional networks and various audiences. The venues in the three cities are in particular the Centre Pompidou in Paris, the Haus der Kulturen der Welt in Berlin, the Reina Sofia National Museum and the Spanish Cinematheque in Madrid. N E W S L E T T E R , F A C E B O O K , T W I T T E R • Follow us on Twitter! MicroBlogging, RSS feed, invitations... http://art-action.org/-twitter.htm • Join us on Facebook! Information invitations, reports... http://art-action.org/-facebook.htm • Subscribe to our newsletter http://art-action.org/-newsletter.htm ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 07:35:19 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Francis Raven Subject: Announcement: Architectonic Conjectures MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, My new book, Architectonic Conjectures, just came out from Silenced Press (http://silencedpress.com/). The organizing principle behind =93Architectonic Conjectures=94 is that we begin our lives unconsciously in fully formed homes, abstract the architectural structure from the built environment, and finally move out into the ethical world of the city. Therefore, there are three main sections, one about homes ("From the Bedroom to the Living Room and Back Again") one investigating architecture proper ("Architexture"), and a third investing the city ("Urbanities"). You can order it here: http://silencedpress.com/ thanks so much peace out Francis --=20 Francis Raven 2125 14th St. NW #332 Washington DC 20009 francisraven@gmail.com 202-621-7345 http://www.ravensaesthetica.com/ Raven's Occasional Spice Club: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/716933849/ravens-occasional-spice-club =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 05:56:43 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable especially grateful to Pierre, Lisa & Gloria & others for sharing their com= ments & insights. when Pierre points back to his London years, with Allen F= isher & others, i think it wld serve _all_ of us well to consider what was = happening then, how poets were working and, perhaps *most* importantly, wha= t issues concerned them. Allen Fisher's long running mag Spanner provides u= s w/ an _invaluable_ model for cultural production -- as do any other numbe= r of mags that circulated from the mimeo era thru the xerox era in the US &= Britain.=A0=20 like Osama sz: ask not what a press can do for you; ask what presses are do= ing. viz. there ain't no omniscient poetry cardinal or congressman behind a= curtain of power, at least not one qualified enough to name "good" or "gre= at" work. & it's not like _anyone_ at this stage has a clear meta-sense of = what productive work is or shld be. meaningful work is situation & communit= y specific.=20 ANY press that shakes young poets down for a reading fee FORECLOSES on its = own relevance. they are to be ignored. NO exceptions. NO compromise.=A0 =A0= =A0=20 nicole wrote:=20 "I'm not going to call out specific =0Apresses here, but will say, in the c= ase of one, beauty pageants--where =0Aall the contestants get to learn/cons= ume who won--have better track =0Arecords. I entered one recently where the= press promised to notify me =0Apersonally. I found out by googling the res= ults several months later. =0AThey did send me an e about my paypal account= when I first =0Asubmitted--wanted to make sure I paid. I will be warning m= y students =0Anever, ever to submit to this press." identifying po contests with beauty contests is an incredibly salient gestu= re. & given how this identification lays bare the logic of contests, i wond= er if contests are something any instructor (always in a position of power)= shld encourage students to "submit" to. shldn't our students expect more f= rom us? shldn't we give them more? can't we provide them with models of cul= tural production and exchange that circumambulate and *contest* competitive= , disingenuous practices grounded in an ethos of exploitation?=20 the extent to which poetry is or is not itself political (or efficacious=0A= in any meaningful way) is a wholly different conversation; the question = =0Ahere isn't so much about poetry as such but how poets _respond to_ one = =0Aanother -- viz. what poets participate in, are complicit in, what =0Apra= ctices they accept without question, what practices they refuse.=20 ****** there's a dire need for an ethos that discloses itself through an ea= rnest =0Acommitment *to the work of others.* in other words, young poets sh= ld have access to _healthy_ (viz. non-market-based) =0Amodels. begin by car= ving out a discrete space, an autonomous field of =0Acultural production, o= ne that disavows demoralizing or=0A destructive practices. &, perhaps as a = healthy alternative to =0ANoah's list of prize recipients, maybe a couple q= uick examples of poets that have refused=0A conventional practices might he= lp:=20 -- Kevin Killian & Dodie=0A Bellamy (published their own work for decades; = ran workshops =0Aindependently, without funding; _fully_ supported local po= etry =0Acommunities).=20 --=0A Keston Sutherland (edits Barque Press and Quid magazine; is perhaps o= ne=0A of the most interesting poets working in Britain today & most _all_= =0A of his major work is *self published).=20 -- google "nonsite collective."=20 -- read Thom Donovan's Wild Horses of Fire blog -- read Dale Smith's Possum Ego (w/ attention to postings on publics & his = appeal to Bey's theory of temporary autonomous zones -- read Kyle Schlesinger's Cuneiform blog.=A0=20 -- investigate what young Brits are doing; they move within an altogether d= ifferent economy of cultural exchange & it's stunningly _less_ demoralizing= than our own.=A0=20 -- look back toward Bob Cobbing's Writers Forum, or the Toronto Research Gr= oup or Bill Griffith's Pirate Press.=20 -- MUST READ: Tom Orange's essay "Poetries of the Long Now" published last = year in the Slow Po feature curated by Dale Smith for Big Bridge:=20 http://www.bigbridge.org/BB14/SloPo-gallery3-A.pdf hugs ... rich ...=20 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:13:42 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice (i've a= ddressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for flarf as a wi= ldly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive riposte to usurous po ind= ustry practices. flarf first announces itself _thru_ the figure of poetry c= ontests.=C2=A0=20 Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry list, =0A= a number of people began posting in horror at finding their =0Aname= s, with =0A poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I remember goi= ng to =0Athe site =0A and realizing immediately it was one of those = "poetry contest" =0A scams. A year or so before that I had spoken on= the phone with =0Amy grandfather, =0A not many days before he died,= and he had told me then how proud =0Ahe was =0A that he had won som= e sort of poetry contest, and that he had =0Aordered the =0A book, e= tc. I had always felt bad about that, and once I was on =0Athe poetry.com = =0A site, I wrote what I thought would be the most offensive poem I = =0Acould =0A manage, and submitted it to the "contest": =0A =20 =0A Mm-hmm =0A Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true =0A big birds make =0A big doo! I got fire inside =0A my "huppa"-chimp(TM) =0A gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god =0A wanna DOOT! DOOT! =0A Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! =0A oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take =0A AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) =0A uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah =0A hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get =0A off the paddy field and git =0A me some chocolate Quik =0A put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick =0A pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG =0A fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that =0A syndrome what's it called tourette's =0A make me HAI-EE! shout out loud =0A Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening! =0A =20 =0A To my amazement, I received, about three weeks later, a letter = =0Afrom poetry.com, =0A with my poem fully visible through the cello= phane window of the =0Aenvelope. =0A The letter, in part, read: =0A =20 =0A "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted an exhaustive =0Aex= amination =0A of over 1.2 million poems that have been submitted to = us. Only a=0A small =0A percentage of individuals whose poems we hav= e reviewed were =0Aselected to =0A be part of this distinguished pro= ject. "'Mm-hmm' was selected =0Afor =0A publication because it spark= s the imagination and provides the =0Areader =0A with a fresh, uniqu= e perspective on life. We believe it will add=0A to the =0A importan= ce and appeal of this special edition. _Of course, Gary,=0A as always, =0A = you are under no obligation whatsoever to submit any entry fee =0Aor= subsidy =0A payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. Your poem = will be =0Apresented =0A in the most elegant way possible. This coff= ee-table quality book=0A will =0A feature an 'Arristock leather' cov= er stamped in gold and a satin=0A bookmarker =0A =E2=80=A6" =0A =20 =0A And it went on like that. I can't remember if I said anything = =0Aabout this =0A on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsubscri= bed by then), =0Abut I =0A was on the subpoetics list at the time, a= nd posted something =0Aabout it, =0A and encouraged others to submit= poems to poetry.com. There were a=0A few =0A takers, including Kase= y Mohammad and maybe Drew Gardner. =0AMeanwhile, Nada, =0A Mitch Hig= hfill and I began writing more of these awful poems, =0Aand submitting =0A = them to the site under a variety of different names.=20 =0A =20 =0A Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" materialized-it may = =0A have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's, I'm not sure. But = =0Asomehow, =0A "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having the qual= ity =0A of flarfiness." We now began to look at other things and to = see =0Athem =0A as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it meant-som= ething akin =0A to "campy," but with somewhat different resonances. = More =0Aawkward, =0A stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voice"= in =0A my head was that of my father, a transplanted southerner, wh= o =0Alikes to =0A pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions that ki= nd of horrify =0Ame."=20 =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:55:06 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CA_Year_of_Ordinary_Moments=E2=80=9D_?= by Rich Curtis Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CA Year of Ordinary Moments= =E2=80=9D by Rich Curtis Description: As a performance art piece, Rich Curtis became a licensed notary public in = 2009. Since that time he has notarized many things, none of which have been= legal documents. Curtis is fascinated by the idea of being legally bound t= o TRUTH. His personal view that truth is inherently subjective runs counter= to the notion of a legal and absolute truth. As part of this project he de= vised an exercise of witnessing one true thing each day. For the most part = Curtis tried to pick the most obscure, least significant event of a given d= ay. He distilled each of these moments into one sentence. The result of thi= s is =E2=80=9CA Year of Ordinary Moments=E2=80=9D, where the body of the te= xt is the result of his daily observations. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/a-year-of-ordinary-moments/9123881 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 11:19:54 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <646708.68024.qm@web53603.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Adam, My new book of poetry *The Spiritual Life of Replicants*, to be published by Talisman Books this fall, deals exactly with the themes you mention. Ciao, Murat On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: > I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti > David, > > I'll admit I haven't read Marx's entire oeuvre, but the intermingling > of > spirituality & materialism is fascinating, and I have perused > Deleuze/Guattari > as well. > Think of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is > being > guttered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; > our > spirits are bound to different levels of materialism. > The spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical > dimensions; > realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," > like the > Whitmanic. > But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't work. What about a new > spirituality > that holds up a mirror and catches the darkness of our current fetishism? > And then takes it someplace else. > Many Thanks, > Adam afieled@yahoo.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: David-Baptiste Chirot > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 12:36:33 AM > Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" > > Adam-many thanks for your sharing the essay-- > > a thought: historically, the USA is a nation based on spirtiuality & > materialism being intimately interrelated ("In God We Trust" on the > money--) > > also my sense of Marxist readings by poets in the US has been it is not > very > well thought through, not well enough read in the original writings of both > the > "Early/Romantic" Marx and the later "Scientific" Marx-- > as well as the "Traditions of Modern Leftism" including Situationism-- > Marx is an excellent writer--i wish i read German much better!!--many > passages > of poetry in his works even in the French and English editions i have > read-- > i have been corresponding with a fellow Russian Sound/Visual/Asemic poet > who is > a fanatic abt the place of philosphy in the face of the hells of the > current > world-- > like many he has taken the route laid out--there are many--by Gilles > Deleuze-- > > a problem facing language used in the USA today is that of "Torture: > Cancer of > Democracy" as a great book on France-Algeria 1944-62 by Pierre Vidal-Naquet > calls it-- > and the Orwellian demands of language used in order to accommodate support > for > Apartheid -- > > with the Taoist Chung Tzu ("Look under your feet!")-- and my ancestors > here > tens of thousands of years in the Americas i wd say we have lost the sense > of > the ground beneath our feet--of the Earth-- > when we begin to lose the Mother--we see it every day what is > happening--from > the oil spill to everywhere any town usa-- > > often the thing in front of one is the lesson to be learned from > > thank you again-- > onwo/ards!! > david-bc > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:35:13 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Fwd: A Scorched Page by Liliana Almendarez In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just passing this along regarding my friend Lily's beautiful book: My publisher is promoting my book with a great discount of 15%. If you or anyone you know is interested in purchasing a new book of poetry, the promotion code is attached below. Please note, this book is downloadable for e-readers as well. It would mean a lot to me if you'd spread the word to your circle of friends. Best, Lily Liliana Almendarez [image: Lulu.com] Publish |Buy |Sell |Services [image: 15% off A Scorched Page][image: Offer ends August 15, 2010] [image: A Scorched Page] [image: Get it] *A Scorched Page* Purchase *A Scorched Page* with 15% off with coupon code BEACHREAD305 ------------------------------ Disclaimer: Use coupon code *BEACHREAD305* at checkout and receive 15% off = *A Scorched Page*. Maximum savings with this promotion is $10. You can only us= e the code once per account, and you can't use this coupon in combination wit= h other coupon codes. This great offer ends on August 15, 2010 at 11:59 PM so try not to procrastinate! While very unlikely we do reserve the right to change or revoke this offer at anytime, and of course we cannot offer this coupon where it is against the law to do so. --=20 Wanda Phipps Check out my websites: http://www.mindhoney.com and http://www.myspace.com/wandaphippsband My latest book of poetry Field of Wanting: Poems of Desire available at: http://www.blazevox.org/bk-wp.htm And my 1st full-length book of poems Wake-Up Calls: 66 Morning Poems available at:http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/193236031X/ref=3Drm_ite= m =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:47:18 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit misquoting descartes: ons should not only be judged by how many books one has read but also by one what has seen - and to me if you are indeed a POET or come close to being THAT THING you should be dealing with your SELF your WORK through that axiom this is a subject that has irked plagued etc me my life my work for many years no mfa's no addressses to look up a native new yorker surrpounded by the scene and never realizing til the 80's there was a SCENE - and in that scene many little splintered scenses- and it's all about schmoozing and who you know manners or lack of... games etc... contests mfa's prizes i won a contest once so??? nada 3 years ago a small pen award??? so ??? no publisher ( and a good one to back me up) nada in 80's not haing academia behind me - not kissing ass (which i sometines at nearly 65 do a bit better now- tho am still a clumsy oaf _spelling?) i realized i had to do it myself and i did what i initilly hated and did poorly i read in public tho avoided open mics and horrid venues this list is still basically full of amcademes and folks who followed a paper trial to get where they are and folks who know what they know thru books classes CLASS etc .. pierre had a plan it worked he followed all the trails - to his place of PRIVELEGE i would take moxley's remark a step further "Publication, popularity, and prizes. All three are unreliable > measures of value. In fact, any indicator of poetics worth that is > immediately perceptible to people who care nothing of poetry is > likely to be, in some part, false." EVEN SOME OF THOSE WHO KNOW OR CLAIM TO KNOW about poetry may find that any indicator of poetics worth that is > immediately perceptible to people who care for poetry is > likely to be, in some part, false." you figure out the wording tho i'm sure you get my point > So this afternoon I am trying to catch up with the magazines that > have accumulated around my table and come across this, by Jennifer > Moxley — from Fragments of a Broken Poetics — in the latest issue of > Chicago Review (55:2, spring 2010), which speaks to what we have > been discussing in this thread: > > On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:43:46 -0700 Hugh Behm-Steinberg writes: > Not to be glib, but the solution to the monologicalness of se > Matthew, > > Not to be glib, but the solution to the monologicalness of > self-publishing is to > publish other people. Instead of kvetching about how unfair all > these contests > are, form a collective, share costs, use POD and get those books out > into the > world. > > Hugh Behm-Steinberg > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Matthew Landis > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 6:12:12 PM > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > > I've self published a chapbook. But it can be so expensive, > especially if yr > trying to go beyond typical chapbook formatting (for instance with > my DIY > chapbook, the vellum cover with card stock backing, the paper I > bought, the > printer's fee...all of this cost me nearly $200 for 30 COPIES. And > then, I > think I've sold 5. I gave away some, but for the most part people > ask how > they can get one and then when I tell them the 25 (roughly) page > hand > stitched, designed from scratch, all materials bought and paid for > and all > the production work done by me and a couple friends is say $10 or > even $8 > it's an oh never mind. That's pricey for a book. Self-publishing has > its > merits (obviously, since I've done it a few times), but it IS > difficult to > up the ante sometimes on an aesthetic level. > > I'd also like to echo the comment about people who already have > established > themselves opposing these competitions and reading fees. Where is > this door? > Call me shallow but I actually CRAVE the opportunity to be > associated with a > press, to engage in a community of fellow authors, to interact with > a nexus > of people who are involved in the book and in poetry in mediums and > artways > drastically different than my own. It's valuable. Typesetting my own > work, > designing the cover and layout, choosing the paper and materials for > the > cover, scrounging up public domain visuals, hand stitching...it's an > invaluable experience, but it's also completely monological. And you > become > limited, very often in a technological sense if yr working with > other people > who are self-publishing. You simply don't have the means to produce > work the > way a boutique press, or academic press, or even some small presses > can. Yr > aesthetic choices are STILL LIMITED (although the interaction I've > had with > other self-publishing writers has been invaluable as well). So while > I agree > with Richard's sentiment and am immeasurably appreciative of Pierre > supporting the sentiment it's worth pointing out that besides the > exploitative nature of the competition and reading fee system, it's > worth > pointing out the other drawbacks behind another fundamental feature > of > capitalist production and culture: (1) the "workers" don't own the > means of > production (2) in many cases the "workers" are producing above > "value" and > beyond what they are paid in return for that production—i.e, we > produce more > than enough value to provide for our own subsistence and yet only > receive > "wages" enough to subsist—which is really just an unnecessarily > wordy > definition of the labor theory of value. Anyway, I think both of > those > points should be considered as well. > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Gloria Frym > wrote: > > > double right on, Richard. A trenchant analysis. And thanks, > Pierre, for > > reinforcing it. > > Gloria Frym > > > > > > On 7/19/2010 5:01 AM, Pierre Joris wrote: > > > >> hear! hear! in all my years of teaching one of the first > recommendations I > >> give young writers is never ever to enter such "small reading > fee" > >> competitions as they are by their nature scam affairs, no matter > how hip and > >> experimental they claim to be. Basic capitalist exploitation. > Right on > >> Richard. — Pierre > >> > >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 1:53 PM, richard owens wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> for years now i've watched poets (many of whom identify > themselves with > >>> radical politics, "progressive" thinking, non-normative > practices) do > >>> nothing more than reproduce the logic of market systems and > commodity > >>> culture by participating in (or, worse, organizing) poetry > competitions > >>> engineered expressly for the purpose of roping in cash and > fostering a > >>> competitive rather than cooperative cultural environment (&, > yes, > >>> competition and cooperation are in _no_ uncertain way mutually > exclusive). > >>> > >>> but fair competition is a good thing, right? like, if only we > could weed > >>> out a few greedy apples then market-based economies (cultural > and otherwise) > >>> would be beneficial to all, no? and who doesn't want to win? > >>> > >>> Rexroth was spot on when he wrote: "If offered a crown | > refuse." Charles > >>> Ives was spot on when he sd: "Awards are badges of mediocrity." > >>> > >>> &&& while we're at it, cld poets given to a responsible sense > of > >>> cultural politics PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop appealing to the > language of > >>> submission. it's incredibly demoralizing to see so many poets so > willingly > >>> "submit" to editors that, more often than not, are about as > capable of > >>> recognizing productive work as Paula Abdula or Simon Cowell.& > it's even > >>> more reprehensible when editors create a situation that expects > others to > >>> "submit." man, for people so attuned to the complexities and the > ideological > >>> underpinnings of language i find it utterly astounding that so > many > >>> gleefully accept that language of submission and the practice of > >>> competition. > >>> > >>> but, then again, it's all abt building a respectable career, > right?& so > >>> long as you grapple w/ gender difference, race, subjectivity or > class > >>> politics in yr poetry or critical work, well there's no need to > worry abt > >>> how the practices that feed the poetry industry might also > reproduce the > >>> logic that guarantees inequality and injustice. > >>> > >>> > >>> ........richard owens > >>> 810 richmond ave > >>> buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >>> > >>> damn the caesars, the journal > >>> damn the caesars, the blog > >>> > >>> --- On Sun, 7/18/10, Noah Eli Gordon > wrote: > >>> > >>> From: Noah Eli Gordon > >>> Subject: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >>> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >>> Date: Sunday, July 18, 2010, 2:08 AM > >>> > >>> 2010 Subito Press Book Competition: We will publish two books of > >>> innovative writing, one each of fiction and poetry. Winners > will be flown > >>> to the University of Colorado at Boulder to give a reading in > the spring of > >>> 2011. > >>> > >>> Submission Guidelines: Submit mss. of up to 70 pages of poetry > or up to > >>> 100 pages fiction (double spaced) along with a $20 reading fee > and an SASE > >>> for notification of results. Please see www.subitopress.org for > >>> complete guidelines. Send to Subito Press, English Department, > Hellems 101, > >>> 226 UCB, Boulder, Colorado, 80309-0226. Former students, friends > and > >>> relatives of UCB faculty are ineligible. > >>> > >>> Submissions will be accepted from June 1st to August 14th, 2010 > (postmark > >>> date). > >>> > _________________________________________________________________ > >>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from > your > >>> inbox. > >>> > ign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > >>>3 > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines& sub/unsub info: > http://epcbuffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >> ================================================= > >> "Lyric poetry has to be exorbitant or not at all." -- Gottfried > Benn > >> ================================================= > >> Pierre Joris > >> cell phone: 518 225 7123 > >> email: jorpierre@gmail.com > >> http://pierrejoris.com > >> Nomadics blog: http://pierrejoris.com/blog/ > >> ================================================= > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated& does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines& sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> Version: 9.0.839 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3015 - Release Date: > 07/18/10 > >> 23:36:00 > >> > >> > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:15:35 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Vernon Frazer Subject: New Post on Vernon Frazer's BELLICOSE WARBLING Blog Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii h= ttp://bellicosewarbling.blogspot.com/2010/07/new-publications-and-recordin= gs.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:32:02 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STOP WITH THIS STUFF "IF WE ARE DEEP IN THE SHADOWS WE MUST BE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT" THAT IS MERE CHRIST COMPLEX POESIE CRAP - IF WE ARE AT ALL WORTHY SOME WILL RISE THO MOSTLY ONLY THE SH**T FLOATS - AND IF WE ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO STEP OUT OF THE SHADOWS OUR WORK CAN BE SEEN BY A LARGER AUDIENCE (THO STILL QUITE SMALL) PERHAPS APPRECIATED AND MAYBE WE CAN HELP EVEN EVER SO SLIGHTLY (THO I AM A SKEPTIC IN SUCH MATTERS) TO MOVE PEOPLE AND MAKE MINOR POSITIVE ALTERATIONS IN THE CRACKS--- i'm sure everyone on this list knows of or knows personally someone of wot=rth who has risen ever so slightly out of the shadows even if only to receive the acknowledgement they deserve by our small rather fragmented community i also agree with mark on some points and pierre tho not on all points we can't get notoriety etc just on the services we perform tho i can name many wo's work (which is medicre) have climbed up the proverbial ladder on that and then the work gets focusded on after same with teacher/student relationships - wow hot gonna take a dip and cash a check for a poet's job well done On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:10:18 -0500 Nana Zabic writes: > I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. > unestablished poets, MFA/AWP generation vs. pre-MFA/AWP generation. > First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the > former, > and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a > slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and > powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so > much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on > the > table. > > But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are > nowadays, > being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. > Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers > that > be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep > writing, > reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere > crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our > crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) > > Nana Zabic > > P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run > the > journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, > and > how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long > story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; > no > silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the > word > "submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent > nepotism > (I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the > past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, > we > might have fee+prize contest in the future... > > P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. > You > get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble > for > a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard > to > generalize. > > ================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:06:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ed Friedman Subject: Re: Unnatural Acts in Los Angeles In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Dear Jennifer, I noted, with great interest, your Unnatural Acts in Los Angeles posting. The 8-hour writing experiments of 1972-73, as documented in Unnatural Acts magazine, were terrific, exhausting, wondrous, and horrifying. I love that you=B9re going to do a new version of them. Please feel free to mention me when you credit Unnatural Acts as your inspiration. You credit =B3Bernadette Mayer and others.=B2 I don=B9t begrudge Bernadette getting star billing; she is one of the great poets and teachers of our time. What could (and perhaps should) be said is that Bernadette and I were coeditors of Unnatural Acts, and that we were _both_ fundamentally involved in the formulation, execution, and publication of those 1972-73 experiments.=20 Thanks, Ed Friedman P.S. I look forward to reading what you and your collaborators come up with= . On 7/22/10 12:02 AM, "POETICS automatic digest system" wrote: > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:14:07 -0700 > From: Jennifer Karmin > Subject: Unnatural Acts in Los Angeles >=20 > A series of text pro=3D >=20 > NOT CONTENT=3D0Ahttp://www.notcontent.lesfigues.com=3D0A=3D0AA series of text p= ro=3D > jects curated by Les Figues Press =3D0Aas part of Los Angeles Contemporary = Ex=3D > hibitions=3D0Ayear-long initiative Public Interest=3D0A=3D0AUNNATURAL ACTS=3D0AJu= ly=3D > 21-August 11=3D0ALos Angeles, California=3D0A=3D0ATaking its name from the his= to=3D > ric collaborative writing marathons led by Bernadette Mayer and others in= N=3D > YC during 1972-73, Unnatural Acts will explore the themes of hunger, war,= a=3D > nd desire through public acts of collaboration. =3D0A=3D0ABeginning with two= d=3D > ays of installation and performance by Amina Cain and Jennifer Karmin, a = gr=3D > oup of eleven writers/artists will gather on the third day to write toget= he=3D > r over the course of eight hours. In a daily ritual inaugurated on the f= ou=3D > rth day, the outline of a new person=3DE2=3D80=3D99s body will be traced onto t= he=3D > bodies of text until the exhibit closes on August 11th.=3D0A=3D0AALL EVENTS = OP=3D > EN TO THE PUBLIC - 6522 Hollywood Blvd=3D0Ahttp://www.welcometolace.org/eve= nt=3D > s/view/unnatural-acts=3D0A=3D0AJuly 21: Amina Cain =3D0AInstallation (12-5)=3D0AH= un=3D > ger Texts Read in the Dark performance (5-5:30pm) =3D0A=3D0AJuly 22: Jennifer= K=3D > armin=3D0AInstallation (12-5)=3D0A4000 Words 4000 Dead street performance (5-= 6p=3D > m) =3D0A=3D0AJuly 23: Unnatural Acts=3D0A8 hours of collaborative writing (12-8= pm=3D > )=3D0ACollaborators include: Harold Abramowitz, Tisa Bryant, Amina Cain, Te= re=3D > sa Carmody, Saehee Cho, Kate Durbin, K. Lorraine Graham, Jennifer Karmin,= L=3D > aida Lertxundi, India Radfar, and Mark Wallace.=3D0A=3D0AJuly 24: Presentatio= ns=3D > =3D0AArtists=3DE2=3D80=3D99 Talk (2-3pm)=3D0ACollaborative Reading (4-6pm)=3D0AReader= s =3D > include: Harold Abramowitz, Tisa Bryant, Amina Cain, Teresa Carmody, Kate= D=3D > urbin, K. Lorraine Graham, Jennifer Karmin, India Radfar, and Mark Wallac= e.=3D > =3D0A=3D0AAMINA CAIN is the author of the short story collection I Go To Some= H=3D > ollow (Les Figues Press, 2009), and a forthcoming chapbook, Tramps Everyw= he=3D > re (Insert Press/PARROT SERIES). A recording of her story =3DE2=3D80=3D9CAttac= he=3D > d to a Self=3DE2=3D80=3D9D was included in the group show A Diamond in the Mud = at=3D > Literaturhaus Basel in Switzerland in 2008; other work has appeared in p= ub=3D > lications such as 3rd Bed, Action Yes, Denver Quarterly, onedit, Sidebrow= , =3D > and Wreckage of Reason: Xxperimental Prose by Women Writers. She lives i= n =3D > Los Angeles.=3D0Ahttp://aminacain.com=3D0A=3D0AJENNIFER KARMIN's text-sound epi= c,=3D > Aaaaaaaaaaalice, was published by Flim Forum Press in 2010. She curates = th=3D > e Red Rover Series and is co-founder of the public art group Anti Gravity= S=3D > urprise. Her multidisciplinary projects have been presented across the U= .S=3D > ., Japan, and Kenya. A proud member of the Dusie Kollektiv, she is the au= th=3D > or of the Dusie chapbook Evacuated: Disembodying Katrina. Walking Poem, a= c=3D > ollaborative street project, is featured online at How2. In Chicago, Jenn= if=3D > er teaches creative writing to immigrants at Truman College and works as = a =3D > Poet-in-Residence for the public schools. http://aaaaaaaaaaalice.blogspo= t.=3D > com=3D0A=3D0ACOLLABORATORS:=3D0A=3D0AHarold Abramowitz's recent publications incl= ud=3D > e Not Blessed (Les Figues Press) and A House on a Hill {A House on a Hill= , =3D > Part One} (Insert Press). Harold writes collaboratively as part of SAM OR= S=3D > AMANTHA YAMS and UNFO, and co-edits the short-form literary press eohippu= s =3D > labs. http://www.eohippuslabs.com=3D0A=3D0ATisa Bryant is author of Unexplai= ne=3D > d Presence (Leon Works, 2007), co-editor, with Ernest Hardy, of the antho= lo=3D > gy War Diaries (AIDS Project Los Angeles, 2010), co-editor of The Encyclo= pe=3D > dia Project's Encyclopedia Vol. 2 F-K, due out Fall 2010, and has work fo= rt=3D > hcoming in Animal Shelter 2 and Mixed Blood. Her creative process demand= s =3D > she write longhand, one of her favorite words is 'autochthonous,' and she= t=3D > eaches in the MFA Writing Program at CalArts. http://www.encyclopediapro= je=3D > ct.org=3D0A=3D0ATeresa Carmody is the author of Requiem (Les Figues Press, 20= 05=3D > ), and two chapbooks: Eye Hole Adore (PS Books, 2008), and Your Spiritua= l =3D > Suit of Armor by Katherine Anne (Woodland Editions, 2009). She lives in L= os=3D > Angeles and is co-director of Les Figues Press. http://www.lesfigues.co= m/=3D > lfp/24/requiem=3D0A=3D0ASaehee Cho holds a BA in Literature/Writing from The = Un=3D > iversity of California, San Diego and an MFA in Writing from Calarts. Sh= e =3D > has just completed her first collection of short stories tentatively titl= ed=3D > Form, Composite. Her work has been featured in Shrapnel and Ex Nihilo. = ht=3D > tp://www.thesproutandthebean.com=3D0A=3D0AKate Durbin is a writer & fashion a= rt=3D > ist. Her full-length collection of poetry, The Ravenous Audience, is avai= la=3D > ble from Akashic Books. http://www.katedurbin.blogspot.com=3D0A=3D0AK. Lorr= ai=3D > ne Graham is the author of Terminal Humming (Edge Books). Visual work app= ea=3D > red in the 2008 Zaoem International Poetry Exhibition at the Minardschouw= bu=3D > rg, Gent, Belgium and the Infusoria visual poetry exhibition in Brussels = an=3D > d Ghent, 2009. http://www.spooksbyme.org=3D0A =3D0ALaida Lertxundi, (Bilbao,= S=3D > pain) works on film making non-stories with non-actors that play with die= ge=3D > tic space and a particular sound and image syntax to create moments of do= wn=3D > time, of a time between events. Her work has been shown at MoMa, Lacma, V= ie=3D > nnale and the New York Film Festival views of the Avant Garde among other= p=3D > laces. http://www.laidalertxundi.net=3D0A=3D0AIndia Radfar is the author of = fo=3D > ur books of poetry: India Poem (Pir Press), the desire to meet with the b= ea=3D > utiful (Tender Buttons Press), Breathe (Shivastan Publications) and most = re=3D > cently, Position & Relation (Station Hill/Barrytown Books) and one chapbo= ok=3D > , 12 Poems That Were Never Written (Mind Made Books). She has lived in Lo= s =3D > Angeles for the past 6 years. http://www.stationhill.org/authors/profile= /2=3D > 30-India_Hixon_Radfar=3D0A =3D0AMark Wallace is the author and editor of more= t=3D > han fifteen books and chapbooks of poetry, fiction, and essays. Most rece= nt=3D > ly he has published a collection of tales, Walking Dreams, and a book of = po=3D > ems, Felonies of Illusion. http://wallacethinksagain.blogspot.com=3D0A=3D0A=3D= 0A=3D > =3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:32:46 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds interesting. Please do p= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Murat,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Sounds interesting. Please do p= ost to the list when it is released.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Best,=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0 Adam=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 afieled@yahoo.com=A0=A0 =0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Murat Nemet-Nejat =0ATo: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Thu, July 22, 20= 10 11:19:54 AM=0ASubject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A=0AHi= , Adam,=0A=0AMy new book of poetry *The Spiritual Life of Replicants*, to b= e published by=0ATalisman Books this fall, deals exactly with the themes yo= u mention.=0A=0ACiao,=0A=0AMurat=0A=0AOn Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Adam= Fieled wrote:=0A=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 I'll admit I haven't r= ead Marx's enti=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 David,=0A>=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 I'll admit I haven= 't read Marx's entire oeuvre, but the intermingling=0A> of=0A> spirituality= & materialism is fascinating, and I have perused=0A> Deleuze/Guattari=0A> = as well.=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 Think of what's happening in the US now; our collec= tive spirit is=0A> being=0A> guttered for dearth of the ability to consume = the way we're accustomed to;=0A> our=0A> spirits are bound to different lev= els of materialism.=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 The spirituality I'd like to espouse enc= ompasses metaphysical=0A> dimensions;=0A> realms that are based, somewhat i= dealistically, on "soul" and "spirit,"=0A> like the=0A> Whitmanic.=0A>=A0 = =A0 =A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't work. What about a new=0A> spir= ituality=0A> that holds up a mirror and catches the darkness of our current= fetishism?=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 And then takes it someplace else.=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0= Many Thanks,=0A>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Adam=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 afieled@yahoo.com=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> ________________________________= =0A> From: David-Baptiste Chirot =0A> To: POETICS= @LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0A> Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 12:36:33 AM=0A> Subject:= Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A>=0A> Adam-many thanks for you= r sharing the essay--=0A>=0A> a thought:=A0 historically, the USA is a nati= on based on spirtiuality &=0A> materialism being intimately interrelated ("= In God We Trust" on the=0A> money--)=0A>=0A> also my sense of Marxist readi= ngs by poets in the US has been it is not=0A> very=0A> well thought through= , not well enough read in the original writings of both=0A> the=0A> "Early/= Romantic" Marx and the later "Scientific" Marx--=0A> as well as the "Tradit= ions of Modern Leftism" including Situationism--=0A> Marx is an excellent w= riter--i wish i read German much better!!--many=0A> passages=0A> of poetry = in his works even in the French and English editions i have=0A> read--=0A> = i have been corresponding with a fellow Russian Sound/Visual/Asemic poet=0A= > who is=0A> a fanatic abt the=A0 place of philosphy in the face of the hel= ls of the=0A> current=0A> world--=0A> like many he has taken the route laid= out--there are many--by Gilles=0A> Deleuze--=0A>=0A> a problem facing lang= uage used in the USA today is that of "Torture:=0A> Cancer of=0A> Democracy= " as a great book on France-Algeria 1944-62 by Pierre Vidal-Naquet=0A> call= s it--=0A> and the Orwellian demands of language used in order to accommoda= te support=0A> for=0A> Apartheid --=0A>=0A> with the Taoist Chung Tzu=A0 ("= Look under your feet!")-- and my ancestors=0A> here=0A> tens of thousands o= f years in the Americas i wd say we have lost the sense=0A> of=0A> the grou= nd beneath our feet--of the Earth--=0A> when we begin to lose the Mother--w= e see it every day what is=0A> happening--from=0A> the oil spill to everywh= ere any town usa--=0A>=0A> often the thing in front of one is the lesson to= be learned from=0A>=0A> thank you again--=0A> onwo/ards!!=0A> david-bc=0A>= =0A>=0A> _________________________________________________________________= =0A> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your in= box.=0A>=0A>http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326:= :T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3=0A>3=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check= guidelines=0A> &=0A> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcom= e.html=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> The Poetic= s List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines=0A> & sub= /unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A>=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all po= sts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/w= elcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:07:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <374093.73985.qm@web33401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich--I love you and I tend to trust your assessment here, but seriously: "ANY press that shakes young poets down for a reading fee FORECLOSES on its own relevance. they are to be ignored. NO exceptions. NO compromise." Walk it back, man. No Salt? No Kelsey St. (I think they had a fee recently, though this might be wrong)? No Ahsahta? No Omnidawn? No Nightboat? This is a major erasure. I don't think I need to list individual titles here to mak= e that point. Probably missing a few in my list, but my sense is that there are presses out there doing seriously fucking viable work on that model (or in spite of it). No way for a more complicated take on this? I wonder if we might hear from any of the folks associated w/any of the presses above on their choice to run contests and/or charge reading fees. CJ Martin On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:13 AM, richard owens wr= ote: > NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice (i've > addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for flarf as a > wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive riposte to usurous po > industry practices. flarf first announces itself _thru_ the figure of poe= try > contests. > > Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: > > "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry list, > a number of people began posting in horror at finding their > names, with > poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I remember going to > the site > and realizing immediately it was one of those "poetry contest" > scams. A year or so before that I had spoken on the phone with > my grandfather, > not many days before he died, and he had told me then how proud > he was > that he had won some sort of poetry contest, and that he had > ordered the > book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, and once I was on > the poetry.com > site, I wrote what I thought would be the most offensive poem I > could > manage, and submitted it to the "contest": > > > > Mm-hmm > > Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true > > big birds make > > big doo! I got fire inside > > my "huppa"-chimp(TM) > > gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god > > wanna DOOT! DOOT! > > Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! > > oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take > > AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) > > uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah > > hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get > > off the paddy field and git > > me some chocolate Quik > > put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick > > pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG > > fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that > > syndrome what's it called tourette's > > make me HAI-EE! shout out loud > > Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening! > > > > To my amazement, I received, about three weeks later, a letter > from poetry.com, > with my poem fully visible through the cellophane window of the > envelope. > The letter, in part, read: > > > > "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted an exhaustive > examination > of over 1.2 million poems that have been submitted to us. Only a > small > percentage of individuals whose poems we have reviewed were > selected to > be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-hmm' was selected > for > publication because it sparks the imagination and provides the > reader > with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We believe it will add > to the > importance and appeal of this special edition. _Of course, Gary, > as always, > you are under no obligation whatsoever to submit any entry fee > or subsidy > payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. Your poem will be > presented > in the most elegant way possible. This coffee-table quality book > will > feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped in gold and a satin > bookmarker > =85" > > > > And it went on like that. I can't remember if I said anything > about this > on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsubscribed by then), > but I > was on the subpoetics list at the time, and posted something > about it, > and encouraged others to submit poems to poetry.com. There were a > few > takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Drew Gardner. > Meanwhile, Nada, > Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of these awful poems, > and submitting > them to the site under a variety of different names. > > > > Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" materialized-it may > have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's, I'm not sure. But > somehow, > "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having the quality > of flarfiness." We now began to look at other things and to see > them > as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it meant-something akin > to "campy," but with somewhat different resonances. More > awkward, > stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voice" in > my head was that of my father, a transplanted southerner, who > likes to > pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions that kind of horrify > me." > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:03:23 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nana Zabic Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mark, Ouch. :-) But still, I'm proud of you. I dunno, I think it's also great that there is some funding for artists or wannabe artists, even if it's in a grad school format, whether it's for (wannabe) poets, film makers, visual artists, etc. Nana Zabic On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Mark Weiss wrote= : > It always costs somebody something to get an MFA, whether it's a foundati= on > or a university endowment, all funds that can't be used other ways. > > And there are other ways to get an education. Here's mine: be a psychiatr= ic > social worker for 15 years and raise a child, while reading everything yo= u > can get your hands on and communicating with poets you respect who don't > expect to get paid to talk to you. > > At 03:14 PM 7/21/2010, you wrote: >> >> ****Wait, I need to correct something here. Sorry. (Note to self, >> always proofread meticulously.)**** >> >> Corrected version: >> >> I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. >> unestablished poets, pre-MFA/AWP generation vs. MFA/AWP generation. >> First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the former, >> and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a >> slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and >> powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so >> much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on the >> table. >> >> But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are nowadays, >> being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. >> Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers that >> be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep writing, >> reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere >> crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our >> crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) >> >> Nana Zabic >> >> P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run the >> journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, and >> how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long >> story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; no >> silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the word >> "submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent nepotism >> (I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the >> past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, we >> might have fee+prize contest in the future... >> >> P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. You >> get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble for >> a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard to >> generalize. >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. =A0Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and throu= gh > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 > fragments are like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets left ou= t, the > more they seem to contain=85 One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musi= cal > threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:05:01 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: michael farrell Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <20100722.124807.292.32.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQoNCmltIG5ldyB0byB0aGlzIGxpc3QgLSAmIGF0IHRoZSByaXNrIG9mIHNvdW5kaW5nIGxpa2Ug bXJzIGxvdmVqb3kgb24gdGhlIHNpbXBzb25zICh3b250IHNvbWVvbmUgdGhpbmsgYWJvdXQgdGhl IGNoaWxkcmVuIT8pIHdoZXJlIGNoaWxkcmVuPXdyaXRpbmcNCg0KaXQgc2VlbXMgdGhhdCBwYXJ0 IG9mIHRoaXMgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiByZXZvbHZlcyBhcm91bmQgY29sbGVjdGl2ZSB3b3JrIChnb29k KSBhbmQgaW5kaXZpZHVhbCB3b3JrIChiYWQ9c2NobW9vemluZyBldGMpDQoNCnRob3VnaCBzb21l b25lIGRpZCBzdWdnZXN0IGNvbGxlY3RpdmVzIGNvdWxkIGJlIHNlZW4gYXMgY3Jvbnlpc20uLg0K 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compromise re contests. none. there really is no room for= it -- at least not in my own sense of the landscape. as i say, i think mod= els need to be offered that _completely_ disavow these practices.=20 not sure if you've followed recent conversations re Salt, but, man -- well,= take another look. i know at last half a dozen younger poets that publishe= d w/ Chris & will never do so again for what seem incredibly compelling rea= sons connected to the Salt business model.=C2=A0=20 hugs ... rich ...=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 5:07 PM Rich--I love you and I tend to trust your assessment here, but seriously: "ANY press that shakes young poets down for a reading fee FORECLOSES on its own relevance. they are to be ignored. NO exceptions. NO compromise." Walk it back, man. No Salt? No Kelsey St. (I think they had a fee recently, though this might be wrong)? No Ahsahta? No Omnidawn? No Nightboat? This is a major erasure. I don't think I need to list individual titles here to mak= e that point. Probably missing a few in my list, but my sense is that there are presses out there doing seriously fucking viable work on that model (or in spite of it). No way for a more complicated take on this? I wonder if we might hear from any of the folks associated w/any of the presses above on their choice to run contests and/or charge reading fees. CJ Martin On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:13 AM, richard owens wr= ote: > NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice (i've > addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for flarf as a > wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive riposte to usurous po > industry practices. flarf first announces itself _thru_ the figure of poe= try > contests. > > Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: > > "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry list, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a number of people began posting in horror at = finding their > names, with >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I re= member going to > the site >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and realizing immediately it was one of those = "poetry contest" >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 scams. A year or so before that I had spoken o= n the phone with > my grandfather, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not many days before he died, and he had told = me then how proud > he was >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that he had won some sort of poetry contest, a= nd that he had > ordered the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, a= nd once I was on > the poetry.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 site, I wrote what I thought would be the most= offensive poem I > could >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 manage, and submitted it to the "contest": > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mm-hmm > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big birds make > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big doo! I got fire inside > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my "huppa"-chimp(TM) > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wanna DOOT! DOOT! > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 off the paddy field and git > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 me some chocolate Quik > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 syndrome what's it called tourette's > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 make me HAI-EE! shout out loud > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening! > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To my amazement, I received, about three weeks= later, a letter > from poetry.com, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with my poem fully visible through the celloph= ane window of the > envelope. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The letter, in part, read: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted a= n exhaustive > examination >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of over 1.2 million poems that have been submi= tted to us. Only a >=C2=A0 small >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 percentage of individuals whose poems we have = reviewed were > selected to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-hm= m' was selected > for >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 publication because it sparks the imagination = and provides the > reader >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We b= elieve it will add >=C2=A0 to the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 importance and appeal of this special edition.= _Of course, Gary, >=C2=A0 as always, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you are under no obligation whatsoever to subm= it any entry fee > or subsidy >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. Y= our poem will be > presented >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the most elegant way possible. This coffee-= table quality book >=C2=A0 will >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped i= n gold and a satin >=C2=A0 bookmarker >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A6" > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 And it went on like that. I can't remember if = I said anything > about this >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsub= scribed by then), > but I >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 was on the subpoetics list at the time, and po= sted something > about it, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and encouraged others to submit poems to poetr= y.com. There were a >=C2=A0 few >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Dre= w Gardner. > Meanwhile, Nada, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of the= se awful poems, > and submitting >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them to the site under a variety of different = names. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" mat= erialized-it may >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's, = I'm not sure. But > somehow, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having th= e quality >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of flarfiness." We now began to look at other = things and to see > them >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it mea= nt-something akin >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to "campy," but with somewhat different resona= nces. More > awkward, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voice= " in >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my head was that of my father, a transplanted = southerner, who > likes to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions tha= t kind of horrify > me." > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 17:12:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nana Zabic Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <20100722.133202.292.46.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve, I hear you. Major OUCH. But I can't stop, that's what I feel, though I think you totally misunderstood me. I'm gladly as far away from Christ as possible, if we're talking about the guy who claimed to be the son of god and a virgin, and around whom a major religion was created etc. Nana Zabic On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:02 AM, steve dalachinsky wrot= e: > > STOP WITH THIS STUFF "IF WE ARE DEEP IN THE SHADOWS WE MUST BE DOING > SOMETHING RIGHT" > THAT IS MERE CHRIST COMPLEX POESIE CRAP - IF WE ARE AT ALL WORTHY SOME > WILL RISE THO MOSTLY ONLY > THE SH**T FLOATS =A0- AND IF WE ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO STEP OUT OF THE SHADO= WS > OUR WORK CAN BE SEEN BY A LARGER AUDIENCE (THO STILL QUITE SMALL) PERHAPS > APPRECIATED AND MAYBE WE CAN HELP EVEN EVER SO SLIGHTLY (THO I AM A > SKEPTIC IN SUCH MATTERS) TO MOVE PEOPLE AND MAKE MINOR POSITIVE > ALTERATIONS IN THE CRACKS--- =A0i'm sure everyone on this list knows of o= r > knows personally someone of wot=3Drth who has risen ever so slightly out = of > the shadows =A0even if only to receive the acknowledgement they deserve b= y > our small rather fragmented community > > i also agree with mark on some points and pierre tho not on all points > we can't get notoriety etc just on the services we perform =A0tho i can > name many wo's work (which is medicre) > have climbed up the proverbial ladder on that and then the work gets > focusded on after > same with teacher/student relationships =A0- =A0wow hot gonna take a dip > and cash a check for a poet's job well done > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:10:18 -0500 Nana Zabic > writes: >> I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. >> unestablished poets, MFA/AWP generation vs. pre-MFA/AWP generation. >> First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the >> former, >> and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a >> slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and >> powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so >> much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on >> the >> table. >> >> But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are >> nowadays, >> being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. >> Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers >> that >> be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep >> writing, >> reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere >> crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our >> crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) >> >> Nana Zabic >> >> P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run >> the >> journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, >> and >> how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long >> story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; >> no >> silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the >> word >> "submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent >> nepotism >> (I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the >> past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, >> we >> might have fee+prize contest in the future... >> >> P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. >> You >> get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble >> for >> a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard >> to >> generalize. >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:12:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mary Kasimor Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that reading and reading poetry is very important in learning how t= o write poetry. I also think that learning how to write poetry by simply wr= iting it is the way to becoming a poet.=20 I did not have the chance to get an MFA for several different reasons. Now = I am glad that I didn't have that chance. I do have an MA in English, and I= teach freshman composition. I would not want to teach creative writing; th= at I know.=20 I feel very ambivalent about the poetry community, maybe because I am physi= cally removed from it.I don't hang out with other poets. I do think that I = will continue writing, even though I often have moments when I wonder why I= put so much of my energy into my writing. I also have these moments of cla= rity when I wonder why I write. I suppose that I continue to write poetry b= ecause find it an interesting way to understand myself.I also understand th= at sometimes I need affirmation--I need to get published so that I feel tha= t my poetry has some merit--but maybe it really doesn't. I don't know. The bottom line is that poetry can be a profound way of expression, and we = do play lots of silly games that have nothing to do with the real importanc= e of poetry. --- On Wed, 7/21/10, Mark Weiss wrote: From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 8:01 PM It always costs somebody something to get an MFA,=20 whether it's a foundation or a university=20 endowment, all funds that can't be used other ways. And there are other ways to get an education.=20 Here's mine: be a psychiatric social worker for=20 15 years and raise a child, while reading=20 everything you can get your hands on and=20 communicating with poets you respect who don't=20 expect to get paid to talk to you. At 03:14 PM 7/21/2010, you wrote: >****Wait, I need to correct something here. Sorry. (Note to self, >always proofread meticulously.)**** > >Corrected version: > >I think there is no need for pitting established poets vs. >unestablished poets, pre-MFA/AWP generation vs. MFA/AWP generation. >First of all, the latter learn everything they know from the former, >and the former may learn new things from the latter. Second, in a >slightly larger picture, we are all pretty insignificant and >powerless. That fact might be the underlying reason why there is so >much frustration, and why it seems we're fighting over crumbs on the >table. > >But when you look at who celebrities and powerful people are nowadays, >being so deep in the shadow must mean we're doing something right. >Think about it. On the one hand, we are left alone by the powers that >be. On the other hand, there are resources available to keep writing, >reading, publishing, and sharing work. These resources may be mere >crumbs on the table, but they do. (James Franco, stay away from our >crumbs! Actually, no, throw us a loaf of bread! ;-)) > >Nana Zabic > >P.S. I can write about how we (grad students who founded and run the >journal) raise money for Packingtown Review, and how we spend it, and >how our university affiliation works, if anyone is interested. Long >story short, it takes a lot of time and effort to raise the money; no >silver spoons in sight. As far as other policies, we do use the word >"submission," we read year-round, we have a system to prevent nepotism >(I can provide details about that too), we ran one contest in the >past, which didn't charge fees, but offered no cash prize either, we >might have fee+prize contest in the future... > >P.P.S. Sometimes it costs almost nothing to get an MFA and a Ph.D. You >get a tuition waiver, a TA-ship, live very modestly, and scramble for >a summer job. There are all kinds of scenarios, though, it's hard to >generalize. > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16.=C2=A0 Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=E2=80=99 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=E2=80=99s short stories=C2=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=E2=80=A6 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=E2=80=A6[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 15:35:13 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHRIS: the last missive i launched went to the list but was intended as a private = msg.=20 but to consider yr comment in a more public -- & more measured -- way, Chri= s, i'd say if we are to insist on the relevance of presses that participate= in questionable practices, if we are not to ignore them, then we need to p= ut pressure on them to develop different models for generating dough, locat= ing new (younger) poets, etc -- viz. call these presses out on requests for= reading fees, critique the deep logic that makes contests appear inviting = & desirable. man, contests really are a filthy way to generate cash. both y= ou & i, along with any number of others on this list, well recognize how fa= r a nice chunk of change can go re making bks, but there are ways of genera= ting that kind of cash without creating an environment that motivates young= poets to produce work _toward_ an idea of winning (which always presuppose= s losers), or _toward_ an idea of success, or _toward_ an idea of "breaking= onto" a Free-Mason-like poetry scene as tho it were Hollywood.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 man, i have the deepest respect for yr work -- LRL, Dos Press, etc -- & thi= s is work that, i think like my own, doesn't participate in the practices i= 'm taking issue with here. & i see yr point re bracketing out important wri= ting by good presses that happen also to organize contests, etc. but i rema= in convinced that the contest model (and, with it, the language of submissi= on) cannot be modified, reformulated or recuperated -- it has to be tossed.= =C2=A0=20 hugs ... rich ...=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Thu, 7/22/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 5:07 PM Rich--I love you and I tend to trust your assessment here, but seriously: "ANY press that shakes young poets down for a reading fee FORECLOSES on its own relevance. they are to be ignored. NO exceptions. NO compromise." Walk it back, man. No Salt? No Kelsey St. (I think they had a fee recently, though this might be wrong)? No Ahsahta? No Omnidawn? No Nightboat? This is a major erasure. I don't think I need to list individual titles here to mak= e that point. Probably missing a few in my list, but my sense is that there are presses out there doing seriously fucking viable work on that model (or in spite of it). No way for a more complicated take on this? I wonder if we might hear from any of the folks associated w/any of the presses above on their choice to run contests and/or charge reading fees. CJ Martin On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:13 AM, richard owens wr= ote: > NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice (i've > addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for flarf as a > wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive riposte to usurous po > industry practices. flarf first announces itself _thru_ the figure of poe= try > contests. > > Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: > > "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry list, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a number of people began posting in horror at = finding their > names, with >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I re= member going to > the site >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and realizing immediately it was one of those = "poetry contest" >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 scams. A year or so before that I had spoken o= n the phone with > my grandfather, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not many days before he died, and he had told = me then how proud > he was >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that he had won some sort of poetry contest, a= nd that he had > ordered the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, a= nd once I was on > the poetry.com >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 site, I wrote what I thought would be the most= offensive poem I > could >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 manage, and submitted it to the "contest": > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mm-hmm > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big birds make > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big doo! I got fire inside > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my "huppa"-chimp(TM) > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wanna DOOT! DOOT! > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 off the paddy field and git > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 me some chocolate Quik > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 syndrome what's it called tourette's > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 make me HAI-EE! shout out loud > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening! > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To my amazement, I received, about three weeks= later, a letter > from poetry.com, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with my poem fully visible through the celloph= ane window of the > envelope. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The letter, in part, read: > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted a= n exhaustive > examination >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of over 1.2 million poems that have been submi= tted to us. Only a >=C2=A0 small >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 percentage of individuals whose poems we have = reviewed were > selected to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-hm= m' was selected > for >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 publication because it sparks the imagination = and provides the > reader >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We b= elieve it will add >=C2=A0 to the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 importance and appeal of this special edition.= _Of course, Gary, >=C2=A0 as always, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you are under no obligation whatsoever to subm= it any entry fee > or subsidy >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. Y= our poem will be > presented >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the most elegant way possible. This coffee-= table quality book >=C2=A0 will >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped i= n gold and a satin >=C2=A0 bookmarker >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A6" > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 And it went on like that. I can't remember if = I said anything > about this >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsub= scribed by then), > but I >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 was on the subpoetics list at the time, and po= sted something > about it, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and encouraged others to submit poems to poetr= y.com. There were a >=C2=A0 few >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Dre= w Gardner. > Meanwhile, Nada, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of the= se awful poems, > and submitting >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them to the site under a variety of different = names. > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" mat= erialized-it may >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's, = I'm not sure. But > somehow, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having th= e quality >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of flarfiness." We now began to look at other = things and to see > them >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it mea= nt-something akin >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to "campy," but with somewhat different resona= nces. More > awkward, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voice= " in >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my head was that of my father, a transplanted = southerner, who > likes to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions tha= t kind of horrify > me." > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:34:39 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <20100722.133202.292.46.skyplums@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To try another tactic: why write if not to do everything possible to increase one's knowledge, to make shiny poems, and to communicate? Isn't education a catalyst as much as experience? How else to seek a wider audience through publication than to find publishers with similar opinions about poetry? How better to engage with the community of writers than to curate reading series, publish others, teach, review, be an example in some way to younger writers? [I just saw the Telephone Press chap by Patti Smith at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame!] What are these opinions about poetry? How are they changing 1) because it is easier and cheaper to reach an audience, 2) because we all, to a certain extent, survived the poetry wars more recently than we received our inheritance from the Beats, the art-poets, the langpos? Is it so stupid to want to teach? To be a good teacher AND critic AND writer? To not spend an extended period in "post-college living at its finest"? I like what Lisa said about working from within the academic community, where somehow peer review has morphed into winning prizes, but only in the arts, because spirituality knows, there's no peer review in the arts : 0 Aren't the more experimental poets who teach pretty rockin'? Teaching's pretty easy and fun compared to making widgets for boneheads. Plus, the job involves mentoring other writers, which is hard to do in a peer-to-peer community model of poetry. Oh, and we were all teaching about poetry.com, including entering bad poems and discussing what's "bad" to show about it, looong before flarf. Out here in the boonies. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:57:19 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ha cute flarf an extract in a way of cutup methods should be noted however most flarfers were / are fairly established already as poets so silly experimenting isn't too risky for them at this point in history - where qlmost anything goes On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:13:42 -0700 richard owens writes: > NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice > (i've addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for > flarf as a wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive > riposte to usurous po industry practices. flarf first announces > itself _thru_ the figure of poetry contests. > > Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: > > "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry > list, > a number of people began posting in horror at finding their > names, with > poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I remember going > to > the site > and realizing immediately it was one of those "poetry > contest" > scams. A year or so before that I had spoken on the phone > with > my grandfather, > not many days before he died, and he had told me then how > proud > he was > that he had won some sort of poetry contest, and that he had > > ordered the > book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, and once I was > on > the poetry.com > site, I wrote what I thought would be the most offensive > poem I > could > manage, and submitted it to the "contest": > > > > Mm-hmm > > Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true > > big birds make > > big doo! I got fire inside > > my "huppa"-chimp(TM) > > gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god > > wanna DOOT! DOOT! > > Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! > > oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take > > AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) > > uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah > > hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get > > off the paddy field and git > > me some chocolate Quik > > put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick > > pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG > > fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that > > syndrome what's it called tourette's > > make me HAI-EE! shout out loud > > Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening! > > > > To my amazement, I received, about three weeks later, a > letter > from poetry.com, > with my poem fully visible through the cellophane window of > the > envelope. > The letter, in part, read: > > > > "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted an exhaustive > examination > of over 1.2 million poems that have been submitted to us. > Only a > small > percentage of individuals whose poems we have reviewed were > selected to > be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-hmm' was > selected > for > publication because it sparks the imagination and provides > the > reader > with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We believe it will > add > to the > importance and appeal of this special edition. _Of course, > Gary, > as always, > you are under no obligation whatsoever to submit any entry > fee > or subsidy > payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. Your poem will > be > presented > in the most elegant way possible. This coffee-table quality > book > will > feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped in gold and a > satin > bookmarker > …" > > > > And it went on like that. I can't remember if I said > anything > about this > on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsubscribed by > then), > but I > was on the subpoetics list at the time, and posted something > > about it, > and encouraged others to submit poems to poetry.com. There > were a > few > takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Drew Gardner. > Meanwhile, Nada, > Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of these awful > poems, > and submitting > them to the site under a variety of different names. > > > > Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" materialized-it > may > have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's, I'm not sure. > But > somehow, > "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having the quality > of flarfiness." We now began to look at other things and to > see > them > as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it meant-something > akin > to "campy," but with somewhat different resonances. More > awkward, > stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voice" in > my head was that of my father, a transplanted southerner, > who > likes to > pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions that kind of > horrify > me." > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:33:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Melnicove Subject: Bern Porter film In-Reply-To: C8676215.12D97%kyleschlesinger@gmail.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable JOY GLOWS WHERE CONFUSION WAS: a film about, with, and without Bern Port= er by Mark Melnicove can now be seen in its entirety at: bernporter.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:44:48 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jennifer Karmin Subject: Re: Unnatural Acts in Los Angeles MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi ed...good to hear from you.=C2=A0 thank you so much for the clarificatio= n and historical notes.=C2=A0 all is very helpful for our project.=0A=0Aami= na and i are definitely interested in hearing more about your experiences w= ith unnatural acts.=C2=A0 we believe it to be a landmark example of the pow= er of collaboration.=C2=A0 please be in touch.=0A=0Ahey poetics list friend= s -- any other unnatural acts collaborators out there?=C2=A0 anyone else ha= ve more info?=C2=A0 we'd love to hear more.=0A=0Aonwards,=0Ajen karmin=0A= =0A=0A-- On Thu, 7/22/10, Ed Friedman wrote:=0A=0A= Subject: Re: Unnatural Acts in Los Angeles=0ADate: Thursday, July 22, 2010,= 12:05 PM=0A=0A>>Dear Jennifer,=0A=0A>>I noted, with great interest, your U= nnatural Acts in Los Angeles posting. The 8-hour writing experiments of 197= 2-73, as documented in Unnatural Acts magazine, were terrific, exhausting, = wondrous, and horrifying. I love that you=E2=80=99re going to do a new vers= ion of them.=0A=0A>>Please feel free to mention me when you credit Unnatura= l Acts as your inspiration. You credit =E2=80=9CBernadette Mayer and others= .=E2=80=9D I don=E2=80=99t begrudge Bernadette getting star billing; she is= one of the great poets and teachers of our time. What could (and perhaps s= hould) be said is that Bernadette and I were coeditors of Unnatural Acts, a= nd that we were _both_ fundamentally involved in the formulation, execution= , and publication of those 1972-73 experiments. =0A=0A>>Thanks,=0AEd Friedm= an=0A=0A>>P.S. I look forward to reading what you and your collaborators co= me up with.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 02:08:45 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: 2 Poetics/spidertanglers-in a -long excellent review in current Rain Taxi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The current issue of Rain Taxi has a long two full page review of a book to which two Poetics/spidertanglers contributed --especially Maria Damon, co-editor of what is in many ways the first anthology of its kind (in the usa--at least--if not anywhere--))-- Poetry and Cultural Studies--A Reader edited by Maria and Ira Livingston Urbana &Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 2009 (appeared end of that year--) Maria contributed a wonderful essay--"Tell Them about Us: Some Poems from Southie (South Boston, of course!!--) Maria invited me to contribute a Visual Poetry piece she had chosen for the cover-- "Be Poem/Poem Being"-- for which i deeply thank her and also the great work on the overall cover design by Cope Copenhaver- a great pleasure and honor to work with Maria and Cope both and my deepest thanks --david-bc ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:38:18 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CPesticide_Drift=E2=80=9D_?= by F. A. Nettelbeck. Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CPesticide Drift=E2=80=9D by = F. A. Nettelbeck. Description: A thirty-six-page sequence from F. A. Nettelbeck's blog, =E2=80=9CSewing Me= mory=E2=80=9D, written between 2007 and 2010, =E2=80=9CPesticide Drift=E2= =80=9D presents Nettelbeck as both perpetrator and victim in the death of p= oetry and scandalizing myth. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/pesticide-drift/9128215 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:17:34 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich, Chris, Like others I have found this conversation rather interesting but like a fe= w here, Chris especially, I'd like YOU to offer what you might see as a pol= itically responsible publishing model. To be blunt--what is the source of f= unding for damn the caesars? I know lots of people who use their own funds = and state grants to support their presses but those models--siphoning capit= al--presuppose participation in a labor market and government subsidy model= that has its own, shall we say, political problems...I concur completely w= ith the winners/losers model re contests though I can't imagine many partic= ipants think of it that way (I won! I lost!). Don't they, as I do, see it s= imply as a way to support small presses and, as one commentator suggested, = don't come way with a "loser" noose hung around their necks (or minds)? And= , here's my real point, if they Do participate in the psychological game of= winners and losers, not participating in contests will in no way affect th= at mindset. I understand your critique of the business model that facilitat= es such thinking but you seem to be critiquing the end result of such think= ing--what about such thinking per se? Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: richard owens >Sent: Jul 22, 2010 6:35 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >CHRIS: > >the last missive i launched went to the list but was intended as a private= msg.=20 > >but to consider yr comment in a more public -- & more measured -- way, Chr= is, i'd say if we are to insist on the relevance of presses that participat= e in questionable practices, if we are not to ignore them, then we need to = put pressure on them to develop different models for generating dough, loca= ting new (younger) poets, etc -- viz. call these presses out on requests fo= r reading fees, critique the deep logic that makes contests appear inviting= & desirable. man, contests really are a filthy way to generate cash. both = you & i, along with any number of others on this list, well recognize how f= ar a nice chunk of change can go re making bks, but there are ways of gener= ating that kind of cash without creating an environment that motivates youn= g poets to produce work _toward_ an idea of winning (which always presuppos= es losers), or _toward_ an idea of success, or _toward_ an idea of "breakin= g onto" a Free-Mason-like poetry scene as tho it were Hollywood.=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 > >man, i have the deepest respect for yr work -- LRL, Dos Press, etc -- & th= is is work that, i think like my own, doesn't participate in the practices = i'm taking issue with here. & i see yr point re bracketing out important wr= iting by good presses that happen also to organize contests, etc. but i rem= ain convinced that the contest model (and, with it, the language of submiss= ion) cannot be modified, reformulated or recuperated -- it has to be tossed= .=C2=A0=20 > >hugs ... rich ...=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 > >........richard owens >810 richmond ave >buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >damn the caesars, the journal >damn the caesars, the blog > >--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: > >From: Little Red Leaves >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 5:07 PM > >Rich--I love you and I tend to trust your assessment here, but seriously: > >"ANY press that shakes young poets down for a reading fee FORECLOSES on it= s >own relevance. they are to be ignored. NO exceptions. NO compromise." > >Walk it back, man. No Salt? No Kelsey St. (I think they had a fee recently= , >though this might be wrong)? No Ahsahta? No Omnidawn? No Nightboat? This i= s >a major erasure. I don't think I need to list individual titles here to ma= ke >that point. Probably missing a few in my list, but my sense is that there >are presses out there doing seriously fucking viable work on that model (o= r >in spite of it). > >No way for a more complicated take on this? I wonder if we might hear from >any of the folks associated w/any of the presses above on their choice to >run contests and/or charge reading fees. > >CJ Martin > >On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:13 AM, richard owens w= rote: > >> NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice (i'v= e >> addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for flarf as = a >> wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive riposte to usurous p= o >> industry practices. flarf first announces itself _thru_ the figure of po= etry >> contests. >> >> Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: >> >> "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry list, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a number of people began posting in horror at= finding their >> names, with >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I r= emember going to >> the site >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and realizing immediately it was one of those= "poetry contest" >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 scams. A year or so before that I had spoken = on the phone with >> my grandfather, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not many days before he died, and he had told= me then how proud >> he was >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that he had won some sort of poetry contest, = and that he had >> ordered the >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, = and once I was on >> the poetry.com >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 site, I wrote what I thought would be the mos= t offensive poem I >> could >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 manage, and submitted it to the "contest": >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mm-hmm >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big birds make >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big doo! I got fire inside >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my "huppa"-chimp(TM) >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wanna DOOT! DOOT! >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 off the paddy field and git >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 me some chocolate Quik >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 syndrome what's it called tourette's >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 make me HAI-EE! shout out loud >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening= ! >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To my amazement, I received, about three week= s later, a letter >> from poetry.com, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with my poem fully visible through the cellop= hane window of the >> envelope. >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The letter, in part, read: >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted = an exhaustive >> examination >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of over 1.2 million poems that have been subm= itted to us. Only a >>=C2=A0 small >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 percentage of individuals whose poems we have= reviewed were >> selected to >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-h= mm' was selected >> for >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 publication because it sparks the imagination= and provides the >> reader >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We = believe it will add >>=C2=A0 to the >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 importance and appeal of this special edition= . _Of course, Gary, >>=C2=A0 as always, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you are under no obligation whatsoever to sub= mit any entry fee >> or subsidy >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. = Your poem will be >> presented >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the most elegant way possible. This coffee= -table quality book >>=C2=A0 will >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped = in gold and a satin >>=C2=A0 bookmarker >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A6" >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 And it went on like that. I can't remember if= I said anything >> about this >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsu= bscribed by then), >> but I >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 was on the subpoetics list at the time, and p= osted something >> about it, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and encouraged others to submit poems to poet= ry.com. There were a >>=C2=A0 few >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Dr= ew Gardner. >> Meanwhile, Nada, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of th= ese awful poems, >> and submitting >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them to the site under a variety of different= names. >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" ma= terialized-it may >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's,= I'm not sure. But >> somehow, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having t= he quality >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of flarfiness." We now began to look at other= things and to see >> them >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it me= ant-something akin >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to "campy," but with somewhat different reson= ances. More >> awkward, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voic= e" in >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my head was that of my father, a transplanted= southerner, who >> likes to >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions th= at kind of horrify >> me." >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > >--=20 >www.littleredleaves.com >www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Tyrone Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:15:40 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The difference, Catherine, is that a viable and=20 useful path for a few has become a set of expectations for the many. And by the way, re: "the job involves mentoring=20 other writers, which is hard to do in a peer-to-peer community model of poetry"--it's in=20 fact not so hard, was the norm in most places for=20 millennia. Though "peer-to-peer" may not be the=20 point. It may in any event have become harder now=20 that people expect to get paid for it. Best, Mark At 07:34 PM 7/22/2010, you wrote: >To try another tactic: why write if not to do everything possible to >increase one's knowledge, to make shiny poems, and to communicate? Isn't >education a catalyst as much as experience? > >How else to seek a wider audience through publication than to find >publishers with similar opinions about poetry? How better to engage with >the community of writers than to curate reading series, publish others, >teach, review, be an example in some way to younger writers? [I just saw >the Telephone Press chap by Patti Smith at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame!] > >What are these opinions about poetry? How are they changing 1) because it >is easier and cheaper to reach an audience, 2) because we all, to a certain >extent, survived the poetry wars more recently than we received our >inheritance from the Beats, the art-poets, the langpos? > >Is it so stupid to want to teach? To be a good teacher AND critic AND >writer? To not spend an extended period in "post-college living at its >finest"? I like what Lisa said about working from within the academic >community, where somehow peer review has morphed into winning prizes, but >only in the arts, because spirituality knows, there's no peer review in the >arts : 0 Aren't the more experimental poets who teach pretty rockin'? > Teaching's pretty easy and fun compared to making widgets for boneheads. > Plus, the job involves mentoring other writers, which is hard to do in a >peer-to-peer community model of poetry. > >Oh, and we were all teaching about poetry.com, including entering bad poems >and discussing what's "bad" to show about it, looong before flarf. Out= here >in the boonies. > >-- >All best, >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:15:02 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Katz Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant Richards, when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says something like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish civilization by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely polished looking glass." Something like that. a I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is fascin= ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 Thi= nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being =0Agut= tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; our= =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 Th= e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; =0A= realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," lik= e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't work= . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the d= arkness of our current fetishism? ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:04:49 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Call for articles Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue , ederi , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , obodooha@yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Call for articles CONTEXT: Journal of Social & Cultural Studies (ISSN 1119 =96 9229) http://contextjournal.wordpress.com/ hereby calls for submissions to its December 2010 edition. The journal publishes peer-reviewed essays, creative works, and book reviews in all aspects of culture and society. It is particularly looking out for contributions that try to make interesting and unusual connections, for instance creative works that could as well be viewed as critical reflections. For more information on submission guidelines, visit: http://contextjournal.wordpress.com/submission-of-articles/ All submissions are to be made electronically to context@fastmail.fm or to Obododimma Oha (editor): mmanwu@go.com . Deadline for submissions: October 5, 2010. --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:08:47 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 so, typically for this list, we've moved from questioning the culture of prizes -- which in most cases are a sort of poetry raffle, but have become a trophy to brandish at hiring and tenure committees -- to saying that 1) people shouldn't work for money to subsidize their practice, 2) teachers shouldn't get paid, 3) creative writing shouldn't be taught and this is communicated in the actual work? -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:11:13 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right. But the big question is what we want to do with our mirro= Adam,=0A=0ARight. But the big question is what we want to do with our mirro= rs.=0A=0ANot everyone's good with polish.=0A=0AAdam=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_________= _______________________=0AFrom: Adam Katz =0ATo: = POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=0ASent: Fri, July 23, 2010 10:15:02 AM=0ASubje= ct: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry"=0A=0AIn regard to Fieled's po= sting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant Richards,=0Awhen he's trying to g= et Dubliners published and fighting against the=0Acensorship of certain com= mon though blasphemous words, he says something=0Alike "I seriously believe= you will retard the course of Irish civilization=0Aby preventing them from= having a look at itself in my nicely polished=0Alooking glass."=A0 Somethi= ng like that.=0Aa=0A=0A=0A=0A=A0 =A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= =3D=0A=0A=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 David,=3D0A=3D0A=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 I'll adm= it I haven't read Marx's enti=3D=0Are oeuvre, but the intermingling of =3D0= Aspirituality & materialism is fascin=3D=0Aating, and I have=3DA0perused De= leuze/Guattari =3D0Aas well.=3D0A=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0 Thi=3D=0Ank of what's= happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being =3D0Agut=3D=0Atere= d for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; our=3D= =0A=3D0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=3D0A=3DA0=3DA= 0=3DA0=3DA0 Th=3D=0Ae spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphys= ical dimensions; =3D0A=3D=0Arealms that are based, somewhat idealistically,= on "soul" and "spirit," lik=3D=0Ae the =3D0AWhitmanic.=3D0A=3DA0=3DA0=3DA0= =3DA0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't work=3D=0A. What about a new spir= ituality =3D0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the d=3D=0Aarkness of our = current fetishism?=0A=0A=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0AThe Poetics List is m= oderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & =0Asub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:16:24 -0500 Reply-To: halvard@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Go figure: I keep wanting to change this subject line to "The Poetry of the Spirituality of Decay." As you were. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf * ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:18:25 -0700 Reply-To: gfrym@earthlink.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gloria Frym Subject: Kathy Acker query Comments: To: UKPOETRY@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If someone were to play Kathy Acker in a stage production or (very) indie film, who would you nominate? Poets included. gfrym ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:11:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Michael Subject: Meltzer, Rothenberg, Carrion, Coolidge Benefit for Petaluma Poetry Walk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fundraiser for The Petaluma Poetry Walk "Rockpile with The Rabbles" David Meltzer, Michael Rothenberg, Terri Carrion and special guest Clark = Coolidge are joined by Bay Area art rock band, The Rabbles, jazz group = Free Rein and Petaluma's own High Class for a celebration of poetry and = music to raise funds for The Petaluma Poetry Walk. Friday, July 30, 2010 7-10pm The Phoenix Theater 201 Washington St. Petaluma, CA 94952 Admission $5-$15 All proceeds from this benefit performance go to The Petaluma Poetry = Walk =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 13:08:54 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: bill dixon memorial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit please spread to your lists that memorial for the great composer /trumpeter bill dixon will be july 31 at st marks church 5 pm On Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:15:40 -0400 Mark Weiss writes: > The difference, Catherine, is that a viable and > useful path for a few has become a set of expectations for the > many. > > And by the way, re: "the job involves mentoring > other writers, which is hard to do in a > peer-to-peer community model of poetry"--it's in > fact not so hard, was the norm in most places for > millennia. Though "peer-to-peer" may not be the > point. It may in any event have become harder now > that people expect to get paid for it. > > Best, > > Mark > > At 07:34 PM 7/22/2010, you wrote: > >To try another tactic: why write if not to do everything possible > to > >increase one's knowledge, to make shiny poems, and to communicate? > Isn't > >education a catalyst as much as experience? > > > >How else to seek a wider audience through publication than to find > >publishers with similar opinions about poetry? How better to > engage with > >the community of writers than to curate reading series, publish > others, > >teach, review, be an example in some way to younger writers? [I > just saw > >the Telephone Press chap by Patti Smith at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of > Fame!] > > > >What are these opinions about poetry? How are they changing 1) > because it > >is easier and cheaper to reach an audience, 2) because we all, to a > certain > >extent, survived the poetry wars more recently than we received > our > >inheritance from the Beats, the art-poets, the langpos? > > > >Is it so stupid to want to teach? To be a good teacher AND critic > AND > >writer? To not spend an extended period in "post-college living at > its > >finest"? I like what Lisa said about working from within the > academic > >community, where somehow peer review has morphed into winning > prizes, but > >only in the arts, because spirituality knows, there's no peer > review in the > >arts : 0 Aren't the more experimental poets who teach pretty > rockin'? > Teaching's pretty easy and fun compared to making widgets for > boneheads. > > Plus, the job involves mentoring other writers, which is hard to > do in a > >peer-to-peer community model of poetry. > > > >Oh, and we were all teaching about poetry.com, including entering > bad poems > >and discussing what's "bad" to show about it, looong before flarf. > Out here > >in the boonies. > > > >-- > >All best, > >Catherine Daly > >c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > > >================================== > >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept > >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a > lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the > poet alive in every sense of the word, and > through every one of his senses. Instead of > missing a beat or a part, Weiss’ fragments are > like Chekhov’s short stories­the more that gets > left out, the more they seem to contain… One can > hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its > core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment > is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure > musical threnody…[it] opens a window, not only > into a mind, but a person, a personality, this > human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:58:18 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: con tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit literary con tests. they affirm what they would deny and deny what they would affirm. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:15:05 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Rich, (& Tyrone, Noah et al)--I think the reason I chimed in here was that I don't see the absence of contests or reading fees as inherently more responsible than otherwise. I think Noah spoke to this (& much else) pretty candidly above, as did Tyrone, as have others. Specifically, I think it'd be worth addressing how presses that build their lists primarily through solicitation & publish out of pocket (or through grant money or some other institutional funding source) *can easily replicate* the basic economy of the version of the contest model that deserves critique, where resumes and connections are eventually a bottom line. Can replicate that economy even when they want to push against it. Publishing might generally move towards establishing a standard of legitimacy, even if only as a result of the thinking Tyrone's pointing out that precedes the contest model or has a life outside of that model. For my own part (and I imagine for many other folks in this conversation), the publishing I value takes upon itself the effort to resist that movement--to open up alternatives, to add possibilities for prosody rather than foreclosing on them, to *politicize* publication in that way--but we might admit that it never fully escapes a relation to that economy. Especially if it has a strong aesthetic affiliation, even just a clear idea of where things need to be opened up. That is, a press encourages this "writing toward" by virtue of its own activity, it seems to me--contest or no. I know there's a difference between a well received intervention in a discourse & a well received entry in a contest, but it just seems like stopping short of really examining this thing to say that it's all the faul= t of how the funds are gathered or that the former doesn't involve endorsing = a measure for success. I think Tyrone's totally right to point out that funding sources can be an ugly game even in the public/institutional sphere. For that matter, even in the pass-the-plate sphere, even in the publishing collective sphere. My sense, Rich, is that your call is (in part) for a rigidly activist publishing--which I admire greatly. I guess I just don't see how or why tha= t activism should adopt a "no compromise" stance in relation to other presses= ' efforts, especially if it's meant as a gesture towards collectivist work. "No compromise" in the interest of what, exactly? I mean, if the question here is how to do ethical publishing (and in the end I'm not entirely certain that's the question you seem to be posing--or at least there's a demand for "legit" publishing or some as-yet-unnamed x-factor that's seriously competing w/the ethical demand), then "no compromise" is a pretty dangerous misstep. Hugs (more hugs after all!--it always cracks me up that you close this way = & I wanted to return the sentiment, sincerely), Chris On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > The difference, Catherine, is that a viable and useful path for a few has > become a set of expectations for the many. > > And by the way, re: "the job involves mentoring other writers, which is > hard to do in a > peer-to-peer community model of poetry"--it's in fact not so hard, was th= e > norm in most places for millennia. Though "peer-to-peer" may not be the > point. It may in any event have become harder now that people expect to g= et > paid for it. > > Best, > > Mark > > > At 07:34 PM 7/22/2010, you wrote: > >> To try another tactic: why write if not to do everything possible to >> increase one's knowledge, to make shiny poems, and to communicate? Isn'= t >> education a catalyst as much as experience? >> >> How else to seek a wider audience through publication than to find >> publishers with similar opinions about poetry? How better to engage wit= h >> the community of writers than to curate reading series, publish others, >> teach, review, be an example in some way to younger writers? [I just sa= w >> the Telephone Press chap by Patti Smith at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame= !] >> >> What are these opinions about poetry? How are they changing 1) because = it >> is easier and cheaper to reach an audience, 2) because we all, to a >> certain >> extent, survived the poetry wars more recently than we received our >> inheritance from the Beats, the art-poets, the langpos? >> >> Is it so stupid to want to teach? To be a good teacher AND critic AND >> writer? To not spend an extended period in "post-college living at its >> finest"? I like what Lisa said about working from within the academic >> community, where somehow peer review has morphed into winning prizes, bu= t >> only in the arts, because spirituality knows, there's no peer review in >> the >> arts : 0 Aren't the more experimental poets who teach pretty rockin'? >> Teaching's pretty easy and fun compared to making widgets for boneheads= . >> Plus, the job involves mentoring other writers, which is hard to do in = a >> peer-to-peer community model of poetry. >> >> Oh, and we were all teaching about poetry.com, including entering bad >> poems >> and discussing what's "bad" to show about it, looong before flarf. Out >> here >> in the boonies. >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and throu= gh > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 > fragments are like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets left ou= t, the > more they seem to contain=85 One can hear echoes from all the various > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musi= cal > threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person, a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:23:35 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Chris Chapman Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You sound like Ezra Pound. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Adam Katz wrote: > In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant Richards, > when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the > censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says something > like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish civilization > by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely polished > looking glass." Something like that. > a > > > > I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= > > =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's > enti= > re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is > fascin= > ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Thi= > nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being > =0Agut= > tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; > our= > =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Th= > e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; > =0A= > realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," > lik= > e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't > work= > . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the > d= > arkness of our current fetishism? > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:26:25 -0800 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: carol dorf Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm not sure about this idea of America and spirituality -- we certainly are far more religious (i.e. participating in traditional religion) than people in other developed countries; though perhaps our religiosity interferes with the development of other spiritual perspectives. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Adam Katz wrote: > In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant Richards, > when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the > censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says something > like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish civilization > by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely polished > looking glass." Something like that. > a > > > > I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= > > =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's > enti= > re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is > fascin= > ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Thi= > nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being > =0Agut= > tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; > our= > =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 > Th= > e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; > =0A= > realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," > lik= > e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't > work= > . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the > d= > arkness of our current fetishism? > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 04:45:56 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: Re: USA Africa Dialogue Series - Call for articles Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue , ederi , "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , obodooha@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please, the email address of the journal is: NOT < context@fastmail.fm> . The error is regretted. -- Obododimma. On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Obododimma Oha wrote: > Call for articles > > CONTEXT: Journal of Social & Cultural Studies (ISSN 1119 =96 9229) > http://contextjournal.wordpress.com/ hereby calls for submissions to > its December 2010 edition. The journal publishes peer-reviewed essays, > creative works, and book reviews in all aspects of culture and > society. It is particularly looking out for contributions that try to > make interesting and unusual connections, for instance creative works > that could as well be viewed as critical reflections. For more > information on submission guidelines, visit: > http://contextjournal.wordpress.com/submission-of-articles/ All > submissions are to be made electronically to context@fastmail.fm or to > Obododimma Oha (editor): mmanwu@go.com . Deadline for submissions: > October 5, 2010. > > > -- > Obododimma Oha > http://udude.wordpress.com/ > > Dept. of English > University of Ibadan > Nigeria > > & > > Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies > University of Ibadan > > Phone: +234 803 333 1330; > +234 805 350 6604; > +234 808 264 8060. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "USA-Africa > Dialogue Series" moderated by Toyin Falola, University of Texas at Austin= . > For current archives, visit > http://groups.google.com/group/USAAfricaDialogue > For previous archives, visit > http://www.utexas.edu/conferences/africa/ads/index.html > To post to this group, send an email to > USAAfricaDialogue@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to USAAfricaDialogue- > unsubscribe@googlegroups.com --=20 Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 07:04:40 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Adam Fieled Subject: Goss 183 Chap: "Returns" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.magclo= I've got=A0a new chap, "Returns," out from Goss 183:=0A=0Ahttp://www.magclo= ud.com/browse/issue/100536=0A=0Ait can be read via the "Preview" button or = purchased.=0A=0AGracias to Didi Menendez....=0A=0ACheers!!=0AAdam=0A=0A=0A = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:51:22 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Richard Owens=2C I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school=2C I don't remember w= hat age exactly. I had read Lewis Carroll's Hunting of the Snark=2C which had scared the hol= y living crap out of me. I was so terrified=2C I didn't know what to do with myself. So I sat down a= nd wrote a poem=2C trying to write something even more terrifying than Hunt= ing of the Snark. I am not sure what my motivations were. I'm sure a good child psychologist = would have a theory or two. This has been=2C more or less=2C my relationship to writing for the last 40= years or so. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to what you're saying. A piece I wrote in th= e 90s and published in How To Proceed in the Arts=2C "First Draft Imaginary= Writer Survey=2C" ends with the questions: "Why do we call it 'submission'? What are we collectively 'accepting'? What= do we write about when we write about writing?" That said=2C I didn't post a bad poem to poetry.com to prove that such cont= ests are bad=2C as it appears Catherine=2C who beat me to the punch=2C did. Nor to prove that people who know nothing about poetry can't judge it=2C as= it appears Jennifer might believe. (I couldn't agree less with that sentim= ent.) I certainly did not do it to show up anyone's "usurious" practices. I do no= t like that word nor how it has been used to target a certain population. I did it because I was pissed off about what had happened to my grandfather= . Less so his having been duped by poetry.com--I had mixed feelings about t= hat=2C as it had actually given him some mild pleasure while he was on his = deathbed. He was in great pain and dying=2C after all. As consolation=2C po= etry.com made him feel as though he was a "real" poet. (Whatever that is.) = He recited his winning poem to me over the phone from memory while he was i= n the hospital.=20 I was really pissed off because he had died=2C coughing up blood in a hospi= tal with my grandmother at his side. I don't care whether or not poetry magazines or presses or universities or = individuals hold contests and charge entry fees. I have never entered one= =2C not one with a fee. But not because I am morally opposed to them. The s= imple truth is that I am a cheapskate. If I felt more than 75% sure that my= manuscript stood a chance=2C I might pay the money and send it. I like Noah Eli Gordon. I met him once in Denver. He was sweet and funny an= d talked a lot about poetry. Which he clearly loves. More than I do=2C cert= ainly. I have no interest in poetry beyond that which directly feeds=2C ins= pires=2C terrifies=2C surprises me. That which engages me. That's probably = true for him=2C too=2C though I would imagine that he's engaged in far more= being written today than I am.=20 I have no opinion one way or the other about any contest that he might be p= romoting or managing or dreaming up or whathaveyou. That's his business.=20 I do know that=2C when you are spotted doing anything beyond appearing to b= e a humble poet dutifully hunched over a desk in the corner crafting your s= ome-day important earth-shattering poems=2C that some poets sometimes like = to trash talk you=2C call you a capitalist=2C usurer=2C careerist=2C fraud= =2C whatever. Poetry is a religion for the people who do this. They are wel= come to it. I am a third or fourth generation atheist=2C and I have no inte= rest in magical or ritualized thinking about anything=2C least of all poetr= y.=20 I admire many of the people who have chimed in against poetry contests. But= no more or less so than I admire Noah. Or anyone=2C for that matter=2C who= might submit their work to the contest he announced. After all=2C my grandfather=2C who I loved very dearly=2C was a contest-sub= mitter. Indeed: a contest winner! And his poem actually made me cry when he= recited it to me=2C which is more than I can say for almost everything cur= rently in print=2C however it might have wound up there. This is not all to say that you are wrong to feel how you do about contests= . That's your business and you are of course as qualified as anyone else to= think about such things. Just that=2C though I appreciate the call-out=2C = I thought I should be open about the situation of having written that poetr= y.com poem and what my own honest feelings about contests are. To me=2C the= y are=2C like those words "submission" and "acceptance=2C" part of the land= scape=2C and do define us to some extent. Just like everything else. Gary =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:36:20 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what ya think of all the geese they're murderin save a few oil slicked birds in the gulf stream kill a few 1000 on the east coast and it's open season on bears right now as the news caster said on ch 2 you bears better watch out On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:57:19 +0530 steve dalachinsky writes: > ha cute flarf an extract in a way of cutup methods > > should be noted however most flarfers were / are fairly established > already as poets > so silly experimenting isn't too risky for them at this point in > history > - where qlmost anything goes > > On Thu, 22 Jul 2010 06:13:42 -0700 richard owens > writes: > > NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective > practice > > (i've addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration > for > > flarf as a wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive > > riposte to usurous po industry practices. flarf first announces > > itself _thru_ the figure of poetry contests. > > > > Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: > > > > "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry > > list, > > a number of people began posting in horror at finding > their > > names, with > > poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I remember going > > > to > > the site > > and realizing immediately it was one of those "poetry > > contest" > > scams. A year or so before that I had spoken on the phone > > with > > my grandfather, > > not many days before he died, and he had told me then how > > proud > > he was > > that he had won some sort of poetry contest, and that he > had > > > > ordered the > > book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, and once I > was > > on > > the poetry.com > > site, I wrote what I thought would be the most offensive > > poem I > > could > > manage, and submitted it to the "contest": > > > > > > > > Mm-hmm > > > > Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true > > > > big birds make > > > > big doo! I got fire inside > > > > my "huppa"-chimp(TM) > > > > gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god > > > > wanna DOOT! DOOT! > > > > Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! > > > > oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take > > > > AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) > > > > uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah > > > > hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get > > > > off the paddy field and git > > > > me some chocolate Quik > > > > put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick > > > > pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG > > > > fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that > > > > syndrome what's it called tourette's > > > > make me HAI-EE! shout out loud > > > > Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening! > > > > > > > > To my amazement, I received, about three weeks later, a > > letter > > from poetry.com, > > with my poem fully visible through the cellophane window > of > > the > > envelope. > > The letter, in part, read: > > > > > > > > "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted an exhaustive > > > examination > > of over 1.2 million poems that have been submitted to us. > > Only a > > small > > percentage of individuals whose poems we have reviewed > were > > selected to > > be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-hmm' was > > selected > > for > > publication because it sparks the imagination and provides > > > the > > reader > > with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We believe it > will > > add > > to the > > importance and appeal of this special edition. _Of course, > > > Gary, > > as always, > > you are under no obligation whatsoever to submit any entry > > > fee > > or subsidy > > payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. Your poem > will > > be > > presented > > in the most elegant way possible. This coffee-table > quality > > book > > will > > feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped in gold and a > > > satin > > bookmarker > > ?" > > > > > > > > And it went on like that. I can't remember if I said > > anything > > about this > > on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsubscribed by > > then), > > but I > > was on the subpoetics list at the time, and posted > something > > > > about it, > > and encouraged others to submit poems to poetry.com. There > > > were a > > few > > takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Drew Gardner. > > Meanwhile, Nada, > > Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of these awful > > poems, > > and submitting > > them to the site under a variety of different names. > > > > > > > > Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" materialized-it > > > may > > have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's, I'm not > sure. > > But > > somehow, > > "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having the quality > > of flarfiness." We now began to look at other things and > to > > see > > them > > as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it meant-something > > > akin > > to "campy," but with somewhat different resonances. More > > awkward, > > stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voice" in > > my head was that of my father, a transplanted southerner, > > who > > likes to > > pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions that kind of > > horrify > > me." > > > > > > > > > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 13:06:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Vernon Frazer Subject: * by Vernon Frazer now online Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1081) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Andrew Topel has just published *, a longpoem long in waiting for = publication. I want to thank Andrew and Avantacular Press for supporting = my work. http://www.scribd.com/doc/34761363/= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 10:09:06 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Adam: Thank you for your kind and thoughtful responses to all the posts-- in the last year i read a great deal of Mallarme's work-- and opening a book of his last night it struck me very much if you haven't already read his "poemes critiques"--poetic essays--there are several which might interest you-- just a few years ago an excellent english language edition of the poet's DIVIGATIONS appeared from Harvard Press's Belknap Prss, translated by Barbara Johnson--and it has among its quite wide range of peieces chosen by thepoet himself the famous essays "Crisis in Verse," "The Book as Spiritual Instrument," "Restricted Action," as well as Mallarme's piece on Wagner, among the music essays included. Mallarme thought of and wrote poetry and prose as the spiritual experience itself, following a long "dark night of the soul, " periodically undergone again to a greater or lesser degree, which series of spiritual crises brought him to poetry itself as being the site of the spiritual, as well as poetry alone having any use or meaning, a quite radical development The interest in Wagner led to Mallarme's expansion of the idea of the poem itself to include al the elements and more of Wagner's "Total Work of Art." Out of this conception of poetry as including music and dance, gesture and setting--Mallarme created what is often considered the first "Modern" work of Visual Poetry, "Un Coup de des n'abolira jamais le hasard"--(A Throw of the Dice will Never Abolish Chance') --the layout, spacing and uses of vast "silences," "blank areas"--functioning as the Visual Score for the sound/silence interplay in the composition, heard and felt as a poetry-musi= c spiritual experience. Here is a quote which may be of interest/use in taking a look/listening/performing of Poetry, Mallarme's and others': "Poetry is the expression, by means of human language brought back to its essential rhythm, of the mysterious sense of existence: thus it endows our stay on earth with authenticity and constitutes the spiritual task." An excellent source for the biographical frame/background of the developmen= t of Mallarm=E9's ideas is Gordon Millar's A THROW OF THE DICE The Life of Stephane Mallarme (New York: Farrar, Strauss & Giroux, 1994). (I shd note also that as far as politics is concerned, Mallarme numbered as friends many of the then famous, fashionable Anarchists of the 1890's, including among them especially his close friend and attendee of Mallarm=E9= 's famous Salon--Felix Feneon--at whose trial for being among the (non-existent) "Conpiracy of Thirty," Mallarme testified as character witness for the embattled Anarchist, Editor, Translator-- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:07:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <18316808.1279887454405.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TYRONE: i fully recognize how easy it is to critique current practices _without_ of= fering any sort of alternate model -- which is what i think you're point ou= t. i also think there are multiple forms of complicity and there are no han= ds grounded in cultural production that ain't been sullied or compromised -= - which, if i'm not misreading yr comment, also seems to be what yr saying.= aiming to respond here, so plz bear w/ the hasty, disjunctive notes. this thread has split (or can be split) into a number of directions, two in= particular: 1. politically responsible publishing models; 2. pedagogical a= pproaches to teaching writing and the relation of the MFA industry to publi= shing.=20 i'm not sure i can offer approaches to publishing that might be satisfying = to others, in large part because this is contingent on how others understan= d poetries, what they expect from the production of poems, etc. if the purs= uit is formal recognition or landing a book deal with a known, "respectable= ," career-friendly publisher, then i'm not sure anything i might have to su= ggest here works toward these goals. but if the aim is to enter into a conv= ersation or to support (or generate) a community of people with articulated= interests, then maybe some of the approaches i've taken in the past might = be of use -- but anything i've done myself has been modeled for me by other= s -- and so i think the question of pedagogy, of modeling, is incredibly im= portant here. damn the caesars has always been a journal of contemporary poetry and poeti= cs, but it emerges, like any number of other poetry mags, out of 90s zine c= ulture -- Tim Yohanan's Maximum Rock-n-Roll, Chris Boarts' Slug and Lettuce= (ABC-No-Rio), the Minneapolis mag Profane Existence (at once mag, record l= abel, community). these semi-autonomous communities were, thru the late 80s= & early 90s, articulated with one another, in conversation with one anothe= r. most were by and large anarcho-squatter operations -- newsprint pubs dis= tributed for free or sold only to cover the cost of production. i adopted t= his model in 2005 for the first 2 #s of DTC -- both of which i brought out = in NJ. covers were printed offset and guts run thru a laser jet printer in = my wife's living room. those first 2 #s included work by people i had been = in correspondence with for several years (Dale Smith, Roger Snell, Kent Joh= nson) and people i admired and tracked down (Amiri Baraka, Attila the Stockbroker, Clayton Eshleman). but both #s (in runs of 150) were paid= for completely out of pocket, on the $10 an hour i earned working as an ad= vocate for migrant farm workers (i recall here James Purdy's insistence tha= t he consistently spent far more on postage than he ever did on food).=20 in the spring of 2005 i moved to Buffalo to do graduate work in the Poetics= Program (a critical rather than creative program -- and the only program i= applied to). after soliciting the program for funding, Susan Howe, Steve M= cCaffery and Dennis Tedlock each generously supported the journal -- which = then allowed me to distribute it for far _less_ than the cost of production= . postage continued to come completely out of pocket (and, as an MA student= then, i drew these moneys from student loans i find myself still paying of= f). the last volume of DTC, which i just announced earlier this month, will= be the last funded by the Poetics Program and now i find myself struggling= again for a way to sustain the journal.=C2=A0=20 but something worth pointing out here is that, while funding from the depar= tment _can_ be viewed as a compromised source that inadvertently extends or= sustains the university _industry_, it's also crucial to recognize a few t= hings: 1) as editor/curator, i wasn't seeking to publish my own work (viz. = the journal wasn't a solipsistic venture wherein i place my own private int= erests or my own writing before others); 2) the Poetics Program has, since = its inception, generously supported an impressively catholic range of publi= shing ventures proposed within the program; 3) university funding comes fro= m a range of sources (however questionable), but filtered as these moneys a= re through an incredibly complex bureaucratic system, editors and artists t= hat apply for these funds (or, i think, arts funding in general) are not ex= actly performing in the same way as those publishers that introduce contest= schemes at the ground level. naturally i recognize there's far more that needs considering here, but this last difference between institutiona= l funding and ground-level contest schemes cannot, i think, be overstated.= =20 in terms of less-compromised publishing models, there are a few that come t= o mind. the most immediate simply involves purchasing a laser jet printer; = the web is an invaluable resource -- purchase a domain and construct an onl= ine journal (Shampoo, May Day, Jacket, a few others come to mind). altho _m= any_ wld disagree with me, i take blogs (Word Press, Blogspot, etc) as a st= unningly viable source of publication (both Thom Donovan and Sean Bonney, t= wo poets i deeply admire, publish _most_ of their work first on their blogs= , without shame and without apology & both are poets that many of us take v= ery seriously).=20 Boog City editor David A Kirschenbaum once told me a print run of 1500 news= print copies costs him less than $400 -- and most of this is, i believe, pa= id for thru advertising (perhaps a compromised practice, but these ads are = largely for small presses and magazines). this is a model i'm seriously con= sidering for future #s of DTC.=20 Print on demand (POD) offers a range of wonderful possibilities. BlazeVOX e= ditor Geoff Gatza, who, comes out of a string of virtually uncharted state = colleges and from a modest working class background, has in 10 years time s= ituated himself as a poor folk's James Laughlin -- and his view of publishi= ng is particularly exciting in its rigidly democratic, iconoclastic and lat= eralizing approach: Geoff believes EVERYONE shld have a bk, no exceptions -= - and this view, in its sheer beauty and within the frame of the MFA or AWP= industry, utterly devalues the single-author book as species of cultural c= urrency that can be thrown up on the market in service of careers, etc. Geo= ff's view, that is, angles toward the total collapse of privilege, genius, = etc.=20 other publishers that have gone the POD route: Shearsman, Salt, a range of = university presses bring out POD publications, the magazine ON: Contemporar= y Practice (edited by Michael Cross, Thom Donovan, Kyle Schlesinger) is run= thru Lulu.=20 so: Newsprint (with or without ads costs are still modest); POD (which does= n't require a publisher to hold, say, 400 copies of a title and minimizes w= aste -- no remaindered copies); the web (overhead for an online journal is = low) --- a few others i'd like to note, but ...=20 on the terrain of pedagogy, these models are, again, iconoclastic -- they o= ffer possibilities for lateralizing, for challenging the authority certain = journals, presses and publishers have, for whatever reasons, been invested = with. rather than "submit" (kow-tow) or tailor your work to match the sensi= bilities of magazines and publishers with cultural power (i.e. New Directio= ns, City Lights, Coffee House, any number of university presses, any number= of established small presses, etc), students can be encouraged to carve ou= t site and community specific spaces that meet their needs -- and they can = be encouraged to articulate their communities with others through conversat= ion and correspondence. there's a lot more to say here and i'd be grateful = to hear from others with publishing (and outreach) models we haven't yet co= nsidered.=20 the last publishing model i'm working with in an effort to simply cover the= cost of production is advanced subscription -- the approach Five Seasons P= ress used when bringing out Alan Halsey's Lives of the Poets, and one used = by Bill Griffiths' Pirate Press when he brought out a mimeo edition of Beow= ulf in the mid 1970s. Jed Birmingham uploaded some images from the mimeo ed= to his blog: http://mimeomimeo.blogspot.com/2009/11/pirated-beowulf.html (click on the image of the subscription page) here _advanced_ subscribers w= ho provide a press with the funding needed to bring out a publication are a= cknowledged _by name_ in that pub -- a practice which is, among other thing= s, very useful to scholars for considering community formation or tracking = down multiple copies of a particular publication. rather than asking young = poets for reading fees and rather than throwing them into competition with = one another (NB: here i'm not so sure poets entering contests regard the re= ading fee they pay as support for a press; i think most probably -- and sad= ly -- regard it as a monetary contribution that guarantees their work will = be read with some measure of care), advanced subscription acknowledges _eve= ryone_ that subscribed and it doesn't do so not by pitting people against o= ne another or fostering a competitive situation. if a potential subscriber = has no interest in a work, then they don't subscribe. it's that simple. with this model a sliding scale can be introduced to accommodate t= hose with little means that nonetheless seek to participate. my first stab = at the model:=20 http://damnthecaesars.org/kentjohnson.html anyhow -- with those first few issues of DTC (which i am, as ever, not sure= can be recognized as "successful"), i mailed dozens, if not hundreds, of c= opies out to poets i admired -- poets whose mailing addresses i painstaking= ly track down (tho many were generously provided to me by a friend, but he = was a friend i'd already been in correspondence with for over _5_ years). &= there's a difference to be noted here between poets one admires and those = that might be appealed to for name recognition (like, my mag published Ashb= ery or something). when poets i took interest in had kind things to say abo= ut the journal or useful insights, i didn't pimp out their comments -- i di= dn't reduce their generosity to the figure of a blurb.=20 but the view of publishing offered here is a _very_ particular view and it'= s one immediately articulated with a _very_ particular view of what poetry = and, more broadly, cultural production is and can be. i recognize this. but= the core question here is the question of "success" -- what it is, what it= means and, if we can establish this (and this is something i persistently = fail to do, no matter how much consideration i lend the question), then per= haps addressing how to move _toward_ achieving it an equitable, efficacious= and non-destructive way is the question that shld follow. in any case, the= se are questions i take as central to any consideration of writing, within = or without the classroom. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 &, Tyrone -- & Chris &c -- i don't take this as an "answer" to any of the q= uestions you posed so much as an invitation to consider these issues furthe= r. i mean, tho others might disagree, i got a clear & unswerving sense of h= ow i feel abt prize culture, poetry contests and reading fees -- but in ter= ms of efficacious publishing models, pedagogical approaches to writing in (= or outside) the classroom, etc -- i really wld like to hear more.=20 hugs ... rich ...=20 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 =C2=A0 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Fri, 7/23/10, tyrone williams wrote: From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 8:17 AM Rich, Chris, Like others I have found this conversation rather interesting but like a fe= w here, Chris especially, I'd like YOU to offer what you might see as a pol= itically responsible publishing model. To be blunt--what is the source of f= unding for damn the caesars? I know lots of people who use their own funds = and state grants to support their presses but those models--siphoning capit= al--presuppose participation in a labor market and government subsidy model= that has its own, shall we say, political problems...I concur completely w= ith the winners/losers model re contests though I can't imagine many partic= ipants think of it that way (I won! I lost!). Don't they, as I do, see it s= imply as a way to support small presses and, as one commentator suggested, = don't come way with a "loser" noose hung around their necks (or minds)? And= , here's my real point, if they Do participate in the psychological game of= winners and losers, not participating in contests will in no way affect that mindset. I understand your critique of the business model that= facilitates such thinking but you seem to be critiquing the end result of = such thinking--what about such thinking per se? Tyrone -----Original Message----- >From: richard owens >Sent: Jul 22, 2010 6:35 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >CHRIS: > >the last missive i launched went to the list but was intended as a private= msg.=20 > >but to consider yr comment in a more public -- & more measured -- way, Chr= is, i'd say if we are to insist on the relevance of presses that participat= e in questionable practices, if we are not to ignore them, then we need to = put pressure on them to develop different models for generating dough, loca= ting new (younger) poets, etc -- viz. call these presses out on requests fo= r reading fees, critique the deep logic that makes contests appear inviting= & desirable. man, contests really are a filthy way to generate cash. both = you & i, along with any number of others on this list, well recognize how f= ar a nice chunk of change can go re making bks, but there are ways of gener= ating that kind of cash without creating an environment that motivates youn= g poets to produce work _toward_ an idea of winning (which always presuppos= es losers), or _toward_ an idea of success, or _toward_ an idea of "breakin= g onto" a Free-Mason-like poetry scene as tho it were Hollywood.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 > >man, i have the deepest respect for yr work -- LRL, Dos Press, etc -- & th= is is work that, i think like my own, doesn't participate in the practices = i'm taking issue with here. & i see yr point re bracketing out important wr= iting by good presses that happen also to organize contests, etc. but i rem= ain convinced that the contest model (and, with it, the language of submiss= ion) cannot be modified, reformulated or recuperated -- it has to be tossed= .=C2=A0=20 > >hugs ... rich ...=C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 > >........richard owens >810 richmond ave >buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >damn the caesars, the journal >damn the caesars, the blog > >--- On Thu, 7/22/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: > >From: Little Red Leaves >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Thursday, July 22, 2010, 5:07 PM > >Rich--I love you and I tend to trust your assessment here, but seriously: > >"ANY press that shakes young poets down for a reading fee FORECLOSES on it= s >own relevance. they are to be ignored. NO exceptions. NO compromise." > >Walk it back, man. No Salt? No Kelsey St. (I think they had a fee recently= , >though this might be wrong)? No Ahsahta? No Omnidawn? No Nightboat? This i= s >a major erasure. I don't think I need to list individual titles here to ma= ke >that point. Probably missing a few in my list, but my sense is that there >are presses out there doing seriously fucking viable work on that model (o= r >in spite of it). > >No way for a more complicated take on this? I wonder if we might hear from >any of the folks associated w/any of the presses above on their choice to >run contests and/or charge reading fees. > >CJ Martin > >On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:13 AM, richard owens w= rote: > >> NOTA: tho i have *deep* reservations re flarf as effective practice (i'v= e >> addressed this elsewhere), i have the *deepest* admiration for flarf as = a >> wildly frustrated, cavalier & incredibly productive riposte to usurous p= o >> industry practices. flarf first announces itself _thru_ the figure of po= etry >> contests. >> >> Cf. Sullivan on the emergence of flarf: >> >> "A couple of years ago, if you'll remember, on the Women's Poetry list, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a number of people began posting in horror at= finding their >> names, with >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 poems they hadn't written, on poetry.com. I r= emember going to >> the site >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and realizing immediately it was one of those= "poetry contest" >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 scams. A year or so before that I had spoken = on the phone with >> my grandfather, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 not many days before he died, and he had told= me then how proud >> he was >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that he had won some sort of poetry contest, = and that he had >> ordered the >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 book, etc. I had always felt bad about that, = and once I was on >> the poetry.com >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 site, I wrote what I thought would be the mos= t offensive poem I >> could >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 manage, and submitted it to the "contest": >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mm-hmm >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Yeah, mm-hmm, it's true >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big birds make >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 big doo! I got fire inside >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my "huppa"-chimp(TM) >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 gonna be agreessive, greasy aw yeah god >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 wanna DOOT! DOOT! >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pffffffffffffffffffffffffft! hey! >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 oooh yeah baby gonna shake & bake then take >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 AWWWWWL your monee, honee (tee hee) >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 uggah duggah buggah biggah buggah muggah >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 hey! hey! you stoopid Mick! get >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 off the paddy field and git >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 me some chocolate Quik >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 put a Q-tip in it and stir it up sick >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pocka-mocka-chocka-locka-DING DONG >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 fuck! shit! piss! oh it's so sad that >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 syndrome what's it called tourette's >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 make me HAI-EE! shout out loud >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Cuz I love thee. Thank you God, for listening= ! >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 To my amazement, I received, about three week= s later, a letter >> from poetry.com, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with my poem fully visible through the cellop= hane window of the >> envelope. >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The letter, in part, read: >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Gary, over the past year, we have conducted = an exhaustive >> examination >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of over 1.2 million poems that have been subm= itted to us. Only a >>=C2=A0 small >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 percentage of individuals whose poems we have= reviewed were >> selected to >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be part of this distinguished project. "'Mm-h= mm' was selected >> for >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 publication because it sparks the imagination= and provides the >> reader >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 with a fresh, unique perspective on life. We = believe it will add >>=C2=A0 to the >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 importance and appeal of this special edition= . _Of course, Gary, >>=C2=A0 as always, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 you are under no obligation whatsoever to sub= mit any entry fee >> or subsidy >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 payment, or to make a purchase of any kind_. = Your poem will be >> presented >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the most elegant way possible. This coffee= -table quality book >>=C2=A0 will >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 feature an 'Arristock leather' cover stamped = in gold and a satin >>=C2=A0 bookmarker >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=A6" >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 And it went on like that. I can't remember if= I said anything >> about this >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the Women's Poetry list (I might have unsu= bscribed by then), >> but I >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 was on the subpoetics list at the time, and p= osted something >> about it, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and encouraged others to submit poems to poet= ry.com. There were a >>=C2=A0 few >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 takers, including Kasey Mohammad and maybe Dr= ew Gardner. >> Meanwhile, Nada, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mitch Highfill and I began writing more of th= ese awful poems, >> and submitting >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 them to the site under a variety of different= names. >> >> >> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Somewhere in all of this, the word "flarf" ma= terialized-it may >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have been Mitch's word, or Drew's, or Nada's,= I'm not sure. But >> somehow, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "flarf" began to take on a meaning: "having t= he quality >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 of flarfiness." We now began to look at other= things and to see >> them >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as "flarfy." I was never 100% sure what it me= ant-something akin >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to "campy," but with somewhat different reson= ances. More >> awkward, >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 stumbling, "wrong" than camp. The flarf "voic= e" in >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 my head was that of my father, a transplanted= southerner, who >> likes to >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 pontificate, and who has a lot of opinions th= at kind of horrify >> me." >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > >--=20 >www.littleredleaves.com >www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Tyrone Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:15:44 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's quite a leap, Catherine. Who's saying these things? At 12:08 PM 7/23/2010, you wrote: >so, typically for this list, we've moved from questioning the culture of >prizes -- which in most cases are a sort of poetry raffle, but have become= a >trophy to brandish at hiring and tenure committees -- to saying that 1) >people shouldn't work for money to subsidize their practice, 2) teachers >shouldn't get paid, 3) creative writing shouldn't be taught > >and this is communicated in the actual work? > >-- >All best, >Catherine Daly >c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:23:52 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHRIS: disclaimer: i love you, BUT: man, we all recognize in advance & at all time= s that THE most contingent force _at_ the present moment is capital -- whic= h is to say, capital has always masterfully denied absolute statements. thi= s denial is _precisely_=C2=A0 what guarantees the survival of capital: its = ability to please & adapt. but appeals to the absolute, even as a tactical = strategy, are sometimes necessary and here i'm saying point blank: no conte= sts. that simple. they're utterly indefensible. no compromise. & we can say= this is fascist, its rigid, its unswerving, it denies contingency, etc. bu= t at the present moment i feel gestures of complete disavowal have never be= en more necessary. & contests which require reading fees are one, among any= number of things, that have to be refused. we can unravel the logic of thi= s refusal, but in the end opening a space for small press publishers to int= roduce or participate in contests that shake poets down for "reading" fees is a destructive gesture.=20 hugs (w/out irony) ... rich ...=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Fri, 7/23/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Friday, July 23, 2010, 5:15 PM Dear Rich, (& Tyrone, Noah et al)--I think the reason I chimed in here was that I don't see the absence of contests or reading fees as inherently more responsible than otherwise. I think Noah spoke to this (& much else) pretty candidly above, as did Tyrone, as have others. Specifically, I think it'd be worth addressing how presses that build their lists primarily through solicitation & publish out of pocket (or through grant money or some other institutional funding source) *can easily replicate* the basic economy of the version of the contest model that deserves critique, where resumes and connections are eventually a bottom line. Can replicate that economy even when they want to push against it. Publishing might generally move towards establishing a standard of legitimacy, even if only as a result of the thinking Tyrone's pointing out that precedes the contest model or has a life outside of that model. For my own part (and I imagine for many other folks in this conversation), the publishing I value takes upon itself the effort to resist that movement--to open up alternatives, to add possibilities for prosody rather than foreclosing on them, to *politicize* publication in that way--but we might admit that it never fully escapes a relation to that economy. Especially if it has a strong aesthetic affiliation, even just a clear idea of where things need to be opened up. That is, a press encourages this "writing toward" by virtue of its own activity, it seems to me--contest or no. I know there's a difference between a well received intervention in a discourse & a well received entry in a contest, but it just seems like stopping short of really examining this thing to say that it's all the faul= t of how the funds are gathered or that the former doesn't involve endorsing = a measure for success. I think Tyrone's totally right to point out that funding sources can be an ugly game even in the public/institutional sphere. For that matter, even in the pass-the-plate sphere, even in the publishing collective sphere. My sense, Rich, is that your call is (in part) for a rigidly activist publishing--which I admire greatly. I guess I just don't see how or why tha= t activism should adopt a "no compromise" stance in relation to other presses= ' efforts, especially if it's meant as a gesture towards collectivist work. "No compromise" in the interest of what, exactly? I mean, if the question here is how to do ethical publishing (and in the end I'm not entirely certain that's the question you seem to be posing--or at least there's a demand for "legit" publishing or some as-yet-unnamed x-factor that's seriously competing w/the ethical demand), then "no compromise" is a pretty dangerous misstep. Hugs (more hugs after all!--it always cracks me up that you close this way = & I wanted to return the sentiment, sincerely), Chris On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Mark Weiss wrote: > The difference, Catherine, is that a viable and useful path for a few has > become a set of expectations for the many. > > And by the way, re: "the job involves mentoring other writers, which is > hard to do in a > peer-to-peer community model of poetry"--it's in fact not so hard, was th= e > norm in most places for millennia. Though "peer-to-peer" may not be the > point. It may in any event have become harder now that people expect to g= et > paid for it. > > Best, > > Mark > > > At 07:34 PM 7/22/2010, you wrote: > >> To try another tactic:=C2=A0 why write if not to do everything possible = to >> increase one's knowledge, to make shiny poems, and to communicate?=C2=A0= Isn't >> education a catalyst as much as experience? >> >> How else to seek a wider audience through publication than to find >> publishers with similar opinions about poetry?=C2=A0 How better to engag= e with >> the community of writers than to curate reading series, publish others, >> teach, review, be an example in some way to younger writers?=C2=A0 [I ju= st saw >> the Telephone Press chap by Patti Smith at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame= !] >> >> What are these opinions about poetry?=C2=A0 How are they changing 1) bec= ause it >> is easier and cheaper to reach an audience, 2) because we all, to a >> certain >> extent, survived the poetry wars more recently than we received our >> inheritance from the Beats, the art-poets, the langpos? >> >> Is it so stupid to want to teach?=C2=A0 To be a good teacher AND critic = AND >> writer?=C2=A0 To not spend an extended period in "post-college living at= its >> finest"? I like what Lisa said about working from within the academic >> community, where somehow peer review has morphed into winning prizes, bu= t >> only in the arts, because spirituality knows, there's no peer review in >> the >> arts : 0=C2=A0 Aren't the more experimental poets who teach pretty rocki= n'? >>=C2=A0 Teaching's pretty easy and fun compared to making widgets for bone= heads. >>=C2=A0 Plus, the job involves mentoring other writers, which is hard to d= o in a >> peer-to-peer community model of poetry. >> >> Oh, and we were all teaching about poetry.com, including entering bad >> poems >> and discussing what's "bad" to show about it, looong before flarf.=C2=A0= Out >> here >> in the boonies. >> >> -- >> All best, >> Catherine Daly >> c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > > New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. > $16.=C2=A0 Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm > > > "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a lovely concatenation of > particulars. Here is the poet alive in every sense of the word, and throu= gh > every one of his senses. Instead of missing a beat or a part, Weiss=E2=80= =99 > fragments are like Chekhov=E2=80=99s short stories=C2=ADthe more that get= s left out, the > more they seem to contain=E2=80=A6 One can hear echoes from all the vario= us > ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its core, is pure Mark Weiss. > His use of the fragment is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure musi= cal > threnody=E2=80=A6[it] opens a window, not only into a mind, but a person,= a > personality, this human figure at the emotional center of the poem." > > M.G. Stephens, in Jacket. > http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 14:49:16 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CNoise_Difficulty_Flower=E2=80=9D_?= by J. D. Nelson Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Description: Scratch-n-sniff the strange fragrance of J. D. Nelson's Noise Difficulty Flower. These 25 science fiction-scented surrealities were written between 2007 and 2010. Available as a free ebook here: http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/noise-difficulty-flower/9135845 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:22:27 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "E. J. McAdams" Subject: Tues. 7/27, NYC: James Sherry on Climate Change and Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 SEA Poetry Series, No. 4, featuring James Sherry Tuesday, July 27, 2009 7:00-9:00pm *EXIT ART, 475 10th Ave., NYC* *James Sherry* will read the essay, "Climate Change and Poetry" and the poem "Passive Voice: Forcing Amaryllis." Following the reading, The Canary Project, photographer Susannah Sayler and Edward Morris, whose work is featured in ECOAESTHETIC, will respond to the reading. James Sherry is the author of 10 books of poetry and criticism. His work on Environmental Poetics, both prose and poetry, is widely published in magazines and websites. He is the editor of Roof Books and founder of the Segue Foundation. He lives in New York City. The Canary Project produces visual media, events, and artwork that build public understanding of human-induced climate change and energize commitment to solutions. For more information visit: http://canary-project.org/old/html/ *All readings are $5 suggested donation** and take place at Exit Art, 475 10 th Avenue**, between 36th and 37th Street. Following each reading there will Q&A and a cash bar reception. The SEA Poetry Series is curated by E.J. McAdams.* * * UPCOMING: SEA Poetry Series, No. 5, featuring Julie Patton Tuesday, August 24th, 7-9pm Visit: www.seapoetryseries.blogspot.com for more info. * * ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 09:35:37 -0500 Reply-To: halvard@gmail.com Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Sol: new online literary magazine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: James Cervantes Date: Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 6:55 AM Subject: [New-Poetry] Sol: new online literary magazine To: new-poetry A new on-line literary magazine, Sol: English Writing in Mexico, edited by writers Bill Pearlman and Eva Hunter, is available to you at no cost. If you're a writer, you should check it out. If you're a reader, you should check it out. The first issue has writings from C.M. Mayo, Tony Cohan, Halvard Johnson, Wim and Pat Perrin, James Cervantes and others. SOL is meant to be a literary vehicle for both veteran writers like those mentioned above, and new writers like this issue's Margaret Tallis, Jan Harvey, and Carolyn Hernandez. The magazine will come out three times yearly. The on-line version is available without cost by subscribing; a yearly hard-copy anthology will be available at each year's end. We hope you'll enjoy the fine writing in this first issue. http://solliterarymagazine.com -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Salt River Review: http://www.poetserv.org http://www.hamiltonstone.org/catalog.html#temporarymeaning http://www.fieralingue.it/documenti/mr_bondo.pdf http://www.poetserv.org/jvc/home/index.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamescervantes/ _______________________________________________ Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson ================ halvard@gmail.com http://sites.google.com/site/halvardjohnson/Home http://entropyandme.blogspot.com http://imageswithoutwords.blogspot.com http://www.hamiltonstone.org *The Perfection of Mozart's Third Eye and Other Sonnets* http://www.scribd.com/doc/27039868/Halvard-Johnson-THE-PERFECTION-OF-MOZART-S-THIRD-EYE-Other-Sonnets *Tango Bouquet* https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ATDp6rzKkBkhZGZwand2cHdfOWc1Mnh3Zw&hl=en *Theory of Harmony* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall04/theory1.pdf * *Rapsodie espagnole* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/rapsodi.pdf * * * *The Sonnet Project* * https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/hsonnet.pdf * * * * G(e)nome* *http://xpressed.wippiespace.com/fall03/genome.pdf * * * ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 08:40:46 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable GARY &c: thanks for this clarification. like you, i too believe everyone's aright. b= ut, man, if youse catch me participating in hypersketchy practices that i m= ight not see as sketchy -- if you see a blindspot that i somehow missed, th= en call it friendo. i'll prolly be grateful.=A0=20 re contests & funding: saying institutional sources of funding are no less = compromised than those funds pulled in from contest reading fees is like sa= ying: =0Aman, the guy next door sells weed so don't climb on that one over = there for peddling =0Asmack & crack. the logic is stunningly conservative -= - like the smooth way around to =0Asaying: don't make waves coz don't nobod= y care &, =0Abesides, poet worker bees never minded being exploited by cont= ests in =0Athe first place (wot is it Emma Goldman sz, those treated most p= oorly by=0A a nation -- or, in this case, any other institution or practice= -- are it's =0Afiercest defenders? i mean, just because we got rodents in = the living room =0Adon't mean we shld ignore the rats in the kitchen or the= mites in the =0Aflour. (vermin =3D sketchy practices not people.) hugs ... rich ...=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 =0A ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Sat, 7/24/10, Gary Sullivan wrote: From: Gary Sullivan Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 10:51 AM Dear Richard Owens, I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school, I don't remember wha= t age exactly. I had read Lewis Carroll's Hunting of the Snark, which had scared the holy = living crap out of me. I was so terrified, I didn't know what to do with myself. So I sat down and= wrote a poem, trying to write something even more terrifying than Hunting = of the Snark. I am not sure what my motivations were. I'm sure a good child psychologist = would have a theory or two. This has been, more or less, my relationship to writing for the last 40 yea= rs or so. I'm not entirely unsympathetic to what you're saying. A piece I wrote in th= e 90s and published in How To Proceed in the Arts, "First Draft Imaginary W= riter Survey," ends with the questions: "Why do we call it 'submission'? What are we collectively 'accepting'? What= do we write about when we write about writing?" That said, I didn't post a bad poem to poetry.com to prove that such contes= ts are bad, as it appears Catherine, who beat me to the punch, did. Nor to prove that people who know nothing about poetry can't judge it, as i= t appears Jennifer might believe. (I couldn't agree less with that sentimen= t.) I certainly did not do it to show up anyone's "usurious" practices. I do no= t like that word nor how it has been used to target a certain population. I did it because I was pissed off about what had happened to my grandfather= . Less so his having been duped by poetry.com--I had mixed feelings about t= hat, as it had actually given him some mild pleasure while he was on his de= athbed. He was in great pain and dying, after all. As consolation, poetry.c= om made him feel as though he was a "real" poet. (Whatever that is.) He rec= ited his winning poem to me over the phone from memory while he was in the = hospital.=20 I was really pissed off because he had died, coughing up blood in a hospita= l with my grandmother at his side. I don't care whether or not poetry magazines or presses or universities or = individuals hold contests and charge entry fees. I have never entered one, = not one with a fee. But not because I am morally opposed to them. The simpl= e truth is that I am a cheapskate. If I felt more than 75% sure that my man= uscript stood a chance, I might pay the money and send it. I like Noah Eli Gordon. I met him once in Denver. He was sweet and funny an= d talked a lot about poetry. Which he clearly loves. More than I do, certai= nly. I have no interest in poetry beyond that which directly feeds, inspire= s, terrifies, surprises me. That which engages me. That's probably true for= him, too, though I would imagine that he's engaged in far more being writt= en today than I am.=20 I have no opinion one way or the other about any contest that he might be p= romoting or managing or dreaming up or whathaveyou. That's his business.=20 I do know that, when you are spotted doing anything beyond appearing to be = a humble poet dutifully hunched over a desk in the corner crafting your som= e-day important earth-shattering poems, that some poets sometimes like to t= rash talk you, call you a capitalist, usurer, careerist, fraud, whatever. P= oetry is a religion for the people who do this. They are welcome to it. I a= m a third or fourth generation atheist, and I have no interest in magical o= r ritualized thinking about anything, least of all poetry.=20 I admire many of the people who have chimed in against poetry contests. But= no more or less so than I admire Noah. Or anyone, for that matter, who mig= ht submit their work to the contest he announced. After all, my grandfather, who I loved very dearly, was a contest-submitter= . Indeed: a contest winner! And his poem actually made me cry when he recit= ed it to me, which is more than I can say for almost everything currently i= n print, however it might have wound up there. This is not all to say that you are wrong to feel how you do about contests= . That's your business and you are of course as qualified as anyone else to= think about such things. Just that, though I appreciate the call-out, I th= ought I should be open about the situation of having written that poetry.co= m poem and what my own honest feelings about contests are. To me, they are,= like those words "submission" and "acceptance," part of the landscape, and= do define us to some extent. Just like everything else. Gary =A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0=A0=A0 =A0=20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O= N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:54:43 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've often said that the USofA is more religious and less spiritual than any other country. In the part of the country I live (i.e., Bible Beltish) there seems to be a church on every corner. Truly, it's not that bad, but it's a lot less far off the mark than you might imagine. The town I'm from now has a population of around 900 souls. There are AT LEAST 10 churches. In the city where I now live there are literally hundreds of churches for a population barely above 50,000. I've noticed that in small cities where there are a lot of churches, the religious life tends to be cliquish. Additionally, other aspects of life are equally fragmented and closed to outsiders, often aligned along the lines of where people go to church. Since I belong to no church and profess Taoism, or on occasion, Zen Buddhism, I don't fall into any of the "Christian" or "Jewish" or "Muslum" cliques. I most closely resemble the Unitarian or Unity groups, but even still since I don't "belong" I'm always not quite on the inside. I'm outside looking in through stained glass windows. Someone should do a study. I don't have the discipline. ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol dorf" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:26 PM Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" > I'm not sure about this idea of America and spirituality -- we certainly > are > far more religious (i.e. participating in traditional religion) than > people > in other developed countries; though perhaps our religiosity interferes > with > the development of other spiritual perspectives. > > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Adam Katz > wrote: > >> In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant >> Richards, >> when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the >> censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says something >> like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish >> civilization >> by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely polished >> looking glass." Something like that. >> a >> >> >> >> I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= >> >> =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's >> enti= >> re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is >> fascin= >> ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >> Thi= >> nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being >> =0Agut= >> tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; >> our= >> =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >> Th= >> e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; >> =0A= >> realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," >> lik= >> e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't >> work= >> . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the >> d= >> arkness of our current fetishism? >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 23:13:36 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <659443.30269.qm@web53604.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Hi Adam, This essay really got me thinking, but as I wrote a response I realized I had too much to say to want to spill the whole thing onto the list, so I wrote it up as a blog post here: http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/mind-body-spirit-whatever-new-poetics-metaphysical I'd very much like to here what you (or anybody else for that matter) think. Regards, JF Quackenbush jfq@myuw.net On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: > This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The > Decay of > Spirituality in Poetry": > > http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm > > Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. > > Enjoy. > > Adam > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 10:00:06 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: Leslie Scalapino tribute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LESLIE SCALAPINO We honor her passing and celebrate her not= =0A=0ALESLIE SCALAPINO=0A=0AWe honor=C2=A0her passing and celebrate her not= ever passing.=0A=C2=A0 =0A"In making a connection, I'm not proposing that = one's language, sounds, =0Aconceptual shapes alter events outside. Rather, = writing can note that =0Aone's/their sounds and conceptual shapes are event= s=C2=A0-- that are also along with =0Aevents in the outside. A poem may pla= ce these together. As such one's =0Aconceptions alter oneself and being, an= d alter their and one being outside. The =0Aindividual (and any individual = instance) occurs as reading. As: while, =0Aalongside, and being (reading is= an act)."=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -- LS, "Eco-logic in Writing" =0Ain=C2=A0EcoLa= nguage Reader (Brenda Iijima, ed)=0A=C2=A0=0A=E2=80=9C=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=98ho= rizontal=E2=80=99 is a way of seeing everything flowing, existing at differ= ent =0Atimes in parallel simultaneous spaces=E2=80=93not permanent, but not= ever passing =0Aeither.=E2=80=9D -LS in conversation w/Elizabeth Bryant, D= usie #8=0A=0A=C2=A0=0ALeslie Scalapino's writing placed inside/outside=C2= =A0events together with/in =0Aspacetime. Reading Leslie Scalapino is/as an = altering act/event. We honor=C2=A0her =0Apassing and celebrate her not ever= passing. We invite you to write =0Aalongside/simultaneously to/of/on=C2=A0= her work for a special issue of Delirious Hem, =0Ahttp://delirioushem.blogs= pot.com/. =0A=0A=0AWe are especially interested in critical appreciations a= nd analyses (in any =0Astyle or format) of passages from Leslie Scalapino's= work. The Barbara Guest =0AMemory Bank, =0Ahttp://www.asu.edu/pipercwcente= r/how2journal//bg_memorybank/bg_memory.html, =0Aedited by Lauren Shufran fo= r the Summer 2007 issue of How2, might serve as a =0Amodel, as might the Al= ice Notley Constellation =0A(http://www.bbk.ac.uk/cprcevents/alicenotley.ht= ml) edited by Carol Watts. Poems, =0Aimages, personal memorials, and short = essays are also welcome.=0A=0ASince 2006, Delirious Hem has been devoted to= writing by and about experimental =0Awomen poets. Topics have included fea= tures on Kundiman, Lucille Clifton, kari =0Aedwards, the Dusie kollektiv ad= ventskalender, Gurlesque, and the "Numbers =0ATrouble" controversy. Contrib= utors have included Anne Boyer, Bernadette Mayer, =0AAmy King, Alison Roh P= ark, Evie Shockley, Lee Ann Brown, Hoa Nguyen, Gloria =0AAnzaldua, Jennifer= Bartlett, Vanessa Place, Tara Betts, T.A. Noonan, Sharon =0AMesmer, Naomi = Shihab Nye, Sarah Vap, Rachel Levitsky, Mairead Byrne, Marcella =0ADurand, = Myung Mi Kim, and many others. =0A=0A=0ADeadline: Aug 1 =0A=0AVery best,=0A= =0ACara Benson (cbenson67=C2=A0[at] yahoo=C2=A0[dot] com)=0AElizabeth Bryan= t (miss.elizabeth.bryant [at] gmail [dot] com)=0ACathy Wagner=C2=A0(cathwag= ner [at] gmail [dot] com)=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A_____= ___________________=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=C2=A0{homepage}=C2= =A0=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com/sousrature.html=C2=A0{journal}=0A=0A=0A = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:54:09 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <6EACC691-915F-4E90-BCC5-CC97D64CD45D@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jason, Thank you for your very interesting blog entry. I have a few questions relating to it. a) You mention "Wittgenstein's thoroughgoing linguistic mysticism that remained present in all of his works from the Tractatus Logic-Philosophicus onward." Could you elaborate on this more? While I agree with you that the inner logic of Wittgenstein's own thought led him to a wall against which beat (fly in a box), I am not sure how he transcended it. In fact, he himself would have objected to any idea of transcendence? His followers definitely rejected any hint or use of the concept of mysticism while applying his thought on language games to poetics. Isn't "mysticism" a dirty word among poets or poetry thinkers who refer to Wittgenstein most? b) I am glad you point to the importance of Emerson and transcendentalism in American poetry (and 19th century prose; but in your list of poets sustaining the "spiritual" tradition you ignore a crucial figure, Jack Spicer. c) One generally assumes the "irrelevance" of Romanticism, at least English Romanticism (German Romanticism is very different) to our present pursuit. What about the most recent, extremely interesting Millennium Anthology which attempts to re-cast Romanticism in a new light, as a precursor to modernism. Do you buy that? I think the 19th century German Romanticism (a figure like Novalis as much as Blake) has a lot to say to us in a pursuit of the metaphysical /spiritual in poetry. d) "It's there in Robert Grenier's famous written proclamation "I hate speech" as well as in the opposite and too often unanalyzed Deconstructionist skepticism towards writing. As such both in the Language poets and the late post-structuralism, there is already present a fair amount of suspicion of the materiality of language..." This would be true if you really consider Robert Grenier a language poet; to me, the very opposite is true. Grenier's statement is much nearer to the Turkish poet Orhan Veli's statement: "We wish it were possible to dump even language itself." (*Eda Anthology*). As you say, believing in the immateriality of language, he uses visual and constructive/serial means to show it. I do not think most language school poets would admit to any "suspicion of the materiality of language..." though you are trying to get them to your side. e) "To my way of thinking, poetry at its best serves as a sort of javelin to be launched at the veil of language beyond which lies the mystical which can only be indicated or pointed to but not directly talked about. Poetry should always be pushing at the limits of language..." Wait until *The Spiritual Life of Replicants* comes out by Talisman Books this fall. *SL* is part VI of a longer poem *The Structure of Escape:* .A Comic Essay On Poetry. Ciao, Murat On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hi Adam, > This essay really got me thinking, but as I wrote a response I realized I > had too much to say to want to spill the whole thing onto the list, so I > wrote it up as a blog post here: > > http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/mind-body-spirit-whatever-new-poetics-metaphysical > > I'd very much like to here what you (or anybody else for that matter) > think. > > Regards, > JF Quackenbush > jfq@myuw.net > > > > > On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: > > This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The Decay of >> Spirituality in Poetry": >> >> http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm >> >> Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. >> >> Enjoy. >> >> Adam >> >> >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:54:48 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <497456.11363.qm@web33406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Rich, First, the Allen Fisher piece in the new DTC is *amazing*... Is there more out there from this project? & I like your history a few notes back--much appreciated. Just a rejoinder or two--the folks in this thread are not the voice of capital, or not trying to be, many in fact trying *not* to be. I'd also say at this point that universities have fleeced more unsuspecting citizens than poetry contests, hands down--I really don't think there's a case there. & I work for one. I definitely think there's more work to do on *that* front & that contests might just be a symptom. But is it really so simple? Somehow giving your money to lulu.com is more ethical than running a contest? Or paying a web hosting service? (I do these, too.) I like your call to unflinching action (or am seduced by it, when it's action) but if it's just unflinching rhetoric we need, then fuck it. It's a sermon. (I've been seduced by those, too. Am still, in all honesty.) I like your thing about how capital advances by denying absolute statements. Yep, agreed (see the contemporary university). Plenty of models, too, (old & new, including sermons) where capital advances by way of the absolute. But I don't think you're a capitalist--didn't & wouldn't call your absolute statement fascist--we can leave this behavior to the pundits (who get rich off it). I just think we could do some work to pry apart the demand for legitimacy from these other demands, since legitimacy works too well as a kind of coin, even in the absence of cashflow. ...Institutions as pot dealers & contests as rock slingers? Sheesh, analogies might be something to avoid here. I honestly thought it was a bad cut-and-paste! It's funny, but it's just wrong. We're not doing god's work in the university & the funds aren't *just* not clean, much of the product isn't the healthy alternative (it's debt, in part, & it's massive). Or we're doing the bank's work as much as anyone else's. & yet many of us still feel compelled to live/work here--to talk here (here)--would it not be better to address this without indulging in a dressing down of each other (or dressing up of ourselves) according to whose wire rims are the least Palin-esque, whose window the least *Overton*? Again, the thing that prompted me to chime in here was the thought that we could/should be involved in measuring the *relevance* of our colleagues' press work--that the use of contests/reading fees for funding could *possibly* serve as a litmus test in that regard--that we should walk away from those colleagues' press work who participate in these things as *irrelevant*. Too much debris in that path. It's not a conservative position to want to avoid lending a hand in piling it up. More shortly--C On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:40 AM, richard owens wrote: > GARY &c: > > thanks for this clarification. like you, i too believe everyone's aright. > but, man, if youse catch me participating in hypersketchy practices that i > might not see as sketchy -- if you see a blindspot that i somehow missed, > then call it friendo. i'll prolly be grateful. > > re contests & funding: saying institutional sources of funding are no less > compromised than those funds pulled in from contest reading fees is like > saying: > man, the guy next door sells weed so don't climb on that one over there for > peddling > smack & crack. the logic is stunningly conservative -- like the smooth way > around to > saying: don't make waves coz don't nobody care &, > besides, poet worker bees never minded being exploited by contests in > the first place (wot is it Emma Goldman sz, those treated most poorly by > a nation -- or, in this case, any other institution or practice -- are > it's > fiercest defenders? i mean, just because we got rodents in the living room > don't mean we shld ignore the rats in the kitchen or the mites in the > flour. (vermin = sketchy practices not people.) > > hugs ... rich ... > > > > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 > > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog > > --- On Sat, 7/24/10, Gary Sullivan wrote: > > From: Gary Sullivan > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 10:51 AM > > Dear Richard Owens, > > I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school, I don't remember > what age exactly. > > I had read Lewis Carroll's Hunting of the Snark, which had scared the holy > living crap out of me. > > I was so terrified, I didn't know what to do with myself. So I sat down and > wrote a poem, trying to write something even more terrifying than Hunting of > the Snark. > > I am not sure what my motivations were. I'm sure a good child psychologist > would have a theory or two. > > This has been, more or less, my relationship to writing for the last 40 > years or so. > > I'm not entirely unsympathetic to what you're saying. A piece I wrote in > the 90s and published in How To Proceed in the Arts, "First Draft Imaginary > Writer Survey," ends with the questions: > > "Why do we call it 'submission'? What are we collectively 'accepting'? What > do we write about when we write about writing?" > > That said, I didn't post a bad poem to poetry.com to prove that such > contests are bad, as it appears Catherine, who beat me to the punch, did. > > Nor to prove that people who know nothing about poetry can't judge it, as > it appears Jennifer might believe. (I couldn't agree less with that > sentiment.) > > I certainly did not do it to show up anyone's "usurious" practices. I do > not like that word nor how it has been used to target a certain population. > > I did it because I was pissed off about what had happened to my > grandfather. Less so his having been duped by poetry.com--I had mixed > feelings about that, as it had actually given him some mild pleasure while > he was on his deathbed. He was in great pain and dying, after all. As > consolation, poetry.com made him feel as though he was a "real" poet. > (Whatever that is.) He recited his winning poem to me over the phone from > memory while he was in the hospital. > > I was really pissed off because he had died, coughing up blood in a > hospital with my grandmother at his side. > > I don't care whether or not poetry magazines or presses or universities or > individuals hold contests and charge entry fees. I have never entered one, > not one with a fee. But not because I am morally opposed to them. The simple > truth is that I am a cheapskate. If I felt more than 75% sure that my > manuscript stood a chance, I might pay the money and send it. > > I like Noah Eli Gordon. I met him once in Denver. He was sweet and funny > and talked a lot about poetry. Which he clearly loves. More than I do, > certainly. I have no interest in poetry beyond that which directly feeds, > inspires, terrifies, surprises me. That which engages me. That's probably > true for him, too, though I would imagine that he's engaged in far more > being written today than I am. > > I have no opinion one way or the other about any contest that he might be > promoting or managing or dreaming up or whathaveyou. That's his business. > > I do know that, when you are spotted doing anything beyond appearing to be > a humble poet dutifully hunched over a desk in the corner crafting your > some-day important earth-shattering poems, that some poets sometimes like to > trash talk you, call you a capitalist, usurer, careerist, fraud, whatever. > Poetry is a religion for the people who do this. They are welcome to it. I > am a third or fourth generation atheist, and I have no interest in magical > or ritualized thinking about anything, least of all poetry. > > I admire many of the people who have chimed in against poetry contests. But > no more or less so than I admire Noah. Or anyone, for that matter, who might > submit their work to the contest he announced. > > After all, my grandfather, who I loved very dearly, was a > contest-submitter. Indeed: a contest winner! And his poem actually made me > cry when he recited it to me, which is more than I can say for almost > everything currently in print, however it might have wound up there. > > This is not all to say that you are wrong to feel how you do about > contests. That's your business and you are of course as qualified as anyone > else to think about such things. Just that, though I appreciate the > call-out, I thought I should be open about the situation of having written > that poetry.com poem and what my own honest feelings about contests are. > To me, they are, like those words "submission" and "acceptance," part of the > landscape, and do define us to some extent. Just like everything else. > > Gary > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox. > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 11:29:28 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) isn't that inevitable though given the fact that we are both a nation of immigrants as well as a nation where non-conformists played a significant role in how religion and public life intermingled. I genuinely dislike the religious/spiritual dichotomy because it smacks of new age theological nonsense that I have very little patience for, but if the discussion is going to be had in those terms, I think the opposite is true. People are very much involved in their religious lives and religious questions in a very loose and impermanent way in the united states. to my way of thinking, that's more about being spiritual than it is about being religious. but then, it's also strange that for a christian nation like we are, most americans are completely unfamiliar with christian theology of any kind, and as a result much of the theology that gets bandied about is the most ignorant and stupid available. I have no problem with this except that I think it contributes to a strange orientalism that in fact looks a lot more like christian mysticism than it does the vedic or chinese ideas that it is purporting to be. which is not to say that I don't think there's a lot of value in eastern wisdom. i just don't understand the preference for one set of faith traditions over another when fundamentally there doesn't seem to be that much of a difference in the epistemological criteria that are being applied. On Jul 25, 2010, at 8:54 AM, J. Michael Mollohan wrote: > I've often said that the USofA is more religious and less spiritual > than any other country. In the part of the country I live (i.e., > Bible Beltish) there seems to be a church on every corner. Truly, > it's not that bad, but it's a lot less far off the mark than you > might imagine. The town I'm from now has a population of around 900 > souls. There are AT LEAST 10 churches. In the city where I now live > there are literally hundreds of churches for a population barely > above 50,000. I've noticed that in small cities where there are a > lot of churches, the religious life tends to be cliquish. > Additionally, other aspects of life are equally fragmented and > closed to outsiders, often aligned along the lines of where people > go to church. Since I belong to no church and profess Taoism, or on > occasion, Zen Buddhism, I don't fall into any of the "Christian" or > "Jewish" or "Muslum" cliques. I most closely resemble the Unitarian > or Unity groups, but even still since I don't "belong" I'm always > not quite on the inside. I'm outside looking in through stained > glass windows. > > Someone should do a study. I don't have the discipline. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "carol dorf" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" > > >> I'm not sure about this idea of America and spirituality -- we >> certainly are >> far more religious (i.e. participating in traditional religion) >> than people >> in other developed countries; though perhaps our religiosity >> interferes with >> the development of other spiritual perspectives. >> >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Adam Katz >> wrote: >> >>> In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant >>> Richards, >>> when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the >>> censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says >>> something >>> like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish >>> civilization >>> by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely >>> polished >>> looking glass." Something like that. >>> a >>> >>> >>> >>> I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= >>> >>> =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read >>> Marx's >>> enti= >>> re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is >>> fascin= >>> ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas >>> well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>> Thi= >>> nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being >>> =0Agut= >>> tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're >>> accustomed to; >>> our= >>> =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of >>> materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>> Th= >>> e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical >>> dimensions; >>> =0A= >>> realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and >>> "spirit," >>> lik= >>> e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic >>> doesn't >>> work= >>> . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and >>> catches the >>> d= >>> arkness of our current fetishism? >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 20:56:31 +0100 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Roy Exley Subject: Re: "The Decay of Poetry in Spirituality" In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Michael, I suggest you read 'Sufism and Taoism: A Comparative Study of Philosophical Concepts' by Toshihiko Izutsu, University of California Press, Berkeley, 1984, or 'Sufi Literature and the Journey to Immortality' by A.E. I. Falconar, Motilal Banarsidass, Patna, India, 1991. Sufism, the mystical stream of Islam, has much in common with Zen and Taoism and proves, likewise that spirituality is far more important than 'religion', and goes to prove that much contemporary poetry would be instantly melted down beyond its constituent parts by the white hot heat at the heart of spirituality - read Ibn Al'Arabi or Jalaluddin Rumi to begin to get a sense of that heat. There are Christian mystics as well, of course, such as Julian of Norwich, Thomas Traherne, Hildegard of Bingen or the Flemish mystic Jan van Ruysbroek, many riches outside the confines of the 'established' churches. Once you start, you won't stop, discipline or not. Enjoy the research, take care. On 25/7/10 16:54, "J. Michael Mollohan" wrote: > I've often said that the USofA is more religious and less spiritual than any > other country. In the part of the country I live (i.e., Bible Beltish) > there seems to be a church on every corner. Truly, it's not that bad, but > it's a lot less far off the mark than you might imagine. The town I'm from > now has a population of around 900 souls. There are AT LEAST 10 churches. > In the city where I now live there are literally hundreds of churches for a > population barely above 50,000. I've noticed that in small cities where > there are a lot of churches, the religious life tends to be cliquish. > Additionally, other aspects of life are equally fragmented and closed to > outsiders, often aligned along the lines of where people go to church. > Since I belong to no church and profess Taoism, or on occasion, Zen > Buddhism, I don't fall into any of the "Christian" or "Jewish" or "Muslum" > cliques. I most closely resemble the Unitarian or Unity groups, but even > still since I don't "belong" I'm always not quite on the inside. I'm > outside looking in through stained glass windows. > > Someone should do a study. I don't have the discipline. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "carol dorf" > To: > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:26 PM > Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" > > >> I'm not sure about this idea of America and spirituality -- we certainly >> are >> far more religious (i.e. participating in traditional religion) than >> people >> in other developed countries; though perhaps our religiosity interferes >> with >> the development of other spiritual perspectives. >> >> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Adam Katz >> wrote: >> >>> In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant >>> Richards, >>> when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the >>> censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says something >>> like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish >>> civilization >>> by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely polished >>> looking glass." Something like that. >>> a >>> >>> >>> >>> I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= >>> >>> =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's >>> enti= >>> re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is >>> fascin= >>> ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>> Thi= >>> nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being >>> =0Agut= >>> tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; >>> our= >>> =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>> Th= >>> e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; >>> =0A= >>> realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," >>> lik= >>> e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't >>> work= >>> . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches the >>> d= >>> arkness of our current fetishism? >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & > sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 16:22:32 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Small Press Needed for Oct. 26 in Boog NYC Series Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greetings, I'm looking for a small press Boog City=92s never hosted before for our =20= =93d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press=94 series here in nyc = =20 to fill our final open slot this fall for season eight (2010-2011). =20 The event will be held on Tues. Oct. 26, 2010 at 6:00 p.m. Below this note is our invite letter, which spells everything out. Please backchannel any inquiries or suggestions, be they for your own =20= or other presses. Thanks, David ---------- editor@boogcity.com 212-842-BOOG (2664) -------- Hi, David Kirschenbaum here. I=92m the editor and publisher of Boog City, a =20= New York City-based small press and community newspaper now in its =20 19th year. I=92d like to invite you to take part in season eight of our =20= =93d.a. levy lives: celebrating the renegade press=94 series. The series is held at Chelsea=92s ACA Galleries (http://=20 acagalleries.com/), which is owned by the son-in-law and daughter of =20 the poet Simon Perchik. It=92s a nice space, and we fit 100 people, =20 including a nine-piece jazz flash orchestra, in it for Chax Press=92s =20= event, with plenty of room to spare. The gallery provides wine and =20 other beverages, and cheese and crackers and hummus and chips. Once a month I have a different non-NYC press host and feature three =20 or more of their authors to read (we=92ve had as many as 10 for one =20 press and usually have 3-6) for 60 minutes total. We also have a =20 musical act perform two 15-20 minute sets. If the visiting press is =20 able to book the musical act that=92s preferred, so it=92s truly their =20= night, if not I can book one that I think will work well with the =20 night. (Also, once a year we play host to our NYC brethren.) As of this writing, Season 8, our 2010-2011 season will feature: Coconut Books 1913 Press No Press No Tell Books Satellite Telephone Saturnalia Books The series is held on the last Tuesday of each month (except December) =20= at 6:00 p.m. The following date is available: 2010 Tues. Oct. 26 We started the series in August 2003. In our first seven seasons we=92ve = =20 hosted (or are about to host): (locations are at the time of the event) **Non-NYC levy lives presses, 2003 to present a+bend press (Davis, Calif.), Jill Stengel, ed. above/ground press (Ottawa, Canada), Rob McLennan, ed. Aerial Magazine/Edge Books (Washington, D.C.), Rod Smith, ed. Ahadada Books (Burlington, Canada), Jesse Glass and Daniel Sendecki, =20 eds. Ahsahta Press (Boise, Idaho), Janet Holmes, ed. Alice James Books (Farmington, Maine), Peter Waldor, board president Ambit/Furniture Press (Baltimore), Christophe Casamassima, ed. Anchorite Editions (Albany, N.Y.), Chris Rizzo, ed. Antennae (Chicago and Berlin), Jesse Seldess, ed. Atelos Publishing Project (Berkeley, Calif.), Lyn Hejinian and Travis =20= Ortiz, eds. Atticus Finch Chapbooks (Seattle), Michael Cross, ed. Big Game Books (Washington, D.C.), Maureen Thorson, ed. Bird Dog (Seattle), Sarah Mangold, ed. BlazeVOX Books (Kenmore, N.Y.), Geoffrey Gatza, ed. BookThug (Toronto, Canada), Jay Millar, ed. Braincase Press (Northampton, Mass.), Noah Eli Gordon. Brave Men Press (Northampton, Mass.), E. B. Goodale, proprietor/art =20 director and Brian Foley, poetry editor Burning Deck Press (Providence, R.I.), 45th anniversary party, =20 Rosmarie and Keith Waldrop, eds. The Canary (Kemah, Texas), Joshua Edwards, Anthony Robinson, and Nick Twemlow, eds. Cannibal Books (Fayetteville, Ark.), Matt Henriksen, ed. Carve (Cambridge, Mass.), Aaron Tieger, ed. Chax Press (Tucson, Ariz.), 20th anniversary party, Charles Alexander, =20= ed. Combo (Providence, R.I.), Michael Magee, ed. Conundrum (Chicago), Kerri Sonnenberg, ed. Corollary Press (Philadelphia), Juliette Lee, ed. Critical Documents/Plantarchy (Oxford, Ohio), Justin Katko, ed. Cy Press (Cincinnati), Dana Ward, ed. Dos Press (Maxwell, Texas), C.J. Martin and Julia Drescher, eds. Ducky (Philadelphia), Scott Edward Anderson, Dennis DiClaudio, Tom =20 Hartman, and Jason Toogood, eds. Duration Press (San Rafael, Calif.), Jerrold Shiroma, ed. Dusie Press (Switzerland), Susana Gardner, ed. Ecopoetics (Lewiston, Maine), Jonathan Skinner, ed. Effing Press (Austin, Texas), Scott Pierce, ed. Eleven Eleven (San Francisco), Hugh Behm-Steinberg, faculty ed. Fewer & Further Press (Wendell, Mass.), Jess Mynes, ed. Firewheel Editions/Sentence, a magazine (Danbury, Conn.), Brian Clements, ed. Forklift, Ohio (Cincinnati), Matt Hart, editor-in-chief Habenicht Press (San Francisco), David Hadbawnik, ed. House Press (Chicago, Buffalo, New York City), Eric Gelsinger, founder. Instance Press (Boulder, Colo.; New York City; Oakland, Calif.), Stacy Szymaszek, co-ed. Interbirth Books (Dallas), Micah Robbins, ed. Ixnay Press (Philadelphia), Chris and Jenn McCreary, eds. Katalanch=E9 Press (Cambridge, Mass.), Michael Carr and Dorothea Lasky, =20= eds. Kelsey Street Press (Berkeley, Calif.), 30th anniversary party, Patricia Dienstfrey and Rena Rosenwasser, eds. Kenning Editions (Berkeley, Calif.), Patrick Durgin, ed. Lana Turner: A Journal of Poetry and Opinion (Santa Monica, Calif.), =20 Calvin Bedient and David Lau, eds. Meritage Press (San Francisco/St. Helena, Calif.), Eileen Tabios, ed. Minor/American (Durham, N.C.), Elise Ficarra and Kathryn Pringle, eds. Mooncalf Press (Philadelphia), CAConrad, ed. Narrow House Recordings (Gwyn Oak, Md.), Justin Sirois, ed. New American Writing (Mill Valley, Calif.), Maxine Chernoff and Paul Hoover, eds., O Books (Oakland, Calif.), Leslie Scalapino, ed. One Less Magazine (Williamsburg, Mass.), Nikki Widner and David Gardner, eds. Outside Voices (Brooklyn, N.Y.), Jessica Smith, ed. The Owl Press (Woodacre, Calif.), Albert Flynn DeSilver, ed. P-QUEUE (Buffalo, N.Y.), Andre Rippeon, ed. Palm Press (Long Beach, Calif.), Jane Sprague, ed. Paper Kite Press (Kingston, Penn.), Jennifer Hill-Kaucher and Dan Waber, eds. Pavement Saw Press (Columbus, Ohio), David Baratier, ed. Peaches and Bats (Portland, Ore.), Sam Lohmann, founder and editor The Poker (Cambridge, Mass.), Dan Bouchard, ed. Punch Press/damn the caesars (Buffalo, N.Y.), Richard Owens, ed. Rope-A-Dope Press (South Boston), Robert daVies and Mary Walker =20 Graham, publishers/editors Skanky Possum (Austin, Texas), Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith, eds. subpress collective, Greg Fuchs, co-ed. Talisman House Press (Jersey City, N.J.), Edward Foster, ed. Talonbooks (Vancouver, Canada). The Tangent (Walla Walla, Wash.), Kaia Sand and Jules Boykoff, eds. 3rd Bed (Lincoln, R.I.), Vincent Standley, ed. Tougher Disguises (Oakland, Calif.), James Meetze, ed. Tripwire (San Francisco), David Buuck, ed. The Wandering Hermit Review (Buffalo, N.Y.), Steve Potter, ed. Wave Books (Seattle), Joshua Beckman, ed. **NYC levy lives presses, 2003 to present A Rest Press, Ryan Murphy and Patrick Masterson, eds. Beet/Pink Pages, Joe Maynard, ed. Belladonna Books, Erica Kaufman and Rachel Levitsky, eds. Cuneiform Press, Kyle Schlesinger, ed. Cy Gist Press, Mark Lamoureux, ed. Detour Press, Gary Sullivan, ed. Explosive magazine/Spectacular Books, Katy Lederer, ed. Farfalla Press, Gary Parrish, ed. Fence, Charles Valle, co-ed, and Max Winter, poetry ed. Flying Guillotine Press, Sommer Browning and Tony Mancus, eds. Fungo Monographs, Ryan Murphy ed. Futurepoem books, Dan Machlin, ed. Granary Press, Steve Clay, ed. Hanging Loose Press, Bob Hershon, ed. The Hat, Jordan Davis, co-ed. Kitchen Press, editor Justin Marks, ed. Litmus Press/Aufgabe, E. Tracy Grinnell, ed. Lungfull, Brendan Lorber, ed. Mal-o-mar Editions, Ariana Reines, ed. Mermaid Tenement Press, Laura Hinton, ed. Open 24 Hours, John Coletti and Greg Fuchs, ed. Pompom, Allison Cobb, Jennifer Coleman, Ethan Fugate, and Susan Landers, eds. Portable Press at YoYo Labs, Brenda Iijima, ed. Sona Books, Jill Magi, ed. Stay Free! magazine, Carrie McLaren, ed. Tender Buttons, Lee Ann Brown, ed. The North Beach Yacht Club, Ryan Murphy, ed. :::the press gang:::, cristiana baik and sara wintz, eds. 3 Sad Tigers Press, Mariana Ruiz Firmat, ed. Ugly Duckling Presse, Anna Moschovakis and Matvei Yankelevich, collective members. United Artists, Lewis Warsh, ed. Urban Folk zine, Dave Cuomo, ed. X-ing Books, Amy Mees and Mark Wagner, eds. Hope this finds you well. as ever, David -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:42:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHRIS: man, in a lot ways i think our sense of the landscape is in alignment, but = 2 things: 1. the DTC narrative a couple msgs back was aimed at a question r= asied by Tyrone, who asked how DTC is funded and whether or not i (we) cld = provide alternate models for subsidizing print (and digital) projects; 2. i= do think that soliciting reading fees from poets is worse than _Paypalling= _ cash to _Lulu_ (both of which are _wildly_ problematic), but i think this= for a range of reasons i'm not sure can be adequately addressed here.=20 you're right to point out the distance between unflinching action & unflinc= hing rhetoric -- and i think this extends to another difference: the distin= ction between tactical strategy (i.e. the call to refuse contests; and the = gesture of publicly refusing them in real time) and analysis (i.e. the sugg= estion that contests are themselves symptomatic of deeper tendencies that a= re no less corrupt and more firmly entrenched and thus less visible, more p= ermissible, etc). i agree with you (and with Tyrone) the whole way here -- = and i don't think i've suggested anyone involved in this conversation funct= ions as the handmaiden of capital (tho i think we all, in odd ways, are, my= self included).=20 here i need to return to that longer msg i sent out re DTC, because there w= as an essential point i fear was missed: the question of pedagogy. many of = us teach _in_ university systems &, as you say, far more of us have been st= retched across the rack by universities than taken in by poetry contests. b= ut here there's an incredible difference: again, universities, however corr= upt (i'm thinking here of Cary Nelson's and Marc Bousquet's amazing investi= gations into the university industry; and of course the student loan scanda= l that was splayed open by mainstream media a couple years back), are deepl= y entrenched institutions that produce and reproduce forms of exploitation = that are often difficult to name and difficult to resist -- & here the dist= ance between praxis and analysis narrows, but at the same time the extent t= o which we can intervene is also limited (i mean, you can fight city hall, = but can you fight city hall?). this to say, when we talk abt funding sources derived from institutions, we're talking abt, as i sd before, an i= ncredibly complex matrix of relations that reside far beyond the immediate,= the local, the ground. BUT (and this is the clearest point i want to make)= , when a _small_ press (a press _at_ the ground level; a press which _is no= t_ New Directions or City Lights or a major university press) introduces a = contest which solicits reading fees from poets, the gesture is clearly not = a good faith gesture but one that exploits the desire so many poets have si= mply to be read with care -- and it's precisely this which i find so incred= ibly saddening. and since we see these practices _at the ground level_ i do= believe we are responsible for calling them into question (analysis) and, = in this case, refusing them completely (tactic).=20 it's far more difficult to challenge power at an institutional level -- and= to identify how power exerts itself through our own behaviors (viz. i mean= t it when i asked folks to point out my own blindspots) -- but when we iden= tify destructive practices at the ground level we have a responsibility to = name them, refuse them and (again, thanks Tyrone) offer other possibilities= . in this particular case --- the case of contest culture -- we might just = be treating a symptom that discloses a far broader, systemic crisis, but i = think, at the very least, the gesture is essential. as ever, that distance = between institutional power and local community (and i take _this_ list as = an instantiation of the "local") is crucial here.=20 &, Chris, when you say contests are symptomatic of deeper tendencies, as i = say, i agree & it's precisely here that the question of pedagogy is indispe= nsable b/c i think the appeal to contests with reading fees as a funding mo= del emerges out of a very particular view of what poetry is, what a "good" = poem is and what a successful poet is -- and it's precisely this view of po= etry, and cultural production in general, that has to be troubled, splayed = open and radically reimagined. as Pierre pointed out a couple days back, wh= en a poet asks "how do we get a foot in the door?", this question rests on = a range of very troubling assumptions about what culture is, how it comes t= o us, how we respond to it and how we participate in its production.=A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 hugs ... rich ...=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Sun, 7/25/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Sunday, July 25, 2010, 2:54 PM Dear Rich, First, the Allen Fisher piece in the new DTC is *amazing*... Is there more out there from this project? & I like your history a few notes back--much appreciated. Just a rejoinder or two--the folks in this thread are not the voice of capital, or not trying to be, many in fact trying *not* to be. I'd also say at this point that universities have fleeced more unsuspecting citizens tha= n poetry contests, hands down--I really don't think there's a case there. & I work for one. I definitely think there's more work to do on *that* front & that contests might just be a symptom. But is it really so simple? Somehow giving your money to lulu.com is more ethical than running a contest? Or paying a web hosting service? (I do these, too.) I like your call to unflinching action (or am seduced by it, when it's action) but if it's just unflinching rhetoric we need, then fuck it. It's a sermon. (I've been seduced by those, too. Am still, in all honesty.) I like your thing about how capital advances by denying absolute statements= . Yep, agreed (see the contemporary university). Plenty of models, too, (old = & new, including sermons) where capital advances by way of the absolute. But = I don't think you're a capitalist--didn't & wouldn't call your absolute statement fascist--we can leave this behavior to the pundits (who get rich off it). I just think we could do some work to pry apart the demand for legitimacy from these other demands, since legitimacy works too well as a kind of coin, even in the absence of cashflow. ...Institutions as pot dealers & contests as rock slingers? Sheesh, analogies might be something to avoid here. I honestly thought it was a bad cut-and-paste! It's funny, but it's just wrong. We're not doing god's work in the university & the funds aren't *just* not clean, much of the product isn't the healthy alternative (it's debt, in part, & it's massive). Or we'r= e doing the bank's work as much as anyone else's. & yet many of us still feel compelled to live/work here--to talk here (here)--would it not be better to address this without indulging in a dressing down of each other (or dressin= g up of ourselves) according to whose wire rims are the least Palin-esque, whose window the least *Overton*? Again, the thing that prompted me to chime in here was the thought that we could/should be involved in measuring the *relevance* of our colleagues' press work--that the use of contests/reading fees for funding could *possibly* serve as a litmus test in that regard--that we should walk away from those colleagues' press work who participate in these things as *irrelevant*. Too much debris in that path. It's not a conservative positio= n to want to avoid lending a hand in piling it up. More shortly--C On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:40 AM, richard owens w= rote: > GARY &c: > > thanks for this clarification. like you, i too believe everyone's aright. > but, man, if youse catch me participating in hypersketchy practices that = i > might not see as sketchy -- if you see a blindspot that i somehow missed, > then call it friendo. i'll prolly be grateful. > > re contests & funding: saying institutional sources of funding are no les= s > compromised than those funds pulled in from contest reading fees is like > saying: > man, the guy next door sells weed so don't climb on that one over there f= or > peddling > smack & crack. the logic is stunningly conservative -- like the smooth wa= y > around to > saying: don't make waves coz don't nobody care &, > besides, poet worker bees never minded being exploited by contests in > the first place (wot is it Emma Goldman sz, those treated most poorly by >=A0 a nation -- or, in this case, any other institution or practice -- are > it's > fiercest defenders? i mean, just because we got rodents in the living roo= m > don't mean we shld ignore the rats in the kitchen or the mites in the > flour. (vermin =3D sketchy practices not people.) > > hugs ... rich ... > > > > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 > > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog > > --- On Sat, 7/24/10, Gary Sullivan wrote: > > From: Gary Sullivan > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 10:51 AM > > Dear Richard Owens, > > I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school, I don't remember > what age exactly. > > I had read Lewis Carroll's Hunting of the Snark, which had scared the hol= y > living crap out of me. > > I was so terrified, I didn't know what to do with myself. So I sat down a= nd > wrote a poem, trying to write something even more terrifying than Hunting= of > the Snark. > > I am not sure what my motivations were. I'm sure a good child psychologis= t > would have a theory or two. > > This has been, more or less, my relationship to writing for the last 40 > years or so. > > I'm not entirely unsympathetic to what you're saying. A piece I wrote in > the 90s and published in How To Proceed in the Arts, "First Draft Imagina= ry > Writer Survey," ends with the questions: > > "Why do we call it 'submission'? What are we collectively 'accepting'? Wh= at > do we write about when we write about writing?" > > That said, I didn't post a bad poem to poetry.com to prove that such > contests are bad, as it appears Catherine, who beat me to the punch, did. > > Nor to prove that people who know nothing about poetry can't judge it, as > it appears Jennifer might believe. (I couldn't agree less with that > sentiment.) > > I certainly did not do it to show up anyone's "usurious" practices. I do > not like that word nor how it has been used to target a certain populatio= n. > > I did it because I was pissed off about what had happened to my > grandfather. Less so his having been duped by poetry.com--I had mixed > feelings about that, as it had actually given him some mild pleasure whil= e > he was on his deathbed. He was in great pain and dying, after all. As > consolation, poetry.com made him feel as though he was a "real" poet. > (Whatever that is.) He recited his winning poem to me over the phone from > memory while he was in the hospital. > > I was really pissed off because he had died, coughing up blood in a > hospital with my grandmother at his side. > > I don't care whether or not poetry magazines or presses or universities o= r > individuals hold contests and charge entry fees. I have never entered one= , > not one with a fee. But not because I am morally opposed to them. The sim= ple > truth is that I am a cheapskate. If I felt more than 75% sure that my > manuscript stood a chance, I might pay the money and send it. > > I like Noah Eli Gordon. I met him once in Denver. He was sweet and funny > and talked a lot about poetry. Which he clearly loves. More than I do, > certainly. I have no interest in poetry beyond that which directly feeds, > inspires, terrifies, surprises me. That which engages me. That's probably > true for him, too, though I would imagine that he's engaged in far more > being written today than I am. > > I have no opinion one way or the other about any contest that he might be > promoting or managing or dreaming up or whathaveyou. That's his business. > > I do know that, when you are spotted doing anything beyond appearing to b= e > a humble poet dutifully hunched over a desk in the corner crafting your > some-day important earth-shattering poems, that some poets sometimes like= to > trash talk you, call you a capitalist, usurer, careerist, fraud, whatever= . > Poetry is a religion for the people who do this. They are welcome to it. = I > am a third or fourth generation atheist, and I have no interest in magica= l > or ritualized thinking about anything, least of all poetry. > > I admire many of the people who have chimed in against poetry contests. B= ut > no more or less so than I admire Noah. Or anyone, for that matter, who mi= ght > submit their work to the contest he announced. > > After all, my grandfather, who I loved very dearly, was a > contest-submitter. Indeed: a contest winner! And his poem actually made m= e > cry when he recited it to me, which is more than I can say for almost > everything currently in print, however it might have wound up there. > > This is not all to say that you are wrong to feel how you do about > contests. That's your business and you are of course as qualified as anyo= ne > else to think about such things. Just that, though I appreciate the > call-out, I thought I should be open about the situation of having writte= n > that poetry.com poem and what my own honest feelings about contests are. > To me, they are, like those words "submission" and "acceptance," part of = the > landscape, and do define us to some extent. Just like everything else. > > Gary > > > _________________________________________________________________ > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox= . > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAGL= :ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:42:19 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Charlie Rossiter Subject: Merwin Interview on poetrypoetry.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Poets & Poetry Lovers, We have just posted an interview with W.S. Merwin on www.poetrypoetry.com. The interview took place at the Dodge Festival some years ago. His laureate appointment prompted me to rummage through my poetic archives and find the tape. In the interview, Merwin talks about poetry coming from the "right place," comments on his teacher Richard Blackburn, tells a bit about his early influence by Milton, and offers advice for those who would better appreciate poetry. He is such a good interviewee I barely needed to talk at all, asking 5-6 questions in entire the 9-minute interview. Please pass this on to interested others and if you are so inclined, browse the other features on poetrypoetry. We've been posting audio poetry since 2000 (don't believe the counter on the homepage, a technical glitch recently reset it.) Yours in Peace & Poetry, Charlie Rossiter -- there's no point in poetry if you withhold the truth once you've come by it Alden Nowlan ------- www.charlierossiter.com my personal website www.poetrypoetry.com where you hear poems read by poets who wrote them ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:13:22 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Hi Murat, Excellent feedback, thanks! On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never denied that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that there can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also says that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless and he would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because the attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I think are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't write (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him repudiating that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal value) and the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no value -- and if there were, it would be of no value. If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this would again be accidental. It must lie outside the world. 6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions. Propositions cannot express anything higher. 6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed in language. In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to speak wax or wane as a whole. The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy. 6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is. 6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its contemplation as a limited whole. The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number of casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort of nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a statement about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable of having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful about it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, spirituality, faith, and religion. B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read the anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. I tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at least in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my opinion that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the first postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension dates to the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less well versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much resonating with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, but I think i can see what you're getting at there. D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was maybe being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a little too important to me personally to allow for the outright materialism that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't much care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious of the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, I feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going on, at least as it strikes me. E. I am very much looking forward to it! Regards, Jason On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, > > Thank you for your very interesting blog entry. I have a few questions > relating to it. > > a) You mention "Wittgenstein's thoroughgoing linguistic mysticism that > remained present in all of his works from the Tractatus Logic- > Philosophicus > onward." Could you elaborate on this more? While I agree with you > that the > inner logic of Wittgenstein's own thought led him to a wall against > which > beat (fly in a box), I am not sure how he transcended it. In fact, he > himself would have objected to any idea of transcendence? His > followers > definitely rejected any hint or use of the concept of mysticism while > applying his thought on language games to poetics. Isn't "mysticism" > a dirty > word among poets or poetry thinkers who refer to Wittgenstein most? > > b) I am glad you point to the importance of Emerson and > transcendentalism in > American poetry (and 19th century prose; but in your list of poets > sustaining the "spiritual" tradition you ignore a crucial figure, Jack > Spicer. > > c) One generally assumes the "irrelevance" of Romanticism, at least > English > Romanticism (German Romanticism is very different) to our present > pursuit. > What about the most recent, extremely interesting Millennium > Anthology which > attempts to re-cast Romanticism in a new light, as a precursor to > modernism. > Do you buy that? I think the 19th century German Romanticism (a > figure like > Novalis as much as Blake) has a lot to say to us in a pursuit of the > metaphysical /spiritual in poetry. > > d) "It's there in Robert Grenier's famous written proclamation "I hate > speech" as well as in the opposite and too often unanalyzed > Deconstructionist skepticism towards writing. As such both in the > Language > poets and the late post-structuralism, there is already present a fair > amount of suspicion of the materiality of language..." > > This would be true if you really consider Robert Grenier a language > poet; to > me, the very opposite is true. Grenier's statement is much nearer to > the > Turkish poet Orhan Veli's statement: "We wish it were possible to > dump even > language itself." (*Eda Anthology*). As you say, believing in the > immateriality of language, he uses visual and constructive/serial > means to > show it. I do not think most language school poets would admit to any > "suspicion of the materiality of language..." though you are trying > to get > them to your side. > > e) "To my way of thinking, poetry at its best serves as a sort of > javelin to > be launched at the veil of language beyond which lies the mystical > which can > only be indicated or pointed to but not directly talked about. > Poetry should > always be pushing at the limits of language..." > > Wait until *The Spiritual Life of Replicants* comes out by Talisman > Books > this fall. *SL* is part VI of a longer poem *The Structure of > Escape:* .A > Comic Essay On Poetry. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> Hi Adam, >> This essay really got me thinking, but as I wrote a response I >> realized I >> had too much to say to want to spill the whole thing onto the list, >> so I >> wrote it up as a blog post here: >> >> http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/mind-body-spirit-whatever-new-poetics-metaphysical >> >> I'd very much like to here what you (or anybody else for that matter) >> think. >> >> Regards, >> JF Quackenbush >> jfq@myuw.net >> >> >> >> >> On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: >> >> This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The >> Decay of >>> Spirituality in Poetry": >>> >>> http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm >>> >>> Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. >>> >>> Enjoy. >>> >>> Adam >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:17:37 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: Bill Knott books ++ FRIDAY -- Amy De'Ath, Octavio R. Gonzalez, Gordon Massman, Tracy O Connor, Joanna Ruocco, Kate Schapira & Dustin Williamson! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable STAIN OF POETRY A READING SERIES JULY 30, FRIDAY ~ AMY DEâ€= .=0A =0ASTAIN OF POETRY=0AA READING SERIES=0AJULY 30, FRIDAY ~ AMY DE=E2=80= =99ATH, OCTAVIO R. GONZALEZ, GORDON MASSMAN, TRACY O =0ACONNOR, JOANNA RUOC= CO, KATE SCHAPIRA & DUSTIN WILLIAMSON!=0A=0A =0ALISTENERS WILL RECEIVE ONE-= OF-A-KIND HAND-PAINTED, HAND-MADE & SIGNED COPIES OF =0ASYLLABIC VERSE BY B= ILL KNOTT.=0AFIRST TO COME, FIRST TO RECEIVE ONE OF THESE RARE BOOKS!=0A = =0A@ GOODBYE BLUE MONDAY =E2=80=93 BUSHWICK, BROOKLYN=0A=0AWITH=0A=0AAMY DE= =E2=80=99ATH studied American Literature with Creative Writing at the Unive= rsity =0Aof East Anglia and at Temple University in Philadelphia. Her poems= have appeared =0Ain ONEDIT, QUID and others. Crater Press recently publish= ed her broadside, =0AANDROMEDA, THE WORLD WORKS FOR ME. She has two short b= ooks forthcoming in 2010. =0AHer first collection will be published by Salt= , and a chapbook will be coming =0Aout from Oystercatcher later in the year= . Her poetry blog can be found =0AatWWW.AMYDEATH.WORDPRESS.COM. =E2=80=9CAm= y De=E2=80=99Ath is the new fire for mortals. She =0Apeoples space. She pla= ys tricks with the gods and with her readers. This is =0Apersonal, and it= =E2=80=99s hot shit.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Marcus Slease=0A~=0A=0A=0AOCTAVIO G= ONZALEZ is a Dominican-American poet from Santo Domingo and Brooklyn, =0AN.= Y. He teaches literature and composition at Rutgers University, where he i= s a =0Adoctoral student in English. Some of his work appears online and in = print, in =0APUERTO DEL SOL, OCHO, MIPOESIAS, and other journals. His first= chapbook, THE =0ABOOK OF OURS, has just been published by Momotombo Press.= =0A~=0A=0A=0AAttempting with the scientist=E2=80=99s objectivity, GORDON MA= SSMAN has numbered over =0Atwenty-one hundred slices of his psyche in order= to discover his most basic =0Aurges, motives, fears, addictions, and desir= es. He aspires to be the literary =0Ahuman genome project, and in doing so,= unearth as fearlessly as possible aspects =0Anot only of his own, but thos= e of the universal male psychology. Tarpaulin Sky =0APress recently publish= ed his collection, THE ESSENTIAL NUMBERS. This summer =0ASpork Press will r= elease a chapbook of this work.=0A~=0A=0A=0ATRACI O CONNOR=E2=80=99s first = collection of fiction, RECIPES FOR ENDANGERED SPECIES, =0Awas recently rele= ased by Tarpaulin Sky Press, and she has published fictions and =0Apoems in= various journals and magazines, including MID-AMERICAN REVIEW, =0AGARGOYLE= , DIAGRAM, LIT MAGAZINE, THE PINCH, H_NGM_N, FOURTEEN HILLS, MARGIE, =0AGRE= EN MOUNTAINS REVIEW, SIDEBROW, BARROWSTREET, CV2 and POET LORE. Traci=E2=80= =99s =0Acurrently at work on a collection of flash-memoirs about her Mormon= childhood =0Acalled SHELL-SHAPED PIECES OF BONE and a second collection of= short stories. She =0Ateaches writing and literature at Guilford College i= n Greensboro, North Carolina =0Awhere she lives with her spouse=E2=80=94the= writer, Jackson Connor=E2=80=94their four children, =0Aone labradoodle, an= d a =E2=80=98cat.=E2=80=99=0A~=0A=0A=0AJOANNA RUOCCO lives in Denver, Color= ado. She is the author of a novel,THE =0AMOTHERING COVEN, published by Elli= psis Press, and a short story collection, =0AMAN=E2=80=99S COMPANIONS, publ= ished by Tarpaulin Sky. She co-edits BIRKENSNAKE, a =0Afiction journal, wit= h Brian Conn.=0A~=0A=0A=0AKATE SCHAPIRA is the author of TOWN (Factory Scho= ol, Heretical Texts, 2010) and =0Aseveral chapbooks from Flying Guillotine = Press, Cy Gist Press, horse less press, =0ARope-A-Dope Press and Portable P= ress at Yo-Yo Labs. She runs the Publicly =0AComplex reading series in Prov= idence, RI.=0A~=0A=0A=0ADUSTIN WILLIAMSON is the author of OBSTRUCTED VIEW = (Salacious Banter), EXHAUSTED =0AGRUNTS (Cannibal), and GORILLA DUST (Open = 24 Hours). He publishes Rust Buckle =0ABooks, and is the current Monday nig= ht coordinator at the Poetry Project in NYC.=0A=0AAT=0A=0AGOODBYE BLUE MOND= AY=0A1087 BROADWAY=0A(CORNER OF DODWORTH ST)=0ABROOKLYN, NY 11221-3013 (718= ) 453-6343=0AJ M Z TRAINS TO MYRTLE AVE=0AOR J TRAIN TO KOSCIUSKO ST=0A~=0A= =0AHosted by Amy King and Ana Bo=C5=BEi=C4=8Devi=C4=87=0A=0Awww.stainofpoet= ry.com=0A=0A=0A********=0APoetry, Publishing, Women & the Internet =0A+ =0A= http://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/your-own-revolution-poetry-publishi= ng-the-internet/ =0A=0A=0APoets for Living Waters=0A+ http://poetsgulfcoast= .wordpress.com/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 23:48:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: This Weekend/A Boston Poet Tea Party Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable please forward ------------------- This Weekend =E2=80=A6 A Boston Poet Tea Party A Summer Poetry Marathon featuring 108 local and visiting poets reading for 8 minutes apiece Fri. 7/30, 7:00 p.m.-10:00 p.m. Pierre Menard Gallery 10 Arrow St., Harvard Square, Cambridge Harvard Square stop on the Red Line Sat. 7/31, 12 noon-10:00 p.m. Sun. 8/1, 12 noon-5:00 p.m. OUTPOST 186 186 1/2 Hampshire St., Inman Square, Cambridge Central Square stop on the Red Line Organized by Jim Behrle, Michael Carr, David Kirschenbaum, John Mulrooney, and Aaron Tieger For more info contact: bostonpoetryfestival2010@gmail.com ------------------- Friday 7/30 7:00 Joe Torra 7:08 Jack Kimball 7:16 Minal Shekhawat 7:24 January O'Neil 7:32 Geoffrey Olsen 7:40 Kari Adelaide 7:48 Elisa Gabbert break 8:04 Thom Donovan 8:12 Joan Houlihan 8:20 John Cotter 8:28 Dorothea Lasky 8:36 Tanya Larkin 8:44 Jibade-Khalil Huffman 8:52 David Rivard break 9:08 Greg Fuchs 9:16 Pierre Joris 9:24 Buck Downs 9:32 Eileen Myles 9:40 Martha Oatis 9:48 Lori Lubeski 9:56 Nicole Peyrafitte ------------------- Saturday 7/31 12:00 Lauren Russell 12:08 Suzanne Mercury 12:16 Bridget Madden 12:24 Seth Abramson 12:32 Steve Roberts 12:40 Cate Peebles break 12:56 Nathaniel Siegel 1:04 Nathaniel Otting 1:12 Dana Ward 1:20 Doug Holder 1:28 Mark Lamoureux 1:36 Debrah Morkun break 1:52 Chris Rizzo 2:00 Ellen Kennedy 2:08 Kate Colby 2:16 Douglas Manson 2:24 Valerie Duff 2:32 Kimberly Ann Southwick break 2:48 Mike County 2:56 Andrew Hughes 3:04 Amanda Cook 3:12 Lauren Ireland 3:20 Joel Sloman 3:28 James Cook break 3:44 Filip Marinovich 3:56 Alan Semerdijian 4:04 Urayoan Noel 4:12 Jim Dunn 4:28 Kythe Heller 4:36 Lynn Behrendt break 4:52 Derek Fenner 5:00 Joe Elliot 5:08 Boni Joi 5:16 Amanda Nadelberg 5:24 Brenda Iijima 5:32 Chad Parenteau break 7:00 Jess Mynes 7:08 Elizabeth Willis 7:16 Mitch Highfill 7:24 Peter Gizzi 7:32 Jacqueline Waters 7:40 Fanny Howe 7:48 TBD break 8:04 Chris Martin 8:12 Jon Woodward 8:20 Rebecca Wolff 8:28 Brendan Lorber 8:36 Gillian McCain 8:44 Oni Buchanan 8:52 Geof Huth break 9:08 Dustin Williamson 9:16 Macgregor Card 9:24 Elizabeth Marie Young 9:32 Kish Song Bear 9:40 Aaron Kiely 9:48 Carlos Soto Roman 9:56 Douglas N. Rothschild ------------------- Sunday 8/1 12:08 N. F. Huth 12:16 Jessica Bozek 12:24 Fred Marchant 12:32 Angela Veronica Wong 12:40 Ruth Lepson break 12:56 John Mulrooney 1:04 David Kirschenbaum 1:12 John Coletti 1:20 Gerrit Lansing 1:28 Aaron Tieger 1:36 Anna Moschovakis break 1:52 Michael Carr 2:00 Ben Mazer 2:08 Ottessa Moshfegh 2:16 Ana Bo=C5=BEi=C4=8Devi=C4=87 2:24 Chuck Stebelton 2:32 Mairead Byrne break 2:48 Kate Schapira 2:56 Amy King 3:04 Amy De'Ath 3:12 Janaka Stucky 3:20 Gillian Devereux 3:26 Cheryl Clark Vermeulen break 3:42 Mike Roberts 3:50 Sarah Heller 3:58 Andi Pinto 4:06 Chris Jackson 4:14 Dena Barisano 4:20 Molly Saccardo break 4:36 Gilmore Tamny 4:44 Jim Behrle As the festival nears, any potential schedule updates will be =20 available at http://www.bostonpoetteaparty.blogspot.com/ -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: = http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=3D3431698= 80 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 04:20:02 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <6EACC691-915F-4E90-BCC5-CC97D64CD45D@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Some 2009 writing I did on 'spiritual materialism': http://netpoetic.com/2009/07/spiritual-materialism http://netpoetic.com/2009/07/re-spiritual-materialism Am enjoying the posts on 'the decay of spirituality in poetry'. And doing a lot of swimming, running, and biking. Perfect weather over here for a while, great zephyr song. ja http://vispo.com July 26/2010 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 07:31:15 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jonathan Penton Subject: Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit We now have a final list of contributors for our forthcoming anthology, /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/! The anthology will include 50 Cent Haircut, Shane Allison, David Amram, Jim Andrews, Grace Andreacchi, Ron Androla, Michael Aro, David Aronson, Cassandra L. Atherton, Joe Balaz, Hugh Behm-Steinberg, Orna Ben Shoshan, Luis Cuauhtemoc Berriozabal, Bill Berry, Kristy Bowen, Tom Bradley, Alan Britt, Ray Brown, John Bryan, Luke Buckham, Ric Carfagna, Wendy Taylor Carlisle, Justin Carmickle, Bob Castle, Jim Chaffee, Cecelia Chapman, Robert Ciesla, The Clockwork Dolls, K. R. Copeland, Ginnetta Correlli, Leslie Council, D. B. Cox, Guy Cranswick, Will Crawford, Jeff Crouch, Michael Cuglietta, Steve Dalachinsky, Leon De la Rósa, Martha L. Deed, Richard Denner, Mary Ellen Derwis, DEVI, The Dirty Skirts, Doug Draime, Arthur Durkee, Paul Dutton, Amanda Earl, R. C. Edrington, Deidre Elizabeth, Brad M. Elliot, Leah Erickson, Michael Estabrook, Kane X. Faucher, Jack Feldstein, Cecilia Ferreira, The Folding Chairs, Michael C. Ford, Skip Fox, Vernon Frazer, Gloria Frym, Kirpal Gordon, John Grey, Danielle Grilli, gui.ra.ga7, Ira Joel Haber, Michael Haeflinger, Micah Harold, Michael Harold, Stephen Harrison, Sydney Harth, Jonathan Hayes, Kyle Hemmings, Leigh Herrick, Lily Hoang, Martin Hoeldtke, Justin Hyde, Liesl Jobson, Tyke Johnson, Joja, Aryan Kaganof, Adeena Karasick, John Keaton, Gene Keller, Tsipi Keller, Karl Kempton, Olivia Kennett, Adrien Kenyon, Amy King, Debbie Kirk, Amy Kohut, Kurtice Kucheman, Donna Kuhn, John Kuligowski, David LaBounty, Delphine LeCompte, Linda A. Lavid, Jim Leftwich, Louise Landes Levi, Robert Levin, Anthony Liccione, Lyn Lifshin, Richard Lighthouse, James Lineberger, Rick Lupert, MC Frontalot, Sean McCluskey, David McLean, Anne McMillen, Dennis Mahagin, Anna Maly, Diana Magallón, Peter Magliocco, Michael Medaglia, Tim Millas, The Molotov, Nicholas R. Morgan, David Nakabayashi, NeBa, Jason Neese, J. D. Nelson, Paul Nelson, Millie Niss, Carol Novack, Dean Omori, Joe Pachinko, John-Ivan Palmer, Claudio Parentela, Brent M. Parker, Jonathan Penton, Utah Phillips, Randel Plowman, Elisha Porat, Kerryn Potgieter, Bob Powell, Brent Powers, Don Pyle, Misti Rainwater-Lites, Dan Raphael, Ray Ramos, Gabriel Ricard, Charles P. Ries, Luis Rivas, Phil Rockstroh, Randall K. Rogers, T. S. Ross, Brenton Rossow, David Rovics, Miriam Sagan, Salvage My Dream, Iftekhar Sayeed, Eric Schwartz, Peter Schwartz, Rion Amilcar Scott, Matt Sesow, Paul E. Sexton III, Jen Shugert, Sidewalk Beggar, Sigerson, Eric Smiarowski, Willie Smith, Janet Snell, Donna Snyder, Felino A. Soriano, Sounds Like Fall, Jeffrey Spahr-Summers, George Sparling, Constance Stadler, Belinda Subraman, Dee Sunshine, John Sweet, Violetta Tarpinian, Gay Tastee, Chuck Taylor, Randy Thurman, Ryan Undeen, Gabriela Anyana Valdepeña, Sam Vaknin, C. Derick Varn, Joel Van Noord, Monina Verano, Derek Von Essen, Dan Waber, George Wallace, Alex Walsh, Alek Wasilweski, Lawrence Welsh, Derek White, Earnst Williamson III, A. D. Winans, Jasiri X, and Thea Zimmer! Thanks to the many, many people who sent in submissions, and to the many excellent artists who suffered rejection this time around. Space in a physical project is inherently limited, and we made some extraordinary painful cuts this month. If you sent in work, and we failed to notify you and thank you, please accept our apologies. If we've /accepted/ your work and you aren't on the above list, please contact us immediately. The anthology will be about 400 pages of text and visual art and have both a CD and DVD enclosed. It was edited by Gabriel Ricard, Donna Snyder, Belinda Subraman, C. Derick Varn and myself. It's available for pre-order from http://shop.makeitnewmedia.com/ , where you'll also find other Unlikely Books and new titles from Virgogray Press. /Unlikely Stories of the Third Kind/ will be released at Burning Man, in the first week of September, so if you're going there, come find us! And hey! Going to be in or around El Paso this weekend? This Friday, July 30th, we'll be having: An Unlikely B.Y.O.C. Happening featuring videos by Leon De la Rosa discussion from Dr. Deb Hoag poetry by Lawrence Welsh, Donna Snyder, Ray Ramos, and Jen Shugert VideoRemixing by Rene Lopez and Tipo with DJ Kidmonks spinning also: WINE. Bring Your Own Cheeze July 30th, 8pm Glasbox Art Gallery 1500 Texas at Cotton (entrance on Langtry), El Paso, Texas $5 suggested donation If you've never before seen poetry performed over live video mixing, it is truly something to check out. We're expecting an exceptional evening, so drop by if you can! -- Jonathan Penton http://www.unlikelystories.org/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 00:29:17 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <0B686BC9-421C-456E-B17E-E14A2F8CE1D5@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Jason, " On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never denied that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that there can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also says that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless and he would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because the attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I think are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't write (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him repudiating that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal value) and the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he pays lip service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends to it and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk "meaningfully" about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks for the key under the light because that's where the light is, not necessarily where the key is? Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the sense of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is and happens as it does happen." Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the English syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the syntax for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are true) or don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as the paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process of emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a "subject-predicate" construction is only a part. "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this would again be accidental. It must lie outside the world." Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. "Propositions cannot express anything higher." Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure having any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, subject-predicate structure. This is a priori assumption on W's part having to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the state state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere abstraction from it. "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed in language." It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of translation), you are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on disintegration, fragmentation, etc. "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to speak wax or wane as a whole. The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics (unless I misunderstand him). "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its contemplation as a limited whole. The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin is all for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He points us to an outline of "a structure of escape." "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number of casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort of nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a statement about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable of having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful about it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, spirituality, faith, and religion." That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my opinion rebuts him. "B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does" Yes. "C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read the anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. I tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at least in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my opinion that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the first postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension dates to the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less well versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much resonating with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, but I think i can see what you're getting at there." I think you will find the Eda anthology very interesting. A hundred twenty page selection from it (with a few additional essays) has appeared in a special section in *Jacket* (http://jacketmagazine.com/34/eda-essays.sh) I agree with you completely about *Moby Dick*. "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was maybe being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a little too important to me personally to allow for the outright materialism that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't much care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious of the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, I feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going on, at least as it strikes me." I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but I think one should call a spade a spade. E. I am very much looking forward to it! I'll announce it the moment it is out. Thank you again for your very thoughtful remarks. Ciao, Murat On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hi Murat, > Excellent feedback, thanks! > > On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never denied > that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a > meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to > impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that there > can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also says > that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless and he > would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because the > attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I think > are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the > Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't write > (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. > Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him repudiating > that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal value) and > the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: > > "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no > value -- and if there were, it would be of no value. > > If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening > and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this > would again be accidental. > > It must lie outside the world. > > 6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions. > > Propositions cannot express anything higher. > > 6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed in > language. > > In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to speak > wax or wane as a whole. > > The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy. > > 6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is. > > 6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its contemplation > as a limited whole. > > The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." > > Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to > Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number of > casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of > the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort of > nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a statement > about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable of > having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful about > it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of > human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, spirituality, > faith, and religion. > > B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does > > C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read the > anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. I > tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at least > in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my opinion > that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the first > postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension dates to > the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less well > versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much resonating > with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, but I > think i can see what you're getting at there. > > D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was maybe > being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a > hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a > little too important to me personally to allow for the outright materialism > that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some > sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't much > care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious of > the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of > irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of > writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, I > feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going on, > at least as it strikes me. > > E. I am very much looking forward to it! > > > > Regards, > Jason > > > > > > On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > Jason, >> >> Thank you for your very interesting blog entry. I have a few questions >> relating to it. >> >> a) You mention "Wittgenstein's thoroughgoing linguistic mysticism that >> remained present in all of his works from the Tractatus >> Logic-Philosophicus >> onward." Could you elaborate on this more? While I agree with you that the >> inner logic of Wittgenstein's own thought led him to a wall against which >> beat (fly in a box), I am not sure how he transcended it. In fact, he >> himself would have objected to any idea of transcendence? His followers >> definitely rejected any hint or use of the concept of mysticism while >> applying his thought on language games to poetics. Isn't "mysticism" a >> dirty >> word among poets or poetry thinkers who refer to Wittgenstein most? >> >> b) I am glad you point to the importance of Emerson and transcendentalism >> in >> American poetry (and 19th century prose; but in your list of poets >> sustaining the "spiritual" tradition you ignore a crucial figure, Jack >> Spicer. >> >> c) One generally assumes the "irrelevance" of Romanticism, at least >> English >> Romanticism (German Romanticism is very different) to our present pursuit. >> What about the most recent, extremely interesting Millennium Anthology >> which >> attempts to re-cast Romanticism in a new light, as a precursor to >> modernism. >> Do you buy that? I think the 19th century German Romanticism (a figure >> like >> Novalis as much as Blake) has a lot to say to us in a pursuit of the >> metaphysical /spiritual in poetry. >> >> d) "It's there in Robert Grenier's famous written proclamation "I hate >> speech" as well as in the opposite and too often unanalyzed >> Deconstructionist skepticism towards writing. As such both in the Language >> poets and the late post-structuralism, there is already present a fair >> amount of suspicion of the materiality of language..." >> >> This would be true if you really consider Robert Grenier a language poet; >> to >> me, the very opposite is true. Grenier's statement is much nearer to the >> Turkish poet Orhan Veli's statement: "We wish it were possible to dump >> even >> language itself." (*Eda Anthology*). As you say, believing in the >> immateriality of language, he uses visual and constructive/serial means to >> show it. I do not think most language school poets would admit to any >> "suspicion of the materiality of language..." though you are trying to get >> them to your side. >> >> e) "To my way of thinking, poetry at its best serves as a sort of javelin >> to >> be launched at the veil of language beyond which lies the mystical which >> can >> only be indicated or pointed to but not directly talked about. Poetry >> should >> always be pushing at the limits of language..." >> >> Wait until *The Spiritual Life of Replicants* comes out by Talisman Books >> this fall. *SL* is part VI of a longer poem *The Structure of Escape:* .A >> Comic Essay On Poetry. >> >> Ciao, >> >> Murat >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: >> >> Hi Adam, >>> This essay really got me thinking, but as I wrote a response I realized I >>> had too much to say to want to spill the whole thing onto the list, so I >>> wrote it up as a blog post here: >>> >>> >>> http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/mind-body-spirit-whatever-new-poetics-metaphysical >>> >>> I'd very much like to here what you (or anybody else for that matter) >>> think. >>> >>> Regards, >>> JF Quackenbush >>> jfq@myuw.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: >>> >>> This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The Decay of >>> >>>> Spirituality in Poetry": >>>> >>>> http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm >>>> >>>> Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. >>>> >>>> Enjoy. >>>> >>>> Adam >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>>> >>>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>> >>> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:20:02 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Catherine, CJ, RICH, et al.: I agree -- some of the discussion has veered dangerously close to the sentiment Pound identified 100 yrs ago, sealing poetry off in its own pleasure dome beyond any whiff of money, which becomes nothing more than an excuse not to pay anyone anything in the realm of the arts. The question isn't whether capital itself is a compromise -- it definitely is. BUT paper, ink, postage, binding, all these things cost money, and they have to be paid for somehow. To get back to Rich's original point, we can't control THAT, but we can decide how and where the money comes from. We can and should offer alternatives to the current system, which the contest set-up, Rich asserts and I agree, merely replicates on a small scale. I've written more and exhaustively about this on my blog http://habenichtpress.com/ and i'd gladly invite folks to read and comment... David On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > so, typically for this list, we've moved from questioning the culture of > prizes -- which in most cases are a sort of poetry raffle, but have become > a > trophy to brandish at hiring and tenure committees -- to saying that 1) > people shouldn't work for money to subsidize their practice, 2) teachers > shouldn't get paid, 3) creative writing shouldn't be taught > > and this is communicated in the actual work? > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:24:59 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: "J. Michael Mollohan" Subject: Re: "The Decay of Poetry in Spirituality" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron, I've read a little of Sufi literature. Rumi is a favorite. I have "Tales of the Reed Pipe" too, and love it. I've read some of the Christian Mystics but can't say I really care for many of them beyond St. John of the Cross. I do occasionally read something new in those areas, but I feel more of an affinity to the Taoists and Zen Buddhists. Funny you should mention Motilal Barnasidass. I've ordered several books from them. One,in particular on Jnana Yoga that I've read several times. I also have their Buddhist Sanskrit Grammar & Dictionary, which proved invaluable in my study of Stcherbatsky. Thanks for the note. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Exley" To: Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 3:56 PM Subject: Re: "The Decay of Poetry in Spirituality" > Michael, I suggest you read 'Sufism and Taoism: A Comparative Study of > Philosophical Concepts' by Toshihiko Izutsu, University of California > Press, > Berkeley, 1984, or 'Sufi Literature and the Journey to Immortality' by > A.E. > I. Falconar, Motilal Banarsidass, Patna, India, 1991. Sufism, the > mystical > stream of Islam, has much in common with Zen and Taoism and proves, > likewise > that spirituality is far more important than 'religion', and goes to prove > that much contemporary poetry would be instantly melted down beyond its > constituent parts by the white hot heat at the heart of spirituality - > read > Ibn Al'Arabi or Jalaluddin Rumi to begin to get a sense of that heat. > There > are Christian mystics as well, of course, such as Julian of Norwich, > Thomas > Traherne, Hildegard of Bingen or the Flemish mystic Jan van Ruysbroek, > many > riches outside the confines of the 'established' churches. Once you start, > you won't stop, discipline or not. Enjoy the research, take care. > > On 25/7/10 16:54, "J. Michael Mollohan" wrote: > >> I've often said that the USofA is more religious and less spiritual than >> any >> other country. In the part of the country I live (i.e., Bible Beltish) >> there seems to be a church on every corner. Truly, it's not that bad, but >> it's a lot less far off the mark than you might imagine. The town I'm >> from >> now has a population of around 900 souls. There are AT LEAST 10 >> churches. >> In the city where I now live there are literally hundreds of churches for >> a >> population barely above 50,000. I've noticed that in small cities where >> there are a lot of churches, the religious life tends to be cliquish. >> Additionally, other aspects of life are equally fragmented and closed to >> outsiders, often aligned along the lines of where people go to church. >> Since I belong to no church and profess Taoism, or on occasion, Zen >> Buddhism, I don't fall into any of the "Christian" or "Jewish" or >> "Muslum" >> cliques. I most closely resemble the Unitarian or Unity groups, but even >> still since I don't "belong" I'm always not quite on the inside. I'm >> outside looking in through stained glass windows. >> >> Someone should do a study. I don't have the discipline. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "carol dorf" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 11:26 PM >> Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" >> >> >>> I'm not sure about this idea of America and spirituality -- we certainly >>> are >>> far more religious (i.e. participating in traditional religion) than >>> people >>> in other developed countries; though perhaps our religiosity interferes >>> with >>> the development of other spiritual perspectives. >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Adam Katz >>> wrote: >>> >>>> In regard to Fieled's posting, below: In Joyce's letters to Grant >>>> Richards, >>>> when he's trying to get Dubliners published and fighting against the >>>> censorship of certain common though blasphemous words, he says >>>> something >>>> like "I seriously believe you will retard the course of Irish >>>> civilization >>>> by preventing them from having a look at itself in my nicely polished >>>> looking glass." Something like that. >>>> a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'll admit I haven't read Marx's enti= >>>> >>>> =A0=A0=A0=A0 David,=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 I'll admit I haven't read Marx's >>>> enti= >>>> re oeuvre, but the intermingling of =0Aspirituality & materialism is >>>> fascin= >>>> ating, and I have=A0perused Deleuze/Guattari =0Aas well.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>> Thi= >>>> nk of what's happening in the US now; our collective spirit is being >>>> =0Agut= >>>> tered for dearth of the ability to consume the way we're accustomed to; >>>> our= >>>> =0Aspirits are bound to different levels of >>>> materialism.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 >>>> Th= >>>> e spirituality I'd like to espouse encompasses metaphysical dimensions; >>>> =0A= >>>> realms that are based, somewhat idealistically, on "soul" and "spirit," >>>> lik= >>>> e the =0AWhitmanic.=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0 But rehashing the Whitmanic doesn't >>>> work= >>>> . What about a new spirituality =0Athat holds up a mirror and catches >>>> the >>>> d= >>>> arkness of our current fetishism? >>>> >>>> ================================== >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>>> guidelines >>>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >>>> >>> >>> ================================== >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & >> sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 11:58:04 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Al Filreis Subject: PoemTalk 34: on Charles Olson Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Today we are pleased to release episode 34 of the PoemTalk series - a discussion of one of Charles Olson's Maximus poems with Charles Bernstein, Rachel Blau DuPlessis and Bob Perelman. http://poemtalkatkwh.blogspot.com/ http://www.poetryfoundation.org/ - Al Filreis Al Filreis Kelly Professor Faculty Dir., Kelly Writers House Dir., Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 10:03:08 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: AUG 12 Belladonna / Dusie Reading [TAKE TWO] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry for the double up, BUT: reading is at 8pm. = [TAKE TWO]=0A=0ASorry for the=C2=A0double up, BUT: reading is=C2=A0at 8pm. = =0A=C2=A0=0AThursday, August 12, 2010; 8:00 pm=0ABelladonna* & Dusie presen= t=0A=C2=A0=0AThe Summer Reading=0APlease join us in celebrating these autho= rs and their new books: =0A=C2=A0=0ACara Benson: (made), BookThug=0AMair=C3= =A9ad Byrne: The Best of (What=E2=80=99s Left of) Heaven, Publishing Genius= =0ACaroline Crumpacker: Recherche Theories, EtherDome Press=0ASusana Gardne= r: Herso, An Heirship in Waves, Black Radish Books=0AEileen Myles: Importan= ce of Being Iceland, Semiotext(e); Inferno, O/R=0AKate Zambreno: O Fallen A= ngel, Chiasmus Press=0A=C2=A0=0ALocation: Book Thug Nation: 100 N. 3rd St; = Between Berry St & Wythe Ave; =0AWilliamsbug, Brooklyn=0AAdmission: FREE=C2= =A0=0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.belladonnaseries.org/readingseries.html=0A=0A=C2= =A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0A_________= _______________=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=C2=A0{homepage}=C2=A0=0A= http://www.necessetics.com/sousrature.html=C2=A0{journal}=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 09:36:13 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Cara Benson Subject: AUG 12 Belladonna / Dusie Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, Brooklyn in August. You can do it... Thursday, Augus= Hi All,=0A=0AYes, Brooklyn in August. You can do it...=0A=0AThursday, Augus= t 12, 2010; 7:30 pm=0ABelladonna* & Dusie present=0A=C2=A0=0AThe Summer Rea= ding=0APlease join us in celebrating these authors and their new books: =0A= =C2=A0=0ACara Benson: (made), BookThug=0AMair=C3=A9ad Byrne: The Best of (W= hat=E2=80=99s Left of) Heaven, Publishing Genius=0ACaroline Crumpacker: Rec= herche Theories, EtherDome Press=0ASusana Gardner: Herso, An Heirship in Wa= ves, Black Radish Books=0AEileen Myles: Importance of Being Iceland, Semiot= ext(e); Inferno, O/R=0AKate Zambreno: O Fallen Angel, Chiasmus Press=0A=C2= =A0=0ALocation: Book Thug Nation: 100 N. 3rd St; Between Berry St & Wythe A= ve; =0AWilliamsbug, Brooklyn=0AAdmission: FREE=C2=A0=0A=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.= belladonnaseries.org/readingseries.html=0A=0A=0A________________________=C2= =A0=0Ahttp://www.necessetics.com=C2=A0{homepage}=C2=A0=0Ahttp://www.necesse= tics.com/sousrature.html=C2=A0{journal}=0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:20:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eric Weinstein Subject: Call for Submissions: PRICK OF THE SPINDLE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi all, *Prick of the Spindle *is currently seeking submissions for its fall 2010 issue (due out in September). Guidelines and the on-line submission manager are available here. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks & all best, Eric ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 12:23:31 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <792206.50536.qm@web33407.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html So here we have an independent cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly volunteer staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not effectively fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest or the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! -- but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), the bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations of remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not selling books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first editions that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). Nope, they're having a contest. -- All best, Catherine Daly c.a.b.daly@gmail.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:07:35 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Johnson Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Wittgenstein believed that most (but by no means all) talk about the mystical or the transcendental or the spiritual amounted to a load of crap/delusion/self-delusion. And who can disagree? Step into a bookstore and peruse the relevant sections. This is why he particularly loved Samuel Johnson's prayers (a small volume of which he often carried with him) -because they eschew claptrap, that is, are ethical writings rather than mystical in nature. It's an egregious mistake to caricature Wittgenstein as some sort of cold-hearted atheist materialist logician. Read anything about his life -the many memoirs left by his students (I like Norman Malcolm's best, a very moving small book), the biography by Ray Monk- and you find a man absolutely tortured by ethical considerations. Mark On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Hi, Jason, > > " On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never denied > that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a > meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to > impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that there > can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also > says > that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless and he > would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because the > attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I think > are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the > Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't write > (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. > Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him > repudiating > that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal value) > and > the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: > > "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no > value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." > > Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he pays > lip > service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends to it > and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk "meaningfully" > about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing > becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a > grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks for > the key under the light because that's where the light is, not necessarily > where the key is? > > Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the sense > of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is and > happens as it does happen." > > Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the English > syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the syntax > for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are true) > or > don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as the > paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. > > Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive > forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the > agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process of > emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as > process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally > different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a > "subject-predicate" > construction is only a part. > > "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening > and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this > would again be accidental. > > It must lie outside the world." > > Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism > about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy > (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. > > "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." > > Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. > > "Propositions cannot express anything higher." > > Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure having > any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, > subject-predicate structure. This is a priori assumption on W's part having > to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the state > state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere abstraction > from it. > > > "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed in > language." > > It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more > specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of translation), > you > are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial > importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on > disintegration, fragmentation, etc. > > "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to speak > wax or wane as a whole. > > The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." > > W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. > > "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." > > This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the > universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics > (unless I misunderstand him). > > > "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its > contemplation > as a limited whole. > > The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." > > That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin is > all > for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He points > us to an outline of "a structure of escape." > > "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to > Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number of > casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of > the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort of > nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a statement > about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable of > having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful about > it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of > human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, spirituality, > faith, and religion." > > That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my opinion > rebuts him. > > "B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does" > > Yes. > > "C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read the > anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. I > tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at > least > in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my opinion > that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the first > postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension dates to > the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less well > versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much resonating > with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, but I > think i can see what you're getting at there." > > I think you will find the Eda anthology very interesting. A hundred twenty > page selection from it (with a few additional essays) has appeared in a > special section in *Jacket* (http://jacketmagazine.com/34/eda-essays.sh) > > I agree with you completely about *Moby Dick*. > > "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was maybe > being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a > hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a > little too important to me personally to allow for the outright materialism > that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some > sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't > much > care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious > of > the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of > irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of > writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, I > feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going > on, > at least as it strikes me." > > I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but I > think one should call a spade a spade. > > E. I am very much looking forward to it! > > I'll announce it the moment it is out. > > Thank you again for your very thoughtful remarks. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > Hi Murat, > > Excellent feedback, thanks! > > > > On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never denied > > that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a > > meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to > > impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that > there > > can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also > says > > that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless and > he > > would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because > the > > attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I think > > are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the > > Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't > write > > (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. > > Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him > repudiating > > that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal value) > and > > the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: > > > > "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > > everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no > > value -- and if there were, it would be of no value. > > > > If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening > > and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > > What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this > > would again be accidental. > > > > It must lie outside the world. > > > > 6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions. > > > > Propositions cannot express anything higher. > > > > 6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > > limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed > in > > language. > > > > In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to > speak > > wax or wane as a whole. > > > > The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy. > > > > 6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is. > > > > 6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its > contemplation > > as a limited whole. > > > > The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." > > > > Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > > returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to > > Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number > of > > casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of > > the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort > of > > nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a > statement > > about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable > of > > having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful > about > > it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of > > human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, > spirituality, > > faith, and religion. > > > > B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does > > > > C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read the > > anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. I > > tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at > least > > in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my > opinion > > that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the first > > postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension dates > to > > the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less > well > > versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much resonating > > with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, but > I > > think i can see what you're getting at there. > > > > D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was > maybe > > being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a > > hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a > > little too important to me personally to allow for the outright > materialism > > that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > > largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some > > sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > > criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't > much > > care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious > of > > the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of > > irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of > > writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, > I > > feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going > on, > > at least as it strikes me. > > > > E. I am very much looking forward to it! > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > > > Jason, > >> > >> Thank you for your very interesting blog entry. I have a few questions > >> relating to it. > >> > >> a) You mention "Wittgenstein's thoroughgoing linguistic mysticism that > >> remained present in all of his works from the Tractatus > >> Logic-Philosophicus > >> onward." Could you elaborate on this more? While I agree with you that > the > >> inner logic of Wittgenstein's own thought led him to a wall against > which > >> beat (fly in a box), I am not sure how he transcended it. In fact, he > >> himself would have objected to any idea of transcendence? His followers > >> definitely rejected any hint or use of the concept of mysticism while > >> applying his thought on language games to poetics. Isn't "mysticism" a > >> dirty > >> word among poets or poetry thinkers who refer to Wittgenstein most? > >> > >> b) I am glad you point to the importance of Emerson and > transcendentalism > >> in > >> American poetry (and 19th century prose; but in your list of poets > >> sustaining the "spiritual" tradition you ignore a crucial figure, Jack > >> Spicer. > >> > >> c) One generally assumes the "irrelevance" of Romanticism, at least > >> English > >> Romanticism (German Romanticism is very different) to our present > pursuit. > >> What about the most recent, extremely interesting Millennium Anthology > >> which > >> attempts to re-cast Romanticism in a new light, as a precursor to > >> modernism. > >> Do you buy that? I think the 19th century German Romanticism (a figure > >> like > >> Novalis as much as Blake) has a lot to say to us in a pursuit of the > >> metaphysical /spiritual in poetry. > >> > >> d) "It's there in Robert Grenier's famous written proclamation "I hate > >> speech" as well as in the opposite and too often unanalyzed > >> Deconstructionist skepticism towards writing. As such both in the > Language > >> poets and the late post-structuralism, there is already present a fair > >> amount of suspicion of the materiality of language..." > >> > >> This would be true if you really consider Robert Grenier a language > poet; > >> to > >> me, the very opposite is true. Grenier's statement is much nearer to the > >> Turkish poet Orhan Veli's statement: "We wish it were possible to dump > >> even > >> language itself." (*Eda Anthology*). As you say, believing in the > >> immateriality of language, he uses visual and constructive/serial means > to > >> show it. I do not think most language school poets would admit to any > >> "suspicion of the materiality of language..." though you are trying to > get > >> them to your side. > >> > >> e) "To my way of thinking, poetry at its best serves as a sort of > javelin > >> to > >> be launched at the veil of language beyond which lies the mystical which > >> can > >> only be indicated or pointed to but not directly talked about. Poetry > >> should > >> always be pushing at the limits of language..." > >> > >> Wait until *The Spiritual Life of Replicants* comes out by Talisman > Books > >> this fall. *SL* is part VI of a longer poem *The Structure of Escape:* > .A > >> Comic Essay On Poetry. > >> > >> Ciao, > >> > >> Murat > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> > >> Hi Adam, > >>> This essay really got me thinking, but as I wrote a response I realized > I > >>> had too much to say to want to spill the whole thing onto the list, so > I > >>> wrote it up as a blog post here: > >>> > >>> > >>> > http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/mind-body-spirit-whatever-new-poetics-metaphysical > >>> > >>> I'd very much like to here what you (or anybody else for that matter) > >>> think. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> JF Quackenbush > >>> jfq@myuw.net > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: > >>> > >>> This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The Decay > of > >>> > >>>> Spirituality in Poetry": > >>>> > >>>> http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm > >>>> > >>>> Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. > >>>> > >>>> Enjoy. > >>>> > >>>> Adam > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ================================== > >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ================================== > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >>> guidelines > >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >>> > >>> > >> ================================== > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:37:12 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence in the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail for which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & your intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very* successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of the alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as tactic, is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even though I understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its basic spirit anyhow. I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work done before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two poets (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you call for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have misunderstood it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any press who runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work, our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's, what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, here. If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the question of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within the funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for teaching undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & UB's dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit reductive) here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for accepting that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to articulate it? here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & even insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're wanting to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding particularly for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published both of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, respect & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital, that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based in haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) comes to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in doing the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? Yours, CJ Martin On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly wrote: > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. > > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html > > So here we have an independent > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly volunteer > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not effectively > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest or > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! -- > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), the > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations of > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not > selling > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first > editions > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). > > Nope, they're having a contest. > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > -- www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:58:45 -0500 Reply-To: Jeff Hansen Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeff Hansen Subject: item for inclusion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I recently published a book with Blue Lion Press, which uses Lulu as its p= rinter. The press is edited by Jukka-Pekka Kervinen and Peter Ganick. It is= entitled "Jazz Forms" and is essentially my selected poems from 1988-2008.= You can purchase a copy at Lulu for $9 or simply download the entire book = for free. The link is http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/jazz-forms/5652529 "Poets have long been mesmerized by jazz. And when they get together in the= same room they tend to resemble each other. But Jefferson Hansen has done = something different in Jazz Forms. The impulse might still be mimetic but h= e translates what he is listening to into a work that is full of ecosystems= and associations, full of things like birds and fires and air and bears an= d babies. The jazz in "Jazz Forms" leads to trance, is transformative." =E2=80=94Juliana Spahr =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:28:20 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Obododimma Oha Subject: On Being a Cybernomad Comments: To: USAAfricaDialogue , ederi , elsalites@yahoogroups.com, obodooha@yahoo.com, "NewPoetry: Contemporary Poetry News &, Views" , Philosophy and Psychology of Cyberspace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "Inhabiting cyberspace is something that should suit wanderlust. Cyberspace provides a relatively free environment for one to migrate from one location to the other." Read full text of "On Being a Cybernomad" at: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5599126-146/on_being_a_cybernomad__.csp -- Obododimma Oha http://udude.wordpress.com/ Dept. of English University of Ibadan Nigeria & Fellow, Centre for Peace & Conflict Studies University of Ibadan Phone: +234 803 333 1330; +234 805 350 6604; +234 808 264 8060. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 06:30:41 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHRIS: at this juncture, yeah, we're sadly at a dead end. but i do find myself wei= rdly shocked that you see opposition to poetry contests that call for readi= ng fees as a species of belligerence. viz. there's really no _meaningful_ c= omparison between, on one hand, a _small_ press that solicits poets for "re= ading fees" and, on the other hand, a poet getting paid to teach within an = always already institutionally compromised environment (& here i _fully_ re= cognize what you're saying).=20 & when you say, Chris, you ain't so immaculate yrself so don't call out any= one else for being dirty (i.e. "while collecting a payecheck ... "), that l= ogic just don't fly. i mean, the aim for a few folks here has at times been= geared toward defending contests as ethical practice by way of a logic tha= t suggests any source of funding is bad so, in turn, all sources of funding= are good. & this just simply is not the case. & it's precisely here that t= he "bad cut and paste" you pointed out in one of my previous msgs is perfec= tly applicable, precisely in spite of the logic that denied it.=A0=20 in the end my intervention here is an expression of concern, not belligeren= ce. it's worth marking the difference. if yr comments below, a few of which= i take as clearly belligerent, are intended to suggest i intervened in thi= s issue at this moment to draw attention to DTC -- well, that's not it by a= long shot. DTC & the pubs always sell reasonably well, w/ or w/out the cir= cus.=A0=20 deadlocked hugs ... rich ...=20 =A0 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Mon, 7/26/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, July 26, 2010, 10:37 PM Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence in the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail for which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & you= r intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very* successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of the alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as tactic= , is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even though I understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its basi= c spirit anyhow. I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work done before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two poets (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you call for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have misunderstood it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any press wh= o runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work, our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's, what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, here. If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the questio= n of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within the funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for teaching undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & UB'= s dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit reductive) here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for accepting that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to articulate it? here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & even insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're wanting to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding particularly for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published bot= h of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, respect & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital, that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based in haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) comes to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in doing the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? Yours, CJ Martin On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly wrote= : > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. > > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html > > So here we have an independent > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly voluntee= r > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors,=A0 not effectively > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest or > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! = -- > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), the > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations of > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not > selling > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first > editions > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). > > Nope, they're having a contest. > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:22:13 -0400 Reply-To: tyrone williams Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rich, Like Chris I too have to beg off (the semester starts a month from today an= d I have a number of pressing projects to finish) but I will simply point o= ut a couple of things. Since readings and contests (not necessarily the sam= e thing) usually serve to defray the costs of publishing books, the questio= n of journals is not as pertinent here (yes, I know there are some journal = publication contests too). You speak of political responsibility at the "gr= ound" level but, vis-a-vis the university system, this is a misleading and = potentially politically irresponsible metaphor. The "complex matrix" of uni= versity financing and funding serves, here, as a form of mystification to t= he extent all public university financial records are public documents that= can be accessed and analyzed (the same is largely true for many private un= iversities). One can, if one wishes to, "follow the money" back to its sour= ces, savory or not. This is how many universities were forced to divest--or= at least acknowledge--their stocks in South African (and affiliated) compa= nies, businesses, etc. during apartheid. Your argument thus sounds like a v= ersion of Laurence Fishburne's character in the neo-noirish "Deep Cover": "= the money don't know where it comes from." Finally, you continue to portray= poets as naive saps suckered by the po' biz--that may be true for many but= certainly not all. It goes without saying that none of this is a defense o= f reading fees and contests per se (though I think it very much depends on = the particular contest and fee--do you get the winner's book? a book from t= he press of ones choosing? is it clear that the funds are being used to def= ray the costs of expenses? etc.), but it is a reminder that we, those who t= rade our labor for salaries or wages from universities (however layered the= degrees of labor, exploitation, and privilege), too reap the benefits of o= thers' "ground" work... Tyrone=20 -----Original Message----- >From: richard owens >Sent: Jul 25, 2010 4:42 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >CHRIS: > >man, in a lot ways i think our sense of the landscape is in alignment, but= 2 things: 1. the DTC narrative a couple msgs back was aimed at a question = rasied by Tyrone, who asked how DTC is funded and whether or not i (we) cld= provide alternate models for subsidizing print (and digital) projects; 2. = i do think that soliciting reading fees from poets is worse than _Paypallin= g_ cash to _Lulu_ (both of which are _wildly_ problematic), but i think thi= s for a range of reasons i'm not sure can be adequately addressed here.=20 > >you're right to point out the distance between unflinching action & unflin= ching rhetoric -- and i think this extends to another difference: the disti= nction between tactical strategy (i.e. the call to refuse contests; and the= gesture of publicly refusing them in real time) and analysis (i.e. the sug= gestion that contests are themselves symptomatic of deeper tendencies that = are no less corrupt and more firmly entrenched and thus less visible, more = permissible, etc). i agree with you (and with Tyrone) the whole way here --= and i don't think i've suggested anyone involved in this conversation func= tions as the handmaiden of capital (tho i think we all, in odd ways, are, m= yself included).=20 > >here i need to return to that longer msg i sent out re DTC, because there = was an essential point i fear was missed: the question of pedagogy. many of= us teach _in_ university systems &, as you say, far more of us have been s= tretched across the rack by universities than taken in by poetry contests. = but here there's an incredible difference: again, universities, however cor= rupt (i'm thinking here of Cary Nelson's and Marc Bousquet's amazing invest= igations into the university industry; and of course the student loan scand= al that was splayed open by mainstream media a couple years back), are deep= ly entrenched institutions that produce and reproduce forms of exploitation= that are often difficult to name and difficult to resist -- & here the dis= tance between praxis and analysis narrows, but at the same time the extent = to which we can intervene is also limited (i mean, you can fight city hall,= but can you fight city hall?). this to say, when we talk abt funding > sources derived from institutions, we're talking abt, as i sd before, an = incredibly complex matrix of relations that reside far beyond the immediate= , the local, the ground. BUT (and this is the clearest point i want to make= ), when a _small_ press (a press _at_ the ground level; a press which _is n= ot_ New Directions or City Lights or a major university press) introduces a= contest which solicits reading fees from poets, the gesture is clearly not= a good faith gesture but one that exploits the desire so many poets have s= imply to be read with care -- and it's precisely this which i find so incre= dibly saddening. and since we see these practices _at the ground level_ i d= o believe we are responsible for calling them into question (analysis) and,= in this case, refusing them completely (tactic).=20 > >it's far more difficult to challenge power at an institutional level -- an= d to identify how power exerts itself through our own behaviors (viz. i mea= nt it when i asked folks to point out my own blindspots) -- but when we ide= ntify destructive practices at the ground level we have a responsibility to= name them, refuse them and (again, thanks Tyrone) offer other possibilitie= s. in this particular case --- the case of contest culture -- we might just= be treating a symptom that discloses a far broader, systemic crisis, but i= think, at the very least, the gesture is essential. as ever, that distance= between institutional power and local community (and i take _this_ list as= an instantiation of the "local") is crucial here.=20 > >&, Chris, when you say contests are symptomatic of deeper tendencies, as i= say, i agree & it's precisely here that the question of pedagogy is indisp= ensable b/c i think the appeal to contests with reading fees as a funding m= odel emerges out of a very particular view of what poetry is, what a "good"= poem is and what a successful poet is -- and it's precisely this view of p= oetry, and cultural production in general, that has to be troubled, splayed= open and radically reimagined. as Pierre pointed out a couple days back, w= hen a poet asks "how do we get a foot in the door?", this question rests on= a range of very troubling assumptions about what culture is, how it comes = to us, how we respond to it and how we participate in its production.=C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 > >hugs ... rich ...=20 > >........richard owens >810 richmond ave >buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >damn the caesars, the journal >damn the caesars, the blog > >--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: > >From: Little Red Leaves >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Sunday, July 25, 2010, 2:54 PM > >Dear Rich, > >First, the Allen Fisher piece in the new DTC is *amazing*... Is there more >out there from this project? & I like your history a few notes back--much >appreciated. > >Just a rejoinder or two--the folks in this thread are not the voice of >capital, or not trying to be, many in fact trying *not* to be. I'd also sa= y >at this point that universities have fleeced more unsuspecting citizens th= an >poetry contests, hands down--I really don't think there's a case there. & = I >work for one. I definitely think there's more work to do on *that* front & >that contests might just be a symptom. But is it really so simple? Somehow >giving your money to lulu.com is more ethical than running a contest? Or >paying a web hosting service? (I do these, too.) I like your call to >unflinching action (or am seduced by it, when it's action) but if it's jus= t >unflinching rhetoric we need, then fuck it. It's a sermon. (I've been >seduced by those, too. Am still, in all honesty.) > >I like your thing about how capital advances by denying absolute statement= s. >Yep, agreed (see the contemporary university). Plenty of models, too, (old= & >new, including sermons) where capital advances by way of the absolute. But= I >don't think you're a capitalist--didn't & wouldn't call your absolute >statement fascist--we can leave this behavior to the pundits (who get rich >off it). I just think we could do some work to pry apart the demand for >legitimacy from these other demands, since legitimacy works too well as a >kind of coin, even in the absence of cashflow. > >...Institutions as pot dealers & contests as rock slingers? Sheesh, >analogies might be something to avoid here. I honestly thought it was a ba= d >cut-and-paste! It's funny, but it's just wrong. We're not doing god's work >in the university & the funds aren't *just* not clean, much of the product >isn't the healthy alternative (it's debt, in part, & it's massive). Or we'= re >doing the bank's work as much as anyone else's. & yet many of us still fee= l >compelled to live/work here--to talk here (here)--would it not be better t= o >address this without indulging in a dressing down of each other (or dressi= ng >up of ourselves) according to whose wire rims are the least Palin-esque, >whose window the least *Overton*? > >Again, the thing that prompted me to chime in here was the thought that we >could/should be involved in measuring the *relevance* of our colleagues' >press work--that the use of contests/reading fees for funding could >*possibly* serve as a litmus test in that regard--that we should walk away >from those colleagues' press work who participate in these things as >*irrelevant*. Too much debris in that path. It's not a conservative positi= on >to want to avoid lending a hand in piling it up. > >More shortly--C > >On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:40 AM, richard owens = wrote: > >> GARY &c: >> >> thanks for this clarification. like you, i too believe everyone's aright= . >> but, man, if youse catch me participating in hypersketchy practices that= i >> might not see as sketchy -- if you see a blindspot that i somehow missed= , >> then call it friendo. i'll prolly be grateful. >> >> re contests & funding: saying institutional sources of funding are no le= ss >> compromised than those funds pulled in from contest reading fees is like >> saying: >> man, the guy next door sells weed so don't climb on that one over there = for >> peddling >> smack & crack. the logic is stunningly conservative -- like the smooth w= ay >> around to >> saying: don't make waves coz don't nobody care &, >> besides, poet worker bees never minded being exploited by contests in >> the first place (wot is it Emma Goldman sz, those treated most poorly by >>=C2=A0 a nation -- or, in this case, any other institution or practice --= are >> it's >> fiercest defenders? i mean, just because we got rodents in the living ro= om >> don't mean we shld ignore the rats in the kitchen or the mites in the >> flour. (vermin =3D sketchy practices not people.) >> >> hugs ... rich ... >> >> >> >> ........richard owens >> 810 richmond ave >> buffalo NY 14222-1167 >> >> damn the caesars, the journal >> damn the caesars, the blog >> >> --- On Sat, 7/24/10, Gary Sullivan wrote: >> >> From: Gary Sullivan >> Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 10:51 AM >> >> Dear Richard Owens, >> >> I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school, I don't remember >> what age exactly. >> >> I had read Lewis Carroll's Hunting of the Snark, which had scared the ho= ly >> living crap out of me. >> >> I was so terrified, I didn't know what to do with myself. So I sat down = and >> wrote a poem, trying to write something even more terrifying than Huntin= g of >> the Snark. >> >> I am not sure what my motivations were. I'm sure a good child psychologi= st >> would have a theory or two. >> >> This has been, more or less, my relationship to writing for the last 40 >> years or so. >> >> I'm not entirely unsympathetic to what you're saying. A piece I wrote in >> the 90s and published in How To Proceed in the Arts, "First Draft Imagin= ary >> Writer Survey," ends with the questions: >> >> "Why do we call it 'submission'? What are we collectively 'accepting'? W= hat >> do we write about when we write about writing?" >> >> That said, I didn't post a bad poem to poetry.com to prove that such >> contests are bad, as it appears Catherine, who beat me to the punch, did= . >> >> Nor to prove that people who know nothing about poetry can't judge it, a= s >> it appears Jennifer might believe. (I couldn't agree less with that >> sentiment.) >> >> I certainly did not do it to show up anyone's "usurious" practices. I do >> not like that word nor how it has been used to target a certain populati= on. >> >> I did it because I was pissed off about what had happened to my >> grandfather. Less so his having been duped by poetry.com--I had mixed >> feelings about that, as it had actually given him some mild pleasure whi= le >> he was on his deathbed. He was in great pain and dying, after all. As >> consolation, poetry.com made him feel as though he was a "real" poet. >> (Whatever that is.) He recited his winning poem to me over the phone fro= m >> memory while he was in the hospital. >> >> I was really pissed off because he had died, coughing up blood in a >> hospital with my grandmother at his side. >> >> I don't care whether or not poetry magazines or presses or universities = or >> individuals hold contests and charge entry fees. I have never entered on= e, >> not one with a fee. But not because I am morally opposed to them. The si= mple >> truth is that I am a cheapskate. If I felt more than 75% sure that my >> manuscript stood a chance, I might pay the money and send it. >> >> I like Noah Eli Gordon. I met him once in Denver. He was sweet and funny >> and talked a lot about poetry. Which he clearly loves. More than I do, >> certainly. I have no interest in poetry beyond that which directly feeds= , >> inspires, terrifies, surprises me. That which engages me. That's probabl= y >> true for him, too, though I would imagine that he's engaged in far more >> being written today than I am. >> >> I have no opinion one way or the other about any contest that he might b= e >> promoting or managing or dreaming up or whathaveyou. That's his business= . >> >> I do know that, when you are spotted doing anything beyond appearing to = be >> a humble poet dutifully hunched over a desk in the corner crafting your >> some-day important earth-shattering poems, that some poets sometimes lik= e to >> trash talk you, call you a capitalist, usurer, careerist, fraud, whateve= r. >> Poetry is a religion for the people who do this. They are welcome to it.= I >> am a third or fourth generation atheist, and I have no interest in magic= al >> or ritualized thinking about anything, least of all poetry. >> >> I admire many of the people who have chimed in against poetry contests. = But >> no more or less so than I admire Noah. Or anyone, for that matter, who m= ight >> submit their work to the contest he announced. >> >> After all, my grandfather, who I loved very dearly, was a >> contest-submitter. Indeed: a contest winner! And his poem actually made = me >> cry when he recited it to me, which is more than I can say for almost >> everything currently in print, however it might have wound up there. >> >> This is not all to say that you are wrong to feel how you do about >> contests. That's your business and you are of course as qualified as any= one >> else to think about such things. Just that, though I appreciate the >> call-out, I thought I should be open about the situation of having writt= en >> that poetry.com poem and what my own honest feelings about contests are. >> To me, they are, like those words "submission" and "acceptance," part of= the >> landscape, and do define us to some extent. Just like everything else. >> >> Gary >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbo= x. >> >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAG= L:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > >--=20 >www.littleredleaves.com >www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Tyrone Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 10:36:16 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Mark, What we are (at least I am) discussing here has nothing to do with the New Wave religiosity you are referring here. It's completely different, related but different from ethical values. We all know about W's "tortured" spirit, but what does that have to do with his philosophical writings? As for Norman Malcolm -his book *Dreaming* is one of the silliest books ever written applying W's ideas. Ciao, Murat On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Mark Johnson wrote: > Wittgenstein believed that most (but by no means all) talk about the > mystical or the transcendental or the spiritual amounted to a load of > crap/delusion/self-delusion. And who can disagree? Step into a bookstore > and > peruse the relevant sections. This is why he particularly loved Samuel > Johnson's prayers (a small volume of which he often carried with him) > -because they eschew claptrap, that is, are ethical writings rather than > mystical in nature. > > It's an egregious mistake to caricature Wittgenstein as some sort of > cold-hearted atheist materialist logician. Read anything about his life > -the > many memoirs left by his students (I like Norman Malcolm's best, a very > moving small book), the biography by Ray Monk- and you find a man > absolutely > tortured by ethical considerations. > > > Mark > > > > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 12:29 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat >wrote: > > > Hi, Jason, > > > > " On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never denied > > that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a > > meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to > > impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that > there > > can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also > > says > > that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless and > he > > would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because > the > > attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I think > > are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the > > Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't > write > > (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. > > Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him > > repudiating > > that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal value) > > and > > the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: > > > > "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > > everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no > > value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." > > > > Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he pays > > lip > > service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends to > it > > and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk > "meaningfully" > > about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing > > becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a > > grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks > for > > the key under the light because that's where the light is, not > necessarily > > where the key is? > > > > Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the > sense > > of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is and > > happens as it does happen." > > > > Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the English > > syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the > syntax > > for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are true) > > or > > don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as the > > paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. > > > > Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive > > forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the > > agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process of > > emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as > > process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally > > different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a > > "subject-predicate" > > construction is only a part. > > > > "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening > > and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > > What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this > > would again be accidental. > > > > It must lie outside the world." > > > > Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism > > about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy > > (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. > > > > "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." > > > > Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. > > > > "Propositions cannot express anything higher." > > > > Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure > having > > any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, > > subject-predicate structure. This is a priori assumption on W's part > having > > to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the state > > state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere abstraction > > from it. > > > > > > "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > > limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed > in > > language." > > > > It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more > > specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of translation), > > you > > are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial > > importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on > > disintegration, fragmentation, etc. > > > > "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to > speak > > wax or wane as a whole. > > > > The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." > > > > W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. > > > > "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." > > > > This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the > > universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics > > (unless I misunderstand him). > > > > > > "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its > > contemplation > > as a limited whole. > > > > The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." > > > > That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin is > > all > > for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He > points > > us to an outline of "a structure of escape." > > > > "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > > returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to > > Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number > of > > casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of > > the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort > of > > nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a > statement > > about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable > of > > having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful > about > > it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of > > human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, > spirituality, > > faith, and religion." > > > > That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my > opinion > > rebuts him. > > > > "B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does" > > > > Yes. > > > > "C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read the > > anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. I > > tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at > > least > > in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my > opinion > > that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the first > > postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension dates > to > > the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less > well > > versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much resonating > > with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, but > I > > think i can see what you're getting at there." > > > > I think you will find the Eda anthology very interesting. A hundred > twenty > > page selection from it (with a few additional essays) has appeared in a > > special section in *Jacket* (http://jacketmagazine.com/34/eda-essays.sh) > > > > I agree with you completely about *Moby Dick*. > > > > "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was > maybe > > being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a > > hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a > > little too important to me personally to allow for the outright > materialism > > that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > > largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some > > sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > > criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't > > much > > care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious > > of > > the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of > > irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of > > writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, > I > > feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going > > on, > > at least as it strikes me." > > > > I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but I > > think one should call a spade a spade. > > > > E. I am very much looking forward to it! > > > > I'll announce it the moment it is out. > > > > Thank you again for your very thoughtful remarks. > > > > Ciao, > > > > Murat > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > > > Hi Murat, > > > Excellent feedback, thanks! > > > > > > On the first point, it's notable I think that wittgenstein never > denied > > > that there might be a beetle in the box, but just that there was a > > > meaningful way to talk about it. And yet he's clearly sympathetic to > > > impulses in that regard. In his lecture on ethics, while denying that > > there > > > can be "the ultimate good" as a meaningful object of discourse, he also > > says > > > that he understands the impulse to try to talk about it nevertheless > and > > he > > > would never suggest that anyone should not try to talk about it because > > the > > > attempt is in itself valuable. There are further two remarks that I > think > > > are telling. First there's the comment that there are two books in the > > > Tractatus, first everything he wrote, and second everything he didn't > > write > > > (because he couldn't), and of the two the latter is far more important. > > > Second the section from the tractatus which I've never found him > > repudiating > > > that I think speaks to this is 6.4 (all propositions are of equal > value) > > and > > > the comments to it. I'll quote here at length: > > > > > > "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > > > everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no > > > value -- and if there were, it would be of no value. > > > > > > If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all > happening > > > and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > > > What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise > this > > > would again be accidental. > > > > > > It must lie outside the world. > > > > > > 6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions. > > > > > > Propositions cannot express anything higher. > > > > > > 6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > > > limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be > expressed > > in > > > language. > > > > > > In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to > > speak > > > wax or wane as a whole. > > > > > > The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy. > > > > > > 6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is. > > > > > > 6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its > > contemplation > > > as a limited whole. > > > > > > The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." > > > > > > Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > > > returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to > > > Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number > > of > > > casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits > of > > > the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort > > of > > > nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a > > statement > > > about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable > > of > > > having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful > > about > > > it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part > of > > > human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, > > spirituality, > > > faith, and religion. > > > > > > B RE: Spicer. He does, I think, form a touchstone. as does > > > > > > C. I'm going to plead ignorance on this point because I haven't read > the > > > anthology yet, but if I understand the idea then I think I might agree. > I > > > tend to think of modernism as having more tension present in it tho at > > least > > > in its attitudes, and I also think it starts much earlier, given my > > opinion > > > that not a lot of people agree with me about that Moby Dick is the > first > > > postmodern novel and therefore the modernist postmodernist tension > dates > > to > > > the nineteenth century at least. As for the german romantics, i'm less > > well > > > versded. I have been reading Goethe lately and it's very much > resonating > > > with me in a way that I haven't fully integrated in my thinking yet, > but > > I > > > think i can see what you're getting at there. > > > > > > D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was > > maybe > > > being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have > a > > > hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a > > > little too important to me personally to allow for the outright > > materialism > > > that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > > > largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just > some > > > sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > > > criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't > > much > > > care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is > suspicious > > of > > > the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of > > > irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of > > > writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for > example, > > I > > > feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's > going > > on, > > > at least as it strikes me. > > > > > > E. I am very much looking forward to it! > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jul 25, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > > > > > > Jason, > > >> > > >> Thank you for your very interesting blog entry. I have a few questions > > >> relating to it. > > >> > > >> a) You mention "Wittgenstein's thoroughgoing linguistic mysticism that > > >> remained present in all of his works from the Tractatus > > >> Logic-Philosophicus > > >> onward." Could you elaborate on this more? While I agree with you that > > the > > >> inner logic of Wittgenstein's own thought led him to a wall against > > which > > >> beat (fly in a box), I am not sure how he transcended it. In fact, he > > >> himself would have objected to any idea of transcendence? His > followers > > >> definitely rejected any hint or use of the concept of mysticism while > > >> applying his thought on language games to poetics. Isn't "mysticism" a > > >> dirty > > >> word among poets or poetry thinkers who refer to Wittgenstein most? > > >> > > >> b) I am glad you point to the importance of Emerson and > > transcendentalism > > >> in > > >> American poetry (and 19th century prose; but in your list of poets > > >> sustaining the "spiritual" tradition you ignore a crucial figure, Jack > > >> Spicer. > > >> > > >> c) One generally assumes the "irrelevance" of Romanticism, at least > > >> English > > >> Romanticism (German Romanticism is very different) to our present > > pursuit. > > >> What about the most recent, extremely interesting Millennium Anthology > > >> which > > >> attempts to re-cast Romanticism in a new light, as a precursor to > > >> modernism. > > >> Do you buy that? I think the 19th century German Romanticism (a figure > > >> like > > >> Novalis as much as Blake) has a lot to say to us in a pursuit of the > > >> metaphysical /spiritual in poetry. > > >> > > >> d) "It's there in Robert Grenier's famous written proclamation "I hate > > >> speech" as well as in the opposite and too often unanalyzed > > >> Deconstructionist skepticism towards writing. As such both in the > > Language > > >> poets and the late post-structuralism, there is already present a fair > > >> amount of suspicion of the materiality of language..." > > >> > > >> This would be true if you really consider Robert Grenier a language > > poet; > > >> to > > >> me, the very opposite is true. Grenier's statement is much nearer to > the > > >> Turkish poet Orhan Veli's statement: "We wish it were possible to dump > > >> even > > >> language itself." (*Eda Anthology*). As you say, believing in the > > >> immateriality of language, he uses visual and constructive/serial > means > > to > > >> show it. I do not think most language school poets would admit to any > > >> "suspicion of the materiality of language..." though you are trying to > > get > > >> them to your side. > > >> > > >> e) "To my way of thinking, poetry at its best serves as a sort of > > javelin > > >> to > > >> be launched at the veil of language beyond which lies the mystical > which > > >> can > > >> only be indicated or pointed to but not directly talked about. Poetry > > >> should > > >> always be pushing at the limits of language..." > > >> > > >> Wait until *The Spiritual Life of Replicants* comes out by Talisman > > Books > > >> this fall. *SL* is part VI of a longer poem *The Structure of Escape:* > > .A > > >> Comic Essay On Poetry. > > >> > > >> Ciao, > > >> > > >> Murat > > >> > > >> > > >> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:13 AM, Jason Quackenbush > wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi Adam, > > >>> This essay really got me thinking, but as I wrote a response I > realized > > I > > >>> had too much to say to want to spill the whole thing onto the list, > so > > I > > >>> wrote it up as a blog post here: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > http://www.wetasphalt.com/content/mind-body-spirit-whatever-new-poetics-metaphysical > > >>> > > >>> I'd very much like to here what you (or anybody else for that matter) > > >>> think. > > >>> > > >>> Regards, > > >>> JF Quackenbush > > >>> jfq@myuw.net > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On Jul 18, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Adam Fieled wrote: > > >>> > > >>> This is an essay of mine newly published in Word for Word, "The Decay > > of > > >>> > > >>>> Spirituality in Poetry": > > >>>> > > >>>> http://www.wordforword.info/vol17/Fieled.htm > > >>>> > > >>>> Many thanks to Jonathan Minton. > > >>>> > > >>>> Enjoy. > > >>>> > > >>>> Adam > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ================================== > > >>>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > >>>> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > > >>>> http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> ================================== > > >>> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > >>> guidelines > > >>> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >>> > > >>> > > >> ================================== > > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: > > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > >> > > > > > > ================================== > > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > > guidelines > > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:21:20 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 hello, cj! extreme, yes. evangelical? god, i hope not. insincere? i see how it could seem so, but again, no. i feel like something IS being misunderstood here, to a certain extent. perhaps on both sides, i dunno. my feeling is not that getting top-down funding of any sort -- be that institutional or sliding-scale subscription, or outright calls for donations from rich friends or relatives -- is pure as the driven snow. far from it. but if i am able to channel funds from a certain source and put that to the service of printing poems and b-sides and chaps, meanwhile throwing business to local printers and places like boxcar press, i do feel like that's categorically different than the contest model, which is based on growth (always got to build up and get more entries), and as has already been said, soliciting funds from hundreds of poets who do not have a chance at winning and are not going to get a full or fair read. i just do. but as i state in my blog post, i started habenicht in 2000. at that time i worked various part-time jobs and everything came from my own dime. i created a budget and determined this is how much i can spend on that book, and i hustled to sell enough books to break even, more or less. now that i've cut my teeth doing that, the funding i receive to help with kadar koli allows me to do a SLIGHTLY larger journal, with a SLIGHTLY larger print run. i am about to take two boxes to the post office and this will go out entirely from my pocket. but here, i feel like, we're getting into gradations of purity, which was not the point at all. to me, the point is simply to LOOK AROUND at the landscape and determine what is acceptable to you or not, as a poet, as a publisher, as a person involved with poetry at whatever level. the reason the intervention took place here (and on my blog) is that these are (virtual) spaces that such people frequent. it's not a drive-by just meant to stir things up. in the sense of spurring this discussion, which has already been both passionate and nuanced without devolving into mindless flaming, it's already been successful in my book. it has certainly made me rethink some of my heated rhetoric and extreme views -- though i doubt that for me personally those views will change, i understand better where folks are coming from -- and hopefully for others it's done the same. but again, look around and decide this is that i want from the poetry publishing world, this is what i don't want. and how can i change that? what could be done differently? the remarkable success of dos press in concert with LRL would certainly seem to be a model that i find admirable. in that sense i feel like we are trying to multitask, though perhaps in a different sense than you mean -- as alongside these discussions are other discussions and i am constantly thinking about the next phase of what all this means in terms of action... sincerely, david On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Little Red Leaves < littleredleaves@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence in > the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail for > which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & > your > intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very* > successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of the > alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as > tactic, > is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even though I > understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its > basic > spirit anyhow. > > I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work done > before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to > writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two poets > (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you call > for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have misunderstood > it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any press > who > runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work, > our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's, > what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, here. > If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) > > I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the > question > of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within the > funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for teaching > undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their > ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I > fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional > funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, > right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly > doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & > UB's > dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit reductive) > here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for accepting > that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the > oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to > articulate it? > here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & even > insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're wanting > to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding particularly > for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & > proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. > > As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published > both > of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, respect > & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I > wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of > other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital, > that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based in > haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) comes > to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in doing > the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? > > Yours, > CJ Martin > > > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly >wrote: > > > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. > > > > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html > > > > So here we have an independent > > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly > volunteer > > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not effectively > > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is > > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest or > > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from > > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! > -- > > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), the > > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations of > > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not > > selling > > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first > > editions > > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the > > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts > > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on > > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). > > > > Nope, they're having a contest. > > > > -- > > All best, > > Catherine Daly > > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > -- > www.littleredleaves.com > www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:14:46 +0200 Reply-To: argotist@fsmail.net Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jeffrey Side Subject: The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CSolzhenitsyn_Jukebox=E2=80=9D_?= by Ann Bogle Comments: To: British Poetics , Poetryetc , Wryting-L MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The new ebook from Argotist Ebooks is =E2=80=9CSolzhenitsyn Jukebox=E2=80= =9D by Ann Bogle =20 Description:=20 =20 Ann Bogle's =E2=80=9CSolzhenitsyn Jukebox=E2=80=9D is a collection of stori= es where texts create themselves out of shreds of recollections, leaps of l= ogic, and the constant self-adjustment of narrative imperatives; spinning t= hemselves out in the process of going along under their own momentum. This = is akin to what the critic and culturologist Mikhail Iampolsky referred to = as the poetry of =E2=80=9Ccaresse=E2=80=9D. =20 Available as a free ebook here: =20 http://www.lulu.com/content/e-book/solzhenitsyn-jukebox/9145301 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:45:43 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Willard Fox Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Trying to win prizes with poetry is like entering your mother in a wet t-shirt competition. ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:54:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Bobby Baird Subject: News from DEpress: Poems and Fake Book Reviews by Joshua Baldwin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *depress * the print deployment of *digital emunction* , is excited to present its inaugural publication: *Poems and Fake Book Reviews*, a chapbook** by DE contributor Joshua Baldwin. Taking readers on a wild romp across a deranged and timeless America of the imagination, *Poems and Fake Book Reviews *adds six exclusive fake book reviews to the nine that originally appeared at *digital emunction *. The book also includes the poems =93Red Hook Fragments,=94 =93Los Angeles S= eries=94 (with striking ink illustrations by the author), and =93Four Architecture Poems.=94 Hilarious and madcap, Baldwin's *Poems and Fake Book Reviews* bu= rsts at the seams with absurdity and wild discovery, and is a true literary entertainment. *Poems and Fake Book Reviews* was produced in a limited edition of 100, wit= h teal endpapers and a beautiful letterpress cover printed by Seattle's Fernandez and Sons. BUY A LIMITED EDITION COPY OF *POEMS AND FAKE BOOK REVIEWS* FOR JUST $10 (VIA PAYPAL + S&H INCLUDED) Joshua Baldwin=92s poems and real book reviews have appeared in *Chicago Review*, *The Brooklyn Rail,* *Publishers Weekly,* and other publications. His novella, *The New York Sun: A Story of Los Angeles* will be published b= y Turtle Point Press in the fall of 2011. He graduated from the college at the University of Chicago in 2006 and lives in Brooklyn. Also: Check out the new *de*press page at http://www.digitalemunction.com/press/ ++++++++ Robert P. Baird robertpbaird.com digitalemunction.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:10:42 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Kyle Schlesinger Subject: WINKFIELD, CHAMPION, CLAY, & BASINSKI AT POEMS & PICTURES | Center for Book Arts, NYC Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Artist Talk: Poems and Pictures A Renaissance in the Art of the Book (1946-1981) Wednesday, July 28, 6:30 pm Featuring: Trevor Winkfield Miles Champion Steve Clay Moderated by Michael Basinski, Curator of the Poetry Collection at the University of Buffalo Suggested donation: $10 / $5 for members Trevor Winkfield was born in Leeds, England and moved to New York in 1969. He is an acclaimed visual artist who has had twelve solo exhibitions and won numerous awards for his work. As a review of his work in The New Yorker said, "Winkfield's patented blend of Pop Art, Surrealism and Victoriana remains a dependable source of formal and poetic gratification." Miles Champion is a poet. His books include Compositional Bonbons Placate, Sore Models, Three Bell Zero and How to Laugh (forthcoming from Adventures in Poetry). Providence, an artist's book in collaboration with Jane South, was published by Sienese Shredder Editions in 2008. His recent writing appears in American Book Review, Critical Quarterly, Mimeo Mimeo, PN Review and The Poetry Project Newsletter. Steve Clay is an author and the publisher of Granary Books. For over twenty years, Granary Books has brought together writers, artists, and bookmakers to investigate verbal/visual relations in the time-honored spirit of independent publishing. Granary's mission-to produce, promote, document, and theorize new works exploring the intersection of word, image, and page-has earned the Press a reputation as one of the most unique and significant small publishers operating today. Steve Clay has authored or co-authored A Book of the Book with Jerome Rothenberg, A Secret Location on the Lower East Side with Rodney Phillips, and When Will The Book be Done? Michael Basinski is the Assistant Curator of the Poetry/Rare Books Collection of the University Libraries, SUNY at Buffalo. His poems, articles and reviews have appeared in numerous publications including: Proliferation, Terrible Work, Deluxe Rubber Chicken, Boxkite, The Mill Hunk Herald, Yellow Silk, The Village Voice, Object, Oblek, Score, Generator, Juxta, Poetic Briefs, Another Chicago Magazine, Sure: A Charles Bukowski Newsletter, Moody Street Irregulars: A Jack Kerouac Newsletter, Kiosk, Earth's Daughters, Atticus Review, Mallife, Taproot, Transmog, B-City, House Organ, First Intensity, Mirage No.4/Period(ical), Lower Limit Speech, Texture, R/IFT, Chain, Antenym, Bullhead, Poetry New York, First Offence, and many others. For more than twenty years he has performed his choral voice collages and sound texts with his intermedia performance ensemble: The Ebma, which has released two Lps: SEA and Enjambment. His books include: Idyll (Juxta Press, 1996), Heebee-jeebies (Meow Press, 1996), SleVep (Tailspin Press, 1995), Vessels (Texture Press, 1993), Cnyttan (Meow Press, 1993), Mooon Bok(Leave Books, 1992), and Red Rain Too (1992) and Flight to the Moon (1993) from Run Away Spoon Press. Poems and Pictures: A Renaissance in the Art of the Book (1946-1981) Organized by Kyle Schlesinger, Proprietor of Cuneiform Press. Poems & Pictures examines relationships between visual and language art. The exhibit features over 60 books produced between 1946 and 1981, as well as paintings, collages, periodicals, and ephemera. Poets, artists and collaborators include Wallace Berman, Joe Brainard, Robert Creeley, Jim Dine, Johanna Drucker, Philip Guston, Joanne Kyger, Emily McVarish, Karen Randall, Larry Rivers, George Schneeman, and many more. A comprehensive catalog accompanies this exhibition. Center for Book Arts 28 West 27th Street, Third Floor New York, New York 10001 (212) 481-0295 www.centerforbookarts.org ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:31:17 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 p.s. -- with regards to the question of higher education i came to the decision to apply to an MFA program while auditing tom clark's grad class at new college, frustrated by my inability to keep up with the work due to my two part-time gigs. i considered going to new college -- bullet dodged there! -- and wound up at texas state because they offered me the best deal. purely mercenary. no apologies. there were certain specific things i wanted to study and work on in my poetry, and the stubborn midwestern boy in me did not see the point of going into debt to do that. while there, there were things i was unhappy with and i spoke up about them, often to the chagrin of tom and other higher-ups. the phd is a different beast, as you know. nevertheless, ub offered me a good deal, again, and i felt that the blue state public university system would be more congenial to my own sensibilities and beliefs and ability to impact things through action. so i am the union rep for the department and i'm pretty active in the various ways open to grad students. we are struggling with not only budget cuts and a devastated state revenue, but the administration's proposed response to that, which is to essentially REMOVE u.b. from the SUNY system -- privatize it, and with that a free hand in raising tuition for already strapped students. and, as with others who come to the poetics program, i felt that here would be a vital place for my press and poetry to grow. what i'm saying is that this is an exchange. i have no illusions about that. i'm here to get certain things, i'm offering my energy and labor, i'm trying to make it a worthwhile encounter for my students. i look at rich owens and his BALLADS project, e.g., [not to mention punch press which has already been covered previously] and i see a valuable roadmap for how i want to do this. that is, already having certain poetic concerns, he's grounded those in careful study of theory and primary texts which has helped that project flower into something which, i'm not embarrassed nor hesitant to say, will prove to be some of the more interesting work being done at this time. that's why I'M here and i wouldn't be here if i didn't believe that, flawed though it may be, the higher ed. system didn't have something of value to offer and i, through it, something of value to offer in return. sincerely, d On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, David Hadbawnik wrote: > hello, cj! > > extreme, yes. evangelical? god, i hope not. insincere? i see how it could > seem so, but again, no. > > i feel like something IS being misunderstood here, to a certain extent. > perhaps on both sides, i dunno. my feeling is not that getting top-down > funding of any sort -- be that institutional or sliding-scale subscription, > or outright calls for donations from rich friends or relatives -- is pure as > the driven snow. far from it. but if i am able to channel funds from a > certain source and put that to the service of printing poems and b-sides and > chaps, meanwhile throwing business to local printers and places like boxcar > press, i do feel like that's categorically different than the contest model, > which is based on growth (always got to build up and get more entries), and > as has already been said, soliciting funds from hundreds of poets who do not > have a chance at winning and are not going to get a full or fair read. i > just do. > > but as i state in my blog post, i started habenicht in 2000. at that time i > worked various part-time jobs and everything came from my own dime. i > created a budget and determined this is how much i can spend on that book, > and i hustled to sell enough books to break even, more or less. now that > i've cut my teeth doing that, the funding i receive to help with kadar koli > allows me to do a SLIGHTLY larger journal, with a SLIGHTLY larger print run. > i am about to take two boxes to the post office and this will go out > entirely from my pocket. but here, i feel like, we're getting into > gradations of purity, which was not the point at all. > > to me, the point is simply to LOOK AROUND at the landscape and determine > what is acceptable to you or not, as a poet, as a publisher, as a person > involved with poetry at whatever level. the reason the intervention took > place here (and on my blog) is that these are (virtual) spaces that such > people frequent. it's not a drive-by just meant to stir things up. in the > sense of spurring this discussion, which has already been both passionate > and nuanced without devolving into mindless flaming, it's already been > successful in my book. it has certainly made me rethink some of my heated > rhetoric and extreme views -- though i doubt that for me personally those > views will change, i understand better where folks are coming from -- and > hopefully for others it's done the same. but again, look around and decide > this is that i want from the poetry publishing world, this is what i don't > want. and how can i change that? what could be done differently? the > remarkable success of dos press in concert with LRL would certainly seem to > be a model that i find admirable. > > in that sense i feel like we are trying to multitask, though perhaps in a > different sense than you mean -- as alongside these discussions are other > discussions and i am constantly thinking about the next phase of what all > this means in terms of action... > > sincerely, > > david > > > > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Little Red Leaves < > littleredleaves@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence in >> the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail for >> which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & >> your >> intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very* >> successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of >> the >> alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as >> tactic, >> is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even though >> I >> understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its >> basic >> spirit anyhow. >> >> I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work done >> before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to >> writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two poets >> (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you call >> for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have misunderstood >> it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any press >> who >> runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work, >> our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's, >> what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, here. >> If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) >> >> I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the >> question >> of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within the >> funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for teaching >> undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their >> ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I >> fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional >> funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, >> right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly >> doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & >> UB's >> dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit reductive) >> here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for accepting >> that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the >> oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to >> articulate it? >> here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & >> even >> insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're >> wanting >> to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding particularly >> for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & >> proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. >> >> As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published >> both >> of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, >> respect >> & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I >> wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of >> other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital, >> that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based in >> haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) comes >> to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in doing >> the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? >> >> Yours, >> CJ Martin >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly > >wrote: >> >> > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. >> > >> > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html >> > >> > So here we have an independent >> > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly >> volunteer >> > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not effectively >> > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is >> > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest >> or >> > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from >> > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! >> -- >> > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), >> the >> > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations >> of >> > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not >> > selling >> > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first >> > editions >> > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the >> > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts >> > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on >> > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). >> > >> > Nope, they're having a contest. >> > >> > -- >> > All best, >> > Catherine Daly >> > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> > >> > ================================== >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> www.littleredleaves.com >> www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 11:11:27 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Wittgenstein is of much more interest to artists and possibly philosophers than he is to logicians and mathematicians. He didn't even understand Godel's work, thought that the subject matter of Godel's work was not amenable to logic, thought that because it involved the self-referential that it was as inevitably flawed as much of the rest of the logic involving self-reference. He read the most significant work in mathematical logic of his day and dismissed it as nonsense. It seems he didn't think we could say much of real value about most interersting things. So he didn't really go for it the way Godel did. Yu gotta at least go for it. Wittgenstein went for it as a writer, as a kind of philosophical poet. Not as a logician. He was a rich guy who gave it all away. That's pretty cool. But he was insignificant and even regressive as a logician. He missed the big boat of his time, the boat that Godel 'started'. That grew into Turing's boat and has sailed into now as the entirety of computing and all that has meant in so many fields. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:49:36 +0000 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Ellis Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <2025104075.496921280180743441.JavaMail.root@zimbra-mbox01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I entered my mother in a wet panty contest=2C and she won. That was the ye= ar after I won. And the year before that=2C a pear from our backyard orcha= rd won. What color would a "panty-colored orchard" be? Let's have a conte= st about that. The winner gets a brassiere full of extroverted weiner meat= . What color would a panty-colored Oscar Mayer weenie truck be? Let's hav= e a contest. Let's have a contest about nothing. About nothing in a panty= -colored Oscar Mayer pear truck orchard. Would a pear truck orchard named = Oscar eat a brassiere full of extroverted weiner meat? Let's have a contes= t. A pear will be the judge. Panty-colored pear meat will slide up a wein= er into an Oscar Mayer bank raid getaway truck=2C with a panty-ful of wetne= ss. Let's have a context. Contest. Let's have a context contest. Here i= s what is: Where are you in it? Can you find yourself? =20 > Date: Mon=2C 26 Jul 2010 16:45:43 -0500 > From: wxf8424@LOUISIANA.EDU > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >=20 > Trying to win prizes with poetry is like entering your mother in a wet t-= shirt competition. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hot= mail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmultiaccount&ocid=3DP= ID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:12:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yup, and the space program gave us teflon. The question isn't individual benefit, it's the=20 impact on the environment, which for most of=20 those of us old enough to remember the old regime is pretty apparently dire. At 01:31 PM 7/27/2010, you wrote: >p.s. -- with regards to the question of higher education > >i came to the decision to apply to an MFA program while auditing tom= clark's >grad class at new college, frustrated by my inability to keep up with the >work due to my two part-time gigs. i considered going to new college -- >bullet dodged there! -- and wound up at texas state because they offered me >the best deal. purely mercenary. no apologies. there were certain specific >things i wanted to study and work on in my poetry, and the stubborn >midwestern boy in me did not see the point of going into debt to do that. >while there, there were things i was unhappy with and i spoke up about= them, >often to the chagrin of tom and other higher-ups. > >the phd is a different beast, as you know. nevertheless, ub offered me a >good deal, again, and i felt that the blue state public university system >would be more congenial to my own sensibilities and beliefs and ability to >impact things through action. so i am the union rep for the department and >i'm pretty active in the various ways open to grad students. we are >struggling with not only budget cuts and a devastated state revenue, but= the >administration's proposed response to that, which is to essentially REMOVE >u.b. from the SUNY system -- privatize it, and with that a free hand in >raising tuition for already strapped students. > >and, as with others who come to the poetics program, i felt that here would >be a vital place for my press and poetry to grow. what i'm saying is that >this is an exchange. i have no illusions about that. i'm here to get= certain >things, i'm offering my energy and labor, i'm trying to make it a= worthwhile >encounter for my students. i look at rich owens and his BALLADS project, >e.g., [not to mention punch press which has already been covered= previously] >and i see a valuable roadmap for how i want to do this. that is, already >having certain poetic concerns, he's grounded those in careful study of >theory and primary texts which has helped that project flower into= something >which, i'm not embarrassed nor hesitant to say, will prove to be some of= the >more interesting work being done at this time. > >that's why I'M here and i wouldn't be here if i didn't believe that, flawed >though it may be, the higher ed. system didn't have something of value to >offer and i, through it, something of value to offer in return. > >sincerely, > >d > >On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, David Hadbawnik= wrote: > > > hello, cj! > > > > extreme, yes. evangelical? god, i hope not. insincere? i see how it= could > > seem so, but again, no. > > > > i feel like something IS being misunderstood here, to a certain extent. > > perhaps on both sides, i dunno. my feeling is not that getting top-down > > funding of any sort -- be that institutional or sliding-scale= subscription, > > or outright calls for donations from rich=20 > friends or relatives -- is pure as > > the driven snow. far from it. but if i am able to channel funds from a > > certain source and put that to the service of=20 > printing poems and b-sides and > > chaps, meanwhile throwing business to local printers and places like= boxcar > > press, i do feel like that's categorically=20 > different than the contest model, > > which is based on growth (always got to build up and get more entries),= and > > as has already been said, soliciting funds=20 > from hundreds of poets who do not > > have a chance at winning and are not going to get a full or fair read. i > > just do. > > > > but as i state in my blog post, i started habenicht in 2000. at that= time i > > worked various part-time jobs and everything came from my own dime. i > > created a budget and determined this is how much i can spend on that= book, > > and i hustled to sell enough books to break even, more or less. now that > > i've cut my teeth doing that, the funding i receive to help with kadar= koli > > allows me to do a SLIGHTLY larger journal,=20 > with a SLIGHTLY larger print run. > > i am about to take two boxes to the post office and this will go out > > entirely from my pocket. but here, i feel like, we're getting into > > gradations of purity, which was not the point at all. > > > > to me, the point is simply to LOOK AROUND at the landscape and determine > > what is acceptable to you or not, as a poet, as a publisher, as a person > > involved with poetry at whatever level. the reason the intervention took > > place here (and on my blog) is that these are (virtual) spaces that such > > people frequent. it's not a drive-by just meant to stir things up. in= the > > sense of spurring this discussion, which has already been both= passionate > > and nuanced without devolving into mindless flaming, it's already been > > successful in my book. it has certainly made me rethink some of my= heated > > rhetoric and extreme views -- though i doubt that for me personally= those > > views will change, i understand better where folks are coming from --= and > > hopefully for others it's done the same. but again, look around and= decide > > this is that i want from the poetry publishing world, this is what i= don't > > want. and how can i change that? what could be done differently? the > > remarkable success of dos press in concert with LRL would certainly seem= to > > be a model that i find admirable. > > > > in that sense i feel like we are trying to multitask, though perhaps in= a > > different sense than you mean -- as alongside these discussions are= other > > discussions and i am constantly thinking about the next phase of what= all > > this means in terms of action... > > > > sincerely, > > > > david > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Little Red Leaves < > > littleredleaves@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence= in > >> the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail= for > >> which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & > >> your > >> intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that= *very* > >> successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of > >> the > >> alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as > >> tactic, > >> is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even= though > >> I > >> understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its > >> basic > >> spirit anyhow. > >> > >> I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work= done > >> before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to > >> writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two= poets > >> (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you= call > >> for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have= misunderstood > >> it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any= press > >> who > >> runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our= work, > >> our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv= drive-by's, > >> what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking,= here. > >> If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) > >> > >> I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the > >> question > >> of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within= the > >> funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for= teaching > >> undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their > >> ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.)= I > >> fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that= institutional > >> funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, > >> right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it= supposedly > >> doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & > >> UB's > >> dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit= reductive) > >> here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for= accepting > >> that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the > >> oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to > >> articulate it? > >> here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & > >> even > >> insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're > >> wanting > >> to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding= particularly > >> for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & > >> proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. > >> > >> As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published > >> both > >> of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, > >> respect > >> & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I > >> wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number= of > >> other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to= capital, > >> that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based= in > >> haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation)= comes > >> to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in= doing > >> the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? > >> > >> Yours, > >> CJ Martin > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly >> >wrote: > >> > >> > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. > >> > > >> > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html > >> > > >> > So here we have an= independent > >> > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly > >> volunteer > >> > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not= effectively > >> > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it= is > >> > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers= Digest > >> or > >> > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money= from > >> > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops= both! > >> -- > >> > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), > >> the > >> > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for= donations > >> of > >> > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not > >> > selling > >> > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first > >> > editions > >> > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the > >> > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts > >> > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print= on > >> > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at= SPD). > >> > > >> > Nope, they're having a contest. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > All best, > >> > Catherine Daly > >> > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > >> > > >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines > >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> www.littleredleaves.com > >> www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > >> > >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > >> guidelines & sub/unsub info:= http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > >> > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept=20 >all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info:=20 >http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html New from Chax Press: Mark Weiss, As Landscape. $16. Order from http://www.chax.org/poets/weiss.htm "What a beautiful set of circumstances! What a=20 lovely concatenation of particulars. Here is the=20 poet alive in every sense of the word, and=20 through every one of his senses. Instead of=20 missing a beat or a part, Weiss=92 fragments are=20 like Chekhov=92s short stories=ADthe more that gets=20 left out, the more they seem to contain=85 One can=20 hear echoes from all the various=20 ancestors...[but] the voice, at its center, its=20 core, is pure Mark Weiss. His use of the fragment=20 is both elegant and bafflingly clear, a pure=20 musical threnody=85[it] opens a window, not only=20 into a mind, but a person, a personality, this=20 human figure at the emotional center of the poem." M.G. Stephens, in Jacket.=20 http://jacketmagazine.com/40/r-weiss-rb-stephens.shtml =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 16:11:15 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Ryan Daley Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <118913.69369.qm@web33404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 There's oiling spilling in the effin' Gulf, But no worries POETRY is where I should devote my time. I'll raise the issue of predatory lending practices in the Po-Biz arena. Ruth Lilly is holding hands with a sea monkey covered in oil But $15 reading fees are craptacular! My protest scope shall top kill the injustice of paying someone to read your crappy sludge when what you really want is my now-lonely drill baby drill. -Ryan On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 9:30 AM, richard owens wrote: > CHRIS: > > at this juncture, yeah, we're sadly at a dead end. but i do find myself > weirdly shocked that you see opposition to poetry contests that call for > reading fees as a species of belligerence. viz. there's really no > _meaningful_ comparison between, on one hand, a _small_ press that solicits > poets for "reading fees" and, on the other hand, a poet getting paid to > teach within an always already institutionally compromised environment (& > here i _fully_ recognize what you're saying). > > & when you say, Chris, you ain't so immaculate yrself so don't call out > anyone else for being dirty (i.e. "while collecting a payecheck ... "), that > logic just don't fly. i mean, the aim for a few folks here has at times been > geared toward defending contests as ethical practice by way of a logic that > suggests any source of funding is bad so, in turn, all sources of funding > are good. & this just simply is not the case. & it's precisely here that the > "bad cut and paste" you pointed out in one of my previous msgs is perfectly > applicable, precisely in spite of the logic that denied it. > > in the end my intervention here is an expression of concern, not > belligerence. it's worth marking the difference. if yr comments below, a few > of which i take as clearly belligerent, are intended to suggest i intervened > in this issue at this moment to draw attention to DTC -- well, that's not it > by a long shot. DTC & the pubs always sell reasonably well, w/ or w/out the > circus. > > deadlocked hugs ... rich ... > > > > > ........richard owens > 810 richmond ave > buffalo NY 14222-1167 > > damn the caesars, the journal > damn the caesars, the blog > > --- On Mon, 7/26/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: > > From: Little Red Leaves > Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Monday, July 26, 2010, 10:37 PM > > Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence in > the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail for > which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & > your > intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very* > successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of the > alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as > tactic, > is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even though I > understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its > basic > spirit anyhow. > > I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work done > before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to > writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two poets > (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you call > for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have misunderstood > it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any press > who > runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work, > our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's, > what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, here. > If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) > > I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the > question > of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within the > funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for teaching > undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their > ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I > fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional > funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, > right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly > doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & > UB's > dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit reductive) > here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for accepting > that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the > oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to > articulate it? > here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & even > insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're wanting > to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding particularly > for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & > proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. > > As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published > both > of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, respect > & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I > wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of > other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital, > that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based in > haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) comes > to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in doing > the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? > > Yours, > CJ Martin > > > > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly >wrote: > > > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. > > > > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html > > > > So here we have an independent > > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly > volunteer > > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not effectively > > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is > > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest or > > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from > > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! > -- > > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), the > > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations of > > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not > > selling > > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first > > editions > > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the > > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts > > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on > > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). > > > > Nope, they're having a contest. > > > > -- > > All best, > > Catherine Daly > > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > -- > www.littleredleaves.com > www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 13:49:38 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: <23728003.1280240534110.JavaMail.root@mswamui-bichon.atl.sa.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable TYRONE: what i find most incredibly frustrating at this stage in the conversation i= s that, as i sd in a previous msg directed at Chris=0A & as i'll say here a= gain, i do for the most part agree w/ what =0Ayou're saying -- but, again &= as ever, however we might choose to =0Aconsider the relation of our publis= hing practices to the university =0Astructure and, through that, the relati= on of the university to capital, =0Acontests are contests & calls for readi= ng fees (regardless of =0Awhether all entrants get the winner's bk or not) = are corrupt in a clear =0A& immediate way that i think is well worth respon= ding to, however =0Amuch a symptom the practice might be & however compromi= sed other =0Asources of funding might be.=20 re yr claim that i frame poets as =0Asaps: contests that solicit reading fe= es appear to target a _very_ =0Aparticular demographic. i wld never=0A fram= e these poets as saps, tho i sense these poets tend to be younger, =0Aeager= to be read, eager to be published, without meaningful connections =0Ato ot= her poetry communities and possibly less familiar with the =0Alandscape tha= n those firmly embedded in existing poetry communities. =A0 =A0=0A=20 warmest ... rich ... =A0 =A0=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Tue, 7/27/10, tyrone williams wrote: From: tyrone williams Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, July 27, 2010, 10:22 AM Rich, Like Chris I too have to beg off (the semester starts a month from today an= d I have a number of pressing projects to finish) but I will simply point o= ut a couple of things. Since readings and contests (not necessarily the sam= e thing) usually serve to defray the costs of publishing books, the questio= n of journals is not as pertinent here (yes, I know there are some journal = publication contests too). You speak of political responsibility at the "gr= ound" level but, vis-a-vis the university system, this is a misleading and = potentially politically irresponsible metaphor. The "complex matrix" of uni= versity financing and funding serves, here, as a form of mystification to t= he extent all public university financial records are public documents that= can be accessed and analyzed (the same is largely true for many private un= iversities). One can, if one wishes to, "follow the money" back to its sour= ces, savory or not. This is how many universities were forced to divest--or at least acknowledge--their stocks in South African (and affili= ated) companies, businesses, etc. during apartheid. Your argument thus soun= ds like a version of Laurence Fishburne's character in the neo-noirish "Dee= p Cover": "the money don't know where it comes from." Finally, you continue= to portray poets as naive saps suckered by the po' biz--that may be true f= or many but certainly not all. It goes without saying that none of this is = a defense of reading fees and contests per se (though I think it very much = depends on the particular contest and fee--do you get the winner's book? a = book from the press of ones choosing? is it clear that the funds are being = used to defray the costs of expenses? etc.), but it is a reminder that we, = those who trade our labor for salaries or wages from universities (however = layered the degrees of labor, exploitation, and privilege), too reap the be= nefits of others' "ground" work... Tyrone=20 -----Original Message----- >From: richard owens >Sent: Jul 25, 2010 4:42 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition > >CHRIS: > >man, in a lot ways i think our sense of the landscape is in alignment, but= 2 things: 1. the DTC narrative a couple msgs back was aimed at a question = rasied by Tyrone, who asked how DTC is funded and whether or not i (we) cld= provide alternate models for subsidizing print (and digital) projects; 2. = i do think that soliciting reading fees from poets is worse than _Paypallin= g_ cash to _Lulu_ (both of which are _wildly_ problematic), but i think thi= s for a range of reasons i'm not sure can be adequately addressed here.=20 > >you're right to point out the distance between unflinching action & unflin= ching rhetoric -- and i think this extends to another difference: the disti= nction between tactical strategy (i.e. the call to refuse contests; and the= gesture of publicly refusing them in real time) and analysis (i.e. the sug= gestion that contests are themselves symptomatic of deeper tendencies that = are no less corrupt and more firmly entrenched and thus less visible, more = permissible, etc). i agree with you (and with Tyrone) the whole way here --= and i don't think i've suggested anyone involved in this conversation func= tions as the handmaiden of capital (tho i think we all, in odd ways, are, m= yself included).=20 > >here i need to return to that longer msg i sent out re DTC, because there = was an essential point i fear was missed: the question of pedagogy. many of= us teach _in_ university systems &, as you say, far more of us have been s= tretched across the rack by universities than taken in by poetry contests. = but here there's an incredible difference: again, universities, however cor= rupt (i'm thinking here of Cary Nelson's and Marc Bousquet's amazing invest= igations into the university industry; and of course the student loan scand= al that was splayed open by mainstream media a couple years back), are deep= ly entrenched institutions that produce and reproduce forms of exploitation= that are often difficult to name and difficult to resist -- & here the dis= tance between praxis and analysis narrows, but at the same time the extent = to which we can intervene is also limited (i mean, you can fight city hall,= but can you fight city hall?). this to say, when we talk abt funding > sources derived from institutions, we're talking abt, as i sd before, an = incredibly complex matrix of relations that reside far beyond the immediate= , the local, the ground. BUT (and this is the clearest point i want to make= ), when a _small_ press (a press _at_ the ground level; a press which _is n= ot_ New Directions or City Lights or a major university press) introduces a= contest which solicits reading fees from poets, the gesture is clearly not= a good faith gesture but one that exploits the desire so many poets have s= imply to be read with care -- and it's precisely this which i find so incre= dibly saddening. and since we see these practices _at the ground level_ i d= o believe we are responsible for calling them into question (analysis) and,= in this case, refusing them completely (tactic).=20 > >it's far more difficult to challenge power at an institutional level -- an= d to identify how power exerts itself through our own behaviors (viz. i mea= nt it when i asked folks to point out my own blindspots) -- but when we ide= ntify destructive practices at the ground level we have a responsibility to= name them, refuse them and (again, thanks Tyrone) offer other possibilitie= s. in this particular case --- the case of contest culture -- we might just= be treating a symptom that discloses a far broader, systemic crisis, but i= think, at the very least, the gesture is essential. as ever, that distance= between institutional power and local community (and i take _this_ list as= an instantiation of the "local") is crucial here.=20 > >&, Chris, when you say contests are symptomatic of deeper tendencies, as i= say, i agree & it's precisely here that the question of pedagogy is indisp= ensable b/c i think the appeal to contests with reading fees as a funding m= odel emerges out of a very particular view of what poetry is, what a "good"= poem is and what a successful poet is -- and it's precisely this view of p= oetry, and cultural production in general, that has to be troubled, splayed= open and radically reimagined. as Pierre pointed out a couple days back, w= hen a poet asks "how do we get a foot in the door?", this question rests on= a range of very troubling assumptions about what culture is, how it comes = to us, how we respond to it and how we participate in its production.=A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 > >hugs ... rich ...=20 > >........richard owens >810 richmond ave >buffalo NY 14222-1167 > >damn the caesars, the journal >damn the caesars, the blog > >--- On Sun, 7/25/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: > >From: Little Red Leaves >Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Date: Sunday, July 25, 2010, 2:54 PM > >Dear Rich, > >First, the Allen Fisher piece in the new DTC is *amazing*... Is there more >out there from this project? & I like your history a few notes back--much >appreciated. > >Just a rejoinder or two--the folks in this thread are not the voice of >capital, or not trying to be, many in fact trying *not* to be. I'd also sa= y >at this point that universities have fleeced more unsuspecting citizens th= an >poetry contests, hands down--I really don't think there's a case there. & = I >work for one. I definitely think there's more work to do on *that* front & >that contests might just be a symptom. But is it really so simple? Somehow >giving your money to lulu.com is more ethical than running a contest? Or >paying a web hosting service? (I do these, too.) I like your call to >unflinching action (or am seduced by it, when it's action) but if it's jus= t >unflinching rhetoric we need, then fuck it. It's a sermon. (I've been >seduced by those, too. Am still, in all honesty.) > >I like your thing about how capital advances by denying absolute statement= s. >Yep, agreed (see the contemporary university). Plenty of models, too, (old= & >new, including sermons) where capital advances by way of the absolute. But= I >don't think you're a capitalist--didn't & wouldn't call your absolute >statement fascist--we can leave this behavior to the pundits (who get rich >off it). I just think we could do some work to pry apart the demand for >legitimacy from these other demands, since legitimacy works too well as a >kind of coin, even in the absence of cashflow. > >...Institutions as pot dealers & contests as rock slingers? Sheesh, >analogies might be something to avoid here. I honestly thought it was a ba= d >cut-and-paste! It's funny, but it's just wrong. We're not doing god's work >in the university & the funds aren't *just* not clean, much of the product >isn't the healthy alternative (it's debt, in part, & it's massive). Or we'= re >doing the bank's work as much as anyone else's. & yet many of us still fee= l >compelled to live/work here--to talk here (here)--would it not be better t= o >address this without indulging in a dressing down of each other (or dressi= ng >up of ourselves) according to whose wire rims are the least Palin-esque, >whose window the least *Overton*? > >Again, the thing that prompted me to chime in here was the thought that we >could/should be involved in measuring the *relevance* of our colleagues' >press work--that the use of contests/reading fees for funding could >*possibly* serve as a litmus test in that regard--that we should walk away >from those colleagues' press work who participate in these things as >*irrelevant*. Too much debris in that path. It's not a conservative positi= on >to want to avoid lending a hand in piling it up. > >More shortly--C > >On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 10:40 AM, richard owens = wrote: > >> GARY &c: >> >> thanks for this clarification. like you, i too believe everyone's aright= . >> but, man, if youse catch me participating in hypersketchy practices that= i >> might not see as sketchy -- if you see a blindspot that i somehow missed= , >> then call it friendo. i'll prolly be grateful. >> >> re contests & funding: saying institutional sources of funding are no le= ss >> compromised than those funds pulled in from contest reading fees is like >> saying: >> man, the guy next door sells weed so don't climb on that one over there = for >> peddling >> smack & crack. the logic is stunningly conservative -- like the smooth w= ay >> around to >> saying: don't make waves coz don't nobody care &, >> besides, poet worker bees never minded being exploited by contests in >> the first place (wot is it Emma Goldman sz, those treated most poorly by >>=A0 a nation -- or, in this case, any other institution or practice -- ar= e >> it's >> fiercest defenders? i mean, just because we got rodents in the living ro= om >> don't mean we shld ignore the rats in the kitchen or the mites in the >> flour. (vermin =3D sketchy practices not people.) >> >> hugs ... rich ... >> >> >> >> ........richard owens >> 810 richmond ave >> buffalo NY 14222-1167 >> >> damn the caesars, the journal >> damn the caesars, the blog >> >> --- On Sat, 7/24/10, Gary Sullivan wrote: >> >> From: Gary Sullivan >> Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Date: Saturday, July 24, 2010, 10:51 AM >> >> Dear Richard Owens, >> >> I started writing poetry when I was in grammar school, I don't remember >> what age exactly. >> >> I had read Lewis Carroll's Hunting of the Snark, which had scared the ho= ly >> living crap out of me. >> >> I was so terrified, I didn't know what to do with myself. So I sat down = and >> wrote a poem, trying to write something even more terrifying than Huntin= g of >> the Snark. >> >> I am not sure what my motivations were. I'm sure a good child psychologi= st >> would have a theory or two. >> >> This has been, more or less, my relationship to writing for the last 40 >> years or so. >> >> I'm not entirely unsympathetic to what you're saying. A piece I wrote in >> the 90s and published in How To Proceed in the Arts, "First Draft Imagin= ary >> Writer Survey," ends with the questions: >> >> "Why do we call it 'submission'? What are we collectively 'accepting'? W= hat >> do we write about when we write about writing?" >> >> That said, I didn't post a bad poem to poetry.com to prove that such >> contests are bad, as it appears Catherine, who beat me to the punch, did= . >> >> Nor to prove that people who know nothing about poetry can't judge it, a= s >> it appears Jennifer might believe. (I couldn't agree less with that >> sentiment.) >> >> I certainly did not do it to show up anyone's "usurious" practices. I do >> not like that word nor how it has been used to target a certain populati= on. >> >> I did it because I was pissed off about what had happened to my >> grandfather. Less so his having been duped by poetry.com--I had mixed >> feelings about that, as it had actually given him some mild pleasure whi= le >> he was on his deathbed. He was in great pain and dying, after all. As >> consolation, poetry.com made him feel as though he was a "real" poet. >> (Whatever that is.) He recited his winning poem to me over the phone fro= m >> memory while he was in the hospital. >> >> I was really pissed off because he had died, coughing up blood in a >> hospital with my grandmother at his side. >> >> I don't care whether or not poetry magazines or presses or universities = or >> individuals hold contests and charge entry fees. I have never entered on= e, >> not one with a fee. But not because I am morally opposed to them. The si= mple >> truth is that I am a cheapskate. If I felt more than 75% sure that my >> manuscript stood a chance, I might pay the money and send it. >> >> I like Noah Eli Gordon. I met him once in Denver. He was sweet and funny >> and talked a lot about poetry. Which he clearly loves. More than I do, >> certainly. I have no interest in poetry beyond that which directly feeds= , >> inspires, terrifies, surprises me. That which engages me. That's probabl= y >> true for him, too, though I would imagine that he's engaged in far more >> being written today than I am. >> >> I have no opinion one way or the other about any contest that he might b= e >> promoting or managing or dreaming up or whathaveyou. That's his business= . >> >> I do know that, when you are spotted doing anything beyond appearing to = be >> a humble poet dutifully hunched over a desk in the corner crafting your >> some-day important earth-shattering poems, that some poets sometimes lik= e to >> trash talk you, call you a capitalist, usurer, careerist, fraud, whateve= r. >> Poetry is a religion for the people who do this. They are welcome to it.= I >> am a third or fourth generation atheist, and I have no interest in magic= al >> or ritualized thinking about anything, least of all poetry. >> >> I admire many of the people who have chimed in against poetry contests. = But >> no more or less so than I admire Noah. Or anyone, for that matter, who m= ight >> submit their work to the contest he announced. >> >> After all, my grandfather, who I loved very dearly, was a >> contest-submitter. Indeed: a contest winner! And his poem actually made = me >> cry when he recited it to me, which is more than I can say for almost >> everything currently in print, however it might have wound up there. >> >> This is not all to say that you are wrong to feel how you do about >> contests. That's your business and you are of course as qualified as any= one >> else to think about such things. Just that, though I appreciate the >> call-out, I thought I should be open about the situation of having writt= en >> that poetry.com poem and what my own honest feelings about contests are. >> To me, they are, like those words "submission" and "acceptance," part of= the >> landscape, and do define us to some extent. Just like everything else. >> >> Gary >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbo= x. >> >> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=3DPID28326::T:WLMTAG= L:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideli= nes >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > > >--=20 >www.littleredleaves.com >www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guideline= s & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html Tyrone Williams =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:12:39 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve russell Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <5C5879895C004FB7A9E2E14FB476A999@OwnerPC> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii He donated $$$ to Rilke & Trakl. Pretty cool. & impressed B. Russell. & ended with language games ... becoming less the positivist. No, giving both thumbs down on his early work. His rep is still significant in the humanities (whether that means anything ??? who's to say...). ________________________________ From: Jim Andrews To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 2:11:27 PM Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" Wittgenstein is of much more interest to artists and possibly philosophers than he is to logicians and mathematicians. He didn't even understand Godel's work, thought that the subject matter of Godel's work was not amenable to logic, thought that because it involved the self-referential that it was as inevitably flawed as much of the rest of the logic involving self-reference. He read the most significant work in mathematical logic of his day and dismissed it as nonsense. It seems he didn't think we could say much of real value about most interersting things. So he didn't really go for it the way Godel did. Yu gotta at least go for it. Wittgenstein went for it as a writer, as a kind of philosophical poet. Not as a logician. He was a rich guy who gave it all away. That's pretty cool. But he was insignificant and even regressive as a logician. He missed the big boat of his time, the boat that Godel 'started'. That grew into Turing's boat and has sailed into now as the entirety of computing and all that has meant in so many fields. ja http://vispo.com ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 15:17:32 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: richard owens Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CHRIS &C: tho i find myself packing boxes, parenting, copying bks before bouncing 600= miles from Bflo, etc -- i'm not ready to duck out of this conversation b/c= i see it as one worth putting pressure on.=20 that sd, Chris, i need to take issue with how astoundingly abusive, aggress= ive and utterly patronizing the rhetorical construction of your last few me= ssages were (i.e. "shit boys", "evangelical", "insincere", "that cracks me = up", the tacit suggestion that i started this conversation to draw attentio= n to DTC, etc). if we roll _back_ thru the conversation, my initial objecti= on was to two things: 1) contests (and the _very_ particular view of poetry= and, by extension, cultural production that the logic of contests presuppo= ses and promotes); and 2) the centrality the language of submission enjoys = within the poetry industry. nor was i using Noah's Subito msg to the list a= s a "staging ground" for some absurdly quixotic campaign to reconstruct the= poetry industry by way of meatheaded brute force (which is what, again a s= ubtle but nonetheless hyper-aggressive way, seem to suggest). rather, seein= g a mid-career poet with recognition and some measure of influence, however great or small, announce a contest that called for reading fees si= mply struck me as wrong as something worth responding to -- and my initial = response was never intended to foreclose on considering problems contest an= d prize culture might be articulated with. =A0 =A0=20 Chris, i find myself sorely disappointed and saddened here by yr interventi= on in this conversation because, looking back across the full range of your= messages, it's still unclear precisely why you intervened in the first pla= ce --- to extend the analysis, to defend contest culture, to discourage act= ion, to warn against absolute statements, to publicly deliver a smack down = by way of a certain critical politesse? i mean, aside from critiquing the l= ogic of my (tactical hence provisional) position, what are you offering her= e?=20 when i sd no compromise i meant, quite simply, a total disavowal of contest= culture, something which, if i was unclear, entails dissuading students fr= om entering contests and questioning the logic of competition in the classr= oom, refusing to participate in contests yourself, questioning the logic of= prize culture when solicitations for reading fees circulate. & i don't see= any of this as so distracting or time consuming that it draws us away from= deeper or more pressing concerns (i.e. the move toward the privatization o= f universities David points out or the linkages between university moneys a= nd destructive corporate practices, interests, etc). opposing contest cultu= re would also involve, as i sd in a previous msg, putting pressure on the p= ublishers and institutions we admire to find alternate funding models and p= articipate in practices that promote cooperation rather than competition. s= o, if we're considering Beyond Baroque, as Catherine has, or Omnidawn, which publishes Tyrone and which you pointed to earlier, i see n= othing wrong with appealing to these publishers and institutions to put an = end to contests that call for reading fees. here, engagement by way of appe= al seems a far more meaningful way of _supporting_ these institutions than = simply buying books from or donating money to them. and i suspect with a ca= refully constructed, well-measured letter of appeal signed by a wide range = of poets, important cultural institutions like Beyond Baroque and publisher= s like Omnidawn might rethink these practices -- and, as i say, in turn, i = shld hope that my own compromised or complicit practices are called into qu= estion, brought to my attention, etc.=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=20 out ... rich ...=20 ........richard owens 810 richmond ave buffalo NY 14222-1167 damn the caesars, the journal damn the caesars, the blog --- On Mon, 7/26/10, Little Red Leaves wrote: From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, July 26, 2010, 10:37 PM Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presence in the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail for which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) & you= r intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very* successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of the alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as tactic= , is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even though I understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in its basi= c spirit anyhow. I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work done before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two poets (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you call for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have misunderstood it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any press wh= o runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work, our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's, what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, here. If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the questio= n of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from within the funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for teaching undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for their ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv & UB'= s dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit reductive) here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for accepting that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to articulate it? here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical & even insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're wanting to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding particularly for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then. & proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's published bot= h of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, respect & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital, that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based in haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) comes to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in doing the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? Yours, CJ Martin On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly wrote= : > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. > > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html > > So here we have an independent > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly voluntee= r > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors,=A0 not effectively > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it is > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest or > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money from > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops both! = -- > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does), the > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for donations of > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by not > selling > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first > editions > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in print on > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at SPD). > > Nope, they're having a contest. > > -- > All best, > Catherine Daly > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =0A=0A=0A =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 18:32:26 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Seaman Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Important message first: It takes about 3 hours for a jalapeno burn to sub= side.=0A=0AOk, for your program effort, just do it. There is no reward for= our work.=0A=0AReally, as a 40 plus year professor, I can say this is the= ... way to confusion and and depression. Just try to work for your best i= nterests.=0A=0AThis year my only reward as a teacher was a letter from a p= arent. Otherwise, the salary is being reduced (University of Georgia Syste= m) and even the parking fee is going up.=0A=0AAll we have is each other.=0A= =0ADavid =EF=BB=BF=0A=0ADavid W. Seaman, Ph.D.=0Ahttp://personal.georgiaso= uthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html=0A=0AFollow my Twitter poetry at dseaman4= 0=0A=0AYouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: =0Ahttp://www.youtube.com= /watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 27 Jul, 2010,at 01:31 PM, David= Hadbawnik wrote:=0A=0A> p.s. -- with regards to th= e question of higher education=0A>=0A> i came to the decision to apply to = an MFA program while auditing tom clark's=0A> grad class at new college, f= rustrated by my inability to keep up with the=0A> work due to my two part-= time gigs. i considered going to new college --=0A> bullet dodged there! -= - and wound up at texas state because they offered me=0A> the best deal. p= urely mercenary. no apologies. there were certain specific=0A> things i wa= nted to study and work on in my poetry, and the stubborn=0A> midwestern bo= y in me did not see the point of going into debt to do that.=0A> while the= re, there were things i was unhappy with and i spoke up about them,=0A> of= ten to the chagrin of tom and other higher-ups.=0A>=0A> the phd is a diffe= rent beast, as you know. nevertheless, ub offered me a=0A> good deal, agai= n, and i felt that the blue state public university system=0A> would be mo= re congenial to my own sensibilities and beliefs and ability to=0A> impact= things through action. so i am the union rep for the department and=0A> i= 'm pretty active in the various ways open to grad students. we are=0A> str= uggling with not only budget cuts and a devastated state revenue, but the=0A= > administration's proposed response to that, which is to essentially REMO= VE=0A> u.b. from the SUNY system -- privatize it, and with that a free han= d in=0A> raising tuition for already strapped students.=0A>=0A> and, as wi= th others who come to the poetics program, i felt that here would=0A> be a= vital place for my press and poetry to grow. what i'm saying is that=0A> = this is an exchange. i have no illusions about that. i'm here to get certa= in=0A> things, i'm offering my energy and labor, i'm trying to make it a w= orthwhile=0A> encounter for my students. i look at rich owens and his BALL= ADS project,=0A> e.g., [not to mention punch press which has already been = covered previously]=0A> and i see a valuable roadmap for how i want to do = this. that is, already=0A> having certain poetic concerns, he's grounded t= hose in careful study of=0A> theory and primary texts which has helped tha= t project flower into something=0A> which, i'm not embarrassed nor hesitan= t to say, will prove to be some of the=0A> more interesting work being don= e at this time.=0A>=0A> that's why I'M here and i wouldn't be here if i di= dn't believe that, flawed=0A> though it may be, the higher ed. system didn= 't have something of value to=0A> offer and i, through it, something of va= lue to offer in return.=0A>=0A> sincerely,=0A>=0A> d=0A>=0A> On Tue, Jul 2= 7, 2010 at 11:21 AM, David Hadbawnik wrote:=0A>=0A> = > hello, cj!=0A> >=0A> > extreme, yes. evangelical? god, i hope not. insin= cere? i see how it could=0A> > seem so, but again, no.=0A> >=0A> > i feel = like something IS being misunderstood here, to a certain extent.=0A> > per= haps on both sides, i dunno. my feeling is not that getting top-down=0A> >= funding of any sort -- be that institutional or sliding-scale subscriptio= n,=0A> > or outright calls for donations from rich friends or relatives --= is pure as=0A> > the driven snow. far from it. but if i am able to channe= l funds from a=0A> > certain source and put that to the service of printin= g poems and b-sides and=0A> > chaps, meanwhile throwing business to local = printers and places like boxcar=0A> > press, i do feel like that's categor= ically different than the contest model,=0A> > which is based on growth (a= lways got to build up and get more entries), and=0A> > as has already been= said, soliciting funds from hundreds of poets who do not=0A> > have a cha= nce at winning and are not going to get a full or fair read. i=0A> > just = do.=0A> >=0A> > but as i state in my blog post, i started habenicht in 200= 0. at that time i=0A> > worked various part-time jobs and everything came = from my own dime. i=0A> > created a budget and determined this is how much= i can spend on that book,=0A> > and i hustled to sell enough books to bre= ak even, more or less. now that=0A> > i've cut my teeth doing that, the fu= nding i receive to help with kadar koli=0A> > allows me to do a SLIGHTLY l= arger journal, with a SLIGHTLY larger print run.=0A> > i am about to take = two boxes to the post office and this will go out=0A> > entirely from my p= ocket. but here, i feel like, we're getting into=0A> > gradations of purit= y, which was not the point at all.=0A> >=0A> > to me, the point is simply = to LOOK AROUND at the landscape and determine=0A> > what is acceptable to = you or not, as a poet, as a publisher, as a person=0A> > involved with poe= try at whatever level. the reason the intervention took=0A> > place here (= and on my blog) is that these are (virtual) spaces that such=0A> > people = frequent. it's not a drive-by just meant to stir things up. in the=0A> > s= ense of spurring this discussion, which has already been both passionate=0A= > > and nuanced without devolving into mindless flaming, it's already been= =0A> > successful in my book. it has certainly made me rethink some of my = heated=0A> > rhetoric and extreme views -- though i doubt that for me pers= onally those=0A> > views will change, i understand better where folks are = coming from -- and=0A> > hopefully for others it's done the same. but agai= n, look around and decide=0A> > this is that i want from the poetry publis= hing world, this is what i don't=0A> > want. and how can i change that? wh= at could be done differently? the=0A> > remarkable success of dos press in= concert with LRL would certainly seem to=0A> > be a model that i find adm= irable.=0A> >=0A> > in that sense i feel like we are trying to multitask, = though perhaps in a=0A> > different sense than you mean -- as alongside th= ese discussions are other=0A> > discussions and i am constantly thinking a= bout the next phase of what all=0A> > this means in terms of action...=0A>= >=0A> > sincerely,=0A> >=0A> > david=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> >=0A> > On Mon= , Jul 26, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Little Red Leaves <=0A> > littleredleaves@gmai= l.com> wrote:=0A> >=0A> >> Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know= of your public presence in=0A> >> the past week: a massive launch from DT= C/Punch Press (a piece of mail for=0A> >> which I'm *incredibly* grateful-= -holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!) &=0A> >> your=0A> >> intervention he= re. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that *very*=0A> >> success= fully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one of=0A> >> th= e=0A> >> alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second,= as=0A> >> tactic,=0A> >> is thus far just a random belligerence, as far a= s I can tell, even though=0A> >> I=0A> >> understand that you & some other= s here don't think so. At least in its=0A> >> basic=0A> >> spirit anyhow.=0A= > >>=0A> >> I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get so= me work done=0A> >> before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying= to get back to=0A> >> writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Bla= u Duplessis--two poets=0A> >> (among many) whose work would be virtually s= tranded by the action you call=0A> >> for, unless I've somehow misundersto= od your call. If I have misunderstood=0A> >> it, then *please* clarify--ar= e you asking us to walk away from any press=0A> >> who=0A> >> runs a conte= st or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our work,=0A> >> our r= eviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv drive-by's,=0A> = >> what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, he= re.=0A> >> If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarif= y.)=0A> >>=0A> >> I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously = revisit the=0A> >> question=0A> >> of whether this type of absolutism can = really be practiced from within the=0A> >> funded halls of a PhD program, = *while collecting a paycheck for teaching=0A> >> undergraduate students wh= o are largely going into hock to pay for their=0A> >> ticket for that ride= *. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.) I=0A> >> fully understa= nd your "top-down" theory about contests (that institutional=0A> >> fundin= g--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship,=0A> >> right?= )--is less questionable than the contest model because it supposedly=0A> >= > doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv &=0A= > >> UB's=0A> >> dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a= bit reductive)=0A> >> here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of y= ourselves for accepting=0A> >> that funding & using it in your small press= activities--I think the=0A> >> oppositein fact--but your call to action (= or the way you've chosen to=0A> >> articulate it?=0A> >> here & in David's= blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical &=0A> >> even=0A> >> i= nsincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're=0A> >> = wanting=0A> >> to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model fundin= g particularly=0A> >> for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guy= s: analyze, then. &=0A> >> proceed w/caution before moving into your tacti= cal phase.=0A> >>=0A> >> As someone you & David have both published & as s= omeone who's published=0A> >> both=0A> >> of you, I need you (both) to kno= w I'm saying this out of affection,=0A> >> respect=0A> >> & concern. (I ho= pe it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I=0A> >> wouldn't have= joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a number of=0A> >> other = things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to capital,=0A> >>= that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's based i= n=0A> >> haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliati= on) comes=0A> >> to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my= support in doing=0A> >> the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we = can multi-task?=0A> >>=0A> >> Yours,=0A> >> CJ Martin=0A> >>=0A> >>=0A> >>= =0A> >> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly >> >wrote:=0A> >>=0A> >> > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently t= hrowing its first contest.=0A> >> >=0A> >> > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/= news.html=0A> >> >=0A> >> > So her= e we have an independent=0A> >> > cultural institution of long standing th= at has $1 rent, a mostly=0A> >> volunteer=0A> >> > staff, and trustees/boa= rd members who are not donors, not effectively=0A> >> > fundraising and gr= ant writing except from government -- although it is=0A> >> > possible tha= t they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers Digest=0A> >> or=0A> >= > > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money fr= om=0A> >> > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and works= hops both!=0A> >> --=0A> >> > but they could charge for some classes like = the Poetry Project does),=0A> >> the=0A> >> > bookstore (by doing things l= ike not asking local presses for donations=0A> >> of=0A> >> > remaindered = books or local poets for donations of used books; by not=0A> >> > selling=0A= > >> > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first= =0A> >> > editions=0A> >> > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the = art gallery, the=0A> >> > readings/performances themselves, relationships = with other arts=0A> >> > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of= the books in print on=0A> >> > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on t= he site -- they are at SPD).=0A> >> >=0A> >> > Nope, they're having a cont= est.=0A> >> >=0A> >> > --=0A> >> > All best,=0A> >> > Catherine Daly=0A> >= > > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com=0A> >> >=0A> >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> = >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check=0A> = >> guidelines=0A> >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/we= lcome.html=0A> >> >=0A> >>=0A> >>=0A> >>=0A> >> --=0A> >> www.littleredlea= ves.com=0A> >> www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com=0A> >>=0A> >> =3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0A> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not acce= pt all posts. Check=0A> >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo= edu/poetics/welcome.html=0A> >>=0A> >=0A> >=0A>=0A> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=0A> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Chec= k guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html= =0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:40:19 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Chirot Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <371324.72377.qm@web52402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 a little side note: (re Grenier/Trakl/Wittgenstein) Robert Grenier early in his writing life translated a few (four or more) poems of Trakl's for an anthology-- Grenier has by some been considered as a mystic; by far his greatest philosophical interest/influence is Heidegger-- In "I HATE SPEECH"--One might consider the context, the time period-- on the one hand, the speech driven poetics of Projective Verse and many aspectsof Black Mountain, of the new York School-- as well as it being a time period swamped in SPEECHES-- coming from al directions and all media-- living and teaching in Franconia, NH, Grenier, while doing his daily running as well as sitting and listeing intently for hours to the sound of water dripping in a cistern--and to recordings of Pygmy music & sounds-- one finds Grenier developing his ear ever more acutely attuned to the smallest particles of both speech as SOUND and as sign-- the variety of ways in which for years his works have been published/presented, with an emphasis on the physical/visual/sonic structure literally and literarily of the Book-- taking it apart, putting it back togther in another from--whether as huge poster as la M'ASS AVE or box as in SENTENCES and also the three parts black box encased series of visual/verbl poems put out by by O Books ("Minnestoa" etc--)-- and the varying sizes and shapes of other tests-- culminating in the huge serial works done in "lawyer's office "color markers-- in a Talk given at the Robert frost Room at Franconia--published in the late 90's--(forgive mne for a moment here the editor/publisher escapes me--wil come back: Stephen Dignazio--)-- Grenier notes that an interesting question to investigate is the conjunction between among, "only the imagination is real" of WCW's Spring and All and the "no ideas but in things/Mr" of Paterson-- to think on /with these as a both/and rather than the usual "either/or"-- to find ways in which there is an identification of the word and thing, then the letter and thing--so that the forming of a letter itself handwritten in time--is an emergence/appearance of sound & image simulateneously--at the same time as they are both physical things in action-- Olson wanted the citizen to go faster, faster--so that one thing follows on another--the action of the poem essaying to "pull even, " equal, that is, to the real itself"--with the action-- no more of the Aristotelian "after the fact" of writing following the action, behind it-- but--drawing even, so that action/writing take place as nearly as possible simultaenously-- Rimbaud already in the "Lettres du voyant" to Demeny and izambard in 1870--had written of the poetry of the Future "preceding the action" which i have written on as being carried out literally/literarily by Rimbaud in that his writings precede in their descriptions, images, words--the actions which he began to live out after he stopped writing-- how many of his letters when no longer a poet carry the very images he has written of years earlier as Poetry & Prose Poetry----and now writes simply as bald description factual documents-- Rimbaud also wrote of the poet of the Future (also greatly effected by the total ful emancipation of Women)--as being "not unlike the Greek"-- one notes in Grenier's studies of Heidegger the many essays re Greek thought and poetry -- the trajectory of Grenier , his works, for some long time black listed by his former colleagues in the 'Language-centered" writing "community"-- has been one of far more radically "outside" work & life than those of his peers, in formal and philosophical, sonic/visual/visceral work-- Grenier's long involvements with the texts of the early Stein (which he was teaching at Franconia--as the "Yale Stein" became available)--as well as his studies singly, as teacher and in a reading group including Leslie Scalapino--in Whitman--the versionsof Leaves of Grass culminating esp in The Deathbed Edition--link him with the early modernism of WCW and the early Stein--as wel as the 19th century Whitman--whose work was not a "once and for all " "set in stone" text but an ongoing series of versions, alterations, rearrangements, additions, subtractions, changes in names, spellings, grammar, syntax-- (SERIES after al is the title of a Grenier book)-- i wd agree with many that MOBY DICK is a postmodernist so to speak text --and i wd include the work of E A Poe as well-- D H Lawrence in his STUDIES IN CLASSIC AMERICAN LITERATURE (which pre-dates WCW's In the American Grain)--notes a number of times that the Americans have relegated their classic works, in the "old American art speech"--to the nursery--"adventure stories, : :detective tales," science-fictions stories," etc etc--the Classic American texts dealt with issues, ideas, images, which the 20th century American, according to Lawrence, has to banish--to the nursery!-- "the pure products of America go crazy" as WCW noted-- "out there"--("the figure of Outward")--though, one might say, is the as yet hidden in plain site/sight/cite "classic american" outsider/avant-garde postmodern etc-- ("where the 'outyard" is the 'backyard' to paraphrase from Grenier's little work on Narrative for the old Olson series--) "The blank and ruin we see in Nature may be within our own eye"--(R W Emerson) "The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion/at random"--Heraclitus "To shut the eyes is travel"--Emily Dickinson "My voice goes after/what my eyes can't reach"--Walter Whitman "Writing is time travel"--W S Burroughs "It is a science-fiction film set in the past"--Federico Fellini, on his SATYRICON- ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 20:44:31 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: new from above/ground press: Marilyn Irwin's for when you pick daisies humidex i am drunk off your scent steam lingers august mist bee sting bug itch sparks stream from cigarettes casualties of war fuse into fire escape shift of sand sift feather breath kiss whispers expose soap scum scars freckles there that curve like pisces for when you pick daisies Marilyn Irwin $4 published in Ottawa by above/ground press in an edition of 200 copies, July 2010 a/g subscribers receive a complimentary copy to order, send cheques (add $1 for postage; outside Canada, $2) c/o rob mclennan, 858 Somerset Street West, main floor, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 Originally published in a private edition by the author in an edition of 22 copies for a night above/ground poetry reading (with poets Cameron Anstee and Marcus McCann), lovingly hosted by rob mclennan at the Carleton Tavern, Ottawa, Ontario on July 16, 2010. A recent graduate of the Winter 2010 edition of rob mclennans seasonal poetry workshops and forthcoming graduate of Algonquins Creative Writing program, Marilyn Irwin can be seen (mostly) and heard (less) in and around the multi-faceted poetry scene of Ottawa. http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2010/07/new-from-aboveground-press-marilyn.html -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:23:30 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Baratier Subject: Re: on poetry contests In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii We have a contest as one of many measures to distribute books, these are first books by people who become somewhat famous in terms of poetry. But, its poetry, and of course, this fame is limited. As the authors become more famous we sell more books. I feel no guilt about the authors we have given accolades to, some of the better known names we published first collections and given large audience to have included--- Joshua Cory Gordon Massman Amy King Will Alexander Julie Otten Rodney Koeneke Christopher Arigo Sophia Starnes Steve Davenport Chris Stroffolino Tony Gloggler Joshua McKinney Mary Weems Dan Zimmerman that is who comes to mind, there are more, nearly all sold out and in others hands. What use is poetry but to be read? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press 321 Empire Street Montpelier OH 43543 http://pavementsaw.org Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:56:17 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. > > "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is > no > value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." > > Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he > pays lip > service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he > condescends to it > and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk > "meaningfully" > about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing > becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." > On a > grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who > looks for > the key under the light because that's where the light is, not > necessarily > where the key is? I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a tautology. But I'm not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, as I don't think it's particularly useful except as an example of where he was coming from in his later more compelling world. There are huge flaws in the tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous "whereof we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank Ramsey's translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't whistle it either." To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit of that, and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of uselessness of the actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying that the tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once you climbed to the top. > > Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the > sense > of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it > is and > happens as it does happen." On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at all. In fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost dismissive of that part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. It just isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are more fruitful. > Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the > English > syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the > syntax > for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are > true) or > don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly > as the > paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are sentences that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted section deals with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to facts, what facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because this notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from Russell and Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals of Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of sentences in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's part of what the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts of the world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity apply, and there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a wider range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider part of that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that there are a wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and senselessness. I don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that it's a mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow decisive about the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of Philosophical Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. > Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with > conjunctive > forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the > agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the > process of > emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but > as > process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally > different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a "subject- > predicate" > construction is only a part. > > "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all > happening > and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise > this > would again be accidental. > > It must lie outside the world." > > Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical > skepticism > about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental > philosophy > (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's defined "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The world is everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he rejects later in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend it. But it isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ ought problem per se, but rather I think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" themselves. It's not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just that, but rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful things about moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably disavow as not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd say is "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the statement that there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement that there are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're even trying to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it from a different angle." Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I quoted doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for by Cora Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were all sorts of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to show the things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never addresses CS Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly certain he must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey thought that there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems to draw, and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style pragmatism in his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, and it's hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as anything other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard Rorty thought it was. My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was a theory of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to say things about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of human life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why I think he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain kinds of nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you should be able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're talking about them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we reflect on what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have know way of knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. As such, this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical position, and indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. > "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." > > Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions and not sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok with the idea of ethical signifiers. > "Propositions cannot express anything higher." > > Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure > having > any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, > subject-predicate structure. > > This is a priori assumption on W's part having > to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the > state > state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere > abstraction > from it. > I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without it referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the object. You don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you could give me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false without having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're getting at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems tautological. > > "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be > expressed in > language." > > It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more > specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of > translation), you > are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial > importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on > disintegration, fragmentation, etc. but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the limits of language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what can and can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be expressable in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking about what it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is understood as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on intention toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow wittgenstein into a severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at all clear what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses various words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, bread is pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is chapati is ... ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of god? a privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway similar to the private object in the mind of another party to the conversation? really? but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say "bread!" do i really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, not really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to swallow. same word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this bread is excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what Wittgenstein is concerned with. > "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so > to speak > wax or wane as a whole. > > The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." > > W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure what you mean he ignores them? > "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." > > This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the > universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics > (unless I misunderstand him). > I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific reasoning, without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with special relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was founded (which is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). > > "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its > contemplation > as a limited whole. > > The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical > feeling." > > That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. > Benjamin is all > for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He > points > us to an outline of "a structure of escape." > > "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer > to > Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large > number of > casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the > limits of > the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a > sort of > nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a > statement > about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are > incapable of > having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful > about > it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that > part of > human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, > spirituality, > faith, and religion." > > That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my > opinion > rebuts him. I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. Wittgenstein doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of speaking and new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in the remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject though is the notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language that is possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness and uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's how language actually gets used most of the time unless you start getting caught up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing a limit not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. Now, I'm not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where he draws the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is more an epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical one). but i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line was drawn, in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different reasons, there is an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and describe with meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that reason, that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry is both capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of communion with each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the same way that we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." > > "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i > was maybe > being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I > have a > hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but > they're a > little too important to me personally to allow for the outright > materialism > that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just > some > sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I > don't much > care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is > suspicious of > the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort > of > irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality > of > writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for > example, I > feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's > going on, > at least as it strikes me." > > I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, > but I > think one should call a spade a spade. Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the Author and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I don't care what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my reading The Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self-consciously suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. (Although on that point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in blazevox a few years ago and can be read here for the curious: http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. -Jason ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 00:59:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <5C5879895C004FB7A9E2E14FB476A999@OwnerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) just going to chime in with my usual response to this statement that i think he understood godel fine, i think he got the better of turing in their debates, and that his view of what mathematics are is much closer to what's probably right than Godel's weird platonism. but Jim, you and I can probably go around and around about this for the rest of a transfinite number of years and never resolve it. not that that wouldn't be fun... On Jul 27, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Jim Andrews wrote: > Wittgenstein is of much more interest to artists and possibly > philosophers than he is to logicians and mathematicians. He didn't > even understand Godel's work, thought that the subject matter of > Godel's work was not amenable to logic, thought that because it > involved the self-referential that it was as inevitably flawed as > much of the rest of the logic involving self-reference. He read the > most significant work in mathematical logic of his day and dismissed > it as nonsense. > > It seems he didn't think we could say much of real value about most > interersting things. So he didn't really go for it the way Godel did. > > Yu gotta at least go for it. > > Wittgenstein went for it as a writer, as a kind of philosophical > poet. Not as a logician. > > He was a rich guy who gave it all away. That's pretty cool. But he > was insignificant and even regressive as a logician. He missed the > big boat of his time, the boat that Godel 'started'. That grew into > Turing's boat and has sailed into now as the entirety of computing > and all that has meant in so many fields. > > ja > http://vispo.com > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:17:58 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Little Red Leaves Subject: Re: 2010 Subito Press Book Competition In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Rich & David H--Sorry not to have checked in on this yesterday, as I'd have wanted immediately to apologize for not clarifying that I meant no personal attack by that last msg. In particular, I'm deeply sorry that I made it seem like I was suggesting some kind of dubious connection between the DTC launch and this thread---honestly, it never crossed my mind, but looking back I see how it could be taken this way. In another context maybe you'd have given me the benefit of the doubt on this, but this virtuality tends to lift the bile---I should have accounted for that and drafted accordingly, cautiously. Otherwise, yeah: deadlock. Onwards, C On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 8:32 PM, David Seaman wrote: > Important message first: It takes about 3 hours for a jalapeno burn to > subside. > > Ok, for your program effort, just do it. There is no reward for our work. > > Really, as a 40 plus year professor, I can say this is the ... way to > confusion and and depression. Just try to work for your best interests. > > This year my only reward as a teacher was a letter from a parent. > Otherwise, the salary is being reduced (University of Georgia System) and > even the parking fee is going up. > > All we have is each other. > > David =EF=BB=BF > > > David W. Seaman, Ph.D. > http://personal.georgiasouthern.edu/~dseaman/Welcome.html > > Follow my Twitter poetry at dseaman40 > > YouTube video of my Venice Biennale poem: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJQ5bOuJBN_k > > > > > > On 27 Jul, 2010,at 01:31 PM, David Hadbawnik wrote= : > > p.s. -- with regards to the question of higher education >> >> i came to the decision to apply to an MFA program while auditing tom >> clark's >> grad class at new college, frustrated by my inability to keep up with th= e >> work due to my two part-time gigs. i considered going to new college -- >> bullet dodged there! -- and wound up at texas state because they offered >> me >> the best deal. purely mercenary. no apologies. there were certain specif= ic >> things i wanted to study and work on in my poetry, and the stubborn >> midwestern boy in me did not see the point of going into debt to do that= . >> while there, there were things i was unhappy with and i spoke up about >> them, >> often to the chagrin of tom and other higher-ups. >> >> the phd is a different beast, as you know. nevertheless, ub offered me a >> good deal, again, and i felt that the blue state public university syste= m >> would be more congenial to my own sensibilities and beliefs and ability = to >> impact things through action. so i am the union rep for the department a= nd >> i'm pretty active in the various ways open to grad students. we are >> struggling with not only budget cuts and a devastated state revenue, but >> the >> administration's proposed response to that, which is to essentially REMO= VE >> u.b. from the SUNY system -- privatize it, and with that a free hand in >> raising tuition for already strapped students. >> >> and, as with others who come to the poetics program, i felt that here >> would >> be a vital place for my press and poetry to grow. what i'm saying is tha= t >> this is an exchange. i have no illusions about that. i'm here to get >> certain >> things, i'm offering my energy and labor, i'm trying to make it a >> worthwhile >> encounter for my students. i look at rich owens and his BALLADS project, >> e.g., [not to mention punch press which has already been covered >> previously] >> and i see a valuable roadmap for how i want to do this. that is, already >> having certain poetic concerns, he's grounded those in careful study of >> theory and primary texts which has helped that project flower into >> something >> which, i'm not embarrassed nor hesitant to say, will prove to be some of >> the >> more interesting work being done at this time. >> >> that's why I'M here and i wouldn't be here if i didn't believe that, >> flawed >> though it may be, the higher ed. system didn't have something of value t= o >> offer and i, through it, something of value to offer in return. >> >> sincerely, >> >> d >> >> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, David Hadbawnik > >wrote: >> >> > hello, cj! >> > >> > extreme, yes. evangelical? god, i hope not. insincere? i see how it >> could >> > seem so, but again, no. >> > >> > i feel like something IS being misunderstood here, to a certain extent= . >> > perhaps on both sides, i dunno. my feeling is not that getting top-dow= n >> > funding of any sort -- be that institutional or sliding-scale >> subscription, >> > or outright calls for donations from rich friends or relatives -- is >> pure as >> > the driven snow. far from it. but if i am able to channel funds from a >> > certain source and put that to the service of printing poems and b-sid= es >> and >> > chaps, meanwhile throwing business to local printers and places like >> boxcar >> > press, i do feel like that's categorically different than the contest >> model, >> > which is based on growth (always got to build up and get more entries)= , >> and >> > as has already been said, soliciting funds from hundreds of poets who = do >> not >> > have a chance at winning and are not going to get a full or fair read.= i >> > just do. >> > >> > but as i state in my blog post, i started habenicht in 2000. at that >> time i >> > worked various part-time jobs and everything came from my own dime. i >> > created a budget and determined this is how much i can spend on that >> book, >> > and i hustled to sell enough books to break even, more or less. now th= at >> > i've cut my teeth doing that, the funding i receive to help with kadar >> koli >> > allows me to do a SLIGHTLY larger journal, with a SLIGHTLY larger prin= t >> run. >> > i am about to take two boxes to the post office and this will go out >> > entirely from my pocket. but here, i feel like, we're getting into >> > gradations of purity, which was not the point at all. >> > >> > to me, the point is simply to LOOK AROUND at the landscape and determi= ne >> > what is acceptable to you or not, as a poet, as a publisher, as a pers= on >> > involved with poetry at whatever level. the reason the intervention to= ok >> > place here (and on my blog) is that these are (virtual) spaces that su= ch >> > people frequent. it's not a drive-by just meant to stir things up. in >> the >> > sense of spurring this discussion, which has already been both >> passionate >> > and nuanced without devolving into mindless flaming, it's already been >> > successful in my book. it has certainly made me rethink some of my >> heated >> > rhetoric and extreme views -- though i doubt that for me personally >> those >> > views will change, i understand better where folks are coming from -- >> and >> > hopefully for others it's done the same. but again, look around and >> decide >> > this is that i want from the poetry publishing world, this is what i >> don't >> > want. and how can i change that? what could be done differently? the >> > remarkable success of dos press in concert with LRL would certainly se= em >> to >> > be a model that i find admirable. >> > >> > in that sense i feel like we are trying to multitask, though perhaps i= n >> a >> > different sense than you mean -- as alongside these discussions are >> other >> > discussions and i am constantly thinking about the next phase of what >> all >> > this means in terms of action... >> > >> > sincerely, >> > >> > david >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:37 PM, Little Red Leaves < >> > littleredleaves@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> >> Dear Rich--At this distance, here's what I know of your public presen= ce >> in >> >> the past week: a massive launch from DTC/Punch Press (a piece of mail >> for >> >> which I'm *incredibly* grateful--holy shit the Marianne Morris poem!)= & >> >> your >> >> intervention here. The first of these (the launch) is a tactic that >> *very* >> >> successfully addresses the concerns you want to address & offers one = of >> >> the >> >> alternative models that Tyrone asked you to speak to. The second, as >> >> tactic, >> >> is thus far just a random belligerence, as far as I can tell, even >> though >> >> I >> >> understand that you & some others here don't think so. At least in it= s >> >> basic >> >> spirit anyhow. >> >> >> >> I actually need to duck out of this thread for awhile & get some work >> done >> >> before the semester starts back up. Desperately trying to get back to >> >> writing a longer thing on Myung Mi Kim & Rachel Blau Duplessis--two >> poets >> >> (among many) whose work would be virtually stranded by the action you >> call >> >> for, unless I've somehow misunderstood your call. If I have >> misunderstood >> >> it, then *please* clarify--are you asking us to walk away from any >> press >> >> who >> >> runs a contest or charges a reading fee (taking w/us our money, our >> work, >> >> our reviews, our venues, etc)? I mean, in addition to listserv >> drive-by's, >> >> what's to be done that isn't already being done? (I'm really asking, >> here. >> >> If I'm missing what the *action* is, I'd like someone to clarify.) >> >> >> >> I also want to ask you (& David--hi David) to seriously revisit the >> >> question >> >> of whether this type of absolutism can really be practiced from withi= n >> the >> >> funded halls of a PhD program, *while collecting a paycheck for >> teaching >> >> undergraduate students who are largely going into hock to pay for the= ir >> >> ticket for that ride*. (I know it isn't making you rich, but come on.= ) >> I >> >> fully understand your "top-down" theory about contests (that >> institutional >> >> funding--in the form of a grant for a press (or even a fellowship, >> >> right?)--is less questionable than the contest model because it >> supposedly >> >> doesn't prey on vulnerable writers), but honestly: it's UB's listserv= & >> >> UB's >> >> dime you're posting on. I'm being blunt (and maybe even a bit >> reductive) >> >> here NOT because I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for >> accepting >> >> that funding & using it in your small press activities--I think the >> >> oppositein fact--but your call to action (or the way you've chosen to >> >> articulate it? >> >> here & in David's blog post) starts to seem not a little evangelical = & >> >> even >> >> insincere. Professionalization in the arts is *exactly* what you're >> >> wanting >> >> to confront, right (using a refusal of contest-model funding >> particularly >> >> for *small* presses as the staging ground)? Shit guys: analyze, then.= & >> >> proceed w/caution before moving into your tactical phase. >> >> >> >> As someone you & David have both published & as someone who's publish= ed >> >> both >> >> of you, I need you (both) to know I'm saying this out of affection, >> >> respect >> >> & concern. (I hope it's not necessary to say it, but in case it is--I >> >> wouldn't have joined in here if that weren't true.) There are a numbe= r >> of >> >> other things to resist or struggle to complicate, in addition to >> capital, >> >> that mingle with our thing: a model for community building that's bas= ed >> in >> >> haphazard antagonism (largely towards, I begin to fear, affiliation) >> comes >> >> to mind, for a start. That's not to say you don't have my support in >> doing >> >> the work of problematizing capital, but maybe we can multi-task? >> >> >> >> Yours, >> >> CJ Martin >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Catherine Daly > >> >wrote: >> >> >> >> > Sad news, Beyond Baroque is currently throwing its first contest. >> >> > >> >> > http://www.beyondbaroque.org/news.html >> >> > >> >> > So here we have an >> independent >> >> > cultural institution of long standing that has $1 rent, a mostly >> >> volunteer >> >> > staff, and trustees/board members who are not donors, not effective= ly >> >> > fundraising and grant writing except from government -- although it >> is >> >> > possible that they are refusing to apply for funds from Readers >> Digest >> >> or >> >> > the Irvine Foundation, etc. etc. -- that also refuses to make money >> from >> >> > workshops (they are famous for offering free showers and workshops >> both! >> >> -- >> >> > but they could charge for some classes like the Poetry Project does= ), >> >> the >> >> > bookstore (by doing things like not asking local presses for >> donations >> >> of >> >> > remaindered books or local poets for donations of used books; by no= t >> >> > selling >> >> > books online; by not looking up the value of some of the rare first >> >> > editions >> >> > that linger on the shelves), the archive, the art gallery, the >> >> > readings/performances themselves, relationships with other arts >> >> > institutions, or the press (by not listing all of the books in prin= t >> on >> >> > Amazon; by having broken paypal links on the site -- they are at >> SPD). >> >> > >> >> > Nope, they're having a contest. >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > All best, >> >> > Catherine Daly >> >> > c.a.b.daly@gmail.com >> >> > >> >> > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> >> guidelines >> >> > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> www.littleredleaves.com >> >> www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: >> http://epc.buffaloedu/poetics/welcome.html >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > --=20 www.littleredleaves.com www.littleredleavesjournal.blogspot.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:16:58 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: new from above/ground press: rob mclennan's 16 Yonge * point on a point; discuss, map of scatter, eyes broadsheet about, Toronto Star, the Hemingway in you describes, pinwheels, skipper, sailing ships talk like a pirate day, your birthday, felt no sun, * Yonge + Queens Quay govern, nothing else disturbs, distillery, grandstand , emphasis against the year has been, unequal to place facts squared or squarely, in a book shape of a (shifting) harbour, 16 Yonge by rob mclennan $4 published in Ottawa by above/ground press in an edition of 200 copies, August 2010 a/g subscribers receive a complimentary copy to order, send cheques (add $1 for postage; outside Canada, $2) c/o rob mclennan, 858 Somerset Street West, main floor, Ottawa ON K1R 6R7 Born in Ottawa, Canadas glorious capital city, rob mclennan currently lives in Ottawa. The author of more than twenty trade books of poetry, fiction and non-fiction, his most recent titles are the poetry collections Glengarry (2011), wild horses (2010) and kate street (2010) and a second novel, missing persons (2009), An editor and publisher, he runs above/ground press, Chaudiere Books (with Jennifer Mulligan), The Garneau Review (ottawater.com/garneaureview), seventeen seconds: a journal of poetry and poetics (ottawater.com/seventeenseconds) and the Ottawa poetry pdf annual ottawater (ottawater.com). He spent the 2007-8 academic year in Edmonton as writer-in-residence at the University of Alberta, and expects to spend much of the next year in Toronto. He regularly posts reviews, essays, interviews and other notices at robmclennan.blogspot.com http://abovegroundpress.blogspot.com/2010/07/new-from-aboveground-press-rob.html -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:51:46 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jared Schickling Subject: New Book Announcement: Zero=?Windows-1252?Q?=92s_?= Blooming Excursion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List=2C =20 My new book=2C Zero=92s Blooming Excursion=2C realized over the course of three years and published last month=2C is available from BlazeVO= X [books]: =20 http://www.blazevox.org/bk-js4.htm =20 And at Small Press Distribution: =20 http://www.spdbooks.org/Producte/9781609640019/zeros-blooming-excursion.asp= x =20 I=92d also be happy to send along any free copies. If you'd like one=2C please let me know. =20 All best=2C =20 Jared Schickling jschickl@hotmail.com =20 =20 Zero=92s Blooming Excursion seems a trans-bifurcation of voice=2C some cacophonous unity of strange symbols=2C visual=2C aural=2C intellectual=2C collaborating in the emergence of something deeply spiritua= l: The awakened human mind dealing with the chaos=2C projecting the Arabesque patt= erns of its own movements. If one is to be literate in the realm of Zero=92s merged pineal glands=2C one must make sense of its seams=2C as much a paint= ing to make sense of (the repeated Chagall) or puzzle to construct (the chemistry = and mathematics) as a poem to read=2C a critifiction seducing its reader into numerous re-reads=2C each one producing different patterns and forms of pleasure=2C the very embodiment of Calvino=92s ideal of multiplicity. Biza= rro science=2C invisibility cloaking=2C numerology=2C Kabbala=2C lots of trivia= l news and obscure data (like patent backgrounds)=2C all add up to a paranoid yet vali= d approach to the cosmos which seems to subvert or counter its own overt nihilism. Schickling=92s book is a brilliant success. =97Chuck Richardson =20 Zero=92s Blooming Excursion has =93a hundred mouths=2C=94 and each mouth speaks at once. With combinatory precision=2C Schickling brings a redactive resonance to the face of the page. Erasures zero in on what=92s important. Headlines=2C statistics=2C equations=2C weather report= s=2C thought bubbles are more than frames. They are the forms of our common thinking. Reading Zero=92s Blooming Excursion is like hovering above one=92s own body while living=3B it=92s unsettling ecstasy. Read thi= s book and you=92ll =93find yourself next to yourself.=94 =97Sasha Steensen=20 =20 This is a book I had to struggle my way through. Often I wondered=2C what is going on here? Slowly it dawned on me: Jared Schickling has devised a poetics that oprates like an ecology. It is=2C among other qualities=2C indifferent to whether I understand it or not=97an= d the poems are no more concerned with what you or I think of them than rocks=2C = moss=2C lichen=2C yucca plants=2C or clouds care whether you admire their shapes or= scrape your knee on their sharp edges. I respect that. It=92s tough=2C bracing=2C and worth the effort. It may take years to catch up to where these poems are taking us. =97Andrew Schelling =20 =20 _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with H= otmail.=20 http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=3Dmulticalendar&ocid=3D= PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:59:00 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <0A49F062-EB4C-42F1-B5FB-76C52058A08E@uw.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jason, David, Jim, This thread has become so vast, in a very good way, so that I do not know how to respond to each (particularly to Jason's meticulous arguments), unless I spend a trans-finite portion of my day doing it, not that that would be a bad thing. Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I think there is more we agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My objection to him is in the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his effect on poetry and poetics in the United States. It narrows the possibilities of poetry, particularly the way Language School applied his ideas. Let me explain what I mean: a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the subject-predicate structure is not the only way a sentence can be constructed; but he delegates every other structure to second class by calling it "meaningless," unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I need to go back to the text and choose a few more words with the same rhetorical effect). But who has decided that the nature of *reality* consists (must express itself) as true or false and everything else is peripheral, secondary. That is a profound, unquestioned assumption on Wittgenstein's part the validity of which to me is much less clear -in fact, to be honest about it, is clearly "false." I am more on the side of what Heraclitus says and David quotes: ""The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion/at random." We see truth, if at all, through a glass darkly, which also constantly changes, is fluid. "Factual," "ethical," "pilosophical," even "scientific" values blur are very rarely distinct (a clear demarcation between objective and subjective basically impossible), and to build a reality structure on a fundementalist distinction between true and false (which W. does by privileging a prepositional view of what is real, as opposed to unsayable) is foolhardy. A poet's job, it seems to me, is exactly to deal with that unsayable -shall we consider ourselves to be dealing with nonsense or, as Language School or it follower Flarf does, indulging in language games or google games. I do not disagree that we are may be doomed (The Spiritual Life of Replicants deals with that issue) to grasp reality only through language -but that *does not mean* that we have to do it by entering only through one straight straight straight gate -the prepositional sentence. David, I think we agree in our view of Grenier. I was not aware Grenier's later work was blacklisted by Language School poets. At least they realized what he was getting at and his pursuit went awry from their approach to poetry. Ciao, Murat On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. > > > > >> "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world >> everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no >> value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." >> >> Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he pays >> lip >> service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends to >> it >> and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk >> "meaningfully" >> about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing >> becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a >> grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks >> for >> the key under the light because that's where the light is, not necessarily >> where the key is? >> > > I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a tautology. But I'm > not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, as I don't > think it's particularly useful except as an example of where he was coming > from in his later more compelling world. There are huge flaws in the > tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous "whereof > we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank Ramsey's > translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't whistle it > either." > > To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit of that, > and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of uselessness of the > actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying that the > tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once you climbed > to the top. > > > >> Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the sense >> of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is and >> happens as it does happen." >> > > On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at all. In > fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost dismissive of that > part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. It just > isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's > empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are more > fruitful. > > > Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the English >> syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the >> syntax >> for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are true) >> or >> don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as the >> paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. >> > > well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are sentences > that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted section deals > with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to facts, what > facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because this > notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from Russell and > Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals of > Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the > distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of sentences > in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's part of what > the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical > investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts of the > world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity apply, and > there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a wider > range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider part of > that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that there are a > wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and senselessness. I > don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that it's a > mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow decisive about > the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of Philosophical > Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. > > > Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive >> forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the >> agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process of >> emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as >> process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally >> different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a >> "subject-predicate" >> construction is only a part. >> >> "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening >> and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. >> What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this >> would again be accidental. >> >> It must lie outside the world." >> >> Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism >> about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy >> (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. >> > > Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's defined > "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The world is > everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he rejects later > in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend it. But it > isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ought problem per se, but rather I > think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" themselves. It's > not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just that, but > rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful things about > moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably disavow as > not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd say is > "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the statement that > there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement that there > are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're even trying > to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it from a > different angle." > > Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I quoted > doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for by Cora > Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were all sorts > of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to show the > things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never addresses CS > Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly certain he > must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey thought that > there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems to draw, > and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style pragmatism in > his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, and it's > hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as anything > other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard Rorty > thought it was. > > My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was a theory > of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to say things > about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of human > life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why I think > he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain kinds of > nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you should be > able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're talking about > them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we reflect on > what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have know way of > knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. As such, > this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical position, and > indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. > > > "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." >> >> Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. >> > > Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions and not > sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok with the > idea of ethical signifiers. > > > "Propositions cannot express anything higher." >> >> Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure >> having >> any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, >> subject-predicate structure. >> >> This is a priori assumption on W's part having >> to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the state >> state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere abstraction >> from it. >> >> I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without it > referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the object. You > don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you could give > me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false without > having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're getting > at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems tautological. > > > >> "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the >> limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed >> in >> language." >> >> It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more >> specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of translation), >> you >> are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial >> importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on >> disintegration, fragmentation, etc. >> > but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the limits of > language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what can and > can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be expressable > in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking about what > it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is understood > as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is > unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on intention > toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow wittgenstein into a > severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at all clear > what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses various > words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, bread is > pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is chapati is ... > ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of god? a > privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway similar to > the private object in the mind of another party to the conversation? really? > but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say "bread!" do i > really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, not > really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to swallow. same > word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this bread is > excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what Wittgenstein > is concerned with. > > > "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to >> speak >> wax or wane as a whole. >> >> The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." >> >> W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. >> > > On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure what you > mean he ignores them? > > > "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." >> >> This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the >> universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics >> (unless I misunderstand him). >> >> I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of > Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific reasoning, > without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with special > relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was founded (which > is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). > > > >> "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its >> contemplation >> as a limited whole. >> >> The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." >> >> That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin is >> all >> for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He >> points >> us to an outline of "a structure of escape." >> >> "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he >> returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to >> Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number of >> casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of >> the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort of >> nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a >> statement >> about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable of >> having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful about >> it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of >> human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, spirituality, >> faith, and religion." >> >> That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my opinion >> rebuts him. >> > > I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. Wittgenstein > doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of speaking and > new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in the > remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject though is the > notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language that is > possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness and > uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's how > language actually gets used most of the time unless you start getting caught > up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing a limit > not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. Now, I'm > not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where he draws > the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is more an > epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical one). but > i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line was drawn, > in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different reasons, there is > an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and describe with > meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that reason, > that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the > mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry is both > capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that > experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of communion with > each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the same way that > we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." > > >> "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was >> maybe >> being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a >> hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a >> little too important to me personally to allow for the outright >> materialism >> that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's >> largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some >> sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific >> criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't >> much >> care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious >> of >> the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of >> irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of >> writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, >> I >> feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going >> on, >> at least as it strikes me." >> >> I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but I >> think one should call a spade a spade. >> > > Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the Author > and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I don't care > what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my reading The > Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self-consciously > suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. (Although on that > point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in blazevox a few > years ago and can be read here for the curious: > http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) > > Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. > > -Jason > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:45:17 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Stephen Vincent Subject: New de blog Comments: To: UK POETRY Comments: cc: "Poetryetc: poetry and poetics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://stephenvincent.net/blog/ Some new stuff on blog may be of interest as in the poetry of the oblique:= =20 Towers & Columns: (Discussion & photos)=A0 Brancusi (Google!), Ann Hamilton= (Geyserville, California) & David Nash (at Yorkshire Sculpture Park, Yorks= hire). An exploration of sorts, and an extension of an earlier blog discuss= ion of Ellworth Kelly, Brancusi, the Mali Gazelle and the Paris Hotel shado= w.=20 An photo homage to Malevich,=A0 from the Neighborhood Anthropology Series. Haptic responses to readings/events by David Wolach, Kenny Goldsmith, Lawre= nce Kearney and Duncan McNaughton As always, your responses appreciated.=20 Stephen Vincetn =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 17:06:24 +0530 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: steve dalachinsky Subject: Re: on poetry contests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit wow i'm really out of the loop only heard of a coupla of these folks aand what does "somewhat famous" mean? On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 22:23:30 -0700 David Baratier writes: > We have a contest as one of many measures to distribute books, these > are first books by people who become somewhat famous in terms of > poetry. But, its poetry, and of course, this fame is limited. As the > authors become more famous we sell more books. I feel no guilt about > the authors we have given accolades to, some of the better known > names we published first collections and given large audience to > have included--- > > Joshua Cory > > Gordon Massman > > Amy King > > Will Alexander > > Julie Otten > > Rodney Koeneke > > Christopher Arigo > > Sophia Starnes > > Steve Davenport > > Chris Stroffolino > > Tony Gloggler > > Joshua McKinney > > Mary Weems > > Dan Zimmerman > > that is who comes to mind, there are more, nearly all sold out and > in others hands. What use is poetry but to be read? > > > > > Be well > > David Baratier, Editor > > Pavement Saw Press > 321 Empire Street > Montpelier OH 43543 > http://pavementsaw.org > > Subscribe to our e-mail listserv at > http://pavementsaw.org/list/?p=subscribe&id > > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: > http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:57:48 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Nic Sebastian Subject: Final Ten Questions on Poets and Technology: Eric Elshtain In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eric Elshtain responds this week to Ten Questions on Poets and Technology -= http://bit.ly/bkJCAo This series has now ended. Series' standing page: http://bit.ly/c0aBUb Best=2C Nic Nic Sebastianhttp://verylikeawhale.wordpress.com =20 The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox= . Get started. = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:52:18 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: David Kirschenbaum Subject: boston phoenix on boston poet tea party Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://thephoenix.com/boston/life/105988-marathon-man/?page=1#TOPCONTENT -- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W. 28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 For event and publication information: http://welcometoboogcity.com/ T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) To subscribe free to The December Podcast: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=343169880 For music from Gilmore boys: http://www.myspace.com/gilmoreboysmusic ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:45:57 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Douglas Manson Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 viva la differance um kenosis ut pictura. we're all pals here in the spacetime continuum. these are great threads. On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, David, Jim, > > This thread has become so vast, in a very good way, so that I do not know > how to respond to each (particularly to Jason's meticulous arguments), > unless I spend a trans-finite portion of my day doing it, not that that > would be a bad thing. > > Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I think there is more > we > agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My objection to him is in > the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his effect on poetry and > poetics in the United States. It narrows the possibilities of poetry, > particularly the way Language School applied his ideas. Let me explain what > I mean: > > a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the subject-predicate > structure is not the only way a sentence can be constructed; but he > delegates every other structure to second class by calling it > "meaningless," > unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I need to go back to the > text and choose a few more words with the same rhetorical effect). > > But who has decided that the nature of *reality* consists (must express > itself) as true or false and everything else is peripheral, secondary. That > is a profound, unquestioned assumption on Wittgenstein's part the validity > of which to me is much less clear -in fact, to be honest about it, is > clearly "false." > > I am more on the side of what Heraclitus says and David quotes: > ""The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion/at > random." > > We see truth, if at all, through a glass darkly, which also constantly > changes, is fluid. "Factual," "ethical," "pilosophical," even "scientific" > values blur are very rarely distinct (a clear demarcation between objective > and subjective basically impossible), and to build a reality structure on a > fundementalist distinction between true and false (which W. does by > privileging a prepositional view of what is real, as opposed to unsayable) > is foolhardy. A poet's job, it seems to me, is exactly to deal with that > unsayable -shall we consider ourselves to be dealing with nonsense or, as > Language School or it follower Flarf does, indulging in language games or > google games. > > I do not disagree that we are may be doomed (The Spiritual Life of > Replicants deals with that issue) to grasp reality only through language > -but that *does not mean* that we have to do it by entering only through > one > straight straight straight gate -the prepositional sentence. > > David, > I think we agree in our view of Grenier. I was not aware Grenier's later > work was blacklisted by Language School poets. At least they realized what > he was getting at and his pursuit went awry from their approach to poetry. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > > Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. > > > > > > > > > >> "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world > >> everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no > >> value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." > >> > >> Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he pays > >> lip > >> service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends to > >> it > >> and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk > >> "meaningfully" > >> about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing > >> becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a > >> grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks > >> for > >> the key under the light because that's where the light is, not > necessarily > >> where the key is? > >> > > > > I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a tautology. But > I'm > > not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, as I don't > > think it's particularly useful except as an example of where he was > coming > > from in his later more compelling world. There are huge flaws in the > > tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous > "whereof > > we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank Ramsey's > > translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't whistle it > > either." > > > > To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit of that, > > and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of uselessness of > the > > actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying that > the > > tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once you > climbed > > to the top. > > > > > > > >> Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the > sense > >> of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is > and > >> happens as it does happen." > >> > > > > On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at all. In > > fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost dismissive of > that > > part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. It > just > > isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's > > empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are more > > fruitful. > > > > > > Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the > English > >> syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the > >> syntax > >> for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are > true) > >> or > >> don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as > the > >> paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. > >> > > > > well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are sentences > > that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted section deals > > with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to facts, what > > facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because this > > notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from Russell and > > Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals of > > Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the > > distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of > sentences > > in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's part of > what > > the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical > > investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts of the > > world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity apply, and > > there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a wider > > range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider part of > > that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that there are a > > wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and senselessness. I > > don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that it's a > > mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow decisive > about > > the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of Philosophical > > Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. > > > > > > Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive > >> forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the > >> agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process of > >> emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as > >> process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally > >> different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a > >> "subject-predicate" > >> construction is only a part. > >> > >> "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all > happening > >> and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. > >> What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this > >> would again be accidental. > >> > >> It must lie outside the world." > >> > >> Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism > >> about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy > >> (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. > >> > > > > Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's defined > > "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The world > is > > everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he rejects > later > > in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend it. But > it > > isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ought problem per se, but rather I > > think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" themselves. > It's > > not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just that, > but > > rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful things > about > > moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably disavow > as > > not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd say is > > "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the statement > that > > there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement that > there > > are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're even > trying > > to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it from a > > different angle." > > > > Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I quoted > > doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for by Cora > > Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were all > sorts > > of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to show the > > things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never addresses CS > > Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly certain he > > must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey thought > that > > there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems to draw, > > and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style pragmatism in > > his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, and > it's > > hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as anything > > other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard Rorty > > thought it was. > > > > My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was a > theory > > of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to say > things > > about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of human > > life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why I > think > > he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain kinds > of > > nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you should > be > > able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're talking > about > > them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we reflect > on > > what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have know way > of > > knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. As > such, > > this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical position, and > > indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. > > > > > > "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." > >> > >> Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. > >> > > > > Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions and > not > > sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok with > the > > idea of ethical signifiers. > > > > > > "Propositions cannot express anything higher." > >> > >> Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure > >> having > >> any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, > >> subject-predicate structure. > >> > >> This is a priori assumption on W's part having > >> to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the state > >> state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere > abstraction > >> from it. > >> > >> I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without > it > > referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the object. > You > > don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you could > give > > me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false > without > > having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're > getting > > at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems > tautological. > > > > > > > >> "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the > >> limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed > >> in > >> language." > >> > >> It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more > >> specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of translation), > >> you > >> are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial > >> importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on > >> disintegration, fragmentation, etc. > >> > > but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the limits of > > language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what can and > > can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be > expressable > > in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking about > what > > it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is > understood > > as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is > > unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on > intention > > toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow wittgenstein into > a > > severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at all > clear > > what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses various > > words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, bread is > > pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is chapati is > ... > > ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of god? a > > privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway similar to > > the private object in the mind of another party to the conversation? > really? > > but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say "bread!" do i > > really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, not > > really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to swallow. same > > word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this bread is > > excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what > Wittgenstein > > is concerned with. > > > > > > "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to > >> speak > >> wax or wane as a whole. > >> > >> The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." > >> > >> W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. > >> > > > > On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure what > you > > mean he ignores them? > > > > > > "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." > >> > >> This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the > >> universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics > >> (unless I misunderstand him). > >> > >> I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of > > Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific reasoning, > > without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with special > > relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was founded > (which > > is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). > > > > > > > >> "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its > >> contemplation > >> as a limited whole. > >> > >> The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." > >> > >> That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin is > >> all > >> for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He > >> points > >> us to an outline of "a structure of escape." > >> > >> "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he > >> returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to > >> Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number > of > >> casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits > of > >> the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort > of > >> nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a > >> statement > >> about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable > of > >> having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful > about > >> it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part > of > >> human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, > spirituality, > >> faith, and religion." > >> > >> That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my > opinion > >> rebuts him. > >> > > > > I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. Wittgenstein > > doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of speaking > and > > new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in the > > remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject though is > the > > notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language that is > > possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness and > > uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's how > > language actually gets used most of the time unless you start getting > caught > > up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing a > limit > > not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. Now, I'm > > not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where he > draws > > the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is more an > > epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical one). > but > > i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line was > drawn, > > in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different reasons, there > is > > an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and describe > with > > meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that reason, > > that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the > > mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry is both > > capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that > > experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of communion > with > > each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the same way > that > > we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." > > > > > >> "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was > >> maybe > >> being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have > a > >> hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a > >> little too important to me personally to allow for the outright > >> materialism > >> that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's > >> largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some > >> sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific > >> criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't > >> much > >> care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is > suspicious > >> of > >> the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of > >> irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of > >> writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for > example, > >> I > >> feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going > >> on, > >> at least as it strikes me." > >> > >> I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but > I > >> think one should call a spade a spade. > >> > > > > Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the Author > > and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I don't > care > > what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my reading The > > Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self-consciously > > suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. (Although on > that > > point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in blazevox a > few > > years ago and can be read here for the curious: > > http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) > > > > Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. > > > > -Jason > > > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines > > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:13:42 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) marvelous david, thanks so much. there's a lot to chew on here, but I wanted to remark that for me at least, I think both the connection with Stein's early poetry so heavily laden with parataxis as it was and with Whitmans continual revision as a connection to refiguring the notion of the book, resonate with the sort of mysticism that I think i see in Grenier, something akin to text as process rather than product. this, in my thinking at least, connects up with a rather fruitless obsessive period i spent shortly after the publication of the complete Ted Berrigan trying to find correspondences to Alfred North Whitehead's process philosophy in his various mundane occasional poems (by which i mean the often repeated trope in his poetry of picking a day or a set of activities and memorializing them in a poem eg today in ann arbor, 10 things i do every day, memorial day, etc.). At the end of my researches which didn't bear much out, after I got over my disappointment in discovering the great organizing principle I thought i'd discovered in fact was my own misreading of Whitehead, i realized i'd been looking very much at the wrong thing and that the real process philosophy stuff had to do more with the way he was compasing things than with any underlying metaphysics. anyway, Berrigan also is a favorite spiritual master of mine, and what you're talking about in Grenier I think I see a bit in some of Berrigan as well. On Jul 27, 2010, at 9:40 PM, David Chirot wrote: > a little side note: (re Grenier/Trakl/Wittgenstein) > > Robert Grenier early in his writing life translated a few (four or > more) > poems of Trakl's for an anthology-- > > Grenier has by some been considered as a mystic; by far his greatest > philosophical interest/influence is Heidegger-- > > In "I HATE SPEECH"--One might consider the context, the time period-- > > on the one hand, the speech driven poetics of Projective Verse and > many > aspectsof Black Mountain, of the new York School-- > as well as it being a time period swamped in SPEECHES-- > coming from al directions and all media-- > > living and teaching in Franconia, NH, Grenier, while doing his daily > running > as well as sitting and listeing intently for hours to the sound of > water > dripping in a cistern--and to recordings of Pygmy music & sounds-- > > one finds Grenier developing his ear ever more acutely attuned to the > smallest particles of both speech as SOUND and as sign-- > the variety of ways in which for years his works have been > published/presented, with an emphasis on the physical/visual/sonic > structure > literally and literarily of the Book-- > taking it apart, putting it back togther in another from--whether as > huge > poster as la M'ASS AVE or box as in SENTENCES and also the three > parts > black box encased series of visual/verbl poems put out by by O Books > ("Minnestoa" etc--)-- > and the varying sizes and shapes of other tests-- > culminating in the huge serial works done in "lawyer's office "color > markers-- > > in a Talk given at the Robert frost Room at Franconia--published in > the late > 90's--(forgive mne for a moment here the editor/publisher escapes > me--wil > come back: Stephen Dignazio--)-- > > Grenier notes that an interesting question to investigate is the > conjunction > between among, "only the imagination is real" of WCW's Spring and > All and > the "no ideas but in things/Mr" of Paterson-- > > to think on /with these as a both/and rather than the usual "either/ > or"-- > > to find ways in which there is an identification of the word and > thing, then > the letter and thing--so that the forming of a letter itself > handwritten in > time--is an emergence/appearance of sound & image simulateneously-- > at the > same time as they are both physical things in action-- > > Olson wanted the citizen to go faster, faster--so that one thing > follows on > another--the action of the poem essaying to "pull even, " equal, > that is, to > the real itself"--with the action-- > > no more of the Aristotelian "after the fact" of writing following the > action, behind it-- > > but--drawing even, so that action/writing take place as nearly as > possible > simultaenously-- > > Rimbaud already in the "Lettres du voyant" to Demeny and izambard in > 1870--had written of the poetry of the Future "preceding the action" > > which i have written on as being carried out literally/literarily by > Rimbaud > in that his writings precede in their descriptions, images, words--the > actions which he began to live out after he stopped writing-- > > how many of his letters when no longer a poet carry the very images > he has > written of years earlier as Poetry & Prose Poetry----and now writes > simply > as bald description factual documents-- > > Rimbaud also wrote of the poet of the Future (also greatly effected > by the > total ful emancipation of Women)--as being "not unlike the Greek"-- > one notes in Grenier's studies of Heidegger the many essays re Greek > thought > and poetry -- > > the trajectory of Grenier , his works, for some long time black > listed by > his former colleagues in the 'Language-centered" writing "community"-- > > has been one of far more radically "outside" work & life than those > of his > peers, in formal and philosophical, sonic/visual/visceral work-- > > Grenier's long involvements with the texts of the early Stein (which > he was > teaching at Franconia--as the "Yale Stein" became available)--as > well as his > studies singly, as teacher and in a reading group including Leslie > Scalapino--in Whitman--the versionsof Leaves of Grass culminating > esp in The > Deathbed Edition--link him with the early modernism of WCW and the > early > Stein--as wel as the 19th century Whitman--whose work was not a > "once and > for all " "set in stone" text but an ongoing series of versions, > alterations, rearrangements, additions, subtractions, changes in > names, > spellings, grammar, syntax-- > > (SERIES after al is the title of a Grenier book)-- > > i wd agree with many that MOBY DICK is a postmodernist so to speak > text > --and i wd include the work of E A Poe as well-- > > D H Lawrence in his STUDIES IN CLASSIC AMERICAN LITERATURE (which > pre-dates > WCW's In the American Grain)--notes a number of times that the > Americans > have relegated their classic works, in the "old American art > speech"--to the > nursery--"adventure stories, : :detective tales," science-fictions > stories," > etc etc--the Classic American texts dealt with issues, ideas, > images, which > the 20th century American, according to Lawrence, has to banish--to > the > nursery!-- > > "the pure products of America go crazy" as WCW noted-- > > "out there"--("the figure of Outward")--though, one might say, is > the as yet > hidden in plain site/sight/cite "classic american" outsider/avant- > garde > postmodern etc-- > > ("where the 'outyard" is the 'backyard' to paraphrase from Grenier's > little > work on Narrative for the old Olson series--) > > "The blank and ruin we see in Nature may be within our own eye"--(R W > Emerson) > "The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in > confusion/at > random"--Heraclitus > > "To shut the eyes is travel"--Emily Dickinson > "My voice goes after/what my eyes can't reach"--Walter Whitman > > "Writing is time travel"--W S Burroughs > "It is a science-fiction film set in the past"--Federico Fellini, on > his > SATYRICON- > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:29:38 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v936) There we absolutely can agree. I think a misreading of wittgenstein has done all sorts of harm in both the realms of philosophy and poetry. however, i think most pertinent, and here I'll abandon a defense of wittgenstein and just move into my own thinking, is getting rid of the negative connotations of meaninglessness, nonsense, and senselessness when we're talking about poetry. I have in mind a radical sort of idea that in poetry meaninglessness is impossible. that the way poetry works precludes an absence of sense. and that meaninglessness in the linguistic sense that gets outlined in Philosophical Investigations is actually a signifier of transcendental operation of language as it bridges between the realm of the immediately real (wherein i can stub my toe if i'm not paying attention) and the realm of the semiotically mediated (wherein I can write a long and angry letter to the manufacturer of my kitchen table for putting the leg of it in such an incredibly stupid place). I think that there is a place where those two genera overlap, and most of human experience lies there in the overlap, but there is an outer limit of the immediately real and the semiotically mediated that becomes a sort of free form grammatical playground stripped of conventional semiotic processes on the one hand, and a transcendent but deafening, or maybe muting, reality on the other. What I hope for, look for, wonder about the possibility of in my own work is how to possibly use that unattached signification of the one as a sort of roadmap to the inexpressable other. That, to me, is the mysticism of poetry that I wrote about in the original essay, and I think it's related in some ways to what Adam was talking about as a new spirituality.\ On Jul 28, 2010, at 10:59 AM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, David, Jim, > > This thread has become so vast, in a very good way, so that I do not > know > how to respond to each (particularly to Jason's meticulous arguments), > unless I spend a trans-finite portion of my day doing it, not that > that > would be a bad thing. > > Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I think there is > more we > agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My objection to > him is in > the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his effect on poetry and > poetics in the United States. It narrows the possibilities of poetry, > particularly the way Language School applied his ideas. Let me > explain what > I mean: > > a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the subject- > predicate > structure is not the only way a sentence can be constructed; but he > delegates every other structure to second class by calling it > "meaningless," > unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I need to go back > to the > text and choose a few more words with the same rhetorical effect). > > But who has decided that the nature of *reality* consists (must > express > itself) as true or false and everything else is peripheral, > secondary. That > is a profound, unquestioned assumption on Wittgenstein's part the > validity > of which to me is much less clear -in fact, to be honest about it, is > clearly "false." > > I am more on the side of what Heraclitus says and David quotes: > ""The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in > confusion/at > random." > > We see truth, if at all, through a glass darkly, which also constantly > changes, is fluid. "Factual," "ethical," "pilosophical," even > "scientific" > values blur are very rarely distinct (a clear demarcation between > objective > and subjective basically impossible), and to build a reality > structure on a > fundementalist distinction between true and false (which W. does by > privileging a prepositional view of what is real, as opposed to > unsayable) > is foolhardy. A poet's job, it seems to me, is exactly to deal with > that > unsayable -shall we consider ourselves to be dealing with nonsense > or, as > Language School or it follower Flarf does, indulging in language > games or > google games. > > I do not disagree that we are may be doomed (The Spiritual Life of > Replicants deals with that issue) to grasp reality only through > language > -but that *does not mean* that we have to do it by entering only > through one > straight straight straight gate -the prepositional sentence. > > David, > I think we agree in our view of Grenier. I was not aware Grenier's > later > work was blacklisted by Language School poets. At least they > realized what > he was getting at and his pursuit went awry from their approach to > poetry. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. >> >> >> >> >>> "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the >>> world >>> everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there >>> is no >>> value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." >>> >>> Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While >>> he pays >>> lip >>> service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he >>> condescends to >>> it >>> and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk >>> "meaningfully" >>> about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that >>> thing >>> becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." >>> On a >>> grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who >>> looks >>> for >>> the key under the light because that's where the light is, not >>> necessarily >>> where the key is? >>> >> >> I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a tautology. >> But I'm >> not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, as I >> don't >> think it's particularly useful except as an example of where he was >> coming >> from in his later more compelling world. There are huge flaws in the >> tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous >> "whereof >> we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank >> Ramsey's >> translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't whistle >> it >> either." >> >> To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit of >> that, >> and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of >> uselessness of the >> actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying >> that the >> tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once >> you climbed >> to the top. >> >> >> >>> Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world >>> ("the sense >>> of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it >>> is and >>> happens as it does happen." >>> >> >> On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at >> all. In >> fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost dismissive >> of that >> part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. >> It just >> isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's >> empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are more >> fruitful. >> >> >> Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the >> English >>> syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the >>> syntax >>> for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen >>> (are true) >>> or >>> don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly >>> as the >>> paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. >>> >> >> well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are >> sentences >> that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted section >> deals >> with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to >> facts, what >> facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because >> this >> notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from >> Russell and >> Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals of >> Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the >> distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of >> sentences >> in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's >> part of what >> the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical >> investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts >> of the >> world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity >> apply, and >> there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a >> wider >> range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider >> part of >> that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that there >> are a >> wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and >> senselessness. I >> don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that >> it's a >> mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow >> decisive about >> the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of >> Philosophical >> Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. >> >> >> Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with >> conjunctive >>> forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the >>> agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the >>> process of >>> emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false >>> but as >>> process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally >>> different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a >>> "subject-predicate" >>> construction is only a part. >>> >>> "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all >>> happening >>> and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. >>> What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for >>> otherwise this >>> would again be accidental. >>> >>> It must lie outside the world." >>> >>> Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical >>> skepticism >>> about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental >>> philosophy >>> (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. >>> >> >> Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's >> defined >> "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The >> world is >> everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he >> rejects later >> in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend it. >> But it >> isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ought problem per se, but >> rather I >> think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" >> themselves. It's >> not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just >> that, but >> rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful >> things about >> moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably >> disavow as >> not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd >> say is >> "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the >> statement that >> there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement >> that there >> are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're even >> trying >> to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it >> from a >> different angle." >> >> Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I >> quoted >> doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for by >> Cora >> Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were >> all sorts >> of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to >> show the >> things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never >> addresses CS >> Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly >> certain he >> must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey >> thought that >> there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems to >> draw, >> and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style >> pragmatism in >> his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, >> and it's >> hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as >> anything >> other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard >> Rorty >> thought it was. >> >> My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was a >> theory >> of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to say >> things >> about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of >> human >> life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why >> I think >> he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain >> kinds of >> nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you >> should be >> able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're >> talking about >> them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we >> reflect on >> what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have >> know way of >> knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. >> As such, >> this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical >> position, and >> indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. >> >> >> "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." >>> >>> Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. >>> >> >> Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions >> and not >> sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok >> with the >> idea of ethical signifiers. >> >> >> "Propositions cannot express anything higher." >>> >>> Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure >>> having >>> any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, >>> subject-predicate structure. >>> >>> This is a priori assumption on W's part having >>> to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the >>> state >>> state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere >>> abstraction >>> from it. >>> >>> I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false >>> without it >> referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the >> object. You >> don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you >> could give >> me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false >> without >> having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're >> getting >> at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems >> tautological. >> >> >> >>> "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change >>> the >>> limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be >>> expressed >>> in >>> language." >>> >>> It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more >>> specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of >>> translation), >>> you >>> are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the >>> crucial >>> importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on >>> disintegration, fragmentation, etc. >>> >> but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the >> limits of >> language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what can >> and >> can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be >> expressable >> in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking >> about what >> it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is >> understood >> as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is >> unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on >> intention >> toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow wittgenstein >> into a >> severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at >> all clear >> what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses >> various >> words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, >> bread is >> pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is >> chapati is ... >> ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of god? a >> privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway >> similar to >> the private object in the mind of another party to the >> conversation? really? >> but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say >> "bread!" do i >> really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, not >> really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to swallow. >> same >> word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this >> bread is >> excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what >> Wittgenstein >> is concerned with. >> >> >> "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to >>> speak >>> wax or wane as a whole. >>> >>> The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." >>> >>> W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. >>> >> >> On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure >> what you >> mean he ignores them? >> >> >> "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." >>> >>> This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with >>> the >>> universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in >>> physics >>> (unless I misunderstand him). >>> >>> I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of >> Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific >> reasoning, >> without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with special >> relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was founded >> (which >> is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). >> >> >> >>> "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its >>> contemplation >>> as a limited whole. >>> >>> The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical >>> feeling." >>> >>> That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. >>> Benjamin is >>> all >>> for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He >>> points >>> us to an outline of "a structure of escape." >>> >>> "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever >>> he >>> returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I >>> refer to >>> Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large >>> number of >>> casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the >>> limits of >>> the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a >>> sort of >>> nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a >>> statement >>> about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are >>> incapable of >>> having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything >>> meaningful about >>> it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that >>> part of >>> human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, >>> spirituality, >>> faith, and religion." >>> >>> That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my >>> opinion >>> rebuts him. >>> >> >> I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. Wittgenstein >> doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of >> speaking and >> new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in the >> remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject >> though is the >> notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language that >> is >> possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness and >> uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's >> how >> language actually gets used most of the time unless you start >> getting caught >> up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing >> a limit >> not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. >> Now, I'm >> not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where >> he draws >> the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is more >> an >> epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical >> one). but >> i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line >> was drawn, >> in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different reasons, >> there is >> an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and >> describe with >> meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that >> reason, >> that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the >> mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry is >> both >> capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that >> experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of >> communion with >> each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the same >> way that >> we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." >> >> >>> "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i >>> was >>> maybe >>> being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I >>> have a >>> hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but >>> they're a >>> little too important to me personally to allow for the outright >>> materialism >>> that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think >>> he's >>> largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be >>> just some >>> sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific >>> criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I >>> don't >>> much >>> care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is >>> suspicious >>> of >>> the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a >>> sort of >>> irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the >>> textuality of >>> writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for >>> example, >>> I >>> feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's >>> going >>> on, >>> at least as it strikes me." >>> >>> I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School >>> poets, but I >>> think one should call a spade a spade. >>> >> >> Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the >> Author >> and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I >> don't care >> what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my reading >> The >> Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self- >> consciously >> suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. >> (Although on that >> point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in >> blazevox a few >> years ago and can be read here for the curious: >> http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) >> >> Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. >> >> -Jason >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines >> & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:49:49 -0500 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?S=E9amas_Cain?= Subject: Signs & Writings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _______________ "Signs & Writings" at the Fundaci=F3 Su=F1ol in Barcelona, Spain http://fundaciosunol.org/exposicions/exposicions.php?lang=3D2 "All the works in this exhibition form part of the Josep Su=F1ol Collection and were created between 1972 and the present day. The forty-two pieces chosen here reveal the recurring use of signs and writing in painting, collage and tapestry as a visual reading of the artists=92 need to communicate." The artistic contributions document "multiple polysemy, which this exhibition aims to show with signs and writing as the backbone to the aesthetic language, whose iconography of composite material lines sketches out the artists=92 thoughts and is genetically contained in their signs, in the world of their ideas." http://fundaciosunol.org/exposicions/exposicions.php?lang=3D2 Creative regards, S=E9amas Cain http://www.saorsainn.net http://alazanto.org/seamascain http://seamascain-writernetwork.org _______________ =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 11:33:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Jason, a) A few other condescending attributions by Wittgenstein: "Nonsensical," "bewitchment of language." All he had to add was "young and foolish," "wet behind the ears humanity. "Nonsensical" is a logical positivist term; "bewitchment of language" is just a more "poetic" expression of the same thought. Personally, I have grave doubts how far W.' moved away from his logical positivist origins at Cambridge. b) As transfinite sets imply, any set can finally be broken to become the subset of another set, ad infinitum -building, breaking down and rebuilding... That way the distinction between "language" and "a language," as you put it, does not really exist. If so, there is not much difference between Witgenstein's "Language." and Benjamin's "ideal language." In this specific sense, in his use of the concept of "language," one might argue that W. -the quintessential liberal Christian Jew- was a cabbalist. The difference, it seems to me, between W. and B. is that for W. "language" is a final absolute, therefore, unsayable. Surprisingly, counter-intuitively, for B. "ideal language" is not. B's "ideal language constantly breaks down, reforms, expands itself. It is a process, a continuous one. Here one come, I think, to Benjamin's rebuttal of Wittgenstein within the framework, body of language itself, how language constantly, continuously breaks out of its limits towards the unsayable -which in its turn may create new fields of the unsayable: in the central importance of quotations and fragments (deterioration, fragmentation) in his writing, in his rhetorical ideal. Quotations are meta-factual. They are conjectural gestures, a rhetoric of possibilities, potentialities. They are on the level of language also always true (they are quoting someone) regardless of what they are saying. By definition quotations also are always fragments, taken from a larger whole. They need complementation (one of the constant features, themes in this thread has been to bring in what W. said before or after the specific discussed passage). When quotations are placed together, the need for complementation occurs across their jagged edges empowering the empty space among them. This is the unsayable, spiritual space. *The Arcades Project* resolves the dilemma, blind alley W's thought leads us. It creates a detailed analysis of the physical, ethical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual analysis of the past continuing into the present (he called it "dialectical history). Here W's distinction between factual and ethical (nonsensical, etc.) has disappeared, has been resolved (that's why Adorno hated The Arcades Project writings so much and wanted to edit them out -they were too "redeptive," not positivist enough). c) Jason, you say: "I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without it referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the object. You don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you could give me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false without having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're getting at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems tautological." As I said, The Arcades Project is such an example. Through quotations (in which Benjamin's own ideas also function as quotations), Benjamin makes statements (in the shape of gestures), not about "the world/ realty,"; but about language where the distinction W. makes through abstraction does not exist. All the dimensions of thought and experience -ethics, history, facts, etc. etc,- blur, blend into each other. Since humanity experiences "reality" through language and its manners of regeneration, Benjamin's method seems to me much less nonsensical or "bewitchment" of reality than Wittgenstein'. d) I am glad that you see words like "nonsensical, etc. should lose their negative connotations. But, of we do so, doesn't Wittgenstein tragic sense of life, which poets are so drawn to, basically vanish? GREAT THREAD. THANK YOU. Ciao, Murat On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Jason, David, Jim, > > This thread has become so vast, in a very good way, so that I do not know > how to respond to each (particularly to Jason's meticulous arguments), > unless I spend a trans-finite portion of my day doing it, not that that > would be a bad thing. > > Jason, first let me respond to what you are saying. I think there is more > we agree with on Wittgenstein than we disagree with. My objection to him is > in the use and consequences of his rhetoric and his effect on poetry and > poetics in the United States. It narrows the possibilities of poetry, > particularly the way Language School applied his ideas. Let me explain what > I mean: > > a) It is true that Wittgenstein will not deny that the subject-predicate > structure is not the only way a sentence can be constructed; but he > delegates every other structure to second class by calling it "meaningless," > unable to be expressed as "true or false," etc. (I need to go back to the > text and choose a few more words with the same rhetorical effect). > > But who has decided that the nature of *reality* consists (must express > itself) as true or false and everything else is peripheral, secondary. That > is a profound, unquestioned assumption on Wittgenstein's part the validity > of which to me is much less clear -in fact, to be honest about it, is > clearly "false." > > I am more on the side of what Heraclitus says and David quotes: > > ""The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion/at > random." > > We see truth, if at all, through a glass darkly, which also constantly > changes, is fluid. "Factual," "ethical," "pilosophical," even "scientific" > values blur are very rarely distinct (a clear demarcation between objective > and subjective basically impossible), and to build a reality structure on a > fundementalist distinction between true and false (which W. does by > privileging a prepositional view of what is real, as opposed to unsayable) > is foolhardy. A poet's job, it seems to me, is exactly to deal with that > unsayable -shall we consider ourselves to be dealing with nonsense or, as > Language School or it follower Flarf does, indulging in language games or > google games. > > I do not disagree that we are may be doomed (The Spiritual Life of > Replicants deals with that issue) to grasp reality only through language > -but that *does not mean* that we have to do it by entering only through > one straight straight straight gate -the prepositional sentence. > > David, > I think we agree in our view of Grenier. I was not aware Grenier's later > work was blacklisted by Language School poets. At least they realized what > he was getting at and his pursuit went awry from their approach to poetry. > > Ciao, > > Murat > > > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:56 AM, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > >> Hey Murat, thanks for the excellent counterpoint. >> >> >> >> >>> "6.41 The sense of the world must lie outside the world. In the world >>> everything is as it is and happens as it does happen. In it there is no >>> value -- and if there were, it would be of no value." >>> >>> Do you not see the circularity of Wittgenstein's argument? While he pays >>> lip >>> service to by being "sympathetic" to ethical impulses, he condescends to >>> it >>> and relegates it to subservient category. If he can not talk >>> "meaningfully" >>> about something, then he does not talk about it. Therefore, that thing >>> becomes invisible: "he didn't write about it because he couldn't." On a >>> grand scale, is this argument any different from the drunkard who looks >>> for >>> the key under the light because that's where the light is, not >>> necessarily >>> where the key is? >>> >> >> I don't see circularity, but rather the elucidation of a tautology. But >> I'm not terribly inclined to defend the argument of the tractatus, as I >> don't think it's particularly useful except as an example of where he was >> coming from in his later more compelling world. There are huge flaws in the >> tractatus, my favorite being the summation of Prop. 7 (the famous "whereof >> we cannot speak, therof we must remain silent") given by Frank Ramsey's >> translation "You can't say what you can't say and you can't whistle it >> either." >> >> To the drunk looking for his keys analogy, I think there's a bit of that, >> and I think some of it is even intentional. That sort of uselessness of the >> actual arguments is I think part of what he had in mind in saying that the >> tractatus was meant to be a ladder that you could kick away once you climbed >> to the top. >> >> >> >>> Wittgenstein never explores or goes after that "outside" world ("the >>> sense >>> of the world"). His thinking concerns itself only with what "as it is and >>> happens as it does happen." >>> >> >> On the contrary, I think he doesn't think that stuff matters at all. In >> fact in his journals and in the brown books, he's almost dismissive of that >> part of experience as stuff that can be through empirical science. It just >> isn't the proper object of philosophy to deal with that stuff. It's >> empirical and there are other ways of thinking about it that are more >> fruitful. >> >> >> Here I think an analysis of syntax is important -specifically the English >>> syntax, composed of subject and predicate- is important. That is the >>> syntax >>> for an empirical view of the world -where things either happen (are true) >>> or >>> don't happen (are not true). Wittgeinstein accepts this implicitly as the >>> paradigm, as far as I can tell, with defending why. >>> >> >> well, he's talking about propositions, which by definition are sentences >> that can be true or false. Much of what precedes the quoted section deals >> with what propositions are, how they work, how they relate to facts, what >> facts are etc. And again, i think this is a fair criticism because this >> notion of the proposition as a thing at all arises from from Russell and >> Whiteheads elucidation of the predicate calculus in The Principals of >> Mathematics. That said, I'm not entirely sure I understand what the >> distinction you're drawing is, but I do think that we have lots of sentences >> in English which aren't propositions at all, and I think that's part of what >> the tractatus and in particular the first part of Philosophical >> investigations is trying to get at: that is, there are these parts of the >> world we can talk about where the notions of truth and falsity apply, and >> there's this other part which is more loose but that allows for a wider >> range of meaning than mere propositions do, and there is a wider part of >> that that carries neither truth value nor meaning and in that there are a >> wide variety of kinds of meaninglessness, nonsense, and senselessness. I >> don't think wittgenstein would necessarily disagree with you that it's a >> mistake to consider the subject predicate syntax as somehow decisive about >> the world, in fact I think the first 100 or so remarks of Philosophical >> Investigations are precisely an attack on that kind of view. >> >> >> Now, instead, consider a syntactical structure replete with conjunctive >>> forms (a syntax of possibilities, of potential thought) -as the >>> agglutinative Turkish syntax is, which records thought in the process of >>> emerging (once again, see *Eda Anthology*), not as true or false but as >>> process, then a philosophical view of such a world would be totally >>> different -pre-analytic, much more inclusive, in which a >>> "subject-predicate" >>> construction is only a part. >>> >>> "If there is a value which is of value, it must lie outside all happening >>> and being-so. For all happening and being-so is accidental. >>> What makes it non-accidental cannot lie in the world, for otherwise this >>> would again be accidental. >>> >>> It must lie outside the world." >>> >>> Here Wittgenstein is practicing, is following Hume's radical skepticism >>> about the "innate logic" of reality to which the continental philosophy >>> (from Spinoza to Kant, etc.) is a counterpoint. >>> >> >> Here I think you're misreading. part of this, tho, is that he's defined >> "the world" early on as a particularly limited sort of thing. "The world is >> everything that is the case." again, this is part of what he rejects later >> in his earlier thinking, and I don't think even he would defend it. But it >> isn't precisely a recitation of the is/ought problem per se, but rather I >> think a more nuanced assertion about the nature of "oughts" themselves. It's >> not a skeptical idea about moral facts, or at least its not just that, but >> rather a statement about whether we're able to say meaningful things about >> moral facts. Again, even the phrase "moral facts" he'd probably disavow as >> not meaninful in someway, but I think the basic form of what he'd say is >> "well, if you want to be a radical skeptic, go ahead, but the statement that >> there are not moral facts is just as meaningless as the statement that there >> are moral facts. You're still stuck in the flybottle if you're even trying >> to have that conversation. You'll get nowhere, best to come at it from a >> different angle." >> >> Also, there's an important aspect to all this that the section I quoted >> doesn't mention, and that's the notion (most recently argued for by Cora >> Diamond I believe) that while wittgenstein thought that there were all sorts >> of things that couldn't be said, you could still use language to show the >> things that you can't talk about. Sadly, Wittgenstein never addresses CS >> Peirce directly in the surviving nachlass, although I'm fairly certain he >> must have grappled with him at some point because Frank Ramsey thought that >> there was in pragmatism a way out of the box the tractatus seems to draw, >> and there's certainly something like James and Peirce style pragmatism in >> his thinking that shows up by the time he dictated the brown book, and it's >> hard for me to see his later conception of "meaning as use" as anything >> other than a kind of pragmatism, albeit not the kind that Richard Rorty >> thought it was. >> >> My point here again though is that what he was grappling with was a theory >> of language that seemed to constantly shut down any attempts to say things >> about a certain widely experienced and hugely important aspect of human >> life, and I think he saw it in a nearly tragic light, which is why I think >> he was so happy to describe the attribution of meaning to certain kinds of >> nonsense as "bewitchment by language." because it seems like you should be >> able to talk about these things, and we feel like when we're talking about >> them that we're saying meaningful things, but it's only when we reflect on >> what that might really mean that we have to realize that we have know way of >> knowing whether what we've said communicates what we hoped or not. As such, >> this becomes a much more epistemological than metaphysical position, and >> indeed I think that's how he ended up approaching the issue. >> >> >> "6.42 Hence also there can be no ethical propositions." >>> >>> Here one can see W's circular thinking in practice. >>> >> >> Again, it's important to note that he's talking about propositions and not >> sentences, or even more importantly signs. I think he would be ok with the >> idea of ethical signifiers. >> >> >> "Propositions cannot express anything higher." >>> >>> Yes, this is true if the only possible or valid linguistic structure >>> having >>> any hold to reality consisted of the propositions, that is to say, >>> subject-predicate structure. >>> >>> This is a priori assumption on W's part having >>> to do, as far as I can see, very little connection to reality, the state >>> state in which language function. Subject=predicate is a mere abstraction >>> from it. >>> >>> I don't see how it you can have sentence that is true or false without >> it referring to an object and then predicating some quality to the object. >> You don't need subject-predicate word order to get that, but if you could >> give me an example of a statement that is capable of being true or false >> without having some kind of predicate, I might be able to grasp what you're >> getting at. To me, the fact that propositions contain predicates seems >> tautological. >> >> >> >>> "6.43 If good or bad willing changes the world, it can only change the >>> limits of the world, not the facts; not the things that can be expressed >>> in >>> language." >>> >>> It seems to me wrong. If you change the limits of language (more >>> specifically of *a* language, that's why the importance of translation), >>> you >>> are changing what can be said in it. As I said, here lies the crucial >>> importance of translation and Benjamin's thought about it -on >>> disintegration, fragmentation, etc. >>> >> but when he's talking about the limits of language he means the limits of >> language, not the limits of a language. he's talking about what can and >> can't be talked about, full stop, not some concept that might be expressable >> in one language but difficult to express in another. He's talking about what >> it means for a sentence to have meaning at all, not whether it is understood >> as intended. And I think part of the big reason that Benjamin is >> unsatisfying to me on that score is that he relies so heavily on intention >> toward signified objects, and where that goes I follow wittgenstein into a >> severe skepticism about that sort of semiotic notion. it's not at all clear >> what such an object is, and if I recall correctly Benjamin uses various >> words for "bread" in different languages as an example. Well ok, bread is >> pain is brot is pan is lechem is naan is pita is tortilla is chapati is ... >> ? which do you intend? some ideal form of bread in the mind of god? a >> privately held abstraction that we take on faith is in someway similar to >> the private object in the mind of another party to the conversation? really? >> but what if I sit down at the table and choke a bit and say "bread!" do i >> really intend that same thing even tho my meaning is similar? no, not >> really, i mean, I'm choking, give me bread so i can try to swallow. same >> word. same object in the real world i'd signify by saying "this bread is >> excellent." completely different meaning. And meaning is what Wittgenstein >> is concerned with. >> >> >> "In brief, the world must thereby become quite another, it must so to >>> speak >>> wax or wane as a whole. >>> >>> The world of the happy is quite another than that of the unhappy." >>> >>> W. ignores the consequences of what he is saying here. >>> >> >> On the contrary, I think he's very conscious of them. I'm not sure what >> you mean he ignores them? >> >> >> "6.44 Not how the world is, is the mystical, but that it is." >>> >>> This sentence remind me of Einstein's "God does not play dice with the >>> universe." Cute, what it does not enter Einstein's thoughts in physics >>> (unless I misunderstand him). >>> >>> I'd argue with that. I think it's a succint & pithy expression of >> Einstein's strong commitment to instrumentalism in scientific reasoning, >> without which it has been argued he'd never have come up with special >> relativity, on which his rejection of quantum mechanics was founded (which >> is where that quote comes from, if I recall correctly). >> >> >> >>> "6.45 The contemplation of the world sub specie aeterni is its >>> contemplation >>> as a limited whole. >>> >>> The feeling that the world is a limited whole is the mystical feeling." >>> >>> That's where the great divide between W. and Benjamin comes. Benjamin is >>> all >>> for breaking down these "wholes" in the realm of "ideal language. He >>> points >>> us to an outline of "a structure of escape." >>> >>> "Those are the sort of remarks, which he continually made whenever he >>> returned to notions of value and judgement, that I mean when I refer to >>> Wittgenstein's mysticism. One of the things that I think a large number >>> of >>> casual wittgenstein readers misunderstand is the idea that "the limits of >>> the language form the limits of my world" is not a expression of a sort >>> of >>> nominalism, that is, it's not a statement about the world, it's a >>> statement >>> about language. the huge aspect of reality about which we are incapable >>> of >>> having meaningful discourse because we can't say anything meaningful >>> about >>> it, that for Wittgenstein is the most important part, and in that part of >>> human life lies all of the traditional notions of occultism, >>> spirituality, >>> faith, and religion." >>> >>> That's where Benjamin goes beyond Wittgeinstein, essentially in my >>> opinion >>> rebuts him. >>> >> >> I feel like you're misunderstanding the argument though. Wittgenstein >> doesn't deny that language can be extended and that new ways of speaking and >> new grammars can be created. he's quite eloquent on that point in the >> remarks on the foundations of mathematics. What he does reject though is the >> notion that there's some completeness or idealness of language that is >> possible or even desirable. rather that language in its vagueness and >> uncertainty and particularity is where it's most useful and that's how >> language actually gets used most of the time unless you start getting caught >> up in philosophical nonsense. Where he draws a limit, he's drawing a limit >> not at any existing language, but at the possibility of meaning. Now, I'm >> not comitted to the notion that he's precisely correct about where he draws >> the line about what can and can't be meant (and again, this is more an >> epistemological and psychological claim than it is a metaphysical one). but >> i really only want to defend the notion that whereever that line was drawn, >> in wittgenstein's view, and in mine for somewhat different reasons, there is >> an area of human experience that is impossible to reach at and describe with >> meaningful meaningful language that is no less important for that reason, >> that that area of experience is what Wittgenstein referred to as the >> mystical, and probably most importantly, my own view that poetry is both >> capable and may even be necessary to guide others to encounter that >> experience for themselves so that we can be in some sort of communion with >> each other even though we can't describe or validate it in the same way that >> we could a sentence like "the earth revolves around the sun." >> >> >>> "D. You're right that Grenier is a special case, and I'll admit i was >>> maybe >>> being a little propagandistic in my cooption of Language poetry. I have a >>> hard time seeing them all as a unified group in any case, but they're a >>> little too important to me personally to allow for the outright >>> materialism >>> that I felt Adam painted them with in his piece, although I think he's >>> largely right. The appeal to Grenier, I will confess, could be just some >>> sleight of hand to try to rescue a larger movement from a specific >>> criticism, and I think it's fair to call me on that. That said, I don't >>> much >>> care if any of the big Language folks agree that their work is suspicious >>> of >>> the materiality of language, i think i see it there anyway as a sort of >>> irony that has to counterbalance the extreme focus on the textuality of >>> writing. To me, reading something like the Chinese Notebook, for example, >>> I >>> feel like there's a certain amount of whistling at the dark that's going >>> on, >>> at least as it strikes me." >>> >>> I sympathize with your divided loyalty about Language School poets, but I >>> think one should call a spade a spade. >>> >> >> Fair enough. Although I'm tempted to appeal to the Death of the Author >> and/or Umberto Eco's notion of machina pigra and just say that I don't care >> what Ron Silliman thinks about this particular topic, on my reading The >> Chinese Notebook is clearly written in a manner that is self-consciously >> suspicious of the materiality of the language as employed. (Although on that >> point, my own response to that poem, The Liar Paradox, was in blazevox a few >> years ago and can be read here for the curious: >> http://www.blazevox.org/061-jfq.pdf) >> >> Thanks again for the fascinating conversation. >> >> -Jason >> >> >> ================================== >> The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check >> guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html >> > > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:08:24 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Mark Prejsnar Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "> the trajectory of Grenier , his works, for some long time black listed b= y > his former colleagues in the 'Language-centered" writing "community"-- " >=20 this is indeed a fascinating claim ...=A0 blacklisted just how?=A0 details = ???? =0A=0A=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A--mark=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A"Roads=0Aof excess were roads not= taken,=A0 and that=0Ahas made all the difference."=0A=0A=A0=0A=0A=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 --Jerome McGann --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Jason Quackenbush wrote: From: Jason Quackenbush Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:13 PM marvelous david, thanks so much. there's a lot to chew on here, but I wante= d to remark that for me at least, I think both the connection with Stein's = early poetry so heavily laden with parataxis as it was and with Whitmans co= ntinual revision as a connection to refiguring the notion of the book, reso= nate with the sort of mysticism that I think i see in Grenier, something ak= in to text as process rather than product. this, in my thinking at least, connects up with a rather fruitless obsessiv= e period i spent shortly after the publication of the complete Ted Berrigan= trying to find correspondences to Alfred North Whitehead's process philoso= phy in his various mundane occasional poems (by which i mean the often repe= ated trope in his poetry of picking a day or a set of activities and memori= alizing them in a poem eg today in ann arbor, 10 things i do every day, mem= orial day, etc.). At the end of my researches which didn't bear much out, a= fter I got over my disappointment in discovering the great organizing princ= iple I thought i'd discovered in fact was my own misreading of Whitehead, i= realized i'd been looking very much at the wrong thing and that the real p= rocess philosophy stuff had to do more with the way he was compasing things= than with any underlying metaphysics. anyway, Berrigan also is a favorite spiritual master of mine, and what you'= re talking about in Grenier I think I see a bit in some of Berrigan as well= . On Jul 27, 2010, at 9:40 PM, David Chirot wrote: > a little side note: (re Grenier/Trakl/Wittgenstein) >=20 > Robert Grenier early in his writing life translated a few (four or more) > poems of Trakl's for an anthology-- >=20 > Grenier has by some been considered as a mystic; by far his greatest > philosophical interest/influence is Heidegger-- >=20 > In "I HATE=A0 SPEECH"--One might consider the context, the time period-- >=20 > on the one hand, the speech driven poetics of Projective Verse and many > aspectsof Black Mountain, of the new York School-- > as well as it being a time period swamped in SPEECHES-- > coming from al directions and all media-- >=20 > living and teaching in Franconia, NH, Grenier, while doing his daily runn= ing > as well as sitting and listeing intently for hours to the sound of water > dripping in a cistern--and to recordings of Pygmy music & sounds-- >=20 > one finds Grenier developing his ear ever more acutely attuned to the > smallest particles of both speech as SOUND and as sign-- > the variety of ways in which for years his works have been > published/presented, with an emphasis on the physical/visual/sonic struct= ure > literally and literarily of the Book-- > taking it apart, putting it back togther in another from--whether as huge > poster as la=A0 M'ASS AVE or box as in SENTENCES and also the three parts > black box encased series of visual/verbl poems put out by by O Books > ("Minnestoa" etc--)-- > and the varying sizes and shapes of other tests-- > culminating in the huge serial works done in "lawyer's office "color > markers-- >=20 > in a Talk given at the Robert frost Room at Franconia--published in the l= ate > 90's--(forgive=A0 mne for a moment here the editor/publisher escapes me--= wil > come back:=A0 Stephen Dignazio--)-- >=20 > Grenier notes that an interesting question to investigate is the conjunct= ion > between among, "only the imagination is real" of WCW's Spring and All and > the "no ideas but in things/Mr" of Paterson-- >=20 > to think on /with these as a both/and rather than the usual "either/or"-- >=20 > to find ways in which there is an identification of the word and thing, t= hen > the letter and thing--so that the forming of a letter itself handwritten = in > time--is an emergence/appearance of sound & image simulateneously--at the > same time as they are both physical things in action-- >=20 > Olson wanted the citizen to go faster, faster--so that one thing follows = on > another--the action of the poem essaying to "pull even, " equal, that is,= to > the real itself"--with the action-- >=20 > no more of the Aristotelian "after the fact" of writing following the > action, behind it-- >=20 > but--drawing even, so that action/writing take place as nearly as possibl= e > simultaenously-- >=20 > Rimbaud already in the "Lettres du voyant" to Demeny and izambard in > 1870--had written of the poetry of the Future "preceding the action" >=20 > which i have written on as being carried out literally/literarily by Rimb= aud > in that his writings precede in their descriptions, images, words--the > actions which he began to live out after he stopped writing-- >=20 > how many of his letters when no longer a poet carry the very images he ha= s > written of years earlier as Poetry & Prose Poetry----and now writes simpl= y > as bald description factual documents-- >=20 > Rimbaud also wrote of the poet of the Future (also greatly effected by th= e > total ful emancipation of Women)--as being "not unlike the Greek"-- > one notes in Grenier's studies of Heidegger the many essays re Greek thou= ght > and poetry -- >=20 > the trajectory of Grenier , his works, for some long time black listed by > his former colleagues in the 'Language-centered" writing "community"-- >=20 > has been one of far more radically "outside" work & life than those of hi= s > peers, in formal and philosophical, sonic/visual/visceral work-- >=20 > Grenier's long involvements with the texts of the early Stein (which he w= as > teaching at Franconia--as the "Yale Stein" became available)--as well as = his > studies singly, as teacher and in a reading group including Leslie > Scalapino--in Whitman--the versionsof Leaves of Grass culminating esp in = The > Deathbed Edition--link him with the early modernism of WCW and the early > Stein--as wel as the 19th century Whitman--whose work was not a "once and > for all " "set in stone" text but an ongoing series of versions, > alterations, rearrangements, additions, subtractions, changes in names, > spellings, grammar, syntax-- >=20 > (SERIES after al is the title of a Grenier book)-- >=20 > i wd agree with many that MOBY DICK is a postmodernist so to speak text > --and i wd include the work of E A Poe as well-- >=20 > D H Lawrence in his STUDIES IN CLASSIC AMERICAN LITERATURE=A0 (which pre-= dates > WCW's In the American Grain)--notes a number of times that the Americans > have relegated their classic works, in the "old American art speech"--to = the > nursery--"adventure stories, : :detective tales," science-fictions storie= s," > etc etc--the Classic American texts dealt with issues, ideas, images, whi= ch > the 20th century American, according to Lawrence, has to banish--to the > nursery!-- >=20 > "the pure products of America go crazy" as WCW noted-- >=20 > "out there"--("the figure of Outward")--though, one might say, is the as = yet > hidden in plain site/sight/cite "classic american" outsider/avant-garde > postmodern etc-- >=20 > ("where the 'outyard" is the 'backyard' to paraphrase from Grenier's litt= le > work on Narrative for the old Olson series--) >=20 > "The blank and ruin we see in Nature may be within our own eye"--(R W > Emerson) > "The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion/at > random"--Heraclitus >=20 > "To shut the eyes is travel"--Emily Dickinson > "My voice goes after/what my eyes can't reach"--Walter Whitman >=20 > "Writing is time travel"--W S Burroughs > "It is a science-fiction film set in the past"--Federico Fellini, on his > SATYRICON- >=20 > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelin= es & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines= & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:21:08 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Danny Snelson Subject: Simultaneous Online / Printed Matter Edit Publications Book Launch (11 Books Concerning Tan Lin's 7CV, Postcard, MediaWiki) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good Afternoon Poetics, Announcing dual launch of the inaugural run of Edit Publications! Printed Matter Launch Hard copies sold at Printed Matter prices. White wine! & Edit Publications Online All books available for free download or (mostly) at-cost print-on-demand. If yr in NY: join us TONIGHT at PRINTED MATTER from 5-7 pm &for drinks at Cafe Loup afterward! Otherwise: please make yrself at home on the website! Yrs, Danny : : Network Publishing at Printed Matter. A LAUNCH: Thursday, JULY 29th, 5-7PM 195 Tenth Avenue, New York, NY 10001 A Series of Publications Edited by Danny Snelson Concerning the Republication of Tan Lin=E2=80=99s *Seven Controlled Vocabul= aries and Obituary 2004. The Joy of Cooking* On July 29th, Edit Publications launches eleven books expanding Tan Lin=E2=80=99s *Seven Controlled Vocabularies and Obiturary 2004. The Joy of Cooking *(Wesleyan Poetry Series, 2010). These printed editions derive from an event at the Kelly Writers House at the University of Pennsylvania on April 12th, 2010 titled =E2=80=9CHandmade book, PDF, lulu, Appendix, Powerpoint, Kanban Board/Post-Its, Blurb, Dual Language (Chinese/ English) Edition, micro lecture, Selectric II interview, wine/cheese reception, Q&A (xerox), film.= =E2=80=9D Books published include: *Purple/Pink Appendix* by Tan Lin with an introduction by Danny Snelson, afterword by Charles Bernstein and indexes b= y Lawrence Giffin, Ashley Leavitt, John Paetsch, Danny Snelson, and Tan Lin. = * Blurb* by Tan Lin. *Event Inventory and Documentation *(monochrome and polychrome editions) by Jeremy JF Thompson. *Selected* *Essays About a Bibliography, *with contributions by forty-eight authors. *7CV Chinese Edition *(1-4)* *(!!! characters !!!). *7CV Critical Reader*, with full tex= t downloads in PDF format. Printed on demand by lulu.com in a continual state of revision. Event Editors and Authors include: Matthew Abess, Chris Alexander, Louis Asekoff, Stan Apps, Danielle Aubert, Charles Bernstein, Marie Buck, Lee Ann Brown, E. Shaskan Bumas, Ken Chen, Evelyn Chi=E2=80=99en, Clare Churchouse,= Cecilia Corrigan, AMJ Crawford, Kieran Daly, Monica de la Torre, Thom Donovan, Patrick Durgin, Kareem Estefan, J. Gordon Faylor, Al Filreis, Thomas Fink, Mashinka Firunts, Robert Fitterman, Jonathan Flatley, Brad Flis, Peter W. Fong, Christopher Funkhouser, Kristen Gallagher, Sarah Gambito, Ellen Grube= r Garvey, Kenneth Goldsmith, Cecilia Gronberg/Jonas (J) Magnusson, Heidi Brayman Hackel, Erin Gautche, Lawrence Giffin, Diana Hamilton, Eddie Hopely= , Paolo Javier, Greem Jellyfish, Josef Kaplan, John Keene, Diana Kingsley, Matthew Landis, Ashley Leavitt, Tan Lin, Warren Liu, Jessica Lowenthal, Sueyeun Juliette Lee, Maya Lin, Warren Liu, Dana Teen Lomax, Patrick Lovelace, Dan Machlin, Rachel Malik, Josiah McElheny, Stephen McLaughlin, Joe Milutis, John Paetsch, Asher Penn, Ellen Quinn, Diana Ro, Raphael Rubenstein, Jay Sanders, Katherine Elaine Sanders, Karen L. Schiff, Jeremy Sigler, Danny Snelson, Carlos Soto, Kaegan Sparks, Chris Sylvester, Gordon Tapper, Michelle Taransky, Jeremy JF Thompson, Richard Turnbull, Dan Visel, Dorothy Wang, Andrew Weinstein, and Sara Wintz. 11 BOOKS/1 POSTCARD/+ A WIKI (link below) *Purple/Pink Appendix* by Tan Lin with introduction by Danny Snelson; afterword by Charles Bernstein; indexes by Lawrence Giffin, Ashley Leavitt, John Paetsch, and Danny Snelson; readers reports; interview with Chris Alexander, Kristen Gallagher, Danny Snelson, and Gordon Tapper; expanded preface; tumblr stuff; cover spread by Clare Churchouse; Google Analytics; Markov chain; and bibliography. *Blurb *by Tan Lin. Edited by Matthew Abess, Patrick Lovelace, Stephen McLaughlin, and Danny Snelson. With contributions by Christopher Alexander, Louis Asekoff, Stan Apps, Danielle Aubert, Charles Bernstein, E. Shaskan Bumas, Ken Chen, Cecilia Corrigan, Clare Churchouse, AMJ Crawford, Kieran Daly, M=C3=B3nica de la Torre, Thom Donovan, Patrick Durgin, Kareem Estefan= , Robert Fitterman, Jonathan Flatley, Peter Fong, Christopher Funkhouser, Kristen Gallagher, Sarah Gambito, Kenneth Goldsmith, Diana Hamilton, Eddie Hopeley, Paolo Javier, Josef Kaplan, John Keene, Matthew Landis, Juliette Lee, Maya Lin, Warren Liu, Patrick Lovelace, Rachel Malik, Dan Machlin, Michael Ondaatje, Asher Penn, Josiah McElheny, Stephen McLaughlin, Jay Sanders, Katherine Sanders, Jeremy Sigler, Danny Snelson, Chris Sylvester, Gordon Tapper, Michele Taransky, Dan Visel, Dorothy Wang, and Sara Wintz. *Event Inventory and Documentation (1-2) *by Jeremy JF Thompson with openin= g minutes by Eddie Hopely. A text and photographic documentation of all technological platforms used at the =E2=80=9CEdit: Processing Network Publi= shing=E2=80=9D event at the Kelly Writers House on April 12th, 2010. Including documentation of SanDisk 4GB, JBL Control Monitors, Sony ICD-UX70, Anchor ANX-70, Sony EVI-D70, Canon Pixma MP210, Mackie 1402-VLZ PRO 14-channel mixer. With lists and maps. In monochrome and polychrome versions. *Selected Essays About a Bibliography*. Essays on the expanded field of editing in a networked environment: bibliographic control, QR coding, font libraries, kanban, Facebook, blurb, metadata, PowerPoint, IBM Selectric II, pagination, bar code, and seminar. Event and online editors: E. Shaskan Bumas, Clare Churchouse, Kareem Estefan, J. Gordon Faylor, Kristen Gallagher, Diana Hamilton, Matthew Landis, Tan Lin, Katherine Elaine Sanders, Danny Snelson, Gordon Tapper, and Sara Wintz. Print editors: E. Shaskan Bumas, Kristen Gallagher, Tan Lin, and Danny Snelson. With contributions by Chris Alexander, Danielle Aubert, Lee Ann Brown, Marie Buck, E. Shaskan Bumas, Evelyn Chi=E2=80=99en, Cecilia Corrigan, Alejandro = Crawford, Kieran Daly, Kareem Estefan, J. Gordon Faylor, Al Filreis, Thomas Fink, Mashinka Firunts, Brad Flis, Peter W. Fong, Kristen Gallagher, Lawrence Giffin, Ellen Gruber Garvey, Cecilia Gronberg/Jonas (J) Magnusson, Heidi Brayman Hackel, Eddie Hopely, Josef Kaplan, Diana Kingsley, Matthew Landis, Juliette Lee, Tan Lin, Warren Liu, Dana Teen Lomax, Dan Machlin, Rachel Malik, Joe Milutis, Asher Penn, Ellen Quinn, Raphael Rubenstein, Katherine Sanders, Karen L. Schiff, Jeremy Sigler, Danny Snelson, Chris Sylvester, Gordon Tapper, Michelle Taransky, Jeremy JF Thompson, Richard Turnbull, Dan Visel, Andrew Weinstein, and Sara Wintz. *7CV Chinese Edition *(1-4) (=E4=B8=83=E5=8F=97=E6=8E=A7=E8=A9=9E=E8=A1=A8= =E5=92=8C2004=E5=B9=B4=E8=A8=83=E5=91=8A)* *translated by Chris Alexander, AMJ Crawford, and Cecilia Corrigan in Google Translate. Edition 1, in traditional Chinese without images. Edition 2, with images. Edition 3, in simplified Chinese with images. Edition 4, reverse translation from simplified Chinese into English. *7CV Critical Reader *edited by Mashinka Firunts and Danny Snelson with Chris Cuellar and event editors Eddie Hopely and Sueyeun Juliette Lee. A portable library featuring excerpts from texts related to 7CV, the Edit event, and online reading environments. The PDF version contains links to direct downloads of full books and articles referenced in the reader. all books available at Printed Matter and on lulu. We tried to make most of these books available as free pdf or at cost. Any profits generated from publications to be donated to the Emma Bee Bernstein AIR fund, the Leslie Scalapino Reed College Fund, the Asian American Writer's Workshop, Kundiman= , and Wikipedia. links: Bomb Magazine Interview w/ Katherine Sanders: http://bombsite.com/issues/999/articles/3467 Marketplace of Ideas radio broadcast w/ Colin Marshall: http://colinmarshall.libsyn.com/experimental_poet_tan_lin_ iTunes download (freeeeee): http://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-marketplace-of-ideas/id266539442 Art in America interview w/ Asher Penn: http://www.artinamericamagazine.com/news-opinion/conversations/2010-06-11/ tan-lin/ Thom Donovan's WIld Horses of Fire: http://whof.blogspot.com/2010/04/tan-li= n -metapoetic-extravaganza.html and a WIKI LINK to the Edit open publication platform: http://aphasic-letters.com/edit-wiki/index.php?title=3DNetwork_Publishing_w= ith_Tan_ Lin =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:36:15 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: amy king Subject: TONIGHT / FRIDAY -- Amy De'Ath, Octavio R. Gonzalez, Gordon Massman, Tracy O Connor, Joanna Ruocco, Kate Schapira & Dustin Williamson! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable STAIN OF POETRY A READING SERIES @ 7 P.M. JULY 30, FRIDAY ~ = =0A=0ASTAIN OF POETRY A READING SERIES @ 7 P.M.=0A=0A=0AJULY 30, FRIDAY ~ = AMY DE=E2=80=99ATH, OCTAVIO R. GONZALEZ, GORDON MASSMAN, TRACY O =0ACONNOR,= JOANNA RUOCCO, KATE SCHAPIRA & DUSTIN WILLIAMSON!=0A=0A=0ALISTENERS WILL R= ECEIVE ONE-OF-A-KIND HAND-PAINTED, HAND-MADE & SIGNED COPIES OF =0ASYLLABIC= VERSE BY BILL KNOTT.=0AFIRST TO COME, FIRST TO RECEIVE ONE OF THESE RARE B= OOKS!=0A=0A@ GOODBYE BLUE MONDAY =E2=80=93 BUSHWICK, BROOKLYN=0A=0AWITH=0A= =0AAMY DE=E2=80=99ATH studied American Literature with Creative Writing at = the University =0Aof East Anglia and at Temple University in Philadelphia. = Her poems have appeared =0A=0Ain ONEDIT, QUID and others. Crater Press rece= ntly published her broadside, =0AANDROMEDA, THE WORLD WORKS FOR ME. She has= two short books forthcoming in 2010. =0AHer first collection will be publi= shed by Salt, and a chapbook will be coming =0Aout from Oystercatcher later= in the year. Her poetry blog can be found =0AatWWW.AMYDEATH.WORDPRESS.COM.= =E2=80=9CAmy De=E2=80=99Ath is the new fire for mortals. She =0Apeoples sp= ace. She plays tricks with the gods and with her readers. This is =0Aperson= al, and it=E2=80=99s hot shit.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 Marcus Slease=0A~=0A=0A= =0AOCTAVIO GONZALEZ is a Dominican-American poet from Santo Domingo and Bro= oklyn, =0AN.Y. He teaches literature and composition at Rutgers University= , where he is a =0A=0Adoctoral student in English. Some of his work appears= online and in print, in =0APUERTO DEL SOL, OCHO, MIPOESIAS, and other jour= nals. His first chapbook, THE =0ABOOK OF OURS, has just been published by M= omotombo Press.=0A~=0A=0A=0AAttempting with the scientist=E2=80=99s objecti= vity, GORDON MASSMAN has numbered over =0Atwenty-one hundred slices of his = psyche in order to discover his most basic =0Aurges, motives, fears, addict= ions, and desires. He aspires to be the literary =0Ahuman genome project, a= nd in doing so, unearth as fearlessly as possible aspects =0A=0Anot only of= his own, but those of the universal male psychology. Tarpaulin Sky =0APres= s recently published his collection, THE ESSENTIAL NUMBERS. This summer =0A= Spork Press will release a chapbook of this work.=0A~=0A=0A=0ATRACI O CONNO= R=E2=80=99s first collection of fiction, RECIPES FOR ENDANGERED SPECIES, = =0Awas recently released by Tarpaulin Sky Press, and she has published fict= ions and =0A=0Apoems in various journals and magazines, including MID-AMERI= CAN REVIEW, =0AGARGOYLE, DIAGRAM, LIT MAGAZINE, THE PINCH, H_NGM_N, FOURTEE= N HILLS, MARGIE, =0AGREEN MOUNTAINS REVIEW, SIDEBROW, BARROWSTREET, CV2 and= POET LORE. Traci=E2=80=99s =0Acurrently at work on a collection of flash-m= emoirs about her Mormon childhood =0Acalled SHELL-SHAPED PIECES OF BONE and= a second collection of short stories. She =0A=0Ateaches writing and litera= ture at Guilford College in Greensboro, North Carolina =0A=0Awhere she live= s with her spouse=E2=80=94the writer, Jackson Connor=E2=80=94their four chi= ldren, =0Aone labradoodle, and a =E2=80=98cat.=E2=80=99=0A~=0A=0A=0AJOANNA = RUOCCO lives in Denver, Colorado. She is the author of a novel,THE =0AMOTHE= RING COVEN, published by Ellipsis Press, and a short story collection, =0AM= AN=E2=80=99S COMPANIONS, published by Tarpaulin Sky. She co-edits BIRKENSNA= KE, a =0Afiction journal, with Brian Conn.=0A~=0A=0A=0AKATE SCHAPIRA is the= author of TOWN (Factory School, Heretical Texts, 2010) and =0Aseveral chap= books from Flying Guillotine Press, Cy Gist Press, horse less press, =0A=0A= Rope-A-Dope Press and Portable Press at Yo-Yo Labs. She runs the Publicly = =0AComplex reading series in Providence, RI.=0A~=0A=0A=0ADUSTIN WILLIAMSON = is the author of OBSTRUCTED VIEW (Salacious Banter), EXHAUSTED =0A=0AGRUNTS= (Cannibal), and GORILLA DUST (Open 24 Hours). He publishes Rust Buckle =0A= Books, and is the current Monday night coordinator at the Poetry Project in= NYC.=0A=0AAT=0A=0AGOODBYE BLUE MONDAY=0A1087 BROADWAY=0A(CORNER OF DODWORT= H ST)=0ABROOKLYN, NY 11221-3013 (718) 453-6343=0AJ M Z TRAINS TO MYRTLE AVE= =0AOR J TRAIN TO KOSCIUSKO ST=0A~=0A=0AHosted by Amy King and Ana Bo=C5=BEi= =C4=8Devi=C4=87=0A=0Awww.stainofpoetry.com=0A=0A=0A********=0APoetry, Publi= shing, Women & the Internet =0A+ =0Ahttp://amyking.wordpress.com/2010/07/12= /your-own-revolution-poetry-publishing-the-internet/=0A =0A=0A=0APoets for = Living Waters=0A+ http://poetsgulfcoast.wordpress.com/ =0A********=0A=0A=0A= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 18:49:58 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Eleni Stecopoulos Subject: FW: This Sat 7/31 BAY AREA POETRY MARATHON (note: *not* at The Lab this time !) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: ddelaperriere@cca.edu Date: Tue=2C 27 Jul 2010 18:47:18 -0700 Subject: This Sat.: BAY AREA POETRY MARATHON (note: *not* at The Lab this = time !) To: ddelaperriere@cca.edu ******* BAY AREA POETRY MARATHON ******* This Saturday=2C July 31 at 7:00pm at THE CCA WRITERS=92 STUDIO195 De Haro St.=2C San Francisco(at the base of= Potrero Hill on the corner of 15th & De Haro) * MAP: http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=3DSan+Francisco&state=3DCA&addres= s=3D195+de+Haro+St&zipcode=3D94103-5121&country=3DUS&latitude=3D37.767483&l= ongitude=3D-122.401846&geocode=3DADDRESS * DIRECTIONS: If you are coming by subway=2C get off at the 16th and Missi= on station=2C then catch the #22 Bus heading east on 16th=3B get off as clo= se to 16th & De Haro as you can (which probably will be either 16th & Kansa= s or 17th & De Haro) & walk north to De Haro. If you are coming by car=2C p= arking is readily available & free near the Writers=92 Studio. READERS: * MELANIE FARLEY just wrote a long poem called dog breath etudes. It took a= long time. She lives in San Francisco and secretly (or not so secretly) li= stens to TLC=2C sometimes.=20 * DANA TEEN LOMAX's several books of poetry include Disclosure (forthcoming= from Black Radish). She is currently working on Shhh! Lullabies for a Tire= d Nation & the illustrated anthology Kindergarde: Avant-garde Poems=2C Play= s=2C Stories=2C & Songs for Children.=20 * CATHERINE MENG is the author of Tonight's the Night (Apostrophe Books 200= 7) & some chapbooks. She lives in Berkeley.=20 * ERIN MORRILL has mostly lived in the Bay Area since 2005. She & Andrew Ke= nower make chapbooks under the imprint Trafficker Press. She is a recent gr= aduate from CCA's MFA in writing program=2C & her recent work appeared in T= rickhouse (magically).=20 * PATRICIA POWELL is the author of the novels Me Dying Trial=2C A Small Gat= hering of Bones=2C The Pagoda=2C and most recently The Fullness of Everythi= ng. She teaches in the MFA program at Mills College in Oakland. * JAIME ROBLES=92s most recent book is Anime=2C Animus=2C Anima (Shearsman = 2010). Her poetry has been published in numerous magazines=2C including Con= junctions=2C First Intensity=2C New American Writing=2C ShadowTrain=2C and = Volt. * ELENI STECOPOULOS is the author of Armies of Compassion (Palm Press 2010)= . She is currently writing an interdisciplinary book on the poetics of heal= ing and a long poem titled Earth Also is a Private Language.=20 * JILL STENGEL is the founder of a+bend press and the author of numerous ch= apbooks & poems in journals. Her full-length collection is forthcoming soon= from Black Radish Books.=20 = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:05:56 -0600 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Scott Howard Subject: Call for Submissions: RECONFIGURATIONS / A Journal for Poetics & Poetry / Literature & Culture MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RECONFIGURATIONS=3A A Journal for Poetics =26 Poetry / Literature =26 Cu= lture = ISSN=3A 1938-3592 = http=3A//reconfigurations=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/ = Volume 4=3A Emergence = Submissions=3A April thru August=2C 2010 = Publication=3A November=2C 2010 = Guidelines=3A Volume four of Reconfigurations=2C http=3A//reconfiguratio= ns=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/=2C seeks a variety of works concerning emergence=97= that is=2C the phenomena of appearing =26 becoming=97across a wide range= of signification=3A matters aleatory or nascent=3B objects concealed or= manifest=3B actions impending or close-at-hand=3B communities indetermi= nate or realized=3B occurrences unforeseen or unexpected=2E Reconfigura= tions=2C ISSN=3A 1938-3592=2C is an electronic=2C peer-reviewed=2C inter= national=2C annual journal for poetics and poetry=2C creative and schola= rly writing=2C innovative and traditional concerns with literary arts an= d cultural studies=2E Reconfigurations publishes under a Creative Commo= ns 3=2E0 open-access license=2C is MLA indexed=2C EBSCO distributed and = independently managed=2E = Electronic Submissions=3A showard=40du=2Eedu = Submissions should be attached as a single =2Edoc=2C =2Ertf=2C or =2Etxt= file=2E Visuals should be attached individually as =2Ejpg=2C =2Egif or= =2Ebmp files=2E Please include the words =93Reconfigurations submissio= n=94 in the subject line of your message=2E = http=3A//reconfigurations=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/ = ISSN=3A 1938-3592 = RECONFIGURATIONS=3A A Journal for Poetics =26 Poetry / Literature =26 Cu= lture = /// =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 20:13:54 -0700 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > just going to chime in with my usual response to this statement that i > think he understood godel fine, o i think you're mistaken, jason, fer a change. the best thing i've read about godel/wittgenstein is by Rebecca Goldstein at http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/goldstein05/goldstein05_index.html . if you search it for wittgenstein, you'll come across this, for instance: "Wittgenstein never accepted Gödel's result; he said in The Foundations of Mathematics, posthumously published, that his task is not to discuss Gödel, but rather to bypass Gödel. He also called Gödel's results the tricks of a logical conjurer, logical artifices." but the whole above url is quite fascinating. strongly recommended! here is what godel said: "As far as my theorem about undecidable propositions is concerned, it is indeed clear ... that Wittgenstein did not understand it (or pretended not to understand it). He interprets it as a kind of logical paradox, while in fact it is just the opposite, namely a mathematical theorem within an absolutely uncontroversial part of mathematics (finitary number theory or combinatorics)". > i think he got the better of turing in their debates, i'm not familiar with any debates between them. sounds interesting. what documentation exists of these debates? > and that his view of what mathematics are is much closer to what's > probably right than Godel's weird platonism. the veracity of godel's results in mathematical logic do not depend on his "weird platonism" at all, of course, as i expect you fully understand. godel's platonism got weird toward the end of his life. godel starved himself to death out of paranoia about his food being poisoned. he suffered from mental issues toward the end of his life. his extreme platonism is associated with his period of decline, not his earlier, more robust period, when he published his famous results. the poor guy went off his rocker, finally. wittgenstein was a terrific poet mistaken for a logician by some. i am partial to such poets. ja http://vispo.com july 29 2010 ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 11:23:29 -0400 Reply-To: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" In-Reply-To: <254744.83352.qm@web180204.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I was basically saying what David was saying. I was surprise myself; but, as I said, found it realistic on the part of language school poets, if true. David can answer your question better. Ciao, Murat On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 12:08 PM, Mark Prejsnar wrote: > "> the trajectory of Grenier , his works, for some long time black listed > by > > his former colleagues in the 'Language-centered" writing "community"-- " > > > > this is indeed a fascinating claim ... blacklisted just how? details ???? > > > > > > > > > --mark > > > > "Roads > of excess were roads not taken, and that > has made all the difference." > > > > --Jerome McGann > > > --- On Wed, 7/28/10, Jason Quackenbush wrote: > > From: Jason Quackenbush > Subject: Re: "The Decay of Spirituality in Poetry" > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Wednesday, July 28, 2010, 10:13 PM > > marvelous david, thanks so much. there's a lot to chew on here, but I > wanted to remark that for me at least, I think both the connection with > Stein's early poetry so heavily laden with parataxis as it was and with > Whitmans continual revision as a connection to refiguring the notion of the > book, resonate with the sort of mysticism that I think i see in Grenier, > something akin to text as process rather than product. > > this, in my thinking at least, connects up with a rather fruitless > obsessive period i spent shortly after the publication of the complete Ted > Berrigan trying to find correspondences to Alfred North Whitehead's process > philosophy in his various mundane occasional poems (by which i mean the > often repeated trope in his poetry of picking a day or a set of activities > and memorializing them in a poem eg today in ann arbor, 10 things i do every > day, memorial day, etc.). At the end of my researches which didn't bear much > out, after I got over my disappointment in discovering the great organizing > principle I thought i'd discovered in fact was my own misreading of > Whitehead, i realized i'd been looking very much at the wrong thing and that > the real process philosophy stuff had to do more with the way he was > compasing things than with any underlying metaphysics. > > anyway, Berrigan also is a favorite spiritual master of mine, and what > you're talking about in Grenier I think I see a bit in some of Berrigan as > well. > > > > On Jul 27, 2010, at 9:40 PM, David Chirot wrote: > > > a little side note: (re Grenier/Trakl/Wittgenstein) > > > > Robert Grenier early in his writing life translated a few (four or more) > > poems of Trakl's for an anthology-- > > > > Grenier has by some been considered as a mystic; by far his greatest > > philosophical interest/influence is Heidegger-- > > > > In "I HATE SPEECH"--One might consider the context, the time period-- > > > > on the one hand, the speech driven poetics of Projective Verse and many > > aspectsof Black Mountain, of the new York School-- > > as well as it being a time period swamped in SPEECHES-- > > coming from al directions and all media-- > > > > living and teaching in Franconia, NH, Grenier, while doing his daily > running > > as well as sitting and listeing intently for hours to the sound of water > > dripping in a cistern--and to recordings of Pygmy music & sounds-- > > > > one finds Grenier developing his ear ever more acutely attuned to the > > smallest particles of both speech as SOUND and as sign-- > > the variety of ways in which for years his works have been > > published/presented, with an emphasis on the physical/visual/sonic > structure > > literally and literarily of the Book-- > > taking it apart, putting it back togther in another from--whether as huge > > poster as la M'ASS AVE or box as in SENTENCES and also the three parts > > black box encased series of visual/verbl poems put out by by O Books > > ("Minnestoa" etc--)-- > > and the varying sizes and shapes of other tests-- > > culminating in the huge serial works done in "lawyer's office "color > > markers-- > > > > in a Talk given at the Robert frost Room at Franconia--published in the > late > > 90's--(forgive mne for a moment here the editor/publisher escapes > me--wil > > come back: Stephen Dignazio--)-- > > > > Grenier notes that an interesting question to investigate is the > conjunction > > between among, "only the imagination is real" of WCW's Spring and All and > > the "no ideas but in things/Mr" of Paterson-- > > > > to think on /with these as a both/and rather than the usual "either/or"-- > > > > to find ways in which there is an identification of the word and thing, > then > > the letter and thing--so that the forming of a letter itself handwritten > in > > time--is an emergence/appearance of sound & image simulateneously--at the > > same time as they are both physical things in action-- > > > > Olson wanted the citizen to go faster, faster--so that one thing follows > on > > another--the action of the poem essaying to "pull even, " equal, that is, > to > > the real itself"--with the action-- > > > > no more of the Aristotelian "after the fact" of writing following the > > action, behind it-- > > > > but--drawing even, so that action/writing take place as nearly as > possible > > simultaenously-- > > > > Rimbaud already in the "Lettres du voyant" to Demeny and izambard in > > 1870--had written of the poetry of the Future "preceding the action" > > > > which i have written on as being carried out literally/literarily by > Rimbaud > > in that his writings precede in their descriptions, images, words--the > > actions which he began to live out after he stopped writing-- > > > > how many of his letters when no longer a poet carry the very images he > has > > written of years earlier as Poetry & Prose Poetry----and now writes > simply > > as bald description factual documents-- > > > > Rimbaud also wrote of the poet of the Future (also greatly effected by > the > > total ful emancipation of Women)--as being "not unlike the Greek"-- > > one notes in Grenier's studies of Heidegger the many essays re Greek > thought > > and poetry -- > > > > the trajectory of Grenier , his works, for some long time black listed by > > his former colleagues in the 'Language-centered" writing "community"-- > > > > has been one of far more radically "outside" work & life than those of > his > > peers, in formal and philosophical, sonic/visual/visceral work-- > > > > Grenier's long involvements with the texts of the early Stein (which he > was > > teaching at Franconia--as the "Yale Stein" became available)--as well as > his > > studies singly, as teacher and in a reading group including Leslie > > Scalapino--in Whitman--the versionsof Leaves of Grass culminating esp in > The > > Deathbed Edition--link him with the early modernism of WCW and the early > > Stein--as wel as the 19th century Whitman--whose work was not a "once and > > for all " "set in stone" text but an ongoing series of versions, > > alterations, rearrangements, additions, subtractions, changes in names, > > spellings, grammar, syntax-- > > > > (SERIES after al is the title of a Grenier book)-- > > > > i wd agree with many that MOBY DICK is a postmodernist so to speak text > > --and i wd include the work of E A Poe as well-- > > > > D H Lawrence in his STUDIES IN CLASSIC AMERICAN LITERATURE (which > pre-dates > > WCW's In the American Grain)--notes a number of times that the Americans > > have relegated their classic works, in the "old American art speech"--to > the > > nursery--"adventure stories, : :detective tales," science-fictions > stories," > > etc etc--the Classic American texts dealt with issues, ideas, images, > which > > the 20th century American, according to Lawrence, has to banish--to the > > nursery!-- > > > > "the pure products of America go crazy" as WCW noted-- > > > > "out there"--("the figure of Outward")--though, one might say, is the as > yet > > hidden in plain site/sight/cite "classic american" outsider/avant-garde > > postmodern etc-- > > > > ("where the 'outyard" is the 'backyard' to paraphrase from Grenier's > little > > work on Narrative for the old Olson series--) > > > > "The blank and ruin we see in Nature may be within our own eye"--(R W > > Emerson) > > "The most beautiful world is a heap of rubble tossed down in confusion/at > > random"--Heraclitus > > > > "To shut the eyes is travel"--Emily Dickinson > > "My voice goes after/what my eyes can't reach"--Walter Whitman > > > > "Writing is time travel"--W S Burroughs > > "It is a science-fiction film set in the past"--Federico Fellini, on his > > SATYRICON- > > > > ================================== > > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check > guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > > ================================== > The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines > & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html > ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 23:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: az421@FreeNet.Carleton.CA Sender: "Poetics List (UPenn, UB)" From: Rob McLennan Subject: new(ish) on rob's clever blog -- 12 or 20 questions: with Gabriella Goliger -- 2 new above/ground press chapbooks: Marilyn Irwin + rob mclennan -- rob mclennan reads Tuesday, August 10th at the ART BAR, Toronto -- 12 or 20 (small press) questions: Brian Clements on Firewheel Editions / sentence magazine -- Mark Goldstein's Tracelanguage: A Shared Breath -- 12 or 20 questions: with Nikki Reimer -- Dorothea Lasky, Black Life -- photo at the carleton tavern, parkdale market, ottawa -- Ongoing notes: mid-July, 2010; -- hinge, a BOAS anthology -- Mammoth, Larissa Andrusyshyn -- 12 or 20 (small press) questions: Edward Smallfield on Apogee Press -- from Barcelona, a novel-in-progress; -- 12 or 20 questions: with Robert Earl Stewart -- 12 or 20 questions: with Jessica Smith -- (another) very short story; -- 12 or 20 questions: with Sasha Fletcher -- Ongoing notes: the ottawa small press book fair, spring 2010; -- today is jwcurry's birthday -- 12 or 20 questions: with Dorothea Lasky -- Robin Blaser, by Stan Persky and Brian Fawcett -- 12 or 20 questions: Sarah Selecky -- Jandak photography: how this photo came to be -- Ongoing notes: the Toronto Small Press Fair, spring 2010 -- Notes on writing, writing www.robmclennan.blogspot.com + some other new things at ottawa poetry newsletter www.ottawapoetry.blogspot.com + some other new things at the Chaudiere Booksblog www.chaudierebooks.blogspot.com -- writer/editor/publisher ...STANZAS mag, above/ground press & Chaudiere Books (www.chaudierebooks.com) ...coord.,SPAN-O + ottawa small press fair ...poetry - wild horses (U of Alberta) ...2nd novel - missing persons www.abovegroundpress.blogspot.com * http://robmclennan.blogspot.com/ ================================== The Poetics List is moderated & does not accept all posts. Check guidelines & sub/unsub info: http://epc.buffalo.edu/poetics/welcome.html